Women in the Church — G.W. North

Women’s Place in the Church and the Church as a Whole

Our subject tonight has already been announced. Indeed it was because I was asked to deal with this subject that my heart was led along a line that I had chosen. When I arrived the other day I was asked if I would speak on the place of women in the church.

It was announced that after much sort of thought that it would be Monday night and so you happened to come along on the night that's been chosen. As I say because I was asked especially to speak on the place of women in the church that I felt led to talk about the church as a whole.

I don't see why the women should have it all do you? And so we launched out on our series and I must confess that my own heart has been blessed as we've been moving along this great line of the church.

And tonight then to investigate something about the place of women I don't know why it should be saved up for me and a question like that put to me and a request like that made. I suppose that we've all discovered that we all have a place in the church of Jesus Christ and I don't think when the question was asked it was meant to imply that I wonder if they have any place that is any membership in the church at all.

I don't think that was behind the question but because all our hearts I trust want to come as much as possible into lying with the whole truth. Well now I suppose this would be regarded as a thorny question.

Well we don't mind handing thorns sometimes. We have to be careful how we handle them. And so to the word beloved and the whole matter I suppose is raised along with so many questions that are raised in every generation of children of God.

They want to know this and they want to know that and I do hope all the ladies present don't think all these great overbearing men. They think they're everything or something like that. It isn't that at all.

Sometimes I envy women in that the cheapest place in heaven as we know and as we were considering together last night is really for the bride that is not the cheapest place not including God but exclusively including God.

And so I've often said to so many ladies where I'm counseling them I envy you because you see I'm a man and I've got to put myself into a feminine part. I've got to understand what it is to become a bride and all I can ever understand in the next was how to be a bridegroom or that's all right.

And so in many phases ladies have a great advantage over men and it's a tremendous thing for our hearts to realize that the Lord came to the earth as a lover seeking a bride for all eternity to share with him the place that he shall hold forever in the new creation.

Nevertheless while we're on earth there is a relationship as between male and female and the Lord has said great things about it. Now you know that when God created man he made man male and female and male and female you will read if you go back to the book of Genesis make man.

Paul says when we may be looking at a little later in the Corinthian letter the man wasn't created for the woman but the woman was created for the man nevertheless neither is the man but by the woman and so the Lord brought out of his own heart this great male and female relationship together they made man the species.

It's a tremendous thing for us to understand and enter into it. I was very thrilled once at a wedding to hear that it said that when God made woman he put Adam to sleep and he did not take her out of his head to dominate him and he didn't take her out of his feet that he may dominate her but he took her out of his side that she should be as equal and that's very very wonderful for our hearts to understand this.

And God has conferred many many privileges upon women. The only trouble is that for every privilege that's granted there must be no presumption made and we have to walk in what God has shown us. This also counts for men, men mustn't presume either.

There is a clear line that we must walk together. I hope that when you read your New Testament you notice how that it was the women that the Lord met it was women that first saw the empty tomb it was all so glorious when you come to realize it there's purpose behind it and in resurrection you will remember he met Mary Magdalene and before he met her the angels did and she was weeping at the tomb and the angel said to her woman why weepest thou?

The angels were absolutely baffled if men had been weeping they could have understood it. They couldn't understand women weeping and the whole point of it is that Jesus said the same thing he said to her woman why weepest thou?

If Peter weeps and John weeps and all the other men weep well we could understand that but when the resurrection took place it was a time for women especially to rejoice because then the promise made in Genesis 3 15 had been brought to pass that the seed of the woman would bruise the serpent's head and that she of all creatures ought to have been rejoicing because the woman that was in the transgression as Paul says writing to Timothy you know that Eve was the mother of all living the woman.

The woman had been in the transgression the Lord had rectified it amen she by her great mistake in the beginning it's sin came in though notice God said it came in by Adam. In other words he classified the woman and the man as one but it was nevertheless through the woman through her transgression and her temptation of her husband she offered Adam the fruit the poor weak thing he fell for it.

The Lord put that right amen. And he had redeemed it redeemed her glory be to God. Yes by man came death so by man also came resurrection. So we're told. But you see really it was through woman that the resurrection came.

You see how God puts the male and the female together classifying it as species and it was very very wonderful how the Lord worked all this out. So the women had very much to rejoice in and to her was granted the privilege of bearing the savior.

Man might be envious of that and she has so many glorious positions granted to him scripture. But what she must not do is grasp at that which God has given to men. They have to be allowed in now and again.

They have to have some privileges granted to them and it may be very irksome for some and especially if there are very strong characters in females and I find that there are um well well well the Lord has to sort it all out and put it right for us.

Headship, Mediation, and Spiritual Danger

The church is God's own peculiar people. He the Lord has this for his own territory his own right he rules in it exclusively or he should be allowed to and what he says is perfectly true. Now I was brought up in my sort of teaching background uh with much to a group of people that but uh they uh you know they sort of felt that women weren't allowed to do anything.

