Timothy Pierce Interview

No Compromise Radio Introduction and Galatians 2:5

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.

�But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Timothy Pierce’s Background and Ministry Path

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and it is a rare thing for me to have somebody actually in the studio audience, and I have somebody in the studio audience tonight, a dear friend and a man that I officiated his wedding, Timothy Pierce.

Timothy, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Thank you. Now, Timothy, I met you, I think, when you were courting Stephanie, your wife. Well, you weren�t courting her at the time. By the way, this is a weird studio, so you can�t really look at me while you talk.

You have to look that way when you talk. We should be doing a Facebook Live thing right now. So we met here at the church, but you got married down at St. Andrews. Is that where you attended church?

Give me your background. Yes. So, well, I grew up in Papua New Guinea. My parents were missionaries there. So.

Stop right there. What was the weirdest thing you ate in Papua New Guinea? Sweet potato. That was the weirdest thing. Yeah, we were wild.

Wild. No boar or anything? No. I mean, pigs. Okay. All right. I�m pretty sure it wasn�t even a boar, just a pig. Okay. So you grew up in Papua New Guinea? Yeah. We had bugs, but not on purpose, just if they ended up in the flower.

Okay.

Good. And so your parents were with New Tribes? Yep. Okay.

And how did you get to America? Well, when I graduated, we came back. My parents have six kids total, so we were stair-stepped down. They didn�t want to just be basically spending money on plane tickets and not even staying in New Guinea.

So they moved stateside, and we just stayed over here. I went to Minnesota to study band instrument repair, and then I came down to Florida and got involved with St. Andrews.

Band instrument repair. What�s the most difficult band instrument to repair? Because I�ve broken many a sousaphone, baritone, and trumpet. Saxophone.

Saxophone is the worst. Especially when you learn to repair it while listening to jazz.

Absolutely the worst. Did you know I saw Miles Davis live? No. All right. Do you know who Miles Davis is? No. Well, he�s the famous jazz guy, yeah. So then you moved down to St. Andrews, and you attended the church there at St. Andrews, right?

Yep. And people would know about St. Andrews for how? How would they know about St. Andrews?

So St. Andrews is where the church that Dr. Sproul founded. And I guess for me, I was able just to�I didn�t really know much about Dr. Sproul when I came down there. I had read The Holiness of God, but that was about it.

Didn�t know why he was important or what he had done for the church. For me, the biggest thing was because I was singing in the choir, I got to see the back of him when he would preach. So it�s phenomenal.

The back of Dr. Sproul is amazing. But the important thing there is that we have a big pulpit there, and he would have to climb up into the pulpit to preach. And I got to see him toward the end of his ministry there.

And he was just determined not to�just to finish the race well. He was determined to finish the race well. So when we started coming, I would sit in the choir, watch him walk up, and he would stand there and he would give his sermon and walk back down and sit with the other pastors.

Then after a while, his health went down. He started climbing the stairs and sitting in a chair. They would bring a chair up for him and he would deliver his sermon. Later on, he would have oxygen, climb in, take the oxygen off, climb up, sit and speak.

And then toward the very end, he would actually bring the oxygen in with him and preach with the oxygen just in the background. But just his sense of, I'm going to continue to preach until the Lord calls me home.

And that's what I decided that that's what I want to do with my life.

Reformation Bible College and Sacred Music Training

So did you know that when you went to Reformation Bible College? Is that what it is? RBC? Yep. Okay. Yeah. And did you have any idea of that when you were going to RBC or you just thought, well, I'll just generally study.

I know you're into music and stuff like that. Tell us about that.

Yeah. So I first found out about RBC when I was in Minnesota, actually, which is weird because my parents were already in Florida, in Sanford, where RBC is located. But I first found out about it because my, it's a secular college, but my brass repair teacher was a Ligonier subscriber and he told me, oh, your parents are in Florida.

Well, they should check out this church because he knew I was a missionary and he knew my parents were looking for a church. So they went to St. Andrews and through that, they found out about RBC. So after I got my certificate in band instrument repair, I headed down there for a degree in sacred music.

Okay. Now you and I talked about that just a few minutes ago, a degree in sacred music. I find that fascinating because you're the only person I've ever met with a doctorate in sacred music. So what'd you have to learn?

Because I think it's fascinating because to be a good writer, you need to have good theology. So you had to probably study a lot of biblical theology classes and systematic theology classes.

Yeah. We, the program there, at least for sacred music, they don't have it anymore. They phased it out and they wanted to focus more on theology. But the program for sacred music included the theology classes they have, the biblical classes they have, and then several music classes.

So I focused on voice and choral conducting, some theory, stuff like that. Didn't learn logic because you don't need that if you're a musician.

