Interview with Ken Smith (Part 1)

Welcome to Have You Not Read, a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification of the saints. Before we dig into our topic, we humbly ask you to rate, review, and share the podcast.

Thank you. Welcome to Have You Not Read. I'm Michael Durham and with me are David Kassin, Ken Smith. Tonight we have a special treat as we have an opportunity to interview one of our elders here at Sunnyside who was a Christian Heritage Academy.

And David, you had a great idea to interview Ken about what he does at CHA, the subject matter that he teaches, and why it's important for the youth of this era. So David, take it away. Well I have been.

Asking Ken to come on the podcast for a while. And as you know, he is busy here at Sunnyside, busy at CHA. He is a husband, father, grandfather, has a very robust schedule as well, but I was glad to finally get him here in the studio because this is a topic, especially as a father myself and as every man in this room is, we worry about our kids, sending them out into the world.

What you are doing at CHA with your kids is incredibly important, and I thought that it's something that we could share with other parents. So if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about yourself.

Ken Smith's Teaching Role and Curriculum at Christian Heritage Academy

You say you teach Bible apologetics and worldview at the high school level. Yes, so I teach 11th and 12th grade Bible. 11th grade is Christian worldview, so we look at biblical worldview, Christian worldview, and then analyze five other major worldviews through the lens of a biblical worldview.

So we look at, in addition to Christianity, secularism, Marxism, postmodernism, new spirituality, and Islam. And then out of that, after we've looked at the worldviews generally, then we look at ten different academic disciplines and how each worldview approaches that discipline.

So theology, philosophy, psychology, economics, history, law, politics, so biology. So we go through all of those, looking at those through the lenses of those worldviews, how they look at those. So that's the, it takes a year to get through all of that.

So we have a textbook from Summit Ministries called Understanding the Times that we use, and I supplement that with other stuff. So that's junior Bible. Senior Bible is, first semester is apologetics.

And so, and we can talk more about that. And then second semester for the seniors is Christian living. So as they're getting ready to graduate, kind of helping them think through some of the things they are probably going to be confronted with as they head out away from the friendly confines of CHA and into the world.

So trying to get them ready for some of those things and think about some of that. Would you consider CHA a little bit of a bubble? Yes. Yeah, it is. Is that why this class that you've been, because I remember when the idea of some of these apologetics classes, and I know you were already teaching some worldview, were coming in.

We and I talked about that a little bit, but it seemed that this was, there was a need for these kids who had been steeped in some really good tradition. I mean, you're talking about Christian Heritage Academy, I mean, the, you know, just Mr. Bullard, for example.

Right. You know, a wonderful legacy, and you learned a lot about the biblical history of our country. But there seemed, there's something was missing, and it seemed that they tasked you to fill that void.

What was that void? Well, it really kind of grew out of about, I don't know, five or six years ago, maybe. Made the decision to kind of rework the scope and sequence of stuff in secondary Bible. So that's junior high and high school.

So it was kind of, I mean, it was good, but there wasn't really a logical progression to it. So we reworked things. So seventh grade Bible now is an Old Testament overview. Eighth grade is New Testament overview.

Ninth grade, first semester, is study of hermeneutics, so biblical interpretation. Second semester of ninth grade is survey of church history. Tenth grade is systematic theology. And then you already know what 11th and 12th grade are.

So in reworking all of that and trying to have some logical progression to it, it was decided, yeah, apologetics, though they get some of that in their classes, it would be helpful to kind of focus on that as seniors.

Defining Apologetics and the Principle Approach

And so I had to think through, okay, how do we want to approach that? Where do we want to begin? So our whole approach is called the principle approach. So that begins with defining terms. How does the Bible look at your particular topic?

So kind of walking through all that and then trying to decide, okay, in apologetics, there's a lot of different directions you can go and a lot of different approaches you can take. So how are we going to do that?

I don't know that I arrived at what is, you know, perfect in any way. There's always room for improvement and refinement, and I'm always trying to do that and learn. But yeah, we look at, like, the first thing is, I think Hebrews 11 6 says, whoever comes to God must believe that he exists and he rewards those who earnestly.

So do you even believe that God exists? And what evidence is there for the existence of God? And again, there are different approaches to that. There's presuppositional approach, there's evidential approach, there's classical apologetics, there's all of that.

