Cultish: Engaging the New Age Part 2

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Inside the Mind of Manson: Part 3

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All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to part two of our cultish episode on navigating the new age cult

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I am here once again with Stephen Bancars who has co -authored the book the second coming the new age along with he

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Co -authored that with Josh Peck Stephen how are you my friend? It's good to talk to you again. Yeah, I'm good, man.

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Thanks for having me on. Absolutely So sometimes we're we run the studio we run here

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Sometimes comes full surprises and like I said pastor Jeff also has pastoral work He has to do and just so happens that he had something come up.

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I had an appointment He had to attend so I am going to go ahead and host part two with you

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I'm just kind of navigating more of aspects of the new age So what

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I want to talk about Stephen again in your book a second coming of the new age You had a chapter which really caught my attention

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For several reasons it was the it was really on the importance of of science because what you talk about in this chapter and you can elaborate on this is that there are aspects of How right now out like I said it you met with that quote in the very first episode that clip of Walter Marr And talking about how the new age is now getting organized.

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There's aspects in which they are using Quantum physics or different aspects of kind of mixing

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Modern day astronomy like with astrology, but trying everything they can to make it reality

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In fact, I saw a couple examples in regards to you know, there's there's a science of health There's videos.

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I've seen where people that you see that intermixed with a lot of the differently even food like even

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Digit digestion and like having a healthy gut I've seen even in the health food stores a lot of these ideas

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There's certain cleansing that you can do there's different Health foods that you can take which will help

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You know cleanse out awaken your chakras and awake and also help with your pineal

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Awaken your pineal gland and and they'll mention like Kundalini intermix like with health food and all that sort of stuff

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But with chapter 4 called science falsely So -called what

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I found fascinating is how you laid the foundation for truth and I'm gonna read it actually and you can expound on this and this is

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John chapter 18 37 through 38 and This is

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Jesus talking to Pontius Pilate And Jesus says for this purpose I was born and for this purpose

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I have come into the world to bear witness to the truth Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice

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Pilate said to him what is truth and he walked away so my question you

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Stephen in this chapter on the base in bringing up this aspect of science and the Christian basis of science in Comparison to the

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New Age What prompted you to? Have the foundation be this passage here in the gospel where Jesus is talking to Pilate What prompted me was the fact that when

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I came to Christ when I gave my life to Jesus and I was trying to tell You know these hundreds of thousands of new it literally hundreds of thousands of people that were

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Debating me launching objections toward me a lot of their objections were making epistemological claims about the nature of truth

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So they would say things like well truth is that which resonates with you, you know truth is that which serves you

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Truth is that which or there is no objective standard of truth truth is relative to the individual

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So what inspired me to write this chapter, which I'm passionate about I love this chapter. It's the fourth chapter is

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The fact that you can eradicate and undermine 80 % of New Agers concerns and objections the minute you establish truth is that which corresponds to reality?

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hmm, so Christians believe in a correspondence theory of truth, which generally speaking is defined as you know, a

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Proposition is true If and only if it corresponds to this to the state of affairs in the world to the way that things actually are

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Objectively speaking. So the proposition Jesus Rose from the dead 2 ,000 years ago that proposition is true

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If and only if Jesus actually died and rose from the dead 2 ,000 years ago as a historical event doesn't matter if it makes me feel good if it's challenging

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It doesn't matter if it serves me what matters is did it happen? you know the Bible says the Lord declares what is right and in the

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New Age movement you have People teaching what's called a correspondence theory of truth

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Never you have people teaching what's called a pragmatic theory of truth and a coherence theory of truth I want to define these these really quick So yeah, and it's important that Christians learn how to think in terms of the correspondence theory of truth

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That's the one the Bible advocates. That's when Jesus advocates and that's why his claims are so powerful because he is speaking

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This is the way things objectively are and if you don't line up with the way things actually are there's going to be

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Consequences because the truth is binding Objective truth is binding on those who reject it

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But in the New Age movement, you'll have people say, you know truth is that which serves me?

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So if it serves me to think that you know after I leave this world I'll go to some neutral spirit world and float around in me with my soul group and this other cluster of souls who have a

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Relative degree of development as I do and then I'll go through a life review with my spirit guides

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And I'll get to mingle with my family and then I'll incarnate again and I'll choose all of my suffering in advance

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Because I want to devote develop my soul's wisdom. So all the suffering I go through I determine and plan in advance

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I pick my abuse of parents I pick my bullies at school so that I can learn certain lessons about compassion about empathy

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It gives me a sense of meaning and purpose to the suffering I endured knowing that I was in full sovereignty the entire time and it is

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Existentially a leaving to think in those terms, but it's not true But if you believe that truth is that which serves you you're gonna be more inclined to believe things like that and so the other one would be the the the coherence theory of truth

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Which is something is true if it meshes well with propositions that I already believe to be true

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Mmm, which is so weird which is basically what determines something whether something is true or not is how it

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Relates internally to my psychological state has nothing to do with the external world at all.

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And these are extremely flawed for example You know what you already believe might be false and therefore what?

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Coheres with your current set of beliefs is completely irrelevant because your current set of beliefs is false to begin with There's so many objections we go through them in the book

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But what inspired me to write that chapter is the fact that the New Age movement it makes its money on abusing pseudo -scientific discovery and Twisting what actually happened they conflate observation and interpretation

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So something happens actual science would be what Christians honor and respect which is there's a hypothesis

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We have a basis for in a Christian will do Exactly we have a basis for affirming the laws of logic and the uniformity in nature

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We have an actual Deductive argument for why we believe the Sun is going to rise the next day as opposed to an abductive invalid argument

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You know, there's hypothesis prediction testing and an analysis that's the way science is supposed to be done, but in the

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New Age roof and what you have is they'll go into the field of science and They will confuse

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Their observe the observation of something They read an interpretation into the observation itself.

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So I want to give an example here So in the New Age movement something that's really prominent Is this idea of quantum physics?

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There's what's called the double slit experiment where you have an electron that has what's called wave particle duality

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So it's able to be measured sometimes as a particle and sometimes as a wave But when you try to observe it while it's in its wave function its wave function

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Collapses and it now can only be measured as a solid stable object Whereas before it can be measured in different places smeared out across space.

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Are you following? Yeah, so wave particle duality So what what people in the new and this is there's different interpretations for why this happens

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One is as simple as when we put a detector there to try and observe what's happening It adds extra particles to the experiment which causes some interference

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Another Observation or a story another interpretation would be that there is some relationship between consciousness and the material world

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That's all you'd be able to say from that. We don't know what it is We don't know why but what New Age teachers like Deepak Chopra for example will do will say aha therefore that proves everything is part of one big unified field of consciousness that this unified field of consciousness is actually

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God by nature and that Everything in the universe emanates from this universal field

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And you know the law of attraction emanates from this scientific fact I believe in Eastern mysticism and pantheism it all emanates from a misuse of a real scientific discovery a

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Misinterpretation New Age teachers reading their worldview into science when that's when it's simply unviable to do so and unjustifiable to do so so yeah what inspired me to write that chapter was the fact that a

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Lot of the New Age youth and you can just do away with immediately when you establish truth Is that which corresponds to reality and there's a way by which we can assess truth claims.

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There's the scientific method There's the historical method which will look at things like multiple added attestation.

