Refuting Mormonism & MeatFest

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March 21, 2019

Join us for the brand-new episode of Apologia Radio. We talk about Mormons and Mormonism. How do we reach them? We also announce our gifts for MeatFest 2019! Go to http://apologiastudios.com for more content!

00:00: a bonus must stop I don't want to rock the boat I want to sink it are you gonna bark all day little doggie or are you gonna bite?
00:12: delusional yeah delusional is okay in your world view I'm an animal you don't chastise chickens for being delusional you don't chastise pigs for being delusional so you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay it doesn't really hurt desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men the careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage going to all the world make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives right don't go in the world make homies right disciples
00:52: I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness do bear with me for I feel a divine jealousy for you since I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ but I am afraid that as the serpent deceived
01:36: Eve by his cunning your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ for if someone comes and proclaims another
01:45: Jesus than the one we proclaimed or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received or if you would accept a different gospel from the one you accepted you put up with it readily enough that was first century y 'all not long after the resurrection of Jesus that's the
02:01: Apostle Paul talking to a church and he is concerned for them for a false gospel and following and believing in a false gospel another
02:12: Jesus another spirit it was a reality in the first century it is a reality in the 21st century what's up welcome back to another episode of Apologia radio guys
02:21: I am Jeff the calm of the ninja this is the gospel heard around the world you can get more at Apologia studios .com
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02:56: Douglas Wilson dr. James White just a whole slew of people lots of guys are up there
03:03: I don't even I have to go through the list to see who's in Apologia Academy it's amazing hey guys go check it out and when you guys sign up for all access you also partner with us as ministry make everything we do possible
03:13: I'm gonna introduce real fast we have some very good news for everybody this is Zach attack what's up everybody is the director of communications with end abortion now you guys can go to end abortion now calm to get connected with us that is joy the girl how we haven't even announced yet on the radio show today we have yet joy the girl is pregnant she is yes she's feeling very good my prayer go yeah so we've known it for a while and we held off and congratulations
03:45: I was like I need to eat now yeah now I'm like I'll just take a nap now yeah she left the table and she was like she's like can we eat before we start this is like absolutely absolutely don't come in the way of a pregnant woman in a meal amen so praise
04:01: God joy the girl is pregnant we've been praying for this for a long time answered prayers God is good and so so the good news one announces this little hat right here next to me right now is ready to go it is filled with our partners in ministry for our church plant on the island of Kauai all you guys who gave to that work does this know
04:22: I know I just thought it was a prop or something or you were gonna put it on your head you know yeah I'm gonna pull a rabbit out of it actually does some tricks that are pretty cool that I do
04:32: I do love magic tricks when I was 13 to 15 I I used to daily go to the magic store at the mall near my house and I used to work there do magic tricks there and I do work there yeah
04:44: I'm not officially not an official capacity but I did tricks there with for the you know audience and help them sell things and which is why if you're thinking about writing
04:52: I don't know maybe like a discernment article about how Jeff just thinks he's so cool so anyway this this hat is filled with all of our partners in ministry for our church plan an island of Kauai I'll just say this quickly the island of Kauai is wide open for a solid
05:12: Christian church gospel preaching ministry about 70 ,000 permanent residents this it is inundated with the cults and the new age all across the island drug addiction and alcohol addiction is rampant on the island it is wide open captive audience for the gospel and a solid church we're there now
05:30: God has given us a gracious opportunity to bring the gospel in a very very meaningful way to that island you guys who gave towards our church plant
05:39: I want to let you know how much it means to us it is it is so it's it's so important to us that this mission for the glory of God is successful on that island and it means the world to us to have you partner with us in this ministry we really just can't express to you our true gratitude it means so much to us we're grateful to God for his work there for giving us the opportunity to do this and we're grateful to God for each and every one of you so if you gave towards our church plan in the island of Kauai I want you to know each and every single one of you and there were so many of you
06:12: I'm deeply grateful to you from the bottom of my heart it means so much to all of us but we wanted to bless people for being a part of this with us so what we're gonna do is all of our partners in this ministry we're gonna we're gonna select two to just gift with something special where we're gonna fly you out to Arizona we are going to give you a tour of the studio you're gonna meet everybody here at Apologia we are also gonna put you on an episode of Apologia radio and we're gonna take you to our one of our favorite places
06:43: Fogo do Chão and it's a Brazilian steakhouse restaurant where they bring meat on swords it is really a cool experience we've done it before I wish
06:51: I could bring all of you out I truly do but we're gonna pick two people to gift this to and so that that's why this is sitting right here but that's even that's not the great news of the day although it is great news what happened this morning
07:04: Zach while we're doing bringing the gospel to the abortion mill in Acacia hang on guys this is really really good news very exciting tell everyone what happened well
07:12: God in his grace made it possible for us to see fruits of that ministry out there and he saved two children today from death praise
07:21: God two women who incidentally happened to be both eight weeks pregnant between the two of them our team was there they stopped him in the driveway and they ended up turning away from killing their child so it's just it's just amazing the way that God does these things and the timing of it all because I was making a phone call this morning before heading out there to Marcus and our friend
07:51: Elvis who also goes and ministers with us and saying hey Elvis Marcus is there ready to record and get some content and film you guys doing the ministry before I get there and there he was like oh okay so he hung up and then he talked to Sherry who's the lady that also goes out there with us and says hey we need to hurry and get to the sidewalk if they had taken just a little bit longer to get to the sidewalk they wouldn't have encountered that girl going in oh that time amazing and the same thing has happened over and over to us out there where we're either delayed or we're rushing to get there and the timing is just perfect it's always
08:24: God brings someone at that moment yeah to give us someone to minister to and so God's all over this ministry locally and nationally oh yeah within abortion now so yeah
08:35: God saved two babies today and that was in less than two hours of just being faithful just showing up praise
08:43: God so hear that guys two image bearers of God had their lives spared today because of the
08:50: Christian Church going out to proclaim the good news to the women go and fathers mothers and fathers going in and to offer help and so praise the
08:59: Lord for this ministry praise God for all of you guys a partner with us you do need to know also when all of you guys are part of all access with us part of what that goes to is actually to fund all the stuff of the studio so it's not just a like EAN is a ministry of Apologia Church and so is
09:14: Apologia Studios and so like they there's a working together all this stuff really kind of takes a combination of things so when you get towards the all access and you get all that extra content and everything $9 .95
09:25: a month actually helps us to do these things it actually makes it possible so all that we're doing with EAN in Apologia Studios it all sort of works in tandem to make all this ministry possible it's the only time we would use the term synergistic effort synergism yes that's right so praise
09:43: God thank you guys everyone who's watching live right now thank you guys for joining us share this episode we're gonna talk about Mormonism today we meant to do it last week but some stuff came up we thought this would be important to talk about and right on the edge of where the culture is talking about it that was the
09:58: Michael Jackson issue and justice and receiving accusations those sorts of things so that's up right now last week's episode was that you can go to Apologia Studios comm you can listen to it there or you can listen to it and watch it right here on YouTube it's in our channel just go back to last week's episode on Michael Jackson and so that's what we're doing we're gonna do
