Mater Populi Fidelis: Today's Papal Pronouncement

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Well, greetings welcome to the dividing line we've we are going to be on top of current events today

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When you only do two programs sometimes three a week Sometimes you're talking about stuff that well everybody else has already stopped talking about by the time you get to it especially if it happens like on a

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Friday or something when we get to it till Tuesday, but We mentioned last week.

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Maybe even the week before that The announcement was going around that there was a

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Paper a document a statement from the Vatican a Doctrinal statement coming out today.

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And so I knew That by the time we got up here in the United States the contents that document would be would have been made available and There are a bunch of people speculating hoping hoping

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That this would be a definition of the fifth Marian dogma that Believe me when stuff like that is going to be defined like when the bodily assumption of Mary was defined

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Everybody knew it was coming. It wasn't a surprise. It wasn't it wasn't described as a doctrinal statement or something like that So I was skeptical that it would be something that big

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But boy, there were a lot of Roman Catholics hoping it would be why because millions and millions and millions of petitions

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Have been turned in the Vatican over the past 40 years Calling for the definition of the fifth

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Marian dogma which is Which as argued I I know the cover of this looks this is

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Interesting. Yeah. Oh interesting. Well, okay here I had forgotten this.

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This is a book that I used in writing Mary another Redeemer 26 years ago

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And right up front There are a tear -out

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Petition cards you can send To His Holiness Pope John Paul the second cita del

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Vaticano Roma, Italy and You do need to provide your own postage Um your holiness

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With filial love we the faithful wish to humbly petition you the Vicar of Christ to solemnly define as Christian dogma the church's constant teaching on Mary's co -redemptive role with Christ the

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Redeemer of humanity Is our belief that such a definition will bring to light the whole truth about Mary daughter of the father mother the son spouse of the

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Spirit and Mother of the church therefore it is our prayer the

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Holy Spirit will guide you Holy Father to define and proclaim the Blessed Virgin Mary as Corydentrix mediatrix of all graces and advocate for the people of God.

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So there's the definition There is what the fifth Marian dogma is proclaim

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To define and proclaim. So in other words use your infallible authority, which is almost urban use

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To proclaim the Blessed Virgin Mary as Corydentrix Mediatrix of all graces and advocate for the people of God now

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Millions of these have been turned in this book Dedicated John Paul the second is by Mark Miravalli Mark Miller Miravalli to my knowledge

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And this has the Nihil Abstadt and the imprimatur as well interestingly enough Continues to teach at the

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Franciscan University of Steubenville and is full professor of theology there and as you can see

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I Read it. Well, it's thoroughly marked Interesting just reading

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Wow Well, yeah This is I'm sorry

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Mary Corydentrix mediatrix advocate. That's the title of the book or the booklet the well booklet it's

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About 80 pages. Yeah, right around 80 pages If you want to know about this dogma

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Which is not a dogma. It's a doctrine. This is the book to get this is the argument and Like for example right here is a whole section from all the various popes

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Who have taught this as doctrine I think the earliest let me let me look here

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Cory Demchick's in the work of Revelation papal teaching. Here we go Let's see, what's the earliest papal?

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Yeah, I thought 1870s 1870s Fairly recent as far as church history is concerned, but 1870s, but there have been many statements made by the

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Popes of Rome That while maybe not using the exact word

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Have made it very very clear. I mean how many times I would be quoted from this

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The Glories of Mary Alphonsus de Liguri. There are other books like this month

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Louis de Montfort all this kind of stuff It's um, it's made.

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I was made a doctor of the church just like John Henry Cardinal Newman has just been made a doctor of the church

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Thomas Aquinas is a doctor of the church going to Rome and You proclaim the few that have been made doctors of the church you proclaim them that way because of the

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Centrality and importance of the theological contributions that they have made from the perspective of the

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Roman Catholic Church today anyway, and So This is this is a well -argued vote.

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I wonder honestly, um, I Don't know if I'll have time to But I should see if Mirabali has some type of a blog website if he's on X Because as far as I can tell from reading this new document was just released today

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For those who haven't been following this Rather than There's some really disappointed people.

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There's some really really disappointed people Online today and Let me see if I can find this

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Unfortunately things scroll so fast that that I probably can't but there was a

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Fellow who responded to the EWTN posting of this document and He was basically saying well,

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I have to submit to the infallible Vicar of Christ What he was saying is I don't want to do this but I'm I need to do this because you know the

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Pope's the Pope and so I have to follow what the Pope has to say and that kind of stuff and I think it was the same lady

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That I had quoted last week. Yeah, here it is. Here it is ding ding ding ding, so EWTN Vatican had this

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And a guy named John Kameppa or Kameepa Responded sadly obeying the

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Holy Father Pope Leo the 14th and Brie Solstad, I'm pretty sure that's who

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I quoted on the last program and somebody said I They expressed it in some way as if I was attacking or something.

