A Sorta-Road Trip Dividing Line from Conway, Arkansas

I'm sure I look like a complete mess. And this camera wasn't what we were going to be using, but it actually looks better than what we were going to be using. And I'm in a hotel room. So there's books in the background there.

That's a very interesting books. We'll be talking about those over the coming weeks. But anyways, welcome to the dividing line. I am coming to you live from Conway, Arkansas. I was in Abilene, Texas last night, so if you figure that out, it's 524 miles of driving today and not pulling an RV.

Look, it's obviously a lot easier to drive at the speed limit. To be able to go through, you know, drive throughs if you want to park in parking places that normal humans can park in. It is significantly easier to do that.

But the six trips up here with luggage and bags and stuff like that, trying to avoid the ice. Ah, yes. One thing that Phoenicians simply genetically cannot do is walk on ice. Evidently, everybody else can.

But no, not not. No, we will end up. I did that. I remember when I well, no, no one remembers. But in 2019, I was in Samara, Russia. It was 28 degrees below zero. It's not 28 degrees below zero here. And I slipped on ice and just destroyed my knee.

It was my knee or my hip or something. I could barely walk. It was great. So, yeah, Phoenicians and an ice ice goes in a drink. That's the only time you see it. Or if you go to a hockey game. But other than that, you don't see ice.

So, yeah.

So here we are. And we are in a hotel room, a nice hotel room. Very nice. It's a very nice hotel. A nice hotel room. This is this is a nice little little setup here. And it's it's clean. And let me see here.

There you go about there is just fine. And it's going to be getting warmer each day, in fact, by early next week, it's going to be spring like and I'm going to be really missing my RV. But so just I'm not sure how long we're going to go tonight.

I am exhausted for obvious reasons. But there are a couple of things we want to talk about. And we're just testing this out as well. Yes, I just like I have Twitter up. And so if people would like to throw some comments or questions out on Twitter, I, I, I have two screens.

And so I'm able to see Twitter for once here as as well. But someone just posted. And I don't know, I do not know how to show my screen. I'm sure there is a way to do that. But we haven't haven't figured that part out yet.

Or at least Rich doesn't want to complicate it too much for me to do it this way. But someone their Twitter handle, I think, is Midwest versus East or something. It says Midwest now snow everywhere, Midwest in five days, mud everywhere.

Yeah, I can sort of see that the way things are going out there. But I did see some snow. There was a few little flurries, nothing much of anything. Would have been really great back in December to put me in the Christmas spirit.

But no, instead it is in February. So just so that people in this area know. Tomorrow night, I believe it's five o 'clock. I'll be in Perryville. I've put the stuff on Twitter. I'll be with Quattro Nelson and his folks at.

I'm pretty sure it's five o 'clock tomorrow evening. And we're going to be talking about we're going to be talking about something that, according to Stephen Wolfe, is dumb. So it's a dumb Stephen Wolfe topic.

So every every if you listen to the briefing with Albert Moller, every single briefing is dumb, according to Stephen Wolfe. And maybe you can ask him about that when he does Man Rampant in Moscow fairly soon.

That'll be very interesting. In fact, that's very interesting. I guess last week they had Raymond Ibrahim and the Crusades stuff, and then they're going to have Stephen Wolfe up. So that could be very, very intriguing.

Anyway, Stephen Wolfe informed us that the use of the term worldview is dumb. And we should stop using that term. Of course, Albert Moller uses it from a Christian worldview in every single episode of the briefing.

So you've got that going on there. But we will be talking about forming a Christian worldview, why it's important, why it's not dumb and why thinking it's dumb is dumb. And really trying to take it past where it's been.

You know, I remember back in the 90s with Francis Schaeffer and How Then Shall We Live and The Great Evangelical Disaster and showing videos and stuff, and people were just like, oh, this is incredible.

This is awesome.

And it was it was it was fascinating and it was useful and it was interesting. But it was almost sort of like it was out there someplace, you know, I don't think. In the 90s, we had, you know, folks like Schaeffer had seen what was coming.

