October 8, 2025 Show with Dr. David A. Harrell on “Seven Key Principles for Effective Ministry”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

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Kerbal and County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this eighth day of October 2025.

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I'm absolutely thrilled to have a first -time guest today. His name is Dr. David A.

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Harrell. He is an author of a number of books, and he is the senior pastor teacher at Calvary Bible Church of Joelton, Tennessee.

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Today we are going to be addressing his book, Seven Key Principles for Effective Ministry, Nurturing Thriving Churches in a

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Postmodern Culture. And with that being said, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron for the very first time,

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Dr. David A. Harrell. Thank you. I'm honored to be here with you. Well, it is an honor to have you, brother.

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And if you could, let our listeners know about Calvary Bible Church of Joelton, Tennessee.

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Okay. We are an independent Bible church.

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I've been there as their pastor since about, well, in the early 90s.

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I've been the pastor there for 30 -plus years now. And we are kind of a rarity in our area because we have a robust Reformed soteriology.

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And as a Bible expositor, I'm a little bit of a rare breed because that's not exactly the flavor of the day.

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And yet we have a wonderful thriving group of people, especially a lot of young families with children and actually all ages.

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And so we are just rejoicing in the many ways God continues to manifest

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His goodness and grace towards us. I'm humbled to be their pastor. Amen.

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If anybody wants any more details on Calvary Bible Church of Joelton, Tennessee, go to cbctn .org,

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cbctn .org. And I already know that I've got to introduce you to some pastor friends of mine in Tennessee.

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Even though you're not right next door to them, the ones that I'm thinking of, you're about three hours away or so.

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But nonetheless, it'd be great for you to be introduced, and maybe you could cooperate and participate on events together and so on.

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That'd be great. Well, we have a tradition on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

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Whenever we have a first -time guest such as yourself, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they may have been raised and the kinds of providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them.

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And I would love to hear your story. Yes, I rejoice in the fact that God in His great mercy drew me unto

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Himself in a very profound way. When I was about nine years old,

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I was raised in a very godly Christian home. My mom and dad loved the Lord.

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My dad was a lay Bible teacher and a very successful businessman, and also a man that had survived the sinking of the

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USS Indianapolis at World War II. So he had quite a story to tell.

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In fact, I've written a book for him about that called Out of the Depths. But anyway,

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I came under conviction in a very profound way at an early age, and God saved me by His grace.

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And then over the years continued to grow me in the grace and the knowledge of Christ. And thankfully,

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I had access to parents and to a church that continually led me in a manner where I could understand the

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Scriptures and apply them to my life. And over the course of the years,

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I was greatly influenced by the Moody Bible Institute, the

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Moody Network. My dad was the vice chairman of the Board of Trustees at Moody Bible Institute for about 17 years.

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And it was over the course of those years that I got to know Dr. John MacArthur, and eventually that led to me attending

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Grace Theological Seminary and eventually being invited to go teach when

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I got finished. And I declined that at first because I wanted to do more doctoral studies.

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And after that, I eventually agreed to go out. John had asked me to come and help them start a master's in biblical counseling program at the master's university.

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So I went out there and did that. And then realizing that it was going to be very difficult to live in Southern California with a wife and three kids,

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I said, Brother, we've got this up and running. I need to go back to Tennessee where I can afford to live. And so I came back, and I've been at Calvary Bible Church ever since.

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But that's it in a nutshell. Now, how did you first come to discover the doctrines of sovereign grace?

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Actually, that was primarily through the ministry of several people that I got to know as a young man because I think

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I was probably Arminian by default. That seemed to make the most sense to me because I'd never really thought it through.

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Yes, Spurgeon said that everybody is by default Arminian. That would have been me.

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And yet I would say that especially as I began listening to John MacArthur and heard him exposit the word, it became abundantly clear what the doctrines of grace really were.

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And through his ministry, through R .C. Sproul, through men like that, over time it became real clear that that was the truth, and it was something that thrilled my soul as it continues to do.

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I'm profoundly humbled by it. And so I would say that in the providence of God, those were the circumstances that led me to that understanding.

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Well, since you mentioned the late John MacArthur, I'm going to read his wonderful endorsement for your book that we are addressing today.

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And once again, this book that we are discussing.

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By the way, you should probably contact especially your pastor, if you are not a pastor yourself, your elders, pastors of other churches that you know, and tell them to listen in today at irontreppansironradio .com,

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where they can livestream this program anywhere in the world. But the book that we are addressing is

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Seven Key Principles for Effective Church Ministry, Nurturing Thriving Churches in a

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Post -Modern Culture. And the late John MacArthur said of this book, Dave Harrell outlines with unusual clarity the essential features of authentic church ministry.

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Prepare to be instructed, encouraged, and powerfully motivated. And also, my very dear friend, who is the executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of the late

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John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, who has been on this program many times. I only had one opportunity to interview

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John MacArthur, but I've had Phil Johnson on many times, and he said of this book, this helpful work succinctly summarizes the essential principles of authentic biblical ministry.

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It is an excellent corrective to the trends that have left so many post -modern evangelical churches spiritually weak and ineffectual.

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Another very dear friend of mine that I've known since 1996, and who's been on my program many times since I first launched this show in 2005,

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Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Coboata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, who is also the founding chancellor of African Christian University, and is going to be speaking very close to where I'm sitting in February of next year in Baltimore, Maryland.

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I'm going to be trying to get him to speak for the second time at my

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheons. I'm going to hope to have him speak in early

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March of next year, as long as his schedule is open to that. We already are in dialogue about that.

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But Dr. Mbewe said of this book, Consider the chapters of this book as seven roots that must sink very deeply if you are to bear

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God -glorifying fruit in and through the church in a culture that has gone adrift from the moorings of its creator.

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As always, a wonderfully profound commendation from Dr.

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Mbewe. Well, some of what I'm going to ask you is already answered in the endorsements

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I read, but what was the compelling factor in your heart and mind that said to yourself,

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I've got to write a book on this very issue to assist churches as they are struggling with a postmodern culture.

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What were some of the most compelling factors that led you to either pick up a pen and paper or sit behind a computer keypad and start typing away?

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Well, it was mainly the involvement that I've had over the years with former students that are now pastors and other pastor friends and also many people who have even come to our church who have just been languishing in churches that really do not respect the authority of Scripture and they're as shallow as water on a plate.

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People are frustrated. And I might back up a little bit. For 10 years, I was in biblical counseling, serving a number of churches in the

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Nashville area. I worked with a lot of pastors and highly visible church leaders and a lot of artists in the music industry and so forth.