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I just read her tweet I disagreed with her views on Mary, but I didn't attack her as an individual. I don't know who she is

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This is what she said in response to the guy who said I'm sadly obeying you don't have to This was not approved in Informa Specifica by the

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Pope. So, you know, one of the first things

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I thought was okay. All right. I started reading this document and when you go back and read the documents that Proclaim the

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Immaculate Conception bodily assumption. These are Allegedly infallible things. It's very clear

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We proclaim define and and so on so forth and and then the obligatory anathemas

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Added at the end be hard for Rome to do that today. It really would be Even the ones done in 1950 were a little on the anemic side

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But after Vatican II, I just don't know how they could even use anathemas like that at all. But anyway This just is not the same kind of character of document at all as those things

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But Fundamentally what the document says is we're gonna stop using the terms core dem tricks and co -media tricks

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So it's the exact opposite of what the speculation was as soon as I started reading it.

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I'm like, wow Are we going to see? You're gonna see for weeks months

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How you can put out a document like this here's what the Pope says and Now it gets analyzed by everybody

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Well, it wasn't said this way. Well, it doesn't use this language. Well, that's actually against what

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John Paul II said So what do we could do about that? And it goes on and on and on and it just reminds me.

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I Think I was right 27 years ago, San Diego debating

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Mitch Pacwa My closing statement, but I do Walked up there

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Had a silver book bag got in the other room. I Started pulling books out. So which are in this room actually start pulling books out and plopping them on a desk next to me

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All these dogmatic hands and decrees and this that this and that pile of books.

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I Said what we're hearing tonight is That what Romans 5 one says therefore having been justified by faith.

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We have peace with God the Lord Jesus Christ Is you need this to understand those words and I submit to you

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That You follow this stack of books and you'll never understand that these words do not need this

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They do not clarify they muddy they bury That's why soul scripture is so important Here we are today

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Here we are today The books that I could pile up from my library the books

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I could pile up with the knee Hill Abstadt and the imprimatur on it Contradict each other all over the place all over the place and What do you do about it, well, we have the infallible

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Church really See one of the problems here is a lot of you are too young to have lived during John Paul the second pontificate

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He was hope for a long time there was sort of a little bit of stability during his time and One thing is very very plain

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John Paul the second's view on this topic as to the he used the term co -redemptrix and co -mediatrix himself

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And now the church says we shouldn't do that 30 years later. They've made him a saint for crying out loud 30 years later.

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Yeah Hmm might not want to use that terminology. See here's your problem. Here's your problem you look at this document you to go

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Okay, here's Here's the church today and so I need to obey the church today

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Okay Are you sure you're following a document that truly represents?

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apostolic tradition You Don't have any stinking way of knowing

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Until you're dead You have no way of knowing you can't know

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I can show you a reference. I'll see if I can track it down here Even in the document released today

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When they are admitting the John Paul the second, I think they said seven times had used this terminology

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When they talk about Francis Francis specifically rejected the terminology

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Well, where did he officially do that? Oh and a homily he gave Literally, you look at the notes homily given such -and -such a date

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And I go, uh When we quote homilies from Francis We're told that that's not official and we shouldn't be criticizing him for that because Pope's can have just their own personal opinions

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But you can put together papal documents Saying we shouldn't use the terms been using been being used by Pope's since the 1870s and now we're gonna stop using it

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Even though millions of people want to it made a dogma and you can quote the Pope from a homily and that's okay

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Right That's the whole point folks That's the whole point

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If you don't have there is no such thing as apostolic tradition here

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Here's the episode tradition. That's it there ain't nothing more and Rome rejected that statement a long time ago and So apostolic tradition has become this this buzzword.

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It's this catch category. It means nothing more than this Believe what we tell you to believe

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Period end of discussion. No connection to the early church. No connection to the Apostles. We don't have to trace anything

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Believe what we tell you to believe that's what I've saw tradition is and that's why once again as we've said for decades it's solo script

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Torah or it's solo Ecclesia and This is solo Ecclesia problem is

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Let's say you do what um, what was his name again? Scrolled a little bit.