10:16: Mormonism today and we're gonna talk about meat fest and so that's it anything you want to say before we get started I'm ready no you ready to go oh actually
10:24: I'm gonna keep you guys hanging on I know you guys I'm gonna give everyone a chance to get in here let's do this we were this is only three minutes so hang in there guys we have of course our ministry of end abortion now is is focused in upon engaging the culture with the gospel in the area of abortion so you guys all know that we also want to equip churches nationally and internationally to go and actually bring the gospel to where the killing is taking place we have now over 350 churches who are connected with EAN or somewhere around 350
10:56: I think that are connected with an abortion now that's not 350 people that's 350 local churches we have given them all their training for free we have given them all of their resources for free so that's all a part of what you guys are partnering with us and is making sure those churches really we're not a burden to them we're helping them and so we have churches that really internationally now who are working and saving children's lives where the killing is taking place but we also have a couple other things we want to do with an abortion now in terms of our gospel witness in this area and that's actually engage the culture in the public square with the issue of abortion centered around the gospel and so that comes to all of our social media stuff exposing abortion arguing against it from a biblical perspective but also we're trying to raise churches up across the country to go to their legislature and to actually demand justice for the pre -born children not from a pro -life neutral standpoint but from an explicitly
11:52: Christian gospel centered standpoint on the Word of God we started to do that in November is when we did started putting stuff up and since that time we have
12:04: Christian churches all across the United States of America now who have been going to their legislatures and actually demanding justice for the pre -born as Christians we have where it was happen
12:14: Texas of course Arizona California Florida Pennsylvania yeah a lot of different places
12:22: Alabama was another one so yeah it's happening all across the nation so I wanted you to hear this one we had five wonderful sisters in Christ including your wife that spoke yesterday at the
12:33: Phoenix City Council be in prayer for that the chief of staff of one of the legislators actually came to us and gave us his card and said he wants to work with us and so that was very good news
12:42: I'm gonna be doing that after the show today I'm calling him so be in prayer for me as I call him I wanted to play this particular one
12:49: I'm sure play them all at some point they will be up on this channel so you guys are good chance to look at them but this is
12:54: Crystal Marshall she's a member of Apologia Church and I'll just let you hear because it is absolutely incredible I'm pleading with you to fight for your pre -born citizens
13:26: Proverbs 24 11 to 12 says rescue those who are being taken away to death hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter if you say behold we did not know this does not he who weighs the heart perceive it does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it and will he not repay man according to his work so I ask you council members does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it the
13:52: Lord sees your hearts and your maker is whom you should fear the Bible says in Romans 1 and 2 that God has revealed himself to us in creation all around us and he has written his law on our hearts
14:03: I'm not here today to convince you of the God of the Bible he has already revealed himself to us all
14:08: God's Word is the only objective standard of truth and anything that does not line up with it should be immediately thrown out today
14:16: I'd like to address the argument that abortions should be okay for medically frail babies essentially that some babies are okay to kill because they have health issues
14:24: Psalm 139 13 says about God preformed my inward parts you knitted me together in my mother's womb every child is given life by God it is not our right to destroy innocent life based on fear preference or our perception of quality of life a child in the diagnosis is no less valuable than any other child and it is a command of God not to murder
14:47: Exodus 20 13 doctors cannot play the role in God of God in determining the value of life in the womb nor can parents when a diagnosis is given that child deserves to be fought for with equal value as any other human being created in the image of God raising a special needs child isn't easy
15:04: I should know my daughter was diagnosed with spina bifida at 20 weeks in my womb my husband
15:10: I were told that we could kill her if we wanted based on her projected future of difficulties today our daughter is four years old and is the joy of our lives the doctors were alarmingly off with their predictions and even if they weren't it doesn't make her any less valuable having your baby killed because they're diagnosed in the womb won't save you any heartache we joyfully celebrate her birthday every year instead of mournfully acknowledging the date we had her murdered because we couldn't bear to fulfill our duties as a parent to a child with a disability all glory be to God a medical diagnosis can be difficult but murder is not the solution
15:47: Arizona statute 13 -3 603 makes it already against the law to kill the pre -born in our state therefore please uphold your duty as a lower magistrate and resist the tyranny of a higher magistrate an unjust law by declaring
16:03: Phoenix a sanctuary city for the pre -born thank you I say one thing yes please do you have to just think for a moment about how different this is compared to the typical pro -life person that goes to engage at this level because we watched this the other day online in Nevada actually we had a sister in Christ yes speak there before our magistrate and everyone before her and after her on the pro -life side who was speaking to the legislature was talking about the importance of abortions effects on the health of the mother the mother's mental state depression suicide how it harms women all of this stuff no no mention of Christ no mention of gospel no quoting scripture nothing like that and then all of a sudden the sister in Christ faithfully gets up on the microphone and she starts talking about not murdering how
16:51: God defines this as murder how these magistrates need to govern in such a way that honors God and it's about the gospel and protecting these children just that the striking difference in contrast between the approach of the pro -life movement yeah and someone who's actually standing on scripture and quoting the
17:08: Bible in the way that they address the magistrates like it's supposed to have a binding effect on their behavior yes and their judgment yeah like it's actually supposed to make a difference in that and so you look at two approaches like that and we just have to understand that that's what we're talking about when when we're bringing this into conflict with the public square we're not going to them and begging them for something we're telling them what
17:32: God commands of them and demanding that they obey him and that's the difference because the sad part about it is the pro -life approach to this is not much different than the modern evangelical churches approach to put to the presentation of the
17:46: Christian gospel try Jesus right once you please come to Jesus please please it's a pragmatism it's a begging pragmatic approach as opposed to a faithful sister in Christ that gets up there stands on scripture and tells them what
18:01: God commands of them and you have to obey yes because Jesus is the boss cuz he's the king the
18:06: Lord he's the one that your authority comes from by the way yeah and so you have to govern in such a way as it pleases him yeah because you're accountable you want to say something that joy no
18:16: I was just saying that just that's what we see all over the place today yeah don't don't get an abortion because it'll make you feel really bad about yourself yeah and but that's not really which is not really yeah oh yeah destroy oh it will it will make them depressed they will abuse substances as a result they will take their own lives statistics show that but that's not what
18:38: I'm standing on to say here's why you shouldn't do it right there's all kinds of very practical benefits to the way that God has governed and created this world yes but that's not why we're supposed to be obedient to him that's right that's right so hey guys praise
18:54: God for that this is happening across the country as Zack mentioned Ellie Ellie May in Las Vegas or outside of Las Vegas spoke before her
19:05: City Council and he's right you should see that video and I'm able to put up on apologia somewhere should see that video to see the stark contrast between how the pro -lifers will address this problem and how
19:15: Christians engage this in the public square it is a stark contrast I think the woman who went before Ellie May actually was talking like arguing in terms of well it was it was that kind of thing it was like you should you guys should read this the study that was done in New Zealand about about this and the impact on women's emotional health
