149: Weird Worship

To the Ruled Church Podcast.

Christ Is King and the Church Is Not a Democracy

This is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased. He is honored, and I get the glory. And by the way, it's even better, because you see that building in Perryville, Arkansas? You see that one in Pechote, Mexico?

Do you see that one in Tuxla, Guterres, down there in Chiapas? That building has my son's name on it.

The church is not a democracy, it's a monarchy. Christ is king.

You can't be Christian without a local church.

You can't do anything better than to bend your knee and bow your heart, turn from your sin and repentance, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and join up with a good Bible-believing church, and spend your life serving Jesus in a local, visible congregation.

Reading a Facebook Post About Weird Worship

Well, it's Thanksgiving break, and it's late at night, and I'm sitting here with the two crazy daughters, Ella and Piper. Say hello, crazy daughters.

Hi.

Welcome to the Rural Church Podcast. I am your host, Alan Nelson. I'm one of the pastors at Providence Baptist Church.

In Perryville, Arkansas.

With me is Ella Grace. Say hello, Ella.

Hello.

If you don't speak into the computer and loud,.

You're not good. Hello.

Okay, that's a little bit. And also, Piper Nicole.

Hi.

And we are doing a live reading of a Facebook post I made, and some reaction I got to it.

Hey, where did it go?

So I posted this. I'm gonna read what I posted, and then it was like, you ever post something and just, I don't even know this person that commented. We're not even gonna say his name. We post something, you're like, what in the world?

So I'm just gonna read it. I'm gonna read my post, explain what I meant, then I'll read the comments. If you're not a believer and visit Providence Baptist Church, I hope that when you see our worship, you don't think I like this, but rather, this is weird.

I hope that what we do is so otherworldliness that it makes you uncomfortable. And ultimately, I hope that uncomfortability God will use to bring you into the kingdom. Okay, girls, we hadn't talked about this before.

What do you think dad is trying to communicate in that post?

That we're not like other churches, like worldly. We're not like the world, yeah.

Okay, yeah, well, not so much. I wasn't really thinking, I mean, yes, there are some, yes, okay, so we'll talk about that first. There are some churches that in their worship practices, they do try to bring in worldly entertainment.

They try to draw people in by worldliness, okay? So that's true. Why do you think that someone who's not a believer, do you think someone who's not a believer might be uncomfortable at our church? In the, as far as like, not like they don't feel welcomed, but like, would they think parts of our worship might be kind of weird?

Yeah.

How come? Like, what do you think? What do you think they might think is weird?

Like our catechism stuff, like repeating it.

Okay, we do catechism, yeah, we teach from the catechism. We read the confession, yeah, what else?

Our benediction, I really like our benediction.

You actually preach the real gospel.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, yeah, well, there's lots of things. So it's kind of a long service. I mean, we start at, well, our start time's 1030. It might be like 1032. And so usually our whole service is about an hour and a half, which, I mean, that's not super long, but for some people are kind of conditioned to that one hour.

And the most of the service actually is the preaching. Preaching will typically be 50 minutes is maybe a shorter sermon, sometimes an hour. But the whole point of the post is that if you're an unbeliever, we want you to feel welcomed, right?

But we don't want you to enjoy the worship as an unbeliever because, again, not that you don't feel welcomed, not that you don't feel like maybe there's something interesting going on, whatever, but I hope that you feel a little uncomfortable because we talk a lot about God, don't we?

Mm-hmm, yeah, a lot.

We share the gospel a lot, not just in the sermon. Again, we read from the confession and catechism. We pray several times in the service. So all these things should make someone feel uncomfortable, but the whole point is to see like, hey, I've stepped into another world.

Now, is the church the building?

No, it's the people.

Yeah, it's the people. We gather in a building, but we are the church gathered. It's not the building that's the church, it's the people in the building. And the people in the building, and being in the building, we worship in spirit and truth and according to what the scripture tells us to.

So we're not really worried. We're not really worried about what the world thinks about our worship because who are we trying to please?

God.

Yeah, and so how do we worship? According to what?

The Bible.

According to what the Bible says. All right, so I'll read again. If you're not a believer and visit Providence Baptist Church, I hope that when you see our worship, you don't think I like this, but rather this is weird.

I hope that what we do is so otherworldliness that it makes you uncomfortable. And ultimately, I hope that uncomfortability God will use to bring you into the kingdom. All right? Do y 'all agree or disagree?

Of course, it's your dad, so.