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So sorry I'm kind of we're gonna rant here. But no, it's great man. Let's take a look at Atlantis for example

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Yeah, so as far as multiple attestation goes, which is a criteria of historical authenticity

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You want to find multiple sources that date early to the event of early as early to the events as you possibly can

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So you're looking for early multiple attestation as to historical criteria Atlantis has one source that dates apparently 10 ,000 years later to the time of Plato And he's your he mentions it

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Not as a real place, but as some kind of mythical place somebody he knew made up Like there's no record in the ancient world of anything that has to do with Atlantis There simply isn't it fails historically by any test.

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That's why historians don't take it. Seriously Yeah I want to jump in just real quickly and comment on that and I've seen you mentioned this before it seems to me that as a whole

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The new any New Age guru or just the New Age movement Whatever angle it's from it seems to me

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They do not in any way hold to the same standard that works that they appeal to as far as being

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Authoritative for these are the ultimate sources of ancient knowledge they're looking at things that are you know, you mentioned like 800 years apart from the time of its alleged original event, but they seem to Completely ignore the fact of the rely the historical reliability with all the

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New Testaments and manuscripts That's just one thing that and I've seen you comment that that's the one thing. It's always struck my attention

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I know I had had some brought to my attention There's alleged this is gospel of the Essenes where supposedly

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Jesus is is a is a vegan He's compassionate towards animals and I looked at the the his the historical

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Any of the history behind it and I did not find anything Relatively remotely close to what we like what we have in the

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New Testament You'll see different accounts like the Gospel of Thomas and things like that But it always it seems to me like said they appeal to these sources

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They don't hold the same standard of historical authenticity you you would agree with that, right? Oh, of course not know that they don't have a standard their standard is their confirmation bias

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Yeah, they're told to create a worldview pick and choose what resonates with you and that can be your own subjective truth

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Truth is relative to the individual. There's no absolute truth There's only your truth versus my truth and so create a worldview that suits yourself, you know, create your own reality

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You have full sovereignty over What constitutes the truth and what doesn't in your own life and so forth it's just so Baseless in reality.

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I remember I was at a New Age conference one time and and there was so much garbage I heard you know, there was one woman who said that she was, you know, hanging out with dolphin people like people who were half dolphin half human and and and she would just spend time with them and another person was saying how she

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Would teleport from country to country and she could do it right now I could just meditate and go to another country and I was laying in bed after and I was just saying in my head over and over again 2 plus 2 equals 4 2 plus 2 equals

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Because there's actual substance there and and when it comes to yeah the New Age movement There's no something that was really important for me to learn as someone who is a philosophy major In university even as I was in the

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New Age movement just basics when it comes to ascertaining Any kind of truth scientific philosophical or historicity what you want to do is you want to infer to the best explanation?

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Which means that you're gonna look for certain criteria that qualifies something as being the best explanation you don't gravitate toward what's possible

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You go you gravitate toward what's most likely and there's certain criteria that qualifies something as being most likely for example

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Explanatory power does it explain the data? Well Explanatory scope how much of the data does it explain?

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Simplicity is it multiplying causes beyond necessity? Does this accord with already accepted facts about reality?

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Yeah Degree of ad hocness. Is this explanation contrived for the purpose of saving a pre -existing theory?

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So an example of that that that we give in the book in the chapter would be Bigfoot where New Age teachers

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Will give an explanation for these Bigfoot sightings as being you know It's an interdimensional alien that inhabits this ape like species and it's an interdimensional being now an alien inhabited interdimensional

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Gorilla type thing, but they would but they would assume that Almost they would view any sort of evidence of what you see.

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I actually have a Gal from our church She's from Portland, Oregon and and she actually is our she believes in Bigfoot and we've had conversation about that Which has been entertaining but um, you know and even in that conversation though You know, whatever the evidence is and isn't for that and I again

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I haven't really looked into all the aspects of that But um, it was seen to me though and you would agree that a lot of times they would look at something like Bigfoot, but they they had already have come from it

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They already they had already have bias in the lens in which they look through To then explain that prior to even looking at the evidence.

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That's right And the evidence won't sway their position another major example would be well back the Bigfoot example real quick.

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So This example this explanation does it explain the data? Well, yeah, it does does it explain all the data?

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Yeah, it does but is it simple? Is it the simplest explanation and so far as it is it not multiplying causes beyond necessity?

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We can simply say You know, it's an ape We don't need to see is to say it's an alien from the planet

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Mars from 500 ,000 years ago Inhabiting an ape -like species that does not also it also doesn't accord with the already accepted facts that we agree upon scientifically and historically

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It just fails as being the best explanation and new age teachers capitalize on people having a loose or distorted view of epistemology, they don't have an understanding of how a theory of knowledge ought to work and you know

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Crystal healing would be another example where you know Scientific studies have come out actual scientific studies have come out showing that there's no energetic properties to crystals compared to a placebo

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And yet people there's multiple studies confirming that and peer -reviewed and but people don't care they'll still hold on to their crystals

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They'll still continue to indulge in this billion dollar industry, even though science is telling them It's in the power of their mind and it has no actual tangible

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Metaphysical property in any way that can be measured. It's actually been disconfirmed from double -blind studies Go ahead.

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Yeah, weren't there on studies that were done where it was like a double blind placebo test

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And I think I remember hearing this is that they took What basically mock crystals?

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They were they were not they were not crystals and they just people believe that they were They had special energies and people were having the same sort of experiences

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Assuming that they were you know, just because of they mean the idea of like even I mean, obviously there's there's the element the spiritual element that we've talked about but there is the idea of like auto suggestion or just Being being led or having a placebo convince yourself that something is going on when it's really not

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That's right. So people were instructed to hold a Crystal in their hand.

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They weren't told whether it was a real crystal or a fake crystal and There was no measurable difference from there the the participants observation

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In the energy they would feel in their hand from a real crystal compared to a fake crystal but what's interesting is that those who were primed beforehand by the person handing them the crystal to believe that they had some kind of Metaphysical power some kind of energetic nature to them those who were primed

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Did they reported greater Energetic sensation in their hand even if they were holding the fake crystal

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So they're bringing confirmation bias to their practices, which is causing them to you know

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Read into these experiences thinking they're having them when there's no science Backing up there's the scientific claims that they're actually making now when it comes to things that are purely metaphysical

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That's that's slightly different when it comes to things that are scientific and historical like Atlantis like crystals like the double slit experiment

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These are scientific claims They're historical claims and there's ways by which you know people for thousands of years have ascertained are the best ways to assess these claims and That's really what chapter 4 is about is it's basically a crash course on the basics of epistemology and how the new age movement

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Literally makes its money actually makes money off of a false epistemology of false theory of knowledge

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Yeah, that's and I think that's that's awesome and I think the one thing is I really appreciate about this chapter and you guys will appreciate that if you

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Once again, if you get to his book second come of the new age If you want to go to the new age cult comm you can purchase that book yourself

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It's that chapter is very important because a lot of times you degree Stephen is that a lot of the new age thought and ideology it's always it's really promoted as the religion or Spirituality of the intellect appeals to the intellect

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Like you said you when you were in the new age you had you have this almost you say a superiority Complex do you have a special knowledge that no one else has and a lot of times?

