Episode 19: Biblical Church Revitalization with Harold Smith

The Rural Church Podcast 2. .0. Wait a second. It's December.

That's better. Just a couple of pastors discussing life, ministry, theology, the gospel from a local church perspective.

Eddie.

What's it time for?

The Rural Church Podcast.

Welcome to the Rural Church Podcast Episode 19 Eddie, which coincidentally is also the age of our guest today Harold Smith. Say hello Harold. How are you guys doing? Eddie didn't say hello. I forgot. How you doing?

I'm doing great. What kind of years are those?

Harold here, he's 19 in Harold years, whatever that means. I'm the oldest guy on the podcast. But not the best-looking.

No never claimed to be.

Harold is. Well, Harold, tell us a little about yourself. Why don't you give a shout out. Y 'all still doing your Patriot pastor podcast?

Are we still doing it? You're a little late to the game. We were doing it before you guys ever arrived.

Well, I just hadn't seen an episode come out recently. So maybe I just been out of the loop.

We can say more every other week than you say every week. So we only do it on odd weeks. Wade Lentz pastor. Wade Lentz. He's the pastor at Beryl Baptist Church in Bologna, Arkansas. He and I have been doing the backwoods Baptist podcast for a trip master a couple years.

No, what does say backwoods Baptist? Yeah Patriot pastor. I got another podcast. It's a phantom podcast. I've never done an episode, but I've got everything ready to go. I just never do it. Patriot pastor podcast and wait talks politics and I talk religion.

That's basically the way it goes. Yeah, and anyways so we do that and As far as you asked me about myself I was or the 14 years the pastor of Lee Creek Baptist Church in Van Buren and I left there last September in 2021 to Embark on the ministry that I'm currently engaged in.

The Respect for Marriage Act and the Limits of Political Hope

We.

We're privileged to have you on. You've been a good brother and friend to both of us and we all. Really? Well Eddie and I were friends before this, but we got to know Harold. Through the annual preachers of grace conference in Van Buren, Arkansas an amazing Event, I would just thinking about that.

I would just encourage Pastors to create a network a fellowship of brothers in the Lord and It's it's a huge help. You know, this this is not coming out till December 14th. So By that time this will be old news.

But I do just want to ask you guys if you have any comments about what we saw last night with the respect for marriage the Senate has Approved the respect for marriage Whatever bill and now it's going to go to the house.

You got any comments or thoughts on that?

You know, I I don't keep up with with the news as closely as I probably Probably should but you know, I would say the first thing that comes to mind is just. We know that this is the direction our culture is going in but Christ is still King and we know that to be the case.

And I seen I did see something that somebody posted earlier on Facebook just pointing out the fact that It's it's not us who ought to be as concerned about The destruction that's going to come as probably the people that are for this because this is going to destroy them.

Because what godless culture does is it destroys it destroys itself. It eats itself and so. The only hope of our culture is not political.

It is the preaching of the gospel. I don't really know anything about it. Just to be honest with you I don't. I haven't watched a news episode In a good three years. So yeah, well a little bit I get on Twitter keeps me informed enough.

I get real interested when it's time to vote because that's when I have a part in it. And then I have to let the Elected officials conduct my government and until it's time for me to vote again, and that's just the way I view it.

So I'm not watching Fox News. I don't know what the policies are. I know I voted for the best candidate available to me and then I have to let them guys do what? God gave them to us to do which sometime is for our judgment.

Well, it's a sad sad time in our country and just think about the desecration of marriage. But let's kind of segue into this. I think when we see the country faltering like it is that ought to embolden us to dive even deeper to be more committed to the local church and so We love the local church on this podcast.

That's what it's about the rural church podcast not just rural churches, but all all local churches, but Harold you seem to have a special place in your heart for the rural church and Let's start out talking about that and I want to get into what you're doing now.

But but why do you love the rural church? And you know, I'm not sure I'm certainly not trying to separate it from the local church in urban areas. Praise God We we love that too. Just a lot of there's a lot of voices out there today talking about those and not a whole lot of voices.

Out there talking about the necessity and importance of the rural church.

Why the Rural Church Matters

Here's the thing local church is the institution Christ built so I believe there are local churches that all comprise and make up the the Universal Church, but when we talk about local churches The reason the rural church is so important to me is because it doesn't seem to be important to my peers.

If you look at the Southern Baptist Convention their initiative was urban urban. That's where the people are urban. And so what I saw happening over the last I'm gonna say 10 years Was a liquidation of rural churches and the money being gone back into the Association and then the Association would forward its name to plant churches in Detroit or Chicago or at Seattle and Then what I also saw happening Were within my own Southern Baptist Association back when I was in the Southern Baptist Convention was this they would have these Like mission emphasis where we would adopt a church and we would always adopt one in some big city.

