Dispensationalism and the 12-Day War: A Deep Dive with Andrew Rappaport

Welcome to another edition of the rap report. I'm your host Andrew rap report the executive director of striving for eternity and the Christian podcast me of which this podcast is a proud Member. We are here to give you biblical interpretations and applications for the Christian life.

Israel, Dispensationalism, and the 12-Day War

What we have for you today is an episode that I was on with the bold Apologia Adam Parker who is one of the other Podcasts on the Christian podcast community and with that he wanted to discuss something that's been in the news quite a bit.

He wanted to discuss Israel Dispensationalism and the 12-day war. Yes, we will get into some of the kerfuffle over Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson big discussion they had on the Israel and what is or who is Israel so that will be coming your way right now on The rap report.

We provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of striving for eternity and the Christian podcast community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church Go to striving for eternity org.

You're listening to the bold apology of podcasts here. You can expect to find real conversation and dialogue centralized around the purpose for sharing the hope of Jesus Christ in light of theology apologetics and culture.

We hope and believe this episode will add confidence to your faith by equipping you with boldness to share the good news of the gospel. And now your host Adam Parker.

Hey there bold apology a podcast listeners, I'm your host Adam Parker. Thank you for tuning in to this podcast. I'm actually really excited to have an opportunity to talk once again with Andrew rap report.

Sometimes when I talk about him with other people I kind of call him the godfather of the Christian podcast community. I really enjoy His company being able to talk to him things like that. And one thing that is always Interesting when it comes to Andrew is the opportunity to talk to him about issues related to Israel geopolitics Politics in general things like that and this is gonna be a much more political podcast that I'm about to get into here because Really?

What I'd like to do is talk about Israel. I'd like to get into the topic of dispensationalism a little bit I want to talk about the 12-day war which Hopefully Lord willing stays just a 12-day war and is concluded.

We'll see how that goes You know how some of these things can be just regarding Israel and Iran so be praying for them be praying that it stays just a 12-day war and one of the things that you will have often heard when you listen to my Intro to my videos or my podcast.

It says that this is all done in light of theology apologetics and culture and this is a cultural issue and so Yeah, of course, we'll talk a little bit about political things and That's okay, and Christians should not be silent on these issues.

It's so important that we talk about these things. And so with that said I'm gonna go ahead and add Andrew to the stage Andrew thank you so much for Joining us. I'm excited about this conversation that really we're gonna be having here, so.

Thank you, well, thanks for having me glad to be back on the bold apology podcast. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Jewish Identity, Anti-Semitism, and the Genetic Fallacy

Like I said, I wanted to talk about Israel Dispensationalism and the 12-day war. I actually recently put up a post it was June 19th around the time the 12-day war really kicked off and I got a lot of pushback a lot of pushback in there from Christians and I'm not saying that Christians can't be opposed to Israel or you know, or anything like that particularly the nation-state or the political Entity that it is.

I'm not saying Christians can't criticize Israel. I'm not in that camp growing up as a kid actually being that I grew up in Pentecostal circles charismatic circles. I know what it's I When these people who are often Criticizing Israel because there are people who do when they are criticizing Israel.

They bring up the most extreme examples and I have seen and lived in the most extreme examples. Where Israel can do no wrong where you don't even have to give your life to Christ if you're a Jew. You can just be saved by following the law which it's impossible for someone who is Jewish to follow the law.

Not just because it's impossible but because there's no sacrificial system in the first place. I just point that out but but there's issues Related to that and I don't know if it's just a cultural swing in the other direction.

Because of the craziness that has been seen on some of these, you know. Media outlets like TBN, you know, they're real Really supportive of Israel and all of that.

But anyway.

We we get to the point where we're at now and I'm just noticing a huge change and I'm noticing a huge change of where it's like it's gotten to the point where there's a massive amount of Christian tolerance or even promotion of just anti-semitic anti-semitic.

Rhetoric in general is what I'm trying to say. And and so with that said would you just.

Take.

Sometime introduce yourself. One. One thing that I know I'm going to hear Andrew is There will be people Who will respond and say well nothing Andrew says is True because he's Jewish that's gonna come up.

It is it is it's actually quite sickening. And these people are Christians who would be saying this it's it's crazy. It's crazy, which is also. Those of you who are already prepared to say that I just need you to know that is a logical fallacy.