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And I'm sure you to testify that a lot of times you would see you saw like people who are Christians or Christianity as people who are just kind of really blinded and kind of like lived in fear and the

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Bible just you it was something there to kind of Have prevent us from using our intellect when in reality

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You just talking right here is a great example that being a Christian Christianity is the mind of the intellect like when

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God says we're also love the Lord our God with our all our heart soul mind and strength that when you have people that are making these claims appearing like appealing to You know allegedly like different ideas of like metal

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Different metaphysics and quantum physics and even trying to mix astronomy with astrology Like we have to be able to give a more definitive answer than just Jesus loves me and this

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I know for the Bible tells Me so I think that's a great great example. So again, definitely definitely get

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Stephen's book here another thing I want to just kind of jump into is Really like the realm of like psychic phenomena.

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So there's different aspects of it. We've experienced it here We had a situation at church where we had a chiropractor

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That we were connected to like a lot of families were connected to connected to and they he was involved in something called at dowsing

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And it had like different like ESP And so there's you see a lot of those things where it's it's inundated

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We're seeing it now in a day within the medical field both like within health those sorts of things

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But talk just a little bit about some of the psychic phenomenon, especially when it comes to like ESP and those sorts of things

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Yeah, there was some information. I was coming across once again. These studies aren't peer -reviewed and they aren't replicated and You see some off study, you know

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Documented from from 30 years ago or 50 or 60 years ago that they're using to create an entire metaphysics around I want to give you an example.

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Yeah Someone named dr. Glenn Ryan who apparently did this this study where?

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They would have DNA in a hermetically sealed container and they would project thoughts of love at this

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DNA as it's in this hermetically sealed container and There's no way for anything outside of it to influence influence the

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DNA and when they would project thoughts of love Toward this DNA the DNA would be begin to kind of relax and unravel so that RNA could go in and heal it so it began to heal itself in the presence of loving intention now is

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This literal is this possible I think it could be theoretically possible that our intention and kind of I do believe for example

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We emit sort of an energy. We have an energy field to our heart Well, yeah, like I'm even biblically like Proverbs like Proverbs says like life and death is in the power of the tongue

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So you have the ability, you know Looking as a Christian like you have the ability like with your words to either, you know

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Build someone up or to cut that's why like James says like, you know tame the tongue and that's from a

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Christian worldview Whereas a new age would be like you you your words You're speaking your worlds into you're speaking things like into existence.

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You're creating like your own realities There's a differentiation there, right? and there's a difference between between saying is this possible and does it seem sensible and is this scientifically viable and demonstrable and The latter is what we're after and we're not justified in building a worldview around something that's a scientific claim unless it's scientifically demonstrable and In the new age movement, you'll have other off and that that's never been replicated.

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There's it's never been peer -reviewed It's just some dude who did that study who has some kind of credentials and some general field of study

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So another one would be you know, there was this experiment they did in China apparently where they would have a person who was trained in what's called remote viewing and yeah, they would go into a meditative state of consciousness and reach a state of what they would call pure consciousness and Then they would try and go in and read it would be a pitch -black room where there would be something

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Hanging from the ceiling was a Chinese letter written on a card that was hanging from the ceiling and what they wanted these

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Remote viewers to do was to try and go in there and read What the card said as their body was outside of the room and what they would notice

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Apparently they had a light detector in there and there would be a surge of photons in the room

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When the person would read the card correctly, there was apparently a detectable Surge of a pro of photons.

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Sorry light particles in the room. And so that to me was like, okay interesting Maybe he has a light body and in the thought realm in a way that it translates to the physical

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There's some kind of way to go into your mental body and leave and go into another room and experience it in a way

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That's that it's measurable But once again, so if you get all of these studies that seem like they're not impossible

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It's not absolutely impossible and you combine 10 20 30 40 50

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I could list study after study like this. I was obsessed. I could list pyramid technology Pineal gland types that I could

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I could rant Can I ask you this real quickly because I mean I this right we did But we did a really good job in the first episode of defining terms a lot of different gurus will use the same

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This isn't again this important because there's language that our culture is inundated with like I said the chakra

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That's something you will hear a lot. You walk into any like Whole Foods or health food store go there go to the book section

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You're gonna see something on that Define like what what is define? And what is the pineal gland like a

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New Age style? Like what is that and it's that's related to the Kundalini in your spine and that goes to the chakras of those

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Those are kind of like different parts of a thing or they weren't the same Describe the the pineal glabra just just to finish up that that last point

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What I was getting at is that if you combine all of these pseudo scientific studies that haven't been replicated

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They haven't been peer -reviewed They're not taken seriously by any expert in any relevant field of study and you combine 20 30 40 of them all of a sudden you're believing what the average population would call woo -woo and You know,

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I I did I believed in things, you know, these these weren't valid studies I thought they were my understanding of the scientific process was flawed

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Could I make sense of the findings of these studies given what I thought and and believed about the metaphysical room?

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Yeah, I could but when it came down to the actual nuts and bolts of it, there was no scientifically verifiable evidence

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There's no justification for me actually investing my belief into these propositions

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And that's why this chapter is so important because people are getting robbed Left right and center of the actual truth because someone with you know, some kind of credential, you know comes out and does this study 20 30 years ago and now new age teachers are capitalizing and say oh this hidden this hidden study found that you know

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There's so many different things relationships between you know, oh another one Yeah.

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Yeah. Okay. So hold on. I'll get to the pineal gland. I miss that. So this is great. I love it Yeah. Yeah, so there's this study

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Called by done by someone named. Dr. Cleave Baxter. Okay, who found that he put you know certain sensors on plant leaves that are meant to detect electrical activity on the surface of human skin, but he put it on plant leaves and when somebody walked in with What was it?

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When somebody walked in who had negative energy was protecting projecting negative energy at the plant

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It had a response on its leaves apparently, right? Here's another thing when somebody burnt a plant and this plant was around the other plant being burned

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Just being in the presence of that person Would cause this electrical activity on the on the leaf of the plant to respond apparently as if it kind of knew it was next

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Hey that that guy burnt my friend and here I come, you know I'm the next one on his list on his hit list and people listen to this.

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They eat this up, man It's called the Baxter effect, you know spirit science the Baxter effect. Oh, it's so cool. So amazing

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Has it ever been replicated? No, has it ever been peer -reviewed? No. Yeah Here's what they'll do is they'll use that to springboard into this idea that plants have consciousness that the earth itself has consciousness that there's no such thing as inanimate matter that everything that is alive has its own intelligence that we're a part of that we can

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Interact with telepathically and therefore we should have telepathic Relationships with plants that's part of what's gonna heal our soul in here or heal

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Our planet is when we start recognizing the intrinsic intelligence that's in plants and in nature and start building relationship with it

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You know all this thing. There's all this pagan worldview wrapped up around these garbage studies for these garbage studies

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Anyway, the pineal gland there is some interesting information about the pineal gland once again

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These studies that I'm getting my hands on a lot of them came from someone named David Wilcock From from a book called the source field investigations, which was unfortunately a

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New York Times bestseller Yeah in a certain category and he said multiple New York Times best -selling books

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He is a big part of Gaia. He actually left a guy recently accusing them of being involved in Luciferian philosophy

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He wiped his hands. He's like you guys are Luciferian. I'm done here. He's like, here's what he said He's like when you guys talk about God, you're not talking about the true

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God the God of the Bible Wow, bro, yeah, so exactly so he's not a

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Christian but he's sympathetic to the biblical worldview to the Christian worldview and he reamed on them for not talking about the true

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God the God of the God of the Bible and for being Luciferian and he wiped his hands of Gaia TV and of Graham Hancock who wrote fingerprints of the gods another staple in the new age community.