19:33: I think you just give it a chance it's like APA yeah American Psychological Association do the study so right there you have two different authorities yes
19:41: I'm pointing to this survey that was done and then Ellie make it's up there and says actually
19:46: I'm pointing to God's Word yeah that's my authority yeah turn to Jesus right that's right all right guys meet fast yeah yeah yeah the gift the gifts that we want to give away to two of you again if you guys are just joining us so grateful for every single one of you who gave towards Apologia Kauai I cannot thank you enough
20:08: I don't have the words for it but we wanted to do something just to bless all of our team who's part of this ministry with us and if you gave you are part of this ministry with us we wanted to find some way to be a blessing and just bless it at least two of you and so that's what we're gonna do right now so we have everything is in this hat right now in terms of we wanted to do it in a way that that you guys gonna watch and we would do it to celebrate and so I'm gonna drumroll drumroll please and gonna that's hard there's a lot and there's there's a ton in here so of course
20:47: Brian Brady number one Brian Brady praise
20:53: God yes yes yes Brian Brady so that right there and then there's so many
20:59: I had a feeling yeah seriously Brian is such a huge supporter okay
21:06: I hope I don't pull him again oh man oh by the way I didn't say that because like Jeff's picking right no it's yes yeah he's a huge supporter and Clinton Butler Clinton Butler so there you go we got
21:29: Brian Brady and Clinton Butler there you go guys and want to just say thank you and for those of you guys that are supporters of us and you bless us all time just know that we want to do these things kind of a regular basis just because we want to find some way to bless all of you guys who are part of this ministry with us there is
21:49: Apologia Church proper and then there is all of our brothers and sisters around the world who participate with us in this ministry you are as valuable to us trust me and all that God does here at Apologia whether it's our ministry and outreach to the cults to atheism if it's engaged in the culture if it's issues of justice whatever the case may be whatever we're doing the issue of abortion saving lives when you guys partner with us financially you make this possible this
22:15: I want to just say something it seems obvious it should be apparent to all of us this this isn't free it costs it costs money like it costs money to keep the lights on it costs money to get places to engage at legislatures and to bring the gospel there it costs money to go around the world to equip the church we went to Australia right and New Zealand back in November and since coming home now there are
22:39: Christian churches and ministries who are engaging the issue of abortion abortion in Australia and New Zealand we got word that there was actually a save not long after we were there they actually saved a life if we went there just for that if we went there just for that it was worth it but I know it wasn't just for that because we were able to speak in both
22:56: Brisbane and Sydney and in Christ Church New Zealand to a number of Christian churches it was truly an incredible experience very humbling and all that took place because of you that's the truth because of you you you gave towards it you made it all possible so those lives that are being saved there right now is because you're in partnership with us as a ministry and so we're just tremendously grateful and we just we just can't thank you enough so again mr.
23:23: Brian Brady and Clinton Butler I'm not even sure Clinton I'm not a familiar name to me no no so he probably goes by he might we just have full names yes we have yeah the don't like usually there's many people that don't go by the name that's on there yeah so we'll their card we're not sure where Clinton's coming from we happen to know who
23:46: Brian Brady is he's been a big supportive apology at church forever forever and Brian is from Utah and so Clinton not sure excited to meet your brother thank you so much for giving towards this and again thank you guys every one of you guys who are a part of this thank you so so so much all right let's do this guys let's get right into it so first thing
24:05: I started the episode today and I talked about other Jesus's other Gospels other spirits this important subject because we are in a time now and I'm sure we can all talk about especially with joy with sheologians and summer in terms of like Christians sort of slipping off a cliff in the
24:20: West and in so many different ways theologically within church communions whether it's even big organizations moving towards Marxist principles and those sorts of things you have of course the general evangelical move towards us an abandonment of the objectivity of Scripture and the ultimacy of Scripture standing on it as the ultimate and declaring it
24:41: I mean perfect perfect examples that we just mentioned about Las Vegas you have people I'm sure the pro -lifers that were there who were professing
24:48: Christians right but their their standard of opposition isn't no certainly don't mention the
24:53: Bible you certainly don't want to mention Jesus you certainly don't want to call people to repentance and so there's just a sort of a slipping off the edge in many many different ways and so we are in an interesting time where there are even people who are professing
25:06: Christians that will say things like you know well I mean they'll even adopt what the culture says about truth like you know your truth is your truth my truth is my truth like well
25:15: I believe in Jesus but I mean they say they do too so they're fine leave them alone can you share can you share and this is powerful hey check this out you got to hear this story because it is moving and ugly
25:26: I think you heard him talking about this can you tell everybody about what happened to you the other day at the abortion mill with a professing
25:33: Christian in terms of what the guy said about conflict and then the hugging and everything else tell everyone because this is a premier example of exactly what
25:41: I'm talking about yeah so I was out at the abortion mill preaching locally and there was a gentleman that came and stood behind me on the sidewalk for several seconds before I finally turned around and just said something to him
25:53: I just turned around and I said can I help you because he was almost uncomfortably close he was like standing almost directly behind me just watching over my shoulder and so I said hi sir can
26:02: I help you and he said I just wanted to see what a big hypocrite you really were and I didn't know this gentleman but we ended up going back and forth for a few minutes about the legitimacy of us being there what was happening inside the abortion mill babies are being murdered and as Christians we should be there opening our mouths to try and stop it and he condemned me for confronting those who were going in and he said that that was something that Christ would never engage in that was actually conduct that was unbecoming of a
26:35: Christian to do something like that and so he continued to say that I was a hypocrite although he didn't really define really what he meant at the time and he said if you want to understand what
26:48: Jesus would do if he was here right now and what Christianity true Christianity looks like I'll show you watch this and he turned from me and he walked across the parking lot to the row of escorts these are the women that escort women in to murder their babies the ones that greet them when they park and put the umbrellas in front of their faces and chirp in their ears so that way they don't listen to us and listen to them he went across the parking lot to give them all hugs individually and so he hugged these women who many of which have murdered their own children by abortion and who are escorting other women in to the clinic to do the same and then as he was coming back
27:30: I was asking him just simply because it occurred to me I said sir is it wrong to confront people and he said no it's not going to confront people and I said okay well just a moment ago you condemned me for confronting these women and you said that that was wrong while standing there and confronting me for doing the wrong thing and so it's your hug right right there you go so I said sir it's actually you that's the hypocrite today you are demonstrating your hypocrisy here today in condemning me for the very thing that you're guilty of right and then you walk across that parking lot and you speak peace peace when there is no peace right you have no care for these children or these women whatsoever and I found myself of course getting
28:17: I just have zero patience especially for a man that walks across the parking lot and hugs these women that are sentencing these babies to death mm -hmm and when you tell him there are children being murdered behind those doors and you just walked over there and you supported the the aiders and abettors mm -hmm that's what you just did right now you're saying that that was a peaceful Christ glorifying act that you just committed yeah and you are so wrong about that sir oh yeah he chastised me for for not reading the