And I suppose my approach is kind of a blend of all of that to a certain degree. But we look at, you know, what are some of the evidences for the existence of God? And so you look at the cosmological argument and the teleological argument and the ontological argument and all of that.

Which are part and parcel of the classical apologetics school, but they're well understood and helpful arguments. And then you weave into that evidential stuff, and yeah, so that's kind of where we go.

So your students, they start up with the foundation of just Scripture, Old Testament, New Testament. They go to hermeneutics, and now they've actually read, it's okay, this is kind of what it means. And then you start moving them into worldview, and you said that was the lens through which you view the world.

And it's not just living your life. You actually looked at individual disciplines, like you said, like law and politics and science, which is amazing. I definitely want to talk about how your worldview affects those.

But when you start talking about apologetics, what do you mean? You want to define in terms, what do you mean when you say apologetics? Well, it comes from the Greek word apologia, which means to defend, to make a defense for.

So I did, I wrote down, like, you know, the key verse that every apologetics book goes to, 1st Peter 3, verses 15 and 16, especially verse 15. So, but in your hearts, honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

Yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. So, always being prepared to make a defense, but to do so with gentleness and respect.

I think that's one of the key things I try to remind my students of. We live in a day and age where people defend all kinds of things. I mean, you don't have to go very far on the internet and find all kinds of voices trying to defend this, that, and the other.

But most of the time, it's not with gentleness and respect. One of the things that I respect highly about Francis Schaeffer, the late Francis Schaeffer, was I just, I've always considered him to be a gracious apologist.

He stands for truth, but he understands that people are made in the image of God, and you treat them as such. So, sometimes you're pretty direct, and you go through what he calls taking the roof off, you know, to expose the fallacy of what they're thinking in a very clear and direct way.

But even when you do that, you do it with respect, just not to demean them. But sometimes people need to be shaken a little bit. A little bit. There's some wonderful stories about Francis Schaeffer at his chalet, Le Brie, the place where he ministered to the intelligentsia of Europe.

And I'm trying to remember who actually told this story, but they said, although his arguments are compelling, he's incredibly intelligent, that's not ultimately what convinced me. It was the love that he and his wife showed me and showed the people that came in there.

They lived out Christian love and showed them Jesus, and then he was able to hear the arguments. Yeah, one of my favorite stories about that was, and I can't remember where I read it, but someone made the comment that as many people were converted to Christ through Edith Schaeffer's cinnamon rolls as through Francis Schaeffer's lessons.

So, that's probably a little overstatement, but yeah, there's a point of their care and concern for people as people.

Don't underestimate a good cinnamon roll. Yes. Christian hospitality is the original evangelism strategy for the early church. Yeah, absolutely. There's a.

Lesson. There's definitely a lesson in there. Yeah. So, all that to say, defining terms, apologetics has to do with defending the faith. There are a lot of verses that relate to that, but the first Peter one is the main one.

I like the definition of apologetics, and I use this in my class from Doug Grutys, who's a professor of apologetics at Denver Seminary, I think. I have a big honking book by him that's like three inches thick on apologetics, but he has this definition, which I think is really good.

He says, Christian apologetics is the rational defense of the Christian worldview as objectively true, rationally compelling, and existentially or subjectively engaging, which I think reflects that first Peter verse well.

You know, that truth is true whether I believe it or not. It's objectively true. So, the focus on what is objectively true, and if it's true, then it needs to compel me to do something with it. It's not just what I know in my head, but what do I do with that?

What does it call me to do? So, it's rationally compelling, and then existentially or subjectively engaged, it makes a difference in my heart and in my life. Again, it's not just about the head, it's about the heart as well, and then that affects my hands and my heels, what I do in my life.

Objective Truth and Postmodernism

I mean, just admitting or starting from the premise that there is objective truth, that it can be even discovered, is that something that your worldview junior students have to encounter, where there is the idea of, well, there's your truth, this woman is speaking her truth, and that truth ends up being, you know, what's it called, standpoint epistemology.

I mean, that truth is really just from your perspective. Is that something that your students have already encountered? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And so, we talk about that all the time and try to bring in, you know, illustrations of that.

And so, yeah, the whole idea, I mean, the whole postmodern worldview is rooted in that perspective of, you know, truth, if it does exist, we can't really know it anyway, you know. So, all you really have is your own experience, your own feelings, and that becomes the basis for what is true.

