How to Handle Church Discipline — Shane Idleman

Matthew 18 and the Purpose of Church Discipline

So here we go Matthew 18 if you have your Bibles Matthew 18 verse 15 and For those of you have not been here. We've been talking about sin in the camp. Sin in the camp and church discipline. How do you handle sin in the camp?

How do you handle sin that's going on the church and we looked at two different extremes on one extreme is you go get him Shane. Let's get out of all those sinners. Well, we most of us would be in trouble, right?

There's a there's a process here. No, it's not go get him. It's how can we restore somebody? How can we help them? But then the other side is what we're actually seeing a lot more of is don't say anything.

You see somebody caught in sin or or doing different things and they're actually Enjoying it. They're flaunting it and the church says I don't want to upset anybody. I don't I don't want to upset them.

But we have to remember we're responsible to what God what God says in his word. My primary responsibility is to God and his word and that sometimes offends people doesn't it? That will that will people will not like that so we have to find the middle the whole point of church discipline the whole the whole point of this topic is What have we been talking about?

Restoration. Restoration we lovingly confront sin in the hopes of restoring Somebody and we did part 1 part 2 part 3 and this is the final part tonight part 4 and this is more specific on church-discipline and what church-discipline is in a nutshell is when a person has a consistent and persistent pattern of sin.

That is unrepentant that they could care less. They're not going to repent and that person goes to them. We bring maybe a couple elders or leadership or people two or three witnesses go and we talk to them say listen.

This is hurting your family. This is hurting the church. There's people care for you and love you. You've got to make some changes. This is serious. Now. We've we're involving other people and that they say well, I don't care.

Doesn't matter then you've got to up it a little bit and bring it to the church and let the church Lovingly confront that person now, how does that look? Well, I'm glad you asked because we're going to talk about that.

But this is a good point to remind you or a good time to remind you that there's not a one-size-fits-all approach we're not going to have a List of you know do this in this situation do this in this situation.

That's why a lot of prayer goes into it a lot of waiting on the Lord a lot of looking at what is God's Word Say says we're often not in a hurry. If you're in a hurry to rebuke or in a hurry to administer church discipline often the heart might not be right.

However, there are exceptions to that are there not? There are exceptions when there when there's sin in the camp that's blatant and obvious. I've gave gave some illustrations in the past and I don't have to give those again tonight.

But there's times when you do need to move quickly. It's very obvious. You need to move quickly. There's nothing to pray about. When the the the wife is bringing her boyfriend to church while the husband's at home, right?

I mean, that's that's going to be addressed pretty quick. But there's other things that can take time as you wait on God. So where we left off was Matthew 18 verse 15. Moreover if your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault between you and him.

Alone if he hears you you have gained your brother, but if he will not Here then take with you one or two. More that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established and if he refuses to hear them Then tell it to the church.

But if he refuses even to hear the church. Let him beat you like a heathen and a tax collector and let me remind you that Jesus Christ is saying this this is Jesus saying this is a loving a loving rebuke is definitely sometimes needed and Many of you who have been brought back to the Lord by a loving rebuke know exactly what I'm talking about.

Because here's what happens in my life to all of our lives if we continue in a pattern. That's not pleasing to the Lord and we have only have cheerleaders and no coaches. When are we ever going to turn back?

If nobody says anything Finances are going good. Nobody's you know, God's not orchestrating difficult circumstances. Hey, I'm All that in a bag of chips, and I'm not being confronted and nobody says anything because they don't want to upset.

That person often will continue. It's not until somebody grabs and says wait a minute. Do you realize you're going in the wrong direction? That that often plants a seed and I'll tell you nine times out of ten.

They're not very receptive. They're not very happy when they're being confronted, but you've planted the seed. Oh, that's all God calls us to do is plant that seed. So the second step we talked about last week if he will not hear you take with you two or three Witnesses now that does not mean you go to somebody you go get witnesses the next day.

He does not hear you tells me there's a period of time there in which you wait and you watch. What are you watching for? He won't not hear you. There's no change. He will not hear you here means there's no change in his attitude in his actions and that sometimes can take a little bit of time and By bringing two or three witnesses now the offender realizes the seriousness of their sin and if he refuses to hear them, then you tell it to the church and Jesus goes on to say let me read that again.

