Israel and the Church, Fascists, the Voice of Reason Misrepresents History

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Took some time to consider what the Bible says about Israel and the Church in light of recent events, then looked at another "let's sneak some Nazi stuff into another White Boy Summer video" stuff, and finished off reviewing the claims of Alex Jurado about the background of our debate last year, sadly having to correct a lot of error and misinformation.

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You know, I visited New York City very often for years and going out and doing the great debate series with Chris Arnson and Had some great times there, you know visited the
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Empire State Building of course up the Twin Towers Saw Riverdance in New York City.
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That was very very enjoyable That's a lot of great pizza a lot of great pizza in in New York and out on the island as well
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But you know, it was crazy back then. I cannot imagine what it's like I was getting ready to start the program and I look over and here's a story and video of a bunch of teenagers in Queens Kidnapping a swan running down the street with a swan in his arm
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Three of the four have been arrested found lots of swan feathers in the car, but not a swan
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Evidently, it's a mother of little swans that who knows what's gonna happen to them now and You know, okay, that's you know dumb stuff
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But if you want really dumb stuff elect a
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Shiite communist As mayor of New York because that's what that's what just happened a
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On the Democratic side Cuomo, why didn't you run somebody who doesn't have that background but Cuomo loses to a guy who is
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I'm gonna run a scan now To a guy I I can't explain this and no one else can either
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Who is rabidly LGBTQ plus Supportive friendly we're gonna spend all this money and that the money they don't have and he's a
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Shiite Muslim It's pretty obvious to me. The Shiite part is just window dressing it's
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It's a uniform. It's a costume Whatever you want to call it. It can't have any meaningful connection to worldview policy decisions stuff like that and The only way that can work is is if you you've got a really strong Conviction that the people who are going to be voting in the election
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Are just really stupid Uneducated low IQ low
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IQ voters low information voters they Voters who vote on the basis of emotion not on the basis of consistency not on the basis of well
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This person promises X what their entire worldview is why? So they could never actually follow through on the promises of X and so I won't vote for them.
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Nope doesn't matter Oh minority different religion. Cool. Great. Wonderful.
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We'll vote for him doesn't matter whether You know The the city will become completely unmanageable and overrun
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I mean To be honest with you, you know, the election isn't yet The final election isn't yet.
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There's only there's only one hope whatsoever for New York City snake Plissken he's got to come out of retirement and Run as the
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Republican He's He's the only one that could possibly save New York at this point snake for snake for mayor needs to be the to be the the motto because Wow and Unfortunately, that movie is so old that the
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Anyone millennial and younger in the audience is going who they're all they're all googling snake
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Plissken now and Finding out that that was a that was a pretty cool movie long long ago
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Dark, and I don't know but back then it was meant to be semi comedic
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Now unfortunately, it's pretty much what New York has turned into or will turn into Escape from New York.
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That's right. It was late 90s wasn't it? I think it was somewhere on there somewhere in that time frame anyway
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So, yeah Hey, let me mention real quickly here.
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I've Never seen so much discussion of Israel and the
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Jews and Eschatology and You know, you see the heavy artillery going off in social media
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Pounding the Dispensationalists and they're firing back and pounding the amillennialists and The post -millennialists are sitting over there going.
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This is fun and It is obvious that What's normally considered a side issue in light of what has been happening in the
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Middle East has become a Central issue and So I was
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Josh bars on Posted I guess he's posted a follow -up a brief summary of history of the
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IFB internet independent fundamentalist Baptist and It was really good you should
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I retreated the thread I haven't had a chance to read the follow -up that he did but I Was raised
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GRB up until about 11, and then we moved and we eventually eventually joined a
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Southern Baptist Church, but my dad went to Moody Bible Institute and I heard my parents talking about Jack Hiles and I was baptized at Bible Baptist Church in Charlemontown, Pennsylvania And that was definitely
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IFB. I think it still is and all You know the anti Billy Graham stuff
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The Oh, what was that Institute for something or became a cult anyway the red the red binder
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Everybody knows the red binder with all this stuff about how you're supposed to run your family and all
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I got I remember that stuff Yeah, that that's that's where I came out of but what's interesting is as a result
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I had this I just sort of Absorbed this idea of The state of Israel as a well, of course fulfilled in a biblical prophecy 1948 the budding of the fig tree.
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I've told you the story before about how I had this Ultimately geeky watch man.
