How Do We Help Women Deal With Anxiety And Depression Without Drugging Them Into A Stupor?

Warning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences.

These audiences may include but are not limited to, professing Christians who never read their Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man

bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies.

Viewer discretion is advised.

People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio.

The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone, and any who reject

Christ, therefore, forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of

heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of Almighty

God is hanging over our heads.

They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath

come, they will be consumed, and they will perish.

God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended, and became a man,

died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand

of the Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods

of divine judgment come, in that final day, their house will stand.

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

I'm your host, Tim Mullett, and I'm joined with my lovely wife, Elizabeth Mullett, as we answer the age -old question, how do we help

women deal with anxiety and depression without drugging them into a stupor?

So, Honey Biscuit, have you ever dealt.

With anxiety and depression before?

I have experienced them, unfortunately.

I think most people, when you talk about anxiety and depression, if you talk about them as

individuals who are not currently mastered by life -dominating anxiety and depression,

they think that somehow you've never experienced these things.

So, we did this Twitter poll that seemed to set the Twitter world on

fire.

We had 7 .2 million views on this stupid, innocuous

Twitter post about ladies with messy houses, in other words.

So, I put this message out where I showed some pictures of some messy houses,

and I said that, essentially, I go into houses like this every day for my job, and these women, they're

probably all on antidepressants, and they use this label that

they're depressed as a club to basically bash away all responsibility to clean their

home.

We had millions of views on this stupid thing, and we had ladies who just were screaming and hollering at

us saying that they are leaving Christianity.

How dare we rebuke them?

How dare we tell them that there's another man trying to speak to women's issues?

I mean, that's essentially how it went.

So, they're just screaming at us, how dare we tell them that they have to clean their home, and all this stuff.

This is why I am practicing witchcraft, or I've become a druid, or something like that now,

because of these ridiculous patriarchal men who dare to suggest that we should clean our home.

But you have some experience like this with ladies online, on Facebook groups in general,

to where you have ladies who are essentially screaming at you, and calling you names, and everything

else, because you're daring to suggest to them that they need to take personal responsibility and

actually repent of sin in their life.

Yeah, yeah, it's happened.

It's happened to me.

I'm a victim.

Yeah, just in Christian women groups, unfortunately, it

happens all too often where a woman will come on asking for help dealing with anxiety,

depression, just can't get my life together, how do you guys stay on top of

all the things we have to do at home, and taking care of the kids, and your husband, and

all the things.

And basically, you know, they may even just outright confess in their

posts that they are anxious, depressed, worried, overwhelmed,

all these things, what do I need to do?

And immediately, the majority of the comments are, have you had, you

know, your, have you had your levels checked?

It's always this, like, vague, like, have you had your levels checked?

Like, all women know what that means.

Like, have you gone and had your thyroid checked?

Did you check and see if you have a vitamin D deficiency?

Whatever, if you had your hormones, like, all this stuff done, like, you need to run tests, because that's,

you need to check there first.

Like, don't repent of your worry, and your anxiety, and your

inability to get off the couch, and wash some dishes, and cook some food.

Don't repent of it, and actually put off, and put on, do the God honoring thing,

you probably need a pill.

You need some supplement, or some vitamin, or there's something wrong with

you physically.

Not to say that there aren't things that contribute to feeling poorly,

and that being a temptation to want to sit around and do nothing, or to want to sit around

and be sad, and feel hopeless, and despair at life, and all the things that

have to get done on top of you feeling crappy.

Of course, those are temptations, but it's not an excuse when God commands us to

rejoice in all things.

He commands us to work unto Him, which means, like, be a hard worker, get up,

do your job, and He doesn't say anything about, you know, rejoice in all things except when you're severely

deficient in vitamin D, or have a

overactive thyroid, or something.

So, but when I try to tell women, I try to comment and say, like, you need to ask the Lord to

forgive you for not rejoicing, and I try to do it in a loving way.

Have you tried asking God to forgive you?

Have you tried reading God's Word on what He says you should be doing in this area, and it's just,

you've lost your mind?

That's so mean.

That's so hateful.

Well, it's funny, because, I mean, as I've read your comments on these things, I mean, you're obviously, when you say these things, you're

a lot more nice, and a lot more kind, and you, not that I'm,

I don't think that I'm rude when I say these things, but I definitely don't, you know, on the front end of things.

You're just a guy, and you're blunt, and sometimes you talk to women as if you talk to guys, which guys can handle, and so when

they can't handle it, they can't handle the truthfulness without, like, a bouquet of roses to dash, and even then, they may not be truthful.

That's what I'm saying, though, because, like, when I look at your comments, you put all the, you know, the bouquet of roses, and like, hey, I….

Flowers and smiley faces, and I promise I love you when I'm telling you the truth.

No, you put all that stuff on there, you know, I love you, I care about you, and, you know, this is what helped me, and, you know, I'm not trying to

be, you know, I'm not trying to….

I try to relate, I try to say, like, I've had the same struggles, I know, because how dare, you know, don't dare to

talk to anyone if you don't know, if you haven't been there.