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So I emailed them I have I haven't heard back from them. I want to get in contact with David Wilcock. He's someone who could use our prayers

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Yes Crazy though crazy bomb dropped the new age community was going nuts because his letter of resignation got leaked where he literally resigned

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From Gaia saying, you know, you guys it's repackaged Satanism. You believe humanity was created by some

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You know some reptilian type creature who's at war with Yahweh And he's like you guys just won't admit it and come out and say it plainly

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Anyway, the pineal a lot of hit my information came from him. I was obsessed with his work Yeah, and he's not he's not a scientist, right?

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He has I think he has a degree in in communications He doesn't have any any degree in any of irrelevant any degree in any relevant field of study to be able to Posture himself as being a teacher of such things

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But anyway, the point is the pineal gland is believed to be it's an actual gland. It actually exists it's kind of pinned in the center of the two hemispheres of the brain and it's responsible for the production of Melatonin and I also believe serotonin

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It produces certain hormones that help regulate systems in the body and There are certain properties to the pineal gland

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That make it Mysterious and new age teachers capitalize on that So one of these things is it's believed to be filled with certain crystals and these crystals can become

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Calcified when things like fluoride get in them and they become hardened and the new age teachers will say, you know

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First of all, this pineal gland is your psychic eye into the spirit world You want this thing as clean as can possibly be you don't want any calcification there because you want it to be fully functional

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As your bridge between the physical and the natural they believe so you have an you have an immaterial substance

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We as Christians believe this and then you have the physical body. And and so how do they interact with one another?

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How do they connect? Where's that bridge that connecting point the new age teachers will tell you it's the pineal gland

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That is where your soul and your spirit however, you want to define those things. That's where your immaterial being Connects with your physical being that's how

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I'm able to control and use my brain control my mouth and so forth is because there's a connection between my physical organism and My soul through the medium of the pineal gland and therefore, you know, you want to make sure that thing is, you know

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Squeaky clean you want to be doing pineal gland pineal gland detoxes and you want to be doing pineal gland

30:37

Meditations and try and open that third eye, you know, and here's what I want Yeah, and here's what just comment on that on real quickly because we're talking about, you know

30:44

The appeal to science at least they're trying to do it. And this is where I believe this is where the pseudoscience come in This is where you want to call them out

30:52

Is that part of the scientific method is that something has to be observable and it has to be provable and repeatable

30:59

But here they are. They go to this aspect of the pineal gland, but they're appealing to the mystery of what is not observable and They're not showing giving an end demonstration that's repeatable

31:10

But then they're instead they're filling in the blanks with their assumptions So they're not just saying they're not scientifically really showing that it is

31:17

They are just if this then that also bring in their their worldview

31:22

So you kind of see there's like it's almost seems to me like it's like a bait -and -switch With how they're promoting what this actually is versus, you know

31:30

What it is if you approach it from a strictly observable scientific method Exactly and then the pineal gland is a really good example of how they kind of conflate science with pseudoscience and Observation with interpretation.

31:44

So there's other beliefs they have about the pineal gland They believe that the pineal gland there's no real good evidence for this either that the crystals in the pineal gland are piezoelectric

31:54

Meaning that they expand and contract in the presence of electromagnetic fields, which is kind of like a crystal used in a radio

32:02

Old radios used to use crystals in there and depending on how that crystal was compressed It would tune in to different signals if you will

32:09

So there's this argument that oh we have similar crystals like this in our pineal gland that are meant to be attuned to the spirit world yeah, and so it's some kind of spiritual gateway that we need to be keeping extra clean and Focusing on cleansing that pineal that third eye chakra

32:24

We need we need to cleanse that third eye chakra that energy center right in the middle of your forehead We need to keep that ultra clean.

32:29

Here's how you do that Here's how to decalcify it Here's some meditations and some mantras to cleanse your pineal gland to have that gateway that connection point to the spirit ultra clean

32:38

Another thing they'll say is this they'll say it promotes DMT And DMT is the most hallucinogenic compound on Planet Earth that part is true

32:47

Yes, it occurs naturally in nature and can be extracted from from certain plant roots and so forth

32:53

But they'll say it's produced naturally by the pineal gland During dreams and during mystical experiences and such

32:59

You know as far as actual scientific studies studies are concerned There's no good evidence to support the link between the pineal gland and DMT That's just kind of a rumor that nobody checks them on but that is a staple idea in the new age movement

33:13

Which creates this pineal gland based spirituality and chakra based spirituality promotes

33:18

DMT We need to you know The cleaner and the more in tune we are with our pineal gland the more we're gonna have these mystical

33:24

Experiences induced by DMT and there's just all this garbage wrapped up around the pineal gland when you actually ask

33:30

Okay, can you give me a list of the studies that are peer -reviewed? Yeah that are documented There's literally nothing to show for it.

33:37

And I want to make a distinction between Mystical experiences in the new age, which I want to affirm in which we spend in the first episode affirming that yeah

33:45

These things are veridical They're actually happening and the scientific claims that people make based off these mystical experiences

33:53

Or they're misreading of science or their use of pseudoscience Which needs to be checked and needs to be people need to be held accountable

34:01

You know teachers need to be held accountable to this. So I would say all the science is garbage your interpretation is garbage

34:07

But yeah, let's affirm You're having some kind of mystical experience when you're meditating for three hours doing a pineal gland meditation on your floor with a crystal in Your forehead.

34:14

Yeah, you're encountering some kind of force. There's some kind of energy that's being transmitted there I'm willing to agree with that But if you're gonna make all these clams about claims about a gland you need scientific evidence for support to support that and I was

34:26

Just getting lax and loose You know when you hear the same jargon and rhetoric repeated over and over and over again people you think are authorities

34:35

You start to believe it even if it's not, you know Checking out from people who are actually experts in relevant fields of study.

34:42

Yeah, because I mean a lot of times I mean, I think people who are getting into this they're so excited that they're out there attaining the secret knowledge like oh my gosh

34:48

I have it like the idea of Cross -examining it is something that kind of gets thrown out the window

34:54

Because I mean a lot of like what you've mentioned. I don't know how much you know people who are into the new age who have these assumptions that they think to kind of do to trust and verify and Cross -examine that because like I said, it just seems that if you obtain the secret knowledge

35:09

It's almost sets the person up just to assume it and and take it as gospel Versus seeing if this is if they like these aspects of the pineal gland where the hidden crystals are in fact

35:19

In actuality, so I wanted this has been again. This is really really You really have the gears on my head turning

35:26

Steven. This has been fantastic So when you're talking about accessing the spirit realm, I want to kind of jump and transition into And I believe you talked about this in chapter one of your book again second coming of the new age

35:40

Go to new age cult comm you can pick up a copy both you and Josh talked about your experiences with both astral projection and lucid dreaming first and foremost

35:52

I think wasn't people it's important to know is that Even though a lot of what happens in the new ages is like like Steve was talking about is pseudo science

36:01

That it still is formulating these experiences and accessing the spirit realm. These experiences are real

36:07

But what's important distinguished just because something is real Doesn't mean it's good for you the different elements and components that created potassium cyanide that was mixed together that killed the 915 people down in Jonestown, Guyana that was real, but it wasn't a good thing so if we can it's important to kind of we're gonna jump into the the ideas of lucid dreaming astral projection, but From a we can also make sense of that from a biblical point of view

36:35

So the story in Samuel and you you know the story of this story Stephen of when

36:41

King Saul he wanted to Inquire of the Prophet Samuel who had who had passed and he went to the witch and he went to do this this

36:53

What my mind's running a blank? What what's what was the it was a seance, right? yeah, basically he went to a witch and he wanted to bring forth a

37:03

Well Samuel had passed and he asked this witch if he could bring if he could bring forth Samuel and so she called

37:09

Samuel forth and It was a on the one in the one time And this is the only time where it's recorded in the

37:15

Bible and God actually intervenes and Samuel actually comes back Which is not normal and the witch was shocked because she was expecting a familiar spirit to come in So I think in that story,

37:27

I didn't mean her out there but it's just it's important to see that what is happening is that you're kind of seeing dimensions kind of get opened up and crossed and So what's what's actually happening according to a biblical worldview and he is analyzing through the

37:41

Bibles These experiences are real but it's it's done by satanic power. So that's really important Did you want to elaborate on that Steven?

