Systematic Theology (part 44)

Creation Ex Nihilo: Why, How, and When God Created

A loving and gracious Father, we thank you, Lord, for bringing us here this morning to worship you, to hear from you, and to be transformed by your Word. Lord, we pray this morning as we open your Word and as we look at who you are and what you have done, that our hearts would be kindled afresh by your goodness and your power and your majesty.

In Christ's name we pray. Amen. Last Sunday I was preaching at Cape Cod Bible Church. Pastor Jim Stewart, he sends his wishes. As you know, Pastor Jim was also at the Shepherds Conference and he did come back early, but they covered our prayers as the church is, as you know, it's a small church, so we can pray for Pastor Jim and his health as he's dealing with cancer and also with his family and with the ministry that goes on there.

It's always exciting to see small congregations faithful to the Lord serving in a difficult place on the Cape. That didn't sound right. As you know, there's people who come and go there, but in terms of solid believers who meet regularly, it's always encouraging to see the ministry of the saints.

So last week I told him I was preaching on Hebrews 11 on faith, and I almost made that my Sunday school topic today, and then I said, no, no, no, I need to go back to where we left off a while back. But when I was preaching there, I told the people there, you know, Pastor Jim was listening to MacArthur and Al Mohler, and then last week he gets to listen to me.

And this week, you know, you've been listening to Pastor Bob for the last several months, and then you come back to me again. So I don't know what trend this is, but hopefully, you know, as I said last time, I'll hide behind the word.

You've been hearing some series of Sunday schools focused upon sanctification. You've been studying Romans, we've been looking at what it means to understand truth, to confess that truth, and make it be a part of our life as we live it out.

Our holiness doesn't merely depend upon our self-effort, it depends upon the finished work of Christ, and how we live this life by the Spirit, enjoying the fullness of what God has given to us. So this has been, I know, refreshing to many of you, I've heard from you, and it's been super refreshing to me.

And so today, we are restarting our, not restarting, we're continuing our series of adventures in theology, and hopefully this gives you more fodder for what we must be confessing on a daily basis as believers.

We have looked at Bibliology, the doctrine of the Word of God, last year. Then we spent a lot of time looking at Trinity, we've been looking at the attributes of God, and it took me a while to refresh myself where we were, and I decided this would be a good place for us to start, which is in Creation.

And the way I'm hoping to do this is, this is an outline that's adapted from Grudem's teaching notes, and I'm going to use this as an outline, and my hope is each week we will just pick one topic, unless there is a conversation that turns out to be challenging, and we need to extend.

Every week we'll have one topic, so you'll have some material that you can take back and read more in terms of referencing, but my hope is that we can touch upon the highlights, discuss a few things that are helpful for us to just dwell upon, but hopefully complete one subject each week.

So with that, so if you look at your handout, right on the top I have the question, Creation, why, how, and when did God create the universe? Those three questions, why, how, and when, those are some of the elements that we're going to unpack in today's Sunday School.

And actually if you look at the definition there, this is kind of a summary statement, God created the entire universe out of nothing, how? It was originally very good, and he created it to glorify himself, why?

Now the when is another question that hopefully we'll have time to get to at the very end. Now before we look at the creation of God, I want to just ask a question to get us thinking. Can you think of things that you have created, that you have created yourself?

Can you name some things that you have created? Just shout them out, you don't need to raise your hand. The statement was, I don't know if you can actually create anything, and I think if you think of the term used in Genesis 1 in the beginning when God created, that's a very unique term, which is, you know, brings forth into existence things that are not, and if I forget, I don't have the Hebrew word here, I think it's bara, and it's, is that right?

And that's a term that is reserved for God creating, so you're absolutely right. In that sense, no, I don't think any of us have the ability to bring something out of nothing, or to bring into existence what does not exist, and all of us need something to begin with in order to fashion and shape it into something else, and that's normally what humanly speaking we talk of creation, so maybe we'll start with a secondary sense.

Can you think of some things that you have created? Okay, you take some vegetables, take some stuff from the store, do a little magic, and then, because, trust me, I don't know how to do that very well, I have a lot of respect for people who can make things that are smelling good and enjoyable to the tongue, so, and so both the recipients of your dinner as well as you yourself take a lot of joy in what comes out, the creation that you set forth on the table.

