Q+a 18.4.86 — George Verwer

Now, in many ways, I'd love to just give you, you know, a red-hot, hopefully, message from the word or exhortation, but I really believe it is important, as we go together as a fellowship, that people have an opportunity to ask questions.

I know that if in the early days of the Lagos, we hadn't had those question-and-answer sessions, you know, I just don't know what would have happened, because people were really bottling things up. And they weren't developing, some of them weren't developing an ability to express themselves.

And sometimes I feel in OM, there's a lot of misunderstanding, simply because people won't bring things out into the open. We have an enormous communications problem here in these two Bromley teams. We can never get anybody together.

And if we move into a state of emergency on these two teams, and some people think that that might be happening, we're going to make some very big changes, and there will be far, far stiffer requirements for people to be attending meetings.

Because otherwise, you know, how can we get the communications? But one of the ways we're overcoming that is, hopefully, through cassette tapes. Another way, of course, is we have personal fellowship with one another, and hopefully some of that is positive.

I'm sure it is. But I don't think most of us realize just how difficult it is sometimes to go forward in a spiritual work when there's not enough communication. So I'm opening the door for you to ask anything you want.

I leave again next Wednesday. Tour of Germany and Denmark. I am not the only person that can answer questions. Of course, you can ask questions of other leaders. But sometimes on the international side, especially having just come out of three days of intensive discussions with the leaders representing the whole world, I can answer some questions.

Europe, the whole work in Europe, is at one of its biggest crossroads that I've known it to be in many, many, many years. And we can't always announce everything that's happening because we don't even know.

But believe me, big things are happening around Operation Mobilization. And in some ways, we need to increase our prayers for one another. But there are things, lots of things, that can be known if people just ask.

If they don't ask, of course, they won't find out. Now, who's got the courage for the first question? Andrew.

Long-Term Singles, Personal Freedom, and Life in OM

Something about thinking of long-term people and something about changing their lifestyle. Now, maybe I'll pick that up because I've been thinking about it myself.

But feel free to say. Long-term people, lifestyle, I'm not exactly sure. I think I may know what you're driving at. Does anyone can clarify what I may have said on Tuesday about that? Yeah. There's been a lot of discussion on this subject, actually, for about a decade.

And we've been trying. It is already policy. This is good for you to know. It is already policy, NOM, that provision be made for longer-term single people just as provision is made for married couples and children.

And believe me, if you knew the way single people were living, I'm speaking generally after the first year or two. Ten years ago, in comparison to today, you would understand the progress that's been made.

If you only know today, you may not feel we're making a lot of progress. But quite a few single people in NOM have had their own small flats or accommodation where they could, you know, live their own lifestyle.

Naturally, when people first come into OM, there is pressure to conform. We know that. If you go in the army, there's going to be pressure to conform. I don't think there'll ever be an answer between us wanting people to be creative, wanting people to have freedom, wanting people to think their own thoughts, to develop their own lifestyle, and trying to weld a group of people as a fighting force for God.

If you can find a simple answer to that, maybe you can write to me. We're trying to do both. We have different situations in OM. We have the truck team moving out in India. If all the Indian brothers suddenly get a burden about creativity, having their own flat, whatever, to develop their singleness, we're going to have an interesting kind of truck team.

Fifteen brothers, you know, loaded in the back of one of these old lorries, down the road to reach another hundred thousand people with the word of God. I mean, they are more clearly sort of the, what OM is sometimes thought of, right?

But if we're going to have those kind of teams in India, and that work has been in jeopardy at times, I can assure you, then we've got to have other people who are in sort of a permanent situation. You know, the Steve Hartz, who came in as an older single man, way back in the early 60s, and set up his little bed in his office.

He's only moved out of his office in the past few years. We asked him to move out 15 years ago, or something like that. No, no, I remember visiting the headquarters in Switzerland, where in 64, I think it was, maybe before that, I think it was actually 63, absolutely packed into this house.

I was looking for the boys' dorm, and it was up in the attic. And there Steve Hart was, just in the corner, tucked around a beam, you know. I think he had his office and his bed in the same place. His office must have been downstairs.

See, Steve now has his own flat, or his own little place where he's living. So, you know, this has definitely changed, and I think it's linked with our acknowledgement of all the potential God has given people to be creative, and that we are free.

