October 20, 2016 Show with David Shedlock on “With Christ in the Voting Booth”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Thursday on this

20th day of October 2016.

Well, did you miss me my listeners my faithful loyal fans?

I have been away for three days You know on business and

God willing that will become fruitful very shortly.

In fact Not only may it in the future become

fruitful, but it is Already proven itself to be a successful

trip.

I will be giving you details in the very near future God willing Regarding a new

program that is being hosted by a friend of mine a longtime friend

for Wow, just a well over 25 years going back to the

early 1980s Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in

Franklin Square.

Who is now retired from that capacity is not retired from ministry.

But he's retired from the capacity of pastor there and he is doing all kinds of things in regard

to evangelism and ministry and itinerant preaching and conference preaching and He

is going to be hosting a weekly 90 -minute program called a visit to the pastor's study.

Every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 30 p .m Eastern Time and you'll be able to

hear that anywhere in the world via the Internet and Those on the Long Island New York area and

actually the New York tri -state area can hear that at 540 a .m.

WL ie radio very unfortunate call letters for a Christian station WL ie

but but the the broadcast that you'll be hearing I'm sure will be a Phenomenal

blessing and this will be starting God willing in mid to late November.

But today I have as my guest for the very first time David J Shedlock,

and he's an adjunct instructor of composition and speech at Marshalltown Community

College in Iowa.

He's a leading contributor and assistant editor of caffeinated thoughts something near and dear to my heart

since I am addicted to coffee and He's also a member of Trinity

Presbyterian Reform Church in Johnston, Iowa.

And we're gonna be discussing his book with Christ in the voting booth.

Obviously a very timely subject.

The.

Subtitle is casting down imaginations.

Before casting your vote.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron David J.

Shedlock.

I.

Considered her a blessing as well.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own Regarding this

topic.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris.

Arn z n at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live

outside of the USA and If you feel compelled to remain anonymous for any reason.

You may do so we will honor your request.

But if if that is not necessary or it is not required to prevent you

from any kind of embarrassment We would appreciate at least knowing your first name city and state and

country of residence.

Well, first of all before we even go into the subject at hand.

I'd like to know a little bit about Marshalltown Community College caffeinated thoughts and also

the Trinity Presbyterian Reformed Church in Johnston, Iowa.

Oh, okay.

I had a stroke in 2012 and Was right

and I hope to get back to teaching on Sunday soon, but I'm not.

I'm not fully recovered yet.

So a

block and

I write five articles a year.

Before the stroke I was writing two or three a week.

Wow.

And on on politics and subjects

and.

What's the first thing that you got.

Oh my church.

Yeah Trinity Presbyterian Reformed Church.

Pastors Mike Erickson and and I've been attending there since about 20 years

exactly 20 years.

Wow.

Yeah, well it's is that in a specific Presbyterian denomination because I've heard of the reformed

Presbyterian Church, but not the Presbyterian Reformed Church.

Acapella is your worship acapella.

Without without musical instruments.

Yeah, okay.

Yes, well just like I guess you're your your brothers in the Reformed Presbyterian Church.

They the Covenanters.

They seem to hold to those two things.

But.

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about that church go to Presbyterian reformed org

Presbyterian reformed org and if you want to know more about the specific church that our guest is a member of go to

Presbyterian reformed org.

Forward slash.

Trinity dash Presbyterian dash reformed dash church forward slash.

But.

Now I'd like to hear something about a briefly your own personal testimony of coming to Christ

and coming to salvation and so on.

And and eventually I want to hear about how you Became very interested in politics.

Teenage and I was one of those

young Christians.

And got saved, you know next week and

I went to for Bible College, I tend to

church central assembly and Don't want to make.

There was and he said you don't have to do that.

You're safe.

Hmm.

Well, praise God, well, how did you start to develop this interest in in politics which eventually led to your writing

of.

With Christ in the voting booth casting down imaginations before casting your

vote.

Oh,

yeah.

Well, I interviewed the Constitution Party's presidential candidate Darrell Castle.

Actually, this is my second.

I did twice.

I did once on the old show and once on the the new show

and.

And I know that you've also been involved in Operation rescue in the past and in the pro -life movement.

Hmm.

Well, I think being reformed myself that we have the best defense for everything.

And I do not want to go overboard there I were.

I recognized fully that we are all from the

curse of the fall and By grace alone we have been saved.

Those of us who are saved and we still carry with us

Sin and weaknesses and fallibility.

