Q & A Regarding Being A Mother — Annie Poonen

Yeah, okay. Mom, first of all, this is a tremendous privilege for me to get to talk to you and you mean the world to me and this is a special privilege for me to do this on Mother's Day, so I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you for the privilege that I can sit next to my son and so that it takes away my nervousness and he's there to support me. Hi, I'm right here.

Okay, so we'll have a couple of fun questions and a couple of serious questions too. So, which one is easier? Dealing with boisterous children or dealing with boisterous grandchildren?

Grandchildren and the Freedom to Show Affection

That's a good question. Dealing with boisterous children, first of all, I didn't think you all were that boisterous. You are normal boys and you are growing up. You had so much of energy and I only found that you are getting stronger and I was getting weaker.

But a good thing I had that I had my husband with me to do all the, most of the disciplining part. My disciplining was like sorting of life, but I had my own ways of disciplining. And so I enjoyed, I enjoyed all the fun that I had with you all.

But now, dealing with the grandchildren, I think I have a good chance of making up what all I could not do with my children, I can do with my grandchildren. For instance, I can show them so much of love without the fear of spoiling them.

Even if they are spoiled, they're fathers, you all can deal with them. I don't have to correct them. All that I can say is I don't think your dad and mom will like you doing this. I'll have to talk to your mom about it or you check with your mom and dad before you do that.

That's all. I don't have to do much of the disciplining. I can show as much love as I want, I can spoil them. So I think dealing with boisterous grandchildren is a lot more fun. And you know when I'm in India, I dream, I dream of coming here and seeing my grandchildren and hugging them and holding them.

I plan all kinds of games I can play with them, all the games that they like. And I remember the things that they like to do. I keep it all reserved when I come here. So dealing with grandchildren is a lot more fun.

Sewing, Reading, and Gardening as Relaxation

All right, besides family time, what is your favorite non-spiritual thing to do, just in terms of fun, relaxation? I like sewing.

So I look forward to picking up my needle and thread or knitting or whatever I'm doing. That's very relaxing for me. And now that my children have all left home, I look forward to reading the medical books, which I didn't get a chance to pick up my, refresh my medical knowledge that much.

So I like to look forward and now with the internet and all the facilities we have, that's something I like to do because I know that it will be useful for me to help others and also it will keep my mind fresh and active.

So that's the second relaxing non-family thing. And the third is gardening. I like seeing the plants grow. I like to water the plants. Even when you go on a trip, the first thing I do when I get back is to see how the plants are doing and I pour some water for the plants and like I feel as if I have taken care of my plants.

That's my third relaxing.

Fears About Raising Children in the Faith

So what was your, a little bit more serious, what was your biggest fears as you were a mother of small children growing up and how did you deal with those fears?

I think looking back and we started having a house church at home and watching you children growing up, my biggest fear was that with all the strict ways and the teachings in the church and our high standards and my husband's way of putting things, thank you, my husband's way of putting things across it is very strong and he being a military man, the way he put it across, I thought how would the children, even if they are boys, how would they perceive it?

Will they be like a pastor's children who don't want to have anything to do with God or to become atheists or lukewarm or they become Pharisees, you know hypocrites acting like as if they're okay and not really wanting to follow the Lord.

All those fears were there. They were real fears because I thought if I'm too hard on them they might rebel and go away or if I'm too lenient, they might become worldly and I don't want that to happen.

That was a real fear and I found the four different, all four of you were growing and you had different temperaments. One was willing to obey, the other one said another one would have questions and you know, the ones who didn't have questions, later on they would have questions.

So my fear was would I do something wrong so that their personality either will be crushed or they be damaged for life or most of all if they leave the Lord and forsake the Lord, that was my fear. So how did I deal with that?

Thank God the children came one at a time so I could deal with them as they were growing up. Of course I prayed. I prayed and asked the Lord for wisdom and I only wanted to be committed and united with my husband.

I knew that if I'm not united with him and if I'm arguing with him and questioning with him that will be the most disastrous thing for our family. Our family would be split and my children would not listen, obey me.