28:51: Bible as I was trying to as I was quoting scripture to him even and he ended up leaving but I just in retrospect
28:59: I was wondering if I was too harsh in my condemnation of his hypocrisy after he condemned me but I felt justified because I just have zero patience for a man that's supposed to be acting like a man do something like well all
29:14: I would say about that in terms of like really managing that like where you have to actually be brutal with somebody with the truth like we supposed to speak the truth and love respect gentleness patience however however there's a balance to that in terms of where there is wickedness and hypocrisy of that degree that has the kind of impact that it does like going to hug death squirts and offered the women who are leading children in to be taken to pieces like going to offer them solace and encouragement is such a wicked wicked act and you gave an example of what would happen if that was outside Auschwitz that's right going to hug the
29:50: SS officers like you know we love you so much it's like they are killing Jew gassing Jews tonight with little babies like go look at the pile of shoes being left behind friends so when you see somebody who is obstructing the gospel actually violently obstructing the gospel stopping your proclamation of the truth and stopping you from saving babies from death all
30:09: I would say is this look to the modern evangelical go read the book of Acts yeah go read the book of Acts and watch the
30:16: Apostles when they were confronted with an occultist when they were confronted with somebody who's trying to stand in the way of the proclamation of the gospel when they're actually trying to block it and be the the wall between you and the person you're trying to reach look at how the
30:32: Apostles handled that kind of obstruction they did not play with severity severity very very severe and so I mean striking somebody with blindness like you know and I like I don't know was that loving harsh you know so so when you look at moments like that like for example we even put up a video and this tells you the typical evangelical culture we're in put up a video the other yesterday of us outside the abortion mill and this is getting into Mormonism guys very very much so so hang with us guys it you know it is it is very much the thing that needs to happen for between us and Mormons to reach them with the gospel but this is the evangelical culture we're fighting against put up a seven minute video yesterday it's of 30 minutes of preaching outside of the
31:15: Planned Parenthood in Tempe and what happened was was one of the death squirts drove out and you can see it in the video it's right underneath this one
31:22: I think in our channel you can see one of the death squirts drive out and she drives out and she she says something to me and I didn't hear what she said it was something you know like you know like you know some insult it's just mumbling after just mumbling yeah and so I turn around like what's that ma 'am and I call her to repentance and faith and then when she drives away here's a woman who's there regularly leading children into their death and encouraging moms who were doing it and she drives away and I see on the back of her cars all these social justice stickers and you know typical woke kind of stuff and then
31:52: I see one that says Black Lives Matter now this is a woman who's actually led so many black lives to their death right who encourages it on a daily basis who's part of the industry that's killing the most black people as an industry and she has the audacity to have a
32:08: Black Lives Matter sticker on the back of her car it was stunning to me and that was a moment where I wasn't addressing the women who went in right
32:15: I'm not talking to the moms who are getting out of their cars to go kill their babies I who that we want to minister to I'm talking to the actual death squirts who are there blocking us with umbrellas and singing into the women's ears and trying to encourage them and it's okay sweetie it's okay honey how many black lives have been ended because of these death squirts who who who could possibly know but God and so I saw a
32:41: Black Lives Matter sticker and so I called it out with a very very firm hand but I also in the midst of it also called out to the death squirts and told them how valuable they were to us and how they needed to turn to Christ but there are moments where you do have to just speak the truth and you have to be willing to take the consequences whatever comes comes and of course harsh language for the sake of harsh language is just a sin and if you see somebody who's engaged in constant harsh language just like the nature of their language they can't speak without being rough and abrasive and hard like it's like something's wrong because not every context calls for the harshness and you don't see that in Jesus or the
33:21: Apostles however you do see Jesus giving very very harsh language and condemnations to the degree that they wanted to kill
33:30: Jesus who doesn't know Jesus would always be sweet nice to people is do you think that that's why they wanted him dead because he was always super sweet and nice to them meek and my entire crowds of people would turn away right like everyone's leaving
33:41: Jesus because they couldn't because they just didn't want any more hugs right that was it that's what this comes down to is the way that the prophets of the
33:49: Old Testament Jesus and his Apostles engaged the culture and called out hypocrisy or people that were impeding the proclamation of the gospel as Christians we can't adopt a standard of piety that is higher than their conduct yeah we can't say it's holier to just be sweet all the time right because Jesus would never do that well he did do that and it's plain in the pages of Scripture yeah well evident it's very clearly obviously there are moments in Bible where it says like don't be hasty and don't be angry when you call especially a brother a fool yeah but also it says to call out foolishness and there is tons of I mean their entire their entire books of the
34:33: Bible that are all about what is a fool yeah and how to address that person and what their life is gonna look like and I think that a big problem that we see from Christians specifically wanting to step back and just bring people around and make
34:53: Jesus palatable and the Bible palatable to people is that you see what should be the most logical well -spoken group of people
35:04: Christians and they don't know they don't know how to think they don't know what a hypocrite is a hypocrite is just someone who is doing a thing that I don't like and that I don't think
35:15: Jesus would do but and no one has ever actually challenged them to say do you believe in the
35:21: God of the Bible because if you don't you're not a Christian and you know what that's okay like not everyone has to be a
35:29: Christian I would you know we're not gonna stop evangelizing but the point is if you're not a
35:35: Christian what what do you need to call yourself one for if you don't believe in Jesus if you really believe in a
35:41: Jesus that would only hug people who are assisting in the slaughter of children you don't believe in the
35:49: G in the Jesus of the Bible and that's who we're talking about here yeah that's where the
35:54: Apostle Paul comes in and says I'm concerned for you right because you're being led astray to a different gospel and a different Christ yeah and this
36:03: Christ yes can't save yes and hit that supposed good news is not gonna save anybody so when
36:10: I'm at the abortion mill like today and I'm calling out to women and I see a car in the parking lot and I know that this car in the past has parked next to us and specifically set off their car alarm to try to drown out the sound of our voices and then
36:22: I look at the bumper sticker on that same car and it's to one of the largest Christian churches here in the valley yeah
36:28: Wow something is dreadfully wrong yeah with our brand of Christianity yeah dreadfully yeah well and we're trying to we are we have we said the
36:40: God of the Bible is too mean and people aren't gonna like him they're gonna stop coming to church and and so we had to well and we're cowards that's the biggest reason why the biggest reason why is that we don't want to tell anyone something that they don't want to hear so what we did is we decided that we needed to make this
36:58: Jesus this gospel this Bible into a version that is very nice and people will come around to and no one like no one can no one should look at you as a
37:08: Christian and think whoa crazy alert or anything like that but the Bible actually promises you that people will do that right they will not just think you're crazy but they will hate you for it and then the
37:19: Bible says don't worry they don't hate you yeah they hate me they're yelling against me right and it's not a problem with there is nothing that we can do that is gonna make haters of God hate
37:31: God bless that's not gonna happen that's the spirits work right and so there is there's some there's a really wicked form of idolatry which is that we think we know better than God like we're acting on his behalf and like oh we'll bring more servants let's bring more glory to you but but but what we really need to do is we just need to pull back a little bit and we really need people to think that Jesus was just about hugging and not actually anyone's salvation right right it was it wasn't