We are an army, but for every illustration in the New Testament about being an army, there are ten other comparisons. These are comparisons that are not taken literally, otherwise I was going to give you all machine guns and hand grenades.

Some of you, I know, have an inkling in that direction, but I hope not many. But we feel, and have felt for a long time, that single people need greater respect. I need to give that message on esteeming singles.

We got the esteeming women's message. On the other hand, you know, whether we're single or married, we need to be careful we don't just get into our own selfish ego trip, doing our own thing, pushing our own way.

And it's difficult. So we're working on this. The personnel committee has been discussing this. I think a majority of leaders in OM now lean toward also some type of, at least certainly a lot of freedom in regard to pensions.

Pensions, Health Insurance, and Legal Responsibilities

The present philosophy about pensions, they are allowed within OM, but it is up to you, and the money has got to be above this minimum support, which we sometimes call full support, that most people are living on.

Now once you're past your second year in OM, your support is supposed to be, according to the new policy, three years old, what it's actually costing you to live. You're supposed to be calculating that, including everything.

Very difficult. And that is, of course, what your support is. So if you're paying into some pension program, some people are, that has to be, you know, considered as part of the money you're paying in.

Those of you from Canada have received one of the most interesting letters in OM's history from David Lundy just a couple of days ago. David and I were on the phone yesterday trying to decide whether this has gone across the barrier or not.

But he does say in his letter, David Lundy, that this is a voluntary thing. And ultimately, through all the discussion about pension, another more complex problem is health insurance. In this country that is not such a problem, though all of you British longer term people have received this huge manuscript from Tony Kirker.

Is that circulated yet? Maybe only I've seen it. But it's coming because they've had a lot of negotiation with income tax people, with the health people, as to exactly what are the legal regulations. And I think you need to understand, OM has been forced into certain paths by the laws of particular countries.

We cannot go against the law in Germany, Sweden, France, I guess all the countries. There are strong laws, even in the United States now. Everybody, I've just got another pack that thick from Steve Hart, about all the things that Americans are required to do, income tax, social security.

For the first time in OM's history, the people in the New Jersey office are paying social security, and so they're in that scheme. It's by law. And they also have some kind of special form of health insurance.

We're subject to boards of directors. They think differently. I don't think they've all read Anthony Norris Groves yet, but they think a little differently on some of these issues. So it is complex, and we're discovering that the health insurance in New Jersey is coming less than the medical bills.

So this is an interesting little factor. I mean, who could ever predict 20 years ago, much less 100 years ago, that we would have the kind of thing we have today in terms of medical things, where a person can go into hospital, a middle earner can go into hospital, and he will come out bankrupt.

He'll come out bankrupt. In fact, I have one lady writing me about every other month, who's got $150 ,000 worth in debts, debts for medical, and she just, you know, she's about to have a nervous breakdown.

Now, I know there are ways also in the states now for the poor to get some help, and I don't pretend to be an authority on that. So we're wrestling with these things. Germany has a health insurance scheme, and now there's talk that the Germans have launched a health insurance scheme that can cover people of other nationalities, and the Americans are investigating it very quickly, as the Americans have the most expensive wild health situation.

And often pensions and everything connected with that is linked with all that happens to people when they're older. You're getting people that are retiring at 65 years of age and are living to 95. That's 30 years of your life.

How many of you are not yet 30? A lot of you. 30 years of your life in retirement. So that's a complex thing, if people are not giving any thought to that. So it is good to read, it is good to study, and I believe different people are going to be led in different ways, and somehow within OM we'll have to make provision for that.

Well, on and on we could go. Once we get down that road, it's a long road, but maybe we'll end there and open for a different question. Yes? What about STL? Were there any decisions made like that? Yes.

STL's Future Within Operation Mobilization

I was aware after my report on Tuesday night that I didn't say anything about STL. But as I mentioned, I only covered about half the subjects. I think the main thing, and this may not mean much to some, but I think the main thing is that there is a strong, at least at this stage, vote of confidence from the area leaders that we want to continue with the ministry of STL as a vital part of Operation Mobilization.

There's also a strong agreement that STL must continue forward within the basic policies of Operation Mobilization and that we're not going to break all kinds of policies. For instance, paying salaries.

This is a thing that's been in a big discussion because some people have said, well, look, if we pay top salaries, we can get the professionals in here that are going to really revolutionize this. Number one, we're not convinced that that will actually work.