Because I didn't want to submit myself to my husband. So first of all, I felt that I should, my walk with the Lord should be okay. I should commit everything to the Lord. I should live in submission to my husband and be united with him so that our prayers will be heard.

There's a verse which says that if we are not united then our prayer won't be answered. So we would pray together and our goals were the same. So our goal was that all four of you boys should go and be his disciples, the Lord's disciples and serve him.

That was our goal. So we had the same goals and we prayed together and then the rest the Lord did. I think I would summarize it like that.

Learning from Parenting Mistakes and Guilt

You talked about the fear of doing something that will damage the kids and all that. In that relation, I think as some mothers who may feel some ways in which they did feel, can you speak about where things that you may have said, you know, I think I wish I could have done things differently, lessons for the next generation.

And then how did you deal also with that fear, with the sense of failure or guilt?

Yeah, I think when the children were small, sometimes I would think like am I giving them too much of, you know, when they start, the first child especially, I think that oh, they are not getting enough nourishment and I would overfeed them.

And that was, I think, as the second and third month came, I realized that I should not force them to eat. They eat whatever was needed, how much was needed for them. So that's one lesson I learned and then also being a doctor, I thought whether I should give them medicine or leave them to help them to overcome the disease, I mean whatever small, not disease, illness, whether they would have the resistance.

You know, those are some kind of fears, but I'm glad that I didn't give them the wrong medicine and the wrong food. If I knew, if anything like that had happened, I used to think, suppose I had given them the wrong medicine and they are suffering for life, how would I have dealt with it?

I think I would have asked the Lord, please make up for my error and heal my child in spite of my mistake and pray more for them, but thank God that that didn't happen. But one thing I remember, when the children were growing up and we were having meetings in our home four days a week, three evening meetings and a whole Sunday meeting which would go on and on and some people would stay back for lunch, would come from distant places and adapt to prepare lunch.

And you know, preparing an Indian meal is not the same. You can't just go and get a packet from there and microwave. We had to start from scratch and cook. So then, sometimes when my husband was away, some sisters would feel like spending the day with me and they find out somehow that my husband gone for a weekend on Saturday morning.

They would finish all their work, but without any warning to me, they'd land up at home and I wouldn't have had any breakfast, lunch, nothing ready for them. And because they are there, I'd have to cook something for them also.

So, and I used to feel very bad, I'm neglecting my children. There's nothing, I hadn't even given them their breakfast and sometimes I wouldn't have even changed the diaper and this person has landed up.

So, first of all, I had to work on my own salvation. No grumbling, no murmuring, no self-pity, no bitter thoughts about others. Thank God for the teaching of the church. I said, Lord, I want to sanctify myself.

But you know inside, it was still not yet overcoming that inside. But then I said, whenever my husband goes, I should be prepared. I should finish all my work in case such things happen. I'd get up early, do the cooking, keep everything ready.

So, if my children had enough food to eat and then they would come. But then sometimes it would be a medical problem. You know, so I'd have the, I should find the medicine which they needed or the bandage or something like that.

And there were poor people. So, sometimes, you know, once one sister brought her child who had fractured her forearm and she didn't have enough money to go to the hospital and we have to pay for all the treatment.

So, I had to make a splint and put a blasto-paras bandage and all that and there with the children I had to do all that. But then I felt like I'm doing what the Lord wants me to do and the Lord will give me grace.

Then I thought, if I'm neglecting my children, what will happen to them? But now I see them, they all turned out okay and they are serving the Lord. Now when I see my daughter's-in-law doing the same thing that I am doing, I said, oh no, they're going through the same thing, but they're happily doing that.

So, I'm so happy that in the end everything's worked out well.

Remaining in India to Serve Family and the Poor

Why haven't you moved to the U .S.? With your special grandchildren.

That's a hard question to answer. I love my grandchildren so much and my children, but I think I love my grandchildren more. And I have 17 of them, so half of me wished that I could move here, but I have my family, my church family and so many poor children there.

I don't have the heart to leave them yet. I want to be there for them and to support them, console them, give them good advice, love them and whenever I come here, I try to take back something for them to make them happy.

So, right now I'm happy to be in India and come and visit you all.