You do all that, you put, like, paragraph after paragraph of concern, and care, and,

you know, all that, but then you, like, you still, though, you end on the, you need to repent of this,

and, like, that's the thing that's really triggering, and it's triggering either way, so, I mean, that's the thing that ladies really,

they really can't handle, you know, whether or not it's coming, like, in a nice, like,

pleasant package, or if it's coming, like, in my way, just more of a direct matter of fact

way, but, I mean, that's the thing that really most people can't handle, but, I mean, most people, they really

do assume that if you're talking about this subject,

and you're daring to suggest that there's an answer to these things, they instantaneously assume that it's just something

that you've never dealt with, and it's something that you've never been through, and, I mean, I know that in my life,

I mean, I, I mean, I was trained in anxiety from a very

early age, I mean, I grew up being an anxious person, I grew up being, like, characterized by life dominating

anxiety in a lot of ways, I mean, it's just, you know, I mean, the air you breathe, you know, you need to get an A on the test, if you don't get an A on the

test, you're, you know, you're not gonna do well in school, and if you don't do well in school, you're not gonna be able to

get a good job, like, go to college or whatever, and get a scholarship, and if you don't get a scholarship and go to

college, then you're not gonna be able to get a good job, and if you don't get a good job, you're not gonna be able to get married, and, you know, nobody's

gonna want to marry you, and you're not gonna be able to, you know, provide for a family, and, you know, then you're gonna be in debt, and, you

know, all this stuff, and so, I mean, I knew that from an early age, I mean, and there was times in

my life where I was severely depressed, I mean like early years in college, I

pursued sin with all that I could and I saw that it didn't work, it didn't leave me

fulfilled, it didn't offer what I thought it would, and I mean I was so depressed at that point in my life

that my mom was worried about me, like legitimately concerned about me.

And I went to the doctor at that point and it was one of those things where

I go to the doctor and I'm just persuaded there must be something wrong with me because I just feel sick, like I

feel terrible, I feel sick.

And you know the doctor runs all the tests and is saying hey there's nothing wrong with you and I just didn't believe him, I'm like

this can't be right because I feel so bad because I

must be sick, the test ran up empty and he just kind of looked at me and asked me are you depressed

and I said yes and he said well that's what it is and he wanted to put me on an antidepressant at that

point and I remember that just being a turning point in my life to where

I thought like I can't keep doing this, I can't just feel this bad.

And that really drove me to read the Bible and to pray and to seriously study the scripture and thinking well

God has answers to these things.

There has to be answers.

Yeah there has to be answers and I'm going to find out what they are because if there's nothing medically wrong with me

I'm not going to turn to these drugs in order to fix life problems, like this is just a life problem here.

But I mean you have experience like that too and I mean that was a

turning point for me where for me I haven't been characterized by a lifetime of

anxiety and worry since.

Then.

I mean you know when you have job situations come along.

You're tempted to that and we've had tough church situations come along where you've noticed that.

I've certainly been sad and disoriented and not knowing how to

handle certain things but I mean these are things that you've dealt with too.

I was a little bit more stubborn to turn from them than you were

I think, kind of grew up the same way, characterized by anxiety

and depression, discontentment with life circumstances, kind of grew up in

a type of church where you're always afraid you're going to lose your salvation, everything is kind of workspace and

so for a kid you're just anxious all the time, your stomach is in knots constantly and then

you know maybe home life and things like that contributed in some ways too and that

just carried over into the teen years and then young adult years and then I'm claiming to be a Christian but that's what I'm characterized by

is just worry, fear, anxiety, depression, that kind of snowballing and leading into

like guilt and shame and just kind of laziness and

slothfulness and procrastination and then it's just over and over and over again because I was

never taking those thoughts captive or just repenting of

my actions in that area until I didn't have anybody really in my life

trying to keep me accountable in those ways until I met you and you by

God's grace helped me but I was so stubborn to see it for what it

was and to turn from it I think, to turn from my sinful

habits of anxiety and depression and fear and definitely

weak in those areas and just didn't think that there was any hope for real change for a long time

early in our marriage probably tempted you towards

anxiety.

I plead the fifth.

Yeah but yeah definitely have personal experience with that and

you have your own personal experience with it and then experience trying to help someone deal with that in a biblical way and

you know I was never tempted towards I never got to a place of such despair or desperation

that I that I thought medication was the way like I do think that

for anybody that turns to for a Christian at least and we're not talking about unbelievers obviously they there's no

hope there they don't have anything else to turn to.

But for the Christian for women especially but anybody who I guess turns

to antidepressants there's an aspect of getting to a like you just you're

never doing the work of turning from the sin.

I guess you're just letting yourself stay in despair and stay in a

place of sinful worry sinful lack of joy choosing to not rejoice in your life be

content be thankful and it keeps going and going and going until you get to you can get to a really dark

place in a really desperate place you think I just need to get out

of this.

I'm so I just need to feel better so you turn to doctors and you like you did that

one time thinking there's got to be something wrong with me.

It can't be that I'm not repenting it can't be that I've got some sin in my life that I haven't turned from.

Can't possibly be that.

So yes doctor give me the pill give me the pill that when I take it I might feel better

tomorrow this is gonna be these feelings are gonna be gone.

Especially for women.

That's you know appealing.

But as you're talking to the women online I mean you frequently have gotten women very

offended at you.

I mean in these Facebook groups and in these that you know mommy blog kind of groups and it seems like you know the ladies over and

over and over again they they only think about these topics in terms of you know biological

solutions as you're mentioning like they need to get their hormones check they need to change their diet they need to exercise they need to

go out and ground or whatever.

But then what.

They they all seem like very hostile to.

Like the idea that they need to repent and that these are spiritual problems.

That they need to with spiritual solutions I mean and you've even had like people like your post removed

and yeah.

I've had comments deleted.

Yeah just it's it's insane.

Especially having to double -check that I'm in a Christian group where this is being discussed.

Having to make sure like wait what group am I in am I am I on.

Like my crunchy mom's group of just the melting pot of all the moms.

Or like oh this is the Christian group that this is in.

And they're deleting my comments and they're warning me that I'm going to be removed.

Because I told someone they needed to seek the Lord's forgiveness

for their behavior for their laziness for their lack of joy for their um

all the things that they put in their post.

How dare I tell them that they needed to repent of it.

Even trying to do it in a loving way trying to like frame it in a way that's like look I'm not trying to

be mean I'm not trying to act like I've got it all together.

When I tell you when I try to tell you what I believe to be the truth in God's word that there's hope.

Um but you have to do the work they don't.

We don't want to do the work we want.

A quick fix of what a pill might give us what we're promised in the medication.

Um instead of the work of repentance actively turning from these things putting off

this sin and putting on obedience and the hard work of

living a faithful life.