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Uh, John Kamipa does sadly obeying the Holy Father What if 30 years from now some other

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Holy Father says we have now clarified We have now clarified

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The understanding because that's that's some of the language used in here Is that you know Cardinal Ratzinger who became bandit the 16

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Cardinal Ratzinger said that we you know I'll read this to you in a little bit. I don't think we're get to anything else today, unfortunately

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Even the Joshua Charles and stuff like that. We'll we'll do that next program but Even Cardinal Ratzinger before he became

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Pope Said that that this is this has not yet been fully developed by the theologians

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It was either passed down from the Apostles or it wasn't people oh No, it has to be developed.

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Oh Developed who came to develop developed Oh John Henry Cardinal Newman who last week was made a doctor of the church by Leo the 14th.

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Oh Oh And Joshua Charles is telling us all that that that development people have been teaching that forever

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You don't know what you're talking about Not the way Newman did and not the way Vatican to applied it. Everybody knows that So we have a document right in front of you.

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You can go to the Vatican website today grab it Download it PDF it do whatever you need to do with it.

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Keep it put it someplace that the EMP can't take it out someday here's a document and What it's proving beyond any shadow of a doubt is

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That Rome has no apostolic tradition Because Rome has been teaching something as doctrine by its highest authorities making application millions of people today are living their lives

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Believing that Mary is Cory Demetrix co -mediatrix an advocate for the people of God. I see him every single day

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They are Dedicated this idea Dedicated they live it they pray it it's their religion and now they wake up.

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Yeah, we shouldn't call them Well, what should we call it? There are certain your words have meanings words have meanings

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So Oh Drat Hey, do me a favor.

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I'm gonna have so is somebody in channel rich somebody I need a quick link to the docket to Vatican web page wherever it is.

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I need lumen gentium 62 two words lumen l -u -m -e -n Saying we're gentium g -e -n -t -i -u -m

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You can put 62 after it that might pull straight up. I don't know. I forgot to pull it up sticking on my screen I'm I need to read it

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There's quotes from in here, but I want to actually read the whole thing and it's in my book it's in here But it's only pieces.

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So I need to pull it up You don't know You might die

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Believing what this Papal document says and the day after you die it gets reversed maybe

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That's I think that's only a part of it. I In small font

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But to the Roman Catholic who is Probably not listening today, but maybe somebody will direct you this you don't know

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You do not know and you have absolutely no guarantee That if you

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Follow and believe fiduciary supplicants that a day after your death, that's not gonna be reversed

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And when I say reversed not necessarily, oh we messed up before we're gonna change it now fiduciary supplicants actually changed a

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Vatican statement from 18 months earlier Reversed it 18 months

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You don't know Because you are not believing in an objective revelation that's come from God There is no apostolic tradition that exists outside of Scripture When Irenaeus used that term he wasn't talking about what you're talking about Rome has developed this whole idea and all it does is allow them to basically have

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Continuing a revelation continuing a revelation. That's what it is. It's continuing a revelation

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The Apostles didn't teach the bodily assumption of Mary. There's nothing in the New Testament about the bodily assumption of Mary And So even when

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Roman Catholic apologists a few brave ones with guts Defend it how they defend it.

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How did how did Bob St. Genes do it? We debated it in Santa Fe By going to Acts 15 saying well the church has the authority to find this thing

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He didn't go to the Bible to do it. He couldn't there's nothing the Bible about it this nebulous idea of Apostolic tradition is being shown over and over and over again

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If you asked what the apostolic tradition about capital punishment was in 1600 you'd be given a different answer than today

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Dogmatically That's a fact That's a fact

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So this is what you're facing This is what you're up against so Vatican to Lumen Gentium, I need to read this then we'll get some other stuff here and I need to read part of the document to Ah this maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the annunciation got to understand

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When when she says be it under a servant when she accepts the announcement of Gabriel Rome has granted to her

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Incredibly remember any verse about Mary in the New Testament, and there are only so many of them has been loaded

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With 10 ,000 times more theological weight than any of those verses were ever meant to carry

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You are supposed to be able to read anything into any verse about Mary you have to because they've built a

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Massive structure of theology on Mary and the New Testament just simply knows nothing of it

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So you have to engage in is a Jesus you can't engage in exegesis So when

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Mary says be it under a servant, oh, that's her. Yes, that's her She makes it possible for God to save through her and all the rest of stuff and it again

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Don't believe me Pick it up. Dr. Of the church

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Nihil Abshad imprimatur. It's right there read it for yourself hundreds of pages Repeated over and over and over again.

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You don't have to believe me. Just read it If you haven't read this Don't talk to me

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At all about Rome what Rome teaches about Mary because this tells you more about Roman Catholic Mariology and Mariola tree

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Than anything you're gonna get on X today. I can guarantee you that okay so Yeah, I wish the font on this was bigger.