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But I became acutely aware of the challenges that pastors are facing and that churches are facing, especially with respect to the compromise that many pastors gradually began to embrace, sometimes unwittingly.

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And so, you know, it wasn't like there was one episode that, boy, this really is the straw that broke the camel's back, but just many factors.

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As I continued to mentor other young pastors,

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I have a nonprofit called Shepherds Fire, shepherdsfire .org,

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and it's basically to help fortify pastors and church leaders. And so as I mentor other pastors and I consult for churches that are having issues and so forth, all of those things came together to a point where I thought, you know,

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I really want to put something down succinctly that I think would be helpful to them.

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And actually, what happened, before I even decided to write the book,

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I did an exposition of Colossians 1, 24 through 29, and in that,

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I began to formulate what I would call seven key principles for effective ministry.

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And after preaching through that and receiving a lot of praise, so to speak, that it was helpful to people,

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I decided, you know, why don't I put this in book form and see what the

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Lord will do with it. So that's kind of the background. Well, why don't we go through as many of the principles as we could fit into this two -hour program.

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The two hours does go by a lot faster than many people may think it would, especially since we do have commercials in the show.

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But we will try to fit as many of these principles as possible, at least to whet the appetite of listeners to get a hold of the book.

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And by the way, let me, before I forget, give you all the website for Shepherd Press, the publisher of this book, shepherdpress .com,

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shepherdpress .com. But let's start with the first principle. Okay.

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And that would be that the first ruling conviction of a pastor's heart would be that he is consumed with God's glory.

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He must be consumed with God's glory. And the reason

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I begin there is because if you do not have a zeal for the glory of God, just a passion that comes from, frankly, a soul -captivating and sin -destroying vision of the majesty of God, then you really have no business being in pastoral ministry.

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And what is going to come from your heart through your lips will not be that which will cause people to share your zeal for the glory of God.

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Instead, you will end up having more of a life -dominating obsession with the things of the world, the things of the culture.

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Your church will become man -centered rather than God -centered. And therefore, as I looked at this passage of Scripture, and especially just the life of the

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Apostle Paul, it became very obvious that this is what really drove him at a most fundamental level.

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He had a preoccupation with just the unfathomable glory and greatness of God.

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And that really drove everything that he did. And so that's why

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I started with that particular ruling conviction.

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If you could give us some of the details that would fall under the umbrella phrase or term, the glory of God, because as you may know, that term is thrown around a lot, especially perhaps even in charismatic and Pentecostal circles, they'll call out or cry out that term or phrase, glory to God.

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But perhaps very few uttering those words even know what that exactly means.

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Could you give us some idea, paint a picture of some of the key things that would fall under that description?

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Yeah, it would certainly begin with just an understanding of the infinite perfections of the nature of the attributes of God, understanding who

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He is as our creator, as the sustainer, the redeemer, the consummator of all things.

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And certainly in the context of all of that, you come to a place where you realize that God's glory is manifested not only in His creation, but it's manifested in His word that He has given us that helps us understand who

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He is and what He has done to bring glory to Himself, especially through the person and the work of the

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Lord Jesus Christ. And so that means if you're going to have a zeal for the glory of God, you've got to understand the person and the work of Christ.

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You've got to understand the great doctrines of Scripture. There are so many, especially the doctrines of soteriology, because all of those things point us to who

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He really is and therefore who we really are, and that is profoundly humbling.

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And so it's based on propositional doctrinal truth, not some quiver in our liver.

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And I'm assuming that that is so closely and inseparably connected to the fact that a

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Bible -believing, biblically -functioning church should be

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God -centered, not man -centered, which tragically so many churches, if perhaps even the majority of churches today, are very man -centered.

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Well, absolutely. And this is the unfortunate consequence of evangelical pragmatism that essentially sees becoming more like the world as a better method of evangelism than preaching the gospel.

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And so most people, especially people that I counseled over the years, including many pastors, they have a very, very weak understanding of who

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God is and a weak understanding of the great doctrines, and especially when it comes to the doctrines of grace, all of the issues pertaining to soteriology.

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And also what happens is when you start preaching those things, many times people get offended.

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I mean, who wants to hear that all that they are and all that they do is fundamentally offensive to a holy

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God, and unless they repent and cry out for a mercy they do not deserve and a righteousness that they cannot achieve, that they will go to hell.

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I mean, people don't want to hear that. And so in order to fill up your church, you've got to kind of be a little more therapeutic, a little more tolerant, and kind of shave off the rough edges of the gospel, remove its offense, and that way people will embrace

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Jesus, but unfortunately they will embrace him for the wrong reasons typically. So these are the issues that you deal with with respect to these things.

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Amen. Well, we have to go to our first commercial break, and if you'd like to send in a question of your own to Dr.

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David A. Harrell on this very important subject that we are addressing today, seven key principles for effective ministry, nurturing thriving churches in a postmodern culture.

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Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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We are now back with David A. Harrell. He is a first -time guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and we are addressing the theme of a very important book,

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Seven Key Principles for Effective Ministry, Nurturing Thriving Churches in a

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Postmodern Culture. And if you could, go to that second key principle, brother.

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Yes, the second key principle is,

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I'm trying to remember it here. Oh, content with his suffering.

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I'd forgotten. Content with his suffering. We must be consumed with God's glory, but we must be content with the suffering that we have.

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And certainly that comes from Colossians 1 .24,

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where Paul said, Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh

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I do my share on behalf of his body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

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And the idea that the world continues to hate Christ, even though he is gone, and we as pastors, church leaders, people in a church, all believers, we are kind of the lightning rods that continue to bear the brunt of the world's hatred of Christ.

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And unless you are content with this kind of suffering, you will never have an effective ministry.

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And once again, if I can back up, you first must be consumed with God's glory.

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And I even, as I recall in chapter one, the illustration of Isaiah, who you will recall had just a soul -terrifying, sin -destroying vision of the glory of God in Isaiah 6.

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And when you think about it, that is what motivated him to continue on in his ministry, even though the pre -incarnate

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Christ himself told him that most people aren't going to listen to you. And so you've got to have that zeal for the glory of God in order to be able to endure the sufferings and be content with your sufferings.

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And I think it's important for pastors in particular to understand this, because we are going to suffer in unique ways.

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The gospel that we preach that brings glory to Christ just incites the anger and the malice of Satan and his followers, because it exposes them, the unfruitful deeds of darkness and all of the things that Satan hates.

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And so we are going to suffer. But the suffering that we have will even go beyond just the opprobrium of the world.

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It's going to include things like illness and calamities, poverty, heart -wrenching burdens.

