Banning Christian Media: Next Week with Jeff Durbin

The Need for God’s Compulsion in a Broken World

Time to pray. What do you tell a mother who just lost a son to the barrel of another man's gun. How do you tell his son his dad's never coming back? This is the position we're living. We'll put you at.

Why do we want all things clean? They lost kids house spouse pawn diamond ring. Now tell me do you really have the answer when someone's in your face ask somebody got cancer. How do you deal with the dilemmas in religion trying to consider both theirs and your feelings.

Who's really right who's really wrong. Him but what authority you even stand on. What can you say to the oppress in the ghettos in the depress in the suburb meadows? Listen up. I got something to tell you nothing makes sense.

Unless God compels you. Let's make America great again. We've been a dump. They dumped in hundreds of years of slavery. I'm on my Jeff socialism is theft. We crazy. I won't apologize. Why I apologize not built by human hands with the Ecclesia.

You don't know about the Alpha and Omega boy I wrote with Luke Marcus about a joy and the love that we got for each other. I have many brothers and we ain't undercover like that. KKK. What you looking at?

Who's the plane Republicans and Democrats? What the answer's that? Why do morals matter if we just go to plaza? Accidents make sense. I'm on that sarcasm. Listen up. I got something to tell you nothing makes sense.

Unless Christ compels you. Yeah, I met someone who told me nothing had meaning so I asked did you mean that and who's the one deceiving? They killing babies before they could even cry. I guess they plan for parenthood to just die when Houston was underwater.

Cali was on fire if we only started us then why do we all bother. Tell me why if it wasn't for the straight you Wouldn't have a game cuz if the whole world was gay, how do we procreate? Should we all die because the fantasies or should we practice doers that will autonomy?

So if I want to kill anybody for any reason you shouldn't judge. I'm just doing what's pleasing heavy belief system. It's about works, but I rest in Christ. Therefore there is works. Listen up I got something to tell you nothing makes sense.

Unless the spirit compels you. Otherwise, you can't make sense of nothing. Fear the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

His death burial resurrection in Ascension. Thank you next week at Jeff Durbin. I am Jeff Durbin.

Opening Banter and Show Introduction

Glad you guys joined us for the show today. Please go like and share and let everyone know about the episode. Go to apology of studios .com for more content there. I'm Jeff and that's Luke the bear right there.

What up? What's up, man? This is right. This is just you and me on the show. It's all that's left. It's the first time we've done it next week with just you and I that's right. What are we gonna do today?

All right, hi talk about things. Welcome to next week. What what is what is happening right now. We have a very special episode today. Yes, we have Ivy Connerly in the studio. Doing stuff from his album, which is don't just talk.

Listen, don't just listen. Don't just listen. Yep. Talk no. Don't just listen. That's it. That's it. Don't just look. Okay. Don't just listen. Yeah. Okay, and what's the okay?

I'll let you go. Oh, yeah. So yeah, it's named his album. Okay. Okay, great. He's been on tour a lot lately. Actually has he. It's cool to get him back in here with the hog mob the hog mom.

He's mobbing. That's right was mobbing. Yeah, I know what that's like. I'm doing that all the time. Yeah, you're always mom. I'm always steady mobbing. Yeah. What's that mean? I don't know. Okay, I heard that somewhere in some song.

Yeah. Okay. Anyways.

Christian Media, Worldviews, and the Quality of Art

What are we talking about today? Okay, so I figured since we have IV on talking about or doing his music and you know Talk about art and Christian media and making it good to the glory of God, right? So I happen to just see this article on BuzzFeed and It's titled what happens when Christian movies go mainstream.

I was actually pretty interesting article. They're horrible. Yes, so there's there's specifically two two quotes. I want to focus on The second one we'll get into that. But the first quote Which I thought was interesting.

It said it's gotten harder to make the case that Hollywood is Hostile toward Christianity or at least it's gotten harder to claim that what's Being argued over here is really faith. Rather than conservative Christian values, which are at least as much Cultural and political as they are religious.

So this is BuzzFeed talking about You know Christian values and how they're cultural and political.