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Um, I guess I could make it bigger. Let me see. Oh, look at that Much better I can actually read it without these

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All right this attorney of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation in which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross and last until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect

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Taken up to heaven. She did not lay aside this salvific duty this salvific duty

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This is Vatican to which of course there's lots of feels like wow, well, he wasn't a dogmatic council blah blah blah, but they don't know nobody knows

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Pope's treat it differently because there is no apostolic tradition Taken up to heaven.

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She did not lay aside the salvific duty, but by her constant intercession. What does

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Mediatrix mean? Does Jesus is Jesus mediator. She is a female so when she engages in intercession along with Jesus that makes her

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Comediatrix, right Not equal to everybody's going well all they're really worried about and and this is what this is

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I I have a feeling That the people still pushing this because they're not just gonna go.

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Okay, we surrender we give up forget We forget the 30 years of work we've done Well, we'll take all of our books out of print and blah blah blah.

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I think what they're gonna do is they're gonna go Yes, okay Yes Co and English makes it sound equal to you know

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Like a like a co -regent is equal to the other regent or co -emperor. No. Yeah, that didn't look

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Miravalli covered all of that years ago They covered all of that years ago

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Let me tell you something, let me tell you something Miravalli's argument for this doctor is far stronger than this documents concerned about its confusion much stronger

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Why because Miravalli is following the trajectory of Marian theology that has already been established by teaching perpetual virginity immaculate conception

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Bodily assumption you can't get rid of immaculate conception bodily assumption. You're stuck with those

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So he's following the tradition. He's following the trajectory of those beliefs This document does not it tries to rain that back

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I Don't know why I'll be honest with you The timing on this, you know,

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I sit back and I go Uh Newman last week he's made a saint he's doctored the church

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Hmm Could this be some kind of ecumenical thing could this be some way of opening up room for Closer talks about reunion with the

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East because those talks are ongoing Uh Some of the current

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East North Aux leaders Do not strike me as extremely conservative on a lot of issues

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So might there be a desire there on their part as well? I don't know. I'm not I'm just speculating.

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I Mean, I didn't even know this was coming until just a few days ago It's not like I sit there following all these blogs reading between the lines.

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I don't have time of the energy to do it Uh But taken up to heaven bodily

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She did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession

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Continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation That's this that's

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Yeah, I I give myself to you. I Entrust you with my salvation.

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It's in here all over the place. Remember this one little booklet Remember, I've told this story a thousand times.

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I'm not sure I'm gonna tell it again, but the prayer in here, you know The person praying afraid of three things the world the flesh and Jesus The world of flesh and Jesus because Jesus is judge

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So I'm gonna turn to Mary because by one prayer from thee he will be appeased sounds like a mediatorial role

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You get indulgences for this for praying these prayers at least It'll exist.

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You don't get anything but promised Hmm by her maternal charity she cares for the brothers and sisters of her son who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics translation

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Until they're led into the happiness of their true home true home therefore The Blessed Virgin is invoked by the church under the titles of advocate

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Auxiliatrix Adjutrix and mediatrix right there

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That's what I can do. Well, we're gonna look at the document the document knows that they haven't forgotten that But what they emphasize is the next sentence

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This however is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one mediator what was the entire thesis of this book from 1999 that that last sentence is impossible to maintain

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It's impossible to maintain right toward the end of my book. There it is Hey, you write a book 27 years ago and see if you can remember exactly what page something

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I should have brought this up I Should have brought this up in Kindle Really should have

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But I put a little chart page 141 of the book and The Lord Jesus on one side, you know what?

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I have this in keynote at too late now Lord Jesus on one side

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Mary on the other All right, Lord Jesus predestined to be

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Redeemer Mary predestined to be redemptor Lord Jesus virgin -born

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Mary immaculately conceived Lord Jesus incarnate deity the Son in human flesh

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Mary spouse of the Spirit called by saints and theologians a kind of Incarnation of the Spirit remember how long ago was we played the interview that Matt frat had with that priest that monk where he was

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He was making Matt frat Like oh really it was making him uncomfortable.

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Yeah Lord Jesus sinless Mary kept from original sin and personal sin

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Lord Jesus suffered and died in Calvary Mary suffered and almost died before the cross Lord Jesus ascended into glory

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Mary bodily assumed into glory Lord Jesus King of heaven Mary Queen of heaven Lord Lord Lord Jesus source of grace

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Mary channel of grace Lord Jesus our peace with God Mary treasurer of our peace with God Lord Jesus Redeemer Mary co -redemptrix

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Lord Jesus mediator Mary mediatrix Lord Jesus advocate Mary advocate every single one of those

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Well, but it's not dogma every single one of those heart and soul of Mary and devotion in Roman Catholicism Doctor of the church.