Three Components of a Hymn: Music, Poetry, and Theology

Tim, when you think of music and writing hymns, I know you told me you've written 12 hymns. Give me a few hymns that, and again, this is no compromise radio, so you can step on her toes. Tell me what you think are some of the worst hymns because when I pick bad hymns, I would only pick probably the lyrics being bad, you know, some type of Unitarian battle hymn of the republic.

That's how I would pick it. But you probably pick bad hymns, not just on lyrics, but on music. Would that be true?

Yeah. There's basically three aspects to a hymn. You have the music, you have the poetry, and then you have the theology that's behind the poetry. So you can, I think you can disqualify a hymn based on any of those three aspects, though of course, the theology comes first.

If you can't sing the theology, though, then what's the point of having the hymn?

Good. And so give me a hymn that we would all know. That is a fail in all three categories. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if you'll find one that fails in all three. Okay, two.

This is why we do this radio show right here. This is inquiring minds want to know.

Right. My favorite example of a hymn that, or at least a worship song that I don't like, includes the line, gotta get my worship on. I think that's the one that fails as far as theology is concerned. A lot of times you'll have ones that just don't say anything theologically.

So what they might say are true, but it's not actually telling you anything. So you have to, and how does it help? But then if you go too far on the theological spectrum, you have to have hymns that actually are relevant.

So if I had a hymn on the lapsarian debate, nobody would want to sing it even if it was singable and it wouldn't really help anyone.

How about something like Psalm 136? It has the refrain over and over and over for a total of 36 times. It repeats this refrain at the end of the sentence, for his steadfast love endures forever. So verse one, give thanks to Yahweh for he's good.

His steadfast love endures forever. So 36 times it says that. When somebody says, well, you don't want to have a song with a lot of repetition. What do you do with Psalm 136? How do you process that, Mr. Sacred Music?

Yeah. Well, repetition itself is not wrong. If you look at that psalm, between each, his steadfast love endures forever. They give reasons why. So you're engaging the mind and also the emotions. And that's one of the neat things about singing.

It almost makes truth truer, which is not actually possible, but you're engaging the heart and your mind together, and you almost learn theology a little bit better that way.

How to Sing in Corporate Worship

Tim, I like that answer, and I'm glad you're here at the church. Tell our listeners a little bit about how you would coach someone to sing better. So for instance, people show up for corporate worship and they have a hymnal in front of them, or maybe there's a music screen with a bunch of lyrics, and of course the Lord has given us our voices and some sing better than others, but I think everybody could be a better singer.

What would be a couple of just hints to have a person sing better on a Sunday morning for corporate worship?

Well, number one, you don't want to really think about how you're singing. That defeats the purpose of worship. You're singing to someone. You're singing to God and you're singing to the other people, teaching the other people.

So you don't, if you're thinking, how do I sound? That really defeats the purpose of singing in corporate worship. If you want to sing on your own, sure, think about how you sound. Number two, breathe.

A lot of people try to sing without proper breath support, and they can't sing as high, they can't sing as well, and they end up wearing out their voice.

Good. I'm reading Ephesians chapter five, be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another, interesting translation there with ESV verse 19, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart.

So you have the both horizontal and vertical. Timothy, I think most people think when they're singing, they're only singing unto the Lord. And in fact, they are singing unto the Lord. But tell our listeners a little bit about why it's important for us to sing to one another and how that could either encourage or support other folks.

Right. Well, there are basically three aspects to singing in worship. You have praise, you have prayer, and then you have preaching or teaching. And it's that teaching aspect that allows you to sing to one another.

For example, one of the songs that Moses wrote at the end of Deuteronomy is written just to remind people of the things that the Lord knows that they're going to forget. But teaching, it's... I don't want to say this because I'm sitting next to a pastor, but some of the times you learn your theology better from music because it's repetition.

You're remembering what you say. And I go out of service with the last hymn running through my head, not necessarily the entire sermon. So we learn through singing.

Well, it was Arius who knew that he could change the hearts and minds of Trinitarians by music and little ditties and songs and memorable things. And of course, Luther knew that as well, that he could reinforce positively doctrines of the Reformation by using the right kind of lyric and song.

The Pulpit, Scripture Reading, and Preaching at St. Andrews

Let's see, what else did I want to ask you? Oh, Timothy, when it comes to St. Andrews, tell our listeners about those pulpits and lecterns. And I think there's something, they're like two different ones, right?

Was one for scripture reading and one for preaching?

Yeah, they had one that was the big one that you had to go up steps and it was in the middle. It was basically designed to elevate the preaching of God's word so that everybody in the congregation realized that the preaching of God's word is prominent.

And when you hear God's word, you have a sense of you're hearing something that's authoritative because you're looking up a little bit and he's not in the center of the room, but he's in the center of your attention.