But if he refuses to hear the church let him beat you like a heathen and a tax collector. Surely I say to you whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loose in Heaven.

Loving Enemies Without Enabling Sin

Now begs the question. How do we handle this in light of Jesus's teaching on loving your enemies? Does it seem like he's saying one thing and doing another wait a minute treat him like a heathen tax collector.

But then earlier we learned in Matthew that he says to love your enemies. Well always remember this loving somebody does not mean enabling them. See I can discontinue fellowship and I can discontinue my friendship and still love them.

How many parents love their children and they say but Johnny you're not living under this roof anymore. Let's set lifestyle changes. You need to find somebody else somewhere else to live. Yeah, can you pay this?

No, I'm not going to enable you anymore. I am not enabling this addiction. I'm not enabling that lifestyle. I'm done being enabling. I love you too much to watch you continue to destroy your life. So to me the context is everything an enemy is somebody.

Who's our enemy? There's plenty out there and Jesus saying listen treat them. With respect treat them with dignity turn the other cheek if they take something give something and you you love them. But this the context of this is actually true.

Love is saying I love you enough to tell you I can't continue to allow you to Be friends with me and this is not the time to take somebody the movies right go golfing with them as if nothing happened.

This is a time where we lovingly confront and that is genuine love. I Don't know if it if it'll you know Matter. I didn't really have this in the sermon notes. But I just thought of this as I'm talking about this issue on this big issue right now.

That you're seeing in the news gay marriage and what the nation calling good what God calls not good and Everybody wants to remain silent. We don't want to offend everybody. We don't want to upset that those struggling and I want to remind people that that's not genuine love.

If you genuinely love somebody you want to lovingly warn and encourage them that Christ is the answer. So all those and I talk to pastors all the time. Not all the time not in our area, but you'll read their blogs and different things like well I'm just I don't want to say anything about this issue.

We don't want to offend. We just want to love them. That's not loving them. That's a coward. You want to save face you want to build a ministry and you don't want to upset anybody because you're worried about your reputation.

That's not love. That's being a coward. So we have to be clear on this issue of truly loving somebody in this context. If the truth if the church truly loves somebody we would go to them and take time right out of our schedule out of our Our busyness and we would take time.

We'd sit them down say listen, you're going in a wrong direction. We love you enough to tell you this. Somebody who really if I really didn't care or the leadership didn't care. We'd say well turn them over Satan.

I don't care less. I'm just here to do my thing. I don't want to be bothered by this. That's not love so I think it's important to define what love is because we have this concept of God as a doting grandfather or This cosmic ball of love which I talked about often, but if you ask most people that's their definition of God.

He's just some cosmic ball of love or a doting grandfather that winks at sin. But Jesus himself said you better confront it because it's cancer the more church allows sin. Blatant unrepentant sin to continue the more that church will know not that the Spirit of the Lord has departed from them.

Because God dwells with his people who are repentant and broken and humbled before him and not allowing these things. So, let's talk about that for a minute he said tell it to the church now there's a lot of confusion here.

Tell it to the church and that word in the Greek language is ecclesia if you look it up. There's a couple different Meanings, but the main meeting is a gathering of like-minded believers. So when Jesus said go tell it to the church at Ecclesia we immediately think of Here both services all the people go tell everybody and I want to be careful in this area because there is there's freedom.

To have a have differing opinions. What I'm about to say I know not everybody will agree with and and we I don't know if there's an exact way to do this. But I've been to in the ten years ago. I'll never forget.

I was at this big church probably a thousand people and they put some guy up on the PowerPoint screen and I'm like, I have no clue who this is and but now I do. You know now now I know what he's but I didn't even know him.

So is that what Jesus had in mind here the you just you know. And the church had good intentions and maybe that's the way the routes ago. I I don't know I I would but looking at this text Ecclesia. It's a gathering of believers in my opinion who know the person.

The person's influence in the church would determine who the church is. Right the person's influence in the church would determine who the church is. Pastor. Shane you here is leaving his wife. Well, guess what the whole church needs to know because the influence.