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I wish I still had that watch Wonder what happened to it because I've got I have I have the watch my parents gave me for my graduation
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It's totally ruined. I put a new battery in it, but it didn't make any difference It had a map of the entire globe on it had all the time zones as a
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Seiko, I think Anyway, I had a watch that had tritium watch face and That means blow it all the time.
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It was radioactive. It was radioactive and Not dangerously radioactive, but it was radioactive and I was using it to read
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Matthew 24, I'd put this little I Still have it. I know where it is in my office the sole winners
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New Testament I'd put it up to that. I was explaining my friends during a lock -in at North Phoenix Baptist Church.
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This would have been about 1979 or 80 About how
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Israel become a nation in 1948. That's the budding of the fig tree and at 40 years. So 1988 and and You know
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You had wisenant that did the 88 reasons why the rapture would be in 88 or was 84 and 84
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I forget which one it was. It was 88. Yeah, and Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah all that kind of stuff that's that's my background and somehow it
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So so Jews were important for the fulfillment of biblical prophecy, but no one ever talked about actually witnessing to them
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I Don't think I ever met one in my youth
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There was never I never heard a sermon about How to witness to a
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Jewish person fulfilled prophecies Isaiah 53 Overcoming objections, you know,
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I've heard Jeff Durbin preach that one at least three times Since I've been at Apologia, which
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I've been at Apologia now for over seven years and So So you had the
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Jews in the New Testament and they're just all bad Which actually is a misreading in the
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New Testament Simeon Anna You know Nicodemus they weren't all bad
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And many people in your church came out of that You know were Jews who came to believe in the
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Messiah But the Jews are all bad Pharisees scribes silicon and then
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I I get in a seminary and I Had a real fascination with the background in the
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New Testament. I was already involved in apologetics. And so I knew Background issues New Testament Old Testament background issues were vitally important.
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Everybody else slept through those classes I was the one asking all the questions Everybody hated me because we didn't get our classes fast because I was asking quick but You know,
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I I have the 22 volume hardback edition of the cincino
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Talmud There in my my library. I took a bunch of classes at the local
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Jewish Community Center What what are you laughing about? 1981
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Wow, okay. Yeah, there you go There you go, so it was yeah snake snake
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Plissken would be pretty old now Yeah, Kurt Russell He's still around I think
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You know, he should run. He might you know, put put the eyepatch on he'd he'd probably
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The debate would be great with the other guy just back smack him in the nose anyway
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Um So now I see sitting here
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I'm sitting here saying something important and look what you did to me Yeah, yeah, people just don't know what you what
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I have to put up with in here Where was I in my conversation? So we looked at the
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Jews as having some sort of It's like they they're there but they don't really exist as people so you don't really have to minister to them
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You don't have to really witness to them All the Jews of the in the New Testament were bad. Oh I was telling you about the classes.
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I took at the Jewish Community Center. That's right on Jewish Midrash I've got
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I've got a really decent Jewish theology section in my library
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I took I did stuff in seminary that you didn't have to do I took more Hebrew than you had the new than you had to take so I've eventually realized that there was
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There wasn't just one Jewish perspective prior to Jesus second temple Judaism was a multifaceted thing if you did any study on the new perspective on Paul you had to read all the
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That stuff Sanders and all that kind of stuff and It's much more complicated than most people thought
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But you There was still this chasm between How you viewed
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Israel today and what you thought of Evangelizing Jews respond to Jewish claims.
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Did you know anything about Jewish apologetics? that kind of stuff and It was almost like the
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Jews were just sort of this stuff out there. They weren't really human beings they're just stuff out here that you fit into your eschatological perspective and Once you leave
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Dispensationalism which I did early on and then once you leave pre -millennial ism dispensational pre -millennial ism, which
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I did a little bit later on All the underpinnings of that stuff start falling out and you start dealing with the reality of what the
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New Testament actually says about Israel and the Jews and the church and You have to keep dealing with all of these
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Old Testament promises that were interpreted in regards to the nation of Israel, but the nation of Israel was unfaithful and the nation of Israel was rejected and was sent into captivity and and then you find the
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New Testament writers taking these things about Israel and applying them to the church in the New Testament and it's Like this is really weird and then you you look at Jesus speaking to the churches at the beginning of the book of Revelation and When writing the
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Church of Philadelphia in Revelation 3 9 Behold, I am giving up those of the synagogue of Satan Those who say that they are
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Jews and are not but lie Behold I will make them come and bow down before your feet and make them know that I have loved you now
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What's really really interesting there is You have the synagogue of Satan now sunago gay synagogue gathering place standard terminology for the place of Jewish gathering and of course as The Apostles went out they would go to the synagogues
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That was that would be their first place to go. There are people there familiar with the scriptures the prophecies the coming
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Messiah things like that eventually they're not welcome there anymore, they're driven out and This is repeated over and over again in the early church and then here you have the synagogue of Satan Which Well those who say that they are
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Jews and are not but lie Well, what does that mean
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Are these people they're not truly Jews No They are opposing the church.