In these areas so a lot of what happens you know so as I was um making that post online I had all

there was um you know post after post after post saying this is why I hate Christianity and

this is why I hate Christians and this is why I'm turning to witchcraft and you know all this kind of stuff

this is why I left the church I mean you'd even have the funny ones I was I was considering going back to church and then I saw this and I don't want anything to do

with you hypocrites.

Yeah so they had that kind of reaction which is just I mean it's basically I don't want accountability in my life

whatsoever and I don't want to be told what to do.

I mean it's um you know Jesus says that like the men love the darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil

and you know why do you hate me it's because I testify to you that your works are evil.

So I mean that's obviously going to be part of the reaction is that people they just don't want to hear that they're the problem and you

know as you're saying they're looking for these you know simple fixes to all that.

But then um a lot of people also they had this um

response that like if you say that people should repent of their anxiety

and if you say that they should they should repent of their depression and their worry and their sloth like their

idleness like these ladies need to you know get it together clean their home and everything else.

Like if you say that they need to repent of these things then what they'll immediately say is like that you're you're

asking them to pray away the anxiety and a lot of it is that they just don't understand really how

like depression anxiety actually work.

And so when you think about it like the way depression works is that

God's made us in such a way that when we make an irresponsible choice we're going to feel guilt and

shame and condemnation that comes from that irresponsible choice.

And so you can imagine like depression like a spiral like a downward spiral into depression.

So you know you make irresponsible choice number one and you're going to feel guilt and shame and condemnation

from that choice.

And then what happens is like that when you you try to deal with that guilt

shame and condemnation that you feel that's going to typically lead you to like

irresponsible choice number two right.

So you do irresponsible choice number two and then you're going to get all the guilt and shame and condemnation from that.

And then you know in response to that you're gonna you know because you feel all this shame you feel all this guilt

you feel this then it's responsible choice number three.

And pretty soon i mean you're like you know irresponsible choice number 20 down the rabbit hole of depression.

I mean you wake up and you say hey like there's dishes all over my sink like all my sink all over my counters

everything's a mess.

You know there's clothes laying around the house all over the place.

You know i'm sitting around all day long doing nothing because i'm weighed down by this guilt and shame.

I'm not.

You know i'm doing the bare minimum at home.

I'm just kind of laying around all day long.

I'm snapping at my kids snapping at my husband you know everything else.

And like you you get to the very end of that kind of spiral and you know then

it's just like hey you know if you're praying anything at that point it's just god.

Can you make my feelings go.

Better.

Right right i could just.

And then you've got the issue of sometimes people not praying at all just trying to hide

from the lord.

Um because they feel so guilt ridden over the disobedience.

And then they keep hiding.

And they keep hiding.

And it gets worse and worse because not going to him about it confessing it and turning from it it

just stays.

And then it builds upon that you keep making that choice every day to not turn from it.

So i'm just gonna i see i see the pile of dishes i see them whatever.

I'm just gonna like ignore that i'm gonna go lay in my bed.

They're depressed that they let it get this way.

They're unhappy in their life for whatever reason whether god's that got them in a season of uh

trial or whatever it is and they're not choosing joy in that.

So they let everything go.

And then they ignore it.

And they go hide under the blankets.

Um instead of just repenting and turning to the lord and saying please forgive me for giving into that please

forgive me for giving into that.

Lack of joy um the anxiety whatever it is laziness to not do the things that you call me to

do as a wife and mother.

And then just feeling hopelessness like i'll never change.

And they never.

And they just they don't get out of it.

Well i mean a lot of it is what you're saying like in terms of the.

It's just that simple.

Adam and eve in the garden.

Yeah like they sin.

And then they hide themselves from the lord and instead of coming to him and accepting his forgiveness

and starting to make responsible.

Choices.

What they're doing is they let the shame and guilt take over thinking that they thinking

that they can actually really hide from him as if he doesn't see.

And know.

But then he does.

I mean he obviously he's looking he sees.

He knows what you're you know he knows what you're doing.

And um it.

And so you know what happens often is like you have people they're at this end they're in they're at the end of this spiral right

at the very end.

And they're not coming to god with it.

They're not making responsible choices or like 20 bad choices in and then

then at that point they're just saying hey lord take the bad feelings away.

If they say anything right like this i want to feel better.

Like and and i'll you know.

And you you could probably speak to that too.

I mean ladies in in the midst of depression and despair.

I mean like it all just turns into i feel bad and i want the bad feelings to go away.

And i'm desperate to latch on to anything.

You've let it go too far and now you're to this point where just make it stop.

Right.

So yes please please give me the medication if that will just make this all stop and i get it it.

It's when you're in it.

It feels hopeless when you've gotten to that point.

I've been there when you just have.

You've made the choices over and over again.

You've yourself get to this place this pit and it feels really really hard to

get out of it.

But it's not it's just make the choice go to the lord um

he's faithful and just to forgive us.

And sometimes like yeah yes we just keep running yeah you keep running.

And then um you know and so when you think about like what what's happening there you know they if

if they're praying for anything it's lord take it away.

But then they're you know all the the mom the moms together are latching onto all the materialistic kind of

solutions.

It's like hey take this vitamin you know get your hormones checked go outside

you know a lot of people right now are going to diet.

And exercise which i mean obviously you know of course by all means you know

examine your life and see if there's things that are stumbling blocks for you.

Whether it's um for health because you've made um you've made poor

decisions on what you fuel your body with.

Or um so maybe you are lacking in things that really do help you feel better.

And so you're putting these stumbling blocks in your life maybe you're maybe you're overweight and so that's

contributing to feeling um it feeling really difficult to get up and do your jobs because you have

let yourself go.

You're not taking care of yourself been there done that.

So yeah you're putting stumbling blocks in your life.

So definitely like examine those things and say okay um i need to obey no matter what.

But are there things in my life that that i'm allowing to be there.

Am i not taking care of myself.

Am i not clothing myself in strength you know to do the task that god has called me to do.

