They Have Done Away With the Cross — David Wilkerson

This message is one of the Times Square Church pulpit series. It was recorded in the sanctuary of Times Square Church in Manhattan, New York City. Other tapes are available by writing World Challenge, P .O. Box 260, Lindale, Texas, 75771, or calling 903 -963 -8626.

None of these messages are copyrighted, and you are welcome to make copies for free distribution to friends.

They have done away with the cross. They have done away with the cross. Go to Galatians, the sixth chapter, please. The sixth chapter of Galatians. I'm going to read one verse, and then we'll proceed.

One verse from Galatians, the sixth chapter, verse 14. But God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. If you have a King James, will you read it with me again, please, everybody reading with me?

But God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Let's pray. Jesus, I want a glory this morning in the cross, your cross, Jesus.

We pray that that cross be lifted high in Times Square this morning. We glorify your sacrifice. We glorify your name. Lord Jesus, bring us to the cross, to the crisis of the cross. Lord Jesus, we pray that you would open our eyes and give us understanding this morning that we'd be never led away from the cross.

We'd never be led astray into the idolatry that's sweeping over this land and the world. Oh, Holy Spirit, bring forth a pure, strong, healing word this morning. We love you, Jesus. We thank you for your presence in this house.

Let the glory of the Lord be upon us. Let the anointing of the Holy Spirit take this word and let it find its healing mark in all of our hearts. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. You know, in this sophisticated age, it's hard for us to understand the idolatry of the Old Testament.

It's incredible when you read that intelligent human beings could worship graven images that they've graven out of wood and stone and silver and gold and say, this is God, and worship that piece of stone or that wood.

In fact, the scripture talks about those who would go out into the forest and pick a hardwood tree, cut it down, and bring it in and cut it in half. Half of it, they would bake their bread and cook their food.

The other half, they would get an engraver and engrave a hardwood statue, put it in the home, fall down before it, offer sweet cakes before it, praise that piece of wood and say, this is my God, this is my deliverer, save me from iniquity.

It's hard for us to understand that. It was the sin of idolatry, however, that angered God more than any other sin in the Old Testament. God was so incensed, His wrath was poured out upon every idolater, every child of His that turned to idolatry.

Idolatry in the Prophets and the New Testament

Jeremiah said, the children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, the women knead their dough to make cakes to the queen of heaven, to pour out drink offerings to their gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Therefore, pray not for this people, neither lift up a voice or cry or prayer for them, or make intercession for them, for I will not hear they, I will cast them out of my sight. Now, that's God's declaration against idolatry in the Old Testament.

But I'm telling you folks, God hates idolatry just as much in the New Testament. He despises it and it brings down His wrath upon any generation, this modern generation that's gone into a new kind of subtle, very powerful idolatry.

We don't see people kneeling now before carved images. You don't see that kind of unsophisticated idolatry. What we have in America now is an idolatry, I believe, that anchors God far more than any Old Testament idolatry.

This idolatry is sweeping America right now and it's sweeping the whole world. The scripture warns us that there will be ministers appear in the last days who are coming as angels of light, but they are actually ministers of Satan.

Now, this is shocking. This is something you and I have to deal with. If you are a Christian living in America and you're hearing about reports of revivals, you're hearing reports of God's moving in different parts of the country, better be careful where you go.

Better be careful under what spirit, because the Bible said these ministers are going to be transformed as angels of light. They're going to preach another Christ, another spirit, and another gospel. And if you don't have discernment, you can get swept up into an idolatry that will damn your soul.

There are ministers who are clever. There are ministers who appear to be as angels of light, but they're under the manipulation of a spirit that is not of God. And folks, multitudes, I say millions of Christians now, are into idolatry and they don't know it.

They have been seduced into idolatry by these ministers of light, preaching another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel. Now, think carefully what Paul is saying here. There's going to appear in these last days ministers who seem to be honest.

They're going to have the right words, but they're ministers who are under the manipulation of the devil. They're introducing another gospel. They're bringing people under the influence of another spirit.

It appears to be the spirit of God, but it's not the spirit of God. It's of another spirit, another gospel. Paul saw it happen. It was beginning even in his day. He said, I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ to another gospel, which is really not.

