Wes Huff Comments on Amman Hallman's Recent Outburst

Well greetings and welcome to the dividing line we are coming from the big studio because we've got a big guest and I'm not going to ask what his current bench max is but We've got a big guest on today to talk about something.

That should be absolutely fascinating to almost everybody in the audience because most of our audience is made up of Geeks and people who like to talk about textual criticism and weird stuff like that We're not looking for the big audience

We're looking for the weird audience and we definitely have the corner on that one anyways Now coming to us from north of the border, which

I'm be honest with you I'm a little bit surprised that you still have the freedom to do this. Are you?

You know, do you use like like VPN so they don't know where you are. You're actually in Ghana or something like that West Huff is with us for a while today on the program and is it cooling down yet out there?

It is but not by much. It's been pretty mild up here in in Toronto But so we've we've lucked out at the temperature dropped a little bit there

But I was just in New Zealand last week two weeks ago And it was quite a bit colder there than it is in Toronto But they're heading into their summer and we're heading into our winter

So it won't be that temperature switch won't be there for long. I Remember traveling the world like you are right now

I'm sorry for all of the experience you have to have with TSA and the lines and You know, we

I had all the access clear and global access and all that stuff up until the end of 2019 and then the world changed and So I'm just in my little

RV and haven't been touched by a TSA agent since 2019 It's a it's a good feeling.

It really really is but you're getting to do all the fun stuff out there and I will mention When you sort of blew up the

Joe Rogan program That's when we first started to chat afterwards

I could have seen you if I'd gone with Jeff Durbin up to the Ezra Institute thing

Well, that was like I think I was 2018 or 2019 somewhere around in that neck of the woods but didn't get a chance to do that and so If anyone's wondering so why didn't you have

Wes on after that? The reason as you'll testify was I knew you were too busy to begin with it would happen eventually and My I was actually concerned

You've got so much stuff going on You're a dad and you've got little ones and you're working on your

PhD and you're involved in the church And I'm sitting back going Man, that's a lot.

That is a lot and everybody in their second cousin was trying to Get you know, you're you're diminishing amount of time

At that particular point in time. So I was like, hey just stay strong, man Well, we'll eventually hook up and be able to do something and I'm not sure.

This is the most exciting topic necessarily to have drawn us together but Has have things maybe slowed down just a little bit for you since since Rogan No Not really

But you know what? I have a great support system and I'm plugged in as much as I can be with my local church

So I think you know, God has been very gracious to me with all of the opportunities But I'm I'm actually not looking for any exposure.

So it's really easy to say no It's funny sometimes when you get asked to do there's some particularly large

Podcast that I've just said like thank you, but no thank you and you can kind of tell they're not used to people turning them down Because they go well, what do you mean?

This is this is gonna be great exposure for you and I kind of think like Yeah, people are recognizing me in public now and I don't really want that to happen any more than it already is

So I'm like, I'll just stay and you know, I'll take a few opportunities here and there

But I'm I'm under no illusion that I should be saying yes to Too many things

I have like you said, I got four kids. My youngest is only three months old And so it's um, yeah life is full and By God's grace.

I don't need to make it any more complicated than it already is My youngest grandson

Kuiper is about three months as well. So you're heading into teething and further sleep deprivation and all that fun fun stuff, so enjoy that because they

They grow up so fast. It is truly astonishing and you find yourself Uh Missing the sleepless nights.

You don't during the time. I understand that I I do recall that but you you will eventually

Miss all that that fun stuff. So You're working on you're continuing to work on on your your doctorate.

You've got your work to be doing in that area, but What brings us well actually you contacted me and I had mentioned that I Felt it would be appropriate to comment on Knowles did a segment on his program that included you and Included a man by the name of Amin Tillman.

Dr. Amin Tillman and For people who don't remember this

Believe me. I actually have people in my audience that would definitely remember when we had this discussion in October of last year

I had to go back and listen to it to refresh my memory of some of this stuff But last year at this time while I was on the road

Jeff Durbin sent me two clips from Amin Tillman on the Danny Jones show and I listened while I was while I was driving and Had not finished listening to both clips when

I did the first program somewhere in Louisiana and then

I listened to the second clip before the second program we did and the second clip was a whole lot worse than the first one and Just a

I Think it would be worthwhile Before we start talking about this

Wes. Let me let me just play a couple and I only have the audio here So we'll still be on the screen and This will be our first test of my playing something and making sure it all works

But I said something about Amin Tillman on this program that I've never said about anybody else

It's not that I haven't addressed The demonic realm in the past.

It's not a big emphasis here But I had never before said about a living person that I believe this person is demonized but I did in this situation and I did because at the end of the

Danny Jones show After talking about all sorts of spiritual experiences enough drugs to I mean,

I'll be honest with you He talks about drugs. I've never even heard of You know, I'm a boomer so, you know,

I had acquaintances in high school that were potheads, but that was about as far as that went and So he knows about drugs that I've never even heard of and don't want to find out about either and so all this pharmakia stuff

And then once I found out what he was actually claiming about Jesus Which I don't know we're gonna get into but it's

In my opinion the vilest stuff I've ever heard the nastiest most amazing

Evil to be uttered about About Jesus is uttered by this man

But when we he we got to the end of the program He said that his purpose was to free the world from mythology of Christ of Christianity He cut tied this into being the

Antichrist and To free man so that he man can be the ultimate authority and I mean this is this is exactly what

The Antichrist would be all about to begin with and so this is this is what I this is what I said at that time what he expressed as his ultimate goal is

The denigration of Jesus Christ and the exaltation of mankind to the ultimate position of authority

That is Antichrist That's what the Antichrist is he's denying the

Christ has come to flesh Jesus is no divine person. He was an evil evil vile person and Mankind is the measure of all things.

