Abortion Supporters Argue With Pastor

Apologia Studios

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00:00

You have a worldview too. Let's not pretend to be neutral. Yes, I follow Jesus Christ. He's the ultimate authority, absolutely.

00:07

And you have a worldview as well. You have a secularist worldview, and you're committed to that.

00:15

I'm not pretending to be neutral, and you shouldn't either. Okay, good. So we have it on the table now. I'm a

00:20

Christian who follows Jesus Christ. He's the ultimate authority. You're a secularist. Probably, are you agnostic?

00:26

Atheist? Maybe I'm a Buddhist. Okay, Buddhist. Fantastic. So you have a worldview, right? And you're committed to it.

00:32

So we shouldn't pretend that we don't. We let them actually hook up and start talking to one another.

00:38

That's what we do. So, let's talk about the moral issue. At what point is it okay to kill a baby?

00:47

When they're an embryo, and they're burning like that, and they're on a heartbeat.

00:57

It's something in my pocket. Okay, go ahead. Yes, when, by science's rules, if you remove that fetus, baby, lump of cells, human, whatever you want to call it, remove it from the human body, it will cease to exist.

01:16

Because you can't feed it and clothe it. If you throw a baby outside and let it die of exposure, it also dies the same way.

01:23

And I said, not because you can feed it and clothe it, because scientifically, it doesn't breathe.

01:30

It doesn't have skin. Well, actually, no baby in the womb breathes.

01:36

No, you're cutting me off. Okay, I'm sorry. Please, go ahead. Scientifically, if you remove a baby, fetus, whatever you want to call it, from a mother's body, at a certain point, it's kidneys aren't developed.

01:50

It's lungs aren't developed. None of that is developed enough to sustain life.

01:56

Not that if you leave a baby, a one -year -old on the street, and don't feed, that's completely different.

02:01

Well, can I respond to that? So your argument is really two -fold. One, it's level of development, it's not fully developed yet.

02:07

And number two, it's still dependent upon the mother. So can I ask you, if I take your foundation, because that's what you gave me.

02:14

It's not dependent on the mother. It's dependent on science to keep it alive. No, not science. Science is a concept.

02:21

Science isn't a thing. It's a concept. No, our body is not science. Science is a methodology.

02:26

Our body is biology. Yes, thank you very, very much. And the biology it's dependent upon is the mother. Science is a methodology.

02:34

Science is a word that describes an abstraction. It's a methodology.

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You have to have induction. You have to have the uniformity in nature. You have to use certain tools.

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It's a word. It's a word that describes a methodology.

02:52

But it's dependent upon the biology of the mother, correct? Yes. Gotcha. So I'm trying to make sure I understand your position.

02:58

Your argument is you use science to study biology. You're incorrect there.

03:05

But the answer to your position, it's not fully developed. I would ask you to be consistent with that.

03:12

Is a one -year -old fully developed? And again, I said the difference between a one -year -old is you know that it can survive.

03:22

It can breathe. It has skin. It has organs. It doesn't have a tail anymore. Do you feel that way about people on life support?

03:30

I feel like they have the choice to choose to die. Can I kill a person who's on life support because they're dependent upon it to do the breathing for them?

03:37

If they choose, yes. No, no, no, no. Thank you. Thank you. If they choose, I'm asking you if I'm allowed to murder them, can

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I kill them? So then I find a flaw in your belief. Please. Because that person has that choice.

03:53

They have that thought. Did you notice? You didn't hear what I said. You didn't hear what I said.

03:58

I asked if I'm allowed to murder somebody who's on life support. But they get to choose.

04:04

Thank you. How come you don't let the baby choose? Because the baby doesn't have a brain. My point is the person who's on life support also doesn't have a moment of functionality.

04:13

They can't engage in laws of logic in that moment. They're not able to reason. They're dependent upon a machine for breathing.

04:19

And I asked you if I'm allowed to kill that person. And we have laws in place that say that hospitals cannot kill those people.

04:26

Thank you. Why? Because if you thought about it... And we have a law in place that says women are allowed to kill their babies.

04:32

Thank you. Now your argument has shifted. Now we're on to something different. And now you're arguing because it's legal, it's moral.

04:39

How about slavery? It was legal. Don't talk to me about slavery. Why not? That's your argument.

04:45

You said if it's legal, it's moral. We're not talking about slavery. You said if it's legal, it's moral.

04:51

I didn't say if it was... You said we have laws that allow them to kill their babies. That's why it should be okay. That's what you said.

04:59

I didn't say anything about morality. I said it was illegal. We're not talking about... You said because it's legal, women are allowed to kill their babies.