But if bill on the second row. Second service who doesn't come very often and nobody really knows except a certain group of us. Is that the church is that who you go to and you let them know. Hey all of us 12 15 20 30 people we need to lovingly confront this person so In a nutshell, I think we have to be careful when we're taking something to the church.

You have to determine who even knows this person. Will it be productive? Is that the goal is to let everybody know even if they don't even know who this person is because in going to the church and Confronting something there should be also a side of us that wants to protect.

Because we often forget about the victim don't we? Go get the guy, but what about the wife and the children at home crying? Saying daddy's not coming home. You think they want all their junk up there?

You think they you know, so we have to be careful in this area and look at every situation and pray it through. So in my opinion go and tell it to the church means those within the person's sphere of influence.

Need to know about what's going on because it's those people who can do the next step. Which is to treat him like how can how can I keep this guy up on the PowerPoint? I have no idea who he is. How can I treat him like he's in a tax collector?

I can't I don't even know who he is. But now I do now I know he's Walked-down his wife and met traitor her in for a younger model and now I know that you know this and that things I probably didn't need to know.

So I think that's the context here again, though. There's gray area in regard to Jesus saying a gathering of believers you tell it to the church the believers. But we can glean some insight from 2nd Thessalonians 3 14 through 15 and if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle Paul's talking to the church in Thessalonica.

You note that person so Here's this. Here's the setting of the church in Thessalonica. They have a gathering of people probably a house church. We forget that the church started homes. Did you know that there wasn't a big, you know, thousand foot thousand feet sanctuary in Jerusalem.

They have temples and different things, but they met at homes. So if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle. So you have this imagery here people going to the small group or going to the church and this person just does not want to Obey them just you know, I don't care what you have to say and they're kind of contentious.

They're divisive and Paul's like enough of this how long because if we're supposed to be like-minded believers now. There's nothing wrong with a person coming having questions and sincerely seeking but there are people there who were causing division.

Have you ever met those people? Yes, I have and it's not fun. That's why Paul elsewhere would say Rebuke a divisive person and Just like you're gonna point out everything the color of the carpet. You know this and this and this and they just they're just divisive.

So Paul's saying Do not keep company with that person that they may be ashamed. But then he continues do not count him as an enemy but admonish him as a brother. In other words, he's saying listen you you are you so divisive this month.

You're not you were the Word of God through this you're doing this and we can't continue to fellowship with you. You're not my enemy. You're my brother because you're my brother in Christ. I love you enough to tell you the truth and I like what John Wesley said commenting on this passage.

Have no company with him. No intimacy. No familiarity. No needless correspondence. Tell him lovingly of the reason why you shun him. There's a shun. We don't use that word much anymore. But a shunning is listen.

I can't have needless correspondence. I can't have let's go to lunch. Let's play golf. The reason is because you're validating by your silence that their lifestyle is, okay. You're well aware that that saying nothing says something, right?

If a person for example comes into church week in and week out month in a month out and they know that I know That there's something going on in their life, but I'm just not saying anything. I'm just avoiding it by my silence.

I confirm or Strengthen their position strengthen them in the sin. Actually, it's funny if you read a lot of the Old Testament I like one of the books I like is Jeremiah. Specifically Jeremiah 23 is talking about the false prophets of those days and even false prophets.

You could parallel that to today one of the characteristics of a trait of a false Prophet is to tell people peace peace when there is no peace. In other words to say don't worry about it continue in that destructive pattern.

God doesn't care. God still loves you there. You're you're actually not warning. That's why in Jeremiah said is not my word like a hammer like a fire that devours. But you have perverted the words of the Living God by not warning and instructing and telling the people to come back to God.

You're encouraging your their sin by your silence. That's a false prophet. That's a false prophet. They would encourage sin. So all these guys out there that just want to keep encouraging the church to keep spinning and not confront anything I don't know if they're pleasing God.

Now there comes a time for encouragement, right? We all know that please please bring the encouragement. But when it comes to a consistent pattern of sin, there comes a time to confront that. We can't rush this process nor should we try to avoid it?