Um am i looking to the world to tell me what my

home should look like.

So i'm getting depressed because my house doesn't look like the picture.

Perfect little pinterest house.

So why bother.

Why why clean it.

Why do dishes.

Why do anything my bills don't look like these mills.

My my uh decor doesn't look as good as these people.

My my this my that isn't good enough.

So i'm not even going to bother.

So you're just not being thankful.

So get these stumbling blocks out of your life for sure.

And things things will feel easier if you're removing some of these obstacles.

But that still even if you choose not to do that you still don't have an excuse to sit there

um and sin in these ways giving into these fears and anxiety and depression and

discontentment.

And ungratefulness.

There's still no excuse.

But then people seem to be genuinely hostile to treating these things as

spiritual solutions.

Yeah like meaning.

I mean you could you could you could tell them all day long.

Um hey go take a vitamin.

Tell them all day long.

Go you know go get on that antidepressants because sometimes it's hard.

You know you can tell them all day long get your hormones checked and go to the doctor and see if it's a thyroid thing and whatever else.

But what they really don't want to hear is that this is uh like this is a you problem.

Like that you need to rejoice in the lord and that you need to be taking your thoughts captive.

Um.

And it seems like ladies that are particularly hostile to that in general.

I mean that's sure.

I mean that's been your experience.

When you've talked to them online definitely definitely it's been my experience and even i'm

watching you with um with your online interactions too.

I mean like this twitter post for instance it's just maddening to

watch to watch the reaction to it all and it's just it's proof to like

that.

And maybe maybe there are plenty of husbands who are trying to hold their wives accountable and they're just

um kind of hitting a brick wall where you can't get through.

And the wife is just not gonna hear it.

But a lot of times men maybe they tried in the beginning and it didn't go well and they gave up.

Maybe they're too passive and they've never tried at all.

But men really need to take responsibility in that area too of holding their wives accountable and calling them

to repentance.

She's your sister in christ.

Um you know she's your wife but she's your sister in christ and we're commanded to you see your

brother sinning to um to point it out and that's the loving thing to do.

To point it out and to call them to repentance and to care enough to do that.

That is not loving at all to just watch somebody um live in

sin in any way and just watch it like well they won't listen to me.

So i'm just not going to bother saying anything.

And that doesn't.

That doesn't do anything good for your marriage doesn't do anything good for that friendship that relationship with each other

either.

If you're not going to do your job as christian brother of hers and call her to repentance and keep her accountable

um in your walk together in your marriage.

So husbands need to step up too and be faithful.

And that if your wife has been giving into these sins for a long time it may

seem um impossible.

It may seem like oh this is gonna she's just not having it.

I'm trying to do it.

She's not having it like you know.

But you don't need to be like that either you need to not give up as a husband and give into the despair of

she's never gonna change.

I'm not gonna bother.

This is crazy.

It's just like not happening.

Call her to repentance be faithful and god will bless that.

Even if she doesn't change you're still gonna reap the blessings of just obeying the.

One in that area yeah and i think that you know as you think about depression as a spiral that

we're talking about like just it's a series of uh these choices and so i could i mean you can imagine

your 20 irresponsible choices in and like these are you know i mean these are obviously issues that both of you both

you and i we we have personal experience with in a wide variety of ways.

And i can you imagine if you're just like at the very end of this spiral and you're down

in the shame and condemnation that comes from being 20 bad

decisions in so you know what people often do is you know as we said they they

start out by saying hey lord take it away.

He doesn't take it away.

They try all these other solutions and you know that doesn't work.

You know a lot of them they just accept this is who i am right this is who i am like this is who i'm just gonna be.

They take their drugs and they turn into a drug addict uh psychotropic drug addict forever.

But then you know what's deceptive about it is it's like well all right i'm gonna try to clean my dishes.

Right.

So i'm gonna go i'm gonna take one step and it's like yeah i clean my dishes i still feel terrible you know

right.

That didn't work.

That is that that is the trap.

That is definitely.

Like women get so lost in that that it doesn't um

that's another part of it.

Like women don't want to accept the calling that god has placed on their lives

as a wife and a mother they want more.

It's the old you know just feminism mindset of like this.

Is this really all there is this is it.

Um and that can be they could we could choose to get really depressed at like is that all.

And it's like such a foolish way of thinking like what do you mean is that all this is a lot this is this

is a blessing and this is a this is more than plenty.

This is enough taking care of kids and a.

Home and a husband.

You get a raise and get the privilege generation right.

Yeah you're responsible.

For this is a big deal and we've just been sold these lies that it is

not enough that you need more than that.

Like being stuck at home.

You're stuck.

You're.

That's that's what your life is.

You are just stuck keep poor thing poor us we're stuck here.

We're less than we're stuck.

This is our lot in life to do these lowly little tasks that nobody else wants to do.

Um and so we sink into this.

Just believe the lies get depressed.

Train wreck cycle over and over and over and over again.

You know.

Yeah like you said like well i prayed.

Um you know maybe i did pray and ask the lord to forgive me.

For you know my lack of joy and my lack of um.

But then i'm back at it.

I'm back at it rejoicing.

But i woke up this morning.

I did the dishes last night.

Or i did i okay i fixed some stuff i did whatever i repented i put off i put on.

And i woke up today and i still feel blah.

So apparently i need something more.

I need something else.

This isn't.

Yes okay i'm gonna pray i'm gonna read my bible.

But i need something on top of all that it's not enough.

God's word is not sufficient for me.

I need that.

Plus this pill.

It's like the whole jesus plus thing like the other religions who are like oh yeah sure you know i worship these

gods but in jesus is cool too.

I'll add him to the thing it really is like a jesus.

And like jesus plus my medication jesus plus whatever.

It's like no that's not.

Jesus is enough.

And you need to really believe that.

Um yeah we just get so lost in the lies and discontentment

ungratefulness.

Yeah i mean you know a lot of people if they.

