Open Theism Debate Aftershow, 3/1/2024

How'd you guys get in here?

Well, no, that's in.

Oh, I know what it is that's in.

Sorry.

Yeah, that's in.

Facebook or or The others and never mind.

Yeah, he was he was very bad and You'll know he started off with insults.

I couldn't.

I was surprised.

It's like what they actually said.

Matt lied when but what what is wrong with these people?

It was ridiculous.

Now it was this horrible.

And the text chat, I mean these guys are blind, you know.

They were constantly misrepresenting what I was saying.

Saying this would.

Matt thinks that that's not what I think.

This is what Calvinism said.

That's not what Calvinism says.

Is really interesting to see that the ignorance.

That these guys had.

And this guy Chris Fisher.

Seriously, I'm not kidding.

He didn't seem to understand the basics of Christian theology.

I mean, I'd like to just sit there and go how are we saved?

What are you gonna do to be saved?

You know, what's a Trinity?

I didn't.

I thought about asking the trick what the Trinity is.

I thought I didn't want to get into a mire here.

He might not even understand what that is.

And then we're gonna start saying well Platonism.

It's just all platonic.

He doesn't even know what he's talking about.

He had no clue.

You think he's a we're watching this you try to.

Yeah, ah.

That's good.

So.

Let's see.

Let's see it go over here to car videos.

See go watch it on.

See how many people might be there.

Okay, hey, there we go, let's see there we go.

All right.

Well, there's a lot of fun.

Um.

It's so painful to hear watch the tour he was.

I agree he was rude and disrespectful and Condescending.

It's like are you kidding me.

And the things he was saying about God?

What I mean for real that God listened to the higher morality of

Abraham?

And then to say well that God's choices aren't all moral.

Of course.

They are.

He's holy it is nature everything he does is holy.

This deal of morality and Wow John Griffin has some

competition for words here.

Ridicule flip -flop and slop.

That's good actually.

I thought I thought he just did badly all the way around I thought he was horrible.

Man it was pretty bad.

I'm just gonna let you guys know in about five minutes I gotta go check on my wife her hearts going really fast and she may just need me to sit

with her.

I'm just giving you that.

Yeah, they seem to deny.

Yeah, they have to because they can't justify how God would impute specific sins of individuals to Christ, which is why I

went there.

Okay.

Well, there's 50 theories.

Well, what do you hold to.

You know, that's why I asked him did Jesus bear our sins, you know.

Then he wouldn't even answer it.

Okay.

Well, what does it mean to bear says he wouldn't even answer it.

No, this is what.

This is a good example of what bad theology on God does to everything else.

Everything else sucks canal water.

Because they couldn't exegete their way out of a wet paper.

Notice what I said.

You couldn't execute your way to wet paper plus on it back.

Which I thought was funny.

My wife had really my wife has Louise Dietz and she had a one -heart surgery

valves fixed in her heart.

She said Goblet of surgery hand surgeries feet surgery.

She's got scoliosis.

She's got arthritis.

She's got so many things and she's got a pacemaker the whole bit.

So.

She's just poor girl.

She's just going through it.

Seriously.

Seriously, it's just it's really something.

But Bicep prolo and run payroll for her palpitations.

It's skipping even though she has a pacemaker.

So anyway.

So.

I'll probably go check.

What I'll probably do here in a minute is Just put us on hold to go check on her come back in a couple three minutes kind of a thing.

You have a bit of half of all that myself, yeah.

Yeah, all right, so.

Hey Charlie, how you doing?

It's just us, right?

No, there's people watch.

It just doesn't hear.

I change those settings to.

Well, then I'll keep my comments g -rated about the debate.

Okay.

Well, let me put everything on to this.

Which I wasn't doing before.

Ah, that sounds much much crisper.

Okay, wait a minute.

There we go.

And So here we go.

They're not gonna hear everything in here.

All right.

Whoo.

That was.

That was a dumpster fire.

I.

Have never seen such a shameless mocker.

I don't know how else to put it.

Of course Warren McGrew was slamming me in the chat.

Yeah, you're right.

That it was ridiculous.

See, you know what like with more hormone Warren Warren McGrew's slamming me, of course, they're gonna slam me.

Okay, that's just what they're gonna do.

All right now look I brought this out of my opening statement.

They're gonna have their verses.

I'm gonna have my verses.

I'm gonna interpret they're gonna interpret.

They're gonna say no this means that I'm gonna say no what means this we're gonna go back and forth.

The underlying principle is their view of God.

That's the critical issue.

If you believe that God knows all things and doesn't learn then you can interpret those and say well God just anthropomorphic

if you say that God can learn he's restricted and you're gonna say well he was learning.

Okay.

So this is it and when people say well you didn't answer the verses.

Well, you see the thing is I can give you a lot of verses about God's sovereignty immutability.

He never changes they say he does and I can go through this.

This is not the issue.

The issue is what is your view of God when you have a particular view of God?

We can examine it and to see what it means and that's what I was doing.

So I had him on the ropes 80 90 percent of the time.

He didn't know how to answer.

He didn't know what to do he makes Stupid comments.

I mean they were.

I asked him what's free will he goes on a different direction.

You know, this is what the open theist talk about, okay.

Well, what is that if I asked within Trinity?

I didn't I thought about I'm not gonna ask him because I don't want to see how bad he is he didn't even understand the two natures of Christ

and then he made that Incredible bad statement that the divine

nature.

I mean the human nature is divine.

That's that's heresy.

It's called monophysitism that there's a combo and emerging of them.

It doesn't happen like that.

It just does not work.

These guys cannot think they do not think they don't know how to think through these things.

And then if you do think logically, well, it's just Platonism.

In other words what they're saying is I don't want to think critically and if you think critically I'm gonna just say that it's Platonism.

So any there's no critical thought allowed only what we say the scriptures being the plain

meaning of the text we're gonna tell you how it really is and Normal people will think like us the

arrogance and the pride that was within these arguments in this person.

It's ridiculous.

This is why I didn't want to get into a well What does it say thing?

Well, we went to a dude on me too and looked at it and I gave a reason this is what it is.

Because when they say well that God tested them to see what was in their heart.

Doesn't he know everything doesn't he know the present exhaustively?

That's an open theist teach well, then how many they didn't answer the question if he has to learn what's in their hearts

that he doesn't know what's in his heart and If he does know everything in their hearts already as the Bible.

As they say that why would he have to test them but they don't answer these questions they ignore these questions.

They repeatedly ignore them.

By doing that.

He just make himself look like the fools.

I Asked these questions.

No, you just quote philosophy.

You mean thinking?

And then when I showed him out of Acts 17 and other places where Paul quotes at amenities menander and

Erastus pagan philosophers He uses them and so I can quote Plato if I want Geez,

I mean Paul certainly quoted these guys, you know, I can do this.

I don't think it he was aware of that but He couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper platonic

bag.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, you gave him many golden bridges of retreat to save his theological

Advantage of those bridges and even I'm trying

to lead him to a more correct view.

Simply from the the Frank statements made in Scripture.

He wasn't going to have anything to do with it.

Ridiculous.

Yeah, and so he's got trounced.

Yeah, well, I just put in the link for those who might be interested on your page on open

theism and It's so typical what he said.

You've got literally dozens and dozens of articles there.

That answer a lot of the charges he was making and the accusations and his point of view.

They're they're easily refuted with those articles and explained.