Totally agree.

Oh, totally agree. Okay, so we won't say his name, but someone who's not even a friend, so this is a public post, but oh, hey, someone shared it.

Lookie there.

So we, someone who's not even a friend commented, and I'm just gonna read it. And like, it's super like, they got like super mad. I don't understand, so here's what they said. Sure would be amazing if one thing you said was actually found in the Bible.

First of all, one thing I said? Well, I mean, what about just one thing, like worship? Is that in the Bible? Or kingdom? Is that in the Bible? Okay, anyway, sure would be amazing if one thing you said was actually found in the Bible, that you're supposed to act like an insane idiot in worship so that that can bring people to God.

Now, what? Insane idiot? Did y 'all get that?

No.

Is that what we act like in the church?

Insane? Okay, I'm going on. So that was my comment. Now, quote again. Sadly, here's what he says. Sadly, the wicked filth of modern Christianity and its evil bragging about its worship and its evil worship and all the filth that happens in modern Christianity today is such a wickedness.

Okay, well, first of all, now I'm obviously, because I've already read this guy, I know where he's going to, but there is a, I like, I agree with some of those words, actually. There is a lot in modern Christianity at times that I can't tell, are they, am I, is what I'm seeing supposed to be a concert or is it a worship service to the living God?

Right?

You girls, at different times when we've been away, maybe you've been with family members or maybe you've been at something, you know, an event with friends or something and we've talked, had to talk about it.

We have to sit down and talk. We've even been to a couple of things together. We have to sit down and talk and we're like, hey, what they were doing was wrong. It wasn't reverent. It was worldly. It was ungodly.

So it's not that I, you know, I would maybe say some of the same things, although he's very, very angry, it seems. I'll go on and continue reading the quote. He says, such an evil that leads people away from temples, which is good because God does not dwell in temples made with man's hands.

Okay, again, I'll pause. Right? Is anybody saying, have you ever heard dad say that, well, I'm gonna ask you a question, just saying. Have you ever heard dad say that God dwells in the physical buildings?

No.

No.

Have you ever heard God's, have you ever heard dad say that Jesus is building the temple today? Answer that carefully. Think about it. Have you ever heard dad say that Jesus is building the temple? I'm not gonna prompt you.

You're gonna have to just answer honestly.

I think so.

Yes.

Okay, what is the temple?

Church.

Yes, I did not even prompt him. I didn't even look at him. Didn't even give him a thumbs up, thumbs down, anything like that. That's right. Jesus is, we're not waiting on a third temple. Jesus is building the temple, the new temple, the church.

The church is the temple. It's not made with hands. It's made through the preaching of the gospel and the Holy Spirit builds the church. Not by might, not by power. The Lord says in Zechariah 4, 6, but by my spirit, says the Lord of hosts.

And he builds the temple through the heralding of the gospel. This man goes on to say, I know you can't comprehend this because you're bragging about how your worship is supposed to be otherworldly and crazy.

And all of that is against the Bible. Well, first of all, I wasn't bragging. I was not bragging. I mean, like, it's really hard. Okay, sometimes we kind of have a reputation sometimes that people think we're weird.

You know what, for me, that's kind of hard sometimes. Like, well, I don't know, girls, do you, do y 'all like, I mean, y 'all have had experiences before where kids have said that your dad's weird or that your church is weird.

Do y 'all like that?

No.

Is it easy?

No.

No?

So you think, like, dad's on social media bragging, oh, church is, you know, I'm bragging about how our worship, no, I'm not bragging. I'm just saying, look, this is what the Bible says and this is how we ought to worship.

Okay, he goes on to say, which I do not know where this is coming from or what, like, I'd almost think like he misread me completely, but then he calls me a Baptist. So he says this, we're not King David who dance, I'm reading just verbatim, who dance like an insane person, dot, dot, dot.

We are in the New Testament. We're not Old Testament Jews who spin around and scream and shout in the whirling dervish. Number one, I don't even understand what he's, number two, like, what? Well, how would you get that from my post?

You don't even mention it, do you?

I don't mention, by the way, I'm Baptist, right? Like, not that, you know, I don't ever dance, but I don't dance in church, that's for sure. Well, I don't know what he's talking about. He says, you can't find one thing you're saying in the New Testament because it doesn't exist and it goes against what Jesus taught.