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So what was the whole point? What did I say? The whole point is that last line this however is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the

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Dignity and efficacious of Christ one mediator cannot be sustained and today's document says the same thing

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But I said 27 years. That's what it's about That's what it's about Okay, so I gotta get to this

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I'm sorry, it's already 132 Uh under co -redemptrix

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The title co -redemptrix first appeared in the 15th century as a correction of the invocation

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Redemptrix as an abbreviated form the title mother of the Redeemer Which had been attributed to Mary since the 10th century st

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Bernard assigned Mary a role at the foot of the cross that gave rise to the title co -redemptrix Which first appears in an anonymous 15th century hymn from Salzburg, although the designation retempt redemptrix persisted throughout the 16th

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And 17th centuries it disappeared entirely in the 18th century having been replaced by the title co -redemptrix

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The theological research of Mary's cooperation in Christ's redemption in the first half of the 20th century Led to a deeper understanding of what the title co -redemptrix signifies

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Some popes have used the title co -redemptrix without check this out without elaborating much on its meaning

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Well, I think Tucho Fernandez had a lot to do with writing this one We may never know but I hope that information comes out

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Generally they have presented the title in two specific ways in Reference to Mary's divine motherhood insofar as she as mother made possible the redemption that Christ accomplished remember

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They literally say Mary could have said F forget it ain't gonna do it and somehow

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God couldn't have saved the world What a mess that is that's simply not true but or in reference to her union with Christ at the redemptive cross again

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Mary is there So's John is John co -redemptrix or co -redemptor because he'd be male.

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No, of course not Yeah, she's there. Oh, she must have suffered all the women were

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All the disciples that John was suffering too But nowhere does any of the

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Apostles give any idea where in all of the teaching of redemption in the

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New Testament Does anyone go and remember Mary suffered for our redemption at the foot of the cross?

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They don't say it because that's not the case This is called is a

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Jesus. It's called anachronism it's called taking stuff that developed hundreds of years later for reason that have reasons that have nothing to do with the

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New Testament at all and Reading it back into the New Testament The second

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Vatican Council refrained from using the title for dogmatic pastoral and ecumenical reasons

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St. John Paul the second Oh Referred to Mary as co -redemptrix on at least seven occasions his personal model told us to assume

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Maria Talk to Maria's totally yours. It was on his papal coat of arm

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At least seven occasions particularly relying this relating this title to the salvific value of our sufferings

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When they are offered together with the sufferings of Christ to whom Mary is united, especially at the cross

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Oh, so now we're going to you know super carefully exegete the context of what

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John Paul the second said and and make it that way we can sort of limited You When Roman Catholics sit there and say anybody can do anything with the

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Bible you need to have an infallible interpreter So now we have a hundred volumes of what the

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Pope's and councils have said and People can interpret them differently. Oh, but we have someone to tell us what it means.

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No, you don't Your last Pope would have been burned by your church in 1600

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You don't have someone to tell you what it means They may tell you now, but like I said 30 40 years from now

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It's reverse and I believe that sola ecclesia is what you believe.

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Whatever. We're told we're gonna believe and Let's just stop lying that does this has anything to do with the

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Apostles at all because it has nothing to do with anything they ever taught and You know it

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You know it In the feria for meeting on 21st

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February 1996, which is not a apostolic council Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who was the prefect of the then congregation for the

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Doctrine of the Faith Also known as the Inquisition was asked whether the request for them from the movement

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Vox Populi Maria Medici, which is what this is. This is the very that's the return address this group so in 21

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February 1996 so even before I wrote this Ratzinger was asked about the movement that this represents

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To define a dogma declaring Mary as the co -redemptrix or mediatrix of all graces was acceptable in His personal votum.

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He wasn't Pope yet, but he was head of the Inquisition. He replied negative the precise meaning of these titles is not clear and the doctrine contained and then listen is not mature a

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Defined doctrine of divine faith belongs to the depositum fide

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That is to the divine revelation conveyed in Scripture and the apostolic tradition

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However, it is not clear how the doctrine expressed in these titles is present in Scripture and the apostolic tradition

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Well, it's not present in 96 if it's not clear in 96 You need to understand something

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Need to understand John Henry Cardinal Newman doctrine of development. It could become clear because Historically, they would say well the reason it was 1950 before we defined bodily assumption

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Mary Was it hadn't yet been made clear So the reason no one was preaching it in 1000

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AD Was because it hadn't yet been made clear so a thousand nine hundred and fifty years later

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It becomes clear Really? So the church that tells us well, we're the primitive church.