So that was really interesting. I was like, what do you think they're getting at with that. What I.

Don't know. I didn't get I didn't honestly I didn't follow the point. They were trying to make but I thought was interesting just because what we would say that well. This culture used to be. Right, you know used to used to value right in conservative values.

Yeah, and in politics as well and You know now now we're just You know vestiges really of what used to be yeah.

So anyways, I just thought that was interesting. Well, it's interesting point two because what dr. White said on last week's episode of next week Was even old Writers who were not Christian that created good Narratives and stories and everything had to essentially borrow capital from the Christian worldview to make their stories good.

Like that's how entrenched the Christian worldview was in every aspect of society if you're gonna write a good story. Even if somebody was not professing Christian. They were so used to the right Christian worldview and and as the foundation really I've ever the even ethical systems and all that stuff.

You had to borrow capital from the Christian worldview to write a good story. Because there had to be actually a thing called good and evil there had to be a flow to history and a telos a goal. This is what we're all going towards and so stories had to make sense like that to a Christian culture and a predominantly Christian audience and now we have An abandonment of the Christian worldview and in every area of life that possible there's a forceful pushing out of the Christian worldview in every area of life, whether it's education on any level or politics or Media, I mean just think in terms of social media today.

Even social media today is essentially pushing anybody out of The conversation that holds to a perspective a worldview that is explicitly Christian, right? So if you say that there's a pure or holy or legitimate harmonious sexuality Between only a man and a woman if you say that you can be essentially derided for hate speech.

You can get in trouble for hate speech today. If you say that men are awful wicked sinners and rebels against a holy god, you can have your sermon taken off. Yeah Facebook, right? I mean so like that the conversation is being controlled now, but like in terms of Christian media, it's interesting because When you look at like popular Christian films that come out today.

That come out to the theaters. They're not even good. No, they're not well done. They're not well written. They're very poorly acted and I think we can all say that as it's almost like it's becomes like a sin in Christian communities at times to say that was a really horrible movie.

Like the acting was horrible like you hate God if you say right the script just because it's Christian doesn't mean I have to like It yeah, like it's not wasn't good, right? But I think a lot of times when we have like a film that's a Christian film that does well in the theaters whether it's God's Not Dead or Unplanned or whatever the film may be it does well in the theaters.

I Personally and I'm willing to be wrong. I don't know everything. I'm not the supreme authority on this but it's just my feeling like how come a really terribly done film. In every respect script acting storyline.

Just you name it. It's just poorly done. It's just not good. How come it can do so well in the theaters? I think it's because Christians often think like it's our duty as Christians. To pay for this film to go to this film and to support it because it's Christian, right?

Right what I think that we didn't used to think that way like we're the ones that gave the world the best art. Exactly, like it was an atheism that built the the great monuments to beauty and architecture.

Artistry all that it wasn't atheism didn't develop that the Christian worldview made those things because we have a world view that make can make sense of beauty and. And art and goodness and and all those things and like doing things to the glory of God doing things that last and then are meaningful.

Atheism doesn't develop those things, right? We built those things right and they remain in history as beautiful monuments because Christianity gave the world those things, right? But now we suck at art like now.

Now we're terrible and now what's amazing is the secularists the humanists have co-opted our beautiful Strategy of beautifying the world and and cultivating God's garden and doing amazing things and growing this thing up into awesome stuff.

They've co-opted it and they're using it, but they're using it in a perverse way exactly. They distort it like dr. White said in last episode like if they're gonna do if they're gonna do a film series.

This is what makes it horrible the cinematography is better exactly in Christian films. There's more money spent this better acting. Yeah, the acting you like, you know. It's just it's so much more well done in terms of of the visual but in substance.

It's corrupt. Yeah, and horrible. It doesn't even tell a good story. Ultimately, it doesn't have like good foundations and in order to make it something that's appealing. You have to sell flesh exactly.

So it's all sex and it's nudity and everything why because I need that shocking moment like to really enjoy this film. That's an hour and a half or out of 45 minutes long. I've got to have at least one or two moments of like a of an appeal to my flesh where I go.