05:08

Up to a certain point, yes. We've made that law. And so I was talking about the moral issue involved when

05:16

I kill somebody who's dependent upon life support. So now who is changing the verbiage? I'm not changing anything, ma 'am.

05:22

I'm speaking directly to it. You brought up the fact that because it's legal, they're allowed to do it.

05:32

All legal issues are moral issues. There's a moral component to every law that's made.

05:39

Absolutely, ma 'am. That's how it works. This isn't a miscarriage, ma 'am.

05:50

This is an abortion. Would you like me to show you 5 ,000 pictures?

06:00

I'm asking you, did you specifically take that picture after an abortion? Did I? No, but the Center for Bioethical...

06:06

You have no idea. The Center for Bioethical Reform puts these together. You can go to their website and you can actually watch abortions that have been done...

06:12

Have you watched the news lately? We have all kinds of fake news. Video. What's that? Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true. I didn't say because it's on the internet, ma 'am.

06:19

You can see the actual medical procedure. We have lots of videos of those. Here's my point.

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If you can test these babies' arms and legs from an abortion...

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If you can test it, I can show you this one. Why would someone performing an abortion...

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Here's my question. Stop cutting me off. I'm asking you a question. Sorry, I didn't know you were actually asking me a question.

06:48

I'll tell you why I won't look at it. Why would someone who's performing an abortion put a quarter in it? To show you the size.

06:54

They do it every day. This is the size. And let me tell you, I have friends who have carried the bags filled with the body parts of babies...

07:03

Out from behind abortion clinics when they toss them out to give them a proper burial. Why would you have friends like that if you're so against it?

07:11

You didn't hear what I said, ma 'am. We have friends that try to give these babies a proper burial. So when these places have destroyed their bodies and thrown them into the dumpster...

07:20

So your friends are illegally going into dumpsters and getting bio -waste? Certainly. They're putting the bio -waste in a dumpster.

07:26

That's believable. No, no, ma 'am. You don't know the nature of this business.

07:32

Especially in the 80s. I'm a woman and I've been a woman my entire life. I'm not talking about your gender.

07:40

I'm not talking about your gender. I'm talking about the nature of this business. You don't know what

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I know about this business. In the 80s, we have lots of friends who have been in this fight since the very, very beginning.

07:54

And they've carried the bodies of dead babies out of the dumpsters of abortion clinics.

08:02

Would you like to see the picture of Carmelo? I've seen the pictures. Carmelo's a little baby boy that was saved at Planned Parenthood.

08:09

I don't know anything about Carmelo. I'll tell you the story. I'll tell you the story. You probably don't either. I do. I've held him in my arms.

08:16

You don't like Carmelo's story? I'll share you Olivia, Grace, and Cara. Would you like to see the twin girls that were saved from this location?

08:23

Would you like to see all the kids that are raised in poverty because their mothers can't afford to raise them?

08:29

So they deserve to die. Okay, so now your argument is if a child is poor, they deserve to die.

08:35

No. That's what your argument is. The problem is that you keep saying child. Well, we're talking about children right now.

08:42

You said poor children. That's Carmelo. Let me ask you.

08:50

Should he be dead? I'm now asking you. To do that?

08:55

Then that's her choice. So how about a mother of a five -year -old? Is it her choice to kill that child? Yes. A five -year -old can survive.

09:01

Let me ask you. No, no. We're talking about, you said, your argument is, I said should Carmelo be dead? You said if it was her choice to do it?

09:08

Yeah, so I said, okay, let's extend it. Mothers, can they kill their five -year -olds? Again, you're talking about apples and oranges.

09:15

No. We've already addressed the level of development argument, and you have no response. Because you can't.

09:22

So now I want to say, have you traveled? Have I traveled? Have you traveled? All over the world. You have. Yeah. So you've seen the poverty.

09:29

All over the world, yeah. So you've seen it. Physically been in it. Yeah, absolutely.

09:35

So you see these kids with no shoes in the Amazon when their house is just a shack.

09:40

I haven't been in the Amazon. Well, we have. It's just a shack, and all they have is no windows. Should they be dead?

09:46

It's literally a shack. Okay, so kill the poor kids. Got it. That's your argument. So, are you going to go adopt them all? Maybe you should start adopting all the kids.

09:51

We've actually pled to the mothers inside here for the lives of their babies and said we'll adopt every baby that comes out of here.

09:57

Our church is committed to it. So why don't you bring a legal team out here? We have a legal team on standby. Oh, on standby.

10:03

On standby. Yeah, you think that anyone would agree to that?

10:09

Oh, we have them on standby. No, no, no. We have a legal team that would be ready to do it completely for free. We wouldn't charge anything.