Could realize that you know if it took you 10 years to get into you know this mess it may take you you

know 10 years to get out of it and a lot of people are looking for just some kind of quick instant you know take it all away make the bad feelings

all go away but they don't want all the work that's going to come you know from making lifestyle changes from

as you're saying taking every thought captive to the obedience of christ of you know putting off the bad behavior putting on the good

behavior addressing like the idols in their heart they're leading to this discontentment.

Uh you know and all the envy and all the comparisons and everything else.

Yeah i mean obviously it's a lot of work and it's not going to happen overnight but you know as we're we're looking at the post um

you know you had the this is why i hate christianity i'm going to become a you know a

witch at this point you had all those yeah you know you i mean you i mean they're basically the john the

baptist rebuking harrod for having his you know brother's wife and you know uh he's

then uh getting john the baptist head on a platter because he doesn't want to be confronted at that point so i mean you do have that

like don't touch my sin you know don't tell me i'm a sinner i'm don't tell me i'm a sinner whatever you do or i'll

scream at you and don't tell me i need to change because i don't want to and whatever you do.

I'm not the fault i'm not.

So you have all those kind of responses but then you know you don't also have the responses where

the ladies are kind of looking at you and they're saying you know there's two parts of this

like you know where's the man.

Why isn't the man doing the dishes.

Right.

So why isn't it like men make messes too so why should i have to clean this up.

So even if the husband's working all day long at his job like he needs to apparently come home and do all your

jobs to do all your jobs.

So you didn't do all day because you were upset right.

So yeah so like part of it's that and then part of it is why is this my job.

And then the other part is like if this person is hurting and in pain shouldn't you help them

by doing their job for you.

Right.

So what would you say to that.

Well um you tried that.

Early on in our marriage and you know in this whole discussion we're not you know we're not talking about

seasons of life where um like a woman has a c -section or something legitimately cannot

pull her weight in these areas and so hopefully she has a loving

compassionate husband.

Well that's what people do.

Step up and and carry the load like bear one another's burdens.

And so if you're in a legitimate season of life where you cannot like you have had back surgery you are

maybe you are having yeah maybe you are having a really legitimately horrible pregnancy.

There are women that are bedridden.

I mean we have friends at church that have gone through things like this.

Um you're bedridden.

You're in these situations where you literally can't do um that your tasks

to the fullest the way that you're used to.

Maybe you can do like these like a bare minimum.

And so yeah he is gonna love hopefully lovingly come in and help and um

pick up the slack while you're in this trial.

That's not what we're talking about.

We're talking about a woman that's characterized by a discontent

heart an ungrateful heart who's given in to despair and

hopelessness to the point that she has given up um and just completely

let go and says like i i can't i can't.

Where's my fainting couch.

I can't do this.

It's too hard it's too much you do it for me.

Basically i think in those kind of situations that's definitely something.

That um most um most people online they're just expecting that

it if a man loves a woman then he's just going to step in and do her job for her.

And that's just kind of the assumption.

The assumption is if she's in this deep dark pit you know the only answer to that is going to be that he's going to

come in and he's going to do it he's just going to take it over he's going to do her job for her.

He's going to you know take it on for himself.

I mean he can work his you know 40 50 hour week job and then come home and

you know do it.

So part of it is like there's this expectation that if you love her you're going to take her job for your her.

Yeah which is the which is a problem.

And then there's another part of it that is just this expectation that

the like this job is just overwhelmingly hard in general.

And so we had people who were posting online you know about like 19th century homemakers or whatever and

like you know 100 years ago the homemaker job took like in order to do everything that there is to do today to watch the

clothes to cook to clean to do the dishes and beat the rugs you know go out to the

stream to gather water i mean it was like a job that took 19 hours to do and then when you think

about like what's happening right now is i mean you're in a situation where you have microwaves have dishwashers you have

you know um you have um washing you have dryers

you have you know uh appliances microwaves everything else.

And so you know part of this discussion is like hey man if a man loves me he's going to step in and help.

Right right.

And then the other part of it is it's just so much to do and like

it's way beyond like a single woman's ability to do sure so you know.

What would you say to women like that.

Get over yourself.

Um i mean yeah i mean we're not saying either that.

Like i think sometimes people hear these kind of conversations and they think you're trying to say that a man

just comes home and he goes and sits in his lazy boy and that's what we're um advocating for or expecting.

And that's not it either.

I think that it's totally fine like a husband knows that his wife is being faithful and um by

all means he can come home and he can jump in there and like hey babe do you need any help with anything.

She's over there cooking and you know he sees that she's been working.

He sees that the kids are still alive.

She obviously did something.

She obviously did something today.

Um so of course it's not to say that he can't like do

anything like to help her.

It's not that it's just taking over her role completely going to work eight nine ten

eleven hours a day and your wife does nothing because she's so.

But they say they.

They say that they're you know they've been working all day long watching these kids while the

clothes pile up and everything else.

Yeah so i mean like most women are going to fight you on that they're going to say hey you know you don't know what it's like

to watch kids all day.

Long and everything else.

But sure yeah there's seasons there's seasons that are going to be.

We're not.

When we say we're not saying it's like easy um in that sense like it's all just like

a bed of roses and little golden streets and everything's happy unicorns.

Of course it's work.

We were put here to work so of course the husbands are out laboring for us to bring home money.

We're laboring at home.

It's not like easy in that sense um but it's not rocket science to take

care of your kids.

And everything does not have to be perfect.

If you're being faithful hopefully you have a husband who's not expecting perfection.

And you need to not expect perfection out of yourself either because we can get hung up on that too.

And i know i've i've struggled with a temptation towards perfectionism um throughout my whole life in

all kinds of areas.

And so of course in homemaking that has um come into play where you know if i

can't get it just right i just give up and so it's like kind of don't do anything if i can't if i know

it's not gonna be perfect.

It's not gonna be right.

I just don't bother because that's depressing um there i am with depression again.

So um yeah i just you just have to

be faithful and you just have to do the work.