That's a key right there. We can't rush this process. Anybody that wants to rush church discipline often has the wrong heart, but we also can't avoid it. We can't avoid speaking the truth and love now, here's a couple of important steps I want to share with you since we're talking about this and The reason I want to fully exhaust this over the over the last four weeks now for four messages.

It's because if it ever comes up or when we're dealing with this issue in the future, we can just say go watch these videos. We just covered everything if you want to know the church's position here. They are.

Offering Restoration and Accountability

So here's a couple important steps. This is actually before the church gets involved or it's even after when the person says I don't care what the church says I'm going to continue. Number one, we have to offer a solution to the person.

It's very healthy and I do this often to say I will walk through this with you. There's hope. But if you just confront somebody's man, you're out of line this and that you're in trouble. I don't care what you have to say.

Don't call me anymore. They leave they're going oh. But if you say listen, this is a very destructive pattern. I'm gonna I can walk through that the church can walk through this with you. Here's the steps you're gonna need to take.

Here's the healing that's gonna need to happen. We've got to get your spouse plugged in with some other women or other men if it's the on the other side and Walk through this with you. We're gonna be here.

It's gonna be hard. It's gonna hurt but we'll walk through this with you. So one on one hand they get the right hook. That'd be a left hook. Actually, you're right. You're right. They get the left hook.

Oh, this hurts. I'm confronted but the building back up, but we're gonna walk through this with you. How did that how does that look? Let me talk to you about one thing. That's an epidemic now. With pornography right and I shared with you before on my phone and all of our all of our computers everything.

We've got accountability software to where you can't even access a porn site. And it also will send to my wife every week every website search I do. The searches on Google every website I visit who I search for on Facebook, it's all sent to her in a nice little email.

But that's part of accountability that's part of like Devil, you can't touch this because I know how you work and I want to put up safeguards and I want to have those. So how that would look is I would tell the guy or the woman.

Well, probably my wife would counsel the women. I that's one thing we don't do. I don't counsel the opposite sex. We refer those out just using wisdom there too as well. Because there's relationships here that can build that aren't healthy and you're opening a door To the enemy, I believe it.

Now back on track. Offering a solution if I if it's it's everywhere. We're actually going to offer a class here at the church for those caught in this or needing help in the future. But you would say instead of casting instead of just making them feel Degraded and humiliated and shameful you'd say I'm gonna walk through this with you and here's what it's gonna look like.

You're gonna hook up this software. It's gonna it's gonna be painful at times. It's gonna hurt. We're gonna hook it up to one of the leadership at the church and we're gonna want you need this accountability.

You need this structure. Here's what's gonna happen. Your wife is going to it's gonna break her heart. She's probably gonna talk about divorce. I don't want you to open your mouth. I don't want you to say a word.

I just want you to apologize and repent and you shut your mouth. You don't argue. You don't make excuses. You don't complain. Here's what's going to happen. Let me walk through it with you and you walk them down that road.

So when it does happen, they're prepared and they know that the church is there for them not against them. So you see the difference. I can bring the sledgehammer and say this is wrong. You're destroying your family, but here's how we're going to help you.

And I have to take care there because taking heed lest I fall. What we talked about last week if we come in with the wrong attitude the devil says oh this guy's price will let me take Him down. So that's how it works offer a solution.

Now. This is important to with the person. You have to number one rule you have to define Repentance so everybody is on the same page. Because when I just say Repentance he might go. Yeah, that sounds good.

I'll be sorry or she'll say I'm sorry. But that's not repentance. Repentance is a Turning a changing and a repairing and a restoring. You want to you want to fix the damage that you did you want to restore?

You're not you're not about if you start to blame shift and make excuses your heart's not ready. And so you need to let the person know what genuine repentance looks like. Listen if you're really changing.

I don't want to hear this. I want to see your feet and hands moving and doing the right things. Because every everybody I'm convinced can talk that talk. Say the right things at the right time we got the lingo down, so we have to define what repentance looks like an Accountability which I just talked about accountability starts the process of Restoration you have to let them know you have to have some form of accountability.

You have to have some form of accountability. Here's the funny thing with like accountability. Accountability in and of itself is not the answer. I Cannot ask a person to keep me accountable. God's got to keep me accountable and a person should not have to keep you accountable.