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They're claiming to be Jews, but they're not Why As far as I can see there's only one way to understand the why
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As Paul said the Philippians we are the true circumcision who worship God in the spirit and So as the rift between synagogue and church has expanded and Persecution of Christians That was the early that unfortunately should not have ever reversed but it did
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How else do you understand who say that they are
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Jews and are not but lie and Then behold,
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I will make them come and bow down before your feet and make them know that I have loved you So the love of God is now focused upon the church not upon the
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Jews Now some people would say that well When it says that I will make them come and bow down before your feet that that's the future
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Salvation of All the Jews how and again that takes us to Romans 11 and 47 different interpretations in different time frames and it
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Gets very very complicated It's hard for me to see that as having an eschatological film and this seems to be something it's going on in the early period there in Philadelphia and I could hope that it's soteriological
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But it could just simply be I will force them to recognize and this is a part of the prophecies of Isaiah That when a people of a strange tongue come speaking to the people of Israel, it's evidence that the kingdom has been taken away from them and That's what's happened here
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That while they have sought the persecution of the
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Christian Church I will make them know that I have loved you the church
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And that therefore their persecution is is in vain there's some there's a lot of very strong language in the
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New Testament in the book of late revelation in regards to Once the
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Messiah comes and the prophecies are fulfilled when you reject the fulfillment and cling to the traditions what you're left clinging to is
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Is Antichrist it is what does that mean in the place of opposed to?
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So if if Christ means Messiah and you were opposed to Jesus being Messiah that makes you Antichrist And I've mentioned many times before you know,
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I went to fully theological seminary and fuller Very sensitive
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To suppose that anti -jewish polemics in New Testament and embarrassed in many ways
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By the strong words found in the New Testament Well, here's the problem Okay, so you've got strong words in the
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New Testament You've got you've got people who are rejecting the fulfillment of the prophecies.
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They're seeking to Persecute the followers of Christ this guy named
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Saul For example and God is still building the church building the kingdom converting his people but if you then have
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This overarching Eschatological system That makes modern -day secular
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Jews And how do you define that? I mean
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You would think that would be an easy thing to define I don't know that it is there's all sorts of argumentation about Genetic markers
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DNA tests and all sorts of stuff like that who who gets to go this is the pure Jew and this is the less pure Jew and who gets to Who gets to make that decision?
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I've not seen anyone given that that authority and I'm no expert on Israel only been there once But it struck me as a a very secular state with odd Memorials to religiosity, so you get into any escalator in a multi -story building in Israel and There's this
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Sabbath stuff, you know There's a like Sabbath elevator or something that as I recall it goes to every floor so it's not going beyond a certain distance and I Don't remember all of it, but it you couldn't avoid it.
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It was it was right there. It was right in front of you but the The state is primarily secular
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There's a wide acceptance of the LGBTQ movement in In Israel, especially in places that large cities like Tel Aviv And What exactly is the connection?
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between the Jews Who lie and say they're
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Jews and they're not in? Philadelphia in the first century Philadelphia in Turkey And The secular
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Jews in Israel today, I mean you might say well, it's just it's all it's all genetic
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But that's not how the Bible necessarily views things just genetically DNA tests are fairly modern modern thing
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When you assume that the modern state of Israel is a modern -day miracle
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That God brought this about not the UN that God brought this about and therefore, this is a regathering of the actual
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Jewish people and then you Ignore the fact that New Testament writers
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Saw the followers of Christ as the fulfillment of these promises and now you
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Know these these the ones who are gonna fill this now you got some serious problems in How you're going to?
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deal with People who the vast majority of people living in Israel do not make any pretense of worshiping the one true
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God and almost all the
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Governmental religiosity shall we say it's just simply to try to keep the Orthodox from Going nuts and And closing everything down It's it's not because there's a real belief in a coming
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Messiah or anything like that at all So, how do you what do you do with all that?
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Well, no matter what you you do see I don't I do not see the modern state of Israel as a fulfillment of Anything other than the
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Activities of the United Nations, I don't Obviously, it's a part of God's Sovereignty everything is a part of God's sovereignty
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It doesn't mean that this is I don't see anything in Scripture that says this is going to happen in 1948 the budding of fig trees and all the rest of stuff.