That's Antichrist He's fulfilling the prophecy Now I've never said this about anyone on this program to my knowledge

And I did not look up the stuff to see if maybe I have and I just didn't know about having listened to three and a half hours of This individual blabbering on this program and Wandering all over the planet.

I believe And I'm not recommending that you watch it. I told you it is Oppressive It is spiritually oppressive and I believe it's spiritually oppressive because I believe

Ammon Hillman is demonized I see no other explanation so that's what

I said and Like I said, I'd never make made that comment about anybody before so when

I see Knowles a clip that says that you

What was the terminology that they used here West Hof West Hof causes a demon to show itself

I'm like, all right. What is West doing now? I mean and and doing it remotely even that's that's a that's quite a trick

Do you pulled off here? Give us the background here. You were telling us before we got on the air you had

Pride probably within a month of when I made my comments you had been on a program

And had been asked about the same stuff. Is that is that where this all started? Yeah, so I was invited on the

Julian Dory podcast. Julian is a friend of Danny's Julian is out in New York.

And so over a year ago now, I actually last October I believe it was I know is previous to that.

It might have been September. I flew down to New York and I hopped on Julian's podcast and we talked about all sorts of things we you know addressed all the typical stuff about the

Bible and the Council of Nicaea and translations and He's not a believer

But you know We had a fascinating and I think very productive conversation in terms of dispelling a lot of those myths about that kind of stuff

His one of his media managers is a Christian guy and so invited me on to talk about this and in the course of the conversation

I had made a an Instagram reel which addressed a clip from the

Danny Jones podcast where Ammon was talking about the origin of the word

Christ and that via his expertise in Classical medical texts, you know, there's this usage of it right creo being you know to anoint

Being related to applying drugs to eyes and that being actually what Christ means and that Jesus was actually a drug pusher and all of these things and so I just make this quick video like now

This is the etymological fallacy. It doesn't work like that. This is applying really broad definitions to very specific things and So that's what

I talked about in the reel and then that's what my friend

Julian brought up and then Eventually Ammon goes back on the

Danny Jones podcast and what you saw which is what Michael Knowles also saw and then put out was

Was Danny Jones bringing up my clip on Julian Dory to Ammon and then Ammon responding to it and then

Michael Knowles Responding to the response of the original video. So, you know multiple levels, but that's what it is

It's it's me doing a response video and then commenting on one podcast and then the person who was involved in the original video from the response commenting and You can kind of see what what's being alluded to by by Knowles is that Ammon has a very visceral response

To me simply saying you should apply basic exegesis and hermeneutics when you're reading ancient texts and Ammon, you know writhes

In discomfort at such a statement. Yeah. Yeah, we'll take it. We'll take a look at it. But but before we before we do that I found it encouraging

Because when I I listened to some of the stuff that you were saying You focused in on the exact same stuff that we did and we didn't have any connection about this

I mean I was listening to it. You're listening to it. We're both going. Whoa This guy for example does not believe that the

Hebrew of the Old Testament is the original that the Septuagint is actually the original and the

Hebrew is a Translation from the Septuagint. I'm just like and he's he's sitting there going.

Well, yeah I mean you just got to read the Septuagint and you can just it just it's clear

It's it just gives lots of evidence that it's the it's the original I'm like Has he ever?

You know, I immediately thought of it's it's weird I started following on Twitter X a

Mormon recently just one and now my entire feed is filled with Modern Mormonism, which believe me is massively different than the

Mormonism. I started dealing with back in 1980s, but anyways, um, I Text from First Nephi chapter 11, and I saw it last night.

I was at dinner with a friend and This was actually very encouraging to me because it's been many many many many many years since I've read

About the variations and the changes in the in the Book of Mormon but I remembered that this text they had quoted had was changed by by Joseph Smith and It originally said the

Everlasting God now says the son of the Everlasting God and So I had just quickly tapped out a response

Should we be reading the 1830 or the 1837 version of this particular text and then? Sent it and went back to having dinner with my friend

Someone's response and you'll get this immediately someone's response was is that any different than?

Jeremiah 31 in Hebrews 8 and And You and I both know what that is

I mean I when I preach through Hebrews the the poor people who have me as a pastor Have to learn textual criticism along the way because there is a key textual critical variant in Hebrews chapter 8 the writer of the

Hebrews follows the Septuagint and It's the difference between even though I was a husband to you or Even though I did not care for you now those are two different statements and For me anyways, and you can comment on this if you'd like for me

If I'm preaching through Hebrews, I did 82 84 sermons through Hebrews something like that I I Can't let my audience if it's my church.