But it's a very important part of the puzzle because there's accountability there. There's transparency there what I just talked about the website. What I've talked about with our board that's over this church that looks over the financials.

They look at that. Where's this money going? How's it being spent? It's very healthy to have accountability because it keeps our sin nature in check. So that's what you have to tell you have to Let the person know that there has to be some form of accountability.

There has to be some form of change and what we've talked about person people. Let's say again example there. They're married, but now they're Separated and now this person has a girlfriend or boyfriend.

Well one of the steps of accountability is you need to cut that here's how this conversation goes you need to cut that. That that that relationship off. Not next week not next month today. If you want me to see that repentance is genuine you tell them to lose your number you cancel your cell phone.

Your new cell phone you leave it on the counter for your spouse to see every text that comes in every phone call you make. That's what genuine repentance looks like. I'm not willing to do that then you're not willing to change.

You're just full of hot air, and then we have to approach it like that. Who in the right mind want to keep plan B on the backup? Backburner a person not yet fully repentant a. For a person not yet fully repentant has plan a plan B and probably plan C.

In case this doesn't work out. You know what I wrote this down. I don't I Hope it helps somebody and as you know the people listening to on the radio on the Internet in the weeks to come. But I want to speak on this issue.

Divorce, Dating, and the Effects on Families

Since we're talking about it I'm amazed at how many Christians seek somebody to date soon after their separation or divorce. I? Mean this this if anything shocks me in the church. It's this I know people not many that not people that go here don't get me wrong.

But you'll see on Facebook that there. I know they're separated and Now they met somebody. What are we missing here? Let me be crystal clear. You do not go out and it find somebody even if you're divorced.

I think it should be at least a year or two of healing if it's a biblical divorce which there's only a few things we're gonna talk about that in the weeks to come but That should be the last thing on your mind.

And I've talked to people one lady used to come a couple years ago. And she was she was in the separation process wanting to get divorce because I can't wait time start dating again. I don't know laugh or cry.

You want to know why cuz her heart's not right? There's this you should be broken over what's happening. So on that note, I just want to say that because I see so many people okay now we're separated now I can start dating.

No, that is clearly sin in God's eyes there's the release of that takes time a lot of time and In this no-fault divorce that we've embraced in our country is destroying the families. See here's the thing you Would not you guys but people.

Doing doing this kind of thing and I know it's hard. Don't get me wrong. It's marriage is difficult. Talk to my wife and ask her about the first year of ours. Wow. Remember what Ruth Graham told Billy Graham?

I still love him, but I would I've thought about killing him. You know, I'm I'm quite murder. So I know I never want to talk about the subject. I never want to minimize the pain and the difficulty and the challenges sometimes marriages of thorn in the flesh.

Is it not? But I don't think we realize the damage that has done to children. Because here's the excuse we think oh, they're resilient. They'll bounce back. No, they won't. Let me just be up front the majority of young adults that sometimes the church is counseling now.

Most of their pain can be traced back. To the divorce. Mommy meeting somebody new quickly and this it can be traced right back. This is this is an epidemic. But we're so selfish and so self-absorbed that we have to go get somebody right and.

The truth is we did the reason people want to hurry up is they want to hurry up for sex. I mean, that's the majority. That's the truth in the majority. That's what hurry. Hurry. Hurry. Hurry. I got to meet somebody.

I meet somebody, you know, that's not good. That's not godly. There should be a significant amount of time people guys can't believe you said the s-word here. Well, it's it's healthy. It's guess God ordained it, but that's what drives many people selfishness.

Selfishness you can listen to the conversation. You can listen in and on this note if a person is is Looking forward to meeting somebody else right now. There's nothing wrong with you know. You're going through a difficult marriage and and you can't wait till this is over and God restores hopefully and things like that.

But when we're planning. We're planning. Something when God might want us to pray for restoration it makes no sense. So you cannot immediately in my opinion there's there's no excuse for just Immediately going out and finding somebody.

Healing Before Restoration to Ministry

Here's another point be clear on this with them that healing requires time. Healing requires time in the same way that the physical injuries if you ever been hurt physically. Have you ever your toe or rotator cuff or your knee pop and you got to wear a brace in the same way.

