Tennessee Representative Mark Pody Challenges Gay Marriage

Can we just say a quick prayer before we start? Holy Father, Lord, we just want to lift up this interview to you right now, Lord. Let every word we say bring glory to you. Father, give us the exact words to say that you put a guard at our lips, that we don't say anything that is prideful.

Father, that we just lift you up in Jesus' name, that you give us the wisdom and make this flow, that we'll get the people's hearts ready to receive, to receive the message that you want brought. Father, it's not about us.

It's not about anything but you. In Jesus' name. Amen.

All right. Thank you all.

Absolutely. Thank you. All right. We are at the Tennessee State Capitol with Representative Mark Hody. And Mark, thank you for joining us today.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Absolutely. We are thrilled to be sitting here with you right now in this really fantastic place. You introduced a bill, HB 1412.

Yes, sir.

What's wrong with you? What is it and why would you do something like that?

The Biblical and Constitutional Basis for the Marriage Bill

All right. I believe, first off, as a born-again Christian, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. And so when I pick up the Bible, I pick up the whole Bible. I can't just cut and piece what I like, what I don't like, and say this isn't relative today.

And I believe that when I read my Bible and I pray, that I pray to a living God. And God talks to me through His Word. I communicate with God. He listens to what I have to say as I make petitions to prayer and such.

And after the ruling came out that the Supreme Court ruled, and it said that marriage is okay between a man and a man or a woman and a woman or anything, that it was going to be something that the state of Tennessee had to accept.

So in my study, I believe the Lord shared with me Ezekiel 317. And Ezekiel 317, that's this passage where it talks about a watchman on the wall. And as much as I can tell you, I believe I heard from the Lord saying, Mark, that's you right there.

You are now the watchman on the wall. And I believe as I read the passage then, it says that I am supposed to cry out when I see something not going right. I've got to cry out. And it says if I cry out to the people doing it and they keep doing it, they're going to die and they're going to die in their iniquity.

But if I didn't cry out, warn them that that iniquity would be on me. And the righteous people, I got to cry out and say, don't let this go on in the land. And if they continue to let it go on, even after the morning, then my hands are clean.

And so the best, the strongest way that I could come up with, the absolute strongest language that I could come up with saying I am not going to allow that in Tennessee, is through this bill to tell the Supreme Court, no, I want to stand strong against the Supreme Court and say here in Tennessee, not only don't I think it's right under my Christian beliefs, but we voted constitutionally, saying with over 80 of our people, just 10 years ago, as citizens of Tennessee said, we are not going to allow marriage between anything else except a man and a woman.

And it said that if there's a judicial interpretation, we wrote this directly in the Constitution. We wrote it in there because we anticipated the Supreme Court ruling against us. And we wrote it in there saying if they do, we're still going to hold that void and unenforceable in Tennessee.

So the language that I'm trying to put in this bill is to do nothing more than what 80 of the citizens of Tennessee have held and said, that's what's going to happen. I'm doing my best to say that as loud and as strong as I can.

Separation of Church and State, the Supreme Court, and the Mountain to Move

It's really, it's a fantastic example of lawful behavior. So first and foremost, the word of God defines for us what is true, what is beautiful, what is lovely, what is moral. God has given to us the institution of marriage.

It's from him. And so first and foremost, the law of God. Second of all, you're upholding the actual law of your state. 80 of the citizens voting that marriage is between a man and a woman. And even putting into that, that even if there is some judicial tyranny, the state's constitution will be upheld.

And so why in the world is this controversial?

Well, there's several reasons. Some people don't believe that religion, there's a, it says separation between church and state. And I'm going to tell you, I don't believe that at all. My religion goes right with me wherever I am.

That means if I'm in business, that religion, my religion stays with me. If I'm in politics, it stays with me. If in my private life, my marriage, my kids, that if I'm a Christian, if I believe in my Lord Jesus Christ, it stays with me in all areas of my life.

I don't say, well, God, you're invited to me here, here, here, but maybe not in that part of my life. And that's not what I believe. But there are others that believe that. And then there's another force that says, you know what?

