Questions and Answers (Dutch) — Zac Poonen

Questions and Answers on Scripture and Christian Growth

We have got some very, very good questions. I have been at question-answer sessions in different parts of the world in the last thirty years. I'm greatly encouraged to see that these are some of the best questions I've ever got in my life.

Which shows that people are listening carefully, and they are questioning, is this in scripture? That's very good. One of the wonderful things we just heard about the Berean Christians, they say that they searched the scriptures even after listening to the Apostle Paul.

If we preach what the Apostle Paul preached, most of it is not new. But the people in the synagogues in those days had only heard the old covenant teaching of Moses. And whenever you go to people who have only heard the old covenant and teach the new covenant, it's strange.

So, they were shocked when they heard Paul preaching so many strange things. He preached the same thing in Thessalonica. But they fought and argued with Paul and kicked him out of the city. But the people in Berea were more noble.

They were open. They said, maybe there's something we need to learn here. So after Paul preached, they said, well, praise the Lord, Brother Paul, we'd like to go home and study the scriptures and then come back to you.

And I'm sure they had that attitude with every preacher who came there. First of all, they were not stuck in their old system. Otherwise they would have been like the people in Thessalonica, saying, this is all rubbish, we don't want to listen to it.

The Holy Spirit says such people are not noble-minded, but the people in Berea were noble-minded. And they were humble. They said, well, maybe there's something more we have to learn in scripture which we have not learned.

Maybe Paul is sharing with us something our elders in our own synagogue haven't understood. So, whenever any preacher came, they always checked it with scripture. And they followed scripture. There was a church there, but have you noticed in the New Testament, there is no epistle to the Bereans.

Why? Because they always checked with scripture, there was no need to write any letter to correct anything. That's the advantage of being a Berean. But if you're like the Galatians who listen to this and listen to that, and anybody who comes along, just believe it, then you need to write a letter to correct them.

So, let's be noble-minded like the Bereans, and we know that among Christians there are many different doctrines. And we have some strong views on that, but always we must test doctrine by our life. Has this doctrine produced a New Testament life in me?

Testing Doctrine by the Freedom of the Gospel

When I was a young Christian, I was confused by all the different Protestant denominations. And I said, Lord, how to know what is the truth? And I got this verse, John 8, 32, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

So, I got a help there, that if what I'm hearing is the truth, it will set me free, not bring me into greater bondage. Anything that brings greater bondage, or discouragement, or condemnation, cannot be the truth.

The truth always sets us free. Free from sin. If you read in John 8, 32, he was talking about sin there. Not free to do what we like. Some people think freedom means I get up and dance in the meeting.

Well if you want to do that, you do that, but be free from sin first. That's more important. I'm more interested in being free from sin than dancing in the meeting, I'll tell you that. Jesus didn't come to teach us to be free to do all these things, he came to free us from sin.

Salvation from Sin and the Difference Between Forgiveness and Deliverance

Never forget the first promise in the New Testament. First promise in the New Testament. Do you know what it is? Matthew 1, 21. You shall call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins.

Not he shall forgive their sins. He shall save his people from their sins. There's a difference between being forgiven of our sin and saved from our sin, which many people don't understand. Supposing I have a little son at home, six years old.

Supposing some workers are digging a big pit outside on the road. And I tell my son, son don't go anywhere near that pit, because you'll fall down. But like all little children, they disobey their father, and he goes near the pit and he falls down.

And from that eight foot pit, he cries out, daddy. And I say, what happened? Daddy, I'm sorry I disobeyed you. And I say, okay son, I forgive you, goodbye. Have I forgiven him? Yes. Have I saved him? No.

The Continuing Value of the Old Testament Under the New Covenant

Has Jesus forgiven you? Maybe yes. Has he saved you? Don't let the devil rob you of your inheritance in Christ. Okay, now let's go to these questions. Now, one question is, if you say the Old Covenant is abolished, do we need the Old Testament or the Bible at all?

Let's use the word agreement. An agreement God made with man. Old agreement, new agreement. The word Old Testament is not referring to any section of the Bible. Man has put the word Old Testament in the beginning and said, that's man's word in the first page, Old Testament.

That's not part of your Bible. The Bible begins with, in the beginning, God created the heaven and earth. But men have put Old Testament in the first page. And then at the beginning of Matthew, they have put New Testament.