Spiritual injury takes time to heal if reinstatement to ministry or restoration occurs too quickly. More damage can result because of a weakened state that is not yet strong. What I mean by that as many churches.

Okay, somebody somebody there's church discipline or there's sin in the camp and it's it's pretty pretty big and. And the person's like, okay, can I go back and you know start helping again a month later month later talk to me in 12 months.

One year. Yeah. Oh for sure. See we've got to feel the pain of the sin that we caused. If you just reinstate somebody quickly, it does more damage than good. Now there's forgiveness then we can reinstate the relationship but serving in ministries a whole different capacity.

Whole different capacity. So that area we need to be careful in as well be clear tell them that healing takes time. And it's very good to say things like I don't know how long I Don't know how long. I remember there's one gentleman here three years ago now.

Yeah, he actually ended he's actually back in jail a couple you'll know who this is but most of you won't. But soon after something horrific happened the church had to get involved. Within it seemed like a Couple months.

He was asking me when we can ordain him as a pastor. It's a good deer you deer caught in the headlight. Look right I'm reading this right this email. What is wrong with me Lord? What? Don't in a nutshell.

I was cordial nice, but I don't even don't even bring this kind of stuff up. Don't even talk to me about this right? That's not even on the radar. Well Shane what about offering hope we offer hope in segments and say maybe someday if a lot of things change.

But you don't give a time frame on it because what happens is they'll do certain things until the time frames up. Right if I tell my son just be good for the next 30 minutes. And then you can do this guess what he's gonna do for the next 30 minutes.

His heart hasn't changed though. So we don't put time frames on thing now. It's okay to say yeah. We can revisit this in three months or six months, and here's what I'd like to see during that time period.

But you don't you want to avoid putting a time frame on it because then you got to rush to that time frame. And here's why time is needed to revisit progress. Talk to family members and reassess the situation.

We encourage and believe the best in others. But we also wait and we verify what was Ronald Reagan's famous saying trust but verify. Trust but verify was I think he was dealing with Russia back then yes, we trust you, but we're going to verify.

I think we should tell Obama should have said that to Iran as well, right? Don't get me started you guys come on anyway. But if he refuses even to hear the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church now think about this environment and people have told me before that seems a little harsh.

Jesus seems harsh here shame help me understand this well. Let's let's put this hole in context, but if he refuses to hear the church. Here's the context of this a person goes to somebody and says listen.

Here's the offense. They say I don't care I don't want to hear it. They come weeks. Maybe later praying about it. They come with mature men or women and they address the person again. It's I don't want to hear.

I must I'm not it's not my fault right excuses. And then they bring more people they tell the church so this guy now is in a point of arrogance and rebellion. There's nothing there's nothing pleasant about this.

This is arrogance and rebellion at its core and Jesus says you better address it. If a person it doesn't want to hear the confrontation one, okay, I got it. Then they don't want to hear a couple witnesses.

Leadership in the church, and then they don't want to listen to the whole church, and they still think they're right. That's rebellion. That's arrogance and rebellion if you if I've ever seen arrogance or rebellion.

So that's why the next step has to occur. So always remember the church doesn't create this environment the person does. So when the person gets upset you have to remind them. I think you created this environment not me.

People get upset. Did you know that they get upset the church? This message right now will upset people probably in the first and second service. And you have to remind them that you created this environment not me.

We're just responding to the environment you created. That's good. That's occurring here. Now what if the person doesn't listen and that's what we talked about earlier. I don't have to explain this again.

Church Leadership, Gossip, and Protecting the Victim

How the church handles it is you go to the group of people who know this person there's influence you probably I'm going to talk about a few things in a minute, but that's who the ecclesiast. That's who the church is their area of influence determines who you tell and you say listen.

Here's this person. They're caught in Trent in the transgression. They're caught in this sin. We need to pray for them. We need to fast and pray and pray that God will work in their heart. Because whether they admit it or not once you get to this process, it's pretty humiliating.

Do you think the person will be humiliated in a good way? Right that they can't believe they're going through this me not me. I'm such and such. I'm Joe Bible. Well, often it's Joe Bible who needs a swift.