The Supreme Court spoke. And to me, the Supreme Court is not the supreme being. The supreme being is God. And what we get, who we are, is from God, not from government and not from people that are not elected in black robes.

We have a system here that we were founded, what I believe is on Christian values. And I want to stand up for those. I don't want to make apologies at all for that. Where others might feel that there's better way, they might let's go back to a different way to go around this mountain.

I want to challenge the mountain. And God says that, you know what? If I have the faith of a mustard seed, okay, that that mountain be gone. And that's what I'm standing on. I believe that. I believe my God is big enough to remove this mountain.

Let me ask you this, Mark. Why is this at all controversial? Because it seems to me that in this case, you are being the lawful lesser magistrate. You are being the lawful American citizen. You're being a lawful citizen of the state of Tennessee, standing between judicial tyranny and the people of Tennessee.

When the people of Tennessee vote, I think consistently with God's word and his principles. And they say, this is our law. This is our law. And the Supreme Court says, no, we're going to redefine that.

And you stand in the way, in the gap, and you say, no, we need to protect not only the citizen's decision, but also the moral stature of our state. Why is this something that, because the bill that didn't, the bill died.

It needs to be resurrected. Is that what? No, no, no, no, no. Bill's not died. The bill is not died. What's happened is it's stalled right now in a subcommittee. Okay. That means that that subcommittee said that they're not going to let it out of that committee.

I don't have the votes to let it out of the committee. So there's only two ways for me to get it to move forward. One is for one of those committee members that voted not to bring it forward to just say, you know what, I want to reconsider that bill and rehab it heard.

And they can do that, you know, and they can. So in one week, it can be back on notice. I just so. And then the second way, if 66 members, House members here will allow me to resurrect it and have it heard directly on the floor where I can say, you know, I want to bypass all these committees and let's just get it on the floor where we can talk about it, where everybody would have a say on this bill.

And that way, all the legislators would be able to listen, debate and talk about the ballot, the merits of this bill.

Fiscal Note, Federal Pressure, and Why He Says He Must Act

Can you explain to me why this would have had any problem? Why did I have any problem. Just moving right to the front and saying, well, of course, the citizens of the state of Tennessee, sovereign state of Tennessee have decided.

And of course, why would this stall?

All right. There is something called a fiscal note. OK. All right. And in Tennessee, we have to when we pass a bill, we've got to make sure that we can pay for the bill. And in this case, what they said is there is an eight point five billion dollar fiscal note.

So approximately one third of our entire budget, 25 percent of our entire budget would be going to this bill. And the reason they had that analysis is this. They said, well, the federal government might withhold funds from Tennessee because we're going against the federal government.

And that is a huge, huge fiscal note. Now, I will tell you that I think that there is enough case law saying that if we've got a valid law within Tennessee, that the federal governments can't cannot withhold money.

The second thing is I watch over 300 sanctuary cities that have violated federal law and no federal funds are withheld with them. I also watch states like Colorado that say that smoking marijuana, you know, is absolutely legal and it's against federal law and they don't have federal funds withheld.

So it's not unprecedented that states will do something and the federal government does not withhold these funds. And so they're kind of looking at Tennessee as we're going against the federal government.

Therefore, we're going to lose that money. Why are you doing this? I'm going to tell you my my absolute goal is I believe that I have been called to do it at this point in time. You know, I'm willing to say that if I don't do what I believe that I've heard from God, then they need to have somebody else in my seat to do it.

If I don't, I'm not here just to go to people in my district or Tennessee. When I die, I'm going to go and I believe I'm going to answer to my Lord and I'm going to say, you know, here's here's what my life is.

And he's going to look at it and he's going to say, well done, good and faithful servant, or he's going to say no. And I live for those words. Well done, good and faithful servant. So what I do, my life has to be a Christian life for God and doesn't have to be a life that men or women or the world is going to accept.

Either I'm going to have my life judged by God or I'm going to have my life judged by the world.