But the Bible is one. It was what was written before Christ came and what was written after Christ came. So I would prefer to read it like that. The books that were written before Christ came and the books that were written after Christ came.

Do we need the books that God wrote before Christ came? Yes. Otherwise, how will I know about how sin came into the world? How God created man and woman? And I can learn so many things from the mistakes that Israel made.

So many things I can learn from the mistakes David made and Moses made and Elijah made. Three quarters of the Bible is those first 39 books. And those books written before Christ came are very important for all of us.

But the old agreement God made with man through Moses has been abolished. But we must remember when we read all those 39 books that there are laws given there that don't apply to us. In the book of Leviticus, it says you shouldn't eat pork.

That's a law. If you disobeyed it as an Israelite, you were disobedient to God. It doesn't apply to us. Because all these laws about food and Sabbath and tithing and all that is gone. Yeah, even tithing, it's not mentioned in the New Testament after the day of Pentecost.

These are all finished with Christ. Colossians 2 says it is a shadow and the reality has come in Christ. So the Old Testament is very necessary to learn from the way God dealt with Israel and the mistakes that they made.

To learn how sin originated and how seriously God took sin in Israel and how the prophets spoke against sin all the time. All the prophets spoke against sin. And that is how I identify a true prophet of God today.

He will speak against sin, not prophesy the future. Very few prophets in the Old Testament prophesied the future. Elijah was one of the greatest prophets. He never said a word about the future. He spoke against sin and the worship of idols, anything other than the true God.

Discerning Old Testament Promises

But now the promises of the Old Testament, should we claim them? There we must discern what was particularly for Israel and what is for us. God promised Israel many earthly blessings. Their harvests would be plentiful.

Their lands would prosper. They would never get into debt to anybody. They would be the highest of all the nations in the world. They would have an earthly land called Canaan. And God would bless them with prosperity and healing.

I am the Lord, your healer. But every blessing was an earthly blessing. He never promised them heaven. He never promised them victory over sin in their life. He never promised them anything spiritual.

So, when we come into the New Testament, we must remember that those promises were for Israel. For example, if you read in the Psalms, the Psalmist says, Lord, destroy my enemies. How do we apply that today?

Yeah, my enemies are the lusts in my flesh. My enemies are the lusts in my flesh. Or the devil and his demons. If I recognize those as my enemies today, then you can read the Psalms properly. But if you think it's your troublesome neighbor that the Psalmist is talking about, then you misunderstood the Old Testament.

So you need to read it with wisdom. That's what I would say about Old Testament promises. But some of the finest promises are found in the book of Isaiah. Isaiah is like a little Bible. 66 chapters. Like 66 books.

And Isaiah is divided into two parts. 39 chapters and then 27 chapters. And the first 39 chapters is dealing with Israel. And the next 27 chapters is mostly about a new covenant. So, Isaiah is like a little miniature Bible.

So, the last 27 chapters, chapter 40 to 66, have got some of the finest new covenant promises in the whole Old Testament. And then there are some prophetic promises. Habakkuk 2, verse 4, the righteous shall live by faith.

Some of those promises are looking to the future. Or Jeremiah 31, I will make a new covenant. Or Ezekiel 36, I will give you a new heart and a new spirit. So, these are fulfilled in the New Testament.

Justification, Sanctification, and Progress in Romans

So, we need to read the Bible with discernment. And see where new covenant comes in and where is old covenant. Okay, the next question is, can you explain the second half of Romans chapter 7? Now, we had a very profitable time discussing that with a number of young people the other day.

And I would like to repeat a little bit of that. Romans is one of the clearest explanations of the gospel in the entire New Testament. And I will quickly give you a review of the whole thing. If you go to my website, you can listen to this.

You know, it's available there freely. On my website, you can listen to the whole speech. Romans chapter 1 is about the godless, worldly sinner. And Romans chapter 2 says that a religious Jewish person is also a sinner.

And Romans chapter 3, verse 23 says that all have sinned. It doesn't matter if you are a worldly sinner or a religious sinner. And then it's about forgiveness. And Romans 4, verse 5 is about justification.

How we are justified by God. It's not enough to be justified. That we are justified means that the righteousness of Christ comes upon us. It is added to our account. But the righteousness that God has added to our account has to become ours in the course of time.

The righteousness that is imputed to us must be imparted to us. One is called justification and the other is sanctification. Justification is immediate, as soon as you are born again. Sanctification is progressive and takes a lifetime.