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I think you're just you have to be building a A pretty tenuous
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Set of Jing what they call it Jenga blocks, you know, we've put them all together and hope it all doesn't fall down It just seems really extreme to me along those lines and I certainly couldn't defend it
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Some people that's all they want to do. I just don't find to be that central but If you go there then it it has certain necessary ramifications as you look at things and I just I look at the state of Israel and You know in what happened last week
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If Iran had a nuclear weapon would they use it against Israel unquestionably does
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Iran need a government that would be able to hold that Idiocy in check. Yeah, they really do can they have such a government that depends on the people of Iran and It's real easy for us to look at this right now.
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Let's just have you not noticed Europe is falling Europe has committed
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Europe has slit its own throat has committed cultural and political suicide and And it's not the
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Jews that did it it's leftist wacko whites It is white women, especially
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Liberal white women. Oh my goodness Look at look at that purple haired dingbat in the in the
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House representatives. Whoo is She something else But Then again
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Houston Houston has been sending some at the biggest dingbats on the planet to the House representatives
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Thank you to the city of Houston Wow people seriously Anyway You Europe European countries have nuclear weapons
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They don't have to they don't have to be building a nuclear bomb in Iran once they take over England They've got nuclear weapons
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I don't know what to do about all this. I'm simply observing it and going
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Wow How's the Lord gonna work through all this
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I I do not know I I wish I had the answer all
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I know is where we are called to faithfulness in the midst of all this and To think clearly and The one thing you just have to deal with is that in when
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Jesus wrote to the church, Philadelphia Look the synagogue. He called the synagogue Satan and he said they claim to be
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Jews. They're not Jews now they were Jews so that means The physical is not what defines it the
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Bible had been clear about that and We gotta we gotta allow that to be the yeah, all right, um a new white boy summer video came out and It somehow popped into my my feed
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I'm Samuel Holden and I'm just watching it.
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It's short I'm just I'm just going. Okay, when's the When's the
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Hitler connection gonna hit it did right toward the end? I saw this just super fast image of Someone speaking back in the 30s or 40s.
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You can tell by the old -style microphone. I Didn't recognize who it was. I Asked Grock who it was
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Grock didn't know who it was. So I put it out there and immediately I had all sorts of People that identified the fellow for me
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It's a guy named Oswald Moseley Had a bunch of people I'm surprised you don't know who
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Oswald Moseley was. Why should I? I've never claimed to be an expert on British fascists
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I'm not reading that stuff. What how on earth would I know that I've never heard the man before in my life and Leader of the
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British Union of fascists and I'm sitting there going so White boy summer and You throw in the head of the
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British Union of fascists who was real big on Oh on Adolf Hitler oh, okay,
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I I get it and Yet people just keep playing footsie with these guys with the
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Holden brothers and Oh white boys summer in that great How can you not see what this is all about I you well you can't
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You you do know what it's all about and You you don't care you you're okay with with that kind of stuff well
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There you go. There you go this morning An old friend
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Texted me a link Um Just second.
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Yeah Yeah, I'm sure pastor
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Medina is listening right now. I just got your your text message. Thank you um,
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I Was really disappointed. I'll be I'll be honest with you. It was a link to a
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Matt frad short so on on YouTube evidently
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Matt frad Had Alex draw draw draw to on for three and a half hours and what they do is they will you know if I'm glad you know,
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I don't have the time to do this. We'll let the younger guys do it, but evidently
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If stuff's about monetization clicks and and views and Likes and all this kind of stuff, which
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I don't really understand. We don't do that stuff I I'm not saying you're wrong.
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If you do, I just know that I think it introduces some less than Proper motivations in what you want to put out and how you want people to respond to it may not be the best thing for the truth and Speaking the truth speaking truth and love anyway
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Okay So they put out this one minute and eight second
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Short titled Matt frad did okay. It's pints with Aquinas Not gonna go into all the things
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I could say about that but pints of the Aquinas Matt frad Pastors debate goes horribly wrong after previous pastor went
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Catholic Okay so I'm gonna go ahead and Play this and It's only like it's only a minute and eight seconds long and This is definitely a fair use because I'm gonna be saying
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It's simply wrong it's Wrong about everything. So here's some now this is if you go back last summer
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I I Headed up to the Denver area as I normally do and I stopped in Colorado Springs And let me just give you some background
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I had had contact With reform Baptist Church, Colorado Springs and the reason for the contact had nothing to do with Roman Catholicism It had to do with a former member of that church who was reformed
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Baptist and his very unfair criticisms of me and And how
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The elders that church without having initially been in contact with me at least first Had rebuked this man for the way he was behaving toward me and he eventually left and he attacked them and so we had a
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Convert. I remember we somehow we had gotten connected up. We talked on the phone and I Felt badly that there had been
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Division in the church or at least some division in the church that had anything to do with me and So I had mentioned to the leadership
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I was like, you know, I come through Colorado Springs I you know,
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Jason Lyle's in the in the area we can go star stargazing and Why don't we try to plan something to where I come by On my summer trip and Do something to try to be of benefit to the church.