So I know that even we who are reformed do have some blind spots to things, but I still

obviously cherish my reformed faith and believe it's the most biblical expression of

Christianity and I Can never even imagine Leaving the

the precious doctrines of sovereign grace that I have come to cherish by his grace.

But.

The the title of the book that you have written very interesting and

Eye -catching and also the subtitle is quite interesting With

Christ in the voting booth and Of course as we have said

that the the subtitle of this book is Is quite

interesting casting down Imaginations before casting your vote if you can explain

that title.

Christ

And.

I.

The book I I tried to do was there are many political

books take political issues and then they did Behind them to

find what the scriptures bear on them.

I did just the

opposite of that.

I Foundation.

Yeah, you have chapter the very chapter of your first chapter.

Is our president elected or selected so I'm

assuming that.

Go ahead.

Yes, and I'm assuming that even though they are selected by God as all things if you are

theologically reformed All things are ordained before the foundation of the world by him.

We still are responsible human beings and we are held

accountable for our actions and for our sins and he uses

us as Instruments on this earth to bring about his will.

Does he not?

Yes.

Of

course,

I don't do.

You pray

for your

family.

We say you pray because you think God's faith

and.

Yes, he

commands us to do certain things and he forbids us from doing other things so

Obviously you cannot no matter how reformed your theology may be.

If you are not obeying God you're disobeying him.

And therefore you are in enmity with him, but the we

actually have a listener question.

We actually have a few already and I think I'll ask this because even though it's kind of early on in the interview I

think I'll ask this anyway, because it may set a tone for the rest of the interview or maybe

a primary issue that will help.

Give a background of your thoughts on a Christian's Involvement in voting.

We have pastor Ron in Waiting River, Long Island, New York.

Who wants to know what is your opinion of a Christian?

Voting for the lesser of two evils.

Or Even being involved in selecting the lesser of two evils

in other areas of life.

And I think that applies to that question now

like we're going first.

Don't care.

Freedom.

But when we're talking about important things

like to make a blanket statement, don't ever do it.

Don't it work.

You must do it.

The truth is Voting for a lesser candidate than the

ideal, right?

Yeah, now I'm assuming that.

Even though when using that phrase Voting for the lesser of two evils.

I'm assuming Judging from what you just said that you would not view the

voting of the lesser of two evil people as An evil act.

In other words You wouldn't view the a Christian voting for an evil person who just happened to be in that

voters mind Less evil than the other candidate.

I'm assuming you don't view that as sin.

He's had a choice between Hitler and Stalin.

Who would you vote for.

And he actually said he'd vote for one of the other and I think there are standards by which

Christians must hold themselves to account Before they cast a vote

again.

It's not.

There are a bunch of other standards.

Yes, so I'm assuming that you are hinting at the fact that a Christian

with a biblically informed and a biblically transformed conscious

Has to follow his conscious on this issue.

Even if it does involve not voting at all or voting or voting for a

candidate.

That.

Barring a modern -day miracle that parallels the parting of the Red Sea.

If he voted for a third party candidate That would not be

in any way a Sinful act even if it may further secure the victory

of the more overtly evil candidate that's running and more popular.

Yes, and I'm assuming and correct me if you disagree with me.

But I'm assuming that a vote for anyone Could be

evil just as other acts that we do that are Not

innately evil, but they could be evil if our motives are improper I mean even the car that you buy

or the clothing that you wear.

If another person did it for different reasons, it would be completely fine and honoring to

God but if you have a Some kind of a selfish or sinful motive in your

voting Then that would be a sin.

Even if it is not innately an evil act.

Would you agree with that?

Yes, I would.

Raise in the park too high to vote.

And I'm not people think.

Are you trying to vote for a path?

Why.

Wasn't certain in general and I

don't raise the bar too high, but I think that the rounded Christian who is

grounded in the Word of God will consider all that they goes into this

system of voting before they vote and.

I.

Think there can be a

sinful.

We actually have another.

Oh by the way.

Pastor Ron in Waiting River, Long Island, New York.

I almost forgot to tell you you have won a free copy of With Christ in the

voting booth casting down imaginations before casting your vote.

Compliments of Calvary Press.

So keep your eye out for that.

It's going to be shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV

bbs .com.

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm who ship out

all our winners Free Bibles books CDs DVDs and anything else.

They may be winning by Submitting questions to our guests.

So we want to thank not only Calvary Press who published Christ in the voting booth and have supplied the free

copies, but we also want to thank CV bbs .com One of our sponsors

who ships out Books and Bibles and other things nearly every single day for us.

And we we could never afford to do that on our own here at iron sharpens iron.

Which obviously is a great benefit to you the listener when you win.

