Sept 10, 2026 Show with Dr. Edward Dalcour & Dr. Paul Nelson on “Essential Ingredients for Faithful Evangelism & More”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

The Program's Biblical Foundation and the Death of Evangelism

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 10th day of September 2026.

Anybody who listens to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, especially if you've been listening for a number of years, you must have gotten the hint by now that I am not an ecumenist. And in fact, I despise the fact that ecumenism is growing rampant even amongst professedly Reformed Christians and churches and denominations and fellowships and seminaries and so on.

And we are going to be talking about ecumenism, the death of evangelism today. And we have two ideal guests to discuss that theme, that very weighty and important theme. First of all, we have joining us—and thankfully, he finally did join us.

I was getting worried there because he was not on the screen moments ago—Dr. Edward Delcor, president of the Department of Christian Defense, dean of research studies, and professor of Christian apologetics at Forge Theological Seminary in Charleston, South Carolina, and team member with First Love Ministries.

He's also an author, debater, and conference speaker. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Edward Delcor.

Hey, thank you very much, Chris. It's good to see you again. I know I haven't been on for a while, but I'm delighted to be back, especially talking about what's up and coming.

Great. And we also have joining us Dr. Paul Nelson, president of Grace Bible University in Baghdad, Florida, a team member with First Love Ministries. He's an author and conference speaker. And it's my privilege to welcome you back as well to the show, Dr. Paul Nelson.

Wow, it's good to be back. It's been a while, too, for me since I've been on your show. And just thank you for inviting me to be here.

My pleasure. And before we go into the theme that I just mentioned, Dr. Delcor, perhaps you could start giving us a description about the upcoming conference that First Love Ministries is conducting and hosting on end times readiness.

End-Times Watchfulness and Readiness for Christ's Return

Yeah, on end times readiness, I believe the main theme is the watchfulness of Christians in these end times. And we know it's been the end times since the first century, but now we have a date. No, I'm just kidding.

We don't have a date, but we are in the end times since the first century. And there is, I think, for Christians a proper way to live according to what Scripture says, not only if Christ comes tomorrow or if Christ comes in a hundred years, we should live the same, we should be consistent.

So this conference is about the readiness, the watchfulness. We're going to go through some of the main and plain passages of the second coming, some of the places where the apostles encouraged their audience to be ready.

And I'm excited about it because I'm going to be dealing with some of my favorite verses like 2 Peter chapter 3 and Titus 2. So, and I know there's this, I believe this is the first time we had a conference like this, the readiness.

Now keep in mind, it's not asserting a particular position, but rather a general admonishment for Christians to be ready in these times. We know these times are horrible. And actually, you know, frankly, from the first, second century on, times have been horrible.

It was really bad. You have to go back 500 years or a thousand, it was even worse. But fact of the matter is, this conference will encourage Christians living out, you know, whatever time they have, because it's all, in one sense, it's all our end times is just being mortal.

And the fact of the matter is, the Bible has a lot to say about the readiness and watchfulness of what Christians are supposed to do.

And Dr. Paul Nelson, perhaps you can tell us the exact details about where this is being held, when, and how people can register and so on. Sure.

I'd love to. The location is at Christ Bible Church, 5901 Coronado Lane in Pleasanton, California. And the dates of the conference are September 17, Thursday through Saturday, September 19. And there'll be free books and refreshments and lunch provided at this conference.

So we're very much looking forward to it, kind of excited about it, but we don't want it to, I think, as Eddie was saying, we're not looking at it as, you know, a debate on eschatology, premillennial, postmillennial, homillennial.

We're focusing in on the readiness and how the readiness for Christ's return has serious effects on the way we live our life. And it becomes the motivation for holiness in our lives. And this is a free event, correct?

Yes, free. It's free. Did you say food, Paul?

I said free lunch and refreshments. Oh, yeah.

Yes, I'm going. You should get people signing up just for that. And if you live in the Pleasanton, California area, or if you live anywhere where you are capable of getting to Pleasanton, California by plane, train, or automobile, please mark this down on your calendar.

It's coming up very quickly, actually, September 17th through the 19th. That's a Thursday through Saturday. And there are many speakers at this event. And once again, the theme is actually end times watchfulness, end times watchfulness.

And you can register at firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org, and then just go to the very top of the page, and it says events, and click on events. And then you can click on upcoming events, and you will be able to find all you need to know.

You have to scroll down just a little bit to get to the end times watchfulness conference because there is one event listed above that. But just scroll down to the second annual First Love West Coast Bible Conference, September 17th through the 19th, 2026, end times watchfulness.