But there are some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we are an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The Gospel Without the Cross

That other gospel is a gospel without a cross. It is without the cross of Jesus Christ. They who preach this gospel, this other gospel, who are under this other spirit, who preach another Jesus, have done away with the cross of Jesus Christ.

There is no cross. I don't care what anybody tells you about a revival. I don't care what anybody talks about a moving of the Holy Spirit. Any fellowship, anything that calls itself church and does not have the cross of Jesus Christ at its center, if there's not the preaching of the cross of Jesus Christ, it's anathema.

It is not of God. It's of that other spirit. Any worship, anything that identifies itself as the church of Jesus Christ is blatant idolatry if the cross is not in the very center and uppermost. The cross and its demands and its hopes have been the very heart of the gospel.

You take the cross of Jesus Christ out of any teaching, out of any church, out of any fellowship, and you have nothing left but chaff. You have nothing left but another spirit and another gospel. It is not of God.

God won't touch it. He says, I have nothing to do with it. I don't care if there are millions involved. I don't care how loud your praises may be. I don't care how successful you may be. If the cross of Jesus Christ has not been the door through which the people have come, it is not the work of God.

Where this other gospel is being preached, the churches may be packed. In these idolatrous churches, you'll hear all the right words sung. You'll hear all the right words spoken. This word sin is mentioned in passing.

The theological terms are referred to, such as the Holy Ghost and holiness. And even the cross may be talked about in historical terms. Yes, Jesus went to a cross. He died. He shed his blood for sins.

But the reality of the cross is not presented to the people. The crisis of the cross is not preached. The confrontation of the cross has not been preached. It is possible for ministers to stand in the pulpit, for example, and give wonderful, flowery messages about the Holy Ghost, and the man not even know the Holy Ghost.

Historical Jesus Versus the Saving Christ

I have sat under preaching. I have listened to a man years ago who pastored. He was agnostic and pastored one of the great churches here in New York City. Wrote a number of books about Jesus. No one preached more about the kindness of Jesus, and the humanity of Jesus, and the goodness of this prophet that he called him.

But he didn't believe he was God. He didn't know Jesus. But he flattered him. And people sat there and said, in fact, he was an absolute agnostic. And nobody, in fact, my mother gave me one of his books.

And I thought, wow, what a wonderful vision of Jesus, until I found out he didn't even believe Jesus was God in flesh. And it's possible to stand before a congregation and preach, speak with tears about the blood that came from his side, and how they beat him.

And it can be, it sounds so tender, it will sound so loving. But be careful, folks. If it is only about historical Jesus, and if the confrontation is not there about our sins, if there is not a confrontation, if it does not bring you to the crisis of the cross, it is not the preaching of the cross.

Now, folks, you're going to have to follow me closely, because you may think this is off the mark. If you don't hear the mind of the Holy Spirit on this, there's a whole new generation now of smart young ministers.

They're bright, and they're intelligent. They're very capable. They're building huge complexes that offer people everything from daycare to spas, bodybuilding classes. They offer recreation, and entertainment, and family events, and musicals.

And it's all high technology. It's non-threatening. It's contemporary. The messages are illustrated by drama. The sermons focus on how to cope with problems of life. And folks, those are not the things that grieve the heart of God.

It seems that God has a lot of patience with a lot of flesh. It seems like he endures a whole lot of foolishness and well-meaning flesh trying to promote the gospel. God seems to be so patient on those things.

But one thing God will never endure, God will never allow, and that's to put aside and cast aside the cross of Jesus Christ and its demands. That is idolatry that does not confront the congregation, everyone who calls themselves by the name of Jesus, if it does not bring them to the cross and make them face the demands of the cross, and the death of the cross, and the victory of the cross.

It is not of his Holy Spirit. Jesus said, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me. That lifting up was the very moment they nailed him to the cross, and they lifted that cross down into that hole.

And he was lifted up before the whole world. That's his crucifixion. That's the lifting up of the cross. That's Christ dying for sin. God looked down one day on this sin-sick world. He saw a society, he saw a people lost, bound in prison houses, a society and a generation about to self-destruct, full of doubt and unbelief and without hope.

God sent his own son, and Jesus came and took on the frailty of human flesh. And he died as a living sacrifice for sin. And then he says, come unto me, all you that are weary and heavy laden, and I'll give you rest.