But I have to say I have to give a little caveat myself.

I just have to say that these books that we're giving away Are

only for our United States listeners just because of the fact That the overseas

shipping is astronomical.

We have made Exceptions on a couple of occasions and may continue on rare occasions to

ship out winners Free Bibles and books overseas, but that can't be an ongoing thing

because it's really amazingly expensive.

And we cannot have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service go out of business because they're shipping out all these books

To Europe and the the Orient and everywhere else South America Africa.

But.

We do having said that we do have a listener in Kinross Scotland

Murray who has a question.

He says which Bible references would you have in mind to support the

idea that Christ Wants us in the voting booth at all or he as he called it

the polling booth.

P -o -l -l -i -n -g polling booth.

Do you have any?

And.

We do have Susan in Newville, Pennsylvania who wants to know if you

saw last night's debate between Donald Trump and Hillary

Clinton and what your assessment of it is.

And I understand that you are not promoting either candidate or any candidate.

But I was just curious if you could at least from a technical standpoint provide your

Opinion.

You didn't watch it at all.

I.

Understand the guy who ran

the program Chris Wallace.

Right, well Chris Wallace, I don't I think he is very neutral on I mean I get the sense that he's

conservative and Probably would not want Hillary Clinton in the White House.

But I don't get the the sense that he's a huge supporter of Donald Trump either.

He seems very he said he seems like a very honest and

Unbiased at least in his public persona.

Anyway, he seems unbiased and wants to be a true journalist.

And just report the news as it is and not really Show favoritism.

So you didn't want okay.

Well, by the way, Susan you are getting a free copy of this book as well with Christ in

the voting booth.

So make sure that we have your full mailing address and we will get that out to you.

This book goes through a number of important things.

In fact you even go into some deeply theological and very important issues

that are really in the in the background of this whole

topic to begin with like even the fall of man and Total depravity.

You have a chapter man is fallen and he can't get up if you could explain how that relates to this whole

issue.

Okay, and

we are going

to a

break

right

now.

If

anybody

else

would

like to

join

us on the air.

With a question for our guest our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a r n z e n at gmail .com.

Please in include your first name at least your city and state in your country of

Residence if you live outside of the good old USA.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back.

God willing right after these messages.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in we are having a very timely interview

today.

We are talking about the book with Christ in the voting booth by David J. Shedlock

who is an author and he is also a member of Trinity Presbyterian Reformed Church in Johnston, Iowa and.

We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for David at Chris Arnzen at gmail

.com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And before I go to a couple of other folks who are waiting to have their questions asked and answered

I just want to bring up this very fascinating title for your

Section two of the book government of the sinner by the sinner for the

sinner.

Very interesting way of phrasing that if you could explain further.

And.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about in relationship to this that specific

Subtitle or subtopic of our major theme here the fact that not only

are we sinners, but everybody that we vote for is a sinner and Obviously, there are all

different levels of sin.

There are different levels of whether or not someone has truly

Forsaken specific sins and there are other sins that are more scandalous and more

that impose more danger upon we who are citizens of the United States or

obviously this could involve any citizen of any nation who is voting for their leaders,

but And I don't want to offend you or

your.

You're the individual who wrote the foreword of your book Mike Huckabee who I

have very high regard for Mike Huckabee And agree with a lot of things that he says and

teaches and I especially appreciate his his character and his humility

and So, you know, I have no Question that he is a genuine brother in

Christ and a valuable asset to the church in the media.

But one of the things that I'm concerned about is when a preacher of the gospel is

very active in the public arena and in the media

aggressively supporting someone Like Donald Trump who has a

very scandalous background and also Seems to

be devoid of humility and another very important attributes

Obviously no matter who Mike Huckabee or anybody else would be rallying

behind to support as a candidate for any level of government.

Authority.

They would be Supporting a sinner, but there are certain Sinful

activities that bring reproach upon the church that bring reproach upon

Christians and Especially in in this light it would be in regard to our

discernment when we are aggressively evangelizing the lost and

proclaiming the gospel if we are to.

Support.

Political candidates that.

And it appears that the fervor through which or by which we are doing that is is

basically matched by the same passion and fervor that we have with spreading the gospel.

If that candidate turns out to be an enormous detriment or

Jeopardizes the safety of our nation in some catastrophic way.

Those that have heard our gospel message are going to view us as either being

Horrific in our ability to discern or they will just view us as liars.

How do you how do you respond to that?

And then as I said all due to respect to Mike Huckabee I don't mean to put you in a in an uncomfortable spot.