37:49

I mean to cut you off there. Yeah, it was interesting It's interesting to note that you know, Saul knew that he was gonna get something when he went there

37:55

He wasn't gonna get nothing and the woman believed that she could give him something and when she saw

38:00

Samuel come through she freaked out and she said behold. I see a God Coming out from the earth.

38:06

Yes. This was something that she was not expecting or used to You know, she would be used to some kind of demonic kind of Imitation spirit something imitating another spirit as Satan can masquerade himself as an angel of light, but when she got the real thing

38:20

The fact that it surprised her shows that you know, these mediums they aren't encountering the real thing

38:26

They're encountering something fake that people people people know they're encountering something Saul knew they're encountering something his worldview

38:33

Based on the the the the text of Scripture. It wasn't one that You know denied these things as being real these things were

38:41

Legitimate insofar as they were actually making contact. They were illegitimate in the sense that the source of information

38:49

Was a source that was, you know infallible or it was holy like you said just because something's

38:56

Possible doesn't mean we should be seeking it You know, it's possible that if I stick a fork into an electrical outlet

39:02

I'm getting gonna get shocked doesn't mean I should go do that You know Is there some kind of metaphysical relationship between the constellations and the stars and the positioning of the moon and the

39:13

Sun? Relative to my date of birth and my personality type is there? I don't know. That's not the right question to ask

39:20

That's a red herring the right question is if there is a relationship between constellations and stellar activity and human human behavior

39:29

Is this something God wants me to draw wisdom from or is that idolatry? Is that divination?

39:36

And obviously the answer to that question is it's a sin worthy of death Revelation 21 8 says those who practice magic arts will be cast into the lake of fire that by definition is a

39:46

Practice of magic arts diviners. No diviner will have an idolatry. No sorcerer will inherit the kingdom of God You know

39:52

Galatians 5 19 to 21. So the question isn't is it possible that the pineal gland could be a facilitator of some kind of spiritual access or that you know, there's a relationship between Astronomy and Human consciousness.

40:10

The question is what does God how does God want us to live our lives plain and simple? Yeah, and you know the

40:16

Bible clearly condemns these practices Absolutely has put the death penalty on these practices from day one

40:22

And you know, it's these these kinds of philosophies and practices are the reason really that you know

40:27

Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden in the first place It's what brought sin into the world to begin with Yeah, and this is a this is a perfect transition to kind of to go into the next clip

40:36

And so what I'm going to play is a clip from a like I mentioned the first episode that it's as fascinating as to see them at the

40:44

Majority of this content if you look up any newest thought and practice or ideology, it's all right now

40:50

It's like really young people from like age 20 to 30 That's just something I've noticed in my intellect in my research.

40:56

So I'm gonna play this clip of Young man talking about his experience with astral projection and you had talked about this in your video

41:06

But I do want to advise you real quickly If there are any moms listening if you have kids around this what this this clip

41:14

Does mention a couple things that are disturbing and graphics? So just be aware of that Like I said a coldest we wanted some of the things we deal with are sometimes difficult to deal with but it's important in light of what

41:27

Steven said about the seriousness of these issues and especially the serious of why God calls an abomination is

41:34

Important to understand in this light. So this gentleman is talking about His experience a little bit with astral projection, but he also talks about Basically and like I said just I want to give you more opportunity just to turn the radio to turn that your dial down if You have kids around but he talks about Even while you're going outside of your body on the s -realm going into lower planes and essentially getting the

41:59

Possibility of getting oppressed by demons in some case even rape or sexually assaulted So I'm gonna go and play this clip

42:05

Steven Then we can go ahead and give your analysis of it and also talk about your experience with Both yourself and Josh's experience.

42:13

So here we go. I Would like to stress the fact that your body is multi -dimensional.

42:18

So think of it as a Photoshop project There are many layers to that body So you have your physical body that you inhabit in form on earth and then you have your astral body

42:27

Which actually is a tangential self made of starlight that lives in your body and you actually transition into that Perspective when you sleep for the sake of ease

42:35

I'm not gonna go into all the layers of the body because there are many that correspond to the different dimensions within ourselves

42:41

Just know the sleep paralysis state occurs when the astral body Awakens within a physically sleeping body.

42:48

So that hybridized state we would call the lower astral realm Which is only accessed by this sort of bastardized state of consciousness

42:54

That is not supposed to take place lower astral rape is just as real as in just as painful just as demoralizing

43:01

Just as destructive and terrifying as a physical assault that can happen to us in form and I say this with complete 100 % sincerity

43:09

Encounters with demons or low vibratory entities always takes place in the lower astral realm

43:16

Which is not to be confused with the astral realm The astral realm is a magnificent place where human beings visit to have metaphorical experiences that harken to their earth experience in the astral realm you are given insights into how to approach a

43:29

Circumstance a certain way it is always beneficial always loving always guided by your highest truth

43:35

The lower astral realm is everything about that. It is complete rape of that experience How is this realm access?

43:40

Why do people have sleep paralysis? Why does such a large percentage of the population see this man break through their window and sit on their chest this charred?

43:49

Leprechaun like man, why is that something that so many people see why is that a collective vision? How is that even possible?

43:58

Okay, so I want to say this real quickly Is that for the audience who if you guys are new to this stuff mean that may have been disturbing to many of you but it's important to know that this is

44:09

Prominent in the culture. There's an explosion of this idea of astral projection these like these ideologies and if you heard him

44:17

He's being sincere and I believe him Then the question is what what is that?

44:23

He's experiencing and is it good and how do we address it? From a biblical point of view given the foundations that he's already laid down.

44:31

So Stephen I'm gonna hand it back to you If you want to just break down some of what he was talking about But also if you want to also transition because you you did similar things when you were in the

44:43

New Age and you talked about this In your book go ahead and then elaborate on what he said and also elaborate on your experience if you can

44:51

Yeah, when I when I came out of the New Age movement, I spent a lot of time researching astral projection

44:57

Because that was something I thought Validated my worldview. I thought that was the universe giving me, you know

45:03

Special insight a secret insight into the nature of the spirit world as a reward for me serving humanity

45:10

By waking people up to a higher state of consciousness and helping them realize they're more than their body

45:15

And you know, they're they're true forgotten mission that they incarnated here to fulfill. I thought this was the universe kind of bestowing favor on me for giving me special access into the spirit world and This happened

45:30

My first out -of -body experience happened when I was in a lucid dream Which is a dream you have where you're conscious that you're dreaming and I got pulled out of my car

45:40

Within my lucid dream and I'm hovering above my car and above the housetops in my neighborhood within my lucid dream

45:46

I'm fully aware that I'm dreaming very very vivid state of consciousness and about 20 feet in front of me appears this red skinned being with black markings on his face wearing a

45:57

Red cloak and he did look look reptilian in terms of his jaw structure It looked lizard -like and he had this like sinister grin on his face.