An awful lot of secular companies paying very big salaries are in a tremendous state of affairs right now, if you follow secular companies. Plus, we just, you know, we cannot do that and not do that in other parts of OM.

I mean, if anywhere we want to do that is out in India. I mean, if we can get people in there that could be such an enormous help at salaries of one-fifth of what we pay here and just move, seemingly move the work forward.

Of course, as we got into this a little bit in the past, we've discovered the unbelievable complexity. And so we believe that people must come into STL just like the rest of OM with a call of God. And OM has ample proof that we can see a high number of professional, committed, dedicated, whatever word you want to use, people come into this, just as CLC and WEC and OMF and China Inland Mission, that's the same.

Other groups all need professional people to carry on their ministry. We're making a mistake if we think that STL needs professionals, the rest of OM, well, any old amateur who comes along, I mean, the ships, CAO.

We need highly trained professional people in every aspect of OM because we're dealing with people's lives. You're dealing with sales, that's very important. You may be dealing with competition, very important.

In other places, we're dealing with people's lives. I consider that fairly important. We need professional drivers for those Indian teams. We haven't been able to find them, we've had a few, so we've had to start an intensive driver's training program and train men to be drivers.

That hasn't been always the best, but it has accomplished an awful lot in 20 years. We need professional people to come into OM, including STL, but at the same time, we need to train people up. We want to go both.

Don't get into the either or. We're willing to bring people in from the outside. One of the men we're praying about to become your managing director is coming in from outside of OM. We're open to that, but at the same time, we need to train people up within the work.

There are people that may come here from the ships, that may come here who've been on OM before and now want to get back into OM. So I sense there's a real commitment from the area level to press forward.

We went through pages of material from Alistair and then quite a few pages from Mike Wheat. We realize that we haven't got the quick, easy answers. We didn't have the quick, easy answers for Duloss either when she came back limping back into Europe three years ago.

It is going to take time to find the right people. We need to increase our recruiting efforts. We very strongly brought out at the area level, meaning the danger that there's some pool, giant pool of recruits just swimming around, waiting to be reeled in, and yet there are not that many people committed to recruiting, especially longer-term people.

Recruiting longer-term people demands a lot more effort than recruiting short-term people. One of the key places to recruit long-term people is among the short-term people, but we don't even have enough people in a sense doing that because OM seems to be committed to so many things.

This is another thing I think it's good to comment on. Some people say, well, why don't we just, since we're committed to so many things and we don't seem to have enough money, which isn't the case exactly right now, maybe I could say a word about that, but we don't seem to have enough people, let's just chop something out, right?

I mean, that's simple. And we talked about the pie. But you know, OM is an army of visionaries and committed people to their visions and to their countries. There are no leaders at this point who are about to sit down and let us get rid of their piece of pie.

That's why sometimes STL comes under the gun because some people think, I think it's only a few, that if there's anything we could perhaps slice off and let it sail out into the land of Nod is STL. But we don't feel that that's God's direction.

There's a fair number of people that believe it would not make it because the amount of lifeblood, personnel, motivation, you know, that comes. For example, if STL just went out into the commercial world and was separate from OM, maybe we could find some trust, some guys that are really naive, that, you know, would take this thing on.

They would probably have to do it with all British personnel. Then if we sailed STL out into some other thing as we did to Middle East media when it was just being born. It's different when something is 25 years old than when it's just being born.

But the thing that really hit us as we discussed some of these things, if we let it go or found some other way to operate it outside of OM, OM immediately would have to start a fairly large-scale publication department.

In fact, we wouldn't let Dave Brown's department go. We'd try to rescue that because we need that publication department for all that OM is doing. Then we also need, you know, Verwer's book room would suddenly grow about tenfold because we are committed to the distribution literature on a grassroots.

So even if we were not a major wholesale operation, we would have to start our own distribution program. There's just so many things that as we prayed and talked through these things, it's been talked at different levels.

There are quite a few of us and many of you. Let me just tell you right now, if there weren't a half a dozen to a dozen people in STL committed to what you're doing, it'd be finished. I can just tell you that right now.

Because Maiden and I, with all that we've got, we haven't got this thing going on. So don't think STL is going on because there's some board of directors. That's not the way OM works. OM is a grassroots operation.