38:00: Jesus sweetness and hugging that got him put before the legislature of his day and where everyone is saying crucify crucify
38:07: Oh Jesus or the the murderer Barabbas not give us Barabbas yeah and kill that guy well why he only is giving away hugs like he's just being sweet no like this comes on the heels of you read
38:20: Matthew that comes in the heels of like Matthew 21 22 23 when this is where Jesus comes into Jerusalem he's like and here's your tables and he goes and this little tree right here you yeah curse you no more fruit ever from you again and let that mountain be cast into the sea of course reference to Israel and then he goes and let's see here and God's gonna have this wedding feast and the word goes out no one who was invited it's coming so he's gonna send his armies to burn your city down and then he's also gonna take the kingdom of God away from you and give it to others that will actually produce fruit and so Jesus is like he's talking to them and they know it this is why they're so angry cuz he's like you're saying
38:59: God's gonna kill us he's gonna take away our entire religion he's gonna do that like what do you what are you saying
39:05: Jesus and the Jesus is like and Matthew 23 woe to you that's by the way not
39:11: Jesus going whoa you good job bro he's saying woe to you woe to you woe to you which means the curse of the eternal sovereign
39:20: God upon you like now like the curse of God on you he says woe do you watch blind guides hypocrites pretenders fakes where's the loving sweet Jesus who's coming up and just sort of like rubbing up against him like yo you want to get some coffee or you know you want to hang out in the
39:39: Starbucks and just chit -chat about spirituality Jesus is like I'm you're gonna die and you're blind and you're a fool and you're a fake that's what
39:48: Jesus is saying and guess what that's what got him killed and some of you all today evangelicals today would love to come alongside
39:55: Jesus after reading the New Testament and they'd like to go I'd like to help him out on how he can get more followers because he turned away so many people right there's so many people he could have potentially gotten into his church in his fall but he just turned him away and and it's like that's how they view
40:11: Jesus let me help Jesus be better at Jesus and I know we're being silly and tongue -in -cheek with this but I can't take credit for this but Paul Washer gave a message recently he said something that was profound in terms of this point he said what we've done in the modern evangelical context is we've dressed up Christ's bride the bride that he shed his blood for and gave his life for we've dressed her up like a prostitute and we've tried to use her as a means to attract carnal men mm -hmm and that's the best description church
40:39: I could have ever heard pleasing to the eye of the world basically mm -hmm right so that's right done and so with that that gets us to the context of our engagement with Mormonism this is all wrapped up together friends all of it is together this is why it's so critical in terms of refuting
40:54: Mormonism and that word even itself refuting Mormonism that's right taking the claims of Mormonism and Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and Orson Pratt Orson Hyde and all the modern
41:05: Mormon prophets and apostles taking their truth claims and refuting them in the light of Scripture calling it out as false not true false gospel false
41:13: God you will go to hell for all eternity if you do not turn to the true and living
41:20: Christ and experience the grace of God and the gift of salvation in him and if you continue to follow the false
41:25: God of Mormonism the false Christ of Mormonism you will spend an eternity separated from God like to say that nowadays with the evangelical culture is like like maybe invite him over for a barbecue first well and typically especially with Mormonism the response would just be well they're
41:44: Christians and that's certainly what the Mormon would say yeah but that just comes from we're talking about this postmodern world that believes so you can say something like Christianity something with a definition and a history and a creed an objective me right yeah and it just kind of means whatever you think it means it's the same thing we deal with with with feminism
42:04: Christian feminism specifically people just say oh well I just think that men and women are equal and it's like that's not just what feminism is and so you can't just be a
42:14: Christian and believe whatever you want that's right so you there is an objective standard by which we can assess yeah who is a
42:23: Christian and who is not well and I'm not I'm not referring to salvation right necessarily but I'm saying like in terms of belief and what and enjoy it let's maybe we can it's a perfect way to segue into what we were getting at here the
42:38: Apostle Paul early early on I mean not long after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus it's not long
42:43: I mean the second Corinthians is not far after the Jesus rose again from the dead and it's really interesting when you read it like if you read like large chunks of the
42:51: New Testament yeah together it you realize it really didn't take place not like far remarks in Galatians I am astonished yeah how quickly how quickly you were deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ to another gospel like I'm really shocked which is really not another there's some who are troubling you and trying to pervert the gospel of Christ that's like it's
43:14: Galatians and arguably one of the earliest right written right and he's like I can't even believe this yes you're already you're already deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ for another gospel you're already gonna abandon
43:25: Jesus and his work and his grace for this substandard thing and what Paul does is in in 2nd
43:32: Corinthians 11 what he's saying there and look what he says just in terms of just hear it and how what he puts it on he says
43:40: I'm afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ so he's putting this like you remember how
43:47: Satan deceived like I'm worried about you in that same respect and for what like you'll be following another
43:53: Christ another gospel another spirit that cannot save you and when he says is I'm worried these people are gonna come in and they're gonna preach a false
43:59: Christ he goes and you might put up with it like that's that's 21st century evangelicalism guys it is like you know well
44:08: I don't I mean come on is it's a little off it's like you know even a popular situation happening right now with a modalist speaking against abortion and everyone's like oh this guy's
44:17: Christian he makes all kinds of great Christian viral videos if he's a modalist he's a heretic he doesn't know
44:23: God he has a different God a different reason that matters is because the
44:28: God that's a false can't save you that's right that's right and so we should say that we shouldn't as Christians yield to a false
44:37: Christ and a false God and a false gospel I mean here's the thing look we have so many people that we partner with in ministry
44:44: Anglicans Presbyterians Baptists non -denominational denomination like all like we're all together but what we're all centered around like the essential truths like the gospel and who
44:58: God is and like we're all together we might have disagreements like I got Anglican I got reformed Anglican pastors that I'm like buddies with and we have like side issue debates like side issue debates careful though Anglicanism is in a disaster situation right now so don't just go
45:12: I can go to Anglican Church oh no no no even Anglicans will tell you that no no no there's a brand of Anglicanism that's safe right now and not all but like we're fine we're good we work together we preach the same
45:23: God same gospel like you can have these differences the adiaphora stuff look just have a cup of coffee with graciousness over those issues love each other serve each other don't destroy each other don't destroy each other over those things like if you if you don't like tattoos okay but like let's not separate because of that issue like let's have an in -house debate and let's work together with the gospel over that issue you know if you if you think that I don't even know like if you like I think you should only at the most have a guitar in worship but nothing above a guitar like no drums no nothing adiaphora like let's work that all of our time together that's not central stuff around the gospel like like let's allow our differences and let's keep our arms in each other's arms and like let's serve the
46:03: Lord our God together but when you talk about a different God like you're not even you're not even talking about the same family this isn't the family of God like when you're talking about bringing somebody in just because they use the name of Jesus into a
46:16: Christian event for the purposes of ending abortion who's a modalist how dare you how dare you accept that kind of falling off the theological cliff yes it's vital yes it's important because here's the thing ready let's let's take two things and this is all in the
46:33: Mormonism discussion it really really is Joseph Smith says Jesus Christ is one
46:40: God among many gods he's the spirit offspring of Heavenly Father one of his goddess wives who was also a man one day who has a