What else can you think of? Art. So here it is, in the way God has built us, we have the creativity, we have certain ways in which we can bring forth things that capture beauty, that can communicate things that are, in some ways, maybe even transcendent, you know, we can communicate the things of the earth and then we can communicate things of the glories of heaven, I mean, I look at some of Kincaid's paintings and I'm like, hmm, I know, if I had painted stick figures, the Lord has gifted him with a lot of talent and we're going to see again it's the image of God that just bursts forth, God has made us in his image and we are able to create in a smaller fashion, reflecting the creativity of God himself.

So the reason I bring that out is, I want us to be thinking of God creating and I want us to move up from our sphere of experience, we understand what creation is on a smaller scale and then I want us to be thinking of God creating, the joys that we experience from our creation, the purpose for which we create things and then the ability with which we create things and then look up to the great creator, the only creator, the creator who creates out of nothing and how that ought to transform our thinking when we look at God, we look at ourselves, we enjoy the things, we look at others, like I said, Kincaid and others who have certain talents and we're like, wow, and then we look at God and we say, you're awesome God and that's really where I want us to go.

So with that in mind, if you look at the handout, I have a few sections, the major sections, God created the universe out of nothing, we're going to spend a few moments there, then the nature of creation as being distinct from God and its dependence upon God, that's number B, if you turn it around, you have why God created, for his glory, we're going to look what that means and then the nature of this universe, what do we make of this creation, you know, that's on your dinner table that God has provided, how ought we to look at it and then the when part comes, I think in section E, we'll be looking at some of the controversies surrounding creation and then hopefully some applications.

Biblical Evidence for Creation Out of Nothing

So with that, let's begin right at the top on page one, biblical evidence for creation out of nothing, I would like us to just quickly read a few verses, if someone can read Psalm 33, 6, just lift your hand, if you'd like to read, you can pick it up later, Becky, and then you can also read Psalm 33, 9, Becky, if someone can read Colossians 1, 16, just raise your hand, thank you, and then if someone can read Revelation 4, 11, thank you, and then if someone can read Hebrews 11, 3, thanks, okay, while they're turning up there, let me read Genesis 1, 1, I don't know if I need to open the Bible for this, but let me do it anyway, the very first verse in the Bible, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and I think when we think of the title there, biblical evidence for creation out of nothing, you want to be focusing on that part in the beginning, this is the beginning of everything, there is nothing there that is in existence, there is no matter, there is no time, there is nothing outside of God when God creates everything, he is the source of all of creation, it is God, the primary object of that sentence, and it is God alone who exists and he creates everything else, so let's have Psalm 33, 6 and 9, thank you, and the rest of Genesis 1 gives you the details of how this happens, God spoke and it came to be, God spoke and it came to be, 6 days of creation, the agency with which he creates, what's revealed to us is God's word, his spoken word, he says something and it comes to pass, and as we talked about our creation, we use our imagination, if you are an artist, we use the tools that were given to us, and we take things and make, fashion them, but when God creates ex nihilo, that is out of nothing, he creates of his power, his word creates all of these, the entire universe into existence, and we will look at that in the next verse, so thank you Becky, who has Colossians 1, 16, all things were created through him and for him, we are going to be seeing more about the through him later in this study, but if you look at the description of things, visible and invisible, principalities, powers, everything that is made, was made, this is talking about Jesus Christ, in fact the verse I skipped earlier is John 1, 3, all things were made through him, and without him was not anything that was made, speaking about Jesus Christ, the word of God, in the beginning was the word, Revelation 4, 11, you created all things, by your will they exist, and we are going to see this as well, creation is not just made and let go on its own, the creation is made with properties that sustain, that regenerate, that propagate, you know when God created the animals, he said you know, fill the earth, and he made them with the capability of reproducing, and it's not that God had to come and make one every single time, and yet the properties that he imbued them with, he is the one who sustains them, in order that they can continue functioning the way that he has created them, and the last verse, Hebrews 11, 3, by faith, we know that what is made, the visible things all around us, you, me, the chairs, this building, are made by things that are not visible, you know when you think of like Psalm 19, Romans 1, you know these, the creation ought to provoke us into awe, you know what is outside is so beautiful, that we ought to be asking ourselves, the grandness of God, the power of God, that ought to make this, and yet without faith, it is impossible for us to trust and fall down and bow before the God, the invisible God, God who is spirit, who made all of these things, I've been teaching a class on, in philosophy, and about a quarter of the students are not believers, and they struggle with this a lot, you know, we're looking at mind, body, problem, the soul, who can see the soul, and yet there is something there that they want to grapple with, but without faith, it is hard to recognize the truth, so it's nice to see the rest of the students just talk about their faith, what they study in the Bible, how we can know certain things that otherwise it is impossible for us to know, none of us were there at the time of creation, and we need the word of God, God revealing himself to us, opening our eyes so we can believe what he has revealed about himself to us, so Hebrews 11, 3 is a crucial verse, you know sometimes we take it for granted, yes I believe God made it, it's like God made it, and he made it possible for me to acknowledge and bow down and revel in the fact that he is our creator.