Oh, that was so good, right because it was nudity or a sex like that. We're gonna sell it like that because why because you can't just have a good story. That's fundamentally good. But so so unbelieving art art and film goes one direction in terms of its better cinematography.

They have more concern that it looks visually stunning and beautiful that the acting is actually Quality good acting that draws somebody into catharsis where you're into the story like all they couldn't they're concerned with that.

But they're but their foundation is horrible like the what comes out of their mouths is not horrible the story. They're trying to tell to get to the end goal. You go none of that is good right like the ethical system underneath what you just try to promote.

Was not good because all storytelling is supposed to is supposed to project meaning, right? It's supposed to influence you in some way like if you read the Chronicles of Narnia. It's it's amazing writing.

It's an amazing character. It draws you into the story. You just you've 45 minutes later. You're reading going. Oh, I'm I didn't I forgot I was in my bedroom like I was I was in that world. But you get to the end of the story and you learn something the author was trying to project something on to you you should adopt my view of reality, so all stories are trying to do that and the unbelievers try to project a Reality upon you to adopt.

That's not a good one, and we should all reject, but hey I'd rather watch that in terms of cinematography and art artistry. Because we go over to the Christian film and while it might have a better moral foundation everything else around it.

They almost like act like it doesn't matter that it's aesthetically pleasing. It doesn't matter that the that the are the artists who are doing the acting are good at their acting job. Or or anything like that so like it's almost like I can agree with everything in the Christian film that it needs to be heard.

And adopted, but can you give me something that actually glorifies God right in terms of beauty like when if you look at a night sky in Arizona. That God does that every night and gives the most banging amazing sunset amazing sunset every night.

And and he it's it's effortless for God. He spoke it into existence, and it just carries along all the time in the most beautiful artistry when you and I Went to go out shooting recently in the desert remember that it was incredible.

We're in the middle of desert and the sun's going down you had to stop and just watch. Because it was insanely glorious, and that's for God is just like nothing. He just speaks it into existence, and that's our creator.

We're his image in the world. We shouldn't create bad art because God is not a bad artist. He's not a poor artist. So why are we emulating the creator and his artistry in a way that actually? Disfigures it and actually bring shame to him as an artist because we're his image.

We're supposed to be the they were supposed to be the artists in the world. Why are we doing such bad art like that should matter to Christians? Yeah, it's not just a foundational story that should be moral.

I agree with all that in Christian film, but I dare you to do this. I dare you to take two to take two devices and a one device get a subscription to Netflix. And then the other device get a subscription to pure flicks.

And Here's the thing I'm not asking you to go to go watch the sinful stuff on Netflix. Yeah, yeah, but just watch the stuff. That's just the general stuff. That's on on Netflix and just just watch it and look at the difference between the artistry and the dedication to to the actual Form and believable yes, and then I and then I dare you to try to stay on pure flicks for more than 30 days without canceling your subscription.

Because it's horrible. Yeah, it's all bad. And then what we've learned is that people that do stay on pure flicks. Are the old people that don't really watch it anyways. Or and how many times have we run into this?

Somebody that's on pure flicks for like like say six months or a year. And you'll ask that you watch anything on there and like nah not really but like they feel like they're doing their duty. Yeah, like they're tithing to pure flicks.

Yeah, right like why are you why are you supporting your flex supporting Jesus? I want to support Jesus and the gospel and like it's like. But it's really terrible right so this guy comes up to me the conference last week.

And he's like hey your ministries really blessed me. He was mentioning you and just all that God has done to really encourage him and to give him a solid foundation. He said you guys have really inspired me to become a director, and I said great a Film director.

He says yeah like I want to direct films I said so you just want to be a director of films right and make good movies like yeah I said not a Christian director right he said no no no no I just want to I want to make good movies.

I said good now of course we want them to be movies that glorify God and are Substant in their substance Christian with a Christian worldview, but just because. Just because you're a Christian, and you want to make film doesn't mean you have to make Christian films that go on pure flicks.