Now, that's a little hyperbolic because worship, worship, how about John four? God seeks those who worship him in spirit and in truth. We're to worship, together churches to worship. So, I mean, anyway, I don't know where he's trying to come with that, but he says, continue on, but praise God you're a Baptist and praise God everybody should be like you.

And then, what is that emoji there? Can't tell what it is.

He's slapping his face.

Oh, it's the, what would you call that one? Yeah, where are you?

Slappy face.

Yeah, slap your face. Slappy face, okay. He says, continue, anyone reading this, it's time to come out from those wicked temple systems of Baptist and get into faith with Christ and out of man's traditional religion of evil.

So, I'm like, what in the world? It's like, that kind of came out of nowhere. I'm sure he's had some sort of experience, but anyway. So, I replied to him, this was all in the morning, I replied to him, I said, more coffee friend than post or maybe not.

And I just wrote Proverbs 17, 28, which I didn't write, I just put the reference, not the words. So, Proverbs 17, 28 says, even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise. When he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

Was that, was that too hard?

No.

I was like, why are you coming out of nowhere and commenting on my post? Like, I don't even know you. Like, we're not even friends. So, he replies to that. And then, I stopped replying. So, this is his last part.

He said, I knew all you could do was mock and hate, which I was not mocking, I was not hating. I'm just like, look, dude, be quiet. You are all like, oh, sorry. Yeah, you are like all others trapped in the lying system.

I can play the Bible against you too, dot, dot, dot, and pick hateful scriptures against your kind. Okay, now, all caps. But sure would be nice, end all caps. If your wicked mouth could shut, dot, dot, dot, and you could see that, all caps, everything, your hateful, arrogant, denominational mind, just, all caps, bragged about, end all caps, in this post, is 100 not in the Bible and actually against the Bible.

Okay, we've already gone through all that. Like, what? I mean, by the way, my post was like two lines, right? I gotta go back and see. How many sentences? If you're not a believer and visit Providence Baptist Church, I hope that when you see our worship, you don't think, I like this, but rather, this is weird, one sentence.

Second, I hope that what we do is so otherworldliness that it makes you uncomfortable, second sentence. And ultimately, I hope that uncomfortability, God will use to bring in, so three sentences, very short post, just some thoughts I was having on a Monday of Thanksgiving week that I'm off.

A 100 not in the Bible, that's what he says. That is the issue, and you cannot and will not address it. Well, I mean, I can address it. I'm not gonna address it with the random man on Facebook who is attacking the post, but I will address the whole point that I've already addressed at the beginning of the episode.

The whole point is the idea that we should have a worship service tailored to what the Scripture teaches. We should worship like the Bible teaches us to worship. And honestly, I don't think that we should embrace weirdness, like I know people, girls, do y 'all know anybody?

Don't say any names if somebody comes to mind, but you know anybody that it almost is like they try to be weird? You ever seen people like maybe in your co-op or maybe in your softball or something like that, and it's like, are you trying to be weird?

Okay, so sometimes people try to be weird, I get it. And we shouldn't try to be weird, but the reality is if we're going to worship according to the Bible, when a godless culture is confronted with that, they're going to find it weird, right?

Okay, so I can address it anyway. He says, but you can, all caps, use the mocking, hateful words from the Bible against me and call me a fool and mock me because that's what the people do, dot, dot, dot, all caps, like yourself, dot, dot, dot, and all caps, who have no rebuttal for the truth when presented to them.

Okay, first of all, I have rebuttal, I don't even understand what the guy's trying to say. I guess he doesn't like people meeting in buildings. And all your kind can do is mock the messenger because you can't answer the message as I called you out on your false doctrine and bragged about your church, which it's not, which I wasn't bragging.

In the New Testament, the church did meet in buildings. Yes, they met in homes, but they also met in other places too. In the very first church services, out in the temple courtyard, as it were. So it wasn't just houses, there's places, but the whole idea is, it's not about the building, it's about the meeting, it's about the gathering.

When the church gathers, and what are we to do when we're gathered? We're to order ourselves according to the scriptures, like Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14, everything should be done decently and in order.

God is worthy of orderly worship according to the scriptures. Okay, girls, I've been talking. Now it's time for your comments. What do you think? What do you think about worship? What do you think about your crazy dad?

What do you think about Providence Baptist Church? Anything you want to add to the conversation so far?

I think that it was just, he wasn't even getting to what you were saying. Like, he was saying other things, like David was dancing, we shouldn't be like him. Like, I was like, what?

I think he was just a little quanky.