It's my people if I'm in somebody else's church I'm not going to do this, obviously, but in my church,

I don't want them looking back at Jeremiah 31 and Seeing though I was a husband to them and then they look at Hebrews and though I did not care for them and I didn't cover it because they're gonna know that I knew it was there in the first place and so You cover it you talk about it and that makes some people uncomfortable

I understand that but we live in a day where that discomfort just simply has to be weighed against the necessity of knowing that this stuff exists and So a

Mormon threw that back at me in defense of the change in verse 25 chapter 11 and Of course, my response was are you considering that a parallel?

It's the same person made the change in the Book of Mormon But the point is that as you know, the difference in the

Hebrew is between Baal husband to you and Gaal to despise and Bet and Gimel You know similar forms of a letter it's not identical obviously but similar forms of letters

But that's where the variant came from the Septuagint is is is giving evidence of the fact that there was a difference in the

Proto -Masoretic Hebrew texts and that particular Yeah The the

Septuagint for people that aren't familiar with this it wasn't just done at one time you know the the letter says that it was and well actually the letter says that the

Torah initially the Pentateuch was but The story that Christians believed for years and years and years was these 70 or 72 scholars go into the caves

They did the translation come out there word for word the same Which would clearly have to be divine providence and inspiration so on so forth and the

Septuagint was the the the Bible of the early church but that's not how it happened and the translation is a varying levels of quality depending on where you are in the

Tanakh and so there the Septuagint is giving clear evidence of Being a translation of the

Hebrew and Amun himself admits he doesn't read Hebrew and doesn't think you need to Oh No, and I think it was pretty apparent when he makes some of these comments and I mean

Additionally to that like Amun denies to gentle scholarship in general. So like if I'm sitting there and I'm Referencing Gregory Lanier or like William Ross or Timothy Matthew law?

That's irrelevant to him because he doesn't think that that's an actual field and discipline. He thinks that these are made -up categories and Only he's the one who's aware of what's actually going on So he's not interested and this is part of the issue with even having a conversation with someone like this.

You can't start on even ground if they don't know Hebrew and they're making pretty overt statements about you know,

Hebrew being far more of a Simple language and in Greek is a complicated language and that's obviously how languages go from one to the other right?

So you wouldn't translate Hebrew into Greek because Greek is so complicated you go the other way around like these aren't very good arguments to begin with but then to deny the entire field of Individuals who are the people who you should be interacting with if you want to make that thesis if you want to say

That the Septuagint was the original Hebrew Bible, I don't even know if that that term would make any sense.

Do you think Greek is original? But if you just deny the scholarship exists or is legitimate then that's kind of an easy trump card on your behalf

Because you can just at that point just deny deny deny. So that's the issue you run in with a guy like Ammon Well, and he's obviously not even trying to function within scholarship.

He's not he's not even he's left that field a long time ago I was just stunned at his

Classicist was the only people who know anything Any New Testament scholarship

Old Testament Scott, it's all irrelevant If you're unless you're a classicist and he seems to be the only one

That you know, there's almost nobody else he showed almost any respect for whatsoever

So he's not trying to interact but When he's on podcasts like that People that are interviewing him

Danny Jones in in the first interview that I listened to Just sat there going.

Wow, that's heavy. You know, I it was clear He just didn't have any idea where this guy was coming from had no way of pushing back it did see me push back some on the on the second interview, but He gets away with this kind of stuff because it's just pure.

I don't know He's sitting there in a short -sleeved shirt, and he's got Greek all over his arms So I guess that means you you automatically know what you're talking about,

I suppose But but I even said in my program I said you could never debate a man like this and I wanted to ask you

I Almost forgotten he when we're I'm gonna play the clip here in a second, but he even says no wonder he wouldn't face me

He said that about you what what do you know what he's referring to there? I mean

Danny reached out to me a couple times to come in and interact with Amin I mean it was at the height of the craziness.

It was during a period of time when I was receiving Debate you know invitations on a weekly basis, and I'm just I mean

I arguably it's one debate with Billy Carson that kind of launched everything, but I'm not typically a debater

That's not necessarily what I do on a regular basis, and you know at the time my wife was on modified bedrest

We there were complications with her pregnancy and there was there was so much going on that I said like hey

Danny You know maybe one day down the road. I might come on your podcast, but like this this is not the time so Amin takes those kinds of Those kinds of responses as these people are running scared of me

He doesn't factor in that you know maybe other people have lives and that those also factor into the grand scheme of things, but even just looking at a little bit of what you know

Amin his his own programs on his YouTube channel Lady Babylon 666 and kind of the antics that he goes through on a regular basis and Some of the stuff that he's published.

It's just I don't I don't think there's room for interaction And he takes he thinks that everybody's running scared of him because he's such a genius

I think the the hard pill to swallow for guys like Danny Jones which I think he will wake up to one day is that the reason people keep turning down an invitation to interact with Amin is because I'm in simply not worth their time he he he the way he conducts himself is just not something that people are going to be open to interact with and That's gonna be a deterrent

That's good That's a deterrent for me because I'm just I don't have the time of day to commit to something like and he's referencing

Classical texts here and there and he's changing the subject and he's all over the place. He's not a linear thinker and You can't you can't interact

Logically with someone who does not have a linear thought pattern who thinks they're a genius who thinks they're the only one who can interpret

Greek who You know, I I think it was it when Dan McClellan was on Danny Jones, he he mentioned

B dag, you know the the lexicon and a little bit later on Amin Reviewed that and said, you know, that's just for Christian texts.