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That was that was the first motivation for stopping in Colorado Springs last summer and So as we started talking about it
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The first topic that I wanted to address Was open theism and So they're contacting the folks up in Denver where we had done the open theist debates before and Trying to get people and getting run around the gum stump well, this person would be willing to do it but not during this period of time and you know, this other guy's out of town and It just never happened.
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It fell apart and we're running out of time. And So we're like well
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Maybe we could do a Roman Catholic topic, you know, and that's when
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I was told And I did not know this before That the former pastor of this reform
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Baptist Church Had swum the Tiber He had become Roman Catholic.
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So I said well, they're still in the area. Yeah Contact him See if he'd be willing to debate
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You know, I mean if you think you've got such clear evidence That what you once believed was false
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This would be a great opportunity to explain that to a larger audience and Yeah, it's your own your old church and so they contacted and of course
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He wasn't interested. He wouldn't do it Which I think is sort of relevant, you know, it's relevant that a our first Topic we were looking for and worked toward had nothing to do with Roman Catholicism.
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It was just I'm coming in Trying to set up a debate and Let's let's do it on open theism,
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I think it's an important topic That didn't work out. And so then it's like well, you know our
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Former pastor Came Roman Catholic And it's like well, but will he debate?
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I'll be glad to debate him. Let's let's let's do that. Well, he won't do it And then they got in touch with a fellow there locally
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And I know his name I ran across his name in the emails. I just see it over my screen as well
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And they tried to get hold of a number of different Roman Catholic apologists and Basically the the last guy on their list that didn't
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Bail out on them or say no, I'm not gonna do whatever was Alex Dorado. I didn't know much about Alex.
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In fact, I had to Once they got back to me,
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I didn't say hey, let's go after this Alex Dorado guy. Let's let's he'll be easy -picking That's what you're gonna hear.
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That's what's now being said. No, I had no idea who on earth he was. I And I remember once they came back and said, okay this guy named voice of reason
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Alex Dorado He's willing to debate Okay, it was only a matter of weeks before the debate and So I was
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I remember I was in Flagstaff I was on my way up I was Wanting to do this ride at high altitude you've got to get up I'm gonna be trying to do the same thing in a few weeks and I'm not gonna be acclimated and it's gonna be horrible but I went up to Flagstaff and I remember
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I'm riding I'm doing the ride out to the old Mormon Lake Road out there
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Where the earth opened up and swallowed the lake still sad Because I remember back in the 90s riding out there and it was
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It was beautiful Lake Upper Lake Upper Lake Mary then Mormon Lake stuff like that Anyway, and what am
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I doing? Well, I'm doing these long rides out on this rather It's a really nice road to ride on a bike.
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It really is. There's no space about it. I'm listening to Alex Dorado, but The only thing
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I can really listen to is him debating East North Oxcott because I he just hasn't done that much and So I'm listening
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I'm going oh wow, I'm gonna be debating Sylvester Stallone and Everybody he knows that it sounds just like him and that's one of the first things
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I said to him he met is has he ever sued you and But you know,
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I'm listening to the content and you know, how does he debate and what's interesting that's okay I'm just trying to get a flavor
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He did have a he did have one video on solo scriptura, so I I'd listen that wasn't very long
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It wasn't in -depth standard stuff But I didn't know who he was and So when we met, you know everybody at the church was really kind and extended themselves and and I tried to be as you know
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Much nicer than the average Scotsman and I'm sorry.
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I yeah, I did and you know, and So it was it would you know,
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I thought it was really The context
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Let's just put this way. It was so much more personable than Jimmy Akin debates, okay
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And it was actually a debate it wasn't just a long presentation interrupted by the other guy talking for a while That's a
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Jimmy Akin debate anymore. Anyways, which is why I have no interest in any of that stuff anymore But yeah,
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I'm like, you know, this is a nice guy you know now I didn't come back and Dissect the debate.