And I think even the rest of us, when listening to Schaeffer, went maybe. But now it's 2025. We're we're well past all that stuff. And we're dealing with this stuff. I mean, I only listened to it while driving.

Then once I got here, I got to watch it briefly. But what happened with Trump and the governor of Maine today? First of all, I was I was born when Kennedy was president. I don't remember that because he was assassinated before I was a year old.

But so I've been through a few presidents. And Reagan, maybe in some situations, he can be very humorous. But there's just never been a president. And and to be honest with you. I wasn't going to talk about this, but I've been thinking about it.

You have a lot of time to think when you're in the truck. To be honest with you. Trump wouldn't have done what he did today with the governor of Maine if he didn't see it. He was talking about the NCAA and the transgender stuff.

And he then said, but he says, but I hear Maine's not going to submit or something like that. And he goes, is the governor of Maine here? And she was she was over to his right. You've seen you've seen people post things on X and Facebook and stuff like that.

I want to report a murder, you know? Well, that's sort of what it was. I mean, I cannot imagine any president ever. I bet you Teddy Roosevelt would have done it. But Teddy Roosevelt was a long time ago and Teddy Roosevelt didn't have social media.

But I just I just cannot imagine any president in my lifetime looking over at the governor of Maine and just he basically said. That's federal law. If you don't do it, you lose all federal funding. And he basically said, and I think you should be thinking about what you could be doing when you're no longer in public service because you're not going to be reelected.

It's just like.

At the very, very least, the next four years will be extremely entertaining. But I don't think Trump would have done that in his first term. There's a lot of stuff that Trump's doing that I don't think he would that he didn't do in his first term.

And. If he had won in 2020, which I think he did, but if he if if the election had been stolen. He wouldn't have done what he's doing now. It's almost like he took these four years and he went, oh, really?

Oh, so this is how it works. OK, let's get ready to dismantle all of this. And that really. Now, that doesn't mean. You know, there's a lot of stuff going on that's that's very troubling to me. Some of the people he's putting in place, the same people that did the lockdowns, all sorts of stuff.

I still think he thinks he did the warp speed, and I still think he thinks that the MRNA vaxxes were great. And all the number of studies that have come out. On the utter destructiveness of these things, I mean, there are so many people saying that they should never, ever, ever be used again.

And yet the people he's selecting are the people going, oh, this stuff's great. And so there's some real issues there. And we may have a discussion at some point about Elon Musk, because. You know, there's there's so many things that Elon Musk has done that that many of us benefited from.

He has single handedly. Revitalized space, NASA was dying, NASA was D .I. NASA was doing dumb weather stuff, changing data sets to make it look like the Earth is warming and stuff like that. So, you know, there's positive things there, but there's a lot of scary stuff in Elon Musk's background.

His look at his maternal grandfather sometime tried to start the social credit party in Canada. There's there's reasons to be very, very concerned. So anyway, I just. It's going to be a very entertaining four years at the very least, because Trump's coming in going, I only got four years.

I can't do anything more than that. And so let's just. Go at it, and he didn't drain the swamp last time. Now he's nuked the swamp, so it's it's fascinating. So. Back to what I was telling you tomorrow evening.

At Providence, the name of the church, Providence out in Perryville, we're going to be talking about the Christian worldview, forming a Christian worldview and how it's so vitally important now. It's not just a, oh, that was an interesting talk, blah, blah, blah, blah.

If you're talking with your children, or in my case, my grandchildren. You can't you have to talk about worldview, you can't avoid it. You have to be able to explain them, because most kids, if they're being raised right, they're being raised with with a moral foundation and an objective truth.

When they when they see what the governor of Maine's doing. And how she's she's defending boys playing in girls sports because she doesn't believe that there really is a boy and girl. It's how you feel.