That doesn't matter. There's they're not real Anyways, they would just reinterpret everything they want. So right

He won't recognize a lexicon So what am I supposed to do if he's gonna you know deny that the lexicon

I'm using is even a lexicon worth using So right, right. Yeah, and that's what I said. And by the way, they reached out to me too and I was like That's a long drive

That's a really really a long guy that what do you mean long guy? Well, that's how I travel now And so that and then someone within the past two months rich forwarded me an email and I don't remember who it was

But was in the last two months was saying someone really needs to debate this man, and I I didn't respond to the email

But I did in my mind Which when you get old is half the battle, okay, you know

And in fact once you get old you go did I write that or did I just think that I can't remember now But the thought my thought response was the amount of time

You would have to invest to deal with the wide and often

Disconnected sources that this man throws together would be astonishing

I mean you would literally have to dedicate yourself to that for a very lengthy period of time and You've got your

PhD work I I have a project that I really am becoming very convicted about it's been 11 years since I wrote a book now and There's a there's a subject that would be really really helpful and it's right down my alley.

I need to get it done So I'm sitting here going is It is that even worth it? And then the same thing you saw

I Cannot see him doing a 20 -minute opening statement that anyone would be able to understand.

I Just I can't see how he can organize thoughts Because in three and a half hours on Danny Jones I don't know that he went more than 90 seconds on any one topic before he was off on some other topic that was not

Even remotely connected to it. So I think most people just be sitting there going. What was that all about?

I don't get any of that So yeah We came to the same conclusions on that but yes

The number of people who would say everyone's running scared from me Does the name

Gail Rippling or mean anything to you? Yeah, I have unfortunately I have her book up on my shelf right there

I have a KJV only allotted section in in my in on the top of my bookshelf and yes,

I do have a Very marked up for research purposes copy of Gail Rippling errs

New Age Bible versions. Did you ever hear the one time? She exposed herself to having somebody oppose her

Yes, okay. So as you know, that was me and That's where we learned about acrostic algebra

That the Lord calls the New American Standard Bible the NAS V not the NAS B stuff like that in Some ways honestly

Gail would be a little bit easier to deal with an almond Despite how way out in the woods she is

I think it would actually be a little bit easier to deal with her than with With almond Hillman.

So with that said I think Everybody needs to know what we're talking about now, by the way did

Have you talked to Danny about this at all because I'm trying to figure out the candles What what was it?

It's dramatic effect. Is that all it was? Yeah. Yeah He's he's playing up that he knows that ominous thinks of himself as this kind of Satanic mystic kind of guy it's it's it's drama

Well, okay that And I'm trying to Did you see the like the napkin type things next to him and stuff?

I mean the whole thing looked like it was just I Wasn't sure what in the world was going on there, but it is it is interesting and you can see at the beginning here

I'm not sure if you if can you see the opening here? West that you you're a freeze -frame.

There's there's his arm there Cosmo Crotor Right is visible there and we were talking about that before the program started and That's found in the

New Testament Worldly powers plural, but that's one worldly ruler basically

Right on his forearm there. So he's got some really interesting stuff there I like I said a freeze -frame of his arms would would provide some interesting translational work.

I would imagine But so as I said, the only way I could come up with this was to play knowl stuff

So he'll pop up once a while. Hope he doesn't mind because of the fact that it's a family oriented show and I I Don't have all the technical stuff to go bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep that he has.

So Let's let's watch Wes Hough cause a demon

As I come out of this fellow actually, he's just I think demonstrating that again a debate would never ever work

So let's uh, let's see what's going on here. Here we go Colonel Throne as the second person of the

Trinity stepping into humanity and But if you were to say to someone after this if someone said like hey you you met

Wes Hough How was he and you went eyes love a condescending? You wouldn't be talking about my humility No, right because that word has a different meaning in its different context and part of the problem with something like what

Amman says is that he's taking terminology that exists within the parameters of a

Specific field and then he's applying them in areas where there's an entirely different contextual

Meaning and A Spectrum of understanding it's a let me just freeze this just for a moment

Wes one of the most useful books That my

Greek professor had me read in third year was Moises Silva's biblical words and their meanings lexical semantics and I mean,

I was I'm so old. That was a fairly new book at that time that gives you an idea But that understanding of semantic range in lexicography and the meaning of words,

I don't get the feeling that Amman has a clue What that's all about doesn't care about that.

But let's be honest it I think one of the one of the weakest areas of Evangelical preaching and teaching when the language is brought up is

Recognizing how context is King even in Determining the meaning of words as they're being used in the

New Testament or or in early Christian literature anything like that at all Would you agree? Oh, yeah, totally

I mean, this is the so the example to give context to what people are listening to is I'm explaining to Julian Dory who's asking me about this and I'm using an example of saying okay like words mean what they mean within their context so in a theological conversation

Condescension the condescension of Christ means the coming down, right? It has this kind of connotation of both his incarnation but an aspects of humility

And so then I say like but if I was talking to you and you said oh, well West was really Condescending right that has a completely different meaning within just common parlance

And so I'm saying like words mean what they mean when we use them properly and so that's not going to Work if you're gonna take one word and then apply it just broadly over everything, right?