46:46: God before him and all the way back to Jesus a spirit brother Lucifer but you're like but they said his name is
46:52: Jesus though Jesus Christ it's like and then well let's move on to the Muslim well the
46:57: Muslims say that they denied that Jesus even died and rose again like that atonement wasn't that was not real like Jesus didn't die like and rise again from the dead but they still say
47:07: Jesus Christ peace be upon him like as though like that's the Jesus we're talking about or Paul's talking about or you can have the
47:15: Jesus of the Rosicrucians or the Jesus of the New Age or just run along down and just start saying everybody has the name
47:22: Jesus Christ like everybody uses it but which one is the real Christ which one's the Jesus that actually can save which one's the one a man or was he just a made -up like force that you just decide kind of who he was for you oh actually that's good
47:37: I'm glad you said it like that that's actually a powerful villain with your own meaning great because watch this this is big you see that the
47:44: Apostle John Apostle Paul were fighting against Gnosticism early on it's in a New Testament itself and that was one of the great enemies of the
47:50: Christian Church in the second century of the church was Gnostics who would deny denied that God would take on flesh because the world is evil it's tainted it's full of you know sin and God would never taint himself with this earthly thing and so the fact the idea that God would take on flesh to become a man is just so far beyond what
48:10: God would ever do come on Christians God would never do that he was just a spirit he was just a spirit and you know what the
48:16: Christians were saying to that let that burn in hell forever that idea let it never come across the lips of a true believer and that Jesus cannot save you that's another
48:26: Christ that's another gospel and so that's that's a key thing too because you know you have Gnostics in the first and second century they're also using the name of Jesus and they were the enemies of the
48:35: Apostles and condemned and so now we come to 21st century now we've got everyone going
48:40: Jesus Jesus Christ like here's my version of Jesus well the Bible says there's only one I'm the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father but by me
48:48: Paul says if you got a different Christ different gospel can't save you can't so who is your Jesus now
48:53: Mormonism teaches another Christ I gave you a picture of that a moment ago I said they believe you have my father sex with his goddess wives
48:59: Jesus Lucifer and then Jesus comes down early Mormon prophets and Apostles taught that he was a polygamist atonement began in the garden finished on the cross your works end up being your salvation into exaltation because what's the ultimate goal of Mormonism it's not salvation general salvation is available to everybody because this
49:18: Jesus rose again from the dead so everybody's gonna be generally resurrected we got these three kingdoms thing like which one you're gonna go to celestial terrestrial terrestrial or telestial there's this thing called outer darkness which
49:30: Mormons today are like I don't really know if that really is a thing and you know if that's really an issue like everybody right there even within Mormonism there's a changing of the guard so to speak with what's acceptable and what's really true and what's kind of they're really squishy oh yeah you see a lot of different religions sort of defanging a lot of their more controversial parts like the parts that would actually send someone somewhere negative where they would be punished or something hey look at this this is why
50:00: I love doing live videos hey look what someone just said here hate in terms of guys the necessity of this ministry and what
50:05: God does to God alone be the glory we are just vessels we are just broken vessels we we jars of clay jars of clay we do not have special things about us that make us so unique and amazing everything you see is a gift of God but look
50:19: Samuel make sure I don't I don't want to offend you your name it moolahs moolahs he says
50:24: Jeff I'm so thankful to you I used to be a Mormon and because of you I was able to understand the gospel properly and now my passion for Christ and the word is stronger than ever so why what's important about this there you go
50:35: Samuel your whole life is why I did this if this whole life if this whole ministry if everything existed for you to come to know
50:42: Jesus we believe it was worth it it's a life well lived that is the truth and so people say like why are you doing this ministry why do you care because Samuel that's why
50:52: I care because Samuel I think the misunderstanding of not wanting the church to sound mean is that so well the implication there is that we just want to be mean to people right right but really the point of you saying what you said to Mormons is that it's true yes and you are leading them you're attempting to lead them away from a false
51:15: Christ and to the true Christ yes so that they can be saved and have peace and not be foolish and yeah it's ultimately it's a form of love that we have vastly misunderstood yeah in our culture and just as we go on to the next step here just to answer some of your live questions for you guys are listening live thank you guys for doing that please share this content with everybody help us to get the word out someone said here
51:42: Manuel Silva says what I'm trying to say is I would love to see Jeff Durbin debate Steven Anderson live so Steven Anderson's followers could see the truth face to face we would love to do that we've offered that in a number of times
51:52: Steven Anderson he is afraid to do public debates is what I believe he won't do them and yeah he basically likes to hide behind a camera and so make all kinds of false allegations and pray for him pray for those who are under his influence but we've tried to get him debate and he won't he won't do it he's he's
52:11: I believe scared to do that okay so let's see here all right let's go right into let's play let's play an example want to do that sweet let's do an example so for those guys are listening right now encourage you guys if you're new to apologia joy has a an amazing show you need to check out it's sheologians so for all especially for all the ladies who are here in the feed right now go to go to apology of studios calm you can go to programs sheologians is there listen to her in summer it's an amazing show or you can go to sheologians calm you can check it out over there as well and if you look here in this channel on YouTube you can go through hundreds of videos where we're engaging with Mormons and atheists and things like that but hours and hours and hours of content and teaching on Mormonism so this is just sort of a just a little taste today so here let's see here
53:00: Mormon this is probably right here let me play this one Mormon couple argues with Christians at the temple this is during our temple evangelism this is a
53:06: Mormon couple that I believe walked up to Perry who was there and this is a little sample of the conversation prayed about that and they believe it with all their hearts so where do we go for actual solid truth do we go to God in his word yes in God's and you're not not his word you take his word you look at it you study it you emphasize it and then you go on your knees and pray to God that it's what you think that says it means it's true okay can
53:34: I ask you a question in an eyes you catch that sure you go to the Bible sure you go to the
53:39: Bible and then you go you pray you study and then you just come to whatever conclusion that you think it means right it bought us it this man doesn't really believe that he doesn't really believe it in any other part of his life except this moment because if he wrote something if he wrote something down and he handed it to ten people and they all came back with their own wild -eyed views of what he wrote and what he was talking about he would say excuse me
54:07: I said nothing like that don't you know how the written word works right didn't you read it in context
54:15: I didn't say anything like that remotely like that he wouldn't hold to this standard in any other area of his life he wouldn't not if he's gonna live in a rational or meaningful way he doesn't do that and and and you you know just in terms of how we live in this world and his image bearers of God and and the the light of God in our lives each and every one of us that every image bearer of God knows you can't live like that but in this area where he knows that his faith contradicts the living
54:45: Word of God he has to set up an ulterior alternate standard where he says well you just come to your own conclusions and you know that's that's how you figure it out yeah which in and of itself is what
54:55: Romans 1 says about a sinful suppression of the truth that's right in this one area there is something else that is overriding the principle of Scripture that's right and that's what he has to hold down that's right they have 4310
55:05: God says before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me but as a
55:12: Latter -day Saint don't you believe that there were gods before God and you can become one one day come on yes yeah and so what would you say to God there why is it said the same thing be there for perfect sure your father that was perfect yeah about about righteousness but that's not about becoming a god one day what yes it is well it'd be there for perfect even as your father that has to do with righteousness not becoming a god if you if you're perfect you become a god yeah that's it's definitely not what the