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We're the church of the early centuries. We're closest to the Apostles But stuff has to sort of cook a lot

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It takes it takes 2 ,000 years for us to figure this out But it was taught by the

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Apostles, but nobody understood it and so now we can teach it and It's like are you serious?

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I do really you don't see how circular this is. You don't see this is just an elaborate way of Saying we get to define whatever we jolly well, please and blame it on the

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Apostles This is what sola ecclesia is all about What do you want to say?

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Oh, yeah, they'd be doing the exact same routine I'm sorry, folks.

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You're stuck with sola ecclesia. Just step back take a breath and realize I Simply have to believe whatever

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I'm told and if it's changed 40 years from now after I'm dead, it doesn't matter.

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I Just believe what I'm told right now. That's it There is no apostolic tradition Nothing nothing, it's all right here or it's nowhere and Every time someone tells you but we have the opposite rats in we have the apostolic tradition

40:43

Buncombe Ridiculous and you're proving it You're proving it every time y 'all talk about it.

40:51

You're proving it so However, it is not clear how the doctrine expressed in these titles is present in Scripture.

41:00

Yeah, because it's not And the apostolic tradition this guy became

41:06

Pope Okay, he became Pope But yeah, no, no negative.

41:13

We shouldn't do that later in 2002 He publicly voices opinion against the use of the title the formula corey

41:19

Dempster X departs To too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings

41:31

Ratzinger was brilliant. Okay, he was he was he was a brilliant theologian completely wrong, but no one can question his incredible intelligence and so how can he sit there and Uphold the bodily assumption of Mary as a dogma defined by the church and then say this about that The Roman Catholics listening rich says we got a bunch listening in the channel, okay to all of you listen to what he said he said

42:02

It departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings

42:10

What language of Scripture? Do we have for the bodily assumption?

42:17

zip zero nada It can't give rise to misunderstandings

42:23

Same thing with the Immaculate Conception. I can show you seven popes who taught against this

42:29

What? That there's no coherence here There is no consistency here

42:37

This document has turned a big old spotlight right on the key issue of Roman Catholic authority claims

42:49

You got no place to hide There are no shadows on this one, so what you were you okay.

43:00

All right he says and therefore gives rise gives rise to Misunderstandings everything comes from him

43:09

Christ as the letter to the Ephesians and letter to the Colossians in particular. Tell us I Know this wouldn't catch anybody else.

43:16

Okay, I'm weird But I know the German theologian theological tradition from which

43:22

Ratzinger came And that tradition Paul didn't write Ephesians or Colossians They're only canonical because the church says so but they're written by a different community

43:34

That really does impact things and to how you interpret stuff Mary too is everything that she is through him

43:43

Mary Wally would say that He'd agree with that the word co -redemptrix would obscure this origin

43:50

You know what? I hope Mary Wally responds I would

43:55

I would But I'm not gonna say be disappointed. It's not like I'm oh,

44:01

I hope that big fight didn't know I Honestly think I know this book pretty well, it's been years since I read it

44:08

You know, I wrote this book and that's pretty much the last time I looked at it. It's been years but This new document and again, it had to go through the hands of tutor

44:20

Fernandez. He's the head of the Inquisition, right? Um, he has the same position that Ratzinger had back then talked talk about Two people with different theologies

44:32

Wow Every time somebody goes, but we're so unified. I just want to go. Oh, please you just don't have a clue

44:43

Anyway Anyway while Cardinal Ratzinger Did not deny that there may have been good intentions and valuable aspects in the proposal to use this title

44:55

He maintained that they were being expressed in the wrong way that's

45:01

That's against Mirabal. Okay, that's against this group. No question section 20 the then

45:08

Cardinal Ratzinger referred to the letters to the Ephesians and the Colossians Where the vocabulary and the theological dynamism of the hymns present present the unique redemptive centrality of the

45:17

Incarnate Son in such a way as to leave no room to add any other form of mediation

45:24

That was my argument here, can you believe 26 years later

45:29

The Vatican has just put out a document that makes my argument against Mirabal Hello But we are unified we have we are all on the same page with all this now.

45:48

We're on the same page with you Well, okay, the

45:57

Reformation was right about the authority thing, but no one was talking about this at the time of the Reformation That's one of the things

46:03

I want to talk about that. I I guess I'll get to on the next show Was this

46:09

Joshua Charles guy I want to go through this this exchange he and I had

46:17

Because it again just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the circularity the inability of Roman Catholics to do church history because they've already been told by the church what they're gonna find in church history and Therefore when they go to it, that's what they have to find if they're gonna remain faithful to the church.