You've got plenty of children in the U .S. too. How did you stay connected with your dad when you had smaller children? You were busy probably from before they get up to after they go to bed. It's an all-day exercise for mothers who have to take care of their children from morning to night.

What is anything you did to stay connected to dad in that time, husband and wife?

Maintaining Unity and Partnership in Marriage

First of all, I can say I didn't want to be disconnected with him. I didn't want anything to come between me and my husband. I didn't want anything that would bring a distance between us. So, you know, we here in the church, how to deal with all these things, to live in a harmonious way and not do things to irritate the other.

So, first of all, I tried my best not to be disconnected with God's help. Then at night and before your children got up, we got some time to talk together. Mostly about the children and the church matters.

And sometimes dealing with relatives also. Some pressures would come, but all those pressures brought us together, didn't make us disconnected. They made us connect because I felt like I knew that my husband was serving the Lord and I wanted to support him in that.

I didn't want to be a hindrance to him. Like for instance, if he was getting ready for a Sunday meeting and he has to speak, I didn't want him to think that he has to help me with the breakfast and getting the kids ready.

I felt like he should be free because he is serving the Lord. I want to do my part so that everything is easy for him. So the kids, the children's things are taken care of, the meals are taken care of.

As much as possible I could plan and do and keep it ready so that he'd go relaxed and he should not feel like, oh my wife is struggling, I should be at home to help her. He shouldn't have that heaviness about the home.

If at all there was a burden, it should be the burden concerning God's work or the church or something. Let that part he has to deal with, with the Lord's time. But anything concerning with the home, I felt that I should take care of.

And that way I would do my part in building the church and being connected with him. He always should feel that he has a helper near him or behind him or supporting him from behind.

Teaching Children Healthy Habits Around Food

So as you raise children, one of the big areas where parents struggle with it, at least I know my wife struggles with it, is in terms of food. Portion control or getting children to eat, all of those things that are related to food.

And then also as, you know, in this culture there's a lot of, I'm sure it's going all over the world, where unhealthy relationship with food affects the way children think. So maybe you can share with me your experiences as a mother but also as a doctor in terms of how to deal with children and food.

You can take it any way you want.

I already said that with my first few children I was tending to overfeed them and sometimes they'd throw up because I was forcing them to eat. But later on I understood how to deal with that. But I learned, I mean, over the years I decided that I should make meal times a fun time, not that, oh, all this, I have to eat all the spinach and all this and all that.

I tried to make it a little more interesting so that it would be easier for them to eat. So I'd say, okay, you finish the greens first, then you're done with it. Then you can eat the other things. So they would gulp it down with some water and then they would eat the other things which were needed.

My suggestion now would be all moms now have some access to material health, I mean regarding food, nutritional food, either internet or books or something. Go through that and see which are the healthy foods for the kids now, like too much fatty food and, you know, all that we should avoid.

And try to make as much as possible home-cooked food rather than eating out. When you eat out, you find that they compromise on healthy food and then, you know, everything concerning health. So try to make healthy home foods and make it like different varieties.

Even though you have to make meat and vegetables and things like that, give a variety so that they may eat the same vegetables but it will be in a different form. You know, either as a cutlet or as boiled or whatever, you know which way your children like it.

What else did you say? Yeah, I think if it's a teenager or adolescent girl, if I had, and she was having problem eating, I'd have to like spend time with her and tell her, you have to eat a certain amount of protein, I mean meat and vegetables and all and make sure that you don't overeat the things which are harmful for you.

Like when you go to choose the food, don't go straight to the ice cream section. Just take the things which are good for you, small portions of that. Don't take, fill up your plate with a lot of food.

Then you won't be able to finish it. Just take small helpings of what you can eat. Then you can go back and take, but minimum, I mean small helpings of the meat, small helpings of the vegetables and the other things.

And then finally, you go to the ice cream and then you think like, okay, I had ice cream yesterday, so today I'll take a little less. Like you reward yourself. I haven't had ice cream for one week, so maybe I'll take a little more today.