Any thoughts on this, the creation ex nihilo, these verses, any questions? Alright, let's go to the next point, because God created the entire universe out of nothing, there is no matter in the universe that was, that is eternal, Psalm 90 verse 2, it talks about how before the mountains were brought forth from everlasting to everlasting you are God, we have all of creation in this time space continuum, before everlasting God exists and into time eternity in the future God will exist, he is the one unchanging eternal being and everything that he makes comes in time and space.

How many of you know that there was a theory that the universe was eternal or could have been eternal? What was the theory that people were making up and why is it no longer very popular? And the implication being that someone had to create everything that comes into existence and the very, the point of creation ex nihilo is everybody knows that nothing comes out of nothing, you cannot get something from nothing by itself, so if you were, science looks at a closed box in terms of an experiment, you have nothing inside the box, nothing is going to come inside the box by itself, something from the outside has to do something in order for something to come inside the box and really that was the big challenge with the universe, it's like okay, the universe is so big, you know, maybe it's possible that it is just eternal, I mean this is not just a modern scientific theory, it's, you know, philosophers all through time have been grappling with this idea of beginning and the knowledge that if there is a beginning then someone has to begin this, it doesn't just happen on its own.

And again, we'll talk more about the when at the end of this section. And of course the Big Bang theory brought this idea to pretty much a strong stop, which is like okay, we see an expanding universe, red shifts, all the evidence that they have points to something that shows that this matter cannot be eternal and now the problem is okay, how do you try to figure out what's happening with the Big Bang?

Again, we'll get to that later. Any thoughts on this one? And the heart of man hasn't changed, you know, before the Big Bang or after the Big Bang. It's like before the Big Bang we had a theory we could rest ourselves in even if it doesn't give us comfort, now afterward you have another theory, you know, whether it's multiverse, it's like, you know, what happened in that little point in time if something didn't shift this way, you know, our universe would not have come into existence, all these grappling questions and actually the next point we have there, God creating the universe out of nothing gives it meaning and purpose because without God in the picture, no matter how grand your scientific theory or how out there your scientific theory is, it's just random and chance.

It is God who imbues this creation with purpose. When you recognize the God of this universe, that's why Hebrews 11 .3 is very important, by faith we know that everything that is visible was created by the things that are not seen.

It is recognizing the person of God. Pastor Bob said this, you know, they are looking for an impersonal materialistic solution to this problem, no matter how big they make that box, it is still a box that is empty.

And when you recognize as Christians we have a creator God who is loving, who is powerful, who is intentional, who chose to do these things. It's not just some random stuff popping out of thin air and who cares, you know, today it might pop out of existence because it just popped back in, you know, if that's what you believed in.

So here is this meaning and purpose that we have in all of creation because it is God who created it and gave it meaning and purpose. When you read Genesis 1, there is an order through which he creates these things.

There is a purpose, he looks at it and says it is good. He has designed it for a certain reason and I mean even the secular students of science look at the universe and they are like, wow, you know, the Earth's location, you know, the fine tuning of the entire universe, everything is just marvelous and yet you take God out of the picture, it's like what do you have left?

You are just floating through time and space without meaning. Anyway, so that's the creation out of nothing. The next one is the creation of the spiritual universe. This I would like us to read carefully.

So if someone can read Revelation 10 .6. One hand, just raise your hand. Oh, thank you. And then Nehemiah 9 .6. Thank you, Corey. So while they are turning there, let me just read this sentence. The creation of the entire universe also includes creation of unseen spiritual realm of existence.