Yeah, I think sometimes, so you girls find this out too, but I think sometimes in life, like people get mad about something. And by the way, I don't even know, like how did, why did Facebook algorithm show him my post?

But I think sometimes people get mad about an issue. And this is danger of social media. And I'll make something, I'm gonna make up like a crazy illustration. But someone got hurt by a meteorologist, you know, broke their heart or something.

And so they see someone else on social media say, the weather sure is nice today. Yeah, right.

And they're like, ah, what? How dare you comment on the weather?

Who do you think you are?

You don't know the weather.

You know, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, like, where did that come up? I feel like, and particularly, I've been guilty. We need to guard ourselves from it. But particularly, it's not the way that Christians ought to interact, or even if this guy is a Christian.

I don't, I mean, I don't know. It seems like there is a movement, and it's been like this for a while, but there's a movement, certainly, against any kind of institutional Christianity. So any kind of formal membership, elders, I mean, which by the way, all in the New Testament, Philippians 1 .1, to the saints at Philippi with the overseers and the deacons.

So formal, institutional, local church, membership, worship, like this is all, this is just New Testament Christianity. And people like, a lot of times, to find a little, you know, a little niche or the little subgroup, and then, you know, talk about how everybody else is wrong.

It kind of actually reminds me, have you girls ever ran into somebody that was like, you can't have Christmas, it's pagan.

Yes.

I think, yeah, I would tell you it's born in the grasswoods.

Oh, yeah, well, that's different. Yeah, Jehovah's Witnesses, they don't do Christmas for a different reason. But there are people who claim to be Christians, even Reformed Christians, who's like, oh, you can't do Christmas, it's pagan, and which is, first of all, historical falsehood.

Secondly, it is, I think that you don't have to, I don't know how we got on this. Anyway, you don't have to celebrate Christmas. This is gonna come out after Christmas. You don't have to celebrate Christmas.

But I think we have, we certainly have freedom to do so. Anyway, we're just talking about like, sometimes like the little niche groups that just wanna come out of nowhere. So, okay, girls, y 'all said you wanna come on the podcast.

So now we're just, we're killing time. What else you got?

I love Archers. I don't think, that's random.

No, no, I asked that earlier, like, what do you think? Okay, so what do you like about the worship at our church?

I love how loud we sing, we sing really loud.

Yeah, we do sing. I think part of that is the acoustics in the building that helps big time. But every week, if you have an Apple Watch at our church, every week it goes off and it says, your environment's too loud.

And if you sing, or it doesn't say if you sing, it says if you stay in this environment for 30 minutes, it could damage your ears permanently. So, so I do, I like how loud we sing, that's good. Okay, what else?

I like all the stuff before the sermon, like our benediction, our catechism.

The benedictions after the sermon.

Oh, yeah.

So what are you trying to say?

I just like the whole entire thing.

Yeah, okay.

I just like it all.

So walk me through our worship service. What happens first?

Well, we have Sunday school first.

Well, we have Sunday school, but what happens at our worship? Walk me through the order.

Okay, so we.

Speak loud.

Okay.

It's kind of blinking in my mind.

I can help.

Okay, yeah, you help.

So we sing first.

Oh, huh, wrong.

No.

Yeah.

Oh, we read from the scripture first.

Yeah, there you go. So the first thing we do is called what?

Scripture reading.

Call to worship. To worship, yeah. Very good, we have the call to worship.

And then we sing two songs.

Wrong.

No, we have our like reading.

So we read the scripture and then what happens?

And then we have like our.

Nope, we read the scripture and then what happens?

We pray.

We pray, okay, very good. So we read the scripture and we pray. Then what happens?

And we sing two songs.

Nope.

No.

Have you ever been to our church before?

No, we do our like what's happening today, like.

No, no.

No, we don't do that.

No, remember. So apparently our girls have never been to church. So we do a, we don't, this isn't part of our worship, but we do welcome and we give announcements, all that. But we have a formal call to worship.

So if we get all that out of the way, then we say, okay, now we're gonna worship. So we have the call to worship, then we pray. So call to worship, pray. What comes next?

Sing two songs.

No.

We recite our memory.

Recite our memory.

Passage together.

So we stand together and we recite scripture. So the very first part of our service is about listening from God, from his word. And then we pray and then we listen to God again as we recite the scriptures to one another.

And then what do we do?

We sing two songs.

And then we sing two songs. We're finally there, okay? Then what's next?

We do something in between the third one.

Yeah. Starts with a C.

Catechism.