But even if it wasn't Mike Huckabee if it was somebody else, how would you? handle that issue.

There's

several

things

there and it.

Yeah

now

where

you

made I think

the

line

up

with a

number of

leaders, you

know.

Yes, I would obviously agree with you on that wholeheartedly then the other thing that

is disturbing to me is that there are Christians in the media

Who say very? disparaging And

Insulting and and perhaps even slanderous things even though they're not mentioning people by name.

But.

Really demeaning the character of their brethren in Christ who are voting

for third -party candidates because according to their conscience

They cannot vote for either of the two major candidates in the two major parties.

They are voting for if they are able to where they live.

Voting for a Christian that they know not only has the

moral character of somebody Worthy of an office such as the president

the presidency, but also they agree with their their platform they agree with their

you know, they're the policies that they.

Are.

Basically desiring to set forth as as a President of the United

States and so on.

And I have heard from fellow Christians brothers in Christ in the media

That we are wimpy whiny mamby -pamby bedwetters.

Because we think that Donald Trump is not an Appropriate

candidate for a high and lofty office that is

nicknamed the leader of the free world the president of the United States and.

Do you think that that is a proper way for?

Fellow Christians to be speaking of their brethren in Christ who are following their conscience before God

in this issue.

Wouldn't those who would Be convinced that every vote counts.

Wouldn't their retort be to you that well if everybody or the majority of Christians thought that

way we would have every election for certain lost to somebody who despises Christ

and the Principles he has set forth in his word.

Yes, that's very very astute there.

Now the thing that You are also as we have already said a theologically reformed Christian

as I am I am actually somewhat shocked by brothers in

Christ Who perhaps even on either side of this issue?

Act as if God has somehow gone on vacation from his throne and the future of

America is in our hands.

When.

Yes, we did.

Well, actually, I think I was too young to vote at that time, but.

You you have a very fascinating title that I don't know if this is

anything to do with the difference between a Democracy and a

republic but you have the rule of a thousand tyrants if you could explain that.

Now this is quite a humorous title for a chapter which actually skipped over

accidentally, but people may find find me even more strange than they thought that.

I found it humorous, but The title is whenever I kill somebody it's not my

fault If you could explain that.

Well

killed

56 students in the school.

Was that that the Columbine murders or not?

Sure.

No much earlier.

No, I can't I can't remember right off the top of my

head

here.

Okay, obviously long before my time.

Yeah, my

money.

Planet dynamite.

Interesting.

Right.

Right.

Yeah outside forces his upbringing as you know, all that kind of thing.

Now if you could if you'd like to and if you're able if you could I

mentioned something Just a few moments ago that I mistook as being something

behind the rule of a thousand tyrants.

The many people if not, most people or the your average person thinks that the United States is

a democracy.

But we're really a republic.

Are we not?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, there's a lot of things that.

Have.

Mutated in regard to this country and our government and so on that are

nothing even close to resembling What our father founding father is I'm sure

envisioned.

You have it you have another chapter title that Is also quite.

You're very good at titling chapters.

By the way, we all wear straight jackets.

If you could explain.

Well,

you

know.

You admit you probably have heard the quote by John Adams that our Constitution was

made only for a moral and religious people.

It is wholly inadequate To the government of any other.

What is your opinion about the United States Constitution and

In light of what we see in our nation today.

I mean where you have.

People.

Even the one of our two candidates for presidency Hillary

Clinton Seemingly unashamed or disturbed in any

significant way about her rallying aggressively and enthusiastically behind

a woman's alleged Right to murder her nine -month

-old child.

And and you know partial birth abortion, which I'm one of the things that I really

lament about last night's debate.

Is that Chris Wallace did not ask Hillary Clinton to? describe

in her understanding of what partial birth abortion was.

What what was specifically occurring? during that procedure and.

Because it would have been very interesting to hear what she had to say because it was really

You know Donald Trump was talking about the the baby a nine -month -old baby being ripped from the

the womb.

More accurately he should have said something like, you know stabbed in the skull or ripped apart,

but Hillary Clinton was not put on the spot to actually describe what she believes is going on

in that procedure.

But but as far as the Constitution is concerned and John Adams quote The Kenwood can this

even be an effective guide for us any longer.

And

we have

to go to a

break

right

now if

you'd like to

join

us on the

air.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back after these messages with more discussion of.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Or am I trying to please man.

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in today our guest for the full two hours with an hour to go is David J

Shedlock the author of with Christ in the voting booth.

Our email address if you have a question for David is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

Unless you are compelled to remain anonymous.

We will honor that request.