46:05

It was this guy. Remember it dude it was disgusting and he had had a third eye that was in between his two regular eyes and It's crazy and his third eye opened at me and when his third eye opened at me

46:19

I have a visual image of this guy burned into my mind. It kind of fuels my My passion for ministry, you know,

46:25

I'm a movie nerd here So I always have this like Google search in the back of my head That's always like comparing things to like movie scenes or movie quotes so the very first thing

46:33

I think of when you're mentioning that obviously is Lord of the Rings and The eye of Mordor especially in Return of the

46:41

King There's those moments where I think they have the one crystal ball Which you can look directly into the eye and all of a sudden you see it up close and just like staring into the face

46:48

Was it kind of like this doesn't mean obviously you're familiar with going to the New Age and opening your third eye

46:54

But in that moment was it like seeing the third eye almost in a different and like evil light.

47:00

We're like wow This is something I don't have control over. This is something I was not like what is this is a different Side of the equation or edge of the looking -glass that wasn't expecting right?

47:10

No, I I was kind of expecting this So during this time, I well, I had never seen Lord of the Rings I didn't have a frame of reference creature.

47:19

I Wasn't into the Star Wars series either. Someone asked me. It looked like Darth Maul. Is that even his name?

47:25

Yes. Yes. Good job. Yeah, and I was like no, I'd never seen that so I don't know

47:32

But anyway, it didn't really catch me off guard in the moment. I took it because I knew in the astral realm

47:38

There's what's called negative astral entities or trickster entities And or astral parasites, it's known within the

47:45

New Age movement that when you're in the astral realm There's certain creatures that are there who are you know Not as desirable to be in contact with and I was actually reading a book

47:53

Teaching you how to astral project and it was so interesting as I'm reading the book each night before bed

48:00

I'd read it before bed because I was just crazy I would I would reach a certain point in my research where something would change in the spirit and I knew

48:09

I needed to close the book and put it away like that's enough and I would try and put into practice the things

48:15

I was reading in the book and something would change and I would have fear I would actually sleep with the

48:20

Bible under my pillow because I knew that night something was gonna happen Something and it would it either be a false awakening and out -of -body experience a lucid dream something weird

48:29

That was spiritual what happened and it dawned whenever I was studying this book, but I didn't think that it was necessarily demonic

48:36

I thought it could be a bunch of different things and so anyway, I got it opened its third eye at me and I got pulled into its third eye and Experienced three seconds of darkness then

48:45

I opened my eyes and I was hovering four feet in the air over my my Over my bed actually in the room beside me

48:53

Where my old bedroom used to be hovering four feet in the air and I sat up in the air and looked around in My room everything's laid out the exact same because I believe that I'm actually

48:59

I believe after projection You're actually going into some kind of spiritual realm that is parallel to our realm and So I'm seeing that my room is being lit up by my astral body and I'm trying to fight now

49:11

To get back down into my bed because I'm so scared I want to get back into my flesh and I see my physical leg and I see my

49:17

Astral leg bouncing in and out of my physical leg I see them interacting with one another and I'm fighting to get back into my body and I can't get back in and Finally after maybe

49:25

I don't know two minutes of fighting I got back in and then I felt a buzzing sound and heard a buzzing sound

49:33

In the middle of my forehead which in the new age movement is an indicator that you're about to have an OBE and I knew

49:38

Okay, great. I'm getting which is out -of -body experience an out -of -body experience. Yeah, and I was paralyzed I had sleep paralysis and I knew

49:45

I'm getting pulled out again and this entity You know pulled me out a second time and then

49:50

I fought again to try and get back into my body and I'm trying To pinch myself trying to pinch my leg to try and wake myself up and I can't and so Finally after being pulled out a second time by this entity

50:01

I get back into my flesh and I settle back into my flesh for real and Observing how it felt to have my consciousness back intact with my body was the most interesting feelings

50:13

I just experienced the opposite and I sat up and I was like, oh my gosh. I was just outside of my body

50:18

That's crazy. I ran upstairs. I told my parents I was just out of my body I was floating in the air in my bedroom and I went to university that that that morning

50:28

Texted my girlfriend at the time. I was like, oh my gosh. I was just out of my body. She's like cool Steve That's interesting. She didn't care and so at the at school ancient

50:37

Greek and Roman philosophy class we were talking about whether or not the soul existed and I was sitting there so self -satisfied and so pompous that I had just cracked 3 ,000 years worth of debate

50:47

I knew the soul existed. I just experienced everyone in here, you know, they're spiritual infants

50:53

They don't have the access the wisdom the insight that I do the abilities that I do and It was very very

51:01

You know, it promoted pride spiritual superiority and stuff like that But basically so when

51:07

I got saved I obviously realized that was a demon who pulled me out of my body I got angry. I had to do I renounced him.

51:12

I rebuked him. I you know severed any ties I'd made to him You know while I was in the new age movement

51:17

And he still angers me just talking about him because I saw him he's burnt into my mind for the rest of my life Yeah, and so anyway long story short

51:25

I was like, I need to research astral projection now and and I'm what you know Scores of hours of research into a video that I have on my channel if you just search

51:34

Stephen bankers astral projection There's a great video definitely check it out if you guys want to learn more about it, but go ahead

51:40

Yeah, yeah It's it's half an hour long and it's you know Has a hundred and fifty thousand views and by God's grace a lot of people are seeing a lot of new ages are seeing it

51:48

But what I learned in my research is a few different things when you look at my testimony and other people's testimonies

51:56

And you gather and deduce a line of reasoning based on actual experience and not just theory

52:02

So what this guy's saying in the clip, it's a lot of theory. Oh, you know if you have a bad experience That's some lower vibratory realm.

52:08

That's not the astral realm. That's some lower realm Except for the fact that when you read people's testimonies who've had bad experience

52:15

They tell you specific that they'll say I was in the astral realm like before and then this and this happened

52:20

Nobody ever indicates they woke up in some completely different realm It's all the same realm.

52:26

And so here are five things actually six six things I want to read off here that my research from you know

52:33

I don't know 60 hours into researching astral projection and experiencing it firsthand Demonstrated to me.

52:39

The first is that fear is not a necessary prerequisite for a bad astral experience You can have terrifying experiences, even if you're expecting love and positivity in the astral realm

52:50

So you don't create these experiences for yourself with your dominant thoughts with your dominant emotions contrary to what people teach you the new age

52:56

Movement. The second is that these astral entities will disguise themselves to hide their true form. We obviously believe they're demons

53:02

We can't trust any of the beings we encounter. There's trickster entities We have no way of ascertaining whether or not this being we're seeing is in their shape -shifted form or not.

53:12

Hmm The third point would be these demons can and will manipulate and manipulate you into having sex with them by changing their form

53:20

They don't just shape -shift. These beings aren't just unreliable Their desire is to make contact with you and mess with you and to abuse you

53:28

I would consider what I had being pulled out two times against my will spiritual abuse I would consider that spiritual abuse a lot of times people are raped

53:35

Tormented for hours just like I was talking about in the audio Yeah, exactly and in ways that are

53:41

I don't even want to describe right I do read it out loud in the video Where it's just it's sodomy.