The other one was where the pastors would read scripture, mostly do their prayers, stuff like that. And then that was also used if they had a chapel service or something like that. They typically didn't use the main pulpit, they reserved that for worship.

Whenever you heard Pastor Brooke Parsons behind the scenes, did he ever break out into one of his old band songs that he was in, that famous boy band?

No, no. But we did one time have a fire and I think that's the closest we got to smoke and mirrors in the church.

Steve Nichols, Sinclair Ferguson, and John MacArthur at St. Andrews

We here at the studio, at the radio, are friends with Steve Nichols and he's been here at the church and I see him regularly at the Shepherd's Conference and other places. Give me like a behind the scenes Steve Nichols story, something we wouldn't know, but we need to have the inside scoop on.

Well, he taught a vocation class for me. I don't know if there's not, there's not really a behind the scenes story, but the neat thing, he also attended St. Andrew's and he's very relatable. He's just another person and sometimes you see these guys and they've got their doctorates and they're writing books and you think, oh wow, this guy doesn't have time for me.

But he was really good with names. He was really willing to take time for people and he would just stop and talk and I really appreciated that.

I saw Dr. Nichols at the Shepherd's Conferences last year and I think I was with a couple young people, my son and somebody else, and I just said, you know, three books that are, you know, you've got to read no matter what, this, that, and the other.

And I think one was Holiness of God by Sproul or Chose My God and some other things. And he just, he came across, Steve did, as very pastoral and very approachable. I think you're right, yeah. Any other big shots you see come through the pulpit there that would preach, Sinclair Ferguson or anybody like that?

Yeah, Sinclair Ferguson preached, Dr. MacArthur came and preached one time. The pulpit is actually too small for him. So he's like, the pulpit itself is big, but he was towering over the pulpit because of the platform.

Now, our listeners might not know, but it was because of you, I got permission to preach the gospel. It wasn't a Sunday, but it was at your wedding from that pulpit. Did you see the back of my head or the front?

No, that was probably one of the few times I've not seen the back of a preacher's head from that pulpit.

So it was a nice change. So I think you had to get permission for a Baptist to officiate the wedding at St. Andrews, right? And so we paid Parsons off. And I almost put on his Genevan gown in the background, remember?

Yeah. Well, I don't know if he would have liked that. No, probably not. And then you had to get another permission from me to stand in the pulpit to preach the gospel because you wanted to make sure all your friends and family members who would attend would understand about the Lord Jesus Christ and His saving grace.

Right. Again, I wanted to elevate the preaching of the word of God and the gospel, even in something that wasn't a service or an official worship service. Good.

Seminary, Pastoral Calling, and Presbyterian-Baptist Identity

Timothy Pierce today on No Compromise Radio. Timothy and his wife Stephanie have moved up to Central Mass and are going to be members here at Bethlehem Bible Church. And I am, I guess I get a lot of money for this, but I'm going to be his pastoral mentor.

I never asked you how much the money part was. Oh, I don't know. I think it's, I don't know. It has zeros in it. That's good. So tell our listeners about your desires and goals, the school that you're going to attend, and then how we here at the church relate to you in that.

Yeah. So I'm attending Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. I'm just kidding.

Joey Pipe is the president now, right? Yep.

Okay. And they've just announced a new president for next year, Dr. Masters. And I just started there, just taking three classes. And my goal is, I have a very strong call inwardly to be a pastor. I just have the pastoral desire.

I almost feel like that I can't do anything else in the sense that I wouldn't be satisfied if I was doing anything else. So I'm going to seminary to study, and then I'm up here to learn a little bit, some of the behind the scenes, how to be a pastor, how to preach, get some mentoring.

Yeah.

So that's what I'm doing. How about this whole Presbyterian Baptist thing? Are some of your friends down at St. Andrews worried that you might have some Baptist contagion?

Well, I started attending St. Andrews as a Baptist, came out of RBC as a Presbyterian, and then I decided to come back to a Baptist church as a Presbyterian. So basically, just, yeah, probably nobody thinks I made a wise decision there, but that's okay.

We have a lot of... St. Andrews is a very mixed crowd, so it might even be something like 50 -50 Baptist and Presbyterian.

Well, when I was down there for the wedding and I had a coffee with your pastor, Pastor Parsons, I thought it was very fascinating that he was talking to the leadership there and the elders, and how do you move from the death of R .C., right?

I mean, this is very difficult, right? You have somebody who has been gifted by the Lord and used by the Lord, and has the ability to attract people who are both paedo and credo Baptist, right? And who would be premill, postmill, amill.

And so R .C., like many other excellent pastors and preachers, they have the ability to do that because they stick so close to the Word, and they spend so much time doing their homework and their exegesis, so when you hear preaching you think, oh, I can listen to that, learn and follow.