55:42: Bible teaches that's also not logical and that was in the context of Jesus talking about righteousness and holiness kingdom righteousness nothing about becoming a god one day and this is also the danger in terms of engaging with the modern
55:58: Mormon just know this and and I think you you grew up you're born and raised in Arizona and oh yeah yeah everywhere yeah so more
56:05: Mormons and we're aware of this I mean I went to Gilbert High School my last like six months of school and I saw it there and it was like wow this is incredible you have
56:14: Mormon seminaries that are set right outside of local Arizona schools in the valley and what
56:20: Mormon teens will do and kids will actually depart from classes or school and they'll go over to get trained in Mormon seminary and what you just need to be aware of and if you're in a place like this is that these teenagers have been equipped through high school years on how to answer
56:35: Christians to respond at least they used to be I'm not sure what they're doing now to be honest with you but they used to be trained on how to talk to Christians and one of the things that they're taught is is to proof text and so they used to at least back when
56:47: I first started engaging with Mormons you used to get surrounded by Mormon teenagers they'll be flipping out proof text with you constantly
56:53: I've seen a lot a lot that's a rarity now but it's been a lot less of that but they used to just just whip them out like this be you perfect as your
57:01: Heavenly Father is perfect that means you become a God one day that's one verse let's go to that text and let's see what the context is what's being said there another one is like you know you say you know you guys believe you can become gods one day and they'll say well
57:14: Paul says there be gods many and Lords many and Christians go really I don't even know where and it's like can we open to 1st
57:23: Corinthians chapter 8 for a second here do you realize that that thing that you quoted is literally sandwiched between two verses that say that there's only one
57:30: God like it's literally you go Oh Paul's referring to all the false gods and idols in the world
57:35: God's many and Lords many so -called gods that's like it's a proof check it's just sort of a whip it out and throw it at the
57:41: Christian what we have to do is say go to the text what does it actually say and again this man wouldn't do this in any other area of his life
57:46: I'm convinced of it I at least I hope not it's what Mormonism teaches but that that's definitely contrary to what
57:52: Scripture says no see to me it doesn't well what would you say to God when he says before me there was no God form neither shall there be after me
57:59: I wouldn't it wouldn't be an issue with me I wouldn't say anything to him even though even though that that fundamentally denies what you believe about God when
58:06: I stand before God and if it's an issue then we're dealing about it then I guess
58:15: I mean if Romans chapter 3 means anything you're gonna stand before God and not give an excuse for anything that's not gonna be a time to talk he will deal with it then yeah and that's not that's like what like a part of me wants to laugh and a part of me wants to cry when he said that because that's not you can't
58:33: I don't I just can't imagine first of all I can't imagine standing for God yeah but I also can't imagine it's not a day to come reason yeah with God on that day that's the day when every mouth is shut it's not the day where you talk about how you decided what
58:48: Jesus was mm -hmm and if he was really a man and if he his works were accurately described in the
58:54: Bible or if he was just a guy that gave out hugs or whatever that's not that that's not the day that you're it's interesting to this is a powerful testimony to like when you have a false version of God right like when man -made when man -made religion like creates the
59:11: God of the system even when they use like Christian titles and things like that it always diminishes the true holiness of God right it always ends up diminishing it and diminishes in a couple ways like for example
59:21: I'll say let me say two ways it diminishes it in one way in a case like this the guy's like you know hey if I had the wrong
59:28: God the whole time look I'll deal with it when I'm in front of him God's reasonable and nice yeah it's like you don't understand the holiness of God and the effects of your sin and if you think you can reason if you think
59:39: God's like that that you're gonna be able to take your sin into his throne room and like put it before his feet and just be like what do you think like can we work this out like everything he's a holy
59:48: God and a he cannot even have sin in his presence and in his sight so when you think about that it's like well there's one way the man -made religion diminishes the holiness of God as they always make their fictional
59:59: God sort of just like a little like let's work this out like you know maybe I'll tolerate a little bit of this another way man -made religion perverts the holiness of God isn't how all man -made religion teaches the fictional idea that through our own good deeds and righteousness is somehow we're gonna be able to make up for all of the bad things that we did which shows that it also diminishes the true holiness of God in terms of like God can take some sin like which is yeah really sins not that bad yeah it's really not that bad it's not as sensitive as you're making it out to be and you're really not as much of a sinner so I mean he even was talking about you know being perfect right coming a
01:00:40: God and it's like what does any Mormon even have right of that right right like can can the faithful lovely
01:00:50: Mormon even look at their own heart and say I'm gonna become a God right so that is the standard for that and so and you must like obviously if you've committed your life to this you're gonna say yes my my goal is to become a
01:01:05: God one day but ultimately you're gonna you know that your sin is not just a little bit sinful it is sinful yeah there's a lot of bit a word yeah as much as it can possibly be yeah and so like it needed blood for it to cover it yeah death a lot of yeah like God himself coming to become a man to have his righteousness account for you and his his death to take the death you should have gotten right and to conquer that death and it's like you know so someone says what's the contrast well the message of Scripture in terms of contrast is being in Christ through faith as a gift nothing to do with you so like watch the
01:01:45: Christian like my own if I could if I could have got it more of a chance to answer this man what I would have wanted to say is is no
01:01:52: I when I think about my moment where I stand before God for the first time like outside of this flesh and I see him face to face
01:02:02: I am telling you as a believer who knows the holiness of God and God's Word about the gospel
01:02:07: I do not want to mention a moment of my own righteousness is because they are cast before his throne as filthy rags if God says to a
01:02:18: Christian why should you and I be okay why are we okay why should I let you in our presence for all eternity the
01:02:24: Christian goes right because of his work because of his righteousness I do not want an inkling of my life to be before your eyes in terms of my sin my unrighteousness my righteousness is
01:02:38: I I want to hide in your son forever and I only want his righteousness to be standing in front of me and you and I only want his death on my behalf to count in terms of what
01:02:48: I deserve from my life I only want Jesus I want his work alone I don't want anything else I want to stand in him for all eternity that's the difference and if you say right now as a
01:02:57: Mormon watching this show how is that possible I want it now I would say right now turn from your sin to the living
01:03:02: Christ put your faith in him and his work and righteousness alone the true God the eternal God not the false
01:03:08: God of Joseph the false God of Mormonism turn to him in faith abandon your sin and self -righteousness isn't come to Jesus that's the call so a little bit more of this just you're prepared to accept
01:03:23: God's condemnation for Joseph's revelation I don't believe they were wrong well
01:03:30: Joseph Joseph came along and almost 2 ,000 years after Christ and gave a new revelation about God and who
01:03:36: Jesus is that is clearly in contradiction to what God has already revealed we we believe that it's not well
01:03:44: I just gave you one example the Bible teaches there were no gods before God you can't become one one day
01:03:50: Joseph said okay but then if you read Genesis yeah God says let us go down and make man in our father son
01:03:57: Holy Spirit let us it doesn't say that he says let us go down yeah well because the Bible teaches that there is only one
01:04:03: God well the Bible teaches there's only one God and it says let us create our single image are you believe in three gods of this earth no you do no do you accept
01:04:14: Joseph's revelation yes okay Joseph said many men say there is only one