Biblical Unity Versus Unbiblical Ecumenism

Well, as I've already said in my opening statements, Ed Delcor, that acumenism, modern acumenism, has become one of the areas within the Christian faith that has bothered me more than many areas. It is especially shocking, as I said before, when theologically Reformed individuals and organizations are becoming more and more ecumenical with Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy.

It is amazing to me that some of the greatest minds of Christianity today in the 21st century who understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, some of them have written extensively about it and preached vociferously and frequently on the gospel of Jesus Christ.

They appear to know very well what the gospel is. It's quite clear they do. And yet, they do not find a problem with identifying those that reject the gospel, folks from within the Church of Rome and within the Eastern Orthodox Church.

They don't have a problem with welcoming them as brothers in Christ and involving themselves in ecumenical activities. It's just mind-boggling to me. But Dr. Delcor, and by the way, I don't know why your camera has been turned off, because these are being video recorded for future use on YouTube.

But Dr. Delcor, obviously, there is a biblical form of ecumenism. I host a biannual pastor's luncheon, and there are a wide spectrum of men that attend those events twice a year. There are many who share my Reformed views, Reformed Baptists, and there are Presbyterians and other Paedo-Baptists that attend, and there are Arminian evangelicals that attend, and there are Lutherans that attend, and there's just a wide range.

There's Anglicans that attend—a wide range of folks that I would consider my brothers in Christ, even though I have varying degrees of difference with them. And I'm not saying that the differences that I have with some of them are trivial or unimportant, but they are not issues that would deny the gospel and compel me to break fellowship with them or not even begin fellowship with them.

But there is a difference between biblical ecumenism and the kind of ecumenism where Christians are identifying as brethren gospel deniers. Isn't that true?

Yeah. Ecumenism, and just for definition's sake, ecumenism would be, from the adjective, ecumenical. What we mean by ecumenical comes from a Greek term, oikoumenin, which means the inhabitant or—and we see the term used in Scripture.

And with the ecumenist, it's an effort—now, you're right, there's two kinds of ecumenism. There's biblical ecumenism that seeks unity, not in spite of the essentials but around the essentials. That's different.

Like what you're doing, that's different. But today, there's a vast growing community of ecumenists who want unity in spite of the essentials, and that's where it's a death to evangelism. Because many of the—even when I'm doing a conference next week, it's a apologetic conference, and it's in Chino Hills at a Calvary Chapel church, and they're letting us use this building.

And we have some of the best and brightest people on Islam, so it's our 9 -11 conference that we do every year. And this one is special because it's the 25th year anniversary, and so we have a lot of speakers, we do a lot of polemics, apologetics, evangelism, and all these things.

Some of the best and brightest people in Islamic apologetics that know Islam back and forth are some of the most ecumenist people out there, some of the most ecumenical in terms of their doctrine. In other words, and here's the philosophy of the unbiblical ecumenism, it's simply this.

As long as you believe in the creed of Mysia, as long as you believe that, as long as you believe in the content of that creed, you're Christian.

And also the Apostles' Creed is also sometimes used.

And the Apostles' Creed, which are both great creeds used historically by the church. But the purpose was not so theological. The purpose was, like for the Nicene Creed, this was an issue with which the heretic Arius first prompted and it answered the question, the ontological relationship between the Father and Son.

It wasn't a Trinitarian council. It wasn't a, you know, what books are in, what books are out, you know, Bible books, canon council. It was, the main issue was the ontological relationship between the Father and Son.

So you're not going to get a mountain of information or in the creed on justification, all these other topics, because that wasn't the issue there. But today's ecumenists, and today the people that are some, not all, but many who are so good in Islam, meaning Islamic apologetics, and fighting against Islam and the doctrines and all these things, are horrible in theology.

And they're the unbiblical ecumenists. Because as long as the Roman Catholic, at Eastern Orthodox, Church of Christ, or whoever else, believes in the Trinity and the deity of Christ, the incarnation, you know, all the Christology there, they're saved, but we're going to work with them.

We see them as brothers and sisters in the Lord, huge problem with that, because it doesn't address the only recognized gospel, justification through faith alone. In fact, if you're an ecumenist and you see Roman Catholics as your brothers and sisters, you see the doctrines of Rome, the doctrines of Eastern Orthodox as compatible Christianity, that tells me one glaring thing.

You just don't see justification through faith alone as a essential doctrine, or you're just so biblically illiterate that you just don't know. You're walking in a dense fog theologically, and you're accepting idolaters when Scripture says have nothing to do with them, right?