We become more and more like Christ. We get more and more light on sin in our life and become more and more Christ-like. So, you can stop at Romans 5. You are born again justified. You are saved. You will go to heaven.

But it's like finishing your education in the kindergarten class. How many of you would like your children to finish their education at kindergarten? They've learned ABCD. They've learned addition or something like that.

But you don't want your children to stop there. God doesn't want his children to stop there either. God wants his children to get a spiritual PhD, every one of them. And you can't get that in one year.

But if you press on, press on, press on, you can get it. And just like in the world, people drop out of their education at different levels. Christians also drop out of their education at different levels.

And Christians also drop out at different chapters in Romans. And you choose at which chapter you drop out. Some people, they drop out after chapter 5, that's all. Kindergarten is enough for me. My sins are all forgiven.

I'm justified. I'm going to heaven. That's all that matters. But there are others who say, God didn't stop Romans with chapter 5. From Romans 5, you go to Romans 6. And Romans 6 deals with overcoming sin.

And it talks about baptism. Baptism is a testimony, it says in Romans 6, 6, that you should not be a slave to sin anymore. It's not a testimony just of my having sins being forgiven. It's a testimony that my old man is buried.

It's a very important testimony, because Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and baptize people. Romans 6, 4, 6 says, you're buried with him in baptism. How do you bury a man? Not by sprinkling sand on his head.

That's not baptism. You don't bury anybody by sprinkling sand on their head. You put a man six feet underneath. He's completely buried. That's the only type of baptism. That's the baptism Jesus has. Because it symbolizes burial.

And resurrection. That's why you don't read about child baptism in the Bible. And we should be careful not to add to Scripture. We must be very exact with Scripture. Don't add, don't subtract. When it says Cornelius and his household were baptized, don't say there must have been babies there.

That is adding to Scripture. When you say the Philippian jailer was baptized with his household, don't add there must have been babies there. I can show you numerous households in the world where there are no babies, where all the children are over 16 years old.

Very often we've got an idea in our head and we look in Scripture to prove the idea we already have. Then you'll be like the Thessalonians and not like the Bereans. So Romans 6 speaks about overcoming sin.

And like you were slaves of sin, Romans 6, 17. You know what it is to be a slave of sin? Romans 6, 17. Sin says do this, you do it. Sin says get angry. And you say yes, I'll get angry. Sin says lust after that woman.

Yes, I will lust after that woman. Or sin says don't forgive that person. You say yes, I'll obey you, I won't forgive that person. Be jealous of that person who is better than you. Yes sir, I will obey you, I will be jealous of that person.

That is a slave of sin. Now, verse 18. 6, 18. You can be freed from sin and become a slave of righteousness. What does it mean to be a slave of righteousness? Righteousness says forgive that man. Yes, I will forgive that person.

Righteousness says turn your eyes away from that filthy picture. Yes, I will turn it away. Righteousness says don't click on that website. You know where that's going to go. You say yes, I know where that's going to go.

I don't want to go there. Righteousness will love that enemy of yours. Righteousness says love that enemy of yours. Yes, I'll do that. Do good to that troublesome neighbor of yours. I will do that. Humble yourself and keep your mouth shut.

When somebody is angry with you. I'll do that. That's a slave of righteousness. And Romans 6 is dealing with how slaves of sin become slaves of righteousness. Romans 6, 17 and 18. That is God's will. Now in the Old Testament, people were forgiven their sin, but they could not become slaves of righteousness.

As human beings, we have two problems. One is our past, the other is our future. In the past, we have the guilt of so many millions of sins we have committed. And God's solution for that is, He sent the second person of the Trinity to die for our sins.

But then we have another problem in the future. That is this thing the Bible calls the flesh, our nature, which keeps on sinning and sinning and sinning, even after we are born again. The Bible calls that the flesh, our sinful nature.

And God's solution for that is, He sends the third person of the Trinity as flesh, which makes us sin. And the solution for that is, God sends the third person of the Trinity. The solution for our past is the second person of the Trinity.

And the solution for the future is the third person of the Trinity, who comes and dwells in us. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, to give us power inside to overcome this nature. But before we come into that life, we understand that we have now got to be finished with sin and be slaves of righteousness.