We already saw the next sentence there, Colossians 1 .16, how Christ is involved in the creation of the visible and the invisible, the principalities and powers. Here we are talking not just of, we are talking about angels, we are talking about demons, we are talking about all those creatures like when you think of Isaiah 6, the seraphim that are flying around, Revelation, all these wonderful creatures, the angels that come in Daniel and in the beginning of the Gospels, all of these things and including Genesis 3, the serpent that would come.

So let's read first Revelation 10 .6. He is talking about three different locations, if you will. One is heaven, one is earth, that is solid ground and then the sea and the life that teems in it. So if we go back to Genesis 1, we read about the things that were created day six on the land and before that the vegetations that were on the soil.

And then you have the waters that are teeming with life and all these marvelous creatures that God has created. So he creates a multiplicity of beings on this physical universe that we can see and recognize and they are given the command to fill the earth.

So we have them producing according to their own kind creatures. But then in heaven, he says, can you read that again? Heaven, what is in it? You want to think of this location called heaven and what is in it?

You know, God obviously inhabits heaven and earth, but when he creates heaven, he populates them with certain beings. And what are these beings? So when we read the next one in Nehemiah 9 .6, you get to see more.

Host of heaven. That's a very strange little term there. You know, that's armies of heaven. These thousands and thousands upon angels that are inhabiting heaven. And these are the, I mean, the way I always like to think of it for my inability to see invisible things.

You know, I think of Elisha and, you know, standing there and he's surrounded by all these armies. And then his servant says, oh, we are in big trouble because these guys are going to come and decimate us.

And then he says, Lord, open his eyes. And he looks around and there are these chariots, you know, filled with all these hosts of heaven that are just there. And, you know, remember, angels are ministering spirits.

They are messengers. They are sent for us. And here is this invisible armies of heaven that exists. And I think, you know, sometimes we forget to remember that there are beings that just surround us and that populate heaven.

These are wonderful. And God is the one who made them all. Any thoughts on the spiritual universe before we move to the next one? All right. Direct creation of Adam and Eve. Now, this is very, very important.

So no matter who you're talking to, whether it's a secular person who doesn't believe in God, or it is a Christian who is kind of confused by some of the scientific theories that exist, that sentence, I have that.

And human beings cannot be the result of a long evolutionary process. It just turned with me to Genesis 2. And I would like us to read that together. We have Genesis 1 that talks about this grand big scheme, you know, six days of creation.

What is it that God accomplished? And then in Genesis 2, verse 7, we have here this description. The Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. And the man became a living creature.

You don't have any description like this for any of the other creation that God made. Just the handiwork of God. And I think you want to be just thinking of that when you read like Psalm 139. You think of the way in which he has fashioned each of us, and especially the first man, Adam.

There is a reason why God made him. And the next point, we'll actually talk more about that. But here, people try to read Genesis 1, 2, and 3 in different ways. They want to read it poetically, allegorically, in some way, shape, or form to avoid the explicit texts of scripture.

And this is one of those texts, no matter what scientific theory Christians would like to hold on to, you cannot get out of this Genesis 2, 7, which is an explicit description of the way God made man.

And likewise also in Genesis 2, 21 to 23, talking about Eve, the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept, took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man, he made into a woman and brought her to the man.

The man said, this at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man. Neither Adam nor Eve descended from anyone else, but were directly made by God.

And they had the breath of God in their nostrils, as God gave them life. So the A and B cover that, but look at point C. We are created in God's image, in the image of God, God created Adam and Eve, the pinnacle of God's creation.

Here you have all of this universe, this planet earth prepared for man, more like God than any other creature. And then in the mandate we saw, we didn't read in Genesis, is that they would have dominion and they would rule over this world, this beautiful world that God had given.

So there is authority that is given to humans as vice regents of God, you know, in God's stead as represented with the, we don't own these, we are managers of these, we get to enjoy these because God has made us again.

He has directly made this with this purpose that he would reflect himself in creation. And so the last thing I have that the scriptural perspective gives human significance that God intended us to have.

I think today in this world, when people look at things, you know, you take God out of the picture, you see a universe, it's beautiful. And we have a people who are confused. It's like, where do I fit in this?