46:35

So anyways, I'll go back here To add any other form of mediation for every spiritual blessing is bestowed to us in Christ We are adopted as sons and daughters through him in him.

46:48

We have been graced We have redemption through his blood It's the whole thing Ephesians 1 which we've preached through many many many times

46:53

Colossians as well such praise the unique place of Christ calls us to situate every creature in a clearly receptive position in relation to him and to exercise careful reverent caution whenever proposing any form of possible cooperation with him in the realm of redemption well

47:13

Certainly agree with that But Rome's been doing it for centuries once you do what

47:23

Vatican to did and talk about her suffering at the foot of the cross once you use the language of immolation

47:31

That she immolated her son. That's what a priest does by the way Hey it the

47:38

The the horse has been out of the barn For centuries.

47:45

Okay, the horse is a is a skeleton in the desert someplace All right, and now you're closing the barn door

47:52

It really makes me go. Ah Why? What's going on?

47:59

We have to watch You have to watch it'll probably someone will go. Oh Okay now, you know probably two years from now all of a sudden last the pieces will fall into the puzzle like oh

48:13

Okay. All right. We get it So here's here's the kicker section 22.

48:19

This is what's got people They are going what given the necessity of explaining

48:27

Mary's subordinate role to Christ in the work of redemption Mary volley and this movement

48:36

Tried as best they can to say we're not I Mean the whole there's a whole discussion here about how co -redemptrix does not mean equal whole discussion they knew this would be a major objection and I obviously reject their defense but now the

49:00

Pope is to If the if the papacy were being consistent here, there is an entire universe of Marian doctrine and dogma that has to be reversed you want confusion about who

49:17

Jesus is Tell the world this guy didn't have a clue what he was doing.

49:24

Tell the world. They don't have to fear Jesus How about that? How about we start there?

49:34

given the necessity of explaining Mary's subordinate role to Christ in the work of redemption and This is in italics on the

49:41

Vatican web page It would not be appropriate italics closed to use the title co -redemptrix to define

49:51

Mary's cooperation There's the big deal.

49:57

I don't know if we're gonna get to read down to the next section where it addresses Mediatrix, but it would not be appropriate

50:06

Emphasized to use the title co -redemptrix to define Mary's cooperation So you're saying

50:13

John Paul the second who used the phrase? You're telling us now that His context was different and limited and therefore acceptable

50:26

But we can't use it in its most obvious meaning and that is

50:34

Mary's cooperation in bringing about redemption. That's exactly what

50:40

John Paul the second and I'm reminded once again Years ago,

50:45

I think it was right around when we first used this this studio for the first time before it was painted It was all white

50:52

Anyway, rich is embarrassed if I even talk about Yeah, yeah, um,

50:57

I think it was in here that's what my mind is associating it with um, oh

51:06

Man, what was it? I'll come back to listen to this

51:14

The title risks obscuring Christ's unique salvific mediation and can therefore create confusion and an imbalance in the harmony of the truths of the

51:25

Christian faith But what I say in the book

51:32

I can I have to change a few words the title obscures

51:37

Christ's unique salvific mediation and Therefore does create confusion and an imbalance in the harmony of the truth is the

51:45

Christian thing. It's nice to hear. I told you so Especially when it comes to the

51:52

Vatican Okay. All right For there is salvation. No one else for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved

52:01

Okay, if you believe this Then you need to stop these people running to Mary in fear of Jesus If you don't do that, this is a bunch of garbage it means nothing

52:17

Zero zip nada. I even know why it's there other than maybe

52:23

Some ecumenical movement you've got going in the background you make maybe you're all working on some big

52:30

Reunification of East and West Wow, wouldn't this be incredible? The schisms and 1054 healed.

52:37

Whoa. Whoa Is that what's coming Possible but if you continue to allow this you

52:46

You're doing nothing Not for anybody. Thanks.

52:52

Okay When an expression requires many repeated explanations

53:00

To prevent it from straying from a correct meaning. Oh You mean like perpetual

53:08

Virginia Mary Immaculate conception while the assumption

53:14

Like things like that that have to be explained over and again How come I've talked to so many Roman Catholics didn't even know what the

53:20

Immaculate Conception was about couldn't even define it Has to be explained.

53:27

That's why we need to get rid of it shouldn't use that terminology. You've dogmatized that terminology

53:34

That's not it the argumentation of this document you just you're just like What on earth

53:41

I Mean again, I reject all of this But once you once you head down that highway so far away from the

53:50

Apostles at least when I look at that I go Wow Hmm interesting.