And I choose God. You sound like a Christian.

I hope not only do I sound like a Christian, I will be I want to be almost a zealot.

Public and Private Faith, Citizenship, and the Supreme Court Is Not the Supreme Being

But here's here's why I say that, because we live in a time where people like to create a dichotomy, you know, between your public life and your private life as a Christian, particularly in the area of politics.

And they say, well, that's political. This is that's the area of the church. This is politics and government, government, government. This is the area that the realm of the church. But that is not a dichotomy that Jesus taught.

And it's not a dichotomy that I think is consistent. And you do see politicians and people in government that try to divide these political issues from moral issues. But it is ultimately a moral issue and I think ultimately, therefore, a gospel issue.

However, you seem to be acting consistently not only with Scripture, but also and I got to highlight this. You're acting consistently with the laws of the state of Tennessee.

Absolutely. And, you know, if we take out a quarter or 50 cent piece, whatever, you know, on any coin that we have on one side, it says in God we trust our own our own dollar, everything it says in God we trust.

So I'm standing on that. But if people say, you know what, we're not even looking at it that way, and they flip the coin over and you have everything that represents the Constitution and who we are on the other side of the coin.

This ruling that they did went against everything we were looking at there as well. We the people. That's exactly right. They don't have the rights. They don't have the. I don't think that the Supreme Court had the right to even rule on what we did.

Can courts make laws? Courts cannot make laws. So therefore, if if a court can rule on a portion of a law. All right. The Supreme Court is only allowed to rule on what is given to the federal government.

And marriage was never given to the federal government. In fact, it clearly says in our amendments, it says anything that is not clearly given to the federal government retains with the state or the people.

And therefore, if it's not given to the federal government, how can the federal government or how can the Supreme Court even rule on this? It's not within their jurisdiction. They don't have standing on.

Now, if we just allow it, if we just allow it, the federal government is going to continue to grow every single branch of the government. Sooner or later, somebody somewhere has to stop and say no. And that's what we're doing.

So we're saying no. Now, I'm going to say no for me because it's a biblical principle. But I also I'm going to say no because it's a constitutional issue. So I think that if we forget the money, all right, we don't stand up to the extortion.

And I don't know. I shouldn't say it that way, but I don't have a better word. OK. Right. We're being extorted. We have to do this or they're going to withhold this money. OK. If you look at the other way, they're bribing us.

I don't I don't either way. It's not good. Right. But we have to stand up for what we believe in and stand up strong and say no. You know, and somebody said, well, what's the next thing? If you say no, there is no let your no be no.

And God says, let your yes be yes. Let your no be no. But we are saying, no, we're not going to allow it. We're going to stop right here and say in Tennessee, marriage is between a man and a woman. Now, if they go to another state, another area, I'm not fighting that.

But I am saying here in Tennessee, that is what God has given me dominion over right here. He said, you are a state representative in here. I have not been elected. I've been here because God's allowed me to be here.

You know, I think that God is the one that institutes leaders. And I give all the credit, the glory, not because of something fancy that I did, but only because God's allowed it. Well, as I'm here, I'd better stand up for what God wants me to do.

I like you a lot.

Well, I appreciate that. I like all my Christian brothers and sisters. You know, and I know that you and I are the same spirit.

That's right. That's right. Well, let me ask you, what sort of things have you had to face in terms of backlash, criticism because you stand for not only the scriptures, but also be the state's constitution in Tennessee?

What have you had to face?

Miracles, Backlash, and God-Ordained Encounters

And you know what? I'm not going to look at any minor things that have affected me that way. And I might have a challenge here or there, but my goal is to focus on what God's done in blessing. And anything that I've had to face, God's been with me and he's going to see me through it.

And I'm just going to count that for the glory of God.

Sure.

But I can tell you miracles that have happened. Let me tell you some of those things that are happening since I have had this bill. Okay. You know, because when I'm saying, okay, God, you know, you told me to do this.

All right.