It's called the genetic fallacy. Fallacy, you cannot discredit someone's argument because of their ethnicity or or their origin. That's that's not how any of this works. But with that said Andrew, can you introduce yourself talk about some of the podcasts you do some of the work you do and.

Then we'll jump right into this discussion.

Sure, as you mentioned, yes, I am from a Jewish background. Many people say that that's why I'm dispensational. No, it's not we could get into that more. I am the president and executive director of both striving fraternity and the Christian podcast community.

And so striving fraternity is really a discipleship ministry. We try to do discipleship through many means through Christian podcast me we try to disciple podcasters help them improve and give them a way of Working together getting their their content out and as far as churches we go into churches usually churches.

We try to go to the churches where no none of the big ministries will go to. Because there's not enough money in it because they're gonna lose money and they're more about doing a business. So We're not we're actually into interested in doing ministry.

It's crazy idea, but we go to churches. There's there's smaller. Yes, I mean I've preached to the smallest size flown around the country to go to five people six people and. And I'm perfectly fine with that as a ministry where we want to help those smaller churches, so we come in and give them that big conference feel as far as Bringing in weekend seminars things like that.

We have an online Academy that people can take for free. That's how we make our money. Oh Wait, that doesn't quite make money. All right, so but yeah, they could take we have some courses out there they could take for free and so.

That's a little bit about the ministry to the points that you were saying. There's a lot of people who have been responding ever since really October 7th. I Have seen a ton of people more so with the 12-day war Which I kind of think Trump titled it the 12-day war for two reasons.

There was the sick six-day war that Israel had which just was to show how effective they were in their Warfare in their intelligence and the same here that was with Egypt and a number of other nations, right?

The Six-Day War, Iran, and the Rise of Anti-Israel Rhetoric

Yeah, I mean It really was kind of creative. I mean they they had people that had Had basically set up areas where underground where they would be able to Come in quickly to Israel and what Israel did was had a guy who worked his way up into the Senior level and convinced them to put a specific tree.

I forget what type of tree but it put a tree at. Each of the spots so would look more natural and and once they agreed to do that Israel knew exactly where to. All of their bunkers and so I mean now they're just shooting missiles through people's bedroom windows.

Yeah, I mean the accuracy and and they get accused of you know, they're there. They're you know killing families and you know. They're they're taking out hospitals and what we saw was the hospital in Gaza was taken out by people in Gaza That didn't have great weaponry and it just that one went awry now Iran hit a hospital in Israel.

I don't remember seeing that in the news, huh? Not none the American news, what do you know, but after October 7th and more so with the start of the 12-day war we have seen a lot of people in mostly reformed camp covenant the theology camp.

That have been pushing back on Israel and I think it's a theological argument that they're trying to argue for rather than a.

A.

I'm trying to think what would be a good word for it because they there's some that actually just reject the nation of Israel altogether and that's how far it has come and their their view that Israel is the church Has affected it so much that they they're they're just almost rewriting history.

Yeah. Yeah, actually and I.

Have heard some of the craziest craziest art like so and I know what you're saying to the coming from the covenantal perspective and of course, they're gonna be very opposed to the idea of modern Israel or Israel being reborn because God has rejected Israel in covenant theology, but.

But.

Even to the point where they're rewriting the history of Zionism.

You know a guy who I've had on my on my rap report podcast is You know Dale Partridge and I had him on my podcast talk about head coverings, but he's got a new book out called the Israel delusion Challenging Christian Zionism and reclaiming the church as the true Israel and when he posted this Online he said the Jews are not the covenant people of God we are we.

If we confuse covenant I dot Identity with ethnic identity. We will misread the entire arc of redemptive history. Now, here's the thing You that doesn't real change the entire arc of redemptive history.

It just Affects their view that they are Israel because the the covenant made with Abraham was not to his believing children. It was to his children. Right and it was from Abraham to Isaac to Jacob Jacob being called Israel.

What is Israel? It was the it was initially that lineage that became a nation and there's some people that deny That Israel is a nation today. That's how far they're going. They want to just deny. Oh Israel doesn't exist.

I had one person online who made the argument that there's no good reason. There's no reason we should be defending Israel and I said, how about justice? God is just they were Unfairly attacked and and it wasn't a military attack because they went after they went after civilians and folks.