Don't participate in the wicked works, right, of Paul talks about in Ephesians chapter 5, the wicked works of others, but rather don't participate in this, but rather expose them. They're not, don't have anything to do with them.

Paul says don't associate with idolaters, right? He said that in 1 Corinthians 5. Don't even eat with them. Well, they're taking and embracing the Roman doctrine as compatible with Christians. They see justification as, ah, you know, that's just a footnote.

We can still work together theologically and all these things. Remember, we're talking about theological unification with these people, the unbiblical ecumenists. And it just makes my blood boil because they are embracing people who hold to idolatry, and it's okay because justification is not part of the gospel.

And so that's the, that would be the unbiblical disowning to God kind of ecumenism. When Scripture says clearly don't associate with anyone who bears the name of Christ or brother and is an idolater, right?

1 Corinthians 5 .11. They do that. They do the opposite to that. That's why I say it's the death of evangelism. And one more point on this, why do I say it's the death of evangelism? Well, because evangelism teaches the entirety of the gospel, which includes justification through faith alone.

It's not just the deity of Christ. It's not just the Trinity. It's justification through faith alone, apart from works. It's unconditional righteousness, not conditional righteousness. So you don't have a gospel.

If you're an ecumenist, please stay home. All these guys out there, please jay-smith's home, or Bob the false builder at Speaker's Corner. You're a heretic and you're doing much damage to the real church of God.

Much damage. You're dishonoring the Lord openly. You're dishonoring the doctrines of Paul. And when God said don't be unequally doped with unbelievers, well, they just do the opposite of that in 2 Corinthians 6 .14.

So that's why it's the death of evangelism. Don't call yourself an evangelist because you're not preaching justification. If you're just doing polemics alone, that's meaningless. If you don't have a gospel and you just want to refute him, that's self-satisfying.

That's not the gospel. That's not the paradigm in Scripture of God's ordained method of saving his people. Or apologetics. Look, if you're an ecumenist, I'll probably repeat this. Don't say you're an apologist.

If you're embracing ecumenism, please don't say you're an apologist. That's a mockery to the cross because apologetics defends the faith. The faith includes all the Christology, but it includes God's method of justifying his people, of saving his people, justifying his people.

The justification, God's method has not changed. It's through faith alone. And that's where ecumenism becomes unbiblical. It's damaging evangelism. It's the opposite. And I think it helps promulgate the Islamic cause and the growth of Muslims.

Interpreting 1 Corinthians 5 and Rejecting Friendship Evangelism

Now, before I move on to Dr. Paul Nelson, I just wanted to have you clarify something, while the thought is fresh in my mind. Let me read again 1 Corinthians 5, verse 11. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler, not even to eat with such a person.

Now, that has been interpreted in different ways by even biblically sound people who do not believe in ecumenism. They would say that this is specifically discussing people who are apostates, perhaps even former members of your congregation, who are living in a state of unrepentance, either through ungodly, unholy living, unrepentantly, or religious heresy.

They would separate that from, for instance, people who invite their Catholic neighbors, or their Muslim neighbors, or their Hindu or Buddhist neighbors, or their atheist neighbors over to that house for a meal, a barbecue, and that kind of friendship building that you intend to use as a means by which God will draw these people to saving faith.

Cannot we, as Bible-believing Christians, legitimately have those kind of relationships and friendships with those that deny the gospel? Ed? Oh, you're asking me. I said, before I go to Paul, I wanted you to clarify that, since you were the one that brought up 1 Corinthians 5, 11.

Sure. Whether they're an apostate Christian, or whether they're in a non-Christian... Now, keep in mind that this would exclude Muslims, because they don't confess to be a brother. This would exclude a lot of folks.

A liberal Muslim might... Yeah, a liberal... Which is really fake Muslim. A liberal Muslim can't really be a true Quranic Hadith-following Muslim. But anyway, I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

Yeah, especially if they would have to be extremely liberal to claim their... Remember, these people...Paul's dealing with a particular sin here. He was so upset that the Corinthians were tolerating this sin of the son with his father's wife, and Paul was just amazed that they were just tolerating this sin.

But I think it's more of a general comment, because the sins Paul connects are not just casual sins. I mean, an idolatry would only be, I think, applied to someone, as Paul says, someone who claims they're a Christian...

Remember, claims they're a Christian and is practicing idolatry. That would be Rome. I don't agree with friendship evangelism. I'm saying, not that we... We have to be respectful, and we have to... I know in open-air evangelism and how they did it in the first century, they were respectful, but they didn't respect the doctrines.