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I mean, just dealing with broken relationships. And so as you go into pastoral ministry, especially with the young guys,

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I want to tell them that you're going to have to have a real contentment with what

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God is going to bring your way for your good and for his glory, especially in young pastors that go into smaller churches.

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I always say they tend to be family -owned and operate. Many times they're controlled by biblically undiscerning people.

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Sometimes you have even a theologically illiterate oligarchy that has no intention of submitting to a godly shepherd.

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And there can be problems in the church. And you just have to realize that this is part of it.

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But that also that God, in his infinite love and wisdom, has ordained to allow these things in order to dramatically display the goodness of his glory and grace and his attributes in our life.

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And so that's why I dealt with that second ruling conviction that you must be content with your suffering.

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Now, that is probably, I would imagine, the hardest of all the truths of Christianity to really take hold of, believe in, and act upon.

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Many people may say they believe in that. You may have many people that say they believe in many things.

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They may say they believe in the sovereignty of God over all things. They may even say they believe in the entirety of the 1689

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London Baptist Confession of Faith. And we could go on and on. But when it comes to, as they say, the rubber meeting the road, they very often will fall far short of the conviction that they profess with their lips.

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Yeah, that's right. And that's why I deal with this in that particular chapter.

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Because what we see is that saints through the ages have found great consolation knowing that whatever they're suffering,

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God is in it. He's not only intimately aware of it, but He is ultimately the source of it, even if it's the result of evil.

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Because we see that from the beginning, God ordained to allow evil to enter into His perfect universe.

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And He did this through the voluntary choices of moral creatures in order, as I said earlier, to just dramatically display

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His glory through His holiness, His wrath, His mercy, His grace, love, power, and so forth.

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And certainly it's a supreme blasphemy to consider God the author or the cause of sin.

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But because God is infinitely holy and He's utterly bereft of any form of unrighteousness,

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He cannot act wickedly. And so He's never the cause of sin, but He does bring it about indirectly through the willing voluntary actions of moral creatures.

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And that's why I say that He is ordained to allow these things to happen. And when

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I understand that as a pastor or for any believer, I realize that this hasn't caught

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God by surprise. This hasn't kind of slipped up on Him and now He's having to react because God is a sovereign

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God. He is not a contingent God. God knows it is omniscient.

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He knows all things and He's all powerful. And so I find great comfort, as do others.

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And I know I give illustrations, I forget all of them in the chapter, but you find great comfort in knowing that whatever we're dealing with, with respect to suffering,

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God is ultimately the source of it. God is ultimately doing something in His providence that we can't understand.

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And therefore we should never ask why, but what?

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God, what do you want me to do to give you glory in the midst of this great trial?

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Because certainly you don't owe me an explanation and I wouldn't be able to understand it if you did. So these are the issues that I deal with in that particular chapter.

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And why don't you provide for us the third principle? Okay, the third principle kind of flows from the other two.

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And that is, I call it the third ruling conviction. You must be condensed of your calling.

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A pastor must be condensed of his calling. And Paul spoke of this with regard to himself in Colossians 1 .25.

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He says, of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God.

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And I've dealt with a number of young men in particular who struggle with, you know, am

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I called to do this? And I struggled with it early on, especially when early on in my pastoral ministry,

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I encountered great difficulty with people that were frankly wicked.

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And there were times where I just wondered, Lord, am I in the wrong vocation here?

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Is this really what you want me to do? And one of the things that helped me survive as well as many others, and I'm thankful that I had godly mentors to go to, was just that sense of divine calling.

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And I give in this chapter, I give tests of divine calling.

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There's five of them that I give, and there's a lot of overlap, but I would suggest that there's five categories that emerge from Scripture that can be affirmed by just the personal experience of every faithful pastor.

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He must have, first of all, a longing to know and serve Christ. A young man must ask himself that.

40:39

Is that truly who you are? Do you have a longing to know and serve

40:46

Christ? And then secondly, do you have a sense of urgency to preach the gospel?

40:52

Is this a consuming priority? Is it a burning in your bones, so to speak?

40:58

And then thirdly, do you have a pervasive feeling of inadequacy? You know, as Paul said, who is adequate for these things?

41:06

The answer is none of us are. I mean, apart from Christ, we can do nothing, but we have to have that pervasive feeling of inadequacy.

41:14

Otherwise, we will go out thinking that we can do this on our own, and we can't.

41:20

And then the fourth test would be, do you have a burden to shepherd the flock?

41:27

And I go into great detail of what shepherding is. It's not just getting up and preaching the sermon, but it's getting in there, mixing it up with the sheep, struggling with them, smelling like them, so to speak, and being involved in their lives.

41:42

And then the fifth test is a public confirmation of spiritual gifts and character and abilities.

41:50

You know, just because you think you would make a good pastor and because mommy and daddy say you're a good preacher, doesn't mean that you are.

41:59

And so there needs to be a public confirmation of those things. Like in the old days of the

42:06

Reformation, I mean, you weren't allowed to ascend the sacred desk unless you had been ordained and really tested by godly theologians, because after all, you're going to be a physician of the soul.

42:20

And so it was a very serious thing. And so those are the categories that I use with respect to this whole issue of being convinced of your calling.

42:35

Yeah, that issue, a couple of the elements in that issue, especially in regarding to possessing a shepherd's heart, seems to be, from what

42:50

I have heard from elder boards who have been looking for a preaching and teaching pastor because the pastor that they had retired or moved on to another church or what have you, and they would have applicants that some of whom were magnificent orators and who were brilliant and who were just flowing with beautiful and biblical summaries of the

43:35

God -breathed Word and even not only the content of their messages, but the manner of their messages, manner of delivery of their messages.

43:44

But I can remember when I was helping a church find a new pastor, they got back to me, those that were on the pulpit search committee, and said, you know, everybody loved the way this young man preached, but we observed him during times of social gathering and so on over meals, and he seemed to have little concern of learning anything about the sheep in his midst and seemed very self -centered and aloof and seemed to isolate himself with his wife and children, and I could go on and on.

44:36

And they were too apprehensive to extend the call to this man because of that.

44:42

And rightfully so. You know, I think of 1 Peter 5 too, where we're told to shepherd the flock of God among you, and he says, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God, not for sordid gain, but with eagerness, nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

45:06

And, you know, that's why Paul would say, what is it, Galatians 4, I believe, he talked about his children, with whom

45:13

I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you. And so there has to be a part of this man that loves to be working even one -on -one with the sheep, to be willing to serve in obscurity when nobody's looking.

45:31

And to be able to do that with great joy. And the people will respond to that.

45:40

That's why I have made it a policy, and certainly I fail in many, many ways, but I make it a policy that if you need me, here's my phone number, here's my text, here's my email,

45:53

I will get back with you as quickly as I can, because I want to spend time with my people.