So having said everything that we were discussing about the nature of man, which not only involves

Everyone in the voting public but every single candidate that is running for any office.

We're all sinners and apart from Christ totally depraved if you're Theologically

reformed like you and I are.

In fact, you're totally depraved whether you're reformed or not.

But we happen to just have a biblical a biblically correct understanding of the nature of

man.

How then should we govern?

Certainly was not.

He did recognize the idea that he's

kind of laid

out this important because.

You know if it's giving the government

government with the least amount of power.

Because a government with power be led by you know,

then your average now you you have two chapters.

That.

Are very much at the heart of Of the the dispute or the

divide between Two groups of patriotic

Even if you want to use the term conservative although Some

within this group one of these groups would not really Want to identify as a

conservative not because they're liberal or leftist, but because they believe that there's nothing

left to conserve.

But and I'm talking about the divide between those that are more classically

conservative and tend to vote Republican and those that are Christians and

libertarians, and I'm not speaking of.

Those.

Libertarians like the the presidential candidate running for the

Libertarian Party Gary Johnson, who is very giddy and excited

about giving women more freedom to kill their babies in the womb and you

know is very excited about giving those who

Want more and more freedom to Be involved in their

homosexual activity or other sexual deviant behavior in any way shape

or form.

Any time anywhere any place and not have any consequences legally

behind that.

You know and even in fact Gary Johnson for according to some libertarian

purists.

Paleo.

Libertarians or the more of the old -school Classic libertarians, they would say that he's not even really libertarian because of

his views on More gun control and and things like that that seem to defy Libertarianism.

But having said that I'm speaking about Those who believe in biblical morality those who

are on fire for the Lord and the gospel they would be just as opposed to

abortion and to the Deviant sexual behaviors that

the the scriptures prohibit and in fact that are even damning but they

have a different understanding on the role of the government in regard to

enforcing certain Laws and so on.

Now the Christian libertarians that I know and respect believe that abortion is

something that the government should be prohibiting because it involves the murder of an innocent

citizen of this country that the they would view the unborn as

humans because they are and These humans have rights and their liberties are being snuffed

out Very often by very selfish parents, but

the the whole issue of these two chapters that you've have government two sizes too small and

government two sizes too big if you could explain those and also give your thoughts on

the differences between classic conservatism and republicanism if you will and the the

Bible -believing Christian libertarians.

Okay,

you

called

him a

what.

I'm

sorry because we have somewhat of a problem with the.

The Google phone connection, but can you repeat that?

Okay,

right

a

lot

of a

lot

of the issue with.

The same -sex marriage.

Which is an oxymoron because it's not a marriage.

You have to redefine what marriage is to even use that term.

And believe that it's an actual thing but The I am

and I'm sure that many Christians would be much more concerned

Over the fact that the government is forcing all of us to recognize

That that union between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is a marriage.

We're more concerned about that Than we are about what people do in the

privacy of their own homes and lives.

You know Do I want a legal restriction against two men who

in their own?

Apostate church.

Have some ceremony where they are declared a husband and wife and

If or if they have some kind of a gathering in their backyard where somebody waves a magic wand over them and and

Says that their husband and wife.

Now obviously as Christians we must be opposed to that kind of behavior because it's

damning and you're not doing any favors to those people by.

By.

Commending them or supporting them or celebrating what they're doing.

You have to if you are a Bible -believing Christian oppose it.

But the whole issue of whether the government has any business in that is is the is entirely a

different question and so.

Would you agree that the issue is more?

How we as Christians are being in many ways and in the

future a lot more ways forced to celebrate this depravity.

Or we will lose our livelihoods perhaps or perhaps even wind up in the future.

Not only with astronomical fines, but go to prison.

Yes, I would agree, but are they not in some sense as both because if you are an enemy

of the gospel and an enemy of These scriptures and what the scriptures mandate aren't you

an enemy of Christ and his people?

I'm sorry.

Can you repeat?

Can you repeat that?

I'm sorry because of the Google phone connection.

It didn't come through very clear.

Yes, right.

Yes, amen men cannot thwart God's sovereign control

over all things and we cannot thwart Hinder or destroy his plans.

I'm sorry.

Can you repeat that?

Yes, the next

three chapters are the most important in the book with that be government too important the separation of

faith and state and is America a Christian nation of those the chapters you're thinking of.

Yes.

Okay, if you could go.

If you could

explain,

yeah,

just to repeat

what

you

said.

Amen, you were saying that even if Hillary Clinton were to be elected God has not left his

throne.

In fact, he raises up evil leaders to judge nations, doesn't

he?