Why don't you make? Christian films that go on Netflix and that unbelievers go hey, did you see that movie? Right that was awesome. Yeah. Like what we should be creating the stories and the films and the artistry that they build.

Conventions around like why aren't people going to wear our costumes for our stories and our characters, right? Like how come how come it's the unbelievers now that are owning all of that the stories that everyone wants to be in.

Where where the Christians now are making the stories that people only want to donate to. Right so sorry that that was my rant. Yeah, I was gonna say like like Darren like a friend Darren Doan.

He's that's what he does. You know we had a series on was it on Amazon. It was on Prime. Amazon Prime.

It was amazing. And what was the break. A short break. Yes, you should check it out. Go check out short break. So yeah, yeah, well, and I think.

Going all back to what dr. White said even I think there's an argument to be made that good stories When it comes to movies can't be good unless they borrow from the Christian world yes. You know like I'm even thinking like I don't know if it's too soon to give out spoilers for in-game.

Right, but there was a spoiler alert. Don't don't cry. There was a definite Messianic theme an in-game that was amazing, but where did they get that from yeah Christianity, right? And so so yeah, I mean if in order.

So what like dr. White said when they stop using Good themes from Christianity, then they have to resort to the garbage. Yeah, the shock the perverse. Yeah, shock value, and so you know one thing we've learned to from from people that are in the industry and know is that Big name companies like Sony for example will pay Christians to make these Christian films, and they'll pay them well because they know that they're going to Make a ton of money on them because Christians will donate yeah in the bin and the budgets aren't that big and these Christian films.

But they know there's a huge Profit margin in those films, which is terrible so that brings me into the the next clip quote then so it's It says faith-based films provide the sense of being safe for their audience.

They're clean and family-friendly in their context and Unchallenging this is where it gets crazy. They're unchallenging in their storytelling and feel good in their arcs their qualities seem largely incidental.

To many of the people who seek them out and critical derision may only make audiences embrace them more. What matters is that they confirm the beliefs in the worldview of their viewership there you go?

Critical derision will only make people want to view them more. What's that mean? What are they saying there? It sounds like they're saying that Christians Who have these films go to the theater and all the Christians are going to see them when people are critical of the film like?

It's just a poorly made film. It's a bad story bad acting. It's just a terrible terrible film that Christians will feel like they're being persecuted for righteousness sake yeah. Yeah, when in reality you may not be being persecuted for righteousness.

They say it's just bad. You're being persecuted. This is terrible artistry, right? Is there righteousness right just righteousness snake. It's been a long day. So that's interesting know that even even Unbelievers will see that yeah like if you if you say this is a bad film the Christians are gonna respond with everybody.

Let's all hashtag it and go see the film. Right and you're on your phone the whole time because it's such a terrible film. It's terrible. You're at least there for the popcorn. Yeah, true, and that's about it, and it's expensive popcorn.

Christian Hip-Hop, Storytelling, and Leading the Arts Well

Yeah, so what I have appreciated I think you and I when we first started really hanging out You and I had like a huge hip-hop Christian hip-hop and rap sort of phase and the reason why I think is because you and I were doing all that at a time where Christian hip-hop artists were actually making some really good excellent hip-hop.

Lyrically yeah, they were very very good with their doing and it was quality. It was actually higher quality than the secular hip-hop and rap that was out. Yeah, and that's why we appreciated it so much but it was only I think it was a good experience for that for us because it was after a time period where Christians were Trying to get into the rap game, and they were just really bad at it.

They were making bad stuff like the DC talk nobody would want to listen to it at all. No one want to listen to it, but actually starting into the point where people were actually trying to follow. Like the Christian hip-hop artists that they're making better stuff.

They're making really good stuff, so you have artists like Lecrae. Yeah, he was better than Better than all the secular artists like lyrically his skills and all that stuff. And so that's why people were so impressed with him because Lecrae didn't get so popular and really break out of the Christian Section of it like as an act of their grace going okay.