46:01

And this has to be a part of pastoral ministry, because if it's not, you really, if that's not who you are, and you have no real desire to do that,

46:13

I don't think God has called you to do that. Now, the aspect of that concept of knowing your calling, and you were speaking about the humility that needs to be in the heart and mind of someone truly called of God, and they need to recognize that they are completely dependent upon the triune

46:49

God to successfully answer the call and continue and strive in the call.

47:01

There is, and I've met men like this, who perhaps,

47:08

I don't know if it's something that they really believe in their heart and mind, or if they are overcompensating, trying to, and I don't want to be too harsh, but put on a show of humility.

47:25

But I have been concerned about some of my brethren that I know that are very gifted men, who

47:34

I believe belong in that office. But, you know, you ask them to speak somewhere, or, you know, you're just in a conversation with them, and it's this long, self -deprecating, tearing down of themselves, of being worthy of any kind of consideration like that.

48:01

Sometimes it can be so obsessive that you start to wonder, should

48:06

I be asking this person to speak at such and such a conference? You know what I'm saying? Right, yeah.

48:13

Yeah, and certainly that can be an issue. And what I talk about,

48:18

I call it a pervasive feeling of inadequacy. I'm talking about, like Paul, remember when he came to Corinth to preach the gospel?

48:28

It was an exceedingly wicked city, notorious for its moral degeneracy and idolatry.

48:36

Remember, he reminded the saints that he did so in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.

48:44

He talked about how his message and his preaching were not in pervasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the

48:49

Spirit and of power. I mean, he just knew that, look, I have nothing to offer apart from preaching

48:57

Christ and him crucified and only by the power of the Spirit. Will that make any difference in anybody?

49:04

Because the gospel is offensive. And that's the fear and trembling that he dealt with and that we all must realize.

49:15

And yet we got to be content with that and rejoice in that and watch

49:20

God do a mighty work as we just unpack the gospel with all of its offense and watch him save sinners and sanctify saints.

49:31

It's a glorious thing. I'm confident that you have witnessed over your years of ministry that one of the most difficult, harmful problems that exists within churches and church leadership and perhaps even especially men behind the pulpit is that they fear men far more, it seems, than they fear

50:00

God. And they want to present the message that even

50:08

Paul highlights as a serious danger, the tickling of ears, trying to appease the listener by saying things that you know that they will delight in hearing.

50:25

And that is not always somebody who is like a replica of Joel Osteen who never warns about sin and hell.

50:42

I think that that identical problem can be manifested in an opposite way where you can have, for instance, in some of the independent

50:57

Fundamentalist Baptist congregations I have visited, that pastor knows that he's going to tickle the ears of his congregants by warning about things that are damning, but they're things that are not known to exist amongst his congregation.

51:17

He'll be hammering away at all kinds of scandalous sins like homosexuality and provocative dress and all that kind of thing, but he's really not being courageous because he knows none of the people in his church, or at least he's pretty certain, fairly certain, that none of the people in his congregation are sinning in those ways.

51:46

He's got to be willing to condemn and warn them about things that they may be guilty of, or more likely to be guilty of.

51:54

Am I making sense? Yeah, absolutely. And we see the

52:00

Apostle Paul doing that repeatedly. I think even of Galatians 6, that if you have a brother who's in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore them in the spirit of gentleness.

52:13

And I mean, there has to be that type of a commitment. But unfortunately, especially for young men starting churches, and most churches are under 100 people, they're desperate to just get enough people to pay the bills and pay their salary.

52:32

And so it's like, oh boy, I don't know if I want to teach on the doctrine of election this week because I may lose a few people.

52:40

And boy, as soon as you start going down that road, you will not only eviscerate the glorious truths of the gospel that the

52:49

Spirit of God will use to save sinners, but you will compromise in such a way as to forfeit

52:54

God's blessing in your own life. And that's the grave danger. Amen. We have to go to our midway break right now.

53:01

And once again, if you have a question, submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

53:09

Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

53:18

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

53:27

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune

53:42

God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

53:50

In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

53:56

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

54:04

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

54:19

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

54:28

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

54:38

Westminster Larger Catechism titled, Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

54:44

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

54:56

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

55:08

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

55:15

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

55:23

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the

55:28

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.

55:44

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

55:53

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

56:00

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

56:10

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.

56:17

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.

56:26

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

56:31

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

56:38

podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a

56:45

Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keech's Catechism and the

56:51

Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

57:01

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

57:11

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. I'm Dr.

57:22

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

57:33

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Janssen and Christopher McDowell.

57:40

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

57:57

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

58:04

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

58:13

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

58:20

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

58:29

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

58:43

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

59:06

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

59:15

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

59:23

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

59:28

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

59:41

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

59:47

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

59:53

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

59:58

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

01:00:08

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the

01:00:15

Reformers, Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone.

01:00:21

Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity. For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

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HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

01:00:34

Or call 678 -954 -7831. That's 678 -954 -7831.

01:00:42

If you visit, tell them Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, and a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

01:00:49

Hi, this is

01:00:58

John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

01:01:06

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

01:01:18

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

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Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

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I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift, or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:02:04

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

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01:04:04

Many things that the Trump administration has ushered in, but here's something that seriously concerns me.

01:04:11

On July 18th, President Donald Trump signed the Genius Act into law.

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This new law allows financial institutions to convert your hard -earned dollars into stable coins, a digital token backed by $37 trillion in national debt.

01:04:32

They will not need your approval. You hand over your dollars, and they give you a trackable, programmable, freezeable token.

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This sounds like something out of a science fiction movie. They get control, and you get surveillance.

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Stable coins are not freedom. They're a digital leash. This is one step away from a full -blown digital currency.

01:04:57

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01:05:08

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Tell them Chris from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio sent you. Puritan Reformed is a

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01:07:01

Welcome back. Before I return to my fascinating conversation with David A.

01:07:07

Harrell, I have some very important announcements to make and to remind you of.

01:07:13

Folks, if you really love this show and do not want it to go off the air, I'm urging you, please go to www .IronTrumpinsIronRadio

01:07:21

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Support at www .IronTrumpinsIronRadio .com, where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Trumpins Iron Radio.

01:07:46

If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, para -church ministry, your business, private practice like a law firm, medical firm, or maybe it's just a special event that you want to promote, whatever it is, if it's compatible with my beliefs,

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I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

01:08:08

And that is especially true right now because, as you may have heard me say recently on this program, we have recently lost two of our largest advertisers.

