Radio Lux Lucet 70

You're listening to Radio Looks Loose and I'm your host Steve Matthews. Thanks for joining me for episode 70. The title of today's episode is School Shootings and How to Solve Them, Crime Prevention or Crime Punishment.

Well thanks to everybody for joining the live stream today. I'm actually coming to you at a much earlier time than I usually do. It's a decent time. The sun's still up which is kind of an amazing thing.

Usually I'm doing these things at 10 or 11 o 'clock or 12 o 'clock at night or some crazy thing like that. But I've got a few things going on and I wanted to go ahead and get this done early today. Probably the single biggest thing that I've got going on today is my UC Bearcats.

My University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Yes I'm a graduate of University of Cincinnati. The football team is playing for the conference title today. UC is 12 -0 and they're ranked I think four nationally.

So here's my UC sweatshirt. Go UC! They're actually playing the University of Houston today and if they win that game there is a very high probability that they're going to have a chance to play for the national championship.

As I said this before on this podcast, I'm just constantly amazed that UC is actually having a chance. It has a legitimate shot to play for a national title. I never would have thought that was possible and I've really enjoyed this year.

You know some people have said this is the biggest game in UC history and I think that's true and it's saying quite a lot too because they've been playing football since 1885. So you know this goes back a long way.

But yes this is a big deal and I wish them all the best of success. Houston's not a pushover by any means. I believe they're 11 -1 and they're ranked 16 nationally. You don't get to be ranked 16 nationally by being a slouch.

So I mean it's not a gimme that UC is going to win this game but I'm going to hope for the best outcome here and hopefully we'll have a shot here to play for a national title and I have some good news.

But anyway that's why I'm wearing my UC sweatshirt today. Got to support my Bearcats. Anyway there's one other thing I wanted to mention to you. I mentioned that my neighbors have this giant Frosty the Snowman inflatable.

This is the biggest thing I've ever seen and I saw them they had it up for a test run this summer and I told you I'd get you a picture of it when it was put up. Well they put it up this past week and here's a picture of this thing.

This little tree here down in front is about six feet high. Now the inflatable it's up there on a bit of a hill so it's not even but I mean you can see the house behind there and in the the top of his his top hat and it you know he's it's up to the second story of this building.

I mean it's really an amazing thing to see. The biggest inflatable I've ever seen. I showed a picture of this to one of my friends who's about my age and he said oh that's the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

Yeah from Ghostbusters you remember that. It's kind of funny that's what I that's kind of what I thought too. But whether it's Frosty the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man it's quite impressive the size of this and I found out something too about our neighbors is that last year they came in second in a contest I guess held by a local TV station here in Cincinnati and they got second prize for best light display in the city.

So that's kind of a big deal for them and so who knows they've kind of raised their game this year. Maybe they're going for that number one spot. I guess we'll we'll see if they get that or not. Oh goodness.

Crime Punishment Versus Crime Prevention

Anyway so enough of that. Now one thing I wanted to talk about this is kind of the main main point that I wanted to talk about here today and that is you know school shootings and how to solve them because you know there was another terrible school shooting in Michigan this week and there's of course the usual kinds of rhetoric that you hear out in the in the press and and this is a very kind of thing that the Christians need to be talking about and so I thought I'd bring a little bit of you know try to try my best here to to bring some bring the scriptures to bear on this particular subject.

Now what I'm going to do what I'm going to do is I want to go back and cite something that John Robbins said. Now John Robbins said this somewhere in one of his lectures and I don't have the the reference immediately handy so I don't know offhand what it is but I know that he talked about there being two basic approaches to criminal justice.

There's crime prevention and there's crime punishment. Now crime prevention is is the that's the method of tyrants. Crime prevention is the is the biblical approach and with crime prevention what governments attempt to do is they want to regulate everybody in advance create this whole big body of regulations with the idea that there prevents some kind of of future wrongdoing.

So essentially what they do is they punish everyone in order to prevent some you know punish innocent people in order to prevent some theoretical future wrongdoing. Now you know that's that's condemning the you know that's condemning the innocent that that is unjust.

Excuse me and but that is that is the position of crime prevention. You know the other way that you can approach crime is crime punishment and that is where you after someone has been given due process gone through a trial this type of thing and in due process is a Christian concept as well that that person and that person alone is punished.