Like you teach your child, instead of making rules for your child, teach your child to make the decision. Yeah, now I'm going to reward myself with a little bit more of ice cream. I had ice cream in the past three days, so today I can do without.

So make the child take that decision that I'm going to be healthy. Because we are not going to be around for our children forever. One day they leave us or one day the Lord will take us away and our children have to take care of themselves.

So I feel that if you give them good guidelines and you tell them, these are the things you must have and these things you must not. And also tell them about not just sit and eat the wrong type of food, but do some exercise and encourage them, go for walks together with them.

I think that's it. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the overweight, but some people have that. Because in the place where I grew up, we had to walk a lot, I had a lot of work to do at home, being the oldest of nine children.

So my problem was that I needed to eat more food. But nowadays the children don't have that much of exercise. So encourage the children to play games, play games with them, and go for walks with them, go for hikes with them, and if you have some time, do things, sports and things with them.

Disciplining Rebellious Teenagers

So as you talk about teenage children, 14-year-olds growing up, who are growing stronger and stronger as we were growing older, how did you, and we were also learning to say no and be rebellious, and all those rebellious behaviors that all of us go through.

What advice do you have, or any lessons you learned, what advice do you have for other parents who are children of that similar age?

I realized that as my children were getting smarter, smarter than me, and they could do things like, those days there were no cell phones and things, thank God, so you all have to face that. I don't know how you'll deal with that.

But I knew that my children loved to play cricket. So that was the point in which I could poke them and hit them. So the punishment, I mean when my husband was around, he would do the disciplining, I was very thankful.

But sometimes he had to go out of town and I couldn't wait for him to come. When the children are smaller, when you are smaller, you remember I used to ask you to write a hundred times, I will not do this again.

And that will be like improve your handwriting. But then I found out much later, there were pages and pages of paper, I will not, I will not. So you just have to fill in the missing part and that will be ready made.

So I knew that you always, you are smarter than me. So I had to find newer ways of... Then I found that all of you like to play cricket in the evenings and that was the biggest event, I mean happiest moment of your life was when you come home from school and you can take the cricket bat and play cricket.

So then I said okay, because you did this today, you can't play cricket. Your brothers can play and you have to stay and come home and help me or stay in bed or something. So then some of you would plead and say mom, please give us a spanking.

I take the spanking and won't play cricket. So then my heart was too soft, I said okay, if you do it again, we'll have to take it seriously. So then each time I had to find different ways of disciplining.

So one day I decided I'm going to hide the cricket bat. So they're not going to find it. And I didn't tell anybody where the cricket bat was. So they came home and then they must have looked for the cricket bat and they didn't find it.

So I said okay, now let's see what they're going to do. And they put on their playing shoes and went out and there was a cricket bat and ball and they were playing with it. So then I thought okay, maybe some friend has brought it.

I must find out who's that friend who brings the cricket bat. I had to always think of ways of outsmarting. Then I found out they had a good cricket bat and a ball in grandma's house. My mother-in-law used to stay a short distance away.

Because one day she came home and she said, why didn't the children come to live with the cricket bat? Then I realized okay, they are smarter than me. They found a place where they can hide a good cricket bat.

So each time I was learning. But on the whole, you did well. Few days, but you know what I hated most was when daddy used to discipline. I tried my best to do the discipline myself because daddy's discipline was a lot more harder.

And if he said no playing cricket, there was no way. Maybe he'd say no playing cricket for a whole week. So I thought okay, make it easier for them. But on the whole, you took the disciplines well and you turned out good.

Relaxation Through Family Activities

Thank you. I don't know if I'd say I took the disciplines well. It's never easy. How do you relax? How did you relax when you were a mother with small children? How did you find times to relax?

Being with the small children was relaxing enough. I felt we could play board games together. They would all want me on their team. And they want us to win. Because when I was on their team, they'd make some allowances.

Okay, for mummy, we'll do this. And then we'd play games. That was my relaxation, being with the children. And then we'd go places together.

Yeah, I remember one of the special moments was I had eye problems from a young age. I remember going to Conora once. When we were in my mom's place, we walked and took the bus. And I got to experience a little bit of what my mom had to do almost every day.