Well, apparently he never looked at that page and if he did he was being in

Disingenuous by going for those arguments that there's sound biblical answers to that you've given there.

Yeah, so That section you've got on open theism is is a a

class of itself right there.

Yeah, it was it was so bad.

I mean I was gonna watch a movie and I got rolled into this.

As.

Soon as he said that innocent people died in the flood.

What I was like show me the verse I wrote and I said show me.

There is no verse.

He's a Pelagian.

Babies don't sin.

They don't have any sin.

What it's just.

This guy doesn't understand biblical theology.

Open.

I'm starting to believe that open theism just hamstrings your brain.

You can't learn biblical theology, okay, look you guys talk.

I go check on my wife just to just to check.

All right, because I did.

I'll be back in you know, five minutes or less, but okay, go ahead.

No, Charlie.

I Remember a store a guy told me a story years ago That there was a guy a big SPC guy

like 20 30 years back or late 90s.

He went into open theism and eventually went apostate.

It just it leads down that road and you can see what these guys they're ripping verses out of context.

They're saying things aren't there even though the scriptures.

They're like the Get innocent people dying in the flood, you know, and you didn't understand the

hypostatic union either with the divine and the human nature I mean.

And then the whole drinking game thing too is very distasteful, you know, like.

Yeah, that's one of the things I disliked the most about it.

His is open mocking Of the topic or of Matt's points on the topic

Even prior to his coming in and doing this appearance of with Marlon.

You could see he had his pre Pre -made Text he was

reading from with all his insults and all his mockings.

I mean this was a pre -programmed thing for him to do which is Especially shameful when

you're supposed to be having a discussion or an open discussion.

This this the scripted Crud was

unseemly and It shows how disingenuous this guy was.

He was just coming in there to to mock The way he mocked and it was sickening.

Well, yeah, and I think because I saw that last Discussion a couple months ago where he was there and

Warren McGrew were there and I think Matt got under his skin.

So this is kind of like his type of payback.

Even though I mean his arguments can't hold up but the whole drinking game, you know the whole fallacies.

You know throwing up the fallacies all the time and take a drink and I honestly question.

I mean, I don't know for sure, but he seemed a little.

Possibly even in a beret inebriated like during the thing.

I mean, I don't know that for sure, but he seemed a little Out there, you know.

You know, you might be right looking back.

I wasn't looking for that but.

Yeah, you could have a good point there.

Yeah, I don't I don't know for sure, but it just seemed odd to me and it just see I mean right off the

bat.

There was no.

You know, there was no back -and -forth.

It was just you know, let's we know how mad is we're gonna go after him in this way.

We're gonna get under his skin.

I mean and to to mass defense.

He did a really good job of holding it together.

While this guy was just taking shot after shot and all the you know doing everything he

could To try to get under his skin and I've seen other guys like this, you know.

I'm sure that was a Tactic that Matt was using to expose the

nonsense.

Okay, use it as a teaching lesson for those that run up against some of these guys.

Maybe they won't be as mocking and Shameless as this guy, but the the

substance of what he was going over is going to be commonly hit upon with other

Open theists and that in itself is a lesson, but how to deal with a mocker like that

it exposes that mocker.

As at the same time as it tackles the open theism questions.

Well, and and what's interesting too is in the chat.

You have like Sean Griffin who denies the Trinity and some of these other false teachers in the chat and they were

Agreeing with the other guy.

They're agreeing with Chris.

They're going.

Yeah, that's right.

Matt uses philosophy exposes philosophy.

That's all he's got is the philosophical arguments and they're just tagging along and that's not a good sign when you

have.

Yeah, he set the pace by making these wild Unfounded

assertions that he had no way to defend and when you tried to approach it with him He'd

skedaddle like a rat when you turn the light on in the middle of the night.

So yeah, they were just Just following along with but one thing I did enjoy.

The topics went in such a way as this thing that Matt's put together on open theism.

I almost could just go.

A.

Article for article for article on the tail end of each other Approaching these these

questions and answering these questions.

So I thought it was a delightful experience for me to put in there for anybody who might be honestly

interested in that room.

To follow up on their own and look and see the questions and answers to the topics.

I had a Good time doing that and I hope people take advantage of those things.

As I know Marlon Replays his broadcast all the time and so they can

look in the chat in.

Oh, I was delighted to do that.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, that was good.

I think that was a good thing.

I.

Wasn't sure if on Marlon's venue if my Article

my topical articles and links were going through because I had a YouTube channel I was trying to post links on

or it wasn't my channel, so it wouldn't accept links.

But I was post.

Oh, I I'm not sure if I saw I might have seen a few I don't.

I can't really remember and have to look back.

Is that how that works?

Yeah, I could see him as I posted him but on the channel I was on one time it it didn't show up for other

people so I don't know.

I'll go back and look at his.

At his podcast repeat and I'll see if they're there.

Yeah, I gotcha but yeah, that was a that was just a total

a total dumpster fire, I mean just Totally.

I mean it's at some point.

You're just like is this was this just a bait technique to get you out there and I

Mean, I don't know.

It was a dumpster fire for him.

He couldn't he didn't know what he was doing and I wasn't gonna let him get the upper hand because you know he's a heretic

and I just went in I'm gonna start asking questions and He didn't know what to do but he some of

the stinking heresy he said God adopts Abraham's higher standard.

What.

Talk about ass an entity.

Seriously, God adopts Abraham's higher standard.

Does he realize how utterly?

Stupid that statement is because it is it's ridiculous.

It's asinine.

Well, it's it's the man -centered theology.

I mean you just see it oozing out of every time he wanted to bring God down to a level of us

every single time and and that's what you see over and over with every response he had and He's got

this system all these guys him warm and grew late and flowers all these guys kind of hang out with each other.

They they're obsessed with this provisionism and all this open and leading to open theism and all this stuff

and and.

And this is what you get you get.

Not the God of the Bible you get the God of their Idea, and it's so crazy that they go against

all the historical teaching.

Just 2 ,000 years down the drain.

I.

Yeah, so and another thing he said God will often do things against his better judgment on account of our prayers.

He said that I what God will often because I got this with another debate.

Yeah some stuff you did.

I went when he said that I went what and.

And so I read it back to him tonight and he goes, yeah.

Yeah, that doesn't that doesn't make any sense.

I was trying to think of some other things.

He said the.

Or what was the timeless thing he was talking about?

Oh, you know, it also is very annoying.

He kept mispronouncing James Dois.

Dois L's name.

If you ever heard It's James Dois.

Oh, he's like dozo dozo.

I don't know that is.

Squatch.

He's a he's a classical theist guy, okay, well James Dois out and you'd always mispronounce it but.

Yeah, hey Jacob, how are you?

Hey good, I do a mat good and.

Are you up at the as Christian or what or what?

Good and do not open theist.

Oh.

No, I believe I mean, I believe that God, you know knows everything that they believe that God doesn't know everything, right?

They believe he knows things but he doesn't know your free will choices.

This guy was so inconsistent in his own stuff.

So what you did you watch it?

I'm not You.

What.

No, I kind of just got it at the end when y 'all were doing questions.

Yeah, let's just say I would call it a dumpster fire and that my

opponent Was Incapable of debating logically critically and

addressing the issues.

He avoided questions repeatedly.

I asked him stuff about scripture and then he would say you're just interpreting it.

I just read and Then ask a question based on exactly what it said repeating it and he

couldn't even address that.

I mean it was it was horrible.

Well, what was interesting is if you would have you didn't get to do this a lot.