The Cross as the Only Way to Freedom

And that's the invitation, that's the call of the cross of Jesus Christ. And that's why he came. He came to a sin-sick world, a world that was sick of their lust, tired of the chains, tired of the lies and the cheating of adultery, fornication, all kinds of habits, chained by the forces of hell.

And Jesus looks out over this sin-sick society, ours included, all down through the stream of time. There he is on the cross, and he says, come thou unto me, everybody sick of sin, heavy laden with these chains.

You're tired of dragging your sins around, you're tired of the sleepless nights, you're tired of the weariness, because sin is a hard taskmaster. Sin wearies the flesh. The fear of slander, the fear of exposure, the lies that cover up our sins.

What a awful taskmaster sin is. And then Jesus says, come unto me, all you that are weary and heavy laden, I will give you rest. He said, there's no other way. You see, the cross was plunked down right in the middle of the broad way to hell.

And God said, this is the only door to eternal life. There's no other way but through the cross of Jesus Christ. There's no deliverance from sin and its power. He died not only to forgive us of our sins, Jesus died to break the power of our sins.

The cross is a cry to every soul. It's saying if you're sick of sin, if you're weary of sin. You see, the church of Jesus Christ is not a supper club. It's not an entertainment complex. It's a hospital for sin sick souls.

And when sin sick souls come in, and they are flattered in their sins, and they're comforted in their sins, and they're not made to confront the cross of Jesus Christ, that is blasphemy. And someday those ministers have called in the scripture angels of light are going to have blood on their hands.

Repentance, Discipleship, and the Offense of the Cross

Now, this is a serious charge I'm making. I'm telling you that there are ministers who have done away with the cross. It's a serious charge that multitudes of Christians go to churches now that are worshiping in idolatry.

It's a serious charge that many pulpits are filled by ministers who are clever agents of the enemy of another Jesus. You say, Pastor, what do you mean that they have taken away the cross? They have not taken away the references to the historical Jesus or to the actual crucifixion because it's possible to give all vivid details and still not present the cross.

It's possible to preach masterful sermons about the cross and absolutely bypass it and climb up some other way. Because you see, the cross is man's confrontation with his sins. It's man's confrontation with his lifestyle.

The cross is offensive to every man or woman who's made peace with his sins. It's offensive. If I stood in many of these contemporary churches, these sinner-friendly churches in America who are striving to make people comfortable and bring Jesus in the back door, so to speak, if I were to stand there and say, and preach what I am preaching to you this morning, I tell you, two-thirds of the people would leave offended and not ever return.

The preaching the cross is an offense to those who are comfortable and cozy with their sins and they want Jesus and their sins. They want to believe they are justified, even though they have no intention of laying down their iniquities.

They say, Jesus paid it all. I can enjoy myself. They're not ready to lay down their pet lusts and their sensuality. As one well-known writer wrote, I read it last week and wanted to weep. This writer said, don't get too bothered by your sins.

After all, the Bible doesn't say much about it anyhow. That teacher's on television every week. When Jesus said, I am the way, I am the door, he speaks of his cross. You cannot be saved. You cannot enter heaven except you come by way of the cross.

He that entereth not by the door of the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same as a thief and a robber. And the minister is a thief. The minister is a robber who's climbed up some other way and made a breach in some place and saying, come with me.

You don't need to repent. You don't have to have godly sorrow for your sin. The big thing is that you fulfill the law if you just love one another. Just love God. There's no repentance, no tears needed.

Just love. I was listening to the news this morning on 880, I believe it is. And they had what they called church news. And a church in, I think it's Los Angeles, Church of Christ or something like that, has just appointed two homosexual lovers as pastors of their church.

And they were interviewing the pastor and they said, people are coming into such a wonderful fellowship of love. Everything is love. It's a love trap. As long as you love, you can indulge in homosexuality.

You can shoot your drugs. You can do as you please. Just love. One day I'm going to preach that message. I call it the love trap. Jesus said, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

And whosoever does not bear his cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. Cannot be. I don't care what your theology may be, sir. I don't care what you think of the power of love. Jesus said, unless you deny yourself and come by way of the cross, you embrace my cross.