So all these little rural churches would you know? Compile their precious small amount of funds and we would send it to Seattle where they bought Crates to store all their musical instruments and their lights set up with and I thought my stars these little country churches You know single room dwellings are Given sacrificially for these people to buy Guitar cases, you know lot boxes to set up a show and I thought this is Ridiculous.

And so what I saw happening was the little rural churches Were struggling and dying out when they died out their buildings were liquidated. The money was shifted to the the urban areas and I said this ain't right and so I Said we've got to do something to save Rural churches and so that's how I got involved.

I just saw churches closing and I tried to help those that were willing to help and didn't want to close.

Initially you started out and we're going to get into what you're doing now. But before we get to what in you do what you're doing now, initially you started out. With churches that were ready to close their doors, but you would step in and just say wait, wait, wait.

I Can help look for a pastor, you know, you want to talk a little bit more. You we don't have to say names and stuff but I know that you were I know you had first-hand experience of of a situation where an association literally Expected a church to just shut down and give the give their resources to the Association.

You're not just saying like you've heard about that like you've experienced. Yes. I've seen it. I've seen it multiple times.

So at one point in time, of course, I did all of this as the pastor of Lee Creek. I was there for 14 years and for some strange reason God gave me this ministry to pastors and churches. I mean, I didn't advertise this I didn't create a Facebook page and you know get people to like it.

These people just started calling me. Pastors would call me churches would call me. And I think part of that was because I had went through a massive church split the church I pastored. Was 13 years old when I came and I was the sixth pastor in 13 years.

So.

Surviving that turmoil. Turning that small struggling church around I had a reputation of okay. Here's a guy that the Lord used to turn a church around so churches in trouble would say hey What did you do at Lee Creek.

And I would say well really it was what God did at Lee Creek and I just happened to be the guy there. But because I had experience I would hear from a pastor.

Hey.

This church was told to give their keys to the Association and he would sell their building the director Would sell their building take all the money in their bank account close it out and he would send that money to the North American Mission Board to plant more churches and I thought yeah, but they're not planting them in the town that these are closing in.

They're planting them somewhere else and So I just told the pastor that told me this I said tell Somebody in that church to call me at the time. Our church had seven former pastors in it. So I was the pastor and there were seven other men that had either been elder or a pastor of other churches some of them missionaries.

They were all kind of in the retirement era of their life. And I thought these guys are perfect. So anytime a church would be told they couldn't find a pastor. Maybe that's time for them to close we would send them a retired pastor just to fill in for a few Sundays until we could find somebody of a more permanent, you know a better fit and so that's what we did and so we had a couple of churches that were on the brink of closure that turned around and they're still functioning today and The problem that I saw was when these churches prior to our getting involved.

When they were on the brink of closure. The the program said you need to change your name. You need to change your worship service. You need to change the whole outlook of your church. Everything needs to be pragmatic and geared toward Generation, whatever and that's the only way you're gonna make it.

And so when I would go into these I'm talking like beautiful 70 year old church buildings and They would have some kind of colored light display wired to the ceiling and I'm like what in the world is that all about?

And they were like, well, we got a young pastor and he said what was needed was, you know better lighting. And so we got all this colored light array and all this and I'm like, you know, you don't need lights.

You need a preacher. You don't need a light up the guy you got you need to get a different guy and he'll light up the congregation and So that's basically our focus has always been not on modernizing the church.

But on just going back to a biblical form of worship in a biblical form of preaching.

A Ministry of Church Revitalization and Pastoral Care

Yeah, amen. So that has led you in now. To a new ministry, which now it's let's see. It's been. Well, not quite a year and a half but almost almost I guess a year and a half right in this this new ministry endeavor.

Yeah a little over a year. Yeah. Yeah.

So tell us tell us a little bit about what you're doing and I you know. This podcast doesn't have a huge reach or whatever. But but I think it's helpful to get it out there what it is that you're doing and some Experiences that you've had in your in your new ministry endeavor here, right?

Well, my ministry is really twofold. I minister to churches in trouble and then I minister to preachers at all stages and. So, I really don't look at myself as a missionary. I really look at myself as somebody that's employed in this ministry.

I know I think this will make sense if I explain it a little differently.

I.

Worked with a church that had lost its pastor due to moral issue and There was no structure there. So that church called me as their interim pastor so I went there not just to fill the pulpit and keep it warm till somebody showed up, but We established a church government.

We adopted some basic laws and stuff of how we're going to operate. We appointed some leadership in the church. We really kind of reestablished the church got in an order and then we found a pastor that took 11 months.