Especially on the left. You don't want to make this point. Where did they attack? They attacked in Tel Aviv one of the most liberal cities in Israel. At a rave where there would be a whole bunch of drugs and and homosexuality and they The people that did the attacking said they were doing it for those reasons.

So they went after civilians. So this was this was Not just war. They went after it for all the liberals who are defending Gaza I think I just I think all these Americans who are here the leftists who are Supporting Gaza if they really want to make a difference go there see how long you last.

Because they would kill them quicker than the then those in Israel over their views because it's you know, and so You have people have gone so far in their arguments and I It's unnecessary. The fact that there is a nation of Israel today does not deny covenant theology.

No.

Or at least it shouldn't but in the minds of some they cannot handle that God would bring Israel back into focus and. Maybe I'll upset folks. Could it be that Trump? Donald Trump all the the the Christians.

Well, at least the dispensational Christians now covenant theologians don't like him. Could it be that he's gonna bring about the Antichrist? I mean, he's could he be the one that brings peace to Israel.

Just. But you know, it's interesting that you know, I have been seeing so many attacks on dispensationalists online for bringing up Israel as and They're the view of dispensationalism and premillennialism.

Everyone's all these dispensations. I do not see dispensationalists talking about Israel. I see covenant theologians attacking dispensationalists for talking about Israel and I'm going where are all these posts that you're all referring to?

Because I'm not seeing it. No granted. Maybe I'm not on enough, but I have a lot more dispensational friends than non dispensational friends and I don't see them posting it. I just see all the non-dispensational folks attacking us saying we are.

Covenant Theology, Marxist Thinking, and the Nature of Israel

Yeah, well to go to that too, I know that you said that it was more of a theological issue but Honestly, I and I think that's true.

But.

Honestly, I think there's a little more to it and I think it's a little more personal than what a lot of these covenantal brothers Would want us to believe especially if when you get further and Further into the more extreme way of talking that some of these guys have.

And you know, there's there's obviously also a Covenantal libertarian mix to it. I'd even throw that out there, too. They take it personal they take it personal that Israel exists that our country supports them.

And.

That we.

Give them aid that we work that our military works closely together with their military and. If you go far enough, there is this bizarre theory or conspiracy theory that Israel is part of this secret cabal to control the world and it's a Jewish cabal used to control the world and Take over the world and stay in in power.

Basically, which is interesting because I think Adolf Hitler had some pretty similar sentiments. But let's follow that for a minute. Some of these guys Not all of them, but some of them Even deny the Holocaust.

They'll deny the Holocaust. They will deny that Hitler was in the wrong bill. Deny that Is I have. I have talked with some of these individuals who will say that Hitler even had a point. So there's this growing rhetoric of anti-semitism coming from that Particular Persuasion, I don't think it's sourced out of it.

I'm not sure where the source comes from. Maybe you have some ideas regarding that but definitely this weird anti-semitic flavor of theology.

And I don't even know if that's the right way to put it. It's Marxism working its way in. It's Marxist thinking and and the very people who hear me say that are going there's no way I'm Marxist. You are you're practicing Marxism.

You're dividing a group of people and and their argument the reason is because well the the Jews are they have a lot of money. They control things. Do you know why Jewish people raise their kids to be doctors lawyers people of influence to positions where you make money?

Because their theory is that they make the money and I totally disagree with this. But this is why so many Jewish people support Democrats. The thinking is if they support the party that would be willing to be the ones that were willing to kill them.

They won't kill them because they need the money. That doesn't quite work. Right, but but the idea is that really at the heart of it.

Many.

Jewish families just like Asian families are very family oriented and so when you have a Majority people that aren't family oriented it affects How you know those children are gonna be well how well balanced they're gonna be how they're gonna be producing For their family as they grow things like that.

So a lot of it is the family and and they don't see the core differences. It's also the fact that The Jewish people are being identified separate from every other group right, so it's just everyone else in America and then the Jewish people and it's it's a thing where I Find interesting because they don't call this out with the Muslims who actually are looking to do exactly that.

Go to Dearborn, Michigan, they've taken over a town. They they have their their call to worship playing right in in Europe yet you the UK the governor the mayor of the Of London the biggest city in the UK.

I just read a report that he outlawed the the The bells and churches being chimed because Muslims find it offensive while they're playing their call to worship. First thing in the morning waking people up and it's like wait that country actually has a state religion Anglicanism, which is the church.