Yeah it's gonna be hard.

We can't we can't just expect this quick fix in life for everything to be easy.

Um it's work.

God's called us to work.

He's put us here to work.

We have we've been given dominion over over the earth.

And women have a role in that.

This is our role.

Accept your role and move.

On and have joy in it.

I think that's the thing rejoicing the lord here.

Yeah i think that's the that's really offensive is like the idea that there might be roles you know.

Yeah.

So then if they're all this yeah roles.

Like if there's roles like so most most ladies in this kind of situation they they don't feel any guilt

whatsoever.

You know saying to the man um yeah you should go do your job and work you know eight ten hours

a day for me and then come share in mine.

Meaning basically do all of them for me.

Well and that's i mean that's just not all.

So that's what.

Typically happens so like when you're looking at these kind of things i mean i i know of plenty of situations like this that i won't mention

specifically by name where people just let their house go and they like they just let it go and they let it go.

And then you know what people don't realize is that you know you can come into that kind of situation.

You try to take it over you try like you think the compassionate thing is to try to help people.

And the problem is hey you clean their house for them.

It's just going to go back to messy in a couple weeks right.

Like because they don't have this thing in them that they need um like meaning like

they just let it go and they've let it go and they let it go and they don't have whatever they need to have.

Um to take responsibility for their life and take responsibility for this mess and to say hey it's my job to clean it up and i'm gonna

do it.

And so i mean you can step in and like you think oh well yeah the compassionate thing is to help them.

But the problem is when you help them like you're just enabling them.

Definitely.

And and so i think you have like a lot of ladies in this situation who like they

they equate like if you love me you'll do my job for me.

Essentially.

Yeah and i know that you know you tried to do that early on when i was

pregnant with one of the boys and i had fairly easy

pregnancies but just didn't respond well to even my easy pregnancies.

There was a lot of like oh this is so hard i can't handle it and so i did give in to

just those overwhelmed feelings.

And this is also hard being pregnant and still having to take care of the house and take care of two other toddlers.

And um letting you know letting the dishes pile up some and you know

you had a couple of things that were kind of like i you know you didn't ask much of me but you

like the dishes being done and like the laundry being

folded and put away were like important to you.

That made you feel like the house is clean like there could be toys all over the floor.

But you felt good if the dishes were cleaned and put away and the laundry was clean and put away so like even

if i only did the two things that were the most important to you um

that's like nothing but i just couldn't even handle that giving into my feelings

and my uh i'm so tired and so whatever.

And so you tried to help and think like okay she's pregnant she's got you know two other toddlers to take

care of you know this i'll help her out and i'll do it.

And you did it for a few days in a row.

And then i did i remember thinking like i would see the dishes there and think like

oh i'm just too tired for this.

I know he'll get it when he comes home he's been he'll do it because he's been doing it the past few days he'll do it.

And then you finally like were like this is not helping her.

She's not realizing you know that she needs to get in here and do this and be faithful by me doing it

for her.

So you just stopped the dishes for like a week before i got it in here

and got it together.

But yeah it's not helpful.

Well i think i think let's take over.

Yeah the lie is that you're going to help a person that way.

But then the problem is that like all the guilt and shame and despair that they're feeling

is like they're feeling that because god's made them to work essentially and like and that's something that's not really factored in.

So you know ecclesiastes talks like the preacher in ecclesiastes he says that i've seen that there's nothing better than a man

rejoicing the toil with which god has given him to toil under the sun.

And you know like a big part of this is that god's made us to work.

And when we don't work then we feel this despair and we feel this hopelessness.

And i mean that's essentially what the jew the nazis did to the jews.

I mean you know the nazis like would make the jews build a wall and then after the jews built the wall the

nazis would make them tear it tear it down.

You know immediately in a way to demoralize them.

And the reason why it was demoralizing is because everyone you know everyone knows even the pagans know that work gives you

this sense of accomplishment.

Right.

Like that you've done something that you've done something productive.

But then if you make someone work and then you say hey you were working for nothing.

Right.

There was no purpose like that totally demoralizes them.

But then the idea though is i think what a lot of people don't understand in this depression discussion in general is that

they think hey the way you love someone is to help them.

But the problem is if you take over their job like what we're talking about like if you take over their job then what you've done is you're

trapping them in this despair and this guilt and this hopelessness.

Okay and like you think you're helping but really it's like you're harming them.

Because because what you're telling them is like you don't really have a reason to be here.

Right.

Sure like you know you whatever your reason to be here is i can do it for you.

And so i guess you know we don't even know.

Why you're here.

Right.

Yeah.

And i think sometimes women when they are given over to depression and anxiety they take that

out on their families too.

And then when the husbands try to step in and help and do all their work for them they resent them for it even if

they don't connect that and realize that they are resenting them for it.

There's like a it's it's kind of like you're making it.

You're putting it on display that i'm not doing this because you're stepping.

You're doing it because i'm not doing it.

And i'm not doing it because i'm depressed and anxious.

And it's all too much.

And what was me.

I can't handle life.

And so you're taking it over.

So now they're bitter and angry resentful at you for taking it over.

Because it's just shoving it in their face that they're not doing what they're supposed to do even if that's not what you're

trying to tell them you're not.

You may not be trying to communicate that to him that you think you're just being loving and helpful.

Um by doing it for them while they're in this season of despair that's been going on for five years or

something.

Um but you're just you're not.

You're not doing anything remotely resembling help by

continuing letting them continue to be in this cycle of sinful um

anxiety and depression and thoughtfulness all the

different things.

Well that was one of the things that was interesting.

About the post in general is that you know on the one hand you have all the ladies who are screaming screaming at

us for daring to suggest that they're not doing their jobs.

But i think like part of what was so scandalous about this.

And so i mean it was scandalous in different ways because one you're criticizing women.

Two you're criticizing people are viewed as like psychological victims in that way.

So.

But i think the real shame was actually showing the pictures of what their homes look like.