I remember that very vividly. It must have been a small boy going to the doctor's office. I had to walk three miles.

It's a hilly area. So we had to walk three miles to school and three miles back. And on the way back, mom would have a list of groceries for us to pick up. And sometimes it'd be raining on our way to school.

And we couldn't afford to get our shoes wet. So we'd take off our shoes and socks and put them in our backpack or bag. And we'd walk barefooted. And it was so cold. Our feet, our toes would be blue by the time we reached school.

But all that was good for us. Made us tough and healthy.

Faith and Courage in Pregnancy and Childbirth

Any advice for expecting mothers? There's a lot of fears of the health of the child, the health of the mother, anxiety. What is any advice for them?

Of course, see the doctor regularly and take the doctor's advice. But all moms who are going to have babies, we have our fear of what will be the delivery like. Will everything be okay for the baby? And nowadays with the scanning and all that, you can find out a little bit.

But when I was having my children, it was a life of faith. But you know, I held on to a promise which the Lord, a couple of promises which the Lord gave. There's one promise, especially for those who are bearing children.

And I remember when I was expecting children, I laid hold on that promise. And that's in 1 Timothy 2, verse 15. It says, women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

So I held on to that promise. Lord, I do my part. I'll have faith in you. I love my husband and children and all those whom you bring across my path. I want to sanctify myself. I want to have self-control and not give way to anger and things like that.

I'll try and do my part with your strength. But I claim that promise that you'll preserve me through childbirth. So I want to share that promise with all of who are going to get babies. Claim that promise, 1 Timothy 2, verse 15.

And also Jesus said in so many, Jesus said many times in the Gospels, don't be afraid, don't be anxious. And that's like a word of the Lord. The Lord says, don't be afraid, I'll be with you. Don't be afraid of the future.

Don't be afraid of childbirth. A lot of things may happen to other women. Don't look at them, look at me. So I held on to that and Lord gave me strength. And the Lord will give you strength too.

Finding New Purpose When Children Leave Home

You know, I think you've said other times that the hardest time in your life, giving back, was when Sunil left for college. My youngest brother. So how did you deal with it?

Yeah, when my oldest son left, I mean he wanted to go and although he had got admission in colleges in India, he got a good scholarship and he even paid his airfare to go to study. So I said, okay, that's good for him.

And when the second one, I tried to persuade him, why don't you stay back in India, but he also wanted. And then something followed very soon. Then I thought, I'm not going to let Sunil leave. But he got a good scholarship too and he was leaving.

And I felt like I go out of my mind, he also leaves. Because I was living for my children, they were my life. And of course my husband is there, but we have each other. But if these children leave, I thought my heart would break.

But the Lord gave, and when Sunil left for college, my husband also had left to put him in college. So I was alone at home. And then that was good I was alone, because I could spend time with the Lord and I could ask Him and depend on His strength and ask Him what should I do now.

And the Lord, I came much closer to the Lord. I got time to read the word of God, meditate and got comfort from Him. Fresh experiences with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And the Lord showed me that you have other children here.

I mean there are other God's children here whom I can care and I can do all that I wanted to do. I wanted to take care of sick people. And I had very little opportunity when my children were at home. People in the church who were sick, I would care for them.

But then I had a friend who had his own hospital. And he was my classmate. And he used to often ask me to come and help him in his hospital. So I decided, okay, after my husband returns, we're going to pray about it and I'll go back to that hospital.

And I'll go to that hospital and work in every department and brush up my medical knowledge. So that gave me a kind of new ambition in life. Something to live for. And I had done my part and I said, Lord, I did my part for the children and I've given them over to you.

Now you take care of them and help me. And I ventured in this new going back to the medical, into the hospital and working in every department. It was a different language also, but the Lord helped me to pick up a lot and I got the confidence which I needed to take care of sick people in our village churches.

So that way I had something to do. And then I was so happy that my husband and I had more time with each other and we became companions and we needed each other as we were growing old together. And we depended on each other.

We had to remind each other what we had to do. And, you know, we do everything together. So if I cook something, there's nobody else. Like I didn't have to save anything for the children. So I take the first portion to him to taste.