Yeah.

American exceptionalism is another.

Thing that the church has been involved in supporting.

Do you think that is also a dangerous understanding of our role in history and

our significance?

Globally.

Yeah,

there

there is though

there's there seems to be from what we read.

In the writings of our founding fathers and not even

the those that were involved in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, but even

a couple of centuries earlier when this country was first being populated

by Christians there seems to at least be obviously a reverence and

honor for God and Basically

Speaking as if it is a given fact that he exists reigns and

rules and where whereas today There is it just seems

to be a hundred and eighty degrees opposed or on the opposite side of the spectrum in regard to a

Revered a true and genuine reverence for God and his word.

Yeah,

I can you repeat that again because you've faded out with the with the Google phone there.

The church is the only Christian nation as Peter very clearly describes us

a holy priesthood in a royal nation and so on.

The.

The God chapter 12 God is King.

If you could explain further because I Understand that that there that was a

very passionate battle cry if you will by many who

were involved in the War of Independence Commonly known as the Revolutionary War

that there was no king but Christ and Obviously the British throne had a

king and the kings of England and.

Globally.

Have a tendency to take upon themselves The the

attributes of God and and demand some sort of adulation that

would be Reserved only for God if you're a Christian, but if you could comment

about God as king.

And.

I'm assuming by that.

We should also as we have been repeating throughout this interview We should never forget that

he is king no matter what the outcome of what is occurring around us.

What one of the things going back to your comments

on the fact that you don't believe that this nation ever was a Christian

nation and certainly is not now.

Some.

Might cringe when they hear that because they think that you are just turning

over or desiring to see that this nation is just turned over to those who are

enemies of Christ and his word and his gospel and basically

that you would like nothing more than to see us become a

We are already a pluralistic nation, but.

Just that you would acquiesce to the fact that that's a reality and and not be at all disturbed by that.

How do you respond to that?

I'm sorry.

Could you repeat

that

repeat that again?

Yeah I

see

what

you're

saying.

Uh -huh

as

far as one of the most.

Butchered and twisted and misused.

Concepts.

That would be the separation of church and state.

The liberals often take that to mean.

That.

Those who are Christians they and they usually are only referring to Christians.

Uh, and actually they're only referring to conservative Christians Who actually believe in the

inerrancy of the scriptures and so on?

That we have no right to bring our faith into the

political arena that there are a lot of liberals and leftists who think that that is the idea

behind it and they and they also think that that is some kind of a constitutional

Amendment or something, but that was really just Thomas Jefferson about that came from Thomas Jefferson's

trying to Assure Baptists that the

the nation the founding fathers envisioned was not going to establish a Religion

like England had done.

Isn't that really more work and that it wasn't going and that they as Baptists didn't have to fear.

It's actually the opposite of what liberals think that the Baptists did not have to fear the

government thwarting or trying to restrict their Beliefs

and their practices.

Right, so don't you believe that?

Christians their faith is something that has to be a part of.

Everything that they do now, obviously.

If you own a grocery store your understanding of the

the mode and subjects of baptism is not going to be something that has to come into your

Governing a grocery store, but the moral principles certainly do that are commanded in Scripture.

Oh, yeah.

I

yeah,

I can

recall

the

most absurd.

One of the most absurd statements from Bill Clinton years ago when he was

running for office and a woman who was professing to be a Christian was

interviewing him and She asked him about his view of the Bible.

And he said, you know, I love I love the Bible.

The Bible's my my favorite book.

It's the most important book to me.

I cherish it.

But I have to say that I don't have to as president.

Use the Bible and in the teachings in the Bible in my role as the president

now that that's to me absolutely ridiculous because how could you believe something is true and

and especially obviously when it comes to the Bible when that that has to do with your

Your decision making and your understanding of what is right and wrong and and what is moral and immoral

what is good?

And what is evil?

How is that not to be a part of the very fabric of how you govern a nation if you're a

political leader?

But we're going to our final break right now.

And if you'd like to join us on the air.

This is your last opportunity.

We've got a half -hour left.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chri s a r n z e n at gmail .com.

We do have a couple of listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered and we hope to get to you.

Before the program is over if you'd like to join them with questions of your own again.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chris arnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages.

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We have RJ in Westchester County, Long Island

who has a question for our guest.

RJ says that should we ever as.

A.

Christian in leadership such as a pastor or Somebody who

is the president of a well -known parachurch organization?

Publicly endorse any candidate with any kind of

passion or aggression.

Because of the fact that we are watering down what our responsibilities are

and that is to spread the gospel.