So the the state church can't play their bells to not offend Muslims. But Muslims can play their call to worship and and somehow no one's supposed to be offended.

It's right. It's bizarre. It is so bizarre it it is beyond me how.

That.

Can happen. It's like So open-minded that you have surgically removed your brain from your head and left it out of there. It happens because.

Then this is why I say it's Marxism they want something that someone else has. In the case of money that a lot of people don't like Jewish people because oh they have money. So it must be you know, I want and that's what a lot of the Marxism is.

You know, everything's unfair because someone else has something I don't have and I should have it I shouldn't have to work for it. They should just they should just give it I think theologically as as you see in Dale's title of his book.

They want to be that covenant special people that God had in the Old Testament and If God does something in the future with Israel, I think for a lot of them. They think well, then that means I wouldn't be God's special people.

No God has been really clear He was dealing with Israel. Israel right now is under God's judgment because he's working through Gentiles and So yeah, he's still working in Israel in a judgment way because of their idolatry and their sin and their rejection of the Messiah and He's still working with him.

But the fact that he's got a future plan for them. For some it's like oh, well, that means that covenant theology isn't well I would disagree with covenant theology in the way they come about the interpretations and this is why because what ends up happening is you're you're interpreting scripture through a covenant lens rather than interpreting the different genres of Literature the way the rules are laid out for them.

And that's why I'd be a dispensationalist because I I Follow the rules of language. What they will say as well. The Bible is a spiritual book. So it has to be interpreted in a spiritual way. My challenge with that is always well, how do you get to decide?

What is the spiritual way and what is not because when you go to the Mormons you go to the job? What you go to any group they do the same thing. How can you say they're wrong? How do you say? Roman Catholicism is wrong with their style of interpretation.

Which is where the Reformers got it from that's why I don't think it's right to call people that are in our camps Covenant theologians because covenant theology is came out of Roman Catholicism. What they hold is reformed theology because it reformed what the guy it got rid of the Magisterium and the tradition and look just at the scriptures, but they kept that same hermeneutic where dispensationalism was to step back and say Why don't we just be consistent with following the rules of language.

God gave us language for a reason. There's rules for language and we follow that now does it fit perfectly? No. It doesn't because there's times where God in his infinite wisdom. He has dual meanings for things He could say out of Israel.

I call my son Referring in the Old Testament to the nation of Israel, but in the New Testament referring to Christ. Now the difference there is I can say okay, you know when I I'm gonna see that spiritual ization or the dual meaning.

When I see it in the Bible.

Pre-Tribulation, Pre-Wrath, and the Meaning of Dispensationalism

Right, and I wanted to speak to that point on dispensationalism just to kind of clear things up a little bit because the automatic belief is if you support Israel you are a Dispensationalist and I'm not sure where you fall in this.

Andrew. I don't know if you're pre trib mid trib post trib.

I.

Know that you forgot one. Oh, what would I forget pre-rath?

Pro trip. If there's a road trip, you know for it to kind of like I'm pro millennial if there's a millennium all for it.

Pan trip.

I don't like the pan. Pan means it's all gonna work out in the end. No, like.

Yeah, it's gonna work out for some people.

For God's glory one way or the other. So I'm. So you are for pan trip then no hands out. I'm pro Pre millennial pre tribulation.

For folks who know those terms.

Okay, so that's where you'd fall. Is the pre trib sort of.

It's not an area that I out of all the theological areas. I teach on. I really don't focus a lot on end times. I think that I Personally believe that yes there's a lot of scripture that points to the second coming of Christ to all of these end times things and I think that there is so much confusion.

Debate discussion because it's not as clear as everyone wants to pretend it is and That's why the first coming was missed by the Jewish people because they were looking for what they saw in the second coming.

Yeah, and we have the advantage of hindsight there so we can go look that clearly was fulfilled. Yeah, because it happened 2 ,000 years ago and we have it recorded in God's Word. But they missed it and I think that when people are super super dogmatic I think it could be problems troublesome.

Yeah, so.

So.

Often when people are talking about Dispensationalism they specifically mean Pre-trib, which is which is why I wanted to clarify that with you.

Not always. Not only that it's more they think pre millennial, right? Well, yeah, you just say one thing real quick. Dispensationalism is not an end times. The theology, okay, it's a hermeneutical on how you interpret the Bible, right?