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For many years, we have had the privilege of being financially supported by the wonderful Christian book distributor

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, known by the acronym

01:08:38

CVBBS .com. And we recently lost them as an advertiser because they have closed their doors permanently.

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So that was a huge loss of income for us, and we lost another large advertiser, and there may be another one that follows.

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So please, folks, help us to replenish the money that we've lost. If you really love the show, go to irontrepanzionradio .com,

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click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. And, of course, as urgently as we need your financial help,

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I never want anybody in my audience to give your own church, where you're a member, less money than you normally give your church on the

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Lord's Day, in order to bless Iron Trip and Zion Radio with a financial gift. Please don't do that.

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And also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you bless us with a financial gift.

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But if you do love the show, and you don't want it to go off the air, and you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, and you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and even trivial purposes, well, please share some of that money with us if you love the show.

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Go to irontrepanzionradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now.

01:10:03

Last but not least, if you're not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Calvary Bible Church of Joelton, Tennessee, well, no matter where you live in the world,

01:10:18

I have helped many people in our audience spanning the globe find churches that are biblically faithful, sometimes even just a couple of minutes from where they live, and that may be you, too.

01:10:31

No matter where you live, please send me an email. If you are without a biblically faithful church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:10:39

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send a question to Pastor David A.

01:10:47

Harrell as we continue with this very important topic, which is also the theme of the book that we are addressing by Dr.

01:11:01

Harrell, Seven Key Principles for Effective Ministry, Nurturing Thriving Churches in a

01:11:08

Postmodern Culture. And we do have an anonymous listener, Dr. Harrell, who says,

01:11:16

I have personally known men that have accepted the call to pastor a church who are believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace, and the calling churches are vehemently opposed to those doctrines, but have become enamored with the candidate for one reason or another.

01:11:36

Perhaps he's just very likable or just very brilliant and gifted in the way he preaches and teaches, but they have warned the candidate, you must not talk about the doctrines of Calvinism behind our pulpit.

01:11:53

And these men have accepted this restriction, hoping that eventually down the road, the elders will be softened to permit these things to be taught.

01:12:05

Is that ever a wise move? No, I do not think it is.

01:12:11

I've seen that happen before, and it ends up being a disaster. In fact, many times there will be people who with a doctrinal statement may embrace, for example, the doctrines of grace, but they really don't know what it means.

01:12:28

When they hear it preached, it's like, well, wait a minute. We don't believe that. Yeah, like the Baptist faith and message.

01:12:34

There are many churches that claim that in their websites, but the description of election, they don't seem to believe in that tenet at all.

01:12:46

No, and the implications of that are severe. And so that's just, my, that's a recipe for disaster.

01:12:56

And I would certainly not recommend a man take that position. In fact, in many cases,

01:13:04

I've had to tell guys after they share with me the position of the church, that they would be better off looking elsewhere or even starting their own church with a nucleus of people that are like -minded.

01:13:19

Otherwise, you end up with division right from the get -go. Moreover, that indicates that they are not really willing to be shepherded by the man they're putting in that position, but rather they want to shepherd him.

01:13:34

And so that could be a very disastrous situation.

01:13:41

Okay, we have Kyle in Pleasant Valley, New York. Kyle wants to know, is it advised for a pastor to develop very close friendships with perhaps those on the deacon board or just non -office bearers because of the fact that it may appear to have favoritism as a part of that friendship?

01:14:11

That depends upon a lot of things, but I would say you want to be very careful in showing any kind of favoritism and showing any kind of specific alliance because other people will see that and it can cause division.

01:14:29

And so I know, for example, I always say that I love all the people in my church.

01:14:35

I wouldn't want to go camping with all of them. And I've got key men that I have, especially my elders, that I can fight in, that fill my pulpit when

01:14:53

I'm gone, et cetera. But I don't have any one or two men that people will perceive me as being closely aligned with to the exclusion of others.

01:15:09

I try to be very, very careful with that because it can look cliquish and problems begin to develop.

01:15:20

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11 that you're always going to have divisive people in the church.

01:15:26

And it's just going to be a part of that. And so you want to be careful not to do anything that might communicate to other people that you've got this little clique going on, and they begin to create a narrative that it's kind of a little oligarchy and before you know it, you've got problems.

01:15:44

So I would really guard against that. But that's a good question. Now, how do you explain—there must have been something very unique about Jesus Christ's friendship with John.

01:16:01

And the Scriptures actually say that he is the disciple that Jesus loved.

01:16:06

Now, obviously, he loved all of his disciples that were regenerate, with the exception of Judas.

01:16:16

But nonetheless, he was Judas's friend. But how would you say that Jesus was not demonstrating a closeness to John that would violate the very thing that you said?

01:16:37

Well, I would say that this is a little bit different with the apostles rather than being in a church that you're shepherding.

01:16:46

I mean, he is developing these men. You know, you've got the twelve, and he spent most of his time with three of them.

01:16:56

And so I would say that in his supernatural wisdom and the way he dealt with all of them, that he could avoid that, probably in ways that we couldn't.

01:17:09

Avoid somehow the idea that, well, you're not as special as John or whatever.

01:17:17

And so I would say that's not really comparing apples for apples. It would be different, like, for example, with the apostle

01:17:26

Paul. You know, he warned about how you had divisions in Corinth. Well, we're of Apollos and we're of Paul, and you have these sectarian alliances that get developed.

01:17:38

And that's what you really want to avoid. But I wouldn't think that there would have been that kind of an issue, any kind of jealousy, except with Judas.

01:17:50

And obviously, he was the outlier there because of just who he was.

01:17:58

Well, why don't we enter into the fourth principle? The fourth principle is that a man must be controlled by one message.

01:18:09

And I derive this primarily from—I mean, you can look at a lot of passages, and by the way, that's going to be the gospel.

01:18:17

But he said in Colossians 1, 25, and 6, he says, of this church I was made a minister so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the

01:18:25

Word of God. That is the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to his saints, to whom

01:18:35

God will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles.

01:18:41

And what is that? He says, it's Christ in you, the hope of glory. And so this is the glorious truth, the message of the gospel, which will encompass the whole counsel of God.

01:18:54

And the gospel has been so perverted these days that it bears little resemblance to what it really is, as we see in the

01:19:04

New Testament. And so much of it today is kind of, you know, you have the prosperity gospel and the felt needs gospel, the social gospel, all that type of thing.

01:19:16

And the point is, people are not going to be warned about the offended holiness of God.

01:19:22

That causes his wrath to abide on sinners, for example. And I think of Paul, remember when he was before Felix, in his sermon he spoke on,

01:19:35

I believe it was righteousness, self -control, and the judgment to come, and it caused Felix to tremble.