You don't punish the entirety of society for some individual's crime you punish the individual that that did the evil deed. Now looking through some of this there was a story and this is from a paper I'm going to go ahead and bring this up here in just a moment and get this so we can can view it together.

Looks like I've actually already got it up here so we'll do that and we'll do that and just a moment sorry I should have had this ready but I didn't. Okay here we go all right so sharing this this story here this is a story from the Hill and you know that's your your standard mainstream American press here and it's got a headline 15 year old Michigan school shooting suspect to be charged as an adult and and you read through this and there's a statement by the prosecutor that I think is very telling.

I mean the intention is of course to to charge this this young man this his name is Ethan Crumley to charge him as an adult but she said let's see here the prosecutor said that there was no reason to be concerned about Crumley's mental stability at the time adding that officers response was executed perfectly but the four students deaths indicated a need for more gun control.

So it appears that the the prosecutor says okay what we need to do is we need more gun control in other words what we need is we need more crime prevention or to put it another way we need to deprive innocent Americans of their God-given and constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms because of a terrible deed that was done by this one individual or at least alleged to have been done by this one individual.

Let's let's stay in the the alleged category here because he has not been tried yet. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that that this young man does Ethan Crumley did in fact commit the crime but I'm not going to pronounce on that right now I'm not going to conclude whether he's guilty or not we'll let him have his his day in court as they say and and of course we know as I mentioned earlier the idea of due process that is also a Christian concept.

So the prosecutor believes that that this particular crime by by Ethan Crumley or alleged crime by Ethan Crumley deserve requires that we have more gun control. Now she's not the only one of course there's a tweet here by David Hogg.

David Hogg is is a he was a became shot to national prominence back in was that 2017 or 2018 but he was at Parkland High School well in Parkland Florida I guess it was it wasn't called Parkland High School I don't think but anyway he was it was that Florida school shooting and he became a very prominent activist for more gun control and of course he's constantly out there now advocating for all kinds of progressive policies and he he's a big advocate of of gun control probably one of the better known public figures arguing for gun control and here's a tweet from him out there this one actually doesn't have any swear words in it which is it's kind of rare for David Hogg because most of his his tweets do he says stop waiting for the next Parkland you can act now and prevent it.

So there's right there you know the idea of crime prevention and he continues appoint a national director of gun violence prevention. Okay so there's more crime prevention and use the power of the bully pulpit to create a filibuster proof majority in the senate.

You're great at working across aisles and he's apparently addressing this to Joe Biden. He says prove it. POTUS. Of course POTUS that's the abbreviation of president of the United States. Sometimes people call the president POTUS so yeah he's tweeting at Joe Biden and he twice mentions prevention.

So I mean he's very much an advocate of the crime prevention school of thought. So let's talk a little bit about that. So you know we we had this idea that that you know according to David Hogg you know the government needs to act in order to prevent crime and of course that's supposed to make I guess apparently he doesn't go into detail you know but but very obviously I mean he wants to make it harder and harder to to get guns and and probably I mean if if truth be told probably he and the other gun grabbers out there would like to take them all together and completely void the uh the second amendment rights of the American people.

They want to do that they want to take your guns. I mean there's no question about that um I think uh Beto O 'Rourke you know made some comment about that wanting to take your your AR -15s um during the uh during the last presidential campaign so yeah I mean these people want to take your take your guns.

The Regulatory State and COVID Mandates

Now let's talk a little bit more about about the regulatory state and I think we can see how the problem of crime prevention comes about by looking about looking at the way it's applied in another area and I wanted to talk here about the regulatory state in COVID as of course when we think about COVID you know there's all these countries out there that have been for almost the last two years now have been over backwards they've violated the civil rights of their citizens they have imposed uh really onerous mask requirements lockdowns um in uh some certain places I think it's it's in Australia they have basically uh concentration camps uh in some cases I think it's in northern territories I think it's one state that has that uh so yeah there's uh there is uh some very onerous uh mandates out there Austria um just recently they mandated that everybody all adults in the country are going to have to be vaccinated by some date early in the first it's in the first quarter of 2022 so just a few months away and there's big demonstrations over there so I mean you you don't even have if you're in Austria and at least currently you don't even have control over what gets stuck in your body and I mean I can hardly think of a more uh substantial violation of one's personal rights and the mandate that somebody has to have a vaccine or I guess you know you're going to be put in jail and you're going to be fined and you know of course there are a lot of people in the United States you know Anthony Fauci and you know Mayor of New York, Mayor of LA, certain governors probably our president there's lots of people in in very powerful places that would like to see those kinds of policies here in the United States.