You don't paint the Sistine Chapel with a with a roller. That's not gonna work. It's not gonna get you, you know

Michelangelo's intricacy on the roof of the the chapel So but that's what

Amman largely does and and he wants to take a word like Christ and he wants to apply it you know in this one usage that he's found where it has to do with a

Drug application to a particular eye issue And then say well now that that means that all of the time every time

I see it including Christian literature now Forget the fact that you know, you have in John them saying, you know

That Jesus is the Christ which means the Messiah Forget verses like that that that doesn't mean anything to us

We're going to broadly apply all of these terms and so that's what I'm explaining to Julian which is being played by By Danny to Amman so the context is actually that exactly what you're saying in terms of semantic range

There is a semantic range, but we don't just do the kind of amplified Bible thing and say well you know here are all the ways that this word could be used and That's okay, that's great but what ways it used in this particular sentence because that matters and the way you get there is by reading the actual context of What's on the page in front of you?

That's that's what's what I'm explaining so very much related to what you're saying in terms of When we're trying to understand these things like basic learning of not just Greek or Hebrew, but any language semantics and the semantic range and Contextual application those are all going to be key so that you're you're aware of what's going

It's kind of I don't know if you if you watch like movies and stuff And there's an archaeologist and they're in some like tomb and there's some inscription on the wall and the archaeologist goes up to it

And they're like sight translating and like it says We need to open the door on the left

You know in reality if someone who's actually involved in ancient languages they'll be like it says we need to open the door or the sky or The ocean or the you know because you know depending if you only have one line

You kind of have to use the semantic range which always makes me laugh when you know you're watching the kind of Indiana Jones S shows and they know exactly what it says, and that's how they can write in the the the crypt

It never works that well no Limited amount except you and I both know that if if they actually translated correctly would slow the movie down so much

It would be seven hours and 47 minutes long, and we never make to the theater So we'll have further reason to mention this because when

Amin starts responding to you He throws out a New Testament reference against you which illustrates exactly what we just said

But I think I think people in the audience need to understand because this is a place where People aren't involved in apologetics or or doing

New Testament stuff struggle West just mentioned

Allowing the New Testament to define the parameters for defining for example Messiah gotta understand something in a lot of scholarship

There is no New Testament context They believe the New Testament to be to be contradictory to itself it isn't consistent with itself

And so there is a lot of scholarship that will go no you you you know You can look at how

John uses a term in the gospel But you can't then go look at Revelation because we're not sure

John wrote that and it may have been Totally different context and so we can't let those two things come together and most people who are in good solid churches that's what their preachers are doing all the time and So they just automatically assume that's what everybody does but that's not the case and That's something that I think brings confusion to folks and it's helpful to help to explain it

But we'll see that in just a moment. So let's let's go back to This is sort of weird. This is you a different webcast on a second webcast on a third webcast now on the fourth webcast

I mean, you know Spurgeon never had to worry about any of this stuff It's just pretty straightforward back then

Some people jumped on was that he he says that the word Christ comes from the

Greek word creo, which it does right to anoint and in ancient

Greek medical texts there is a usage of that which he has

Capitalized on with applying drugs to your eyes now more broadly creo does mean to rub

Particularly a liquid ointment or substance on your body There's two sort of terms that are used specifically within biblical studies

But this applies to anything within the ancient world where we're trying to come up with Translations in deriving meaning the first is there's a there's a discipline called hermeneutics and hermeneutics is this interpretation methodology of interpretation that we use on a particular text before hermeneutics is

Exegesis and Exegesis is a Greek word that literally means to bring out right the opposite would be is a

Jesus to read into Something and you're looking at an ancient language.

Okay. This is where you know knows you can see look on his face here and everybody is like This is not how most rational people

Respond to anybody saying anything. I mean you're not saying anything weird. I Mean, let's be honest for a lot of folks who've never done languages for a monolingual person.

It's never even given consideration Yeah, okay exegesis hermeneutics is a Jesus. Okay, there's some technical terminology here, but you're explaining what it means

But he looks like he's in pain. I mean, I mean he's he's grabbing his like he's got a headache and and he's rocking back and forth and this is

I think what a lot of people are sort of like This is weird, I when you first saw it, what was your reaction to his physical manifestation,

I Mean, unfortunately, I I had seen From his own YouTube program that he does this is kind of par for the course for him

Okay, he does this kind of rocking moving around he doesn't really stay in one place and I Mean I I don't know what that is.

I don't know if it's a physical thing. I don't know if it's you know induced by chemical substances that he may or may not have taken

I But this this is kind of how he acts on a regular basis. He is not

I wouldn't describe him as stationary Well, yeah, you know I saw that in the original Danny Jones when

I when I saw the clips that yeah He's he's moving around. He's not stationary, but it's almost like You are causing him pain

Because you're not agreeing with him. That was that was first thing. I saw was

You know when you hear someone saying something you're either gonna have to respond to it disagrees to your thesis something like that for me when

I hear that I Get more focused because I'm thinking about how to best respond to what that person's saying

He's doing just the opposite. It's like I don't want to hear any more of this shut it off This hurts, you know this kind of stuff.

It's just there's not anything rational going on here at all And I think a lot of people just catch that doesn't make him wrong but what it does make a lot of us go there's something beyond just the

Discussion of hermeneutics and and I was in a second here Danny Jones is gonna say

What he's gonna say you don't believe in hermeneutics or something something along like that and I like I said earlier

I don't think he knew what hermeneutics was before The first time so I think he has been listening and that's an encouraging thing to me.