And I don't know if I would want to be in Pastor Parsons' shoes or not, but I did know after I met with him that day, he's the man for the job. And so I'm very thankful for that, even though he doesn't follow me on Twitter.

I don't follow you on Twitter either.

Okay, good. Well, that's part of the mentorship. If you want to write, it's info at nocompromisedradio .com. Timothy Pierce is going to be helping here at Bethlehem Bible Church, so you might have him on once in a while, or you might hear him on, rather, the radio show.

I've already learned so much about hymns and components and stuff like that. Very fascinating. So far, everything you've said has three components.

And so you are a Baptist. Yeah, yeah, except a five-point Calvinist, but you just have to add another two, unfortunately.

Hillsong, Christian Liberty, and Worship Discernment

How about if I said to you something like, some of the Hillsong songs are good theologically, they're not heretical, and therefore, why can't we sing those good songs from Hillsong in our worship service on Sunday?

I think that's a fair question. Yeah, I'm not totally familiar, I'm not incredibly familiar with Hillsong. The problem is a lot of songs have connotations that aren't included in the actual song. So for example, if I were to play a prelude, just beautiful prelude music, but I included the hymn to The Hobbit, you would no longer be preparing your mind and heart for worship because you were thinking about little short men with hairy feet.

And so with some of the Hillsong songs, they include connotations. Also, they can draw you into listening to some of the other stuff, which isn't as good.

It's interesting because I think if you're at home and you wanted to listen to a Hillsong song, that, of course, you do whatever you want, you're at home and you have the liberty to do it. But I think it's different, even as we talked about earlier, Tim, when I pick a song from a institution, organization, song printing company, I don't know what you call them, but they have songs with not just debatable doctrine, oh, you're Amil, I'm Premil or something like that, but heretical things and word faith things and hyper charismatic things, then I don't want to say to the church, oh, that's a Hillsong song, even though it's good because they're going to then buy the rest.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Anyway, any time you have now, we've got about four minutes to address how the Lord saved you. I know you told us about the call to ministry and you want to learn how to preach from a Baptist.

How'd you get saved? I mean, you've got parents who were missionaries and you just regularly heard the gospel. Tell us your dramatic conversion story.

I was slain in the spirit.

I always ask Timothy, what's more dramatic? The homeschool kid at 15 who gets saved or the murderer who gets saved at 35. And whether you're saved from self-righteousness or unrighteousness, it's an act of God, right?

Yeah, exactly. I heard the gospel at an early age. I remember just having a strong conviction of guilt, but not fully understanding what to do with it. I thought the way that I was saved is by confessing.

So I would confess to God all my sins and then also to my parents. And they, I think, got a little bit fed up with it. We had, I don't even know if they can remember this, but we had designated confessing times because I came to them so often.

So right before bed, I could come and lay it all on the table, but I couldn't just do it all the time because they were just like...

Do you know what? Maybe that's why you reformed because that was Luther, right? With his mentor Stoppitz. So I want you to know, because I'm going to be your pastoral mentor, if you have those times that you need designated...

Designated confession times. I'm going to use the name of that German who was the man who was Luther's leader, but I'll use it as a verb instead of the man named Stoppitz, I'll just tell you Stoppitz.

That's the easy way. Two minutes to go, Timothy. Tell me a little bit about the paradigm we discussed offline, revelation and response when it comes to corporate worship. What's revelation?

What's the response? Why is that important? Yeah, so when we worship, it's not just us coming to God to give Him something nice to listen to. We're actually responding to God. God calls us. He seeks us out to worship Him, as it says in John.

And then we come to Him and we actually start by hearing the Word. Worship is a dialogue. So He speaks to us. We hear the Word. We hear the Word explained. We respond to Him in song. We hear the Word in song as well.

And we respond to Him through giving. We respond to Him through prayer. So it's not a give and take, but it's a response.

Excellent. I just want you to know, this isn't Jesus right here. That's Mary. Oh, yeah. That little doll. I think people want it to be Jesus, but I just made it up as that's Mary because it's more feminine than anything else.

But I don't know why it says this little icon I have on my desk. It says strength. Strength. Because Mary was strong.

She was very strong. You can't sing a magnifica and be weak.

Well, yeah, that's exactly right. It's almost like, you know, Mary the strong. The other thing that I think is going to happen over time, I think Timothy's going to be able to help us with some of these musical kind of issues and theologically thinking about music.

I don't think we've done that at No Compromise Radio. So probably in the future, I'm going to offer up maybe some of his services. If you are going to have some questions when it comes to being on a worship team, leading music on Sundays or something like that, we want to make sure we can serve you in any way we can.

Timothy Pierce, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Welcome to Bethlehem, I mean, Bible Church. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.