So I have this ministry to church is kind of as an interim for churches in trouble. But at the same time I also am engaged in Working with preachers. So as this ministry is kind of Multifaceted we hold a conference every year for pastors in the summer.

Like you said it used to be held by the church now. It's held by the contributions to my ministry and so we would host last year. I think we had 45 pastors there I want to say it's right 40 or 45 sometimes we've had 50 but we would bring these preachers in put them up in a motel room.

Provide all their meals give them a stack of books to take home. We do this for Thursday Friday Saturday and it gets preachers together it networks them. So they have friends that are like-minded. They have ministry resources available to them this expense is Something that has been on a burden to me.

So I do that. Also have a a way that I help pastors and financial need. We sent pastors home for vacations that couldn't really, you know do that at this time. We we try to give pastors time off if they need it a lot of times if you're in a rule setting it's hard to find somebody that's biblically sound that would come and preach in your church and you didn't have to come back and fix a bunch of stuff when it was over and Then I help place young pastors in churches so it's hard to get young preachers to get a get a foothold and get a place to preach and.

So I try to work with churches that are looking for pastors and try to unite them with a doctrinally sound Bible preaching pastor and most of these churches are small and most of these pastors are Unexperienced so somebody has to start somewhere.

But one thing we can say is we've seen the inexperienced pastor Go to the small church and we've seen them both grow at the same pace. So it's when you figure all that in I'm just one working cog in that entire ministry a.

A number of years ago. I was at a church that wanted to bring in an intentional interim from the state convention. I Looked at the program and all that and man. I just didn't like it. I didn't like it I thought this is this seems like a cookie cutter.

It's a machine approach and on and honestly, and I'm not trying to be rude. But it looked like it looked like a ministry to keep retired pastors continued on in the.

You know.

Church, and I just didn't like it at all. In fact, I got a bad taste in my mouth we talked about the church it ended up getting voted down and all that but And I really hadn't I haven't really even thought about it until Basically about a year and a half ago or so when you kind of talked to me at that point.

You hadn't made the decision but that you kind of talked to me about what you're thinking about doing and my initial thought was like man I don't like a tissue and because I had this I Had the I had the cookie cutter.

Yeah, you know and and then I hear your heart. I see what you're doing. I'm like, well praise God like this is this kind of ideas. It's kind of how it ought to be and the whole point is we use these we use these words like revitalization and replant and all those kind of things and I'm not opposed to those words.

It's just We create the church into a business.

You know.

And it's like what I see you doing is I. See you as a man who loves the local church coming along and what you're trying to do is is help these local churches continue on. Now I.

Mean.

You're not trying to say stay Unhealthy churches just staying healthy. But trying to help churches that maybe have lost their way to. To go forward Eddie. You got any questions about.

Well, I've got I've got a question that'll take us in a little different direction just a second. But but first I might just say this, you know, I think sometimes when we think about kind of the cookie cutter approach to Revitalization or intentional interim is a lot of times those are very pragmatic.

They're kind of the same idea that you were talking about a while ago Harold. Where it's. Okay, we're gonna come in. We're gonna change this we're gonna change this we're gonna change this because obviously what you're doing is not working instead of what is the New Testament say that the church ought to be doing and Let's get the church healthy.

And I think the difference in what you're doing and if you want to I'd love to hear you speak to this a little more. Even but I think the difference in what you're doing and maybe that cookie cutter approach is.

You didn't go in to this the last church you were at saying, okay. On such-and-such a date. I'm leaving and We've got to we've got to make these ten changes. You went in there saying well, we've got to just get the church healthy.

And we'll see how long that takes, you know.

We'll do what needs to be done to get it healthy. All of the preachers that do intentional interims have been to intentional interim training. They've been trained in the process. I wasn't trained in the process as much as I was indoctrinated.

I did it at Lee Creek. I carried it out as a pastor and then I helped other pastors carry it out. So there's no cookie cutter approach because there's no cookie cutter Church. But in the New Testament You're going to find men that do exactly what I do who are not apostles because I'm not an apostle.

I'm an Apollos. I'm a Timothy, you know, I'm. I'm someone that was sent out if you look at Apollos. He goes to Ephesus Priscilla and Aquila straighten out his doctrine. And then the church at Ephesus sends him to the region of a Ki which is Corinth.

With papers to go there and help them in certain areas that they were needed. Then Paul recognizes that and says hey, look, I'm trying to get you know Apollos to come back because you guys still need help.