It's the gender studies idiocy. And it is idiocy. It's moral insanity. It's foolishness. And it was propped up. By USAID and all these NGOs and all this money laundering. Your great grandchildren's inheritance has been being spent by these evil treasonous people to promote this garbage.

The only reason that there are people literally defending the idea of a of a boy who has to shave racing against the girls and winning in Maine and Oregon and Washington and all these types of things.

The only reason they're doing that is because of the money. That has been poured into the promotion of this stupidity, this foolishness. And it's destructive, so massively destructive of the society and the and the culture at large.

And the United States has been has, you know, the Treasury Department. I'm really wondering if they're going to Fort Knox and discover it's all gone. It's all been shipped out someplace else. It wouldn't shock me.

That would not shock me in the least. Not in the least. The the amount of trust I have left in the federal government. Non-existent, non-existent, there's there's nothing left, there's nothing there.

So you talk to your kids and they want to know, how can someone like the governor of Maine do this? Why would someone want boys to be competing in girls sports? That's not fair. It's not right. And you have to be able to explain this because they have a rebellious worldview.

They they have a set of presuppositions and filters that they have accepted that allow them to rebel against God's truth. And you will encounter people who will respond to you just as strongly as you respond to them because they don't they don't understand that they have been enslaved by the secular worldview.

And so they're living in light of that. So we're going to talk about Christian worldview and communicating that with your kids and all the rest of that neat, fun stuff. Tomorrow night and then on Sunday morning, I'll be preaching at the church as well, and then on pretty sure Monday evening.

I'll be joining one of the classes, so I don't think this is open to public. So I'll be joining the Gospels class to talk about the Jesus seminar and stuff like that. And I need to make sure I think I think Dr. Moore already has this.

But we're going to play some segments from a very entertaining radio program I was on. I was thinking about it, and I'm not sure. I'm not sure how accurate necessarily all the dates on the sermon audio stuff is and stuff like that.

But I'm thinking, and Rich, if you know, I'd be interested in knowing myself. Sure, it's getting a little warm. I think the Robert Funk interview. And now most people today don't know who Robert Funk was.

He has since passed away. But back in the late 80s, there was an organization known as the Jesus Seminar. And again, this is prior to social media. So they got their word out. But, you know, I was thinking that, too.

I was thinking more like 88, 89. I graduated from Fuller in 89. I'd already taken I'd already taken enough classes with a liberal background to be able to engage Funk fairly well. So I was thinking toward the end of my seminary time.

So I think that would have been 88, 89 is is my guess on that. But I and a few other people were invited to come into the studio at KFYI, which is a local talk station in Phoenix. And I had been on. I had been at studio many times with Bob Mohan, Barry Young, and first with Tom Likas, who I think by that time had moved over to L .A.

He was one of the first the original shock jocks. And I don't know how many programs I did on KFYI, but they were. There were a lot there really were.

And I was young.

I mean, if it was 88, I was like 25, 26 years old. And so. We went in the studio to be on the air with Robert Funk, the co-founder of the Jesus Seminar, co-founder, along with John Dominic Crossin. Who I did debate formally up in Vancouver.

Was that in Vancouver? It was before the Alaskan cruise, somewhere up in the northwest. Anyway, wonderful guy. As he sort of liked the idea, I described him as my favorite heretic. And he was. He's a really nice guy.

And Seattle. OK, yeah, Seattle. That's where Red turned the lights off during the debate. Red goatee. Oh, man. We're going back in the past here anyway. But I never met Robert Funk. And so the Jesus Seminar was coming out with a published edition of the Gospels.

That was printed in different colors. And the Jesus Seminar were just ultra leftist. Scholars. Who would get together every few months or every six months or however long it was. And they would study a particular portion of the Gospels and then they would vote.

And they would vote with different colored marbles. And when they come by, you drop the marble in the bag. That represented whether you believed that Jesus had said this, didn't say this, might have said it, probably didn't say it.

They had four different colors, as I recall. And then you count them all up. And then you print. You know, the Gospel of John had almost nothing in it. The Jesus originally said, according to the Jesus Seminar.