And many people who pursue after this righteousness and holiness, many people who pursue after this holiness and righteousness, instead of coming into the freedom of the Holy Spirit, they begin to enter holiness in a spirit of the law.

They try to enter holiness in a spirit of the law. And that's what the first half of Romans 7 is dealing with. These are people who have come beyond Romans 6. You see, from the 6th grade you go to the 7th grade.

You don't go back to the 3rd grade. And I have seen this throughout my life. That's the way I went myself. In my pursuit of holiness, I went from Romans 6 to Romans 7. I tried to keep God's commandments in the spirit of the law.

I tried to keep God's commandments in the spirit of the law. And my life was pretty miserable. Everything I would try to do these things, and I was very demanding on other people also. And I used the picture of three marriages.

The Old Man, the Flesh, and the Christian’s Spiritual Progress

In our unconverted days, we are married to what the Bible calls the old man. The old man is a very wicked husband. He tells me to do all types of wrong things. He tells me to sin, sin, sin, sin every day.

That's our unconverted state. He teaches me to be crooked and wicked. And many years I enjoy living with this wicked husband. And many years I enjoy living with this wicked husband. But then a time came in our life that we got fed up of this wicked husband.

But then a time came in our life that we got fed up of this wicked husband. And we wanted to be free from this wicked husband. That was the time in your life when you wanted to get converted. And then God did something in your life.

He killed that husband. He killed that husband. It says in Romans 6. Verse 6. The old man is dead. Potentially on the cross 2 ,000 years ago. And actually when you received Christ. And I'm free now from that old man.

And in baptism I'm testifying that the old man is dead and buried. And I come out of the water testifying that a new man has come now. What is the old man and what is the new man? The old man is the mind that wanted to sin.

The new man is what God has put inside of us called a new creation. That mind that does not want to sin. The old man is different from the flesh. God killed the old man. On the cross 2 ,000 years ago.

But Galatians 5 .24 says We have to kill the flesh. There's a difference between the old man and the flesh. The old man was pictured in the Old Testament by the armies of Pharaoh. God killed them in a moment.

The Israelites did nothing. The armies of Pharaoh were buried under the Red Sea. The armies of Pharaoh were buried in the Red Sea. And it says that the Israelites were baptized in the Red Sea. Because that was a picture of the old man buried there.

God did it. The armies of Pharaoh. But then the flesh is represented by the giants of Canaan. And God does not kill them. The Israelites have to kill them. Joshua is another word for Jesus. And Joshua took the Israelites into the land of Canaan.

That's the land of victory. That's the land of the new covenant. The wilderness is the land of the old covenant. Joshua leads people into Canaan and tells the Israelites, you have to kill the giants. And that took many years.

That is sanctification. But they had to kill those giants in the power of God. And God was willing to help them. He said, you must kill all the giants in Canaan. But 600 ,000 Israelites said, no, no, no.

They are too strong for us. Just like 600 ,000 believers will say today, we can't have victory over sin. But two people, Joshua and Caleb said, no, with the power of God, we can kill them. And I've seen the same today.

Out of 600 ,000 believers, you'll find two believers who say, we can overcome anger. We can overcome the lust of the eyes. We can overcome an unforgiving spirit. We can overcome jealousy. We can overcome the love of money.

We can overcome telling lies. We can overcome seeking the honor of men. Those are the two people I want to follow. Because if I follow the other 600 ,000, I'll spend my life in the wilderness. But when I follow Joshua and Caleb, I'm not going to kill all the giants in one day.

I don't overcome every sin in my life in one day. As I see a giant, by faith I can kill him. But there may be a hundred other giants hidden in the caves of Canaan that I don't see yet. There is conscious sin and unconscious sin.

When I talk about victory over sin, I can only talk about conscious sin. The giants that I can see. How can I kill a giant whom I cannot see? When I see him, I can kill him. So, sanctification is progressive.

As you kill the giants, you occupy more and more of the land of Canaan. The land of Canaan today is your body. Your body is almost shaped like the land of Canaan if you look at a map. And this land has been ruled by many giants.

Anger, bitterness, jealousy. Unforgiving spirits. Love of money. Loving other things more than God. These are all giants. Sexual lust. Many things like this. And the Lord says, Go in and possess that land.

From Dan to Beersheba, the whole land must belong to me. That means from head to foot. Every giant has to be killed. You won't kill them in one day, I know. But with my power, you can overcome all of them.