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I didn't come back and say well I had I had certain people say this to me and certain people say that to me
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You know, there's one time I Can remember where we really did dissect a debate
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But it was like 10 or 15 years after it took place and that was the Patrick Madrid debate on the veneration of saints and angels because he
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Made it an issue. He went on the program and made it a big issue and it's like, okay
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Let's go back through this and demonstrate that that's not what happened But I generally don't do that I tried to let the debates speak for themselves and Alex will tell you within the past month.
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I contacted him and By the way, we had we had lunch together on my way home after that after you know
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Cuz there was I still bought up the Denver so like that was a few weeks later I'm coming through Albuquerque on my way home and and we had lunch and it was very pleasant and he's a nice guy and Then I've I've maintained a little contact with him once in a while I contacted him last month and said hey
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Would love to debate you on the perpetual virginity of Mary in Tullahoma in September Sorry, I'm all booked up into next year
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Okay. All right. So we're working on another debate on a completely different topic for Tullahoma But you know,
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I extended that invitation To engage that kind of topic
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So but like I said, we didn't come back and I didn't try to spin these things. I didn't try to You know
43:01
I'm not gonna come back after debate and go well, you know a lot of audience members
43:06
Sort of thought this out of the other thing And that's what's disappointing about this.
43:11
That's not what has happened from Alex's and It's very disappointing
43:17
Really is so here it is a minute and eight seconds and Then we're gonna respond to it
43:25
Nope, but if it if it if it if it do For me to be able to cue stuff up. I have to hear it in here
43:32
That means I can't be sending it to where it needs to go, which is there ready now. Here we go
43:39
Most of the people that were there watching the debate they were Protestants. It seemed like I was winning over his crowd
43:46
And I don't say it to brag This is what I and what other people confirmed to me people that were telling me do you feel the energy in the room?
43:52
The Catholics were looking at the non Catholics in the room too And they were like they agree with you the reason that debate happened We did it at a reformed
43:58
Baptist Church The reason that debate happened was because the pastor of that church became Catholic and he left the church
44:04
So the new pastor that took his place He had to kind of pick up the pieces because the people were scandalized that their pastor left them to become
44:11
Catholic So he thought I need to get the biggest gun in town James White haven't come here in front of my people get any
44:18
Catholic and just have James White destroy him in the debate and that'll fix the problem and nobody will think about leaving the Catholicism They go through all of these guys much more capable than me
44:26
But in God's providence you were chosen. They may not have done as well as you everyone knew why the debate was taking place
44:31
They wanted dr White to make an example out of me so that their people could be cool We did the debate it went down the way that it went down and what everyone was telling me after was that the word that They use was it backfired terribly on them it backfired really bad.
44:42
Now the situation is worse What kind of feedback did you get in person and online afterwards? It was 99 % positive
44:48
Most of the people that were there watching the debate. Okay, so Pastors of the church
44:57
Heard about this last night. I only heard about this one and He wrote a lengthy comment you can find it on YouTube I'm gonna read it for you
45:08
Of the mouth of two or three witnesses The title this short along with the sound bites from Alex misrepresent the
45:15
Reformed Baptist Church the pastor and the nature of this event This is a grossly embellished take on the setup of this debate
45:21
I'm not sure what Mike Dill and the Inferno men That's the Catholic side that arranged this thing and had sought other
45:28
Roman Catholic apologists and could not get them Told Alex about the situation with the former pastor
45:34
But the way Alex describes this is wrong The debate did not happen because of a former pastor turned
45:40
Catholic controversy the now Catholic former pastor of the church left in 2018 The pieces have long been picked up since then and scandalized as a major stretch to describe what happened with the
45:51
RB Reformed Baptist Church seven years ago Just because the history of the Reformed Baptist Church has a story that is helpful to Alex's campaign
45:59
Doesn't mean it can be falsely used as fodder for gaining popularity This debate was not at all to make an example out of Alex and to suggest that flies in the face the spirit of humility
46:09
And clarity that both Reformed Baptist Church and the Catholic Inferno men strived for Alex did a superb job debating dr.
46:17
White that took everyone even the Catholics by surprise and perhaps that was the perception of winning them over However, I'm not so sure
46:24
Alex was as persuasive as to the Reformed Baptist Church as he is leading folks to believe on the various Platforms he has been on almost a year later.