Yeah, we do our confession catechism. So we read, we consider this part of the teaching in the worship service. So we read from the 1689 and then we read from our catechism together. All right? And then we do.

What happens after that? Starts with a P.

Oh, what? Preach.

No.

No.

Ella.

Ends with a ray.

Pray.

Pray, yeah.

Oh yeah, we pray.

Okay, and then what's next?

We sing a third song.

We sing a third song.

Oh yeah.

And what happens after that song?

We have an offering and sing a song.

We have a prayer.

Prayer.

And then we have our offering.

And then we sing a song.

And during the offering, we sing a song. So we've done different things. What we're doing right now is singing through the songs. So we started back over. We were doing like a song of the month. We've been doing this for about two years, maybe.

Yeah, I think it was two years.

Two years, maybe two and a half years. But anyway, we're singing a song. But now we started over and we're just singing one new psalm each week. So this coming week, which this will be in the past by the time you listen to this, it's Psalm 13.

All right, and then what happens?

And preach.

Yeah, Dad gives his introduction, reads the text, and we pray. We pray again. And then Dad preaches the sermon. At the end of the sermon, we?

Pray.

Pray.

After the sermon, we?

We sing.

Shh. We?

Sing another song.

Yeah, we sing another song.

After that song, we do what?

Pray.

No.

No, Ella.

We read our, no, we read.

Then the benediction.

The benediction.

So one of the pastors reads the benediction for the week, which is usually a benediction from the scriptures. And then we sing what?

Doxology.

Doxology, and then we what?

And then we pray.

All right, and that is.

Then we eat food.

Well, that's not part of the service, but yes. Then we eat food. We're good Baptists. There's no, I'll tell you this, there's no crazy dancing. And the songs that we sing are not worldly songs. We have just switched.

We were in the Baptist hymnal forever, the 91 or 92, whatever it is.

Now we're in the sing hymnal.

Now we've been using the sing hymnal. Someone donated that, so we enjoy that. But the whole point is like, when you, when the church begins its worship service, you should feel out of place if you don't love the Lord.

In fact, in fact, I've said this for a long time, but if you can come to our church week after week and you're lost and you're okay with it, then we're doing something wrong. The author of Hebrews says in Hebrews 10 or 12, 22, but you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem and to innumerable angels and festal gathering and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven and to God, the judge of all and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Does that sound like you're entering into something that is common? No, it's other worldly. We're coming together, we're gathering, we're not even by ourselves. So, you know, we gather with those we see, but there's even a part of the church that we can't see that's gathered with us, those in heaven and the angels.

And we're coming into a place that ought to make the unbeliever feel uncomfortable. In fact, that passage goes on to even address this. It says, therefore, let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship with reverence and awe for our God is a consuming fire.

You know what that means?

That we should reverence God in awe.

Yes, we should have a proper disposition in worship. And any kind of worship that a person tries to give to God without bowing the knee to Christ, try to mouth through the songs. Hey, you were converted recently.

You were converted this year, Piper. So there are many times that you sang the songs, but you weren't giving God true worship. Well, that's a dangerous thing according to this text. God is a consuming fire.

You know, sometimes people talk about set my soul on fire or whatever. Well, you don't want that. This is not talking about being on fire for the Lord, as it were. This is talking about God will consume you like he did Nadab and Abihu for offering strange fire, for offering strange worship.

So if you come into our church and you are able to enjoy yourself while hating God and rejecting Christ, that's a problem. Does it make sense to you girls?

Yes.

Well, at least y 'all understood what dad was saying, maybe.

Right.

Maybe not. Has dad ever said anything y 'all think is weird or confusing?

Not about church.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Just in general.

He said some weird stuff.

Just like general dad stuff.

Yeah.

Like what?

I don't know.

I'm gonna tickle your toes.

Like what?

I'm gonna tickle your toes.

I'm gonna tickle your toes. Oh, that's what dads do. By the way, it's part of the dad's calling to be weird to his children, right? Just as a weird, weird dad.

Remember that story you told us about sin split?

I remember that.

I remember that in the story, and I see.

Yeah, that's right.

Remember that in the story.

But we're not, but,.

But not weird in my theology, right?

Right.

Except if you're not a believer.

All right.

Well, it is midnight. It's after midnight on Thanksgiving break. Can y 'all believe that? You girls got anything else to say?

Bye bye.

Giggly girls. Well, thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you girls for joining. Maybe y 'all should start your own podcast.