And I'm trying my best to do it. And he says, okay, that's my focus. There have been times that I turn around and say, this has to be God. I met a gentleman and he and his wife were over in another state and they traveled to Tennessee.

And he comes into my office. I don't know him from anybody.

Okay.

And he says, I think I'm supposed to be here to help you on this bill. And I said, all right. And he said, well, let me introduce myself. And he tells me who he is. And he says, you know, I got a criminal record.

And I said, okay. And he says, I've actually been arrested. And I said, tell me more. And he said, I was a policeman. And he said, I went to stand up or I was actually sent to break up a protest. And he said, instead of breaking up the protest, I actually went and started protesting with them.

And it happened to be an abortion clinic.

Okay.

And I thought, wow. And he said, so my supervisor comes down and he says, you know, you've got to get out of here. You're going to be in trouble. And he said, I can't leave. I've got to stay. There's murders going on.

And he said, I've got to protect life. And his supervisor says, well, if you don't leave, you could lose your job. You could lose your pension. You could be arrested. And the guy says, I am going to stand for what I believe in.

And so he does. He gets arrested. You know, he's off the force. And it's that kind of person that God sends to me.

And I said, so where are you staying?

And he tells me, well, I'm staying at a little campground. And it turns out to be about 500 yards from where I live, my house. And I said, so God sends you thousands of miles. You don't know who I am or wherever.

And you end up there just a few hundred yards from where I live. I think, what a miracle that is. I went to another church. And I'm a Gideon. So I just try and spread God's word wherever I can. But I go into a church, and I walk in the back.

And it was right before service was going to be starting.

And the guy calls me.

He says, Representative Potey, come down here to the front. And I walk down. He says, we were just talking about you. We were just in the back room talking about you and your bill, about standing up for marriage and what a church should do.

And he says, I want to introduce you to my pastor. And so he introduces me to the pastor. And the pastor tells me, hey, what is it that led you to do this? I'm told about Ezekiel 317.

He said, I'm preaching on Ezekiel right now.

He said, well, you start the service. And it's like, okay, so God just orchestrates things so many times. And there's so many miracles that are going on, people showing up, that things are being done.

I don't know what else I'm supposed to do, but I am supposed to bring it up when the votes are there and bring it up on the floor if they get them. And we've got a chance right now for people to decide.

And we were talking a little earlier, this day and age, right now, Tennessee has a chance to make a choice for who they are as a people. Our legislature has a chance to stand up and say who they are as a people.

We read about that same chance in the Old Testament where the people said, we want a king. And God says, you want a king? Let me tell you through his prophecy, let me tell you what that king is going to do.

He's going to destroy you.

He's going to take your daughters. He's going to take your sons. He's going to tax you. He's going to take what you got. And they say, we don't care. We want a king. And God let the people make that choice.

It wasn't the prophet that they were turning down.

It wasn't.

They were turning down our Lord. They were turning down what they knew. And I believe that people in Tennessee right now, pastors and grassroots folks, they've got to come up and say, we're in that choice.

And if they don't, their silence is actually their choice that they're making. If they're apathetic, that is a choice. Because if you are a Christian, it doesn't mean you just sit back. The gates are held.

The gates are held. They're not moving. It is the Christians that are supposed to overtake them. You just don't sit and watch the gates of hell fall. You've got to overtake them. And it says, those gates won't stand to us.

Will not prevail.

That's exactly right.

That's right.

And it is time for us to stand up and prevail against evil.

Yes.

God's given us the tours. He's given us what we're supposed to do. Let's stand up and do it.

Right on.

We do not have to be the heel. We're supposed to be the head. Let's start acting like it.

Amen.

I'm sorry. I got carried away.

Where's the plate? Get the offering plate in here. Where's the offering plate? Let's pass it around. Luke, I'm going to let you.

Lawlessness, Tyranny, and Standing on the Word

Yeah, so I was reading a little bit on the bill. And from what I read, it looked like there was some other representatives that disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision.

Yes.