Praise the Lord they have not yet been able to do that but I think that's certainly what uh what they're aiming for. Now none of this is warranted by scripture. The Bible does speak about quarantines in in the scriptures you know there are some very clear passages that talk about quarantining people with leprosy you can find those in Leviticus I believe it's Leviticus 13 but there are significant differences between the Bible's leprosy quarantine provisions and what's being done by governments today.

In the first place there were no leprosy police in ancient Israel going around forcing forcibly testing people and checking them to see if they had had accurately reported their leprosy. If you read through the passage in in Leviticus you see that it was up to the individual person to turn himself in so you didn't have a leprosy police they didn't have a leprosy inspection.

I mean the expectation was is that if you saw something on yourself you would go to the priest and you would have the priest examine you. Now only after a thorough examination by the police by the priest was anyone quarantined and people who showed no sign of quarantine were were not quarantined for leprosy to quote slow the spread.

You know there was that saying this was put out by Donald Trump in the it's like the first quarter I guess of of 2020 or first or second quarter but the the slogan was 15 days to slow the spread you know so we were all going to social distance and wear masks and you know work from home and do all this stuff for 15 days we're going to slow the spread then everything can go back to normal and boom you know we'd be back to doing the normal things.

Well here we are two years later you know and 15 days to slow the spread has turned into you know authorities in the United States and in many other countries trying to jab everything that moves and if you don't agree to get the jab you know they they want to toss you in a in a concentration camp or toss you in jail or fine you out of house and home and it's it's a truly horrible situation that that has occurred.

But you can see with with this whole treatment of COVID how it's very similar to the idea of of crime prevention you know what we're going to do is we're going to impose all these really draconian things such as lockdowns and mask requirements and vax requirements and masks and social distancing and all of this this terrible stuff and this is going to prevent the spread of COVID.

Well it hasn't prevented the spread of COVID and it's not surprising that none of it's worked because they're not approaching things from a biblical standpoint. Now as I said there is a legitimate biblical case to make for quarantining people who are sick with infectious diseases and certainly dangerous ones.

You know leprosy was was one of those. In fact I think it was the only one if I recall correctly that in the old testament where where that occurred but there was no general provision in the law of Moses to just lock down Israel to prevent the spread of of of leprosy or of any other disease for that matter that that didn't exist.

It was the individual person who had the leprosy who was quarantined. You know it wasn't. There were no general lockdowns or mandates of one sort or another for the population as a whole who did not have leprosy.

You don't quarantine healthy people. There's another way of saying that. I've heard some people put it that way you don't quarantine healthy people. And yet this has all been about quarantining that is to say punishing healthy people.

It's the same principle applied to managing disease as it is you know with these people who want to grab everybody's guns you know they want to grab everybody's guns in order to prevent some future wrongdoing.

Whereas the proper biblical approach to criminal justice is if somebody does something horrible then that person bears the guilt that person is punished. You don't destroy people's right to defend themselves because of what somebody else did in that case you know you're you're punishing the innocent.

And you can see that in in both cases you know in both the the way government deals with COVID and the both in the way that you know the the gun grabbers want to deal with uh with with gun problems. You know whoever it is you know if somebody commits a school shooting or any other kind of shooting where you go in and murder somebody that person should be executed.

I mean that is the the the biblical stance. Now I'm pretty sure I I'm not I haven't read this for sure but I mean I would be pretty shocked if the uh the young man who stands accused you know if he is found guilty of the the school shooting I would be very surprised if he's executed he probably will not be um but if he is guilty or if anyone's guilty of doing a crime like that yes those people should be executed.

That's the proper way of dealing with that. Um you know that's it's spelled out very clearly in uh in the word of God now and in fact you know well here's something that's interesting here I was going to point this out and I had forgotten about this.

Regulatory Capture and the Vaccine State

Um yeah let's see here. Oh the issue of uh of vaccine regulation in the United States. So you know since we're talking some here about COVID uh in in America the the pharmaceutical industry is is very heavily regulated by the FDA and I just listened to an interview with uh Robert uh F. Kennedy Jr. and one of the points that he was making in this interview is an interview he did with Tucker Carlson is a big uh big pharma companies essentially run the Food and Drug Administration.