But Mark had much more. Matthew and Luke in between. And, you know, this is getting a lot of attention on radio programs and things like that. Again, there's no Internet yet, so it can't go viral and stuff like that.

So it happens a little bit more slowly back in those ancient days. And so we were invited to come on. And. Talk with. Robert Funk. Now, the other guys are on with me, nice guys, but they didn't have any background in this stuff, just to be honest with you.

And as I said, I was at Fuller, so I was reading the same kind of commentary material and theology and Old and New Testament background stuff that would mark where the Jesus Seminar is coming from. So I'm familiar with them, with that kind of stuff.

And so we start the program and I sort of take over because. The other guys are sort of just plain old evangelicals, and they're just throwing stuff out and they're not really throwing stuff out that's going to be relevant to him.

So I do. And after I challenged him on something, we went to a commercial break. I remember I grew up doing radio and I had been on KFYI over and over again. And so I can immediately tell that Barry Young was hearing stuff in his earphones from the control studio.

And I heard Barry Young say, call him back, call him back. And we come back from a break. There's a there's a part of me that goes, this was probably not fully legal. But we come back from the break. And Barry Young says, well, we lost contact with Dr. Funk.

Well, actually, that's not what had happened. And so as you listen to it, the phone rings, he picks it up and Barry, Barry Lynn goes, Dr. Funk, Dr. Funk, we lost the line. He says, you didn't lose the line.

I hung up on you. You hung up on us. And he says, my producer says, you told us to go to hell. And he said, yes, I did. He says, he said, that's a good place for you to go. I don't I don't remember how long he stayed on after that.

It couldn't have been very long at all. And of course, I'm simply trying to get something positive to come out of all of this, because I think he did then hang up later and said, don't call me back. Or whatever.

And so now we've got an hour or something to fill. And I'm trying to get to this important stuff, and I'm not really sure whether I actually accomplished anything or not. So anyway, that was the Jesus seminar experience.

And I think we're going to play a portion of that because Dr. Moore is talking about the gospels and gospel studies and the Jesus seminar and stuff like that. I haven't heard anything about them for ages.

It was it was a function of the Westar Institute. Fungstead, John Dominic Cross is very, very aged. I'd love to get in touch with him again, but I don't know how I could. And so they're sort of little ancient history.

But believe me, they you know, they eventually came out with the scholars version of the gospels and published that a very humbly titled volume. And so I think that's Monday night is when I'm going to be sitting in the gospels class and just interacting with the students on the Jesus seminar and stuff like that.

And then so I believe it's Tuesday night. Open to the public, there will be a discussion and I'll retweet the link here. There we go. On the ecumenical councils, and I'll be focusing primarily on the so-called seventh ecumenical council, and I see a two, but I have to run through the first six because.

Honestly, I wonder what percentage. Of well, I'll use my own church. I wonder what percentage of folks Apologia could name more than. Three ecumenical councils, I'm. I don't think there might be two or three people at max, and that would not include Jeff, Luke or Zack.

They have. Oh, hmm. Now, that's weird. Hold on. Let me look here. Oh, OK. Sorry. Here I am talking about Jeff, Luke and Zack, and immediately my phone goes ding and it's from Luke. So I'm like, I think I better check that.

But he's not listening. Don't worry about. Look. I remember was it Norm Geisler? I think it was Norm Geisler. I remember years ago, a conversation. May have had something to do with the Bible Lanceman broadcast.

But I just remember someone saying, yes, I accept. The first seven ecumenical councils, and I remember thinking. Do you really do you know what do you know what they taught? Are you making a distinction between creedal statements and canons and decrees?

And there's as you as you walk through the councils, as you go from because because what? OK. Everybody needs to know. When the council and I see it was. I've told everybody, if you ever take a church history class from me.

We will have on the final exam. The question, what was the date year of the council? And I see it. The first council and I see it's three twenty five. Three points, three points right there. Everybody needs to know that because the council and I see it is so wildly misrepresented in YouTube and every place else that you need to know, at least when it actually took place.