They didn't respect the doctrines. We don't have to respect the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. But rather, we should see them out of love. We should see them as the object of evangelism.

And sometimes people will invite non-Christian faiths inside their house, really to a very slow drip, drip, drip process to try to somehow win them over by friendship. I just don't agree with that philosophy.

I think wherever you meet them, you should be prepared to give a simple but definitive gospel. You don't find this kind of thing, this friendship evangelism kind of thing in the New Testament, where Paul invites Simon or something into his house.

They're eating pita bread and drinking wine and, hey, just laughing. Hey, so where are you from? That's just not a method. And I think that kind of mentality, friendship evangelism, tells me one thing.

You just don't see the gospel as having the same power today as it did in the first century, where Paul said, the gospel is the power of God for salvation. Why can't I just use God's ordained method? Why can't I just take advantage of God's power through the proclamation of the gospel?

Why do I have to do other things that aren't biblically, example, like friendship evangelism? No, I'm just going to preach the gospel to them. That's how people are saved. That's what we see in the first century.

And I'll say this again. I probably said this a hundred times when I'm speaking. The object of when you're talking to a non-believer, whether it's on the street or if they walk in your house, I don't know why they would, but if they did, the object is, get to the cross as fast as possible.

Get to the cross as fast as possible. Because you can argue with the Jehovah's Witness about false prophecies. You can argue for an hour. You can argue for an hour in showing verifiable proof that Mohammed was a paedophile and how bad his, how sick he was.

You can argue these things for an hour. But guess what? What if the Jehovah's Witness, who you spend an hour on false prophecies, you know, you're showing all the evidence, all these things. What if he has a phone call and he has to leave?

Well, good. Well, thanks. You know, maybe we can continue some other time. You never got to the gospel. Same with the Muslim. You're talking about Mohammed's character, but you never got to the gospel.

Polemics is not the power of God for salvation. Yes, it was utilized, but very infrequently. In fact, the polemic passages, like in 2 Corinthians 10, this wasn't a step-by-step method of evangelism.

Paul was affirming his apostolicity there and affirming it to the opposers about yanking down their arguments and so on and so forth. And then apologetics. Chris, the hallmark of apologetic verses, right, that everyone appeals to by default would be 1 Peter 3 .15.

And they, you know, you ask what that means and they'll take out, always be ready to give an apologetic, which is true. We should always be equipped to give a defense. However, the first part of the verse is where the commandment is, set apart Jesus Christ as Lord in your heart.

Now the verb there, set apart, agiosata, that is the only commandment in that whole verse. It's not apologetics. It's not giving, it's set apart Jesus Christ as Lord and be equipped to be set Jesus apart in your heart as Yahweh, as Lord.

You're going to want to defend the gospel, the faith, and give a reason. And I think apologetics is twofold. It's defending, but it's giving a reason for the hope that you have, giving a reason for the hope that you have.

But the point there is, the only commandment there is to set apart Jesus Christ as Lord in your heart. So that's front of evangelism. I don't see it as a biblical method. I don't. I think you should be prepared to proclaim the gospel, the gospel of the Son.

And don't just drag them to your church because you want the passage to do your job. You've got to be equipped, not ecumenistically, but you've got to be equipped to be evangelist, not ecumenist, because that just confuses people because they see you and Rome as sharing the same theological philosophy.

That just confuses people. And most ecumenists never get to the gospel because they just want to refute. They never get to the gospel. So that's what I would say about 1 Corinthians chapter 5.

Now, obviously, the term friendship evangelism has been abused because people are out there with an evangelicalism who regurgitate the motto that is wrongly attributed to Saint Francis of Assisi, preach the gospel often, and when necessary, use words, which churns my stomach.

But there is a different way of looking at friendship evangelism. You have people who may already be your friends. You have gotten saved, and you have friends that still exist who are not yet converted.

And you invite them to your home for a meal, and you use that opportunity to, obviously, without hitting them with a sledgehammer and perhaps even behaving like those that James warns about, where it's a faith of words only and you're not demonstrating love to people, I think there is a legitimate avenue to demonstrate the love of Christ to people as a vehicle to bring them the gospel.

For instance, my sister is a Roman Catholic, and if I'm visiting Long Island, I'm not going to not have a meal with her at her home because she's Catholic. To me, that would just give an appearance of arrogance on my part of some kind of bigotry or something like that.

But anyway, Paul, do you have any thoughts on this?

Paul. Yeah, I mean, there are things that open the door for the gospel, and not necessarily friendship with the world, but acts of mercy, acts of kindness, being gracious, opens the door for the gospel.