And yeah like i think that that's part of what you're talking about.

There is where like when the man is doing the job for the woman he's exposing that she's incompetent in a

certain way.

Yeah you know.

And i think when you when i showed the pictures of it i think you know on the one hand you have the ladies are saying this isn't my job

but then intuitively they know it is their job.

Like they know deep down this is my job.

And this reflects so poorly on me.

Yeah.

And then you're making a spectacle out of it like what you're doing is you're exposing my shame.

Right.

And so you have ladies who i'm not even showing pictures of their house.

I'm showing.

Right.

These are just.

Like google image searches googling messy houses and pulling some images you didn't actually take.

Pictures of real women's houses.

Right.

So.

But then they're they're internalizing that and saying you're exposing my shame to the world.

Right.

Right.

And so.

And that's what's part of it.

It's like inescapably they know that a messy house reflects poorly on them as a woman.

Right.

Like it reflects really bad on them as a woman.

And and despite the like the fact that you have all these ladies come along and you want to say hey you know it's okay to

not be perfect and you know it's okay to you know um to not be

enough and all this kind of stuff what ends up happening though is like as you're thinking about these things like they look at it and they know

that hey like this is this is reflecting on me and and this isn't

reflecting very well on me and all this shame and everything else is coming from that.

But you know i mean you've you've experienced this in your own life like you.

You're not gonna get fight these things and get past these things until you.

Actually take responsibility on your own end.

Sure.

Yeah.

Actively.

Um taking those thoughts captive and putting off the sin of of

anxiety worry slothfulness whatever it may be.

That's contributing to the depression and the despair.

The hopeless feelings um the desperate feelings for wanting your life to be

different.

Until i started just taking those thoughts captive.

And asking lord to forgive me and you know leaning on the promises that he does

forgive he's faithful to forgive us.

And you know his mercies are new every day.

Um and fighting that things didn't change until i stopped being

stubborn in in those areas of life and really started actively turning from it.

And it wasn't to say that it all just magically went away overnight.

Or that it then the temptation never comes back.

Um to give into those things that those thoughts never come back.

That's yes they they do they do come back.

Sometimes there are temptations.

Sometimes i get tempted if i slip into a um if i slip into

habits of not taking care of myself.

And so that makes me feel tired and weak.

And whatever.

There's temptations there.

So that's why i talked about that earlier.

Like removing these stumbling blocks from your life.

Um make it a little bit easier on yourself to be able to fight these things.

Don't don't.

Um don't just sit there with all these temptations and never get rid of them.

You've got to get rid of those things too.

But you've got no matter what even if you don't change those things.

Even if you don't change your diet even if you don't make yourself stronger even if you um don't address

some physical thing that might be there that's.

That's making it difficult.

You still don't have an excuse to not rejoice in the lord.

You still don't have an excuse to not be faithful to the task that he's given you as a mother and a wife.

There is no excuse.

There is nothing in the bible that says that um do these things.

Except you know there's nothing like that.

I think a lot of people.

Yeah that a lot of people.

Aren't making basic distinctions along those lines too like meaning.

Um there are a variety of you know physical things obviously that can contribute to

just i don't have any energy i'm weak you know i'm tired i feel sluggish.

I mean obviously like if a lady is sleep deprived you know getting up every few hours to nurse a baby

she's gonna feel crazy.

You know she's gonna she's putting junk in.

Her body and she's you know morbidly obese and not moving

all day.

And those are gonna be temptations for you.

And you know i've been there and done that and maybe not morbidly but i've been in those areas where you just

don't.

You've let yourself go you don't care.

And then you're whining and crying because you have no energy for anything and you don't.

You feel like you can't get anything done because you're not um making

wise choices to make that stuff easier.

But even like i said even then you don't.

You can't just say well lord you know i just couldn't because you know well yeah i mean.

That's the thing so i mean there might be any number of biological things like hey yeah maybe your thyroid's messed up and that's resulting

in lack of energy.

Maybe maybe you know maybe you do need to go on a diet you know get in shape get

better sleep.

You know clothe yourself with strength.

Maybe some of those supplements will help a little bit in terms of just giving you a little more energy restoring your hormones whatever else.

But like at the end of the day though.

I mean there is no biological solution to joy.

There is no biological solution to thanksgiving.

There is no biological solution to trusting in the lord.

Right.

So i mean the bible says trust in lord.

And yeah do not lean on your own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge him and he'll direct your path.

I mean there's no medical solution.

There's no drug that's gonna like help you to trust god and cast your cares upon him because he cares

about you.

There's no you know drug that you're going to take that's going to make you really like thankful.

Like thankful for the life that god's given you thankful for the family that he's giving you.

There's no pill that you're going to take.

That's going to do that.

Like they give you love like sacrificial love for your family like joy peace long suffering uh

gentleness meekness kindness faithfulness self -control.

There's no self -control pill.

There's no joy pill.

There's no long -suffering pill.

There's no there's none of that like and there's no like get on the carnivore diet and you're gonna

have all the fruit of the spirit.

You know i mean it may get more energy you know it may help you sleep better.

It may.

Remove some temptations but you still gotta do the work.

Yeah yeah spiritually.

Yeah so so part of you know as we're we're talking about these things like part of it is um

you know you there's ladies who like instantaneously they say hey like you have this messy

house you need to clean it up quit using depression as a crutch for that they're gonna scream say hey i don't want accountability i

don't want responsibility.

Like you don't know what it's like.

You know you don't know what it's like at the bottom of this pit and everything else.

Um and then you know you need to do my job for me.

That's part of what we talked about.

Like you need to do my job for me.

And then like you know my job is so hard you don't understand how hard it is.

You know.

With modern conveniences.

With with vacuum cleaners and dishwashers and washing machines and dryers and

running water with hot and cold uh plumbing and everything for us.

So hard with the microwaves and the grocery stores that you can go to.

And like it's just so impossible.

So part of it's that.