Everything's a narrative, there is no meta-narrative, everything's language based, and that's all local, local definitions, there's no objective truth. Except for the claim that that is objective truth.

I mean, that, and that's what I keep telling my students, you know, for postmodernism, it's all about being skeptical. And I say, you know, postmodernism is basically skeptical skepticism. It's skeptical even of its own skepticism, and that's the truth.

I.

Think I heard somebody once define postmodernism more as a mood. Yeah, usually a depressing, pessimistic mood. It's not so much a, yeah, you could say it's a worldview, but it's not a coherent worldview, it's more of like a mood.

But, so you have different types of conversations and apologetics, you have different types of people with different types of objections and concerns, obviously organically related to whatever worldview they're kind of operating with, whether they're aware of that worldview or not, whether they've examined it or not.

So your blended approach in apologetics, classical evidentiary and presuppositional, makes sense because when you get into a conversation with someone, you don't know where they're at. And so Colossians 4, again another classic apologetics passage, Colossians 4 verse 5, walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time, let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how to answer each one.

Which the wisdom we remember from Proverbs, do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes. And so if you're talking to somebody who is claiming that there is, that the Christian worldview is illogical, classical apologetics is going to play a role in your conversation.

If they're saying there's no proof, evidential apologetics is going to be helpful. If somebody is making arguments based on authority that they are imposing on you, without them examining what that authority is, then your presuppositional is ready to go.

So you.

Have to have a blended approach. Right. Yeah. That's a good analysis. I We'll get you the recording. Well, it seems that your students that are in your class, especially those who have come up through 7th and 8th and up through 12th, have a pretty solid foundation when they graduate.

Parental Involvement in Biblical Education

What role do you need or expect their parents to play as their students come up through these classes and then enter the 11th and 12th and start coming into kind of these capstone application kind of classes?

Well, my hope is that they talk with their parents about what we're talking about in class. You know, that like today, the juniors in Christian worldview, we had a test over politics. And so looking at all of these different worldviews and how they approach politics, which is basically the exercise of power in governance.

So I would hope that maybe they have their parents help them study for the test, you know, walk through their textbook with them, ask them questions. So I would hope that they do that. One of the other things that we do with 11th grade is we offer an honors credit for it.

So in the honors part, you, I have a list of books so they can choose from the list of books. There's one that's required and then others that they can choose from and they have to write a report on it and then they have to talk to someone about the book.

And a lot of times they will talk to a parent about the book that they've read. And those are always good conversations between kids and their parents about worldview issues. So anyway, I hope that that happens that, you know, they ask their parents questions, that when they see things on TV or hear something on a podcast that that raises questions.

And yeah, that they talk to mom and dad first. I mean, I'm glad to answer questions, but I really want them to talk to their parents first. Just as in any subject, you'd want the parents involved in their English class and their history class and their science class and everything.

But in this one in particular, you know, your worldviews and your apologetics classes, we're actually engaging with media, actually engaging with politics, actually engaging with the social fabric around you.

As they get ready to exit the home, it becomes even more important for them to, hey mom, hey dad, I heard this and this is what I think. And based upon what I read in the Bible, this is what this means.

Is that correct? That's a very good and healthy and almost expected conversation, something as you want these students to be doing. Right. I mean, that's really part of the mission of CHA is to assist the home.

We're not there to replace the home. We're there to assist the home and the church in building a solid foundation in the life of every student. So yeah, my hope, my goal is that they would talk to parents first and foremost.

Now that doesn't always happen. You know, not every kid that comes to CHA comes from a solid Christian home. Really? And so, you know. They just go there because it's a good private school, good high academics.

Right, right. And so we do have some students that come in in that situation. And truth be told, even those that do come from good solid Christian homes, that doesn't guarantee that they really buy into what we're teaching.

You know, seniors just took a test that every senior class has taken for like the last 20 years called the Pierce Worldview Test. So it's put out by the Nehemiah Institute, and it tests students in terms of their worldview thinking in politics, economics, education, religion, and society.

So there's 70 statements that they have to respond to, and so it's interesting. You know, the designers of the test break it down into four categories when you're done. You know, if you score 70 or above, you get a biblical theist.

You're in that category. If you're 30 to 69, you're moderate Christian. You may not agree with the wording of the categories, but you know, you're in that category. Then the next category down, 30 to 0, I think, or something like that, is secular humanist.