But even people who know what the council and I see it was, what was Constantine's role? Why did Leonard Verdine, the great scholar that I've mentioned a number of times, why do you use the phrase Constantinianism?

Why do many people feel that the council and I see a marked a major transition? In the history of the church, in regards to the relationship of church and state. And then. Did it get better or worse? Did the nature of it change at the second ecumenical council?

Which is what? See, most people don't know. You know, we could do one of those jaywalking things. You know, Jay Leno, we could do jaywalking. And. We could we could go jaywalking on a seminary campus.

And it would only be the church history nerds that would have any clue. Council of Constantinople, 381. What was it? What was it about? What had happened between Nicaea and between 325 and 381? What was who called the council in 381?

Why were all why were all the first seven ecumenical councils in the east? Then after that, according to Rome, they're all in the West. What was the increasing role? Of. The emperor or empress in Constantinople.

How were these? Because 325, you still have Rome hasn't fallen yet. The city of Rome. But. Islam is going to rise, the West is going to fall. Constantinople stands firm, so. Three of these are from Constantinople, Nicaea is a suburb, basically of Constantinople, so they're all in that same general area.

Ephesus isn't all that far away. So the places of these councils are all in the east initially. And then that changes afterwards. But nobody called them ecumenical at the beginning because no one knew what in the world that was.

That's a later development. And so is it appropriate to look back in history? And look at councils in a way that the people that were there had no earthly idea they'd be viewed that way. As having some kind of almost infallible authority.

So we'll be talking about all that kind of stuff Tuesday night at the seminary. And then Wednesday, I drive up to Jonesboro. And get together with the apologetic dog, Jeremiah, and the folks up at 12 -5 Church in Jonesboro.

And then Friday and Saturday, we have our debates, the two on two debate on the atonement, the one on one debate. Joe Heschmeier and myself from Catholic Answers on the mass as a perpetuatory sacrifice.

Interestingly enough, the topics of both nights are very closely related, which is nice for me. But they are very closely related both on the atonement and really the strongest arguments in both have to do with what the Bible teaches the atonement actually accomplished and the relationship of the atonement to the purpose of God and things like that.

So that's going to come up in both those debates there in Jonesboro. And so if you're in the area, be great for you to come on out and take a look at what we're doing. Let me see here. I did say. Not getting a link.

Are you stopping by Grace Life and Prior on this trip? No, I'm not. Hope you'll do something on the Moeller interview and endorsement of Rigney's book. I saw that he did an interview, but I haven't listened to it.

I am confused by Moeller's endorsement. Big Eva wouldn't platform Wilson or his people for so long. Something's up. Well, I don't know. I don't know what's up. I haven't listened to the Moeller thing.

Of course, Rigney was with Piper for a long time, if I recall correctly. So maybe there was a connection there. Don't know. When it comes to all the insides and politics and stuff, I have no idea. That's an interesting question.

What is the difference between Christ's intercession and mediation? Is he mediating for everyone? I don't think there is a difference. I think those are different English words that are frequently used to translate the same Greek words.

So it depends on which text we're referring to. But there's one mediator between God and man, man, Christ Jesus, who is interceding for us. One's, I suppose you could say mediating and make that it that a verb, too.

Thank you. Nothing like hearing an input from someone with an authentically Christian worldview. Well, thank you, Timothy. I appreciate that. So anyways, those are the only things that I see here. Click here if you want to see the chat.

Well, this could be dangerous. Well, that's weird. Well, there we go. Ah, I can now see the chat. Now, this means I'll get nothing done the rest of the program. This is all I'm going to do the rest of the program is try to read, read all this stuff.

And Rich is talking to people about OBS, which is what I'm using to do the program. Rather than Zoom or something like that. And I'm sure in a second, Zoom will or Rich will be going. Yes, I'll show him how to show the desktop so we can see videos and and put accordance and stuff like that up there eventually.