But if you were to stick in the scriptures and stick in the passages like, you know When you're out there preaching or sharing the gospel You're

evangelizing when you go in the context and you go through the scriptures.

If you were to do that, he would probably just keep pushing back.

I mean he was already pushing back on the minimal scriptures, you know.

Just not in the whole context that you were giving but you know.

If you were to kept going through that he's just gonna jump around and go all over the place and he sees it

through his Presuppositional, you know open theist Lens, you know through that

presupposition and it just you can't see anything else.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was it was bad.

It really was.

Yeah.

Did you notice that he had a script he was going from with all his insults and Assertions and

innuendos and he was reading it in mocking.

Yeah.

He had prepared he had been he'd prepared himself for his mocking.

Line of whatever.

I'm having a hard time.

Remaining g -rated.

Anyway, I'll be right back.

But that that's what I was wondering if it was just a thing to bait you, you know, like someone asked a question.

Chris are you actually an atheist that's trolling Matt?

That was one of the questions that was asked in the chat.

Someone actually thought that and I thought he might have been inebriated a little bit because the drinking game

he seemed very like.

He didn't seem very focused.

He seemed kind of out of it.

I mean, I don't know but I'm just saying just the way he was acting and.

Getting egged on by the guys in the chat like warm and grew in them, you know, I didn't really.

He sucked and open theism sucks canal water.

Well, yeah, and it eventually like we were talking.

I mean, I don't know how you could be a Christian and Hold to open theism

and continue to be a Christian if that makes sense.

Like there's no.

You might be ignorant, but if you keep holding on to it, it's just gonna lead like you said heresy upon heresy.

Eventually, you're gonna just deny the faith.

You're gonna say Oh Jesus isn't God.

You never created the world he didn't write the Bible you that's eventually where this thing is gonna take you.

I would.

I would.

It's literally a danger that I would warn young men against if they start flirting with it or start listening to

guys who?

Just like full preterism same type of thing.

I would.

I'd be warning against that stuff.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, so come on in truth defenders.

Come on in.

So mad I missed the beginning.

How was this state when you guys did your 20 minutes back and forth.

How was it?

Was it pretty?

You know chill civil.

It didn't really get kind of to be honest.

He started off by reading a statement.

He was insulting and condescending right away.

I see what so I didn't see that.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then he accused me of being a liar.

No, and and I'm like what then he said this is what Matt thinks of a like what he did this several

times.

And then he was called poisoning in the well.

Matt's gonna say this and then that's why it's not true.

And it's what so and they said Matt's gonna cause do the fallacy of poisoning in the well, and yet he was doing that.

Well, I did I to tell Marlon it could you tell him does not insult me.

But it was ridiculous and I just decided at one point I said, you know what I'm not gonna let this guy Even look like

he's winning.

I'm just gonna I'm gonna just make sure he just looks bad.

Get on him and I'm gonna ask questions, I'm gonna just hold his feet to the fire and I did and He he blew it.

He just looked bad and You know, so so much for that stinking heresy of open theism.

Did you hear Marlon at the end of the show Matt?

I don't care about Marlon.

Well, he was sure defending you and he kicked somebody out and banned him.

Oh, he did, okay, well, that's a good guy.

Yeah, he's a good guy.

Yeah, that guy I mean he said some messed up stuff basically towards you and your

situation cuz uh.

You know, I mean when you talked about you know about your son and stuff.

I mean, you know that really you know that made me feel very strongly like.

You know, I definitely have sympathy for you.

Even though obviously I'm not like a big fan of your doctrine and you know, I'm definitely more towards like, you know.

Like in a Baptist, so, you know, I would definitely tell you that like that your child was not guilty.

Not a sinner.

Why was it affected by sin?

Why did sin come upon him and the fall and his is deformity but it was a birth defect.

Why would that be.

The only thing they could say is that it happened to my wife or my seed?

In the combo and then he was affected by that.

But if that's the case Then we get into headship which made his sins transferred down and effective.

It goes down and so there's no way out of this and so.

You know, it's a it's a serious issue.

I mean, I can see where you're coming from but like I mean.

Do you believe that like an infant has its own personal sins or is it just well guilty of Adam's sin?

Guilty of Adam's sin.

For sure, but you see there's there's some debate about this.

What does it mean?

I personally believe that all babies that die go to heaven.

I.

Don't believe that.

Yeah, I don't believe that way.

Oh, you know, I believe they have sin.

Because you're here to think about this.

The right thing to do is worship and praise God.

Our babies doing that well, no.

So are they sinning?

It's kind of hard to say they are because well, they really can't do that.

But then again, you go to Psalm 22 verse 9 where it says God did make me believe why my mother's breast.

Yes, so he does that to the babies.

Mm -hmm.

Okay, so You see, it's just not that easy to say this and then you go to 1st Corinthians 15 22

in Adam all die and then Ephesians 2 11 to 3 We are all

by nature.

We were children of wrath.

That's our nature.

We're born that way.

Romans 5 19 says through the sin of the one the many were made sinners.

Were made sinners is a risk passive indicative in the Greek.

That's important because it means that We were made sinners by what Adam did that's

what it's saying and So when I show this to people and I go, what do you do with this?

Most people just deny the scriptures.

But I see that's what it says.

And so for someone to say babies are born innocent is Problematic because of all of this

we might be able to say that they didn't don't have any actual sin they've committed.

But we could not say they did not have any fallen nature or sinfulness.

Because they were in Adam and Adam and the sin of the one everybody went here.

Let me put the verse in.

I'm gonna put the verse and I'll teach a little bit here.

Okay?

So when I talk like this people what they'll often do is just stop listening after one statement.

No, no, hear it out.

Hear me out, but they don't want to do that.

But look in the text here.

All right.

This is what Romans 5 19 says for as through the One man's disobedience as Adam sinned

the many were made sinners.

Even so through the obedience of the one the many will be made righteous.

What's interesting about this?

I could teach on this for a while.

Is that in this area of Scripture Paul does this weird thing?

Where he uses the same word or phrase to mean two different things in the same sentences.

He does this like I'll I'll go to Romans 5 18 and show it to you and then I'll go back to Romans 5 19 just To show you

this is what's happening Romans 5 18.

I know this verse very very well as through one transgression There resulted condemnation to

all men even so through one act of righteousness the result of justification of life to all men.

All men the first all men is everybody who ever lived.

They're sinful except for Jesus, of course, and the second one that all men is justified.

But that's only the believers.

So Paul does this he does it elsewhere there.

So what I'm trying to show is that Don't just go.

I tell people don't just go that's what it means.

You can see and then you're done.

You're done thinking don't do that.

Look at what it says.

And so you go to verse 19 For as through one man's disobedience,

that's Adam sin the many Were made sinners.

Well, who's the many?

That's everybody except Jesus, of course.

Remained sinners even so through the impedance of the one The many will be made

righteous.

Does that mean everybody?

No, because in Mark 3 29 Matthew 25 46 Revelation 14 11

2010 people go to hell I'll show you something else to watch this.

I'm gonna show you said hey, I'm gonna use you Jacob as a astounding board.

I'm gonna try and trick you without tricking you you okay?

All right, you ready?

Would you agree with me?

That whenever the Bible says that anybody has died to sin.

It's a believer Died to themselves.

It's a believer died with Christ.

It's a believer not unbelievers, right.

Yeah, it's not unbelievers.

Okay good.

I would agree with you second Corinthians 514.