Delivery you don't even have to leave your house.

So i mean a lot of those things are true.

But then.

You know you know a lot of what you've realized in your life is just the importance of um

like part of why you why you speak to these ladies in such a direct way is because you've had people like

speak to you that kind of way too.

Yeah it's i mean and it was my husband.

You know just ladies listen to your husband when he's trying to rebuke you.

Be thankful if you have anybody in your life um heaven forbid it's a man

who shouldn't be speaking to your woman issues.

But yeah lay down your pride and listen.

But i definitely think that god has.

Designed like marriage in such a way that you know men um men often uh are

stronger in those areas and god's gifted them in such a way to help ladies um

deal with some of these things that maybe they don't actually want to deal with.

But then i mean obviously like you know in marriage after marriage after marriage it's not something like i mean if you see like hey

you say these things to ladies ladies are going to scream at you yeah and if i say these things to ladies

they're.

Going to scream at me.

Yeah it doesn't matter.

The ones that don't want to hear don't want to hear it.

Doesn't matter who's telling them.

Right.

But then i mean there is something to be said about.

Just like you know what you know.

What do you do if you're the husband that kind of scenario.

Right.

Just i mean just be faithful keep on trying.

Right.

Don't give up.

Keep on trying.

Yeah i mean there's no um you know.

And that's often what i'm trying to say to husbands too in these kind of scenarios is just to say hey man.

Like like don't give up.

And you know a lot of what's happening on the ladies end is they want the quick fix.

They just want their feelings to go away magically overnight without having to change how they're thinking how they're acting what they're doing.

Yeah you know.

And then on the other end though the guys they just want to say to their wife like hey honey you know snap

out of it you know.

Let's move on.

Right.

Yeah.

But then i mean our feelings.

Our feelings lie to us constantly and men are much better

at seeing that most of the time and being able to be rational and logical

about it and recognize when that's happening.

And so count yourself blessed if you have a husband who is there in your life pointing these

things out what a blessing that god hasn't left you

to yourself hasn't left you in that sin that if he's put someone in your life um

that's pointing these things out.

And if your husband has given up.

If you're like listening to this episode and you are a woman who is struggling with these things and you

can recognize it by god's grace your eyes are opened to that behavior

and maybe you can think back and say like my husband used to try to tell me this stuff and he doesn't anymore.

Then go to him and ask forgiveness and tell him please you know

start doing that again and and.

Help me you know.

Definitely.

Well i mean i think as we're talking about this subject i mean what we want people to come away with is the idea that.

I mean there is hope you don't have to be dominated by these things.

And you know the bible says that there's no temptation that's overtaken you.

But what is common to man.

And these are.

I mean these are common life problems.

Common.

So common.

Yeah i mean like anxiety depression.

Like there's nothing more common than that.

Like worry is a life problem.

I mean we're sinful human beings living in a sinful world where we you know we're not god in a.

Messed up world there's plenty to be anxious about if you let yourself.

Yeah that's never going to go.

Away this side of heaven right.

I mean like you.

Um i mean you don't know how many days that you're you i mean we we live under this illusion of control

like we think that we're in control of the world.

But we're not.

I mean like we we can barely even figure out what's going to happen the next few moments of our day.

And so like worry is just the natural state of affairs for man.

Um like you know if you even think about the way that god's designed the world he's designed the world in such a way that you have to

sleep eight hours a day and be utterly dependent upon him like

at his you know at the mercy of every of other people around you because he wants to teach you how to trust in

him.

And so like when you're talking about like war like issues like worry like issues like anxiety i mean when you

talk about issues like you know sorrow despair sadness.

Because you know these are just these are basic human problems that all of us

experience.

And the bible has answers to these things you know.

But bible says no temptation is overtaking you.

You know as we said it was coming to man god's faithful.

He's not going to allow you to be tempted beyond your ability but with that temptation he'll provide a way of escape

that you may bear it.

I mean if you just look at the bible you trust the lord with all your heart.

You don't lean on your understanding like just trust that god is god you know and a lot of like these things

like they're as messy as it can feel when you're

in this downward spiral of depression or downward spiral of anxiety.

As messy as that can feel.

I mean like there's just simple answers.

You know trust.

Yeah trust and obey.

There's no other way to be happy in jesus.

Yeah.

Then to trust and obey i mean there's just like like the issue is the christian life isn't really meant to be

complicated but right.

We make it that way.

Yeah we make it.

We make it.

We make it complicated.

I mean we make it hard even though conceptually it's really easy i mean and if your homemaker is easy i mean just

yes you're lit you're doing a job where there's no accountability in it whatsoever.

You know like meaning like the only like the only way you're going to do this job and do it well is if you

if you have the fear of the lord you know that god is sees what you're doing and he's watching what you're doing

and he cares about you and his plans are the best.

But i mean getting up in the morning and you know having a good attitude and cleaning your

home and feeding your kids and teaching your kids homeschooling your kids uh to the glory of god.

And you know that like you're only going to do that.

You're going to do that with a good attitude if you know that you know god rewards those who diligently seek him.

And it it's better to serve him than it is to bow down to your flesh and

give in to despair and give in to hopelessness and give in to sadness and so

absolutely so if there's anything we can leave ladies with and you know men with too if you're with these kind of things as well it's just

to say that um god god's given us answers in his word and he's given us everything and

everything in the scriptures that we need for life and godliness and his ways are good.

But we thank you for um listening and we hope to catch you on the.

Next time this has been another episode of bible bashed we hope you have been encouraged and blessed through our

discussion.

We thank you for all your support and ask you to continue to like and subscribe to bible bashed and share our

podcast with your friends and on social media.

Please reach out to us with your questions pushback and potential topics for us to discuss in future episodes

at biblebashedpodcast at gmail .com and consider supporting us through patreon.

If you would like to be bible bashed personally then please know that we also offer free biblical counseling which you can

take advantage of by emailing us.

Now go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be

perpetually offended by your every move.