But they were not willing to take a stand here and fight against the federal government because they said it was anarchy or lawlessness. So are you practicing lawlessness and anarchy by saying, no, we're going to stand firm on this?

I believe that by allowing the Supreme Court to do this and overstep the actual laws, they're the ones doing it.

Right.

I am following the law. If they can show me, if they can say, well, here's where it is in the Constitution where marriage is at their decision. If they can say, here's where it is where the Supreme Court had these rights.

If they can show me some of these things and say they've got the right to rule and dictate to us on that, I would go along with it. You know, I can't pass a law saying that the federal government can't tax us.

That's clearly a right given to them in the 10th Amendment or in the Constitution. You know, Article 1, Section 8 says that they can do that. But marriage is not. And it is so funny because two years prior to this ruling, to the day, two years prior to this ruling, the Supreme Court just ruled that it was not a federal issue.

They said marriage still belonged to the states.

Yeah.

And they ruled that previous to that as well.

Yeah.

So they ruled several times when this came up in the past that it is simply a state's issue and the Supreme Court didn't have standing in it. Now, all of a sudden, they do. And what is frustrating to me is anytime I go before a judge, and I believe that in our nation and in our state, we have the absolute right to think that that judge is going to be impartial or that panel of judges are impartial.

Well, we had two judges that had openly said that they want gay marriage. Two judges before this came up said that. And not only did they say that, they actually performed same-sex weddings.

Wow.

Now, if they did that, how can they turn around and rule and say, well, maybe what we ruled or what we just performed was wrong?

Sure.

Because then they're saying what we did was just wrong and our statements were wrong. How can they do that? So I don't think that that in any way says that they were impartial. They have to recuse themselves and then let it be heard.

So on many issues, do I believe it's wrong? And if we do not stand up for when they break the law, we're allowing that lawlessness to happen. And I know there's other people that are saying we need to do it a different way.

Let's go around, I don't want to say sneaky ways, but around the mountain and maybe we can attack it a different way. I don't think that's the correct way to do it.

I don't either.

My goal is to hit it right now, dead on, straight on. And I'd rather have people disagree with me for who I am, but they know who I am and where I stand than agree with me because they don't know what my values are or whatever.

And not everybody has to agree with me, but they're going to know where I stand. They will know where I stand. I don't think anybody in my district would be surprised what I do. This is not something that I've been here now six years.

It is not out of character at all because everything I'm doing, every place I go, I say, let's pray. Let's pray to our Lord Jesus Christ. Let's start here. This is a Christian value based person. This is who I am.

I look at a prism through the Bible. That is the text that I see the world. And it's not surprising that I would take a stand like this.

So instead of practicing anarchy, would you say you're defying tyranny?

That's exactly right.

If they're doing it, we're going to stop it.

We're going to stop it.

And I'm not against anybody else doing what they want to do to help come against us as well. But I just think that this is the strongest straightforward way to attack this issue. And I don't think that my Bible says that we should find a way around issues.

I think that we're supposed to stand strong. We're not supposed to be a lukewarm group. We're supposed to be the ones that hold the fire. It is us that is holding the accountability. It is us that's holding the light saying, this is clearly what we stand on.

Clearly what we stand on. There is no black, there is no gray in this black and white decision. So I believe that their way is more allowing the anarchy to continue where we're putting the light on it saying, no.

We're going to clearly go by what the law says.

Any chance you want to move to Arizona?

We've got some work that needs to be done.

I believe that God's got me planted here. And I'm supposed to stay and prosper where I am.

That's right.

But I do need help. Because this has got to take, this is a God problem. And this means that we need people that are going to be across the state. We need people that are going to be coming and saying to their pastors, to their legislators, stand strong.

Stand strong. And if we don't make a choice, if we don't, if we let this opportunity go by, I think that we're clearly allowing Satan to come in. We are clearly allowing this to overtake us more. Do you know what?

Darkness can never overtake light. It can only come when our light dims. Because darkness doesn't win. Light always wins. And if we can keep the light bright and sharp, darkness doesn't succeed.