53:47

It's the worst you can imagine Yeah a fourth one would be you aren't in control you can be paralyzed and tormented against your will even if you don't want to be your

53:54

Desires your intentions don't have any impact on the behavior of these entities Another one would be which is contrary to people like koi fresco and contrary to people, you know

54:05

Like spirit science who teach this stuff Demons will attach themselves to you and can enter into you while you are outside of your body

54:12

This phenomenon is known as astral parasites. People will leave their body. They'll come back in and they'll they'll still notice

54:17

I'm not alone in my body anymore. I just entered back into my body after an OBE out -of -body experience and I'm not alone in my

54:23

Own body. There's something else here and I can't shake it I can't get rid of it and they'll go to shamans and try and get cleansing rituals and they'll burn sage over them and do

54:30

Who knows what they can't get they can't get free This fascinates me so in a situation like that they they're in the asterome they come back into the regular body

54:42

Like what would be a common like, you know? Verified for multiple people like how what would be a common trait in which like how they sensed this?

54:53

Host or entity being attached to them That's interesting Basically, well the presence the threat the presence of something else

55:04

When I was in the New Age movement, I got used to sensing the presence You can actually sense the presence of something else Like when you're in church, you can sense the presence of the

55:11

Lord when you're involved with demons You can sense the presence of a foreign External entity that is somehow now into in relationship with you oppressing you

55:20

There's there's physical symptoms usually associated with this things like headaches things like panic attacks

55:26

And but what's really interesting is that another point that was very very clear from my research

55:32

Which is mainstream knowledge and even secular Ufology is that astral attacks are interrupted when people call out to the name of Jesus so people are in these experiences where they see other entities in the astral plane and when they call on the name of Jesus the

55:47

Experience stops and it actually stops from stops repeating It's the only thing found in UFO research to stop alien abduction reports or cases from reoccurring and from happening

55:58

So that obviously reveals a lot about the nature of these entities obviously and the nature of the

56:03

Lord himself The astral projection very very prominent practice in the New Age movement

56:09

It's disguised as being this floaty fun spiritual realm and people will base Entire theories of the afterlife on this idea that you know

56:17

Just like when you have an out -of -body experience You just get to float around in the astral plane until you decide to go to your next place

56:22

You can decide to go back to the spirit world to reincarnate. It's up to you And there's entire eschatologies built around, you know

56:30

OBEs that people are having and obviously it's a demonic deception and Yeah, it's a very very prominent

56:37

Practice in the New Age movement. My co -author just had dozens of experiences like these and it was when he started

56:43

Disobeying these entities in his astral projection experiences that they started tampering with things in the natural

56:49

His trailer was like a haunted house and things would be slamming and falling off shelves and breaking everywhere

56:54

Because he disobeyed these astral entities and that's when he phoned someone who helped him out and he said these are demons You need to give your life to the

57:01

Lord and repent of being involved in the New Age You need to say these prayers over your house and close any of these doorways that you're opening up He did that he got saved and he had never had an experience like that ever again

57:12

Yeah, and one thing I just want to comment as well, too Like that good that young man that video he was talking about, you know his experience

57:20

But again, he was saying he almost was viewing it through his worldview Like he's the creator of his own reality and everything in a sense was like a subjective experience.

57:28

So these just lower Vibrations, but again a vibration at least in the New Age view isn't it's always something that's like observable or repeatable

57:35

But in contrast to the Christian worldview and and again if you guys follow our content apology studios We talk a lot about the law of God and it's true

57:43

They're like God's law of state God's standard for for testing What is true is two to three independent lines of testimony and just just so you mentioned

57:52

Steven that you know you have these people who are multiple accounts and I've read them both with yourself both the

57:58

Josh Peck who co -authored this book multiple other people who are in these Experiences and they they call on the name of Jesus and and they and they go away from that You know nothing to in fact

58:08

I just had a recent experience to where I had a couple from our church that came up to me and They asked me to pray for them because they said they were just they feel like there are these dark manifestations in their house and I said, okay well we need to come to the house sometime and anoint your house with oil and pray over it and and I kind of left it at that and just so happens

58:29

I had just watched your video on occultic artifacts and objects and the dangers of that and So I went to their house and the very first thing

58:40

I saw on their Refrigerator was a dreamcatcher like hanging off the refrigerator and immediately

58:46

I just had this like knots in my stomach and I I didn't really know Like I did

58:53

I didn't really see anything at time But I knew like this is something I need to look into and talk about so I posted on your

58:58

Facebook page reasons for Jesus What's up with the dreamcatchers? It is an item you should have in your house because I was thinking about that video and I had multiple

59:06

Independent lines of testimony people were talking about the whole idea is something that's based in their

59:12

Native American ideology to alter the dream world and And also interact with the spirit realm.

59:17

So it's a dangerous occultic object that God would call an abomination and He had multiple people saying you need to get rid of this

59:24

So in fact, I just talked to her today She went ahead and just threw those things out And so we're definitely gonna go ahead and I go to her house and I can pray over for God to protect that So that's one example of that So Steven, this has been fantastic again, if you guys want to get

59:40

His book and again, he elaborates a lot more into this again second coming of the New Age.

59:45

Go to newagecult .com It'll send you to where you can get it on Amazon Stephen I want to wrap things up here because you talked briefly about your testimony

59:56

And it's it's important I believe it's chapter 11 where you talk about reaching people who are in the

01:00:03

New Age Yeah ministering to the people in the New Age movement, so perhaps if you could just mix in you know a little bit more of like your testimony and Let's just say that young man who is experiencing that You know and those horrific experiences like say you're coming across in the table.

01:00:22

Could you? Elaborate like on that chapter and like how how would you talk to like a young man like that or or anyone else?

01:00:30

Who's in that experience like and they're going through these things? What would be the best way to approach them because like I just want to also say quickly is that sometimes you know you

01:00:39

Hear about all these like dangers of the occult and you think about and you put on the arm of God It's gonna be like a fight, you know

01:00:45

But we're supposed to have our speech be seasoned with salt and you want to you also give an answer

01:00:51

But with meekness compassion and humility So again say you're across the table from that young man like how how would you talk to someone like that laboring on chapter 11?

01:01:01

I think that When it comes to talking with a new ager, it's not really that much different From talking with any other person who's unsaved because you're really dealing with the same problem

01:01:13

There's just different ways in which people suppress the truth and unrighteousness That's really all I see is just a suppression of the truth

01:01:19

And I know I know that and I know that God knows that and so I kind of have Inside information on their psychological state that I'm bringing to the table before I even say anything to them

01:01:30

I know where they're at Yeah And they're cut in their conscience resisting the law of God hostile to God in mind

01:01:36

And that is the most powerful thing if you can have that in your tool belt Don't let them convince you that they don't know there's something different about Jesus and about the

01:01:44

God of Scripture That's where Christians really make a mistake because then they fall into oh, well, you know

01:01:50

This is just my faith and these are just my my positions and you know, what's true? What's you end up we end up talking like Pontius Pilate What is truth versus the claims of Jesus which we are followers of right?

01:02:02

I want to speak to the part in them that knows on some level that what

01:02:07

I'm saying reflects the one who made them I want to appeal to that part of them the part of them that is buried beneath suppression in conscience buried beneath demonic oppression

01:02:17

And so the way you want to do that is by first of all, I like asking people questions I like saying what if it were the case that or could it be possible that or what do you think about this?