And when you're consistent with that hermeneutic you come to a pre millennial view. So it's a byproduct of dispensationalism, but so many people what if I say I'm dispensational they go. Oh, well, I don't agree premillennialism or I'm I'm ill and it's like that's nice.

There's nothing to do with it. Everything is spiritual. It's like saying I eat I eat fruit. Oh, I can't eat apples.

Yeah, well what I was gonna say what I was gonna say to that is It's it's not there there's what they they think they're talking about and There's the issue at hand. So people often think they're talking about those pre-trib Premillennial premillennialist now there is historic premillennialism which in In historic premillennialism You don't have to have the same conclusions as someone who believes in pre-trip.

Now with that just just throw out there. I am with you. I Don't throw all my cards into the eschatological the you know Category. I'm really into soteriology. I'm really into Christology. I'm really I love typology I love it.

I Don't get big into Eschatology, I love ecclesiology, but I don't get huge into Eschatology, but I kind of know where I fall into that. I actually Don't know if you've heard of pre-rath. I'm sure you have I'm more into the pre-rath view and I think it kind of Synergizes pre-trib mid-trip and post-trib quite beautifully actually In such a way where you kind of make sense of all of that and then everyone can get along and you can delete some of these Facebook groups online that.

It's pre-trib. Oh, it's post-trib. No my a Jewish guy, by the way. Oh.

Interesting interesting more Rosenthal. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, and actually it was my dad who got me into the pre-rath view so Pre-rath is you're gonna face tribulation Christians already by the way Christians already faced tribulation.

So you're gonna face tribulation but you won't face God's wrath, so it kind of just.

Christians in America call tribulation. Is not really tribute. That person won't friend me on Facebook. That person won't talk to me. I'm I'm being persecuted. What you need to do like.

Won't you be a Christian in in in a village in Nigeria where the Muslims are going house-to-house and murdering at murder. Yeah. That's what that's what real persecution is. That's tribulation. Yeah.

Yeah, so so I just wanted to clear that up so so. Just for those who are listening Dispensationalism is a hermeneutic. It is not an End-times view correct. It's a hermeneutic that will lead to specific views about the end times, for example, the restoration of the of Israel as a nation.

It will lead to that. It will lead to in a lot of cases a belief in a pre-trib Rapture, right? That's that's a fair comment to make and there are some other things that that will get wrapped into that and.

So.

With that I want to actually take note of an interesting interview that it that took place between Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz he has obviously. He grew up in a church that appears to have been a church that teaches from a dispensational mindset and.

He.

Went ahead and and he's like I'm taking on the view that Israel is God's chosen people. The Jews are God's chosen people and The Bible says whoever blesses Israel out. I will bless this is God speaking.

Whoever curses them. I will curse he takes that view. Tucker Carlson has a different view and There's this this very interesting Conversation that takes place Between the two of them. So Andrew and I we're gonna go through we're gonna kind of Talk through this so we you know, there will be times where we'll pause the video.

But I want to give kind of a cultural Commentary on what you're seeing in this conversation because it's quite interesting. I think what you're seeing between Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson in this clip that we're gonna watch is Literally what's playing out in the church right now between the Covenant side and the dispensational side?

So I'm gonna go in Tucker. I believe is Postmillennial, I want to believe both of them are brothers in Christ. I don't know either personally and I think that when I look at it You know just listening to the way You know Ted Cruz talks.

He'll talk about religion, but I just Doesn't neither one of them talk like they really are a believer like right. It's it's kind of it's me. It just seems like they go to church. It's cultural it impacts the way they view things.

It's different with like a Charlie Kirk who will go on a campus and preach the gospel, right? I don't hear either these guys preaching the gospel. They preach more Christianity in a cultural way in my opinion, but I don't know either of them personally.

I actually agree with you very strongly. I I have no good reason based on What I have seen from both of them to believe that they are.

Regenerate Christians, I have no good reason to believe that and and I don't have a reason to deny it either. Yeah.

So so. It's more like okay. These are two guys who are talking about an issue that has been very prevalent in the church today and taking on some some very.

It.

If I had a bingo card, I would have never had Tucker Carlson talking about Dispensationalism on on a bingo card for 2025. But anyway, I'm gonna pull that video up we can get right into it. Oh There we go.

We'll get right into it and I'll just tell you when to pause because I think it's coming from your end. You'll go ahead and press play.