I'm gonna paste it in here.

Check this out.

This verse is really interesting.

It says this For the love of Christ controls us having concluded this that one

died for all therefore all died.

Well, whoa.

Whoa.

Whoa, who's the all who died?

Believe.

The believers so if we say the believers would say he died for the believers there for the believers died.

That makes sense.

If we say he died for the unbelievers, therefore the unbelievers died it makes no sense.

Hmm when you start looking at what things say what the Bible says too many people like these open theist

guys.

They stop thinking.

It's just right there.

It's just right there that God had to learn.

It just means he learned that's all it means.

Can be anything else?

They stopped their thinking.

Well, what do you do let's just work with that position so God doesn't know their hearts he has to learn what's in their hearts.

Well, wait a minute that open Thea says that God's in the heart.

So will he know their hearts?

Well, yeah when I asked the questions nobody answered it because they see a logical contradiction in their

position.

They didn't kitten answer it because they can't because their positions Unbiblical so okay.

So God there's a two million Jews and God's got to test them.

To find out what's in their heart, but on the other hand the open theist will say God knows everything in the present exhaustively.

That must mean he knows their hearts.

Well, you can't have it both ways now.

Can you you can't have it that he knows all their hearts yet has to find out what's in their hearts by testing them.

It makes no sense.

And when you ask them the question they stop thinking again.

They go off someplace else like I'd like this guy did tonight just off of different direction.

So and what he said, I you know, well God doesn't that wasn't in her heart or something like that.

Oh.

Well, then I had to ask what is he everywhere?

And notice what he did.

He avoided that question.

Is he everywhere?

Well not in the believers heart.

So I forgot what exactly what he said not trying to misrepresent him.

But the implication was no, he's not everywhere.

Oh.

So then if he's not everywhere, is there another God out there if he's

not everywhere.

Are people existing someplace?

He doesn't know about.

If he's not everywhere, then how could he know the hearts of individuals as open to you say?

If he's not everywhere, is he it's just they don't think because they have a stupid false

God philosophy.

Now because of this discussion tonight, I am more convinced that open theism is a

serious heresy.

And I'm not gonna say all open theists aren't Christians, but I'm gonna say this that man I'll tell you they got one foot

in the pit.

I Don't know if they're they're saved or not saved, but this is a serious issue.

Serious serious serious issue.

You know Matt.

Did they did they deny?

Original sin.

Did they say there's it appears to be?

They there's a lot Muslims deny original sin, too.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

But it appears that this guy did and he's Pelagian that babies don't have any sin.

What?

It's just humanistic philosophy.

Yeah.

Hey Fred Beal.

Come on, buddy.

Get in there.

I'm being out.

Hear me.

Hey, Matt, hey, I talked to you sometimes on the big screen.

My name's cornbread Fred.

Oh Hey, hey my buddy.

How you doing, man?

What's up?

What kind of thing do you have?

Yeah, you have the quest to.

Yeah, I have the same one.

Yeah, I'm gonna get.

I want a three because it's better, but I want I'll get one later.

I don't yeah.

Anyway, I just want to say I Think his biggest problem is

He's unable to harmonize the text, you know.

Yeah, he almost has to yes to abandon any text that you bring up with the guy that shows that God is

all -knowing or that he's all -powerful or that he has a You know that

He's in control of everything.

He just goes back to these.

These texts that seem to limit God.

I'm the I'm actually the one that asked that question at the end about Calvin's view of accommodation and condescension.

It's.

It's it's it's not really a problem once you realize that man and God are a wholly distinct from each other and

wholly distinct in such a way that that for us to even.

For.

Us to even obtain any knowledge about God God has to Condescend to us.

God has to speak to us almost as children or as babies.

He has to Accommodate his language so we can comprehend it.

That's what's going on.

So he's taking all these texts that talk about theology from below us trying to understand God from down here

being limited human beings.

Yeah, and he's trying to elevate that from to theology from above trying to elevate to the transcendent realm instead of it.

Where it meant to be meant to be down here in the imminent realm.

And anytime you point to a text that is Transcendent that is talking about God as God in and of

himself.

He has to ignore it because he's.

Even went so far as to mock it and say oh, well God's gotta reduce himself that baby talk, you know.

That is harmonization.

What do you do when you have text to say God's all -knowing and then you have God speaking to us over here

in a limited way.

Obviously, he's speaking to us in a limited way because we are not transcendent.

We are not divine.

So he has to speak to us as creatures.

Right, but he's unable to do that because he's unable to harmonize the text.

He's he's completely ignoring all the texts that Matt brought up that speak of God as God himself.

And a couple of his a couple of his buddies jumped on the fact that Matt said the ultimate Anthropomorphism

is Jesus Christ himself and they mocked that to high heaven when the scripture says it is

Jesus.

Who.

The actual word is exegetes.

Okay, no man has seen God the Son has revealed him.

It's the word exegete.

He's brought him out.

Yep.

It's the it's the very thing.

They should not be mocking.

Well.

That's what I get you for.

I want to say because before I get too far off what Fred said.

You talked about God being Holy.

Other get this.

This is what he is.

My opponent said in the article.

What is open theism.

And He said in the comment section.

He's talking to somebody.

Yes, and he said.

Quote.

The Bible describes God as personal and relational.

God is not immutable or holy.

Other.

Yeah, Wow, and that's.

That's the root of all heresy.

All heresy seeks to bring God down to man and elevate man up to God.

That's essential of Mormonism is I'm not saying he's Mormon, but that's the Mormonism is at its root.

It's bringing God down to man.

He's a literal man.

He's been exalted to Godhood, but he's a man and bringing man up to Godhood.

I can be exalted and that's exactly what he's doing.

He's limiting God so the transcendent God is bringing him down and making him only eminent.

Which means well because now we're on the same level as God.

He's not other we are the same.

We are essentially the same being.

He's spiritual and I'm physical.

We're the same.

Well what I said in my thing was my opening statement.

I said ultimately I said it someplace ultimately because of man's man's freedom.

Therefore God's sovereignty depends in part on man's sovereignty.

And so this is this is the basis.

I believe that they have a man -centered theology because man's will has to be free.

Therefore God can't everything else.

It's a humanistic philosophy and he doesn't even see it and I and it was annoying, you know, he's kept saying well

It's just Platonism.

It's Platonism.

This is philosophy.

It's like dude.

You don't even know what Platonism is you don't even know what free will is.

Yeah, and Fred did you hear what he said about Jesus and the two natures and that

the human nature became the divine nature?

No, here's the thing to two things these guys always say they always use the philosophy attack against

real Christians.

You know guys who are defending the truth the heretics always use the philosophy tactic.

You're just spitting out philosophy.

You're just spitting out philosophy.

It's over and over like that and then another thing is this is basic systematic theology.

If you study systematic theology I mean all this is included in that and it's like they don't go to that at all.

They just go to whatever guy they're following at the time and what they're saying and they might sound smart.

They follow man instead of just the organized Systematic theology the theology of the Bible

theology proper.

They're just they're going to whatever someone is saying who they think might be smarter than them.

Instead of just going to what we've known for 2 ,000 years, you know, which is Christianity

so I mean that's really what it I kept saying that I'm like.

This is just basics the anthropomorphic that Sean Griffin guy gets hung up with that.

He says everything's literal and this guy got hung up with you said condescension, right?

Well me for condescension, right?

Ascension.

This is I mean this goes back to I mean.