46:33
Not one member of the Reformed Baptist Church has converted Roman Catholicism There was no backfire because this was not the nature or intent of the debate
46:41
Whatever situation Alex is referring to is not worse because there was no fallout
46:46
Let's be clear Alex and the Inferno men had quite the Catholic entourage in a place that seated only 120 people
46:54
This was not supposed to be a debate on sola scriptura We've formed Baptist Church considered an atheist three open theists and one other guy's potential debate opponents
47:03
First time a Catholic was entertained was when the church was running out of time and Mike Dill with the
47:09
Inferno men Returned their phone call. They presented one Catholic guy that backed out soon after then
47:14
Alex Contrary to what Alex says this was not a debate to pick up pieces and make an example with the heavy hitter.
47:21
Dr White at best Alex has embellished the course of events at worst. He is lying for the sake of his recent popularity
47:28
I like Alex and he was very humble during the event. I didn't expect this from him. Perhaps that is what backfired.
47:35
Well That's exactly my feeling. I'm really disappointed too. This isn't the
47:42
Alex that I had Lunch with right afterwards or have talked to since then but he's exactly right
47:49
Now, I'm sorry Alex. You were not our first choice We did not know who you were This was not find an easy
47:57
Patsy and destroy him. This was not because of what had happened in seven years earlier
48:04
Everything you said was just simply false. Now, maybe that's what had been communicated to you.
48:10
I Know if so, then your Roman Catholic friends have misled you but If that was the truth, why do
48:21
I have all sorts of emails going back and forth before you were ever contacted with open theists?
48:29
Why Because the church when I talk to the church, I'd like to come do something
48:34
Hey, we could do it We could do a little conference type thing and maybe we could do a debate you think we could work with me to do
48:39
A debate. Yeah, we'd love to do that What would you like to debate well, I'd like to debate open theism
48:46
I'd like to debate some of these guys that are that are coming up not the really whacked -out nasty dudes, but People that are getting a little bit of a you know exposure and stuff like that, okay, you know and so phone calls start and email start and goes round and round around and we're getting closer and closer in time and So there was
49:09
Everything that was just said there just isn't true and Alex you'd be pretty honest with you the people that talked to me that were at the debate were like, yeah
49:19
He's a nice guy, but he's really in over his head It just didn't seem like You know, he's sort of a bull in a in a china closet.
49:28
He makes a lot of assertions, but doesn't have a whole lot of reasoned evidence behind what he's saying and You know,
49:36
I just I just hope you don't get accused of Low -hanging fruit stuff again, and I'm like, hey, you know, the guy was was gracious and Yeah, I felt like He didn't establish
49:55
Roman Catholic Church Authority didn't even really try And tried to turn it totally into a solo scriptura debate
50:04
Okay, I Understand why they have to do that because they won't they won't positively defend
50:11
Rome's positive claims and Even when they think they are they're actually just attacking solo scriptura.
50:16
Anyways, it's The sad reality that all Roman Catholic apologists I think are forced into by the nature of their system
50:24
But I didn't come back and start talking about well, I had this person say well, you know low -hanging fruit, you know
50:31
I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna let people watch the debate and come to their own decisions so when
50:38
I watch this thing and I'm just like What? That's not true.
50:45
That's that wasn't the intention of the church the pastors the elders wasn't my intention We wanted to do a debate want to do a debate on other topics first they all fell apart
50:56
I Had forgotten the atheist one I do have vague recollection of that But even as he pointed out the infernal men
51:10
You weren't the first one they went for That guy said yes and then said no
51:18
So Why even why even say this stuff why even go here
51:24
I I really don't understand it I don't stand the motivation I really don't so anyway,
51:34
I Once I once I saw that now, you know what I was talking about it was
51:42
Sort of sad to see that I did not expect it, but And I'm not saying
51:52
I'm not going to debate him in the future or stuff like that, but I I'm gonna keep good notes
51:59
Yes Because there you go. I I it shouldn't have gone out that way.
52:06
I am looking With with a bunch of other stuff's going on I haven't been able to contact the primary
52:17
Well, I could have I just haven't wanted to To do it We're looking at possibility of a
52:28
Dallas event In the end of February now,
52:34
I was out in February this year and man we had some wild weather in Texas That's where that windstorm was and that would have been bad with the unit.
52:43
I would have been hunkered down someplace Don't even know how
52:49
I would have survived that but anyway There's a there's a real possibility of a major Islamic event the last weekend in February and So, you know
53:07
Dallas is a easy place for people to get to flying wise It's not too bad driving though, you still have to cross
53:17
West Texas one way or the other and So I'm thinking and then you know,
53:26
I haven't heard back from him I I Texted him and yeah, no,
53:35
I haven't haven't heard her back, but he Foskey has Talked about my coming to his church in Florida.