Let's get into Iran momentarily, but but. You suggested it was a strange thing that I said a minute ago that when I came into the Senate I resolved that I was gonna be the leading defender of Israel and what you didn't ask is why.

So let me tell you. No, you said I was obsessed with Israel and you had just told me that like you're driving. Motives to get to the Senate was to defend Israel. Words matter. Uh-huh.

And you know, can you press pause real quick. That's interesting that he said words matter because you were just talking about that. Yeah words matter. But in just before we go any further I am frustrated.

By Tucker Carlson in this particular clip. He's just very bellicose. The laughing Ted Cruz off and by the way, Ted Cruz wasn't all that impressive either. But I'm just saying it. I may have somewhat of a negative bent toward Ted Cruz or not Ted Cruz.

But a Tucker Carlson as we as we go just because I don't know something has changed in him. I Find that you know Whenever he is being pushed back on he just he just laughs. In this bellicose way as if somehow that makes his position stronger.

I don't know. But it's just it's actually it's kind of annoying. So I'm sorry if you share that same perspective, but This is an interesting video to get into nonetheless. You want to go ahead and press for the record.

I have not watched this. Okay, I've seen I've heard some clips on different talk shows. I've Listened to Ted Cruz's podcast. So I heard his his view of how this went. I actually have yet to watch This this I mean you said you wanted it.

We downloaded it so we could play it and the first I'm actually watching it. So She get live reaction. What you said, I I do want to say that there is the possibility look Tucker Carlson is in media okay, and so.

Some of the clips I heard. I wonder if he was saying the things he said for the sake of cessationism to Get the media attention me there from what I understand from Ted Cruz. There was a period where he's like we shouldn't Bob my rack shouldn't Bob my action Obama and then you know Ted Ted Cruz ends up saying well, you know.

They they were threatening our president and he's like well then we should bomb them. It was like if I haven't watched it, but if he did that much of a flip that becomes very interesting. Yeah agreed.

So here we go. We'll play.

Leading defender of Israel. And you said you're driving mode of the reason you're in the Senate. You want to know we're leading defender of Israel. I would think if I ran for Senate I'd be like there are people dying of drug abuse on the street.

My driving motive is to fight for Texas and America to fight for jobs and to fight for the Constitution. And and you played a very very careful word game of a lie the one who said it. Okay, not me. So you still haven't asked why but I'm gonna tell you why.

Okay, and the reason is twofold. Number one is a Christian. Growing up in Sunday school. I was taught from the Bible. Those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed. And from my perspective I want to be on the blessing side of thing of the those who bless the government of Israel.

Those who bless Israel is what is it doesn't say the government of it says the nation of Israel.

This is a good one deposit Bible as a Christian so that is a very important point to bring up here because What that that question that Tucker asks if you bless the government of Israel the question comes if I? support Israel am I supporting the government of Israel or should there even be distinction.

There's kind of a theological wordplay that takes place here. And Andrew I was just wondering is there anything that you would like to add to that because I'm sure that you've run into this Particular thing.

Oh if oh, so if I don't bless the government of Israel And I'm not a Christian or in really another question is is Ted Cruz even using that verse correctly, I think he's using a verse from some verses from Genesis and.

Yeah, I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on that. Yeah, I think that. And I've heard this clip a couple times. This is the big one that people were playing and I think where it gets interesting is.

And I find it interesting that neither of them knew what the passage was. Now I do I will admit. From what I heard in the clips Tucker Carlson is gonna give Ted Cruz a hard time for not knowing where the passage is.

But he didn't know where was either. Right, so don't give someone a hard time or like I and that's where I go. I think look both of them are good at debating and there's some debate tactics going on. Okay, Ted Cruz saying well as a Christian.

He knows Tucker claims to be a Christian. So he's it's it that's a the whether he's doing it as a debate tactic I don't know, but it's like hey, you should be agreeing with me on this the the issue is is how in the Old Testament is that well it's in the context of all these countries tribes nations around Israel and the idea that You know God was going to very clearly as demonstrated in Beck book of Exodus Numbers that those who were gonna come up against Israel now they didn't do too well because God was gonna fight for Israel as a nation and We see that historically a great example that is numbers 22 to 25 and That's what the the account of Balaam now most people know Balaam because of talking donkey, okay but Balaam Was a Gentile who was a prophet for God?