The board, to some degree, does what we ask them to do. In the other degree, they tell us what we're supposed to do. You know, it's negotiation. But there's no way the board is going to carry STL very easily.

And same as the area leaders, that's a representative body. So it's because we know, and I've been on the phone with some of you and I've been talking to different ones, it's because we know there is a committed nucleus, of course Mike Wheat's letter calls STL the flagship of OM's worldwide literature program.

We'd hardly want to shoot down the flagship. We'd get a little worried about the other two. So it's because we find there is some commitment. And I think it's also a mistake to think it's only long-term people who are committed.

A man might join the Marines for only three years, but he could be absolutely committed during those three years and he could do an awful lot for God. And I'm a little hesitant if we give the idea a long-term guy, he really believes in this, he's ready to give his life to it.

I hope so, praise the Lord, we need such people. The Lord knows that's been the biggest thrust of my life, not short-term. But at the same time, short-term people, I thank God in ICT and every team I've ever worked on, short-term people who are willing to give themselves wholeheartedly the task at hand, even though they don't believe they're going to stay.

Don't feel you're a second-class citizen around here because you're not going to stay. God honors generosity. And if we're generous with our people here and some go off to the Arab world and some go to India and some go maybe join other organizations, ultimately God will honor that.

We may have to battle, we may feel the pinch, but ultimately I believe God has honored that and that is what also has won us a lot of respect with other missions and other groups. Okay, another question.

Christian Business, Christian Ministry, and Missionary Work

What's the difference between a Christian business and a Christian ministry? Which is the steel? And if it's both, how do you put the two together?

Yeah, I think one of the most important things we need to understand is that we're dealing with words. You can go now to university for four years and get a course in semantics. I'm sure you all know what that means.

The meaning of words. And different words that get flying around the OM cuckoo house mean different things. So to answer that question, we'd have to define what is a business and what is a ministry. It's difficult.

The whole subject of Christian business, some people believe is a misnomer. Other people believe that should be a major goal. For example, in the United States, we have a group called, what is that? Master?

The group goes around cleaning everybody's offices. Service master. Now these men, a lot of them came out of Wheaton College. A lot of Christians had this strong emphasis, bring Christ into the marketplace.

And so they launched that business many, many years ago, very small I believe at the time, to really honor Christ in the marketplace. It was secular from the word go. I don't think they would claim that was a ministry.

Service master, cleaning people's floors and windows. They might, because you can give whatever definition you want to your word. Is the wife washing the dishes in the kitchen a ministry? I mean, depends on your definition.

In some ways I would like to think of it as a ministry. My wife certainly has a high degree of expertise in that area. The children have never seemed to pick up this vision, nor the father. But service master has been a tremendous testimony to what an organization right in the middle of all the corporations of America has become one of the biggest in the nation with a Christian testimony.

Now this is a good thing. Praise the Lord for it. We're not in that camp. OM is a missionary movement. It's not just a ministry. It's not just a ministry. It's a missionary movement and a missionary ministry.

But at the same time we're committed to excellency. We're committed to doing things right. We're committed to, of course, basic business principles. This is, I think, perhaps where we get into trouble or maybe we can get out of trouble is that we are committed to operate basic business principles.

Twenty years ago STL was sort of out front to some degree. Fifteen years ago might be better, in emphasizing the need for proper business principles. It was almost a pacesetter within OM. Then the ships came along.

They also became a pacesetter because, I tell you, if there was anything written off as impossible, it was the ships. I said, no way will a pack of amateurs like OM ever launch ships. But somehow for fifteen years that has gone.

Now, however, in most of our offices, with David Lundy in Canada, with David Hicks in New Jersey, there is even a stronger emphasis that things have to be done in a business-like way, computerization, all that has to take place to provide the support for 1600 people.

So, in a sense, all of OM is a business. People in the secular world, they see OM, we are about 24 major registered corporations across the world, with all the legal paraphernalia that that involves, all the law, legal cases we could get into if we don't do things right, boards of trustees, and there is just a need, a tremendous need, for an amalgamation of biblical, spiritual principles, maintaining our roots, at the same time, using proper business procedures, pursuing excellence, and all that kind of thing.

But, you know, one of the things that can hinder that is we get in a logjam of rhetoric, with different definitions, and so, we're turning on each other with different definitions, reacting to each other's statements, instead of reflecting, thinking it through, trying to understand where this person is coming from, what's his background.