Yeah, absolutely.

So that's what I need. I need more Christians to hold up their light. I need their prayers. We need their prayers. It is a spiritual battle. But I also need them to get active. They have to help me. Or whatever God's leading them.

I'm not saying this isn't about me. This is about who we're trying to stand up for.

Well, that's a good question to ask, guys. How can we get everyone that's watching our television show right now, everyone that sees us, how can we get them behind you? What do you specifically need? How can they get in contact with you?

What do you need from us?

All right.

Now, there is a group, and I'm not trying to orchestrate it, okay? And so when I'm saying, God, God, what is it you're laying out for me to do? And I believe he's clearly laid my path out. And then I've got to rely on God to fill in the rest of it.

Because if we're all part of the body, and if mine is just the mouthpiece at this point, I'm not supposed to do the feet, the hands. God's going to provide that. So I know I've got to do my part. But there's another group that's here, and they've got a website that says Courts Can't Make Law.

And that website is starting to be on there where it's going to show what legislators have agreed with us and are willing to stand with me and which ones aren't. And I believe that if they would contact the people on that website, I think it's Courts Can't Make Law.

Courts Cannot Make Law.

Courts Cannot Make Law.

Laws .com, yeah. Courts Cannot Make Laws. I think here, I'll look it up.

We'll make sure when we put this up. We'll put it underneath.

I was just looking at it.

Okay, yeah.

Laws, yeah. Courts Cannot Make Laws.

Courts Cannot Make Laws .com.

And they're making a list of what legislators are willing to stand on. Three issues with me.

Okay.

Because number one, I have to go on Rule 53, and I have to be able to vote behind me. I have to stand up and say, I want to bring this back up for everybody to vote on. And that's going to be one vote.

I need 66 votes. When that happens, they're going to immediately say, well, it's got this great big huge fiscal dump. So we've got to put it back to another committee.

Yeah.

If it goes back to another committee, you know what? It's going to probably stay in that committee. I need that to stay right here in this chamber, and we can vote on it here.

Okay.

So I need them to keep us where we are voting on it in this chamber to move forward.

Okay.

All right?

So those are the things that I need. But without it, we're losing time. Every day that goes by, time is running out on this issue. We're going to be out of here in probably about five, six weeks. So we are getting so close to having this done.

And in order for it to fit, we've got to get it through the Senate and everything else. We have to have it done in, like, the next two weeks.

Salt, Light, and Gospel Courage in Public Life

Well, you're looking very salty and very bright.

I will.

It's all in the light, brother.

I will tell you, if I or others lose their saltiness, you know, what are we good for but to be trampled?

And we are being trampled under the feet of men. That's the result of not being salty and light.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

And I've got to tell you, I appreciate you all doing it, because here's something else. I never don't know you all. I didn't meet you all. And I believe God's just bringing you all in to help get this message out.

Yeah.

We're going to do that. And just praise God for you all being here.

We're going to do that. We'll make sure the world sees.

Praise God. Praise the Lord.

All right, guys. So ApologiaTV. You can get more at ApologiaRadio .com. Get a hold of this man. Pray for this man. Support everything he's doing. As Christians, you know, we talk often about being salt.

We talk often about being light. We talk about the lordship of Jesus Christ. We talk about salvation. But oftentimes what we lack is the courage to do the work itself of the ministry. And when you look at the early Christians in the book of Acts, the charge being laid at their feet was they say there's another king, Jesus.

And my fear is that in this generation, that's not really a charge that can be lobbed against Christians, that they say there's another king. We often accept the tyranny and the lawlessness. We accept the darkness.

We almost invite it by our silence. And so if we really want to show love to neighbor, love God, love neighbor, two greatest commandments, if we want to show love to God and neighbor, we have to stand in these moments like Mark is where we stand for the truth.

We stand for love for neighbor. And we reach people with the gospel. It's moments like this that are actually gospel moments.

Yes.

Because this comes to the heart of the gospel, and that's our fallenness and our need for a savior.