And I think associating in friendship with the world will take you down the wrong road, and they'll affect you more than you affect them. But in regards to the gospel, the context of the gospel, philanthropic works have been used for many years, medical assistance, dental assistance, where you would show your love to a lost and dying world, but they would see that as genuine, and it would open the door for a gospel presentation.

So it's more of a preliminary of the gospel. But on the other side of it, friendship with the world, I think, is spoken against in the Word of God. And our relationships with the world have to be in the context of an evangelistic relationship.

We can be kind, we can be generous, but how do we treat them? We don't treat them as an equal. We treat them as a sinner that needs to be saved, and it's an evangelical relationship.

Tom. Well, let me come back from there. Ed. You could comment, Ed, before I go to the break.

Ed. Oh, I was going to say, yeah, I think a lot of times on this issue, we do got to use wisdom. And of course, as you know, Chris, having family members in opposition groups could be extremely difficult, because a lot of times when you get together, your religion's off the table, because it will cause hostility, it will cause all these things.

So sometimes you got to use wisdom. But always, as James points out, always demonstrate your justification by the love that you have. That was James' main work in chapter 2 of James. Demonstrate the work which he speaks about.

He already defined the royal love, but the work he speaks about is something that demonstrates before man our position in Christ. So we should always be respectful, but not respect doctrine. I think that's Paul's main point here when he says don't associate with him, don't be partakers, don't give a thumbs up to their doctrine, and so on and so forth.

And as you rightly said, I think there is a differentiation between how modern evangelism is friendship evangelism. Modern evangelism talks about the love of God and God has a great plan for your life and all these things, where biblical evangelism doesn't, they get to the cross as fast as possible.

So yeah, I agree on all fronts. What you're saying, what I'm saying, and what Paul's saying, we have to use wisdom on this, but Paul, the apostle, I think he makes a clear point. It's a dangerous thing to do friendship evangelism with pagans.

It's just a very dangerous thing. And there are, of course, there are instances where wisdom would really have to be on the forefront, because you're right, we don't want to treat them, someone hostile, because we're mad at the doctrine.

So that wouldn't be good. But we do want to not partake in their own false doctrine.

Tom, and by the way, folks, for those of you listening who may often fondly quote what I just said before, the quote that is erroneously attributed to St. Francis of Assisi, often preached the gospel often, and when necessary use words, just consider something if you haven't ceased using that drivel in your thought process, in your motto of life.

If that was the way that the disciples of Jesus Christ functioned, none of them would have been martyrs. Even Jesus Christ himself, if God had not obviously foreordained his death and orchestrated every moment of it, he would not have been crucified, because if he was just doing good deeds and never challenging the Pharisees and the enemies of the gospel, he would not have been crucified.

But just something to think about. We're going to be back after these messages from our sponsors. If you would like to submit a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, this is Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And my two guests today are Edward Delcor and Paul Nelson, who are both on the team of First Love Ministries. We are promoting the End Times Watchfulness Conference coming up September 17th through the 19th in Pleasanton, California.

And we are also discussing a very controversial theme, and that involves modern ecumenism and how it is very dangerous to the gospel of Jesus Christ. The death of evangelism is how my guest, Edward Delcor, phrased it specifically, ecumenism, the death of evangelism.

And before I go to my first listener question in Sharpsburg, Georgia, I have a question of my own, just to get an idea of what you men think of something I'm doing tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

On very rare occasions, I will have someone who I believe has a false gospel on the show, and my reasons for doing so are to hear from the person's own lips certain things about the religion that they belong to.

I'll give you the specific details tomorrow. I'm interviewing, once again, Robertson Jenis, who is a Roman Catholic apologist. And I am going to be, as I always do when I have somebody such as a Roman Catholic on my show, which is rare, but when I do, I make it very clear from the very beginning of the program throughout the program, when I return from every commercial break and even to the end of the program, I make it clear that this is not an exercise of ecumenism, that I do not believe that my guest possesses the true gospel, and that my reasons for having him on are educational only.

And in this case, he is going to be giving a conservative Catholic's assessment of the Church of Rome from the left wing to the right wing, and he's going to be assessing an interview I had with the Society of St. Pius X priest on the excommunication of their bishops.

And he was in disagreement with a lot of what that priest said. So, I'll start with you, Ed. Do you think that I am in error by having such a program?

No, because the objective is evangelism. The objective is to confront the false teaching. The objective is not to talk about where he's from and whose favorite food is, but rather you're having him for educational purposes, understanding and qualifying that Roman Catholicism is a false church.