You know, I can look at the string of abuses of the universe, and I'm going to go to this other extreme and, you know, make the universe my God. And, and we lose sight of why this universe even exists, why we were made in this universe, what is our relationship to this universe that God has intended for us to have.

And, and these texts are critical for us to recognize, there is a purpose, there is a reason why God has made us thus and given us this dominion. Any thoughts on this before we move? For those of you who couldn't hear, the verse was Genesis 126, where God confers and says, let us make man in our image after likeness, with the intention of relationship, there is a God man is made in God's image, and is created to worship and to have dominion.

Creation of Time and Stewardship of Our Days

Alright, so the next one is creation of time. And again, I think we touched upon this in Genesis 11, before in the beginning, before time, God existed. But he also creates time, which is the succession of moments one after the other, we are creatures of time, it's impossible for us to envision eternity, when God exists before time even existed.

But the matter, the material universe that we have, passes moment by moment, you know, when I was little, I used to think, oh, if I took all the watches and then stop there, maybe time will stop. And I'm like, wait, no, the sun is still moving.

Maybe if I stop all of the celestial objects, then maybe time would stop. I'll still be moving. I'll be breathing. So I have this succession of moments. And we cannot think of this concept where time doesn't exist.

But when God creates, it starts this, you know, the clockmaker, if you will, he brings time into existence. And we are all these creatures within time, but he is the creator of time. I have a few verses, but you can read them when you go home.

And one of the aspects of time, and this is one thing we don't normally spend as much time on as is preparing, this was helpful for me. You know, I'm falling back into my old problem with time. But let me ask you this question.

This was very, very helpful. We all know what it means to be good stewards of the things that God has made us masters over. You shall have dominion over, you know, maybe your family, maybe your job, maybe your positions.

We kind of have a reasonable sense. God gave them to me and I need to be wise in the way I use them. When you think of time, maybe let me throw this out. How do you see yourself as a steward of God's time?

Is there a way that we should be responsible for the time that God has given us? What does that look like? Yeah. So everything we do, we want to glorify God and including the time that we have time as a resource.

I was thinking about this the this past week, you know, I think Ephesians 2, 8 to 10, when he talks about the paths that he has made for us, that we would walk in them as believers. He has saved us. He is sanctifying us and he places us on in this path.

And you know, those times when you recognize the will of God, you study the word, your heart is transformed and you recognize the circumstance and you say, I need to make this choice that would honor God.

And you are pleased to make those choices that honor God. And when I was thinking of this as a path in a very simplistic way. So today I have 24 hours and these 24 hours, I have a choice of walking in step with what God has for me.

If I want to run ahead, if I say, you know what? I don't like this plan that God has made. I want to be ahead of God on this thing. I want to worry about tomorrow already before it has begun. Jesus has some words for us, doesn't he?

What does he say about getting ahead of ourselves in time? That sufficient for each day is, you know, that's right. And his grace is enough for this moment that he has given us. Don't get way ahead of him.

And on the other hand, you know, a little folding of the hands, a little turning over in the morning when the alarm goes off and it's like, you know, time is moving by and I'm like, I'm Lord of my time, time wait for me and laziness.

And that's the other extreme. You know, you can kind of get overhead and be so industrious and zealous. You can lose sight of God, or you can get caught up in the worries of the future, or you could be just lost back in time.

And, and, and instead of redeeming the time, you can just let the signs of time slip through your fingers and then be accountable to God. As a believer, we don't be judged for that, but we do not get the rewards that we would have if we were walking in step with what God has ordained for us in our lives.

So I think, you know, that was just helpful for me to just bring back. I mean, the last few weeks were a little challenging at work and I'm like, sometimes I'm going too far ahead and sometimes I'm not.

And it's like, you know, if this is the line, it's always like, but when you recognize, you know, this is what God wants me to do. I want to come back to the word, ask God, what is it that would glorify God in this day, in this moment that God has placed for me, we're going to come back to that.

So I think just remembering, uh, we are stewards of the time that God has given us also. All right. The next one, um, this we actually covered long back, but I think we'll just quickly review this, the work of the son and the Holy spirit in creation.

We have, uh, God, the father is a agent in the beginning. God created the heaven and the earth. He initiates this, but the son is the active agent in creation. So we have those references from Colossians 1 16, that we read John one, three, the word, um, all things were made through him.