01:04:20: God the Father the Son the Holy Spirit are only one God he says I say that's a strange God anyhow three and one one two three it's a curious organization all are to be crammed into one
01:04:29: God according to sectarianism he says it'd be a wonderfully big God to be a giant or a monster he says I have always he says
01:04:36: I wish to declare I have always and when I've preached in the subject of the deity I've always preached in the plurality of gods yes okay so this is
01:04:43: God the Father yeah the Son Jesus Christ and there's a whole you said there was only one there are three separate beings and so is it three or one there are three separate yeah one of the purpose but you believe in three beings three beings yeah right so that's three gods of this earth no there's only one guy okay well three beings means three gods yeah okay so you believe in so in terms of our interaction and engagement with Mormons can you can you see how important it is to understand what their church teaches from their prophets about God so in these moments when they try to redefine even their own churches teaching you can get beneath that language and that cover and you can actually expose the reality of the false
01:05:28: God that they worship this is why it's important for us it's not to say that when you go and say you learn about a new cult somewhere and you're trying to figure out how to minister to them
01:05:35: I gotta know everything in the world about this cult to actually be effective in reaching them no like that's not necessarily true but it is important for us if we're trying to reach
01:05:43: Mormons and like we love them we're trying to have some depth to our conversation and make it meaningful we should get to know what they actually believe so that we can actually communicate with them and and hear these moments where they're just not being really honest with their belief system like well it's only one
01:05:57: God well no it's three gods Joseph said it's three gods of this earth and then you know multiple trillions outside of that and he's then he finally admits it no with three beings that's right father son separate gods right it's like well that's what
01:06:09: I just said to you is that you believe in three gods of this earth not one God so it's important right when you're engaging with any particular field of study like contrast for a second like not just Mormonism but say with the issue of abortion right like give me something like you think about that for a second what are some examples in terms of like engaging with a pro -choice arguments of the day understanding what they're saying so we can have the right thing and in terms of like say for example example intersectionality or the typical feminist stuff happening today like why is it important for us and like in what way can we show like I need to understand where they're coming from so I know how to talk to it like how do
01:06:50: I like who do I read like what are they saying what's their argumentation what do you think well we'd probably have some of the same audience in those two camps yeah
01:06:58: I mean they're reading Camille Paglia right or the you know the the feminists of the day and they're drawing their
01:07:04: I mean yeah Camille Paglia is a little she believed some things that we believe okay in terms of feminism
01:07:14: I think people would read her intersection out I don't know where the intersectionals I don't know how they feel about Camille mishmash of cultural commentary and redefinition of the terms so for example when a
01:07:27: Mormon says Jesus they're not talking about the Jesus of Scripture right right and then when a feminist you know uses the word fetus right you know same kind of or tolerance or discrimination or or injustice or oppression or any of these redefined categories or words yeah well and I think fundamentally especially with feminism or intersectionality and I think with abortion self is
01:07:57: Christ you are the person that is going to liberate yourself and break your bonds and that being said you are the person who receives worship and so it's important it's important that we know like who who are when someone gets an abortion what altar are they laying their sacrifice at yeah or with feminism you know mm -hmm it's it's the same thing because they're the means of obtaining their own righteousness and so just like in Mormonism they use those means as a way to get closer to their
01:08:44: God right right so Mormonism is about doing works getting your temple recommend entering the temple so that you can continue to work your way
01:08:54: I mean what is all that about it's not coming to God for God it's not the
01:08:59: Christian gospel which is congratulations you get God mm -hmm that's the reward of the gospel yes that you get
01:09:04: Christ and you're in him by faith apart from any of your works as opposed to the things that you do are the way that you get closer right the way that you get to God is you got to go inside the temple if you want to be near God you got to go offer your your sacrifice and in your works of righteousness in order to obtain favor in his presence so that he'll bless you and for the woman that gets an abortion she's got to go inside that place of sacrament in her temple and perform this work of righteousness in her eyes so that she'll be accepted by the world so she'll get that degree so she'll be more respected by her boyfriend so she'll be accepted by her family all of these things these works righteous acts are a means of getting closer to her
01:09:47: God whether that's the God of Mormonism there's a construction of somebody's imagination or the God of the girl at the abortion clinic or the feminist it's all a construction of an idol essentially false
01:09:57: God that can't save yeah and so you have to redefine that and then you have to redefine the way that you get to him which again is you not coming to God for God it's you wanting something else like the prosperity gospel or the word of faith like you don't want
01:10:12: God you want something else right and you're using God as a means to get to that thing that you really want right yeah all right guys
01:10:18: I think that's it for today I want to make some encouraging or some recommendations to you guys in terms of if you want to engage this issue of Mormonism definitely check out
01:10:27: Alpha and Omega Ministries on YouTube look up Dr. White's engagement with the Mormon Church the years of debates you can even type you can type in in the
01:10:34: YouTube search bar dr. James White Mormon and debate something like that you can watch the debates definitely check out our channel you can look through our entire history and see just countless videos
01:10:47: I don't even know how many there are of us engaging Mormons on the street we more than anything anything else we have it's got to be hundreds and you could also
01:10:57: I mean you can even just type in Jeff Durbin and Mormon and you'll see like those interactions come up and let's see in terms of books if you want to get into the history of Mormonism definitely one nation under gods by Richard Abanas definitely get no man knows my history by Fawn Brody and if you want a great book in terms of interaction get letters to a
01:11:17: Mormon elder by dr. James White that's excellent that'd be a good start so I would start there and if you want a good resource that's a must -have resource for direct engagement with the
01:11:27: Mormon community get a little booklet it's called where does it say that and I don't ever go out to Mormon evangelism without that because when you talk to the modern
01:11:37: Mormon oftentimes you have to actually convert them to Mormonism before they can come to Christ because you have to actually show them this is what your church teaches this is what
01:11:47: Joseph and Brigham Young taught this is you know when they'll deny it you have to just sort of open it and then they'll go okay yeah
01:11:53: I believe that so that's because it's taken on that same thing like Mormonism is kind of just what I yes it's it's what
01:11:59: I was raised with and it's also kind of what it means to me yeah so to have those it's it's basically just a book yeah it's kind of like a magazine size and it has like photocopies original text yes some some of them yeah yeah yeah photocopies of their original works so like history of the church journal of discourses all that stuff isn't there it's just like joy said it's just photocopies of it so when they deny it you just go no it's right here and they'll go okay yeah he did say that I believe that so that's usually not usually it is a great resource and we need to start making some of those for oh yeah yeah groups yeah for sure we're actually going to Salt Lake City for General Conference we're gonna be in Salt Lake City August 6 no
01:12:43: August April April the 6th in Salt Lake City we're coming to Utah y 'all with the team from Apologia Church to go out and do evangelism to reach the
01:12:51: Mormon community if you're in the area we'd love to catch up with you while we're there so that's coming up guys pray for that and what else is going on anything else we can tell everyone to pray for definitely pray for our mission in Salt Lake City pray for Apologia Kauai you guys can still give to Apologia Kauai at ApologiaKauai .com
01:13:10: definitely need your support and help there very important mission for us out there please be prayer for that and pray for end abortion now all that God is doing with that joy the girl yeah