We'll let you over like people recognized. He's good. Yeah. Like when he was on sway in the morning sway in the morning is one of the biggest Shows that and and everyone wants to be on that show if you're anybody that's in anybody who was inspiring hip-hop artist.

Or you're just the dominant person in the hip-hop industry. You you're supposed to be on sway in the morning well when Lecrae was on sway in the morning sway was out of his mind. Yeah, impressed with the craze that he's like he's like you're what this was supposed to be about and here's a Christian artist in this Rap game that is doing better than anybody else.

He was just good. No matter what you think about Lecrae now and like some of the things he said and done in terms of like Christian commitments right let's be honest like that's a good example of like how Christians should lead an industry.

If Christians get into the rap game. They should be the best in the rap game if they get into rock they should be the best in rock. And they should just make great stuff if they're in the film industry.

This should be the leaders there everyone says. This is what this industry is supposed to be about and the point is from my perspective. It's not about the person. It's about God being glorified and of course the influence you can have there in that that whole genre you can have the godly Influence there where now the people who are making perverse content in the hip-hop industry or in the film industry or television.

The people are making perverse content. Recognized now they're in the back, and they're like we better start making content. That's like that that tells those kinds of stories, or we're not gonna have any money anymore, right?

So it should be Christians that actually lead and say no you tell these kinds of stories. You have this kind of language you have these foundations, and you do it with this kind of skill. We should lead everywhere right for the glory of God.

Honest Storytelling and the Example of Scripture

Yeah, that's why one reason why I like Ivy so much you guys here is some of the stuff. He's I think he's he's a good storyteller, and he's very raw about the stuff. You know he grew up hard life in the hood and and he but he tells it from a Christian worldview to the glory of God.

Right right so he can tell a Raw story about what's what it's like growing up in the streets and seeing you know Dudes get their heads blown off, and you know selling drugs and all that stuff. But like he can do it in a way that glorifies God.

Yeah, and that's what we need is more of that. So you can you can? You can be real with people. And but you can do it in a way that glorifies God. You don't have to be vile right to tell a real story.

Well, that's maybe we should end on this on this point. I think that's a really good point you're making right there. Is that I think a lot of times Christians are afraid to tell hard stories. Right because they think Christians or people are too sensitive.

Yeah, well the failure of that is that it's not honest exactly you're not you're not being honest. You're not telling the truth, or you're not actually pricking an image bearer of God where they need to be pricked like here's I'm saying when Christians create a film or a television show or music, and they're not honest I'm not saying be vile.

But if they're not honest about like hard how hard life is how sad it is if you don't tell like a true story. About the way things are if you don't do that then people don't believe you right. And I would just challenge people at this if you're an artist and you're in a particular particular field.

And you're trying to tell good stories whether it's music whether it's film if that's where you're at I would just say read the Bible like that's God's Story of history and there's a lot of ugliness in it.

Yeah, right. There's a lot of ugliness and there's a lot of honesty in it and in that you don't chastise God. Forgive me for even suggesting such a thing, but you don't chastise God because in his story of history He tells all the truth about certain elements of history whether it's adultery whether it's murder.

Whether it's about a father getting drunk and sleeping with his daughters,. And you just mentioned all of the Sunday School Bible heroes. Exactly. Yeah, right.

And you've got even God in the book of Isaiah talking about his bride in some pretty graphic terms using words like prostitute Harlot whore like God tells the truth when he tells a story, but he's not vile because he has a point.

He has a he has something he wants you to know something. That's true about it. It's a serrated edge. He wants you to change your mind about it. He's not saying here's the ugly thing. It's good accept it.

Just that's the way that it is and I glorify it. He's saying here's the ugly thing look How ugly believe how ugly this is and now watch what I do with it, and that's what storytellers should do. So I'm saying is tell stories like God.

Yeah have integrity tell the truth and make it awesome. Amen. And speaking of that we have Ivy Connerly so before we get to that guys. This is next week with Jeff Durbin. That's Luke the bear. I'm Jeff Durbin make sure you guys go to end abortion now calm and abortion now calm to get linked up with the over 400 churches across the United States of America that are saving children right now.

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Thank you.