Anyways That someone might be catching a that but alright, he's gonna get even and when and folks when you hear it

Blink out that's because it's been edited for Family -friendly

Viewing you're trying to get at the author's intention by no different levels of contextual application

He's pulling the demon You're trying to get to the intention of the author no, you're not

Okay, so you're not trying to get to the intention of the author Okay, stop stop stop stop stop and Danny goes what's wrong with hermeneutics

Real basic question How do you respond to someone who says hey the the intention of the author doesn't matter

I mean you can't not really it's it's not a proactive conversation at that point and and that's what

I mean like you can only go so far in these types of conversations if you're not starting on any type of Agreed -upon ground if we can't agree that the language is even saying what the language is saying then

I mean Where where where are the where's the connective tissue? I don't know so and and this is what everybody because I know like you've been approached.

I've been approached I know probably about five other people who are in kind of this space who study biblical languages or teach

New Testament or Old Testament or That kind of thing that that have been reached out to to interact with with Ammon and and everybody is taking a even just a cursory glance at this kind of stuff and said

I'm That's not worth my time I'm not gonna travel to take time out of my schedule where I'm you know fill in the blank teaching marking

Spending time with my family. It's it's just not in the in the list of Productive things this is not up there you know 30 years ago.

No one probably would have ever heard of this fellow We are

I'm so thankful this Sunday night at church this fellow came up to me after the service and he gave me this real nice gift bag and He was visiting from Madrid Spain and Their church there has been deeply influenced and encouraged by Apologia Church and by Alpha Omega Ministries and I Thought at the time

What a day we live in I? Mean just think just think of the audience.

You've been able to reach in your young life That Generations before you never would have even

Thought of being able to have any influence on people literally across the world and yet That's what the internet has brought to us but it's also brought this to us a

The reason that he has an audience the reason he has a YouTube channel the reason that there's people interested in this kind of stuff is there's a lot of people who want a reason to disbelieve and And This is the kind of stuff that people put out there so, you know, the printing press was invented

It was called the tool of Satan and everything else and there wouldn't have been a Reformation without the printing press but at the same time there's been lots of stuff produced on a printing press that You know, it's extremely negative

So that's that's we have to live in the world that Lord has called us to live in But it is it is interesting that I just don't think that a lot of this stuff would ever get anywhere

You know, it would be in a little cult, you know in a little town someplace wherever he lives,

I'm not sure where it is, but it wouldn't be it wouldn't be getting global views and The trick for us and the trick is going to be more for you

I'm I'm the old guy that you know On my way out you're the next actually you're sort of a generation

Beyond that the second generation. You're young enough to be Got a lot a lot of time in front of you.

You're gonna have challenges that I can't even begin to imagine AI How you're gonna interact with that kind of stuff

The idolatry I think that will eventually So and I'm already seeing coming from people that kind of stuff as huge challenges and Is AI useful?

obviously Can AI be made dangerous obviously

Do I have answers as to how to You know when people ask what should how should ministers be using these tools in their preparation?

That's not something we didn't have a class on that when I was in seminary And I'm not sure if there any classes on it now to be honest with you

The church is normally behind the curve on that kind of stuff but still

You're gonna have some super challenges and Whether you like it or not

Because of the opportunities already been given to you They're gonna be people asking you those questions you may sit back and go could you could you give me a break and Let me have some more experience before I even try to tackle some of that stuff, but it's gonna be coming your direction

It really really really is and watching this kind of stuff. I imagine all you can see right now is almond

Sorry about that. I can see you just fine and everybody else can see me talking to you, but I like this view

Yeah, oh you can't oh Well, so he can see this one here rich No, rich is doing a pretty good job of switching them back and forth, so I'm not okay.

All right Let's finish up this clip. So so everybody knows everything we were talking about you're reading an ancient language

I'm in you're pulling out a specific context in Galen's medical text I'm trying to apply it to everything across the board.

Here's which isn't which is Intellectually dishonest. Here's the problem. I'm not pulling it out of Galen.

Does Galen have it? Yes Euripides Has it?

He gets a sex drug That is a Christ one of the characters ass.

Is it a Christ? This is not from the medical. This is from everything everything

Wes Huff you fake Well, it's though. It's what the devil gives you man.

It's what the devil gives you look, okay No, wait a minute, but okay, it's what the devil gives you it's what the devil gives you man so Danny Jones has just said the right thing.

I mean that was a thousand very very good reputation You're taking one thing and it's intellectually dishonest.

He's exactly right bing bing bing Give the man a donut and his response is the devil gives you everything

I I can can you see something there? I can't see or is this just incoherent?

I Mean it's it's once again like this is kind of a normal conversation At least from what

I've seen with Ammon like it's it's bouncing around He he doesn't really stay on topic for very long and then he throws statements like that out.

I don't know where they come from but Yeah, it's odd.

It's odd to say the least You you have a gift of understatement at that point

I think most people sitting there looking at him going the devil gives you everything is gonna go yeah,

I think that's not an answer to what he just said and Maybe it came from someplace.