And then you will find this land is a land flowing with milk and honey. A land from where rivers of living water will flow out. That's God's goal. So there's a difference between the old man and the flesh.

The flesh, we can say, is like a gang of robbers that's seeking to come inside my heart. If I think of my heart as a house. The old man is like an unfaithful servant who lives inside the house and opens the door.

He's not the robber. The robbers come from outside. They're in my flesh. They're trying to enter my heart. But in my unconverted days, I had an old man, an old servant, who would always open the door.

Lust would come knocking and say, Sure, come in. Anger would come knocking and the old man would say, Come in. Bitterness would come knocking and the old man would say, Come in. Selfishness, pride, everything came knocking and the old man would open the door.

But thank God, one day God killed the old man. That's Romans 6. And then He put a new man there who does not want to open the door for these robbers. Now the flesh is still alive. All the robbers are hale and hearty, even in a believer's life.

If you're born again, even though your old man is dead, the robbers, the lusts in the flesh are still hale and hearty. If you're born again, even though your old man is dead, the robbers, the lusts in the flesh are still hale and hearty.

And they come knocking at your door even after you're born again. But now there's a new man inside. He says, No, I'm not going to let you in. But, if the old man is lazy, sorry, the new man, the new man is lazy, if the new man is lazy, he goes to sleep, or he doesn't eat properly, or he doesn't exercise and keep his muscles strong, he doesn't have the strength to keep the door shut.

He doesn't have the strength to keep the door shut. And so the robbers push their way and come inside. And so the robbers push their way and come inside. So even though there's a new man in your heart, you don't feed him with the Word of God, you don't seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit continuously, you don't seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit continuously, then you're not strong.

And then the robbers come in. And then the robbers come in. That's how a believer also falls. Now there's a lot of difference between a believer falling and an unbeliever falling. When an unbeliever falls into sin, it's like a pig falling into the dirty water.

If a non-believer falls into the dirty water, it's like a pig falling into the dirty water. He enjoys it. You know, a pig falls into the dirty water and says, this is great, I just love this. But when a believer falls into the dirty water, it's like a cat falling into the dirty water.

No cat will stay in that water even for one second. What does it do? It jumps out. And then it licks itself clean. Have you seen cats? They're the same all over the world. Anytime you see them, they're always licking themselves clean.

That's the mark of a believer. He wants total cleanliness. Can cats fall into dirty water? Sure. Can a believer fall into sin? Sure. But, you'll find out whether they are believers or not in how they react after they fall.

If in the night I hear an animal falling into water, I can know whether it's a pig or a by seeing who jumps out. You can find out whether you're a believer or not by what is your reaction after you've fallen into sin.

Not that you never fall. In fact, if you're faithful and you keep the new man strong, your fall will become less and less and less and less. But in your pursuit of holiness, you can get married to the law.

Marriage to the Law Versus Marriage to Christ

Your first marriage is to this old man who always made you sin. God killed him. And then instead of marrying Christ by mistake, you married the law. The law is not like the old man. The law is so righteous.

It's always demanding that you do the right thing. It never asks you to commit one sin. But his standards are so high. This husband tells you as the wife, I want my breakfast at 8 o 'clock in the morning.

It must be well cooked. Not at 8 .01, at 8 o 'clock. The law is very demanding. The shoes must be perfectly polished. The clothes must be perfectly washed and ironed. There must not be a spot of dust anywhere in the house.

And this poor wife says, how can I live with this man? The old man made me sin. I thought I married this man who wants everything perfect, but I find it's impossible to live with him. I tell you, living under the law is a tremendous bondage.

He never asks you to do anything wrong. But you're married to him. And you can't be free from him because the law will never die. The law of God is eternal. He has no blood pressure, no diabetes. He's going to live forever.

He's a very healthy husband. And the wife is feeling miserable. How will I live with this man for the rest of my life? I married the wrong person. I thought it was Christ, but it wasn't Christ. This is the condition of many believers.

They are married to standards and rules. They're not married to Jesus Christ. Good laws, good rules. They're so demanding on others, you must follow these rules. Because they themselves are living under this burden.

It is to such people that Jesus said, Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden under this burden of the law. So how does God deliver us from the law? With the old man it was easy, God could kill the old man.