Now the Food and Drug Administration is the governmental body the federal governmental body that oversees the the regulation of the uh of the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture vaccines and it's up to the FDA to either approve or to deny approval for any type of a uh of a vaccine.

And one of the things one of the problems with the regulatory state that that uh Robert Kennedy Jr. brought up is something that's called regulatory capture and he and this is something is not true just in the vaccine industry.

It's also true in other industries as well. So for example what's going on here with in the FDA you've got a lot of cross-pollination in other words a lot the same people who sit on the FDA were either former board members of the companies they they supposedly regulate or some of the people that are on the boards are people who served in the FDA.

So you've got this this serious conflict of interest going on and you know many people have pointed this out about other regulatory bodies as well you know they talk about the revolving doors sometimes the way that's put well you know it is a problem but the reason it's a problem you know is you know again and I don't know what Robert Kennedy Jr's stance is on this but many people when they see things like that as they say what we need is a better regulatory state.

You know we need more honest regulators we need less conflict of interest and etc etc. Well what that is. That's actually a superficial way of approaching things that's a superficial way of dealing with the problem.

I mean what what happens. Yeah you're not going to ever clear that up. You know the problem the way that you deal with regulatory capture the way that you solve that problem is you get rid of the regulatory bodies and you allow people to through the court system to bring lawsuits against companies if they have been harmed through I guess you know through you know in other words you know if you've been harmed by a vaccine you should have the right to sue the vaccine companies now here's the thing in the United States and I don't know if this is true in other countries it may well be.

But in the United States back in 1986 they passed something called the Vaccine Act that prevented people from suing vaccine manufacturers and bringing class action lawsuits against them. So something else that Robert Kennedy talked about now what it did do is it did have a provision for people to set up what they call vaccine courts.

But from my understanding the vaccine courts are all run by the pharmaceutical companies. So yeah you can bring a complaint and maybe you can get a settlement although I understand that that's pretty rare but whatever settlement you may get it's going to be far less than what you would have gotten if you had been able to sue these people in in court directly.

So you had that that Vaccine Act in 1986 that really substantially insulated the pharmaceutical companies from from any consequences of their of bringing unsafe products to market. You know if people were harmed they didn't have any recourse.

And you've got something even more even worse going on right now with these COVID vaccines these COVID vaccines are being put out under what's called Emergency Use Authorization and they haven't been approved by the FDA and as a result as I understand it these these pharmaceutical manufacturers I'm talking here about Pfizer I'm talking about Moderna I'm talking about Johnson and Johnson in principle those are three big American manufacturers of the the COVID vaccine.

What since it's since these the their vaccines are are being allowed under the emerge under the Emergency Use Authorization there is no ability for the American people to sue these to sue these vaccine manufacturers.

So if you get or maimed by these these vaccines or if you are killed by these vaccines you have no recourse there's no way you or your family can bring a lawsuit against any of these companies and and on top of that then the the use of these vaccines is mandated you know and they're making an obscene profits.

This is not how capitalism is supposed to work. You know what this is this is a sort of crony capitalism that it's not capitalism at all. It's it's actually more properly uh called corporatism or if you want to be even more direct about it's actually called fascism that is vaccine fascism.

Fascism. The definition of fascism is the merger of state and corporate powers and that's what you see going on here with uh with these vaccines you know a lot of times people say well this or that is is fascist and you know they just they just apply that term fascist kind of loosely you know anything they don't like is fascist.

Well that that's not true. You know there's a lot of different uh terrible things out there fascism is the only one of them but that literally fits the definition of fascism. When you talk about uh government and you know the in the form of the fda and in an act of congress when you talk about these these uh government and these vaccine manufacturers getting together to essentially shield the vaccine manufacturers from nearly all um liability for for products for dangerous products that they put out you know that is fascism.

You know they get a pocket the profits and you have no recourse. You know when we talk about people being injured or maimed really by these vaccines some of these injuries are truly terrible. I mean this uh myocarditis or pericarditis um i believe and i'd have to go back and double check this but from what i've read you know these are permanent injuries uh to people's hearts.

And many times these are young people you know these are teenagers you know these are young men especially young men seem to be uh susceptible to this you know who are having their health permanently damaged and they have no recourse to go back and uh and sue these vaccine manufacturers for these these destructive vaccines.