Is it salty or is it good enough? And then we cook and we eat together. And somebody comes, I share with them. So it was a different type of life. And though I look forward to the children coming home, I enjoy life living with my husband and companionship with him.

So that's how the Lord helped me.

Forgiveness and Faith During Family Conflict

I mean, I know a lot of people know a lot of the blessings you have. But I think what struck me about you saying that Suni leaving home was the most difficult thing that you've gone through is because I think many of you know that your siblings and your family members took you and dad to court and sued you guys in a criminal court case, all that stuff.

So I was curious if you had any thoughts and reasons why you said that wasn't as difficult as Suni leaving home. Any kind of thoughts you had on that?

Yeah, we were a close family, my siblings and my parents and I. And I, being the eldest, we were very close. But after my marriage, I realized that my position is with my husband. And I want to be united with him and join him in what he's doing, in building the body of Christ.

So I knew where my position was. And I realized that my siblings didn't see eye to eye with what we were doing. So I felt sad that it was coming from them and not from other people. Then I said, if it was other people, maybe I would have hated them or not forgiven them.

But because they were my own siblings, I felt it was so easy to forgive. I shouldn't say the word easy, but God made it easy because I realized they are my flesh and blood. They are my people. I must forgive them.

So till now, I always have a heart of love for them and hope that they will change. And some of them have changed. But God taught me not to have any bad attitude towards them. Even now, when I dream, I dream of them coming home and I'm serving them and making them happy.

So I know in my heart of hearts, deep down, I don't have any bitterness or hatred. And I ask the Lord, Lord, help me to love them. But I always look at ways in which I can thank God. Even when something bad happens, I say, I want to thank God that it wasn't worse than this or it wasn't something else that happened.

And I look for ways in which I can thank God that it's not as bad as I should take it. So that has helped me. So when my siblings were troubling me in the areas which Sandeep spoke about, I said, I must find a way of thanking the Lord for even this.

I didn't want to think, oh, why did they do this? I've given to self-pity or anything. I said, Lord, thank God they left my children alone. Thank God it's not my children who are opposing me. If one of them was opposing me or rebellious or gone away or didn't have anything to do with me or cut himself off from me and my husband, that would have been the hardest thing.

So I thank God, OK, they are my siblings, but I have my children. And they are with me, and they are supporting me. And one of them, they used to write comforting things to us, sharing God's word with us and comforting.

One of them said, Dad, don't let this court case hinder you. Ten years from now, and actually in ten years' time, that court case was solved. But ten years from now, you shouldn't look back and say that this court case hindered you from serving the Lord.

You do what God has asked you to do and do God's work, and He'll take care of the court case. We got such good comfort and strength from our children. It was like brothers comforting. My children became my brothers, so that was a help.

And then the Lord, I can say the Lord comforted us a lot. He gave us many verses, words of comfort and strength that we tread on God's word. And all these trials seemed nothing because we thought whatever we have lost or whoever we have lost, we have the Lord.

If we had taken somebody to court, I think that would have been the most miserable time of our lives. Thank God, God didn't allow that to happen. Even people harmed us, we didn't have to take anybody to court.

They took us to court, let God deal with them. And even now, I pray, Lord, be merciful to them. Help them to realize what they're doing so that they won't suffer in your hands. Let them turn to you.

Seeking God's Approval Above Human Opinion

That's awesome. Thank you so much. Maybe we'll just wrap up with any last kind of comments or feelings or words of encouragement to so many different women going through different things or different states of life.

I think as a woman and as a mother, a lot of things affect us and influence us. One is the opinions of people, opinions of our relatives, opinions of what our friends say. And we have to deal with that and say, Lord, what matters most is your opinion of me.

Because once we allow opinions of people to affect us, relatives or friends or college mates or anything, once we allow that, we'll become a slave to them. Unconsciously, we'll be thinking, oh, I'm wearing this, what will people in the church say?

Or I've done my hair like this, what will my friends say? Or I didn't color my hair and all my other friends have colored, what will they think? Once we start allowing the opinions of people to enter our mind, then we become a slave.