But the second marriage to the law, God will never kill the law. So what does God do? He kills the wife. And the marriage is ended. God does a wonderful thing. There is no problem too hard for God. It says as long as you're married to a person, as long as your husband lives, you have to be married to him forever.

You can't divorce your husband. But if her husband dies, then she can be married. But the law never dies. So what does God do? Romans 7 verse 4 You, the wife, were killed, made to die to the law. So that, what does God do then?

He raises you up from the dead. The old marriage is broken. Now, verse 4, you can be married to Christ. Then you come into the freedom of the spirit. And that is what he describes in Romans chapter 8.

So in the latter half of Romans 7, many people think, this is the life of the believer. That I keep on sinning. I keep on telling lies. I keep on lusting after women. I keep on losing my temper. Well, you can extend it and say I keep on committing murder also.

There's no difference between anger and murder. Maybe you commit physical murder. And you can also commit physical adultery. In God's eyes, there is no difference between lustful looking or committing adultery.

And this becomes an excuse for people to keep on sinning. And they say, Paul also did things he didn't want to do. Whenever you go to Scripture to find an excuse for your sin, the devil will help you to find it.

Because you forgot the first promise in Scripture. You shall call his name Jesus because he came to save his people from their sins. If you forget how the New Testament begins with that first promise, you'll get all types of wrong interpretations, even in Romans 7.

Romans 7 and Unconscious Sin

The most important verse in the second half of Romans is Romans 7 .15. Please listen. That which I am doing, I do not understand. It says in Romans 7 .15, What I am doing, I do not understand. What I am doing, I do not understand.

It's not me practicing it. It's something I didn't understand. I understand it after it's done. There are two types of sin in our life. Conscious and unconscious. Conscious is about 10%, unconscious is about 90%.

It's like a cube of ice in a glass of water. 10 is above the surface, 90 you can't see. 10 is above the water, 90 you can't see. 10 of the giants in Canaan you can see, the other 90 you can't.

He's not talking about conscious sin. He's talking about things which are not Christ-like, but which he doesn't have light on. He's talking about things which are not Christ-like, but which he doesn't have light on.

Very often he gets light on it after he's done it. You can look at it like this. There are things which I hate. What do I hate? I want to be like Jesus from head to foot and I hate everything un-Christ-like in my life.

Even though I hate everything un-Christ-like in my life, I find myself sometimes that I have done something un-Christ-like. He's not talking about adultery and murder in this section. You can't say about adultery, I don't know what I was doing.

You can't say when you commit murder, that which I'm doing I don't understand. When you go to a pornographic website, you can't say that which I'm doing I don't understand. When you lust after a woman, you can't say that which I'm doing I don't understand.

Remember, this whole section is headed with that which I'm doing I don't understand. It's not talking about sin that you know. There are many things. For example, let me give you an example. Supposing you said something to your wife with a good intention.

No evil intention. But your wife misunderstood it. Or it could be the other way, to your husband and he misunderstood it. You didn't want to hurt her. But afterwards when you think about what you said, you say, oh yeah, I realize that could be misunderstood in a wrong way.

I didn't understand it. I didn't want to hurt her. But I did. It was not deliberate, conscious hurting her. It was unconscious, without understanding. But it was still unchrist-like. So you have to apologize to your wife or husband.

And that's just one area. And like that, little by little, you get discovered. So many things in our life which are unchrist-like. Maybe you don't speak anything evil in your conversation. And you think you're very holy.

But when maybe people come to visit your home, you dominate the conversation so much that you don't let other people talk. There are some people like that. They don't speak evil. But you go to their house.

And they talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. All good things. They never give you a chance to open your mouth. But they don't feel guilty about it. They don't feel guilty about it.

Because they say, I never spoke evil about anybody. I never got angry. I never said anything sinful. Then afterwards, if they're really walking in the light, the Holy Spirit will show them, you didn't say anything sinful, that was right.

But you dominated the conversation so much, you didn't allow that poor person to talk. Because you dominated the conversation so much that you didn't give that poor person a chance to say anything. And then you say like Paul, oh, what a wretched man I am.

I didn't understand that. That was not like Christ. And you cleanse yourself. And the next time those people come to visit your house, you're a little more silent. What happened to this sister? She became a little more Christ-like.

That is sanctification. It's progressive. I'm just giving you one or two examples. So that's what he's talking about here. He says, I agree with the law, it's good. But there's a sin in my flesh, which I'll have until Jesus comes again.