01:02:28

What do you think about the idea that you know? It says in Ephesians 6 that you know, our battle isn't against flesh and blood

01:02:33

But against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places, you know The Bible says in Ephesians 2 to that Satan has an air kingdom.

01:02:41

He's the prince of the power of the air So the spirit realm is filled with demonic beings

01:02:47

What are your thoughts on on the idea that maybe what you're encountering could be one of those? Because then you're caught you're causing them to come to their own to come to conclusions on their own

01:02:56

It's kind of like what Socrates would do in ancient Greece. It's very very Very very reliable.

01:03:03

Jesus did a lot as well as a method of evangelism. Yeah, you know So basically what you want to do if you're a

01:03:11

Christian Stay within your wheelhouse, which is the person and ministry of Jesus Christ And if you can bring things ultimately back to that place everything else is kind of a red herring in the mind of an unbeliever

01:03:23

Yeah, I want I want to offer some biblical framework for what they're experiencing let them know Hey, you know, we can deal with that as a

01:03:30

Christian. We do have educated response We even have resources we can put into your hands as Christians pertaining to these things

01:03:35

But let's bring it back down to let's get them to really wrestle out those things that they're suppressing in their conscience

01:03:42

That's where the rubber meets the road when you start forcing them to have an intellectually Self -honest answer about who

01:03:48

Jesus is and what he said and if you can just keep the conversation there and gently direct it there

01:03:53

You know, who do you think Jesus is right? That's that's one of the most powerful questions in all of Scripture Jesus says who are who do men say

01:04:00

I am there's some say you're this some say that but who do you say I am? That's it. That's the question. So who do we say

01:04:06

Jesus is? You know, what? What do you make of the the statement Jesus says, you know in John 14 6 when he says?

01:04:11

Nobody comes to the father except through me and he says no unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins

01:04:17

Like how do you understand the ministry in the person of Jesus where he says? He's the only path to God in the context of having faith in him

01:04:25

Yeah You know How do you make sense of that as a new ager and and basically you'll see them tweak out because they're having an internal battle where they're not able to resolve their desire to be

01:04:35

Lord of their life with the clear revelation of Scripture and So that's that's that's where you want to stay that's the every

01:04:41

Christian's wheelhouse should be that and in the chapter We have a chapter in this book as well It's all on Jesus.

01:04:46

It's a 20 ,000 plus for a chapter just on Jesus going through What the new age movement has to say about him in terms of Christ consciousness in terms of Helena Blavatsky's Theosophical Society Jesus being an ascended master and about the two most prominent proof text that people use to justify a mystical

01:05:03

Interpretation of Jesus Christ, which is is it not written in your law that you are you are gods? Coming from Psalm 82 6 we posture present two different explanations for that Scripture in the book.

01:05:16

I take the the view that these are referring to human Judges that were mentioned in Exodus They were called

01:05:22

Elohim because they had a quasi divine role of being God's moral representatives in Israel But another one would be, you know, is it not?

01:05:31

Wait, the kingdom of God is within you, right? Yes. Yes Don't say lo here or lo there for behold the kingdom of God is within you in the

01:05:38

ESV. It'll say in your midst It's not even there the majority of Bible translations. They say in your midst, but basically we go through apologetic responses to these objections

01:05:46

If you can have those pocketed, I really do recommend reading that chapter if you can have those pocketed Those are the most prominent objections that Jesus was a teacher of Christ consciousness trying to teach us that we're all divine

01:05:56

You know know the proof text when the Bible says put fear in them Let the nations know they are but men

01:06:02

Okay, here's a question brother. What like if you say that, you know, the Bible teaches that man's divine

01:06:09

Why is the Bible say that the Egyptians are men and not God and their horses are flesh and not spirit, right?

01:06:14

You know, what do you do with that text? What do you do with the text where you know in Isaiah 14 or Ezekiel 28?

01:06:20

I want to say acts 12 with King Herod where when people tried to claim deity for themselves and say

01:06:25

I am God God killed them like or even like a question I would ask too is that if you would say for example

01:06:32

There's some people to argue that the Bible is actually just a an astrological text It has hidden meaning to it and it's kind of part of this whole realm of like secret knowledge

01:06:40

Well, if that's the case, why is it in the historically documented? Book of Acts accounted for by Luke.

01:06:48

Why is it when the when people become Christians? They they grab all their occultic books and all their their ancient wisdom and knowledge and such and they and they basically they made

01:06:57

Bonfires out of them. Like why is that the case if everything is together? How is that? How does that correspond to your view?

01:07:04

What do you think of that? And I yeah, that's a it's the same thing with even talking with the cultists and uh You know

01:07:09

I'll wrap up on this is that you know The whole idea is that you want to and you may get a point Steve and you want to be able to ask

01:07:16

Questions and hopefully plant seeds of doubt or get something to I get them to think and trust that The Holy Spirit will will hopefully work them and grant them repentance and and they would come to know the true living

01:07:28

God So again, I want to again. Thank you so much for taking your time to come on here

01:07:34

I'm sure everyone who's going to watch this on YouTube is going to love it as well I know any of you also if you just listen to it here in the podcast

01:07:42

Go ahead and like I said, if I if you enjoyed this episode if you have questions send us messages leave us a review on iTunes or Leave us a

01:07:50

YouTube comment every now and then in between all the crazy comments. We get a good one So we might have to look for those

01:07:56

Steven did you have any last things you want to just Say before we wrap up here

01:08:04

I would say I Would encourage people who are listening if they're if they're unsaved to read the

01:08:12

Gospels To read the Gospel of John and to genuinely and sincerely ask Jesus Jesus if you're real if you are who you claim to be in the

01:08:20

New Testament I want to know you if you can bring yourself to that place where you can humbly and sincerely ask

01:08:25

God God I want you in your fullness if that means I'm wrong. I don't care. I want you I want the truth above everything else

01:08:32

The Bible says whoever seeks shall find whoever knocks the door shall be open to him Jesus says I will by no means turn away those who come to me

01:08:40

Jesus is Jesus promise is to reveal himself to you to draw him to himself and to reveal himself to you

01:08:47

When you are genuinely and sincerely seeking him So I would encourage people to be honest with the text to be honest with the

01:08:53

New Testament When I was in the New Age movement, I was a teacher. I was writing articles about Jesus I didn't read the

01:08:59

Gospels a single time because I knew what was in the Gospels would confront the skeletons

01:09:05

I was bearing in my conscience. Mm -hmm, but when we run away from God, we're running away from our Savior We're running away from our healer.

01:09:12

He's gentle with us. He doesn't want to hold our trespasses against us He wants to bestow mercy and grace upon us for his name's sakes

01:09:19

I would encourage people to honestly sit down with the Gospels and Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you because this promises that he will

01:09:29

Absolutely. So well, thank you so much for sharing that brother and thank you for coming on again And hopefully sometime in the future.

01:09:34

We'll have you on again Awesome. Awesome. So I again thank you guys for listening as always

01:09:40

I'm gonna just wrap up with one last clip here as we mentioned in at least in the first episode

01:09:45

We played a couple of clips of Walter Martin and Stephen gave some great commentary expanding on that we're gonna actually

01:09:53

End with a clip by dr. Walter Martin explaining the importance of The gospel and light of the

01:09:58

New Age and the and why that's relevant And so I'm gonna go and wrap things up here and we will got to talk to you guys next time on cultish