But yeah, there's there is a chat and I don't know. I again, it's. I'm not sure why I don't bring it up when I'm in the studio, but I have it up there right now because I have a second monitor with me and I'm able to see it.

But there's nothing overly exciting going on in there. But hello, everybody. I'll move it over a little bit so I can actually see some of the stuff. But yes, we've waited many years for this moment. Yeah.

OK. Yeah. One thing at a time, Rich says one thing at a time. All right. Yeah, well, we've got this working. So that's. And there's a camera up here. And when Rich plugged it in back in Phoenix, it worked just fine when I plugged it in.

And then once we decided to go with the laptop camera, it started working. I could tell you some stories from long ago in my past about something like this. But to be honest with you, and Rich mentioned this to Rich said to me, he says, you know, I got to admit the camera on your laptop is really good.

It's amazingly high quality for. Can you imagine how thin that camera is? I mean, I'm feeling the my screen here is. It's astonishing that that there's any kind of image coming from that thing at all.

But yeah, the MacBook Pro has a. Decent camera, so we may end up just using that and just using the light up there as a light for doing the dividing. I'm going to leave all this hooked up so that Monday or Tuesday we can do the program here before I leave for Jonesboro.

And so we'll we'll do that thing. So. OK, I've I've got a few questions here. What PTL rebinds made this trip? That only reminds me to pray, ask everybody to pray for Jeffrey Rice. As you know, he was hit by a truck.

The guy driving the truck, it wasn't his truck, and he was on a suspended license, and so there's no insurance. And, you know, in that situation, let me let me tell you what happens and it won't happen.

But in that situation, from a biblical law perspective. That man that hit Jeffrey. Should have to work. Not be put in prison, not be put in a cage, but he should have to work. Have an absolute minimal subsistence amount for himself.

And then everything else he does work wise should go to Jeffrey to pay his medical costs, not just medical costs, but he can't work. That that should not be for other people to pay for. It should be the person who did this.

That's. That would be biblical law. So pray for Jeffrey and for his his situation. It's got to mention that in regards to PTL rebinds. That's post-tentative results. That's Jeffrey. And the only the only one that made this trip, actually, I should have brought my Greek New Testament, but I didn't.

But, you know, I'm just in the truck. This this trip is my a black Bible, Johnny Cash Bible. It's my Johnny Cash Bible. That's the only one that is on the trip this time around. So then a question. What's the best single resource to reference to learn about apologetics in your mind that there's so many different fields?

You know, I think it's vitally important to. You know, for me. Until Bonson, the popularizations. For that type of apologetics. But obviously, from my perspective, biblical languages, church history, extremely important to be able to evaluate what people are saying.

So, again. Nothing new about this, but I've said over and over and over again, the two classes that have helped me the most as an apologist over 40 years of ministry that I took in Bible college and seminary were church history and Greek.

And so those are. You know, vital. But, you know, when I started doing apologetics, when I started witnessing the Mormons, I had no mentors, I had. In fact. The one book that I read as a. Junior in high school, it was a junior in high school.

The one book that I read on Mormonism before. Was that before I talked to? I'm trying to remember now. I went on an outreach visit for North Phoenix Baptist Church, and I ran into a Mormon lady and. Now I'm a junior in high school.

It was a disaster. When I look back on it now, it was like, oh, wow. Talk about a study and not and what not to do.

I had no idea.

We had we were given no training to be able to do with that. So at some point I picked up Walter Martin's book, The Maze of Mormonism. And that is not the best book on Mormonism. It's just not. Even back then, the far better books were than anything by Gerald and Santa Tana.

Which, of course, I eventually got all they did, but. I really did not have anyone to to to guide me. So when I had that first encounter with Elders Reed and Reese. In July of nineteen eighty two. And that started my studying.

I didn't have anybody I could turn to. I didn't have books that I could go to. Sure, I went to the Christian bookstore and bought every book on Mormonism I could find. There weren't that many. And from my perspective, they weren't all that good.