10:15

It wouldn't cost anything to the mothers. So this child who had that oops, you know, was put into peer pressure, had sex, underage, and you're going to say...

10:26

Or even worse, was raped, was molested by her. Disgusting. So the child deserves to die because the father's a criminal.

10:33

Okay, got your argument. So I'm just saying, so this person is supposed to, even if you were to adopt it, you're telling her, we'll adopt it, but you have to hold it for that term all the way until birth.

10:46

But she can't go to school. Who said she can't go to school? Schools say she can't go to school. No, no, no.

10:52

I have friends who were pregnant at 16 who I'm the godmother of their kids. And they had to drop out of school.

10:59

What were they pregnant with? A girl. The kid you're a godmother to? Yes. So at one point they were in the womb.

11:05

So, hold on. Do you love those kids? Well, obviously I do, but... Should they have died?

11:10

I was also pregnant at the same time because I was stupid and I was thinking about putting my life on hold.

11:16

But thankfully I didn't because I was able to go to school. Thankfully you didn't what? Do you know what happens to old women when they...

11:22

Thankfully you didn't have a kid. Because I was able to go to school, travel, get an idea. I understand. So you've killed your child and that's why you support

11:29

Planned Parenthood. Actually, I had a miscarriage. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, okay. So you have to forgive me.

11:35

It's not normal for a person to say, thankfully I had a miscarriage. Because I was able to go to school...

11:40

That's an odd thing for a mother to say. Because I was able to travel for a year to automatically have some wisdom towards her body.

11:46

Oh, no. We live in a fallen world and God is sovereign. Yes. Babies die. People die. People get sick and get cancer.

11:53

All you want to do is talk about... We live in a fallen world. I'm answering you. No, you're not. You didn't even let me finish my sentence.

11:59

Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I have three of you talking to me at the same time. You have to forgive me. And every three of us, you keep interrupting and talking over and trying to...

12:08

No, when I respond to your argument, that's not me talking over you. That's me refuting your position. Did he not talk over all three of us?

12:14

Guys, when all three of you are talking at the same time, I don't know which one to answer. So my point was going to be that, you know, according to all of you

12:21

God people, that God reached down and said, your body can't support a baby.

12:26

We're going to spontaneously abort it with your own body.

12:33

You're attacking a strong man. I don't believe that. So perhaps your argument would work with somebody who believes that.

12:38

I believe God is sovereign and we live in a fallen world. And in this fallen world that we've chosen for ourselves, there is death, there is disease, there is pain, there are tears.

12:48

And yes, people get sick and die in a fallen world. You and I deal with sickness and cancer and those sorts of things in this fallen world.

12:55

And yes, babies die in the womb. But here's the thing. When babies die in the womb, naturally, that's not with malice of forethought.

13:05

I'm glad I was being screamed live. I don't give a shit. What you're arguing for is not something in terms of natural causes, the baby dies in a fallen world.

13:17

What you're arguing for is with malice of forethought, mothers and fathers should be able to go in there and tear their babies' arms, heads and legs off.

13:25

That's why you didn't let me finish. Because what I was going to say is if I didn't, if I had that child,

13:31

I would have been 16 having a kid with my father who's worked every day of his life.

13:39

Every weekend he'd leave for months just to put food on the table. And my mom worked three jobs.

13:46

Is that something that I would have to do with my kid? Because I'm not there to raise my kid.

13:53

I have no education. Do you know of any single mothers right now? Yes. They work hard?

13:59

Yes. Should their babies be dead? Some of them. Your argument is because you would have to work hard, because life would be tough, babies should be able to be killed.

14:07

That's your argument. Once again, you didn't let me finish. Ma 'am, I'm responding to what you said. You finished talking.

14:13

Once again, you started talking over me. Listen, guys, when you speak, it's a monologue if the person doesn't get to dialogue.

14:21

So I'm giving you a response to what you said. I have to work three jobs.

14:28

Never see my kids. Barely put food on the table. And them have holes in their shoes.

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Raggedy clothes. And then go to school and people judge them. Say that their parents aren't good.

14:43

Making them feel less than themselves. But me, who decided it was better to go to school, better myself, so when

14:49

I am ready to have kids, I can support them. Give them the life that I believe a kid should have.

14:56

Most of the girls that come here, they know that they don't have an education. They don't have money.

15:02

Why would they make it hard on their kids? So, for you, was your parents working three, four jobs?

15:10

Yeah. Did you get made fun of at school? Yeah, I was bullied in school. And I'm glad my parents didn't kill me.

15:17

Did you enjoy it? Did I enjoy it? Life is tough, guys. We don't kill people because life is tough. Can I answer you now?