This is scriptural but but Van Till talks about this a lot that the creature the creator creature distinction God is

transcendent and we are eminent.

So how do we get to the transcendent?

How do we get in touch with God?

The only way is for God to come to us.

That's why the incarnation is necessary.

That's Hebrews 2, right?

Yeah.

Hey, well Matt, I'm glad you don't believe in infant damnation.

But is a can I just ask you about like what I was talking about in the chat real quick.

Sure.

Yeah, so, um, I like are you familiar with like like Lorraine Bonner?

Lorraine Bettner.

Yes.

Yeah, Bettner.

That's what I'm gonna say.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, like have you heard the quote that says um, a man is not saved because he believes in Jesus.

He believed.

No, sorry.

Sorry a man is not saved because he believes in Jesus.

He believes in Jesus because he is saved.

Yes.

Yes, but there's a little bit of explanation that needs to go in there, okay, and so

I'm gonna introduce you to Logical versus temporal priority.

Okay.

I don't if you've heard me talk about this.

So I'm gonna use an exaggeration of a light bulb.

So lot of temporal priority flip the switch five seconds later light comes

on in.

The light bulb.

Okay, so we know it's instantaneous, but this is an illustration.

So this is called temporal priority.

There's a cause there's this period of time later and then there's an event.

That's called temporal priority.

So in this case electricity is the cause of light.

Temporally in that there's a distance between them and as far as cause and effect.

Time.

I just use five seconds as an example.

Now there's a problem here.

Because let's just say that Regeneration and believing regeneration and faith.

Let's just say that you're regenerate for five seconds before you believe because the

standard view of Christianity today, they haven't done their deep thinking on this

is that.

That you believe if regeneration precedes faith or faith proceeds regeneration.

I'll work with both.

So if regeneration precedes faith five seconds later you believe then you have a Regenerate

person who's not a believer for a period of time.

That's problematic.

So let's just reverse it.

So five you're you believe first and then five seconds later you become regenerate.

Now you have a believer who's not regenerate for a period of time and that's that's problematic.

So this is just illustrating the problem with temporal priority.

Now, let's look at logical priority.

Flip a switch electricity goes in to the bulb and both are in the bulb simultaneously

electricity and light now.

Technically speaking.

There's a few super micro milliseconds difference.

But the illustration here is that they go in there they occur at the same time.

Now what we would say is that someone's typing, okay.

You know, I'm autistic and I have yeah, okay and.

So what we say is that in logical priority the electricity and the light are

simultaneous.

But it's the electricity that causes the light.

It's not the light that causes the electricity, but they're both happen at the same time.

So in reformed theology regeneration is logically prior to faith.

So he regenerates you and you believe but you freely believe.

But occurs at the same time with regeneration, so there's no problem.

So do you actually believe?

Yes.

Does God regenerate you?

Yes.

That's what the difference is.

I forgot what the question was, but that's important.

Okay, so.

Wait, I'm kind of confused like is there a point in which like a man believes or no.

Sorry, is there a point in which I mean because regeneration is synonymous with born -again, right?

Yes, I would say at this point.

Yes.

Okay, so is there a point in time where a man is regenerated and born again.

Yet, he's still not saved because you know, he's okay.

So you said it only logically Precedes it but temporally it does happen at

the same time.

Yes.

Now, let me mess you up even more.

Okay in Colossians 2 14 It says let me do this back up to Ephesians

1 4.

He the father chose us the elect in him Jesus before the foundation of the world.

So the election of individuals in Christ is before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1 4.

Jesus says in John 6 37 that he came to do the will the father.

I mean John 6 38, but in 37, he says all that the father gives me will come to me.

They're chosen by the father given to the Son.

In Colossians 2 14 you got to pay attention to this.

Okay Colossians 2 14 It says Jesus cancelled out the certificate of debt the sin debt

having knelt to the cross.

He cancelled it out at the at the cross.

The sin that is not cancelled when you believe.

Did you get that Jacob?

Yeah.

It's not cancelled when you believe.

The efficacy of the cross is not made powerful by what you do.

It's made powerful by what God did.

So the the necessity here is that Jesus cancelled the sin that at the cross.

Who'd he cancelled for?

Everybody if that's the case everybody has to go to heaven because there's no sin debt anymore.

It's at anybody.

That makes no sense.

So what we have to say is that the all is limited just like I showed you.

Remember earlier showed you how the word all is limited, right?

So God Has elected people to salvation.

Christ came to redeem them.

He bore their sin in his body of the cross first.

Peter 2 24 and That's when it's in debt of the of the elect is cancelled

then God Infallibly brings him into belief acts 1348 as many as had been

appointed to eternal life believed.

And it says that you're born again.

Not of your own will.

John 1 13 and it says enrollment in Philippians 1 29.

It says that God grants that you believe.

So if people want to say well, I can believe I'm own free Will the unbelievers just their own free will.

If that's the case, then why is it that God must grant individuals belief?

You cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father.

Jesus says John 665.

So Jesus came to redeem them.

So let me put it together.

God elected people in the Trinity in the Trinitarian Communion.

God elected people to save gave them to the Sun.

The Sun became one of us redeemed them and bore their sin debt.

Died in the cross rose from the dead later.

God grants that you have faith and that's when you're justified.

That's when you're cleansed of your sins.

That's you when you're born again.

Okay, God sovereign.

Yeah, do you still have like some kind of understanding about like, you know, the people can like freely

come to him?

Like I mean, I think there's there's a So I can't remember

Sorry like revelation where it says, um, like anyone who is a thirst like come to him and stuff like that.

Sorry, I was distracted by Thurston who said spooky action at a distance Which is what Einstein said about quantum

entanglement, but I just thought it was funny.

Sorry, so I was distracted because it was a witty comment and I had to respond to it.

So I say it again Jacob I'm sorry.

Oh, we'd lose him.

Oh, I guess he hit.

We lost him.

Okay.

So in a word, what would you guys say the debate was like one word?

You can use hyphenated words.

You can use a hyphenated words.

I can use hyphenated words.

Let me just to one word or two as a hyphenation, how about

heresy.

Heresy, that's right.

That's right.

Dumpster fire is what I'm thinking.

I was thinking unfortunately educational.

Educational.

Can I can I do combustible.

I would say his view was what we would call stupefication.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I just wanted you still have like some kind of like understanding of um.

You know like people like still freely coming to him like I think there's a version of Revelation that says like anyone who is a

Thirst, you know come come to him.

You know I'm saying.

Yeah, those are in in Revelation.

He's talking to the seven churches and I've been to each of the seven church locations

In Turkey, and so he's talking to them generically just to add any angels that are there.

Whoever's there.

Whoever's thirsty come.

Okay, whoever.

Well, does that mean everyone can?

Now here's a question like in John 3 16 God's love the world He gave his only begotten Son that whoever would believe in him would not perish.

All right.

Well, first of all, the word whoever is not in the Greek.

That's the Greek word hosts.

It's not there.

What is there is pass hop is to own all the believing one.

We don't talk like that.

So they say whoever and that's good enough.

So let's just okay.

Whoever believes people will say what that means is you have the free will choice inside of your sinfulness to

be able to believe.

I'm going to say that.

We're gonna say that.

They're reading into the text.

I would ask well, why do they believe because it's their free will choice.

Then why does the Bible say that the unbeliever cannot receive the things of God?

But they're foolishness to him first Corinthians 2 14 if they can just come with their own free Will then why does Jesus say

that to you you can only come to me if it's granted you for the father.