Well, I'm assuming

I'm assuming when you say that a pastor should be

nonpartisan in regard to politics.

I'm assuming and I believe that you did say this.

You're not referring to issues like a pastor is supposed to be you know on the

fence regarding the murder of unborn children or The sin of homosexuality or

a number of other things

and because those things transcend Politics these are things that are either commanded or

forbidden in the Bible.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Could you repeat that?

Yeah,

right.

And by the way RJ give us your address and your full mailing address and we will get you a free

copy of The book with Christ in the voting booth by David J. Shedlock.

Isn't that the irony that we are facing is that there are many

Bible -believing Christians.

Even some who share our theology of the doctrines of sovereign grace

reform theology.

Who may even unconsciously and I'm I would certain I would be certain that it would

be unconsciously if they were in our theological camp and genuinely born

again, but they are looking to The elected officials of the

government in a sense since as some kind of a Messiah.

Did I say a mouthful that was true or false.

I'm sorry.

Could you repeat

that if

you.

Yes, of course.

Yes, I want you to become a Christian so you can vote for this reprobate candidate.

It.

Doesn't doesn't make sense.

Now one thing that it I have really gleaned from

my discussions with and viewing and hearing.

Liberals.

Or should I say? Christians or at least professing Christians who are

political Liberals they're they are liberal in their politics not necessarily in the way that they interpret

scripture.

Is that they believe that The the liberal approach

to government and welfare policies and all those kinds of things

Are more representative of the compassion of Christ upon

Those less fortunate than us the poor the

Disabled you could go on and on people who have Greater challenges

than we do in our in our lives.

But those who are on the conservative end of the spectrum Who are

Christians?

Would they be correct in saying? that I Have a passion

and a compassion for those less fortunate Just as much as you do,

but the way that a liberal is envisioning Approaching the subject it really boils down to

stealing from other people to to fund these charitable

Policies and programs and welfare Policies, you know, I mean you because you are forcing

people Against their will to pay for someone else's

Plight being lessened in this life and that is not what the scriptures condone at

all.

I mean it even fosters Not only the the actual stealing but the coveting of

your neighbor's wealth, doesn't it?

Yeah, I

wouldn't

either say

that

it's

always stealing but what what I mean is that that.

Individuals and churches are the ones who are suit to be that are

basically commanded to Provide for the less fortunate and especially amongst the

body of Christ.

But the issue is is that the government's role and because you also have

included in that Evil people in places of authority picking and

choosing what.

Quote -quote.

Charo charitable.

Venues that your money must go to like for instance Planned Parenthood, you know,

I mean we are Supporting with our taxpayer dollars an

organization that is responsible for the murder of countless millions of unborn babies

and An actuality which it's amazing.

Nobody talks about it or very few do but an organization That had as

its goal With by its founder Margaret Sanger and avowed racist

Who it's and it's very easily documented Documentable verifiable that

she was a racist and in fact had Nazis prior to World War two

contributing to her magazine and She wanted the black race and other minority races

Removed from the face of the earth through Sterilization programs and of course, she also

believed in abortion, although it wasn't legal when she was Alive, but

Planned Parenthood that the organization that she founded became the chief Organization

for the murder of unborn children in our country and here we are being forced to contribute to a charity

through our taxes because the government views that as a vital and charity

for the well -being of women.

In other words, they're more worried about losing a portion of their income than they are about unborn children.

Is that what you mean?

Yeah.

Right, obviously.

Go ahead.

Well,

I

I definitely want to before I go to

a couple of other people who are waiting to have their questions.

Asked.

I.

Would like an answer.

Of course, I would like you to give Some of the primary things that you want etched

in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we run out of time.

So before I go to a couple more audience questions I'd like you to

basically summarize those things.

I think I.

By saying we need to vote.

We can't say that affect us.

We don't look to the government to be our savior.

We look to our Lord Jesus and he won't

save us.

We should not fear Hillary Clinton.

We should not feel fear.

What can man do to us, Jesus said.

Amen.

Amen.

We do have an anonymous listener who wants to know that is it wrong for a

Christian to try to stop his brethren in Christ

from Voting for either of the candidates that we have running.

Well for our probes to be more to be more detailed would it be in your opinion wrong for a Christian

to say if you vote for Donald Trump you're sinning because the

man is a danger to our future and and a laughingstock.

And if you vote for Hillary Clinton, you're a you're sinning because You must have some selfish

motivation that her welfare or some other program is benefiting you and

here she is applauding and aggressively trying to secure the legalization

of all kinds of infant infanticide.