15:24

Because you've had about two minutes to say what you have to say. Your argument is fundamentally that because life can be difficult, we ought to be able to kill our children because life would be hard.

15:38

Have you had a hard life? Yes. Have you had difficulties? Yes. So, should your parents have just killed you because your life is hard?

15:45

Oh, definitely. Your parents should have killed you because your life is hard. No, no, my life.

15:51

It would have made it easier on them. Instead of working so many jobs. So, your argument is that mothers and fathers should be able to kill children because life is difficult.

15:59

And that's what you're walking away with. God bless you. I pray that you guys turn from your sin. I'll hail Satan for you.

16:05

What's that? I didn't hear you. Go to hell with me. He said, I'll hail Satan for you.

16:11

And you hope I go to hell with you. I pray that you don't go to hell, ma 'am. I pray that you come to know

16:17

Christ and His forgiveness. What's that? I can't hear you, ma 'am. You're going to have to speak up.

16:32

Well, so, are we still live? Okay. So, that's about the normal interaction with Planned Parenthood supporters.

16:45

Is when you actually address their positions and they think through them. They essentially have no argumentation, no response.

16:53

And so, they end up ultimately walking away. Because once you work through all their argumentation and get to the bottom, there is no more response.

17:02

And so, they walk away. No, we walk away because it's a circular argument and you're narcissistic. What's a circular argument, ma 'am?

17:09

The argument that we start here and we all agree that we get to here. And then you bring it right back to the start. Ma 'am, you're not even making any sense.

17:15

Can you come explain? I did explain. No, you didn't. And that's typical.

17:21

Walk away. They notice that the Christians are on the corner, ready to engage, ready to talk. And the

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Planned Parenthood supporters constantly walk away. They turn their music up to drown out the voices. There really is no response.

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You see, your movement is in its death throes. Your movement is in its death throes. This reign of terror upon children will ultimately be over.

17:44

We pray that you would know forgiveness and peace, reconciliation with God.

17:52

That you turn from your sins to Christ. That you'd know the one who died for sinners and rose from the dead.

18:01

You see, God doesn't just rescue your soul. He doesn't just rescue you for Him and eternity with Him.

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He also rescues your mind. He also rescues your mind from the futile argumentation that you've engaged in to justify the slaughter of children.

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We pray that you would turn from your sin and trust in Christ. To know the peace and forgiveness that we've experienced.

18:30

We're sinners just like you. So, hopefully you guys can see that you can have confidence to come out here to engage.

18:42

Because their position is futile. It's fallacious. Ultimately, no foundation.

18:48

No science. It's interesting. The Planned Parenthood supporters will often cry, We're about science.

18:54

We're about science. But once you engage in the scientific argumentation, they have no ultimate response.

19:00

And so, what needs to take place is Christians across the country ought to come out to places like this.

19:06

To plead for the lives of children. And to engage with the gospel. Some of these women. You up?

19:19

Yeah. Good.

19:28

Yeah, she took both. Well, what do you have to say? Since we're going live. Anything? Um, it seems like,

19:39

I kept thinking about, like, baby showers. We don't say we're having, like, clump of cells showers, right?

19:47

Right. When people look at a, like a, a test that shows if they're having a baby, they don't say, oh, yes,

19:54

I'm having a clump of cells. Right. They're excited to have a baby. So, I don't get how they can take it from one area, and then they don't keep that same idea in other aspects of their thinking.

20:07

Right. It just doesn't make sense. It's inconsistent. Yeah. Well, the encouraging thing,

20:13

I think, is that this ministry has been having such an impact in this area, you can't miss it.

20:21

And because it's being so difficult upon their business, they've had to try to get these

20:29

Planned Parenthood supporters to come out, to drown us out, to try to work against the work that we're doing. Yeah. And it's interesting because, like, it looks like there's a lot of cars in here right now, but there's literally so many vacancies throughout the whole strip mall here.

20:46

Yeah. Businesses keep leaving because they don't want to be next to a place that kills children.

20:53

Yeah. You have a vacancy, vacancy, vacancy, vacancy, vacancy.

21:01

Did anything come into where Pita Jungle is? No, there's another one right there. Yeah. And this one's closed over here.

21:07

Yeah. So, nobody wants to open a business here because we make it so difficult on Planned Parenthood.

21:17

It's hard for people to come in here and ultimately enjoy themselves at these restaurants when you have people outside engaging in this kind of rational combat and testifying to what's happening in here.

21:31

So, listen, if you come out to Planned Parenthood, not only do you get to save babies by the grace of God, preach the gospel, but you also get to shut down a business.

21:42

Planned Parenthood. We can't forget that. This is a business. It's Murder, Inc. And if you come out here, you make it difficult for them to actually do business.