And then if you're below that, you're a socialist. Wow. So it was very interesting in this last group of seniors that took the test. So there's 52 seniors. I think we had seven of the 52 that scored in the biblical theist category, but we had 12 that scored below 30.

So in the secular humanist, or some even in the socialist category. So, and you never know on those tests. I mean, part of it could just be senioritis, and they're not even paying attention. They don't really care, and they're just marking stuff down.

But you also have some that you know, no, they purposely chose to answer. So, yeah, just because we teach it doesn't mean that they take it. So. Right. Which is frustrating and saddening at the same time.

Social Media's Influence on Student Worldview

Is this a trend that you've seen over the years that's just been sliding that way? Or is this, or is it kind of dropped off a cliff in the last couple of years? Well, I think something this year that I noticed that I thought was kind of unique of the 12 students that scored, you know, in the lower part of the test, 11 of the 12 were girls.

And that was a little kind of taken aback by that. Sure. So talked to my daughter who has a PhD in education. I said, you know, this came out, seems kind of odd to me. She said, well, no, not really. She said, girls tend to be on social media more and influenced by that more than guys.

Guys do video games. I mean, they're online doing that sort of stuff, and they're doing maybe online gambling, but they're not necessarily buying into all the trends of social media. But girls are, and essentially you go back and look at the categories, and yeah, to a person, I mean, they were really low on the social aspect, you know.

So it's interesting because there is sort of a disconnect. Many times they would score high in the religion part, so they know what the Bible says. Right. But there's a disconnect between that and actually applying it, believing it in these other areas.

So yeah, I'm not, on the one hand, I think we're teaching the right things and giving them the tools that they need, but at some point they've got to take those for themselves as well. So that's the challenge in all this, I think.

And that's where parents play a really important role, is to check up on your kids, talk to them, ask them questions. What do you, you know, you've been watching the news, did you hear this? What do you think?

It should not be a surprise to a parent that their child believes, you know, believes this way. It says, oh, I had absolutely no idea. I sent them to this amazing Christian school, and they should have come out, you know, minted in the appropriate box as a, you know, strong Bible-believing Christian, you know, you're from Oklahoma, for heaven's sakes, you know, this.

And what you're saying is that even with that training, it may not reach the heart, and parents really need to know where their kids are, not just what they say, what they actually believe. Right, right.

And that just, that comes from conversations. And families are extremely busy, and so I'm not always sure what level of conversations take place in homes. That has to be intentional, and so if there's not that intentionality, kids can fly under the radar.

And, you know, parents may spend the money to get them in the in the schools and all that stuff, but if they never check up to see exactly what they're thinking and doing, they're missing the boat. So, Ken, you've had two.

Changes in Student Culture Over Ken's Two Teaching Tenures

Stints of teaching at CHA, and you had a gap of almost what? Ten years. I taught.

For ten, was gone for ten, and now I'm in my ninth year back. Okay. Did you notice.

Any difference between the kind of biblical literacy and worldview of the first ten years versus these nine years? Has there been a big shift as far as, I mean, it's a small anecdote just being CHA, but still, have you noticed some differences that have stood out to you at all?

I don't know that it's.

That significant. It may just be because it is CHA. I mean, we are a pretty conservative and biblically focused school, and so people know when they send their kids there, they're gonna get a healthy dose of biblical instruction, and there's gonna be a big focus on that, you know.

So, I don't know that there's been a huge difference in that. I mean, I can remember there was a class in my first ten years that, oh man, I was ready to quit after that class. I mean, and there were some kids that came out of that class that have really gone off the rails, and I know that there have been those even since I've returned, you know, nine years ago that have gone off the rails as well.

So, again, I don't know that there's a huge difference in that part of it. What I think is different is the influence of media, some social media, the accessibility to all of that, particularly through smartphones.

I was just reading a couple of articles that I got just within the last couple of days from Summit Ministries about Gen Z and Gen Alpha, and that they are considered, you know, digital natives. You know, they've never known a life without access to the Internet.

Most of them don't know what life is like without a smartphone. Most of them can't write cursive. Well, that's a whole different issue, but yes, we've had lots of discussions about that at school. So, I don't know that it's a decline in biblical literacy among our students.

Now, it may be in the society as in general, but I don't know about, I don't think that's necessarily so with our students. But I do think that the influence and accessibility of digital information has had an impact.