You don't want to tell us about pumped up in his pride. He thinks he's something now Because he slaughtered somebody who was making stuff up.

Well, guess what? This is the gymnasium of the cosmos, baby Right, you'll be taken down you'll be taken down by somebody who knows

Wow, I'm really okay. So The gymnasium of the cosmos.

Well, so you now I know you work out but I do you work out cosmically? Not that I'm aware of but maybe

I'm missing something Yeah Yeah, that that was a little bit of a threat

I think there in some sense He's gonna he's gonna take you down But What did when you first heard that did you just you chuckled there did you just chuckle when you heard that or or what?

Yeah, yeah, you just got to this there's no I mean I don't think it's necessarily something

I'll give Danny Jones credit Danny invests a lot into his podcast.

I think he's a serious individual in terms of building his own brand and making it Engaging for people but I I honestly

I don't think people like Amin are worth the time of day You have a friend who likes to say sometimes there there's a necessity to take out the trash and I think that's true

I mean every once in a while you have to deal with people who are just saying things and they have a large audience and They're influencing people

Negatively, but I think a fair -minded person is gonna look at Amin and they're gonna go

I don't know about this like this doesn't make any sense. It's it's not linear It's not logical and they're gonna dismiss it.

We can't we can't account for everybody who who is following him But you know, this isn't just people like you and I James like this is people across the board in terms of Skeptics atheists liberals who have come out and said like this guy's out to lunch.

He doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah So it's it's Amin against the world It really really is if he's denying that New Testament scholarships have to a gentle scholarship are even valid disciplines

Then you know, what are you gonna do with that there are more proactive people to engage with who are

Misleading people now the reason I did the Billy Carson conversation originally was because Dozens and dozens of people are sending me

Billy Carson clips And so there was a necessity there, right, you know, sometimes you just need to deal with the silliness but I think

Amin is on a Kind of a next level of that. Yeah, he's on it. He's definitely on the next level and Anybody who called that conversation you had with Billy a debate doesn't know what a debate is obviously clearly

That was I mean, how long did he last before he left? I Mean to give him the benefit of the doubt

He said he had about an hour and I think he stayed for about an hour and 15 minutes Okay. All right, but I think

I think he probably wanted to leave a Lot earlier than that in the course of the conversation

Testament to the you know his reaction afterwards. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was pretty amazing

I can only liken it. Did you ever see my debate with father Peter Stravinsky's on purgatory? 2001

I I did watch those to be dead the the great the great debate series. Yes back in the day Yeah, yeah,

I did. I I don't know if I can Remember exactly the one with Peter Stravinsky's, but I know he was the one he was the one who during the audience questions

Somebody said so can I just give money? To get out of purgatory and he said pay me an hour pay me later

Yeah, and the the cross -examination with him on 1st Corinthians chapter 3

Is the first thing that comes up in Google when you search on his name and he's still very angry about that to this day

But that that's that was someone who Wanted out of there an hour and a half before he was actually able to get out of there

And I think that's the same thing you had that in that situation But yeah, someone as popular as that Yeah, sometimes you have to deal with things.

You don't want to really have to deal with or you know, we can correct things gives us opportunity of Talking about the textual history.

I don't know if you know, but We did do a apologia radio thing on the

Isaiah scroll and some of the variants That were thrown at you afterwards just simply because there was so much stuff being thrown out

I don't know how you got any sleep during that period of time and everything else, too So yeah, but that gave us opportunity to talk about a lot of positive things

So you you try to you try to make things work out that way But no,

I I Do think that people like this get away with what they get away with because the church in general is

Afraid to talk about a lot of historical issues in regards to the origins compilation and translation of the

Bible in my experience for many decades now Well, I taught textual criticism in Kiev Ukraine a number of years ago

And I had a an older pastor come up to me after the program after the class and he said, you know,

I Thank you very very much. I understand what you said. It encourages my faith.

He says but you need to understand something. I Could never present this to my people. I Can never present it to my people

They there's just they don't they don't have the background at all And I think a lot of folks even in the

United States I understand his situation he's in Have you done much over in Russia at all? No, nothing.

I do actually have a friend Timothy Mitchell who is out there teaching at a seminary And he actually has that PhD from Birmingham in textual criticism

And so if if there is somebody in you know at that end of the world

There is actually an individual with a PhD in the area who is currently teaching at a seminary Well, yeah, but I I'm sure there are but the reason

I asked is and This astonished me I've only been

I've only taught in Russia once a place called Samara. It was in January is 28 degrees below zero

You're from Toronto. So you probably go. Ah, no big deal from somebody from Arizona 28 degrees below zero is like being on in Star Wars and that you know, the

Empire Strikes Back. What's that Hoth? Was that what it was called something like that? Anyway And look

I saw those movies in the theaters, dude, you know when they first came out So so you got to got to respect your elders anyways

When I was teaching in Samara I was trying to show the students evidence That the

New Testament writers identified Jesus as Yahweh Did you know that in the Russian Synodal Bible, which is almost the only translation they have

They do not in any way indicate the presence of the Tetragrammaton in the translation

There's nothing there. They cannot see any Reference the Tetragrammaton in the

Old Testament at all So I'm sitting here looking at these texts and they're all looking at me like I just landed from another planet

Until my translator Nick who's just a brilliant guy Explained to me. There's nothing in the in the

Russian Bible that indicates this kind of stuff. And so there are There are times when the context you just don't you aren't aware of the fact that man

It could really be tough for people to follow some of the arguments that we just sort of assume Everybody would be able to know

That was just an illustration of overseas that that really really struck me But anyways look we're out of time

You have little children and you have dinner and you have a wife and I appreciate you're wanting to get to Do all those things and help the help the little lady with the kids and she's appreciative of that We are appreciative of your taking this time

Was there anything when you saw that I was going to talk about this? Was there anything you wanted to add real quickly?