Amen.

And that is obviously always.

The truth is that we are to have the scriptures govern all that we say and do.

I do though believe that and I believe I asked you this earlier on

that I Believe that a person can be sinning

in their vote due to the motivation of why they're doing it.

You

could

and we

by

the

way.

Anonymous listener if you.

Provide me your name and mailing address.

You will also get a free copy of Christ with Christ in the voting booth by our guest

David Shedlock and we will Keep your identity anonymous as you have requested,

but just send it to me and I will have that Shipped out to you.

Sorry. I had to cough there.

Yes Yes.

Yes, you can.

I have a question In regard to something that I keep hearing.

That upsets me.

Excuse me.

I'm also my throat is scratchy here.

So I apologize but I keep hearing in.

Defense of.

Rallying behind Donald Trump.

And once again I'm not vilifying everybody that is voting for Donald Trump and I haven't really a

hundred percent made up my mind on whether I'm not Going to vote for Donald Trump.

But.

When I see Christians and pastors say that I'm not

Voting for pastor of the United States or I'm not voting and one pastor in Texas even will say I'm not

Voting for Sunday school teacher of the United States.

I'm voting for a president.

And they will often accompany that With language that would indicate that they

think That somebody who is qualified to be a Sunday school teacher or a pastor

Wouldn't be bold or strong enough.

To.

Adequately fill the role of a pastor.

They somehow have given into the pagan understanding of a Christian man

that he is in some way weaker or Or too much of a

pacifist or he's too loving or whatever the case is To adequately

have such an important role.

I mean even Christian pastors themselves seem to be mocking the requirements.

For those those roles would even a Sunday school teacher Mocking

those requirements if they are being applied to a president.

I just wanted to read To you first Timothy chapter 3 a

portion of that Where Paul is telling Timothy It is a

trustworthy statement.

If any man aspires to be the office to the office of overseer

It is a fine work.

He desires to do an overseer then must be above reproach the husband of one wife temperate

prudent Respectable hospitable able to teach not addicted to wine

or pugnacious but gentle Peaceable free from the love of money.

He must be one who manages his own household Well keeping his children under control with all

dignity.

But if a man does not know how to manage his own household How will the event take care of the Church of God

and not a new convert so that he will not become conceited and fall Into the condemnation incurred by the

devil and he must have a good reputation With those outside the church so

that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Deacons likewise must be men of dignity not double -tongued not addicted to much wine or

fond of assorted gain Holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscious

These men must also be first First be tested and then let them serve as deacons if

they are beyond reproach.

Why on earth would a person who's a Christian?

Especially a Christian leader who is rallying behind a political candidate.

Why would that be weird or ridiculous to insist that those moral character traits are

a part of the life?

And the heart and mind of a person who is going to be the most powerful Leader in government in the

United States.

I don't even understand why that would be mocked or viewed as ridiculous because if you if you

replace church with nation and.

The.

Requirements that Paul is laying out.

I mean, these are just basic moral principles about somebody who's gonna be an overseer over anyone.

My.

Christians are free to vote for Christians.

Is that what you just said?

Yeah.

Now, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Are they free to vote for non -christians?

Well, what I say is.

Obviously, I Well, maybe it's not that obvious, but I believe a man a Christian in good conscience

without sinning could could vote or support a non -christian,

but the the issue is does he have the kind of a character that

is described here by Paul that if God Through his divine

inspiration Had the Holy Bible inerrantly

Handed down to us.

And that's the list of requirements that God thinks are important for somebody to lead.

It just seems to me that even if a man is not a Christian if we are going to aggressively and

enthusiastically and zealously and publicly support him That he should

have at least these requirements.

I'm not talking about those that go into the quiet of the voting booth with the curtains

drawn and With sadness vote for somebody that they are viewing as the lesser of

two evils.

I'm just talking about people who are letting the world know that they think this is the ideal candidate.

That's that's the difference I think

Matters and I

want to thank you so much for being

on the program today.

I'm thoroughly delighted with our discussion and looking forward to a

return.

By you on the program.

If anybody is interested in ordering this book, you can go to Calvary press calm C -a

-l -v -a -r -y press calm.

You can also go to our sponsors Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV for Cumberland Valley

BBS for Bible book service Calm and order it there.

And do you have any contact information that you care to share with our listeners?

So go to Facebook and type in with Christ in the voting booth on Facebook, well, thank you so

much brother I look forward to you returning.

I want to thank all of you who?

Participated in the program with your questions and all of you who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of

Your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for our guests tomorrow on iron sharpens iron radio.

God bless.