01:19:40

I mean, that's at the heart of the gospel. And so a man has to be controlled by that one message and not start going off into other areas of conversation and other topics as if he needs to come up with,

01:19:59

I think I used the example of the latest version of the iPhone, you know, you got to continue to reinvent yourself to meet the needs of the consumer, rather than just unpacking the magnificent truths that God saves sinners.

01:20:14

Here's who he is, here's who we are, et cetera. And when he's controlled with that message, then he will be like Paul, again, who came into Corinth, and he was ruled by that one message.

01:20:28

He preached nothing but Christ and him crucified. And look what happened. And so that's at the heart of that particular ruling conviction, which is the fourth ruling conviction that I talk about, being controlled by one message.

01:20:45

Okay, we have Andy in Orrington, Maine, and Andy says, there are some people that will twist the truth of the glorious understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ as being primary.

01:21:09

Even Paul, we know, said that he counts everything but dung except Christ and him crucified.

01:21:17

But however, there are those that twist this and try to teach that we are to be unconcerned about other important matters in the body of Christ that are not focused exclusively on the gospel.

01:21:31

For instance, they will say that we are quibbling and making mountains out of molehills over things like a solely male church leadership and over things that divide

01:21:45

Arminians and Calvinists and things such as the dispute over pato -baptism versus believer -only baptism.

01:21:55

How do you comment on that? Well, if I understand the question correctly,

01:22:04

I think what he's concerned with is making sure that we don't disregard other areas of Bible doctrine and how we need to carry out just the overall message of the gospel in the church, how we're to conduct ourselves in the church.

01:22:24

You want to be careful that, and I'm certainly not saying this when I'm talking about being controlled by one message.

01:22:30

I'm not saying that you don't deal with 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 with respect to the qualifications of an elder or looking at issues pertaining to marriage and divorce or whatever.

01:22:43

And that's why later on in the book, I talk about how we've got to be devoted to expository preaching where you deal with every passage as it comes.

01:22:55

And all of those things are going to fit into the good news of the gospel that, again,

01:23:02

God saves sinners. And when he saves us, he has revealed to us through his word how we are to conduct ourselves in the church, in the body of Christ.

01:23:12

And so all of these other issues, whether it's baptism or whatever, they're going to come up as we go verse by verse through various passages of Scripture.

01:23:21

And certainly we want to deal with those. But we don't want to have just an evangelistic message, as some people will do, where, you know, it's basically a one -string banjo.

01:23:33

And I've been to churches like that where it's always, you know, you've got to get saved and you've got to tithe.

01:23:40

And then you have, you know, a long altar call. And certainly that's not at all what

01:23:46

I'm talking about here. Amen. Let's see. We have

01:23:56

Grayson in Toronto, Canada.

01:24:05

And Grayson says, Would you be willing to tell the audience about any crisis or trial you experienced as a pastor that made you consider whether or not you did have the calling and should remain steadfast in that post?

01:24:27

Yes, that's a very fair question. Early on, I made the mistake of putting into leadership men that weren't fully qualified.

01:24:41

It was a small church. You know, we've got just a few families, and we got to a place where maybe we were 30 or 40 people.

01:24:51

And I had some men that I thought were pretty close to filling or meeting the qualifications of an elder.

01:25:01

We were an elder -led church. And so a couple of them

01:25:07

I put in, and I really didn't vet them as I should. And little by little, there were problems.

01:25:16

And there was baggage from, like, for example, I had a couple of guys wanting me to teach tithing, and that God wants us to give 10%.

01:25:27

Well, one guy argued that it was 10 % of net, and the other one was arguing it's 10 % of gross.

01:25:32

And I said, No, it's neither one. And I tried to explain that. Well, it starts to cause division. And somebody else thinks that we need to do more to have altar calls.

01:25:42

And I explained that. And so little by little, I began to see that we're just not on the same page.

01:25:48

And then the division continued to grow to a point where some people got upset and left the church.

01:25:59

And now, all of a sudden, you have people saying bad things about me and my family.

01:26:05

And every pastor's been around this type of thing before. And there were literally times there where I thought,

01:26:12

Lord, I don't know what to do. Some of this stuff just comes out of nowhere.

01:26:17

I can't even believe it. And I realized it's spiritual warfare. And yet, you know, how do you deal with this?

01:26:26

And so there were literally times early on when I questioned if God really wanted me to do this and questioned if physically

01:26:35

I was going to be able to bear up under it, along with my wife and my children, because some people were absolutely wicked in how they treated us.

01:26:45

Now, over time, by God's grace, we were able to deal with those things.

01:26:51

And those people left the church and things began to heal. And I can say that after the church got to about 70 or 100 people, we had enough mature believers there that they could begin to filter out some of the others that might come into the church that would have, you know, errant doctrine or whatever that could begin to cause trouble.

01:27:14

And certainly now, with where we're at, we have people that deal with these things. And most of the time,

01:27:19

I don't even hardly hear about it. They only bring me in on, you know, more severe cases. And so those were some of the things that were exceedingly painful early on, when you start losing people and they start saying things that are just slanderous and twisting the truth and being divisive.

01:27:38

And it's very, very hurtful. Excellent.

01:27:44

Okay, why don't we enter into the fifth principle? Well, the fifth principle is being confident with one message.

01:27:56

I mean, one method, I'm sorry, confident with one method. And by the way, this feeds off of the one before it, being controlled by one message, because if your message is the gospel, then that really determines your strategy for ministry.

01:28:16

And it's interesting, Paul was so confident in the message he preached that his philosophy of ministry could really be described as counterintuitive, because he didn't come in and do the things that all of the orators were doing.

01:28:33

He just came in and unleashed the gospel. And so that was the idea of being controlled by that one message.

01:28:41

But he was also, as I say, confident in one method.

01:28:47

And by this, what I'm referring to is the method of expositional preaching.

01:28:55

And we can see this again in Colossians 1, 28. He says, we proclaim him admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom.

01:29:07

And there's a number of other passages that I use with respect to that.

01:29:12

But when I talk about this one method,

01:29:18

I'm talking about just the doctrinal proclamation of the word of God, not coming up with all kinds of topics that you preach on.

01:29:34

That's not to say that you don't deal with topics from time to time, but you make sure that you're preaching is a doctrinal proclamation of the word of God that's really derived from an exegetical process that's concerned with the revelation of God, that is not concerned with the wisdom of man.

01:29:53

And so therefore, when you preach, you're very careful to convey the

01:29:59

God -intended meaning of a text, the authorial intent, as it's often called.

01:30:05

And that's going to be linked together with other great doctrines and other biblical truths.