53:44
I've never I've been to the panhandle with the RV, but I've not gone down into the main part of the state and My recollection was
53:57
That it was only a couple weeks after this I'm sitting here.
54:03
I'm just as they say spitballing stuff here be really cool to be able to do something on Islam in Dallas and Then hustle on down to Florida Where at least it shouldn't be freezing anyway and Do something with Keith Foskey and see if we can't arrange a debate down there and The thought that crosses my mind since I keep coming up on Matt frads program is
54:41
Maybe Matt frad would debate me on the perpetual virginity of Mary maybe in Florida because my understanding is frads in Florida so And and Alex had said he's booked up through 2025.
55:00
Well, this is 2026 so Maybe that's a direction to go possibility
55:10
Because I think that's a fantastic subject Roman Catholics go.
55:16
Oh Jerome destroyed how video city I Read what Helvetia's actually said?
55:21
No, you can't cuz we don't have it. All you've got is You have Helvetia's his response
55:27
Have you even read Jerome's? refutation of Helvetia's it's got massive holes in It is not anywhere near Jerome's best work.
55:37
And there's a lot of things Jerome was way out in the woods on so It's a highly problematic
55:44
But hey, it's your dogma so you should be able to defend it, right? Yeah, maybe Matt frad will or maybe he'll ask
55:53
Alex I don't know. So let's see if we can work something out
56:01
And and head on down that direction, um, all right, let's see
56:08
I'll be honest with you at four minutes to the hour anything else that I had queued up wouldn't even be worth trying to Even introduce or summarize or anything else.
56:20
So I'll leave it all for them for the next time Let me just want let me please. Thank Every single individual who
56:30
Heard my words last week about How challenging summers can be for nonprofit ministries and The fact that we needed some need some encouragement still do
56:48
I Did not ask rich for the final tally Yesterday, I believe it was when was it yesterday today's
57:00
Thursday. When did we pick it up Wednesday or Tuesday? No, we didn't do it this morning We did not pick up the
57:07
RV this morning It was
57:13
Tuesday it was is Tuesday. Yes I mean when you look at me and say yes, it was this morning that that Latin leaves me, you know complete loss
57:23
Yeah, not totally over the over the over the Not quite up to 100 % yet.
57:29
I understand anyway, rich hasn't given me that total but it was it was Substantial it was a cha -ching.
57:37
Yeah, it really was and so very very thankful to all of you who contacted us and and gave
57:48
There's there's still Some some some needs out there, so I'll let you let you know that and I'll just tell you honestly
57:56
When I hook that thing up Morning of July 5th
58:03
I'm probably gonna be bleary -eyed because we allow Fireworks in the state of Arizona, which means the night before is going to be like World War two
58:14
Um When I hook that thing up and head for Conway, Arkansas to teach apologetics that grace
58:21
Bible Theological Seminary come back and and do the mini conference in Dolores It's it's a whole lot more
58:35
Enjoyable just to head up the road toward Flagstaff, which you've ever driven from Phoenix to Flagstaff.
58:41
It's It's straight uphill we're at 1 ,200 feet there they're at 7 ,000 feet there
58:47
So and the problem is you climb most of it and then go down and then you do it again into Camp Verde, but anyway it's um it's a lot easier the the blood pressure is a little lower the heart sings a little few few songs when you you know, everything's covered and And you're you're you're not just hoping that everything's gonna get covered by the time you get to the end of the trip or something and it's easier to set up the the studio and Do the program while we're on the road
59:22
Fire up the star link when we need it Got it got to pay that got to reactivate the account and get it going which which isn't all that bad
59:30
But you know, it's it's the way things the way things are So we had to replace catalytic converter on the truck.
59:38
That's weird They even said it was weird and it really frustrates me when I go to the
59:43
I go to the get those guys I go so how can I avoid this in the future and they go? That and you can do
59:50
So I didn't do anything wrong to cause this that's right you didn't There's nothing
59:56
I can do to keep them happening in the future. That's right. And it's three thousand two hundred dollars.
01:00:01
That's right Okay, all right That's that's how it goes.
01:00:07
So anyways when you give toward Toward the travel fund toward the the ministry
01:00:15
Know that you are lowering my blood pressure and making it far more
01:00:20
Far more enjoyable to head out on the road and do the things we're doing. So Get into the churches.
01:00:26
We're getting into so that's that's that's good thing. Okay. Thanks for watching the program today and Let's see.
01:00:33
Today is Thursday. So we will Lord willing. See you next week.