Churches need outside help especially when they don't have a pastor and. So I think we've gotten away from the idea. We look at each individual local church is some kind of self-sufficient unit. And I think in a lot of ways that it is but if you look at the New Testament model, there were a lot of traveling preachers and we're all afraid of the the evangelist model that we've seen in our lifetime where a guy shows up with five suits and Five sermons and and you know creates a firestorm and leaves it for the pastor to clean up.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about men that went and stayed somewhere a year three years. Paul with Ephesus in three-year time span and he leaves Timothy there behind and then he leaves Titus on the Isle of Crete.

These were men that worked with existing churches to get things straightened out. That's what's missing today. So every church is different. I don't want to just go Somewhere where they need a preacher until they find a pastor.

I want to go somewhere where they're in trouble. And they want to be healthy and all I ask them to do is give me some time. Let me look at what's going on here. Let me see what your biggest needs are.

I can't fix everything. But many times you need to get some of these problems fixed before a pastor can come in and have a long-term ministry. So I'm kind of a sacrificial lamb in the sense that I come in turn the apple cart over make a few people mad.

Get things done and then the pastor can come in and be nice guy and have a honeymoon phase. Because he doesn't have to clean up a church roll with 500 missing members on it. I did that. I had the conversation with grandma about her great about her great-grandkids that hadn't been to church in 20 years and explained to him why we can't just leave them on the church roll because you love them and Somebody has to come in and do that.

And so in the New Testament you see that happening with people that went out that were not Apostles. They didn't have some kind of special authority and that's my problem with the the intentional interim.

These guys come in and basically say, okay, it's my church now, you know, I'm the new sheriff in town. I don't come in that way. I come in and work with the existing church. I do have some authority but that extends as far as the pulpit goes.

I don't boss the church around. I'm not the one reigning ruling elder. I come in and provide leadership and Guys that is so needed and here's the reason why I don't think we need to keep planting churches in North America.

I think we need to fix the churches. We have yeah, the buildings are already there. There's people there. The electrics already been ran and we're we're taking up mission dollars to pour slab. It's two blocks from an existing church.

It's about to close that's ridiculous.

You don't think we need to just need to more affinity based churches.

You're just you're just trying to push my button and get me worked up. No, I'm not for playing Cowboys and Indians. I'm playing motorcycles and outdoors and all that. No, we need churches that preach the gospel.

We've come into this mindset. Like I said of what works. You know what works it's in it. It's all the same whether it's the lighting whether it's the Cowboys whether it's you know, whatever it is. It's all trying to just we got to figure out a way to get people there instead of trusting in the sufficiency of the scriptures.

But you have to take this from a twofold approach if you really care about local churches. You have to care about the church and you have to care about the pastor. And I think that's what makes my ministry.

So unique is the amount of effort that I invest in Individual pastors in the amount of effort that I invest in individual churches and here's why. If we don't build up pastors and strengthen them and provide a network for them.

You're gonna have Bible preaching pastors that never stay at a church that keep getting in and out in and discouraged in and quit. So once you get a church and a pastor together now. The process is we need to maintain that pastor church relationship.

No, no. Group of sheep are gonna rise above their shepherd. If you get a solid shepherd with a flock of sheep, you need to maintain that and so. My biggest problem is I would see good pastors come into our area take over a church.

Get discouraged not have any friends not have any fellowship. Not I mean really kind of be isolated the whole time they're here and the church gets a little upset with them. They get kicked to the curb and now they're they're moving their family again down the road.

We've got to have some pastors stay somewhere and it's easier to stay if you have support system to help you stay there.

Building Pastor Networks and Staying Healthy Together

Well.

Kind of making a so kind of making a little bit of a turn but on this same subject. You mentioned just a while ago that these churches don't need to be all by their self. They need this relationship and so much of that happens through the pastors.

So You know, maybe most of us many of us don't feel like we can put on a Preachers of grace conference maybe or maybe we don't feel that ambitious. But how would you incur encourage guys to to build those relationships?

You really have? You really have an expertise or a gifting around that kind of networking of pastors. And how would you encourage guys to engage in that if they are finding their self kind of isolated?

Hey, here's what I want. I want y 'all to hold that thought. I want y 'all to hold that thought and we're gonna do that in the next episode. We're gonna close this one down and what I want you to do right now Harold is tell people how can they get a hold of you if they want to reach out to you?

They they've heard this episode and they're like I want to talk to that guy more.

How do they get a hold of you. Easiest way to get in touch with me is to email me at pastor Harold at? ATT net. That's pastor Harold at a TT net. Of course. I'm on Facebook as Harold Smith. I'm on Twitter as Harold Smith the Backwoods Baptist and I'm not on those things, but the easiest way to get in touch with me is email.

All right, so get a hold of Harold and join us next week when we're going to be talking going to continue this conversation. We're going to answer that question that that Eddie just asked. Thank you guys for joining us on this episode of the rural church podcast.

Say goodbye Eddie. See you guys next week.