53:57

It does seem like these guys the

54:02

Miravalli guys they've got the better argument and The actual sitting papacy

54:09

Which I remind you fairly new Pope And I remind you he was chosen fairly quickly.

54:17

I Remind you that we pointed out for years Francis was stacking the

54:22

College of Cardinals With his own acolytes. Are we hearing?

54:29

Pope Francis speaking from the dead. I Very high chance that that's the case when an expression requires many repeated explanations to prevent it from straying from a correct meaning it does not serve the faith of the people of God and becomes unhelpful in this case the expression co -redemptrix does not help extol

55:01

Mary as the first and foremost collaborator in the work of redemption and grace

55:07

For it carries the risk of eclipsing the exclusive role of Jesus Christ Do I need to read the prayer again?

55:18

Do I need to read the prayer again? Save me from the world the flesh from Jesus because by one prayer from you

55:30

He will be appeased That's what you've got to deal with You got to deal with the fact that you've had

55:36

Popes for centuries Saints for centuries that have taught that Mary is the neck that turns the head of God's grace and All grace comes through her if you don't put out another document that says and by the way

55:54

God's grace is free and It does not come solely by Mary If you don't put a document up says that these are empty words, they're just pixels on a screen

56:14

For it carries the risk of eclipsing the exclusive role of Jesus Christ son of God made man for our salvation who was the only one capable of offering the of Offering this the father a sacrifice of infinite value

56:28

That was my argument Based on first Timothy 2 when

56:34

Miravalli tries to say that Mary can fulfill that role of Intercession like you ask a friend to pray for you.

56:43

I said the problem is as it is said right here They the papacy today is agreeing with my argument from 1999 that the reason that Mary can intercede that the reason

56:59

Jesus can intercede for us and Mary cannot is because Jesus actually has a ground for intercession in his sacrificial death and What the

57:10

Marian people do is they literally try to say but Mary almost died at the cross and therefore

57:16

That's her foundation. That is not even close to a foundation and certainly utterly unknown to the

57:24

Apostles do do So let's okay

57:32

We skip down to Mediatrix kept Whole bunch of stuff about the

57:39

Eastern Church Interestingly enough the biblical statement about Christ's exclusive mediation is conclusive

57:45

Christ is the only mediator There is one God and there's one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus who gave himself ransom all first Timothy 2 5 -6

57:51

The church has clarified this unique place of Christ in light of the fact that he is the eternal infant son of God Hypostatically united with humanity assumed.

57:59

This is exclusive to Christ humanity exclusive to Christ Thank you.

58:05

Do I get any royalties off of this? And the consequences derived from it can only be properly applied to him

58:13

Yep, ding ding ding ding ding you got it in this precise sense. The incarnate words role is exclusive and unique Given this clarity in the revealed

58:23

Word of God Called scripture Special prudence is required when applying the term mediatrix to Mary in response to a tendency to broaden the scope of Mary's Cooperation to this title.

58:34

It is helpful to specify the range of its value as well as its limits Okay, I'm not gonna be have time to read that get to that Looks like we'll have to spend some time next time and this would sort of fit honestly

58:48

With the response to Joshua Charles, that's two that we want to want to get to but man

58:57

You can't get much more current Than a papal document that was released this morning

59:04

By the Vatican and I I hope you see why this is important You know, you know sad thing years, you know

59:13

Either I have a really bad floater or I've got a little tiny gnat in here this but this buzzing my eyes It's one of the two it's it's fun when you get old because you're not sure which one it is

59:22

Is that a floater? I don't know. It's moving pretty fast. Um The sad thing is here to be honest with you most of my fellow evangelicals

59:33

I've used all sorts of terminology over the past hour that they're like what? What are they talking about?

59:41

because while many Roman Catholics can't define The Immaculate conception properly

59:50

You can count on one hand the number of evangelicals who can

59:56

Or who have any idea why they don't believe it? So I imagine a lot of folks are sitting on X today going

01:00:05

Something weird is going on. I'm not really sure what it is. Yeah Something weird is going on.

01:00:12

I'm real toys about it toys about it So hey, I hope that conversation up to this point has been useful

01:00:19

I do think it would be good, you know The media mediation stuff lets us that's really central to get into the gospel.

01:00:25

So I'm gonna leave this right here we will get to it on the next program and Also the

01:00:33

Joshua Charles response and we'll just tie tie those things together next time I knew

01:00:39

I wasn't gonna squeeze this into an hour. There's no way Reading all that other stuff in the process.