Conversation with the author of "The Shack"

CARM

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00:46

Paul Young. I hope I'm getting... Is there a zoom out? Yeah, just hit the button.

00:52

So Jesus was on the cross, the second person of the Trinity is the one who became incarnate. Only the Son, not the

00:59

Father. But it does say that God the Father was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. Was the

01:05

Father crucified? When you're dealing with the Trinity, you can't have Neo -Aryanism, right?

01:11

You can't have... Was the Father crucified? Was Jesus still God when he was hanging on the cross? He was always

01:16

God when he was incarnate. And we're agreeing. I still don't understand the answer to my question.

01:22

Do you think everybody is forgiven? If everybody's sins are forgiven, that's called universalism.

01:32

So, here's what I affirm. That Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind.

01:37

Especially of believers. That he died once for all. That seems absolutely fair.

01:43

Did Jesus atone for and remove the sin and cancel out the certificate of debt? Colossians 2 .14

01:49

says he canceled out the certificate of debt. For all mankind? Did he cancel it out for everybody who ever lived? Absolutely.

01:55

So then why would anybody go to hell if the certificate of debt is canceled? Because human beings, we deserve the respect that allows us to say no to relationship forever.

02:05

They take them all. So, it's not the issue that what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit accomplished. Did not actually accomplish it.

02:13

The issue is whether we want to participate in the relationship that they accomplished or not.

02:19

And human beings could say forever no to that relationship.

02:25

And that would be hell. It's always nice to have a category to which you fall.

02:30

That's what we theologians do. That's what we apologists do. But what you're teaching is contradictory to Scripture.

02:37

Well, there's a whole history of church theologians that would disagree with you. You know what? I don't go with the history of church theologians.

02:43

I go with the Scriptures. The Bible says... There's a whole group of theologians that disagree with you.

02:50

I don't care. I don't debate any theologian on these issues. The Bible says that the Father cannot be seen.

02:56

He dwells in unapproachable light. Why would you use fiction and put the very words of God in his mouth?

03:02

Why would you do that? And you don't have to mix Scripture and the Prophets. The Father cannot be seen.

03:08

Do you know that everything you say is absolutely 100 % accurate? Yes. No, no, no.

03:14

Do you believe that everything that you say as a human being is 100 % accurate?

03:21

It's not everything. Okay. So there are things that you say that are putting words into God's mouth that are probably inaccurate.

03:28

Jesus says that's in the Father, John 6, 46. Is that true? 1 Timothy 6, 16.

03:35

He dwells in unapproachable light. No man has seen or can see. Jesus Christ was the Savior of all mankind.

03:41

Yes, but he did not save those who were in hell. To be the Savior of all mankind means not just to do.

03:49

I've got a challenge on the paper for a public debate. You think so?