Um, so he's the direct agent who carried out the plans and the directions of the father. And then we have the Holy spirit. And again, we, we, sometimes the Holy spirit is the person of the Trinity that is behind everything.

You don't always see him on the forefront. We want Christ, um, uh, the exaltation of crisis primary in the pages of the new Testament. But if you look at the role of the spirit, he is completing filling and giving life.

Um, the word in Hebrew, there is ruach, which is spirit or breath or wind and, uh, referencing to the work of the Holy spirit. So we have a few of those verses there, Genesis one, two, this spirit of God was hovering over the face of the deep.

And, um, um, so we want to remember, uh, the triune God is always at work together, including in the act of creation. And we will see in other aspects as well. Um, I'm going to go quickly through the second section, but before I do that, any, any thoughts or comments on this first section?

Creation Is Distinct from God and Dependent on God

All right. The second one creation is distinct from God and yet always dependent upon God. There are two terms, the first and second points, God is transcendent and God is imminent. What do you, what do we know about transcendence and imminence?

You have the definitions there, but go ahead. I love the way you said it. And I want you to think of it this way. When you think of transcendence and imminence, transcendence, far above everything, uh, created imminence intimately involved with all of creation, the way that you as a Christian would use these two terms would be different than the way any other person in any other religion or a secular person would talk about these two words.

Uh, so keep that in mind as you're thinking of these terms. And I think, um, I think it was Cornelius Mantle. Um, I, I heard this through John frame. He, every time he starts a class, he would come on the board and he would draw a big circle, small circle that are separated from each other talking about, you know, God exists on his own.

He's doesn't need the universe and the universe is not God. It is separate from God. And then, uh, in my systematic theology, you know, there is a line from the big circle to the small circle with an arrow saying, you know, that the small circle came is created by God and it's dependent upon him.

Now, the way in which these entities of God and the universe are connected, if you don't have the biblical perspective, that God is far beyond all of this universe. When you think of this universe, um, maybe this is a good time to talk about it.

Um, it's both. And yeah, that is both transcendent. There is a genuine awe that we get that is, um, there are things about God that we cannot fully understand. He is transcendent in that sense. And yet he cares deeply about this universe.

He hasn't let it go on its own. He's involved in its functioning. So, um, let me see if I have a few verses here to, um, you know, let's, uh, let's look at the, uh, different points here and then we'll make, make some, we'll, we'll discuss this a little bit.

So distinct from materialism. So if we think of, uh, materialism, how would we connect this idea of a transcendent God and an imminent God? What does the materialistic worldview see when it comes to the relationship of God and, and the universe?

It's not a trick question. That's right. The physical universe is all that is. And so they invest all of their time, energy, and effort toward this, what is visible. And so there is no God who created this.

There is no God who relates to this. So there is no transcendent God, nor is there an imminent God. And I'm just going to make this the God of my life because I'm going to invest all of it here. And one of the things to be careful for us is because we live in a world that is highly materialistic.

It's easy for us as Christians to imbue the values that the world has in its relationship to the universe. So what do we mean by that? People in the world who do not believe in God, a transcendent God, not an imminent God can live like this universe is all that is.

So my job, what, what is my life about? It is about getting a great job, making a lot of money, you know, being in a lot of comfort because today we eat live and tomorrow we die. And there's nothing more afterward.

It's a physical universe and that's all there is to life. And we as Christians can tend to be influenced by such thinking. So if I am living in such a way, I may ascent to a transcendent and an imminent God, but I'm not confessing a transcendent and an imminent God in my life.

So this is something that we need to be very careful of because this is the culture we live in. And it is very easy for us to live this way. So it makes sense. Okay. The next one is a pantheism. I, you know, this is the spirituality movements that we have today where they believe in a very imminent God.

Well, it pantheism is pretty complex, but I think if you want to just think of this, this two circles that I mentioned, you know, this God and this universe, they're pretty much one. God is the universe.

If you will, there is no other substance other than God, you know, they, whatever their motivations, there is really, you are God, I am God, this table is God, this, you know, this is all there is. So God is the only existence.

And I actually, is there anyone who has a question on this? We can talk more, but I don't think this is a very tempting situation for most of us, like materialism can be. No, and you're right. I stand corrected.