So the idea of whoever just means anybody who has a free will choice doesn't work.

So we have to ask who are they?

Whoever who come to Christ?

They're the ones granted repentance second tibetan 225.

Granted faith Philippians 129 and granted to come to Christ John 6 20.

John 6 65.

Whoever believes well, why are they believing see look

if I have a deck of cards.

And.

There's 52 people 52 cards and I take and I mark five cards with an X

Buffalo.

Pass them out to individuals and I say whoever has the X can come with me in the in

the private jet for the trip To the Bahamas.

Well, that means they have the free will choice, doesn't it?

No, whoever is the one who has that can do it.

Whoever believes is what who does it because God grants that they believe you see.

Okay, well, let me ask just one more question, um, let's see in an

act 17.

Yeah.

Where's that part of accident.

In act 17, it says that um, the God is now commanding all men everywhere to repent

Act 17 30.

Yeah, do you believe that?

When he says he's commanding all men everywhere to repent.

Is that is that he's commanding just the elect to repent or.

Everyone that's a good question.

So here's the I'm gonna trick you a little bit again.

What God ever tells someone to do something?

They can't do.

I want to say no, but I mean, you know.

Might be missing something, you know.

Because you know, I'm talking to you.

So you're now you're suspicious.

Yeah, and that's a smart move.

You should be suspicious.

Okay, so Be holy for I am holy First Peter 1

16.

Can we be holy?

Well, I mean, I think people are called holy like all there's holy brethren.

No, no.

Be holy.

Yeah, they could be called holy In a sense that they're doing human level good stuff,

but this is a comparison to God's nature be holy for I'm holy.

Yeah, the standard now is God.

So the answer is well, no.

Well, how about Matthew 5 42 through 48 where God causes the Sun to rise on the good and the bad?

All right.

Okay, perfect.

Be perfect is your father in heaven is perfect.

Can you be perfect?

No.

So yes, God will and I'll give you a reason why God will Ask you to do

things that you can't do keep looking to say well, that's not fair.

And I'm gonna say to them That what you're doing is you're saying God will only do

and allow what you can do.

The standard is you you and your freedom not God's nature.

Who's the standard?

God.

So he will require that you'd be perfect.

And you can't and he knows it.

So Jesus does it for you?

You require you be holy.

But you can't he never negates the standard.

He doesn't lower the standard for us.

This is humanist philosophy that does this that's what these guys do in open theism.

They're humanist philosophers who lowered God's standard to their own level.

They exalt themselves or pagans.

It's paganism.

All right, it's Christian humanism, so Yes, God will require

things that you cannot do because he's a standard now.

Let me ask you another trick ish question.

Is this what you say free will is?

You have two choices good and bad.

You can do good.

You can do bad.

No one's forcing you to do either one and There's no forcing just whatever you have an equal option and you can

choose to do either one and you choose to do good.

Or you could choose it too bad.

That's what free will is.

Would you agree?

Yeah.

All right.

Now the reason that's a problem is because it means that God doesn't have free will.

What I just did was try and illustrate that what people will automatically do is judge truth based on their

themselves.

We all do it.

Okay.

I'm just exposing it.

Of course is what it means to be able to do good and bad.

Well, then that's a definition of free will then God doesn't have free will because he can't choose between good and bad.

And he can do either one.

He can only do what's good.

So I try and show people you just committed Christian humanistic philosophical assumptions.

I'm not saying oh, you're a pagan.

You're stupid.

I say, you know, we just have to get out of this.

So what we want to do is define free will related to God.

So free will is the ability to make a choice.

It's not force that's consistent with your nature.

God's holy.

He'll only choose holy things.

What I'm trying to show is the illustration that what people often do is.

They judge truth based upon themselves.

Ultimately, this is idolatry.

The reason it's ultimately idolatry is because God is a standard of holiness righteousness purity

truth not us.

And so what this heretic did tonight, I'm gonna show it to you what this heretic did

tonight.

And yes, he is a flaming heretic because what he said

was.

Let's see.

You'll find it.

Where he said come on.

Hold on a second where he said this.

I'm losing the flow.

Abraham.

Okay, God adopts Abraham's higher standard.

That is blasphemy.

Because what that is saying that blasphemous piece of crap from hell that that teaching it is what he's saying here

is.

That God is now no longer the ultimate standard of truth and righteousness.

But now God adopts a higher standard of morality.

That's what he was saying.

It's foolishness or God will often do things against his better judgment.

But now we don't have the God of the Bible who's supreme who knows all things who never makes mistakes.

We have a God who goofs a God who goes?

Oh my goodness plan B plan C plan D who adopts a better moral standard in his own thought.

This is ass an entity and it's friggin heresy.

This guy's a heretic and I had to call him out on it.

You're a heretic.

And he is a heretic for teaching this stuff.

They said they drink they said they drink every time you say that when you call someone a heretic.

That's when they take a drink and they need to drink because.

That's what the Bible is.

The Bible tells them.

It tells them that this is not the standard.

They are they're they're asinine heretics who want to mock the idea of God's

greatness and sovereignty.

Then when I point out take a drink Mocking we will drink by those.

That's exactly do it when God is as proposed as promoted as being Profoundly

holy and that we can't rely but something take a drink.

They are gluttonous Stupidifiers.

They want their own heresy.

I want to stuff themselves with heresies and man -mattered man Man -centered philosophies

and then say but you're the philosopher.

We read God.

We read the scripture plainly really.

Really do you.

You know, that is funny.

Isn't there a Proverbs that says talks about let us drink. Let us be married.

Isn't there a Proverbs like yeah.

Yeah, and it's funny.

They were the epitome of that tonight.

But they're good thing.

That's so.

Isn't it so weird when you see things like in actuality that are in the scriptures like that.

Oh, yeah, and you got it also.

Notice what he did by poisoning the well you see.

He opened up which I would.

I couldn't believe some of the things he said and in fact, let me get back to it.

Let's see.

Where's his opening statement?

I?

Don't know good.

That's all right.

Yeah, so here we go.

Chris attacked my Calvinism and showed me he doesn't know it very well, but our debate is not about Calvinist.

He was condescending.

He tried to poison the well accused me of it yet.

He was doing it.

Accused me of Platonism, but he didn't even know what that was.

He said I lied when speaking to Duffy.

He said I'm a Platonist that comes from plate Plato's work.

Like I said, it doesn't even know.

I would have hoped that he would have presented his texts and he did a little bit but.

Not really and I he asked the listeners to be careful about what I say.

Okay, and he's begging the question fallacy.

He actually said to the lizard not be careful what he says.

It's like dude stick with the argument, you know, I think Marlon should have said dude don't don't sit don't talk like

that you know, but.

It's ridiculous.

He also accused you of deceiving by way of bait -and -switch.

Yeah, that's right.

That's just that's yeah.

Yeah.

There you go.

Matt.

Would you can.

Would you even consider.

Would you consider yourself a classical theist?

Yes in that sense.

Yeah.

Okay in that sense but not like more like some of the scholarly guys like way out there I

don't know because.

There are there's a variety of meaning in that.

So I would say go to my statement of faith read that and that's what I will.

Because I was just saying that because I think those scholarly guys I think you could probably accuse them of Platonism at

times more so than you know, what Platonism is.

It's definitely just the teachings of Plato is it not.

Yeah, what did Plato teach?

Yeah.