And I believe that, somehow, by the grace of God, we are going to make this through. There are different theories about how we're going to do this, and we are in a time of transition. In a time of transition, there will be everlasting discussion.

But in the midst of the discussion, if you can do your job, whatever your job is at hand, even though there may be some complexities, if you can do that job at hand, to the best of your ability, even with the present staff we have here in STL, we can get the job done.

Not 100%. And we're fighting to get that staff. Most people don't know what we're doing behind the scenes to find the staff you need. But believe me, other organizations, with even a smaller amount of staff, have been able to get the job done, at least temporarily.

So let's try to be optimistic. Not keep thinking about all the people who are leaving. Let's praise God for those who are staying. Let's believe God is going to supply the people. Some of the problems are going through in STL.

We have gone through every other year for 23 years. You just haven't been here. And, of course, we had Jerry in the cockpit, who was absorbing and knowing about a lot of the problems that now are more widely known.

And Jerry would get on to me and say, we are lacking 15 people when it comes to September. And September after September, God gave us those people. Now we need a few more, and we need a few more specialists.

Especially, I understand, with the computer. Now that's getting out on the OM grape line. It takes weeks to get on the OM circuit, to the priority, because OM is looking for chief engineers, looking for captains.

Everybody is looking for people. And slowly over the weeks, the STL needs are getting higher and higher and higher on the OM worldwide hotline. And I believe God is going to bring these people in. But I would be a liar if I didn't tell you that in OM we are battling a lot of things at the same time.

Responding to Global Controversies Without Panic

The most encouraging thing is the basic oneness and unity there is in the overall worldwide leadership of OM. There's terrific differences of opinion on stuff. I mean, the Arab world, if I could talk to you for an hour about the controversies going on in connection with the Arab world, which I've been involved in the last days, and some of the controversies in connection with other parts of the world.

But through this, let's not panic. This is God's work. In the middle of the morning yesterday, I went and played nine holes of golf. I've been thinking about it for weeks and weeks and weeks. Finally, my courage thermometer got up, and I phoned Bob.

We've been trying to play golf. He's almost a professional, not really. He hates me to say that, but he's... You know, when he hits the ball, and it goes into the other golf course down the other side of the road, I mean...

But this is the first time we got out to play together in England. That sun, did you notice that sunny period yesterday morning for a number of hours? People are out there photographing. That's when we got to the golf course.

And you know, as I walked across hole number one, thinking about all the things I had to do back in my office, there was a great burst of faith in my heart. And I just thought in my mind, Operation Mobilization is God's work.

And for me to just relax and worship him and enjoy myself is an act of faith. Especially, as you know, characters like me were all written off as workaholics. And I came back again with the assurance that there is some hope for me of not being a workaholic.

Even though for the first three holes I was reading that Arab World manuscript. We had to wait for these guys in front of us who were really bad news. The interesting thing is that Bob had just been reading that morning in Dr. Backus' book, Telling Yourself the Truth, which are slowly making their way up the charts.

They're hard to get copies, but they're climbing. You can see Healing for Damaged Emotions beginning to get nervous at the top of the charts. Backus is climbing. But he had just read that chapter on the misbelief of indispensability.

Is that what it is? This concept that we get into thinking we're indispensable. I haven't read that. If I read that chapter, it was a long time ago. So God ministered to us in that situation. And I think we all need that to a degree.

This is God's work. Let's not panic. Even if a customer comes on the phone and you've just shipped him a lawnmower instead of books. Now that's wrong. And in OM, and in any other business, we need to be ready to apologize.

We need to put that right. And that's why without committed people, of course, the whole thing is impossible. But I believe that at the same time it will not add to the situation if you panic. You know, one of our board members, well, I need to be careful how I say it.

It wasn't a board member, but a very, very close friend of OM recently had an interesting phone conversation with one of our offices. And I think the truth is that both people on both ends of the phone sort of panicked from what I picked up.

And, of course, the thing just ended up, you know, in a big row on the phone and whatever, whatever else. I think it's sorted out now by one of the peacemaker types. But it doesn't accomplish anything.

You know, when someone calls your house and you didn't want to pick up the phone and it was the wrong number. I had a lady call again last night twice at the same time. What will it accomplish if you call her a son of a or start screaming at her on the phone?