So that's another thing another reason why you know we should not have the regulatory state you know big government is uh is incredibly beneficial for those who are for the the rich and powerful. Now the rule of law protects everyone it protects the rich and powerful but it also protects regular people.

You think for example in the in the bible in in the in biblical justice if if someone didn't take care of a problem that was was very obvious you know that person could be fined or possibly even executed.

You know there's an example and this is from exodus 21. Um and i'm just going to read the the quote here and it's talking about an ox and uh and it says here but uh but if the ox tended to thrust with its horn in times past and has been made known to his owner and he has not kept it contained so that it has killed a man or a woman the ox shall be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death.

So if you own an ox and somebody comes to you one of your neighbors and says hey you know this ox was was having a go at me it was trying to gore me the other day and maybe you get even multiple reports.

Another neighbor says yeah that's right that that ox really went after me and it tried to gore me i i escaped and you know i'm thankful for being able to escape but but i barely got away with my wife.

You know if you know if the if the owner has been made aware by his neighbors that this has been a pattern of behavior with this particular ox that that owner has an obligation to keep that ox contained it says you know you know if the ox has tended to thrust with the past and has been made known to its owner and the owner has not kept it contained so i mean you know it didn't say that you know if the the ox you know tried to go after somebody unsuccessfully that the owner had to get rid of the ox but he does say the you know the owner has to keep it contained and if the owner doesn't do that and that ox kills somebody that owner is to be put to death now that's some serious liability you know but right now we've got a situation here in the united states with these vaccine manufacturers making billions of dollars in profit and again i'm a capital i'm a capitalist you know i got a degree from from business school so i'm not here to run down the idea of profit.

Um you know i i love the idea of of uh of profit and of of free markets of capitalism you know these sorts of things uh this isn't an attack on capitalism uh in at all but you know if a business if a manufacturer vaccine manufacturer or any other kind of manufacturer puts out a product that is unsafe and harms people those manufacturers need to be held accountable for that.

And that's done through the court system it's done through lawsuits. That's the way you handle these types of things not by setting up a huge regulatory state that tries to to prevent wrongdoing to prevent injury uh going forward you know and again that's another example that that ties in with that whole idea of of crime crime punishment not crime prevention.

You know you don't punish all of these vaccine manufacturers by forcing them to jump through hoops if they haven't done anything that that deserves that. But if a vaccine manufacturer puts out a vaccine that harms or kills people and these covet vaccines from what i understand the the incidents the number of uh of injuries and deaths that have resulted from covet the covet vaccines exceed all of the the negative all of the injuries and deaths that were caused by all the vaccines put together in the history of the recording system in america it's called the vaccine adverse event reporting system VAERS VAERS and there have been more injuries and deaths recorded as a result of the covet vaccines than all of the other vaccines put together in the history of the VAERS system.

And i understand that the VAERS system goes back to 1980. So you know you're going back over 40 years at this point and so all the other vaccines that have ever been rolled out have not amounted to the same number of deaths and injuries as has occurred from this one single vaccine.

I mean that just screams that there's a major problem with this. So in closing here i wanted to just say you know the the regulatory state you know that we currently have in america and not just in america but you see this throughout the west is is unchristian and it's unconstitutional and it serves elite interests it serves the interest of those who you know have the money and have the power and it insulates them from having to uh to face their you know the punishment for their own misdeeds you know and this is why the regulatory state was banned by the law of moses in ancient ancient israel.

It was also prohibited in our constitution in the the law of moses there was there were no regulatory police. There are no regulatory cops out there telling people how they they had to run their farm or you know had to build their house or had to do all these other various things.

Now if somebody you know there are certain cases where somebody didn't take care of business that those people could be held liable and it's spelled out there very clearly in the law of moses. But there was no regulatory uh state.

Just like there was no regulatory state at the time of the founding of the united states of america you know there was a uh which country was you know the united states was founded largely on christian principles.

There were there was a an author by uh who wrote a book called the hebrew republic. His name was ec wines and i believe he was a congregationalist minister. This was in the 19th century and what he showed was that it wasn't to greece and rome that america owed its its founding principles.

It's actually to the old testament and the uh in israel as it was set up originally uh in canaan. I mean if you look at the law of moses i mean israel was not a a monarchy. It was not uh not a kingdom uh it was a republic.