01:30:11

And then after you've accurately explained the text, and that's what exposition is, then the preacher should just passionately apply those truths to the contemporary issues of life, especially those things going on in your church.

01:30:31

And I might add that this is also linked to the great

01:30:37

Reformed concept of sola scriptura, that we preach Scripture.

01:30:44

I think it was Os Guinness that quipped that we've replaced sola scriptura with sola cultura, that we're preaching about the culture.

01:30:59

And I see this a lot, and I've got churches around us where the guys, they're not preaching the word.

01:31:06

They may have a verse or two, but they have kind of the, I call it the one, two, three method of preaching.

01:31:12

You got one verse, two jokes, and three stories. And that's the extent of it.

01:31:19

And many are really nothing more than entrepreneurs that are trying to make the church more relevant to the culture.

01:31:26

And frankly, they end up selling a spirituality that's disconnected to biblical truth, and therefore really makes it utterly irrelevant to the culture.

01:31:42

But when you have the one method of getting in the word and explaining the word, sticking to the word, preaching the word, come what may, with all of its offense, that's what the

01:31:53

Spirit of God uses to change hearts and to change minds. And so that would be the overall theme of that particular chapter in the book.

01:32:06

Well, why don't we enter now into the sixth principle, and it looks like we will have time for all seven today.

01:32:15

But begin to explore the sixth principle. Okay, let me remind myself of exactly how

01:32:23

I put it here. The sixth principle or the sixth ruling conviction is we've got to be committed to one end, and that is that we may present every man complete in Christ, Colossians 1 .28.

01:32:40

I mean, this has to be the passion of our heart. We want to see people come to know and to love

01:32:47

Christ and to grow into conformity to the likeness of Christ. And again, that's only going to happen when we unleash the word of God.

01:32:59

It has to be the in -depth, systematic teaching, preaching, and application of the word.

01:33:06

And that's what God uses to sanctify saints. As Jesus prayed, what, in John 17, that before he went to the cross, father sanctified them in the truth, thy word is truth.

01:33:21

And that's what God is going to use to make a person mature in Christ and to make person complete or perfect, be more like Christ.

01:33:34

And that was Paul's passion to present every man complete in Christ. And so that's why

01:33:40

I would say that this has to be the priority of every pastor.

01:33:50

Amen. And we have another listener named

01:34:00

Craig. And Craig is from Halifax River, Florida.

01:34:11

And Craig says, Have you noticed at all in your travels and in your work as a minister that all too often churches will appoint men to the offices of elder and deacon primarily because they are successes in business and that that is an issue that far overshadows anything spiritual in their lives?

01:34:37

I am not saying that success in business should not be any factor at all when considering someone for those offices, but not a primary one.

01:34:49

What do you think about that? And what has your experience been? Yeah, that again is a recipe for disaster.

01:34:57

The qualifications of an elder has to be consistent with 1

01:35:02

Timothy 3 and Titus 1, especially the whole issue of being able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

01:35:13

I've known a lot of great businessmen who have a lot of business acumen, but they have no understanding of some of the great doctrinal truths in Scripture.

01:35:27

And so when you run across issues pertaining to those things, they don't know what to say. And that's not what shepherding is all about.

01:35:37

And so, yeah, you want to make sure that you stick with the qualifications. Alexander Strauch's book on biblical eldership and his book on biblical deacons and so forth, great texts on that.

01:35:51

And I don't remember exactly, but I think I deal with this as well in my book,

01:35:57

Seven Key Principles for Effective Ministry. But that's a great observation and a very dangerous thing to do.

01:36:05

And by the way, folks, if you want to hear the interviews that I've conducted with Alexander Strauch, just go to ironsharpensironradio .com

01:36:14

and type in the search engine S -T -R -A -U -C -H, and those interview links will come up.

01:36:22

I really enjoyed those interviews and hope to have Alexander back on the program.

01:36:28

In fact, I also hope to have him serve as one of our pastors' luncheon speakers in the future.

01:36:36

He has already agreed to do that. It's just a matter of working at the best date for us to pull that off.

01:36:45

So that was a great recommendation. We are going now to our final commercial break.

01:36:52

If you do have a question, I would strongly urge you to send it in immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:37:00

Send it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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01:40:19

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01:40:49

But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

01:41:03

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

01:41:10

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

01:41:15

God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

01:41:22

I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

01:41:29

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

01:41:41

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

01:41:49

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com

01:41:57

That's nhpbc .com You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672

01:42:07

That's 516 -352 -9672 That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

01:42:26

God bless you. I'm Simon O'Mahoney, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

01:42:36

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

01:42:46

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune

01:43:01

God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

01:43:10

In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

01:43:15

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org

01:43:23

That's trbccarlisle .org God willing, we'll see you soon.

01:43:29

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

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Associates, from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And if you could,

01:46:09

Dr. Harrell, now enter into the seventh key principle. Yes, the seventh key principle that I address is being confirmed by one power, referring to the power of the spirit.

01:46:26

And I drive this again from the text in Colossians. In Colossians 129,

01:46:31

Paul says, For this purpose also I labor, striving according to his power, which mightily works within me.

01:46:42

And here you see the Apostle Paul working to the point of exhaustion.

01:46:48

That's the idea that he has here. And he's describing here that his efforts are striving according to the power that's working mightily within him, referring to the divine enablement that comes from the indwelling spirit.

01:47:08

I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 15, where he says, But by the grace of God I am what

01:47:15

I am, and his grace toward me did not prove vain. But I labored even more than all of them, yet not

01:47:22

I, but the grace of God with me. So the idea here is if you're going to truly honor the

01:47:33

Lord in your pastoral ministry and in your church, you simply must depend upon the power that works within you through the triune

01:47:43

Godhead. And especially here, as Paul is talking about this, the power of the spirit of God.

01:47:52

And I'm reminded too, it just comes to my mind that the early saints, when choosing deacons, they were to look for a man who was full of the spirit and of wisdom,

01:48:08

I believe is how it's said. And this is what I've seen over the years in pastors.

01:48:15

You're going to have lots and other pastoral leaders within the church.

01:48:21

You're going to have men that are going to vary with respect to their philosophies of ministry and their preaching styles.

01:48:29

And you're going to have men that are effective and some that aren't very effective.

01:48:35

But at times you run across those men, and I think we all know some of these in our own mind and heart, that have what

01:48:44

I call a godly presence. And what I mean by that, and I talk about that in this chapter, it's just a noticeable aura of godliness about that man, both in and out of the pulpit.

01:48:57

It's a man that just exudes the glory of Christ. He possesses just a palpable sense of humility and love, and you're drawn into his presence.