There's a realm of Platonic ideas out there and that you have to get in contact with

the realm of Platonic ideas.

And it deals with the issue of the one in the many Platonic suffice.

I wasn't talking Platonism.

It has to do with the nature of truth and how you perceive things based upon Abstract objects

which exist out there and we come in contact with them and then how that works out in the real world.

That's Platonism.

Look it up.

Wait, wait.

Wait.

Wait, uh, what Platonism would it affirm the one or the many?

That's the well, they probably would refer the one I don't know.

I'm not a scholar in that but that's basically what Platonism is and does.

He just didn't know.

Yeah, I think they just use it as an insult against you basically, you know.

Yeah, it's a it's a rug.

They sweep everything under Platonism philosophy, I don't care what your thinking is I don't care what your logic is.

I'm just gonna dismiss it automatically.

I'm not gonna examine what you say because I have a big Platonist philosophy rug.

Whatever you say, I'll just sweep underneath the rug.

See I made it go away.

That's what they're doing.

Yeah, they take that verse.

What's the verse where Paul says?

Don't let philosophy captivate you.

They take that version is too late.

I'm gonna go check my way.

I'll keep talking.

Yeah.

Yeah, they rip it out of context and then they attach it to anyone that disagrees with them

especially especially Trinitarians.

For some reason they think all the Trinitarians.

Yeah, when he started when he started saying Matt was being platonic I thought that was hilarious because

Obviously, there's no Matt slick like Matt slicks a presupposition unless you can't be a platonic presupposition

unless it's a contradiction in terms.

But yeah, the Platonism would side with the one over the many.

That's the whole the whole idea of Plato is That what's really real

are those ideal forms out there so the ideals what's real the everything down here is

just.

And as an example of what that real thing is so if so the idea of

Chairness is what's really real the concept of chairness is real this specific chair.

This isn't what the real what's real is the idea of chairness, so it's the unit unifying principles of

reality.

That's that's Plato.

Aristotle's the opposite.

Aristotle says what's really real is this specific chair this this chair?

That's black this chair that has wheels this chair that can hold my fat body on it.

You know these accidents are what's really real, but the concept.

That's that's just that's abstraction.

What's amazing about the Christian worldview is the Christian worldview says both of you are wrong.

It's neither one nor the many.

What is ultimate is God who is one and many he is one and three and his oneness

is not more ultimate than his Threeness and his threeness is not more ultimate than his oneness.

So the largest problem in the history of philosophy the only world view that actually answers that problem is Trinitarian

Christianity.

Absolutely.

Well, we'll see now when you explain it.

It's so much easier to understand when this this other guy Matt slick explains it.

Right.

Matt touches on likeness.

I'm in that article I just posted what is reality and he goes through some of these ideas and that's one of

them.

It gives a little capsule of what it is.

No, I I was just joking.

I think it's just you have to hear it so many times you do yeah.

No Fred was clearer than I was.

Yeah the ultimate nature of thing is the one.

That's what truth is.

But that's a problem because then you have everything being one substance and then how do you have distinction between objects?

And then you don't have coherence and you have truth values and it's really a problem.

Aristotle with the other way.

No, what is real is it is the things that we sit in in touch?

But if that's the case and how do you have unification between those objects?

This isn't this isn't just an abstraction this isn't just an abstract thought thought experiment.

This is actually applicable in life, so you actually cannot do anything in life without having a

Foundation on this concept.

So for example logic itself.

Demands this right?

What is logic?

Yes logic.

I'm liking you.

Go ahead Matt.

We talk all the time on big screen.

No, it's.

I don't look like my avatar in there anyway.

Logic itself is what it's.

Universal formulations.

All A's or B's.

Right.

Universal formulas and.

Also.

Specific application all men are mortal.

So how do you have logic?

If you don't have both a justification for universal formulation all A's or B's and

Particular application of those formulations all men are mortal.

Any world of you that sighs with the one has no justification for Application.

Any world view that sighs with the many has no app like no justification for formulation ultimate universal

formulation.

Trinitarianism is the only way out of this dilemma.

So you don't have logic if you don't have the Trinity.

All right, so that's why it's.

It's it's necessary same thing with with ethics, right?

You can't you can't believe in an ultimate unity and believe in ethics.

What's ethics good and bad?

Where's where's bad come from in a universe?

That's Purely unified so, you know things like this the doctrine the Trinity is

absolutely necessary not just textually, which of course it is but Logically like to even function in this

world.

You have to be a Trinitarian.

That's why Paul in Romans 1 says you you deny.

But that you're suppressing the truth of God and unrighteousness, you know.

This God you have to go to function in this world because it's a Trinitarian world.

Amen.

Hey Matt, it's good talking to you.

And I'm a nice talk to you.

Yeah, maybe sometime.

I'll come back on press you a little bit more.

Maybe beat you on infant baptism.

Sure, no problem.

But yeah, it's good.

That's being you too, man.

God bless.

Wait.

While he was talking really quickly.

I put a thing in there.

I would like to have a debate with an open theist on this topic.

Can the God of open theism provide the necessary preconditions for intelligibility.

That would be a good debate.

That would be interesting and that was my next question.

If you had.

Well, this is my next thought.

If you had no Trinity you have no creation, correct?

You have no what.

If there is no Trinity there is no creation.

Well, yes.

Necessarily so because only God created and God's a Trinity so without the Trinity God couldn't create right?

I mean wouldn't exist, right?

Yeah, I throw something in there.

You wouldn't have creation the way you have it right now for sure.

Logically speaking.

Logically speaking, but also just the way that we are what what we're the the scripture said that we are made in the Image

of God.

What does that mean?

We're doing the image of God.

It means that that we're we are expressions of his very nature, right?

We share some of his divine attributes, but what are called communicable attributes and systematic theology.

So we share some of his attributes, right?

One of the attributes that we share is love.

And what is love to a God?

That is a single monadic deity, right?

The God of Islam the God of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

This God who is a single person who for eternity has has loved no one except for

himself.

How does he how does he how does he create a A necessarily

Creation that that needs community.

All right.

The only reason that we are communal beings and that we seek love and we seek relationships is because our God is

an eternal relationship in and of himself God that's a single person.

He doesn't when the God that's a single person creates He's creating so he can love

someone else.

He's never loved someone else for all eternity, right?

Only the triune God actually is a community in and of himself.

That's another thing.

I didn't bring out.

There's so many things that this guy said it was so bad.

That that I mean I read from what he said and some comments.

That God's greatest need is love or something like this.

He desperately wants you to come to him.

It's like this is all stupidity.

It's all stupidity.

Okay, Fred.

What's your name in the big screen again?

Cornbread Fred.

Cornbread Fred.

Okay, which is the best name?

What you know what mine is.

People are asking if you have a channel Fred.

Oh, no, I don't.

I I preach at a local church and I write.

Did you say that.

Did.

Did you say corn fed or cornbread.

Fred on a cordon bread.

Okay.

All right.

Are you a pastor?

Um.

Not yet, but.

Well, we're non -denominational but we we're I mean we practice infant baptism.

So we're Presbyterian.

Ish, but we have a Presbyterian that makes sense.

Yeah, I understand you're saying I'm glad your Presbyterian that did now I'm just curious cessationist or continuationist

or.

Modificationist III.

John frame.

I think I'm more of a soft cessationist.

Okay.

Yeah, you know and you know John was my professor, right?

I know.

Yeah, okay, and I have to read his.

I have to read his book for my class.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah, what's that John frame apologetics?

Yeah.

You know, he goes to church like 20 minutes for me.

I'm gonna visit one Sunday so I can go.

Yeah.

He won't be what you expect.

Um, yeah, I kind of figured that he seems like a well I'm listening to a podcast where he did an interview and he seems like a jolly

nice Guy and I can just imagine like all his stuff is in his writings, but in person

he's just like this soft.

Kind of he is.

Extremely intelligent and it's hidden behind his humility.

You have to dig it out of him and.

But we he would go in class.

He'd rock back and forth while he's teaching and He's brilliance.

You never know how smart he is.

Until you really spend time with him and you realize this guy really knows his stuff and he really does.

But you just go see him before because he's old.

He's getting up there.

Wife passed away, but go see him just and they say Matt Slick says hi cuz here and he'll remember me.

I did that to.

Who is that?

Dr. Godfrey I said.

He looked at me and he goes Oh Matt, I remember him you chasing the Jehovah's Witnesses down the

street.

Yeah.

Yeah back in seminary we actually had a professor tell me we're talking someplace.

He goes, you know, we don't know what to do with you.

You know, he says because you come into class late for at lunch.

Yeah, because I'm talking to Mormons joy he goes that's exactly it.

We can't dock you because you're doing the work of the Lord.

But you should be in class.

But what we can do.

And I said you're causing his problems.

That's a good problem.

No.

Yeah, anyway, but yeah the debate was a dumpster fire for him and it was

it she.

He did badly.

It was really bad.

It was you know what one of the things was.

You know, it kind of disheartened me a lot of the times in the online debates.

It's it just gets a little crazy even if the guy is way off or not but but the fact

of the matter was the the mocking and the laughing and I mean that the vitriol they

just me.

Yeah, and well in the chat and just the way when you're talking.

He's just always smiling and you know what?

I remember the last time he had a discussion.

They were saying well, he just smiles or someone told me that.

They made a comment that this guy smiles when he gets nervous.

But it didn't happen.

I know a guy who laughs when he gets injured.

Well, okay, maybe it could happen.

I mean.

But still the way he was he was always laughing at.

He just it was.

Maybe the arrogance and the pride I was picking up on because he just thinks he's so right.

You know, but it could be it could have just been nervous.

I don't know.

And the other thing is people people quote Bible passages all the time without actually reading the

context, you know.

So right now in church, we're preaching through Hebrews right now and Sunday.

I have to deal with Hebrews 2 9.

So, you know, you have to talk about how Christ tasted death for everyone

and my Arminian friends bring that to me all the time.

Well Christ tasted death for everyone.

Don't you know and it's like can you can you reread the context?

Can we finish reading chapter 2, please?

You know Hebrews 2 17 says what he had to be made like his brothers in every way that he might

become a merciful high priest to make propitiation for the sins of the people and the

people in context are the children of God so a Lot of people

have this arrogant pride about them, but it's cuz like they'll go and they'll just quote one verse.

And they will ignore the context.

Well, it's self -evident what this means and that's all he's doing you think?

Oh, well, look God repented.

Obviously God can repent and it's like can we read the context here?

You know.

Can we can we can we look at the whole of Scripture and and see what what we're all about who God is and what God's character?

Is no use they just latch on these these little phrases and these one verse in these single verses and they don't

Test these passages and then they have this arrogance and if you if you approach the scriptures in a

Systematic way trying to look at everything as a whole.

Oh, you're a philosopher.

Yeah, did you like my comment about Homer system.

Homer Simpson full of theology?

Yeah, you covered that in things the open theist God would say.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I actually said there's a discussion that I said, yeah.

Homer Simpson theology where God goes.

You know before I left Marlon's room Matt I suggested three minutes so go ahead.

Yeah, I suggested people go to that link on what you wrote about Carms position on Calvinism.

I think they'll find it unusually charitable.

I mean they they have such a.

Raw.

Nerve for anything that mentions Calvinism.

Whereas you're very charitable in that article and heck you got me on your board of directors.

And I've never been a Calvinist don't claim to be never have claimed to be and you seem to get

along well with me.

So hey Charlie.

No.

44 years.

Yeah, I told him one day.

Well, no, I've never been a Calvinist.

He goes.

Oh really?

Oh, okay.

Didn't care.

They didn't know.

Can't make one comment about that real quick.

Yeah.

The not not not not against Charlie.

I don't mean this against Charlie, but I noticed that every single heresy every false system every cult.

They're never reformed.

There's no there's no Calvinist Colts out there right.

Jehovah's Witness Mormons the open theist the Christian scientists all these false religions.

They all assume synergism.

They all assume that man is yes Responsible for his own salvation at the end of the day and it's

and of course it that's that's the nature of cultists nature Of heresy is to raise man to

godhood and to in some way put yourself as a means of salvation, right?

So so that's why you can never have a Calvinistic cult because Calvinism is the one that's that's saying

no God's holy other.

He is he this is monergistic, right?

God alone saves God.

Who's going to save isn't glorify him by what means right that's Me that all these

holds all these false religions.

They all agree on one thing and that's that man's responsible for his own salvation at the end of the day.

Yeah.

I've never gone to the works of Calvin.

I've seen him quoted and other things I've read and I go to it to see if it's you know in

context.

But it's only when other people mention it that I take in.

What?

What comments Calvin had I.

Never been to his institutes or anything like that.

So, you know, maybe I'll.

Calvin's great.

Even if you don't believe in the doctrines of grace Calvin's great.

He's a great theologian.

Calvin actually, I think Calvin's biggest Contribution to the Christian faith is his Christology,

right?

It's it's Calvin that says Christ is Autotheos he is God in and of himself,

which is a rejection of tonalism, right.

Because The the Roman Catholics don't believe that Christ is autotheos.

They don't believe that he is all say and that's Calvin.

That's right.

Um, I.

Got to go cook for the family.

They're getting mad at me now, but it's been worth it.

I'll take their wrath.

Oh.

Well, I think it's something I forgot.

I got to get going anyway, too.

Spend time with the wife and she's doing because she's hurting and stuff like that, but I'll be

seeing you on.

Probably Monday history.

You go to a you go to a.

Not big screen, but there's the other one that's there.

It's a crap.

I.

Only go on big screen.

Much now I don't you on there anymore.

Okay.

Yeah, I want to get a better one of these because I'm on there enough.

Is there a way you can buy prescription lenses.

Where we're at?

You there's a for the new one.

The new it was like $1 ,100.

Oculus you can but this I don't know.

And.

So I don't know about that because the oculus scratched up my other lenses, so I gotta get a

stick man.

You gotta get LASIK.

Yeah, I'm scared of things going to my eyes.

No.

I'm the same way.

I can't do it like I can't I just can't do that.

I'm only working there two years later.

Totally worth it.

Maybe the quest three will solve the problem because they're supposed to have better optics.

So who so you just use it with glasses or are you far sighted?

I don't use any glasses.

Okay, so you're you're you're you're far sighted then or something.

No, I I need help everywhere.

No, I'm 67.

Thank you, these are progressives and when I go in there everything's a little bit blurry and you know what.

I just know that it's I can't I can't not use them.

All right.

Well, thank you guys for letting me in here.

It's been awesome.

See you man.

Yeah, it's been good.

It's fun.

They hope to see you and keep in contact Fred cuz you're a good guy to know and

Same contact.

All right, brother.

I'll bless everybody.

I see you guys.

You.