You cannot be my disciple. Let me show you what I mean by the confrontation of the cross. In fact, I call it the crisis of the cross. Let's take a man. Here's a man who's fed up with his sins. He's getting deeper and deeper into the clutches of a lust or a habit.

His sin has brought him sorrow. He doesn't even enjoy it anymore, but he can't help himself. He keeps going back to it. He's covered his sins. He's lied about it. He's cheated. He's promised himself a hundred times he'll never do it again, but his word has no power.

He can't stop. For a while, he submerges it, but it comes back with more power months later. He knows that he's going to have to stand before a judge one day, and he goes through his life fearing exposure and scandal.

Sin has drained him, shackled him, deceived him, brought him down to a weariness that he can hardly exist. If you want to see one of the saddest sites in New York, go down 8th Avenue here, block from here, and go down about five blocks, and look at all the porno shops, and look at those slaves, those men walking into those places and coming out, and look at those faces.

I came up there from Isaiah House yesterday, and I saw these miserable men coming out of these places, shoulders bent, sadness in their eyes. They're slaves being driven by their sins. They're weary. They get no pleasure out of it.

There's no pleasure in it anymore. Sin loses its pleasure. That's the problem. The more you go into lust, the more you go into pleasure, the less value there is. It loses its value completely. It loses all pleasure.

The Crisis of the Cross and Death to Sin

So this man I speak of is now at the end of his rope, and in his sadness, the Holy Ghost sends the word, thank God for the gospel of Jesus Christ, the redemptive gospel of Jesus, and the word comes and says, Jesus died at the cross, and that's when Jesus comes and kneels by this man, and he whispers by the Holy Ghost, come to the cross.

Come kneel with me. They come to the cross of Jesus Christ, and the Lord says, there is a way out. There is deliverance. There's a place of victory. There's a place of peace. Run to the cross. Beloved, when anybody kneels at the cross, you're not going to hear an easy, soft word.

Not at first. Because even though the cross is the door to life, you're going to hear about death. And even though the cross is the door to newness of life, you're going to hear about denying, self-denial.

You're going to hear self-denial. You're going to hear about death. You see, when you come to the cross and you kneel before the Lord, you're going to face the crisis of your life. This is what we are.

I say we're missing in this church, even. There are many that come forward to this altar who are not coming to a crisis of the cross. Because you see, what happens when you come to the cross of Jesus Christ, that's the moment you have to face the consequences of continuing in your sin.

That's when the Holy Ghost comes to you, and repentance is not saying, Lord, I'm wrong, as much as it's saying, Lord, you're right. You're right in your word about my sin bringing death upon me. You're right about my sin finding me out.

You're right. Yes, I know I'm wrong, but more than that, Lord, I come to the cross to agree with you about my sin. I agree with you, Lord, that if I go on, you're going to expose me. I agree, Lord, that my sin, if I continue, will destroy me and ruin me, my wife, my family, my children.

I'll be ruined. And you come to a crisis, and the Holy Spirit will urge you right to the brink to this crisis where you say, I cannot continue in my sin. I cannot continue and have the Holy Ghost. I cannot continue and have his blessing and his favor.

I'm going to lose everything. It's a confrontation with your sin. That's where the battle is fought. It's before you get to the cross. It's the Holy Spirit dealing with you. Self-denial, that's not some heartache you have to bear.

That's not some infirmity of your flesh. Not at all. I'll prove to you this morning that his cross is our cross. His death is our death. His resurrection is our resurrection through identification and union with Christ.

But folks, the real cross that you bear, and this was what Paul said when he said, I die daily, I have come to the conclusion that I deny my right to continue in sin and be a Christian. I deny that I can live like this and have his favor and be eternally saved.

I agree with the word of God. I deny all of my justifications. I deny that I have a dispensation from God that I'm different because I care for people and I do good things and I can continue on the side with some little dark spot in my heart.

It's a confrontation that said, sin ends today. Now, at this point, if I die with Jesus, I come into the glory of resurrection and newness of life. If I walk away from the cross now, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, if I harbor and pet and toy with my sin and walk away, it's going to kill me another way.

For the wages of sin is death. And you've got to come to that place where if I continue in sin, I'm dead. Physically, spiritually, in every way, I'm dead. Something I've noticed, I've lived long enough to know it to be a true pattern.