01:49:08

And this is that kind of guy that's full of the spirit.

01:49:14

He's full of wisdom, and this is that exceptional man that has just such a great likeness to Christ that he really emanates his power in ways that at times just seems almost mysterious.

01:49:28

And when you hear them preach, you're just drawn into, not that man, but into Christ as he proclaims who

01:49:37

Christ is. And he has a way of just kind of getting out of the way, and you see

01:49:42

Christ. And that's just kind of an example of what I've seen in that kind of a man that is confirmed by that one power.

01:49:52

He's not preaching on his own strength. He's preaching, and he's teaching, and he's shepherding.

01:49:59

He's striving according to that power that is working mightily within him.

01:50:05

So that's what I would conclude with. The seventh ruling conviction is to be confirmed by one power.

01:50:13

Amen. We have Beverly in Cuyahoga, Long Island, New York.

01:50:21

And Beverly asks, I know that we are never to idolize mere men, but since the passing of John MacArthur, and since you apparently view him with high esteem, having had his endorsement for your book, as was mentioned earlier, can you tell us some things that he most benefited your ministry through example?

01:50:53

Boy, there's a lot of things I could talk about. I loved

01:50:58

John. One of the things that I can say with absolute certainty from personal experience is, he was truly a godly man in private, even as he was in public.

01:51:15

There was nothing about the way he conducted himself that would bring reproach upon his character or Christ.

01:51:23

And I found him to be just a man that was always intimately concerned about other people, even me.

01:51:39

And I didn't get to spend a lot of time around him, but certainly as one of his professors,

01:51:46

I enjoyed meals and sat by him with games, and we talked theology and had coffee along with other guys.

01:51:54

But one of the things that I remember most about him, even when

01:51:59

I hadn't seen him in a long time, he would say, Dave, how are you?

01:52:06

And how's Nancy? How's the kids? How's the church? And it's like, how can he even remember my wife's name or my kids or whatever, especially when

01:52:16

I hadn't seen him maybe in several years. And so the thing that really impressed me about him was how he truly loved people.

01:52:26

And that came across. Some people would say he seemed rather austere and kind of frightening in the pulpit.

01:52:36

But when you get to know him as a man, he was very, very kind and gentle.

01:52:42

And I was always impressed with his deep concern for me, for my family, my church and other people as well.

01:52:52

So that's a real compliment that I would give him, along with many others that I could think of.

01:52:59

OK, we have Ashland in Salvington, Connecticut.

01:53:06

And Ashland asks, can you name some of your other great heroes of church history that you seek to emulate in your ministry?

01:53:18

Yeah, and I've got several of them in this book that I talk about.

01:53:27

But I've been profoundly impacted down through the years by men like John Owen and Jonathan Edwards and certainly

01:53:40

Charles Spurgeon. And then, you know, moving ahead,

01:53:47

I have a great love for Sinclair Ferguson and for Conrad M.

01:53:54

Bayway and for Eric Alexander and for I'm trying to think of R .C.

01:54:07

Sproul and, you know, those kinds of guys. And then some of them are still around, like my good friend

01:54:14

Phil Johnson that you talked about earlier. We try to have him at the church at least once a year and others like that.

01:54:21

But down through the years, the great reformers have had a real impact on me in particular.

01:54:29

Yes, and I don't want to make you jealous. But Dr. Conrad M. Bayway, the very first place that he ever preached in the

01:54:38

United States was the church where I was formerly a member on Long Island, New York. Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick.

01:54:48

And that was 1996. And thanks be to God, we had through his providence a friendship that began during that visit.

01:55:01

And it's lasted all these years. And look forward to having

01:55:06

Conrad back in my area of my new area of Pennsylvania, South Central Pennsylvania, to preach.

01:55:16

It's something that I arrange and host. He is truly my favorite preacher on the planet

01:55:23

Earth. He's a dear, dear brother. Yes. Amen to that. Dear brother.

01:55:28

I love to talk with him. He's got this calming effect. He's got that presence that I was talking about.

01:55:37

Yes. In fact, speaking of calming effects, Conrad and I, during a recent visit to Long Island, New York, Conrad and I had the awesome privilege to visit a friend of both of ours who was on his deathbed.

01:56:02

And this brother was very anxious about his spiritual state before God.

01:56:09

And Conrad just did a glorious job putting this brother at ease after asking him some pertinent questions about where he believed he stood before the

01:56:28

Lord himself. Oh, yeah. And after being convinced that the brother was still making a solid profession and being convinced after knowing him for decades, this is

01:56:46

Gary Wolf, for those of you who are listening or wondering who I'm speaking of. He was able to put

01:56:56

Gary at ease. And Gary, within just, I think, two weeks after that visit, went home to be with the Lord. Oh, wow.

01:57:03

But it was an honor to be standing right next to Conrad to hear him pour out his heart for this brother.

01:57:11

Yeah. There's a guy that was confirmed by one power. That's the

01:57:17

Spirit of God working through his choice servant. So that's a great story.

01:57:24

If you could, in about two minutes' time, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:57:33

Well, I would say that I would want you to come away with just an overwhelming sense of the glory of God in the face of Christ, because there is nothing greater in life, nothing that will even bring more joy in life than contemplating the infinite perfections of the person in the work of Christ.

01:58:00

And to see all of these things unveiled in his self -disclosure, in his word, and to meditate upon these things and to memorize these things and to proclaim these things.

01:58:15

That is just what the Spirit of God uses to produce within us just a soul exhilarating joy of the presence of God.

01:58:25

And hopefully this little work of mine would help you to that end as you think through some of these issues.

01:58:36

Amen. Well, if anybody listening wants to purchase this book, and by the way, we want to thank

01:58:42

Shepherd Press for being so gracious to us as they always are.

01:58:50

Whenever I have an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, at my last luncheon, they provided a copy of this book,

01:59:02

Seven Key Principles for Effective Ministry, to every single man that attended that event.

01:59:08

But if you would like to purchase a copy, go to shepherdpress .com,

01:59:15

shepherdpress .com, and let me not forget to repeat the website of Calvary Bible Church in Jolton, Tennessee, where Dr.

01:59:26

David A. Harrell is the pastor. That website is cbctn .org, cbctn .org.

01:59:35

I want to thank you so much, Dr. Harrell, for doing such an exquisite job today as my guest, and I look forward to many return visits from you to discuss other topics and other books that you've written.

01:59:52

Thank you. It's been my joy, and I thank you for your faithfulness in ministry. It's a privilege to co -labor with you for the glory of Christ.

02:00:00

I really appreciate that very much, brother, and I want everybody who is listening right now to always remember for the rest of your entire lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater