Apologia TV - Darren Doane and Stonewall!

Christian Propaganda and the Film *Collision*

Hey, you guys are watching apology a TV where we interview filmmaker Darren. Don't you ever wonder who made all those Kirk Cameron films? Great, right. Darren don't not left behind. He didn't make those.

What's up, y 'all? Welcome back another episode of apology a TV. Jeff the ninjas Luke the bear over there. What up? That's Rebecca the lady. I am the call of the lady the best thing we can figure out.

It's a work best it's appropriate. Yeah. Thank you. Is that Ivy Connerly you're playing actually with with the what's chocolate?

No, the Count Chocula as it says on my.

Chocolate, baby. Yeah, I love chocolate. We haven't had him on a long time. I've tried. Yeah, he's he's got bigger bigger and better things to do apparently obviously apparently I'll be talking about a little bit about what he's doing and a person.

He's doing it with yeah. So hey, let me tell you something. I was a pastor Chaplain at a hospital for four years as a drug and alcohol rehab and You know this every single month people were there for about 30 days.

And so just unbelievers just come into this place to detox and it was a Christian program I was in charge of and so I would get these people for 30 days and you know. Most of them were you know high as a kite and coming into the room and others were just on the tail end of stuff.

And people come into Christ, but what I made sure that I did every single month was I played. As an opportunity to springboard into a larger discussion. I played one of my favorite documentary films, and what was that?

I don't know tell me collision. Oh collision collision. Yes, sir. Yes, sir Collision one of my favorite documentary films ever I mean just absolutely an amazing film the content is amazing the conversations what it captures is awesome.

And this film I want to say I'm gonna play the trailer here in a second this film actually Led to so many gospel conversations and so many people coming to Christ. I I don't know how to tell you really the impact of this film, but I'm going to play for right now.

This is a film by Darren Doan. It is called collision and one of my favorite documentaries again. It's a follows Douglas Wilson and Christopher Hitchens on a debate tour and here you go.

Imagine there's no heaven above us all right. No hell below us. Above us only sky all right. Imagine. There's no heaven. I want you to fix this. There's no heaven. There's no hell below us. Above us only sky.

What does that mean?

Because I think the teachings of Christianity are immoral. Saying you must love someone who you also must fear that's to say a supreme being. He thinks Jesus Christ was a real person was the Son of God was crucified dead and buried.

Self-conscious about it and rose again from the dead so I know where I am with him. Christopher Hitchens is a.

Public intellectual. Which is to say he's the kind of intellectual who matters.

Abilities. He's quick on his feet. You put it modestly, but it is a fantastically arrogant claim. Isn't it rather the case that with God anything is permissible. I?

Want you to give me the evidence for an objective moral standard That governs all of us, and you can't appeal to any Anything because those conflict. You can't appeal to the general consensus because those differ over time.

You you haven't given any evidence. Whatever for all your condemnations of this that the other thing.

By what standard do you condemn any action. There you go collision?

And that was a film by Darren Doan. Really highly recommend that to you guys. It's an older one. It came out a couple years ago. But it is well worth your time. One of my favorite documentaries, and we actually have very special guests today.

Don't we Luke. Yes, Rebecca. Are you excited? I am I'm surprised you didn't like have like a bear's roar ready because you're so thrilled. I'm not Marcus. Yeah Marcus.

But I'm not like Marcus.

He's a little ginger. It was a bit fanboy, baby, no. Just a little bit. He's wearing his I heart. Darren don't sure. Yeah, yes, don't is actually Douglas Wilson's friend right boy. He's done boy. He's Doug's bud and actually Darren don't as I hear a big fanboy of Baptist theology.

That's what I heard. He just loves it. Yeah.

That was the introduction.

Apology a TV man.

Wow, that was that was some strange rhetoric there. It was like I was ready for the big collision the big collision here. It is and it was like and loves Baptist theology. It's like what? And I'm caught off guard and I'm caught off guard.

I actually do look well. I actually do love that. I mean I I I was you know, I I think I had you know, I think at least the first five or six years of My walk was was morning and in a Baptist world. So I I very much relate, you know and love all my Baptist brethren.

So but maybe we can talk about that later. So yeah, so I'm a I'm a big fan of Baptists. Good good.

Filmmaking as Christian Propaganda

So so Darren you are to my mind one of the greatest Christian filmmakers. We're just filmmakers and you happen to be a Christian as well and I and I love what you do and I actually. Would I be wrong in saying that a lot of what you do is Christian propaganda?

Yeah, I I hope so. There you go. Good. I'm glad I'm glad that. Now explain that though because because I mean that that would that can have a slant sometimes is a very negative thing propaganda. But when we talk about what you do, not only is it high quality?

Not only is a good story. But it's it really is telling a larger story and it really is Christian Propaganda. Talk about that from your perspective as a Christian and as a director. What. What's behind all that your films have a very focused Goal and aim.

What tell us about it?

Well, I mean I I think I would back up first mean that was a very kind and gracious statement, you know, but you went about but it's it's interesting because when I when when I made collision. You know this I forget how many years ago it was now.

But we we didn't have what we have now as far as how how the internet works and just different ways of people. Connecting like it was it was still it was still different. And I remember we had an opportunity to just do what I thought was cool at the time just a direct release like with with with Amazon and.

So there really wasn't any hype when when when we put it out. It was kind of we just we made the movie we put it out and If we can all put our minds, you know kind of back, you know. However many years ago it was and I remember that the first reviews that started coming in was just like this movies horrible what and it was and and and all the reviews were sort of coming in real time on Amazon and it was like Wow, I just made the worst movie.

Hang on to that. I want to hear the rest of the story coming into a commercial break right now.

Already, okay. Well, I get this. Well, that's that's a great place to leave up. Yeah, I made the worst movie ever.

So, thank you guys. Apology in TV. You're right back guys of a Darren Doan talking more about the film collision and a lot more. Be right back.

Hi, this is Warner with apology radio. I want to ask for y 'all good friends of ours to go on and click that button there and become my friends on the book face a Facebook backslash apology radio become my friend on YouTube that there twerker the twerker I want if I want to talk to you on the twerking and Send me out a twerk.

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Audience Response to *Collision* and the First Reviews

So we left that segment Abruptly a little bit with Darren talking about the first reviews coming in real time for What I thought was one of the greatest documentaries ever. There were girls kind of everybody thought everybody views coming in is the worst film ever.

So Darren.

How.

Did things work out from there? Because that's that's actually incredible to me.

Well, I mean the You know, I'm it was it was so fascinating because one on the one hand it was through Amazon and they had this real-time click count every time somebody bought one and. And a little dinger goes off and it just kept dinging and dinging and I was like, this is crazy I mean we I mean it was just it was people I kept thinking like someone bought it and I don't know who that person Is and then after about 50, I was like, well, I have less than 50 friends.

So I knew at that point it was it was going to more than you know people that that I actually knew at that time and. But the reviews were like this this is just horrible. This sucks. This guy doesn't know how to make a film.

This guy seems to want to be on his knees the whole time shooting up into people's noses. It's the worst audio mix the sound the music the coloring it. This is amateur hour and I remember thinking like Wow, like I really just made a piece of junk and this is this is really weird because it's one of those sort of Like for most of my career I'd make projects for other people.

So when you're working with a band or a persona, you know, you're you're working off of their cool points so if I make a cool video for a cool band it's because they're cool and Collision was one of the first things where I was like, I'm gonna do what I want to do I'm gonna do that first like I'm gonna follow my heart.

I'm gonna do what I think I'm passionate about, you know, and Which you know, so I was really into it. I remember when the movie was done I was like this is the kind of movie that I would love to watch and all of a sudden the reviews came in and I was like Oh, no I was like and I remember I I mean I think I was I think I was depressed for a long time and then and then we got and then and then and then we Got invited someone said hey, we have an opportunity.

This is this work gets really sad and pathetic and I'll I'll send you a picture. It'll make this episode great. We got invited to there was some new Christian Book festival something in Texas somewhere.

Okay, and they had planned on about ten to fifteen thousand people attending. They said hey, do you want a premier collision here? We're like, yes and so we go there and we got to this ballroom and they had like 8 ,000 seats set up was like this is wow.

This is crazy that the screen there and stuff and so throughout the day I'm walking around and I'm just not seeing anybody at the convention center and I'm like, wow, this is this is this is really weird, you know, and and then Cut to the chase that night.

There's like 30 people in this room with like 8 ,000 seats and I remember thinking Even though it's 30 people. I should try to get them all to move up towards the front. So I can maybe get a picture so it looks like people are watching the movie and if it's the right way It would look like people are watching.

I mean so it was it was literally it was me Doug Wilson and Christopher Hitchens and like 30 people in this in the room that had like I don't know thousands of seats and it was. And I remember just thinking like yeah, okay time time to move on and then I remember I Really didn't think much about it.

I mean to to be honest with you I was like, yeah, I kind of made a movie some people, you know I I thought it was cool, but I was like this thing just this you know This this this was a flop and it wasn't till years later I actually started meeting people who were talking about it as the internet really became a part of people's lives and All of a sudden, you know, but it wasn't until probably a year ago.

Maybe two years ago year and a half ago where people started like saying like hey, I really like that movie. So I had no idea people liked it. That's that's a that's a true story Wow.

You know, you know, it's interesting Darren when I would show it I'm not sure if I owe you anything for this and your royalties or anything like that's what the talk after the show. No, I showed it. No one else paid us for it.

Okay. I showed it once a month. I like to I like to give everybody in this hospital an opportunity to engage with me and try to refute you know the Christian worldview and Present that as an opportunity to give them the gospel and this film Offered me every month the opportunity to have a springboard and I got to tell you Darren Just just just to offer you some encouragement just about the film and and I think righteous propaganda this this this film Captured the attention of everybody in every room that I played it in the entire time.

Which is it honestly a difficult thing to do with a bunch of drug addicts who are generally? Detoxing on on on medication and every or coming in completely high. It was it was a powerful.

Those are my people that doesn't surprise me because those yeah, those yeah, those are my people that now that story I buy.

That's your demographic, right?

Methods, you know. And like skater punks. Yes, right on.

Stonewall, Long-Term Vision, and Being a Kingdom Troublemaker

So, okay. So this is I'm gonna lead into sort of like a discussion about the overall framework and worldview that you're operating on. Yeah, because you do something Darren that is different. You do something different in terms of you're not putting out crap and You're not you're not telling bad stories and you're everything you're doing.

I think is Edgy it's trying to actually outdo the unbelievers and Really beat them at their own ground and that's something that's that's different in the area of a Christian film because most Christian films are just Just they're just awful and and I don't watch them.

Okay, and and so that's how I appreciate that but there's a reason why but but let me just before we get to that I want to this would be a perfect springboard. You have a new film coming out called Stonewall and I Got chills up and down my body when I saw this first trailer.

This is Stonewall Darren's new film coming out soon.

So Doug's got to be brave to go into that kind of thing. As a gay instructor as an atheist, I mean, I don't think we ever had a security plan a security plan for Doug before.

It's an assertion by raw power by claiming victimhood.

Rebellion charges, you're a racist you're a sexist.

And you're anti-gay racist sexist anti-gay Douglas Wilson go away.

Right, and it's stated in such a way as to rhyme. This is not the first time I run into the tolerance buzzsaw.

Powerful powerful and this this is what I want to say Darren. Yeah, I know man. I'll tell you what. Okay, so Darren.

Listen, it's scary. Just listening to it. Whoa. This is just like sinister for yeah.

And I and I saw that the original videos and they came out and so when you put all this together I mean it just brought chills, but I missed something Darren. I missed something and that was that banner in the background.

I never saw that and where it says the queer shall inherit the earth and that Segues perfectly into a description of Christian propaganda and what you're doing with a long-term vision in the world. You have a view of the world.

That's different. You have a view of the world. That has Christians living in it and the unrighteous being uprooted from it. You have a long-term vision for the future, which I think affects what you're doing in your films and where you're aiming.

I mean, I think it's good to say the queer shall inherit the earth is the is that's the antithesis really of our worldview. It's the meek shall inherit the earth that God gives us the world.

Right, right now I could go on a tangent, but are we up against a hard break?

Well again, we got about 30 seconds before a break. So I'd love to hear what you just have to say. Much more time. This is the terrible thing about being on a network. You got these short segments, but no, it's fine.

Just give me a burst about your long-term vision.

Well, look, I mean, I'm I'm a traitor, you know, I was you know, I spent the first 25 years of my life. You know not as a Christian, so I'm a traitor and that's that's that's the coolest thing in the entire world to me I was.

I came from a you know, the the world system. I was in was a you know, punk rock, you know. Complete disobedience, you know. You know. Mind frame. And so when I when I became a Christian it was like, you know what?

I mean. It was it was clear that I was still going to be disobedient. And now I was just going to be disruptive to the side that I left and hang there.

Hang there, I'm gonna hear the rest of the story. Apology a TV. Guys be right back with Darren Doan. Exciting show guys. What's up, guys? This is Jeff Durbin with apology a TV when I encourage you to check out our new show on the NRB Network and may God bless you with an abundance of goats for doing so.

What wrong show?

Sorry, that's our boy IV.

Hey, he's coming out soon, isn't he supposed to be. We're gonna do something with him soon there knows IV. Yeah, he does.

Know IV IV. Hey D. I was just wondering I dropped my towel last week a Week now if you could just get that wet spot behind my neck. He's always got his towel. That's great, yeah, that's my alarm didn't go off this morning.

It's the weirdest thing.

We're learning all kinds of stuff. Oh, yeah.

Any dirt on Marcus, yeah.

Me and Marty's gonna reconnect. Last last I heard he was in some like New Covenant non-eating meat something.

He's making fun of your vegetarians and.

And the only thing I could think was well. Then he must have met a girl who was vegan or vegetarian or something like is like that's cool. If that's what you got to do to get married like I'm in like.

You gotta do it.

Gotta be you. That's the Chris.

That's that's that's that's pure Chris Rock, right? It's like if if you're your spouse is a crack addict, you better be a crack addict going to work.

So.

Okay, so yeah, I'm actually and by the way, I Actually, you know, I don't make fun of Marcus that much. I mean I do but but but I I only want to give credit where credit is due. And we actually had a phenomenal Campaign when we were doing unstoppable with Kirk Cameron and we were all in the we and we were all in the office and The Facebook got shut down and I get this phone call and everyone's like they shut down Facebook YouTube it's all been shut down and I got the PR team from Sony calling and they're all like we're gonna We're gonna lay into them We're gonna go.

And I'm sitting in the office and and then mark Marcus kind of peaks his head out and he goes You should just make that the story that they shut you down.

Yeah.

Hmm, but yeah, and it was like I Mean and I so one could argue since this is apology or radio. We like to argue and debate. One could argue that the success of unstoppable Had a lot to do with Marcus opening his mouth.

Oh.

That's that's a that's a big boost for why we hired him. That's that's why we that's why he's our producer and director. Yeah, he just said some good stuff about you dude. So yeah, so so I'll just throw that out there.

So there yeah. He's like that's and that's all you're gonna get. That's it. It's only happening one time here.

That's all you get but I'm gonna beat that boy when it comes to me when I see him face to face. Okay, so Darren we were talking about how to make him choose. I will make him chew his own arm off when I get done.

He's gonna eat his arm.

So you come to Christ and You're calling yourself a rebel and I and I think that's that's actually interesting because I think that in many ways in many respects. Yes. Because what you produce what you're coming up with what you're putting out into the world is very rebellious.

Against our current culture and Darren, let's be honest It is also the worldview you put forth and what you're actually putting into the world your art your media is actually Rebellious to the Christian the common Christian claim about the future.

There's so much that you have invested in the future. Talk about that.

Well, I mean.

There's like there's like three questions in there. Yeah, there was. Yeah, that's how we do it here at apology. We make it very hard.

No, no. No, it's it's it's nice. Usually when I'm face to face with people. It's it's I'm quicker, you know, but One I would say that in a lot of ways my art is actually still very childish, but that's okay in in B because I think God's taking me on my own narrative in regards to that.

I loved punk rock. I love independent stuff. I loved dirty fanzines and people cutting up making photocopies doing black and white pictures all that stuff and so I grew up on all that punk rock stuff and so.

For me those are the things that still really inspire me people who say even hip-hop inspires because it's just just give me a microphone. Just give me a microphone. Give me a beatbox and I'll go those are the things but they're still very childish.

And I think we need to grow from those things and I think we will get there I think other people will do that. But I think in my own journey, I'm doing punk rock. I'm doing I don't care. Give me a microphone.

Give me a camera. We'll just go we'll just do this and and and we'll shoot it so I think I'm doing the equivalent of kind of a dirty fanzine because my My work is rough and it is it's very rough around every the edges.

It's not polished. But the same thing when I when I saw punk bands take the stage and play three chords. But they played those three chords like they really meant it and so for me I've only got three chords kind of as a filmmaker.

But I love those three chords and I just keep pushing them and pushing them and pushing them. Yes, then in regards to being and then in regards of being just defiant I love being defiant, but now I get to be defiant for the kingdom against, you know.

Anyone that kind of comes against that kingdom? Yeah, and that's to me. That's really really fun. I grew up getting in fights I grew up with an older brother that just beat the tar out of me, you know all the time so I don't mind getting punched in the face and like.

You know, so and anything minus getting and you know, actually physically beaten is just easy and fun. So it's fun to be a troublemaker. I pray for my kids every night, you know, I say hey Lord, you know.

Make these kids troublemakers. I want these kids to be troublemakers for For the bad guys and that comes into what you were saying. I have a long-term view I don't believe this world's coming to an end anytime soon.

And so the best thing to do is is is to be a troublemaker that godly troublemakers, man.

You're preaching my sermon Darren. I like you Darren. I like Like you too. This is this is exciting. You're you're preaching my sermon brother. That's good. Hey, let's do this. Let's let's do this. We're gonna have more with Darren in the after show in just a moment.

If you'll join us Darren We want to talk more about Stonewall. Oh, yeah. And this is this is really important. I'm gonna make sure everyone can hear this. We're gonna have a special. We just cut this deal with Darren right now and actually the break.

We're gonna have a special for apology or radio listeners for a 24-hour period. Apology or radio listeners only Will be able to get the pass to watch Stonewall the film in a 24-hour period. You have a code.

We'll figure this out to where apology or radios all access Members are gonna get a key to watch the film before anybody else does. We're gonna do that for you guys. To get you the opportunity to see Darren's film.

That I mean, we're gonna play more of these trailers in a moment. That just gives me chills. So Darren don't the film is Stonewall. You can go over to apology or radio .com. You can get the all-access.

You can check out more with Darren right here at apology a TV in our after show. We're gonna talk more about Stonewall more about more about the biblical worldview. Darren said something a moment ago.

He said that he anticipates being being around for a while longer that the world's not coming to an end anytime soon. That's what we believe that's straight Post Mill, baby. And that's the kingdom of God is victorious.

Jesus putting his enemies on his feet. Darren is one of those dudes. He's one of those brothers. That's a godly troublemaker. That's getting in the face of the culture with the gospel and Is causing a ruckus so we'll be back in the after show with Darren Doan.

This is apology a TV. That's Rebecca the lady.

I am.

We'll be back we'll be back. The conversation is going to continue at apology or radio .com. That's we're gonna have our after show. We're gonna have more content more Conversations some really great stuff.

You go over there to get it at apology or radio .com by becoming all access. Go check it out.