Almost every minister friend that I knew that walked away from his wife and ran off with somebody or a preacher's wife did it. I can't name anybody that I know that lived more than five years. Cancer, car accidents, the wages of sin.

Crucified with Christ and Freed from Sin's Dominion

You see, ministers of the gospel who've been so challenged by the cross and so confronted by the cross and confronted by that cross. This is the end of side one. You see, what Jesus is doing here this morning, I'm preaching the cross, but I'm preaching it in a way where you're going to be confronted by the Holy Ghost with your sins.

You see, that's how the cross is done away with. It's not just words about a lovely Christ bleeding. It's the fact that he bled and died to bring your sin sick soul and mind into glorious liberty and freedom, break every power and chain of sin.

And oh, God help us, I would not want to stand in front of a mass of people who came in some other way, never were confronted about their sins, never preached about their sin. Folks, in many churches, sin is never shown to be exceeding sinful.

It's just a word with no power, no conviction. I would not want to stand in front of a whole people still living in adultery and fornication, blowing smoke in Jesus' face and nightclubbing and cheating and living in sin and coming to a beautiful, quiet one-hour worship service where the drama puts me at ease to my sins.

God, I'd rather die. I would rather die. He said, you deny your right to live in sin. You deny any dispensation that you're special. Then you deny that you have any power to deliver yourself. And folks, that's where many people cannot come.

That's a self-denial that many people have never been able to make. Because you see, you hear with Paul, I die daily, you hear him say, I'm crucified with Christ and all my lusts have been crucified with him.

And you say, that's what I want. Here we are at the cross, sin sick, weary of it. We've been confronted. We know we can't go on. And then you read, he that's dead is freed from sin, from Romans 6. You read Romans 6 and you see a man who's planted into the death of Jesus and he's dead.

Sin has no more dominion over him. You say, that's what I want. But how do I get his victory into my life? How do I get the victory of the cross into my life so that I'm not sinning and confessing, sinning and confessing that miracle round I want off?

You know, rather than deny self, we say, I have to do this. I'm so convicted of my sin, whatever it takes, and we're going to bite the bullet and we're going to try to deliver ourselves. When I was a young preacher, I got, I was so, I was reading the lives of Ter Stegen and some others who had been in such simple lifestyles.

I thought, Lord, that's what I want. I could be a powerhouse for you, Lord, if I go to my closet, I'm going to take out all my clothes and give them away except maybe two changes. And I'm going to sell my car and get the cheapest car I can find, an old used car, and no more steak, I'll eat hamburger, funny, it's from the same cow, but you feel better.

And I'll sell this nice house and I'll find an old house that's unattractive, and Lord, I will so simplify my lifestyle because one of my favorite men, still alive at the time, from, at the time he was in Philadelphia, and he only had one suit and he lived in a little room and he spoke with such authority, I said, Lord, I'll be a powerhouse if I can just, really what I'm saying, if I can suffer enough, if I can just get a hold of my flesh and bring it under here and be more ascetic, I will be a powerhouse.

The only problem about that time, my hero got into false doctrine and started destroying many, many lives by his false doctrine, got into metaphysics, and the Lord said, no, you got it wrong, that's not what I'm talking about.

It's not your victory, David, it's mine. The cross is not your victory alone, it's mine first. You have to come now and embrace the cross. You know, folks, the crisis passed, the crisis will pass when you say, Lord, I am fed up with my sin, I know I can't continue, and I want it finished.

It ends now. God, I have no power, I've come to the place, I deny my rights, I deny my abilities, now Jesus says, now follow me, and he takes us, he says, now, look at that empty cross. He says, now, you embrace the cross, you embrace my victory, because you see, when we get saved, we are in Christ, and when we're in Christ, we're into all of his victories, we're into everything that happened to him is ours, he did it all for us, hallelujah.

At the cross, Jesus broke the controlling power of sin. Paul said, I may know him in the power of, whose resurrection? Not mine, that I may know him in the power of his resurrection, in the fellowship of his sufferings.

Faith in the Cross and Newness of Life

Now, the word says, at this point, if I believe in the victory of the cross, if I believe Jesus broke the power of sin, let me show you what the word says. Now, if I'm to agree with the word of God, listen closely, if I'm to agree with the word of God that my sins are exceedingly wicked, I agree with him that I cannot go on with him, I agree that if I go on, I'll die, and I agree that he will expose it, I agree with all this, then I'm to agree with all the good things the cross offers as well.