So, I mean, the school took some steps a couple of years ago to not allow students to keep their cell phones on them. So, we lock them up in a phone jail every morning. So, we have little boxes in the first hour classes that they have to turn them in and they're locked up and put away, and then they can get them when school is out.

That was huge. Just in terms of students learning to talk to one another, look at each other in the eye, talk over lunch, talk when they're at their locker. I mean, they've got five minutes between periods, which isn't long, but they would run to their lockers, get on their phone to see, okay, what have I missed?

Who have I gotten an email from? What's going on? And then they're off to class, you know? So, just that simple thing has helped, at least during the school day. Now, when school is out and they've picked up their phone, you can see they're walking down the hall with their head down looking at their phone.

So, the addiction is still there, but we're trying to do what we can. So, just focusing on the students that do take this material to heart and have come up through the program, and it has obviously had a positive impact on them.

Tools and Resources for Graduates

These are, I call these, these near adults, and some of them are already 18. So, what tools do they now have when they exit the class? What tools have you, would they not have if they hadn't had your class?

Well, I think for one thing, just the lessons that they've been taught in class about apologetics, about the reliability of Scripture, the evidences for the existence of God. You know, in Christian living right now, we're just finishing up, well, almost done with a section on the church.

Why is the church essential? Why do you need to be a member of a church? You know, we took a look at just the trends of church membership and the decline of that. So, trying to equip them to say, when you leave here, don't give in to the temptation to sleep in on Sunday.

You need to be in the church. You need to be actively involved. You have something to contribute, and the church has something to contribute to you. The church is the bride of Christ. Christ died for the church.

And so, if you see the church as kind of optional, you're not understanding the role of the church biblically. And so, you know, talking about things like that. So, the lessons, I think, are important.

The books that they read, exposure to all these arguments, like in 11th grade Bible, and understanding the times as their textbook. So, getting a direct understanding of what exactly is Islam? What does Islam say about itself?

You know, and so, there are quotes from the Quran, and they read exactly what the Quran says. Now, I'm sure Muslims would say, well, you're not reading it in Arabic, and that's, you know, you're not getting a true translation.

Well, okay, I'm not gonna debate that with you. But anyway, trying to let each worldview actually speak for itself in its own words, and then evaluate that. So, I don't know that they would necessarily get that otherwise.

And then, to take all that back to Scripture. What does God say about all this? So, trying to bring all that around. So, I think that's valuable. They do the honor stuff, you know, they're reading some additional books that are helpful in apologetics.

I use the book, which I love it just for the title, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. So, by Norm Giesler and Frank Turek. So, it's an older book. I mean, it was written in the early 2000s, but has some really good illustrations, good stories.

That was painful. It was an older book. It's an old book written in the early 2000s. Yeah, well. That hurt, man. Yeah. Coming from an old guy, that doesn't seem that long ago. Anyway. So, yeah, just the resources that they have to read, articles that we have them read.

Some of the other teachers do some really good things in their classes where they have to do presentations and talk. That's a shortcoming of mine. I need to do a better job on that. I make them do a lot of reading and writing, which is also good.

So, things like that, that have helped them to think through on their own, wrestle with, be able to articulate it themselves. Right. So, those are some of the things that I think school does well. Have you had students that go on, let's say, to a, you know, just a secular college, ever come back or ever talk to their parents, talk to you guys about some of the things that they have encountered at their college campus and says, I knew this was coming.

Yeah. And even though it was stressful, and even though it was a little awkward and uncomfortable, I was prepared. Quite often. Yeah. It is, it is funny when you get those, you're always grateful. You think that, in the middle of it, you think, I'm not sure anybody's really listening at all.

And then when they come back and say, you know, when that came up in this class, I already knew something about that because we talked about that before. And I was prepared for whatever they were going to say.

So, it's always fun to get those kind of reports. And parents that come back and say, you know, thank you for what you taught. It really helped them handle this, that, or the other. And so, it's always good when you get that.

And I'm sure maybe there's more of it that we never hear about, which is fine. But when you do hear about it, that's a blessing too. Yeah. I had the privilege of going to a high school level TPUSA event where they were engaging in civil discourse, where they were actually doing staging mock debates, where they had to defend a position, even one that they personally didn't hold themselves.