You know they had a written constitution which was the law of moses and it had judges that executed um that made you know executed justice uh in in certain areas and also had uh local officials as well who had a responsibility for uh for punishing those who practiced evil and also praising those who did what was good.

But the rise of the regulatory state since the early 20th century is the collapse of the west. You know that that is the collapse of the west. You know it's it's something where we have rejected our heritage of freedom and we are uh forging our own chains once again to to be enslaved to this regulatory state.

Now there are of course there are many other examples of the collapse of the west. I mean one of them is the you know the the feminism homosexuality and transgenderism. Yeah there was a story that i happened to run across today in uh yeah this was in the daily mail and not not to pick on on sydney australia.

Well i guess i'm going to pick on them a little bit but of course we we have the same problem here in the united states as well. So i mean this is uh it's certainly not unique to sydney or unique to australia.

I'm just using this as an example uh but it says here clover moore is set for her third decade in charge of sydney and she shrugs off four women challengers for the lord mayor's role. There's been a massive swing against her in covet delayed election.

So here we see someone who is in fact it says here clover moore set for an historic fifth term after 17 years of sydney's lord mayor. So she's going for term number five and you know it points out here that her four challengers there are also all four women now you know john knox.

And this is back in the day. This is back in the 1500s john knox wrote a treatise. It was called the first blast of the trumpet against the monstrous regiment of women. And it's kind of a funny title in some ways because he's using the term regiment in a sense different from what we're used to.

You know the the term regiment you know when you usually hear it now we think of maybe a a military unit. But what he meant by regiment in the title of that that essay was government. You know he meant the first blast of the trumpet against the government of women.

And one of the things that he wrote in that uh i'm just going to quote this as a brief paragraph. One of the things he wrote in that essay he said to promote a woman to bear rule superiority dominion or empire above any realm nation or city is repugnant to nature contemplious to god a thing most contrary to his revealed will and approved ordinance.

And finally it is a subversion of good order and of all equity and justice. Well you know and john knox goes on he makes a devastating case for this directly from the scriptures. Now john knox was right.

You know he called the state of affair women rule over empires realms nations and cities. Sydney for example he called it the monstrous regiment of women. But yet there are very few christians in our own time who have even heard of knox's essay.

Or if they have heard of it um they don't believe it you know they just think oh you know that's just a lot of uh you know a lot of uh thunder and fulmination from you know way back in the day and it has no application to our enlightened modern age.

Well john knox was right he was arguing from the scriptures and he was right back in the 1500s and he is right today. That is a monstrous thing now you know i mentioned here of course this is not a problem that's in any way unique to to sydney.

Uh you know here in the united states we have lots of uh of women mayors i mean one of the the worst mayors in the country as laurie lightfoot up there in chicago she is destroying that city just destroying it.

Um you know there's the the governor up there in michigan megan whitmer she is destroying the state of of michigan you know with her tyranny her coveted tyranny. And i think there's a good chance that you're going to see sometime in the not too distant future both the republicans and the democrats run a a won't run women presidential candidates against one another.

I think it could happen as early as 2024 and in fact in some ways i'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet but i i'm pretty sure it's coming and you know there are a number of of people on a number of on the republican side that want to run you know there's uh oh uh christy gnome from out in in south dakota.

There's also nicky haley who's uh also very much pushing for that uh as well and there are probably some others but those are two of the the top names and you know it is uh you know i think back on when when sarah palin ran as a vice presidential candidate along with john mccain there are lots and lots of christians who came out in support of her because she she at least claims to be a christian and you know there there was a lot of support for her from uh from people who are christians and and they're making a a serious mistake in in supporting a woman for for president or for any other political office.

You know that is you know that is something that was given to men and i know even by saying this i'm probably likely to get a lot of people riled up uh at me for for this but that is that is the christian stance you know the the government is probably something that's done by men you know and i know a lot of people will they say will flip out when i say that uh but that is something and i believe you can prove that very well from scripture and i believe john knox did prove that and he's of course not the only one to believe that but he's probably the one that stated that the best and i really highly recommend you read his essay there's a a version of that that was done by the trinity foundation a number of years ago.

I think it was in 1990 i think at that time that was when no 19 1988 i think is when that was put out and and i think the occasion i don't know this for sure but i think most likely that was done because michael dukakis who was the the the uh democratic candidate for president that year he ran against george herbert walker bush and lost.