How do you know you're saved? How do you know you're saved? By faith in the word of God. You have trusted your eternal salvation into the hands of faith. Is anybody here saved by any other way? Are you saved by your works?

No, you're saved by faith. How do you get victory over sin? How does the resurrection power, the newness of life come out in you, other than believing what God says in his word, that when you come to him and confess, and you repent, and you agree with his word, and you've confronted the demands of the cross, then you say, oh, Jesus will take you by the hand.

That's where you go into union with Christ and say, Lord, from this moment on, I'm trusting my life in your hands. I'm trusting you to convict me, to hold me, and lead me, and guide me by your spirit.

It's absolutely giving yourself to the power of the cross. You embrace it. Take up the cross. Embrace it. Embrace this as the only way to victory, by faith, in the overcoming power of Jesus through his shed blood.

What does the Bible say when you embrace the cross? It says, I am dead now with Christ the sin. The word says, I am crucified with Christ. The word says that I am resurrected in the newness of life. The word says, now, there's no dominion of sin over me.

The word of God says, I can now do all things through Christ who strengthens me. The word of God says, I'm a free man. The word of God says that I can now yield my body into the service of the Lord and my members as instruments of righteousness.

He says all of that in Romans 6. Says it all through the word of God. How? By my struggles? No. By my just saying, Lord, I accept by faith. My salvation, I accept by faith that when I need it, the power will be there.

That is your word. I may stumble a few times by my unbelief, but I'm going to hold on that ultimately victory is mine because I'm going to believe you till it comes. I'm going to trust you. My part is to believe what his word says about me now.

Folks, I stand here before you now and I agree. I agree with God's word to me because I've come to him acknowledging my sins and my failure. I acknowledge that I have no rights. I acknowledge that sin, if it's continued in, is going to bring death, physical, spiritual death.

I agree now, Lord Jesus, to walk with you. I put my future and my life into your hands. Take my sins, take my weaknesses, take my failures. You took it all, Lord, and you defeated the devil at the cross.

He has no power. He has no dominion. I believe your word, O God. It's by faith. I die by faith. I died 2 ,000 years ago at the cross of Jesus. I was resurrected back then. God saw me in his eye, in his historical eye.

He saw me down the stream of time. He saw you. He took all of us by the death of one man. We have all been reconciled to God. Oh, thank God for the cross of Jesus. Thank God for the cross. Thank God for its crisis.

The Altar Call and the Crisis of Repentance

Have you had your crisis of the cross? What about your present sinful condition? What about that one thing you say, oh, God, I want to be delivered from? There's deliverance for you this morning, but it's not going to come until you kneel right before him and you have this crisis with the Holy Ghost.

You let him speak to your heart and let him tell you, now, you can't continue. It has to come to an end. The finality, the cross is the finality of sin. It's saying, God, I agree with you. I can no longer, not for another hour, continue in my sin.

Oh, God, I'm weary of it. I bring it to you now. Beloved, that is what is not being preached. That's why we have such clever meetings, such showmanship, everything but the cross. But you see, the cross is only for those who are sick of sin.

It's an offense. It's an absolute offense to anybody in this building, anyone hearing me. The cross that I've preached this morning is an absolute offense to those who have learned somehow to make peace with their sin.

And they're able to say, with the lie in the Old Testament, I have peace, though I walk in the stubbornness of my own heart. It's a false peace. It's a damning peace. And I promise God that in the days ahead, I'll preach the cross.

I'll preach it's crisis and it's confrontation with sin. This church was founded on that kind of preaching. This church was founded. The first three years, we preached almost nothing but repentance and the cross.

And we're still preaching it. Because see, we're not just trying to pack the pews here. We're not trying to pack seats. We're looking for a Times Square Church Holy Ghost parade on Judgment Day, the great white throne judgment.

We're looking for a people who, even as they know that they finally stand before his throne, are rejoicing and they are hugging. And they're saying, oh, thank God. I sat under the preaching of the cross.

Thank God there were ministers that confronted me with my sins and told me I can't get away with it. And then told me how Jesus loved me enough to take me into his death, into his burial, into his resurrection, and bring me up into newness of life.