And one of the guys, Steven, who I like a lot, one of their first debates, it was on abortion, and he had to defend the pro-abortion side. And apparently, he did such a good job that his girlfriend at the time got really upset with him and said, no, no, no, I didn't mean it.

You know, but he was actually putting up a reasonable defense. And it was interesting to listen to him, you know, talk through that. But those kinds of debates, mock debates, forensic societies, make you articulate a view and mount a defense.

Yeah. Yeah. So, learning how to engage in rhetoric, you know, to talk about it and write, you know, being able to reason and write is important. So, we really try to emphasize all of that. So, yeah, those are some of the tools they come out with that I think are really good for them in the long run.

I mean, the school is a great school in terms of all the STEM stuff, math and science. We have a really great math and science department. But I'm really, I'm very happy with our Bible department and what we teach, how we teach it, the sequence of all that.

So... Well, you have students that are in a... I went to military school and it was a very controlled environment. And CHA, you know, because it's small and you attract a certain demographic, can be a little bit more controlled.

It doesn't surprise me, although it saddens me that you have students who have gone through these programs and you could tell it just did not touch their heart. It just didn't. So, that's a little painful.

But still, it seems to be an environment that you have a lot of control over. Some parents in our congregation, and some listening to this podcast, have to send their kids to public school. That is the reality.

Advice for Parents with Children in Public School

What advice can you give them? How could they augment the instruction of their kids? Because they're supposed to be teaching them at home, they're supposed to be doing family worship, but this is something that they could be also doing at home.

What kind of advice would you give them? Well, I, you know, when we came to Oklahoma in 1997, it was for two reasons. One was for me to teach at CHA, and the other was for my kids to be at CHA. So, my kids had been in public school all the way up to that point in time.

So, my oldest, Kyle, was coming in as a sophomore. Megan was going to be in sixth grade, I think, and Andy in fifth grade. And so, we had, particularly with Kyle, we'd seen some things in public schools that, you know, distressed us, we didn't agree with.

We weren't in a place where a Christian school was an option. We didn't feel like homeschooling was anything we wanted to, you know, dive into. So, the Lord opened up an opportunity for me to come to CHA to teach.

All that to say, you know, if your kids are in public school, and I would say, ask them questions, a lot of questions, almost a daily debrief. What happened at school today? What were you taught? What was said?

You know, find out what's going on so that you know how to counteract that, if it's false, if it's deceitful, if it's going to undermine their faith, then you need to learn about it. And so, the only way you're going to learn about it is to ask questions.

They're probably not going to volunteer it, unless it's just, whoa, way out there. Otherwise, they're just going to kind of go with the flow, generally. So, I think the biggest thing is to talk, ask questions.

Be involved. Yeah, be in grasp. Sometimes, I don't.

Know if high schoolers, young folks, are aware of what they're absorbing and just fitting in to everything that they're already thinking. So, sometimes, they don't even know what happened that day. Well, how was class today?

It was fine. You know, it's like, you can't give me... So, sometimes, it helps to put on a filter to sift through and you kind of find out where a young person is. A classic question about future plans.

What are you wanting to do next? The classic interview question, where do you see yourself in five years? You know, but as they begin to pick up cues from their peers, as they begin to look at the models being put before them by social media, as they begin to formulate their expectations of the future based on how their teachers are framing values for them, then you begin to kind of get a feel for where they're at because of where they're aiming.

And, oh, so why do you think that? Why do you think you want to do that? Why do you think you want to go that direction? And you begin to get at what's going on in their value system. Where'd you get that.

Idea? Why is that important? Yeah, and the why question is a big question that doesn't get asked enough, probably. We're good about, you know, wanting to know about facts, but yeah, why is always a good one to throw in the mix.

So, anyway, talk to them, ask questions, expose them to good books. You know, some people have taken the route of, you know, I will pay you so much for reading this book and writing a report on it. I was too cheap to ever do that, but you might say, hey, let's read this book together and talk about it.

That's a helpful thing. So, or sit down, watch a video, listen to a podcast together. Help them find what's good. They don't always know what's good to read, to listen to, to watch. So, help curate some of that stuff for them.

You could pay them to listen to our podcast. That's true. Yes, that is true. We could use some more sponsors. One of my favorite memories, and I have many, raising my daughter, but going through a book together, analyzing a movie that we saw, some video or something, or going to some event, and sitting down with her and says, okay, let's talk about this.