What will that accomplish? Now, I know you feel it would release a lot of tension in you. This is what the world teaches. But I don't think we want to go that way. Well, our time is finished. Some of you maybe you don't find this kind of thing helpful.

Common Sense, Communication, and Operational Stewardship

But, you know, in OM we are committed to the amalgamation of spiritual, biblical principles and dynamic common sense. And, you know, one of the greatest needs we have, even here in Bromley, in our operation, is common sense.

You know, sometimes you get the idea that people are, you know, are running on a what was that expression you used, Bob? Incomplete deck. Not running on a full not playing with a full deck. How many know what that means?

It's not playing with a full deck. See, that shows the communication problem. And we want to, all of us who have English as a first language, even though we don't speak it properly, we want to humble ourselves before all of you who don't speak English as a first language, for our slang, for the expressions we come out with that must leave people confused.

Anyway, a man who is not operating on a full deck is compared with a deck of cards. How many of you have played cards? Well, it isn't totally evangelical. You can't play cards without How many cards in a deck?

Fifty-two. Fifty-two. It's a long time. Fifty-two cards. What about Canasta? Is that the same? It's the only thing I played. So you'd have difficulty playing cards unless you had fifty-two. And this expression, not operating on a full deck, means, you know, he's not quite with it.

He's not thinking. He's not, you know, it has different meanings depending on the context of the statement. But really, common sense is such a basic thing. You know, in the care of the vehicles, I am so sympathetic for our garage.

I will tell you, if you have any criticism against the garage, I'd love to talk to you because they have an impossible task, I will tell you, keeping this number of people mobile, including me and my big old coach.

And the vehicles that are given to us, God's people with their generosity, you know, the vehicles finally whipped out and wiped out and they give it to operationalization. We thought we were finally given a really nice car by a brother who joined OM, joining the ship.

This was going to be the best car Verwer's ever had. A Datsun I found out eventually. It was, how many years old? Six years old or something. But by the time it got back from the ship, Quinta had their little go at it.

Then it got down here and then Sam gets it. And if you want to ask Sam about this week's headaches, you can ask him about the Datsun. But let's pray for the garage and let's believe that there too God will give them the people they need.

Sam, what does your personnel need? I know you've got four men in there. One of them just got off and got married. No doubt he's coming back someday. And Dave Brown, give us an update. This huge for sale sign suddenly puts up over our garage there.

You seen that sign? Should have been on this building.

There's a plan to redevelop into an office block. The garage next door and the car showroom. I think there's a plan in motion.

What is our lease situation on our garage here? Did we eventually sign that thing again for some more years? So we haven't until when? But it's a few years, no? I mention that because one of the big expenses that we've had in terms of property around here is that garage there.

And you'll hear all kinds of talk about that. But I think when we've wrestled through with that I think somebody's even doing a paper on it. Jerry Davey's doing a paper on the whole vehicle thing. But I think personally, at least for now God has given us a miraculous premises to handle this wide, large number of vehicles that we handle here.

And anything we do in connection with the garage I don't think it's going to be happening that quick. We've got too many other changes we're wrestling with right now to suddenly throw our lifeline because some way our mobility is part of our lifeline.

I don't think with all the other changes suddenly that's going to be just closed. Because the expense of that has to be balanced into all the other areas where we're getting free premises or we're getting inexpensive cars or inexpensive transport.

Closing Prayer for Wisdom, Unity, and Provision

Let's pray. Time's gone. Lord, we thank you that we can be open and honest with one another. We thank you for the commitment of these leaders and the work around the world to STL even people who are not here.

People who are willing to come if there were an extreme emergency. Lord, give us wisdom as to what level of emergency we may be operating in. Help us to keep the lines of communication open. And Lord, we see the more and more difficulty.

People from certain nationalities even going out to these countries. We may have another dozen people from the Arab world looking for something vital they can do for God. For you, oh God. Even within the next couple of months.

Who would find STL a place where they can work and have direct input into world missions. And we just believe that those people that are needed to carry this work its next decade are just there around the corner.

We believe you're testing us with the various ideas and various opinions and various thoughts that are bound to take place. And we just believe, God, that you are going to supply those people just as you supplied them for the engine room and the bridge and the two ships and for our many different offices.

We think of the people you've given to Quinta in the last ten months. The people you brought into New Jersey. Most of them longer term. And we believe, Lord, you are going to bring the people here. We think of the crisis of Canada just a year ago.