That you haven't gotten to yet No, not necessarily if I can encourage you in that I think the tides are turning in terms of church awareness of things like text criticism

I'm more and more encouraged by the fact that I'm getting more and more invites from Churches and Christian groups who are hungry for this stuff

They really want to dig into it and they want me to talk on things like Where did the Canon come from and what do we do with textual variants and how do we interact with you know?

The original languages so I think we're entering into an age where you know There's this proliferation of information and I think people are realizing.

Okay. Well, I don't always know what a reliable source is But I I want to find the answers to these questions

I don't want to farm it out to Wikipedia or something like that, which you know and in an age of growing growing and growing skepticism right the the authorities and the people who

For a long time were just assumed to be the people that had the answers That's not necessarily the case anymore.

We can't necessarily trust everybody who claims to be an authority Governmentally or in you know this field or that field or so I think

I'm more and more encouraged as time goes on whether it's you know Guys like Joe Rogan or Andrew Schultz, you know secular comedians were asking me questions

About I talked about the Septuagint and the Reformation on on Andrew Schultz's flagrant podcast

Which is a you know, popular secular podcast who would have thought that kind of thing, you know

George Carlin was not calling FF Bruce These were not things that were happening so we doing a little ancient history there how us going back to my days

Like like we do I I'm I'm encouraged by the things that are happening And if I can do a shameless plug because you mentioned the whole like trickiness of technology and AI The organization

I'm the vice president for apologetics Canada in November We're actually doing a conference on the theology of technology here in Ontario So if people are interested in getting, you know, some of those areas and you know, how do we interact with this stuff?

I'm doing a little kind of presentation on how Christians have dealt with developments in technology Over the last 2 ,000 years and talking about the development of the codex and the printing press and the radio and all those things and so if People are you know in the northern

United States or in in my neck of the woods in Canada, Ontario and Quebec We're running that conference

November 8th. I believe it is It's a Saturday theology of technology because we want to tackle some of these issues that you know are important stuff

Relevant. Yeah, and actually next year's conference of that one Is on history and we're having

John Meade and a Peter Gurry out. Oh, yeah I'm gonna bring them up and we're gonna talk about some more

Bible issues because that's do some do some CBGM Yeah, that's right. Ask Peter about our

CBGM Mexican lunches And in fact over your right shoulder is a nice little p52 obviously and Up there above though,

I'm trying to I can't necessarily identify Well, it looks like p45 right above.

Oh, no. No, no peace. No. No, no, no, it's p p6. Nope p46

So yeah, so that's yep. Yep. That's p46 and then above that is p1

Okay. All right. Okay as part of my doctoral research. I had a Very a fun opportunity to go to the

Univent University of Pennsylvania and work with the actual manuscript So I sat beside p1 and I had my own piece of papyri which

I brought back with me from Egypt and I sketched out on the papyri next to the original autograph not proper term used and Then I I copied that transcribed the text on both sides and I I cut it out with a with a

What are you using in medical stuff, what's that called? It's a scalpel so I created my own facsimile beside the real

McCoy and That that's become a little bit of a hobby for me in terms of working with some of these texts

Yeah, so yeah, I've the only only one I've held it was down at Macquarie State University Which interestingly enough is divided between Macquarie State and someplace in Italy They can't they can't agree to put the poor thing back together again at one place and then

I did get to have you ever sat in the reading room at Trinity in Ireland the

Trinity that incredible Trinity reading room with The text that forced

Erasmus to insert the Kami Ohanian into his third edition. No, I haven't.

Yeah Got to got to pull that out and and see it and read it and do stuff like that But you're getting to do a whole lot more stuff like that than then than I ever did.

So I do have yes Yes, 1522. Yep Erasmus's and I believe the

Kami Ohanian. I've marked it out in here because this is the first one that had it and I did a paper on it once and I remember yeah right there as a sticky note and You know there

But what's interesting is that is not the same reading that's found in that manuscript that forced him to insert it

That's one of the interesting things about it. He ended up taking it from the more popular version of it and The annotations on that text if you have if you have

Erasmus's annotations Explodes with his whole discussion why he does not feel that it's original but no one reads

Erasmus's annotations anymore. So at least not King James only guys, but anyway, all right. Hey, it's time for dinner

It's time for the kids. Thank you Wes for taking the time to be with us It's been a blast all the geeks in the audience are just about to explode

So we need to you know, help them calm down now and stuff like that So enjoy your p52 your kids and we'll talk with you again in the future

That's great, it's been a pleasure God bless Wes, thank you All right Excellent If there's some way to chat and let him know we're gonna close up the close -up shop here

Actually, we went over time. Anyways, so hey, thanks for watching the program today guys We will see you next time on the dividing line and it won't be quite as interesting a subject, but you never know