The vast majority of them that were there. And they're very surface level. And so, you know. I started going to the LDS bookstore. And I bought A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards and Mormon Doctrine by Bruce Omer Konke.

If you have a paper copy, by the way, of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce Omer Konke, keep it. Do not sell it. Do not give it to a used bookstore. If you run across a copy in a used bookstore, buy it. The Mormon Church wants.

I think the Mormon Church may be buying them all up.

We should we should.

Rich, we should put ours in us in that safe that we've got. They may be sending the Danites up. That's what the Danites are doing now. The Danites aren't out blood atoning people. They're out collecting old copies of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce Omer Konke.

So eventually they can go, no, it never said that. So anyways, but I just started as I'd be reading the Christian books and I'd see books being referenced, I'd go buy the book at the LDS bookstore. And that's how my LDS library started to grow.

And nobody told me. Go to the original sources. It just seemed. The only way to do it properly and correctly. Go to the original resources. I wasn't it wasn't like, don't trust Christians, but it was like, well, a lot of these Christians that are writing about Mormonism are former Mormons.

And I knew that if a former Christian who had converted to Mormonism was talking to me, I'd want to check their sources. And so I need to be fair, I need to be consistent. And so that's where I started.

And I didn't have anybody to tell me, do this or the other thing. I just spent hours and hours and hours reading. I still have all those books and all the yellow marking in them. And that then became the foundation of a set of notes.

Rich still has his copy because I don't know how long after that I volunteered volunteered to teach a class on Mormonism at North Phoenix Baptist Church. And I don't remember how long I taught that, but that set of notes sort of got expanded upon and things like that.

And then I passed that class on to Mike Beliveau. And I started teaching a Christian doctrines class. And it was in, I think, that first Christian doctrines class. A guy I knew there at the church named Dave Johnson came up to me after a Christian doctrines class, and he had this this guy with him.

And this guy was wearing a maroon members only jacket. Which I think he still has. Price can still wear it. That's really disgusting, but has sort of crazed look in his eyes. Pentecostal background, charismatic background, really.

And it turned out that guy was named Rich Pierce. Yes, that's where Rich and I, I remember. I remember which building we were in. I remember which direction the the room faced. I remember where Rich was standing and Dave was standing.

And yeah, that's that's where that's where we met. And then if I recall correctly, Rich dived in. And if I recall correctly, for a while. He and Mike team taught the Mormonism class there at North Phoenix.

So, again, all of that to say. It's nice to have a mentor. It's nice to have somebody to show you the way, but if you don't have that, it's. You know, you can you can still accomplish things. And yes, it was maroon.

And he knows it. I'll see here in a moment if Rich admits in public that he used to constantly, constantly wear. Well, OK, you can't constantly wear a jacket in Phoenix at all. But for December, January, February, he always had that maroon members only jacket that he had forever and ever until.

I don't know if he donated it to a museum or just one. So anyhow, there was a specific question about any specific work of until again. And by the way, there's only one L in till then till you know, defense of the faith, Christian epistemology.

I wish and some Bonson's sort of done this, some other people sort of done this. There are more better organized materials on Vento because Vento is difficult to read. There's no question about it's hard to read.

English was not as really his first language. And so he was somewhat obtuse and not as well organized. But I still have all the old PNR Presbyterian Reformed early printings of those books like in courier font.

Horrible monospaced fonts and stuff like that just look terrible. But man, it's just gold mine, gold mine of material. Unless you're a Thomist and then you're you just hate it because the every fourth page, there's a shot across Thomas's bow.

I had a nice jacket. I like red. They didn't make red. Well, that's true. It was not red. It was marine marine maroon, whatever it is. Yes. So good. All right. So so that's what's going on now. Had a conversation while driving today.

Let me double check this, please. I hope this doesn't mess anything up on this. I mean, I've never fired up programs. All this was running to see if it messed anything up. If you're in the come on, stop, cancel.