That was the kind of idea under which I was brought up and uh my word you could see it working out not of course that it always worked out truly because um well many a man in the assembly has to say what his wife tells him to say before he leaves home because if not there'd be a row about it when he got home because she's very much the boss.

And that of course is all wrong. I don't know what I well I ought to say this in this elite company but uh I have discovered this that I mentioned this at Cliff. I don't want to sort of be too repetitive those of you who are there as the scripture reveals before we can enter the realm of spirit there has to be a medium there has to be a mediator.

In the beginning God made male and female and then the devil deliberately went behind God's back. He ignored the headship of the human race Adam and he aimed at the woman and he went as I have said behind God's back and he got in through the woman and virtually it was through the woman that the spirit the evil spirit was mediated into the human race.

Now quite in keeping with this you will find and here I offer no hints or insults to anybody that the majority of people who function in the spiritualist world what's called spiritualist as mediums they are women.

You'll find for every one man male medium you'll probably find five six perhaps even ten females. They so readily lend themselves to the mediumistic condition position. It's like this of course all spirit needs mediation all spirit.

That's why the Lord Jesus when he rose from the dead had to go back to heaven and he mediated the Holy Spirit into the people. Spirit must come through mediation and women the more readily loan themselves or give themselves up to a mediumistic psychic position.

You must suffer me at this moment to talk from knowledge and a fairly wide experience. I'm constantly dealing with people who are affected by mediumistic spirits. I find that for every male I deal with I'm probably dealing with 20 females that are affected by mediumistic spirits.

You just have to take my word for that. I know you won't doubt me. I'm constantly in the counseling room with people and and so this whole thing uh may if you like as I set this background may come clearer to your mind and to your heart.

Scripture, Revelation, and Freedom to Love

Now the Lord blesses and he moves on people and he does bring us into his church. We've got to avoid extremes in all this. We've got to walk the way of scripture. It seems to me in these days that there is a great rebellion against scripture.

I abhor much that I hear of people for instance standing up in big public meetings and saying I don't read the bible anymore. I used to I don't. They say they're baptized in the Holy Spirit. They say they now get direct revelation from God.

It's great to have revelation from God. We must have revelation from God. But as soon as you stop reading the bible in connection with that what could have come first as revelation will quickly degenerate into nothing else but soulish mumblings and and spreading of man's ideas.

And alongside with this it seems there goes a great breaking down of scriptural standards an overthrowing of things. And the idea that we're in complete liberty and we can do as we like. Uh we're free from the law.

Or we're free from this or we're free from that beloved. I want us all to get into our hearts that the only law virtually that you are free from is the law of sin and death. That's the only law you're free from.

Amen. I hope you are. Are you free from the law of sin and death. That's the one you're made free from all the other perfect law of God is uh fulfilled in us all the lot we're not free from it. We're only liberated as it is fulfilled in us.

That's how we're liberated. What a tremendous thing for us to see. And another thing we've got to understand in these days of rebellion or setting up of some sort of new charismatic standard whatever that may be we've got to realize that you and I are free to love.

We are free beloved to really fulfill scripture. My eye must not be on myself what I am now free to do. My eye must be on you. That I don't cause you to stumble. That I don't in any way offend or upset you in your spiritual life.

That's what I'm free to do. In other words I'm free to love you tremendously and put you above myself in every way just like the Lord Jesus did. And once you see this you will be greatly helped. You turn say to Matthew chapters five six and seven.

And you find the Lord Jesus taking up the points of the law. And instead of saying now you've got to do this then that he says what I want to really show you is the spirit and the heart from which this statement was made.

He doesn't say it this way. And then when you discover this he takes it out of the realm of action doing the sin into the spiritual condition that prevents you from doing the sin once you're in it. And the thought and the spirit and the intention in God's heart when he made the law.

Amen. Now the law was made for sinners. That's what Paul says. It was never made for the children of God. The children of God live by the higher principles of the life of God from which the law was given and written in the beginning.

And we have to function in this great life of the spirit. In the early church Paul gave great instructions concerning the place of women. He if we'll turn shall we into the general background of the truth from which this instruction comes.

We can find it in the basic letter concerning vital elemental church doctrine. He's leading up to his great revelation concerning the function of the gifts of the spirit in the 12th and the 14th chapters.

Headship in 1 Corinthians 11

Before he gets there he comes through the 11th chapter obviously. And in chapter 11 verse 1 he says. Be ye imitators of me even as i also am of Christ. Now i praise you brethren that you remember me in all things and keep the ordinances as i delivered them to you.

But i would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God. And so although he's giving spiritual instruction now he isn't saying that he's ordaining anything.

He says in verse 2 you keep the ordinances as i deliver them to you. But now he says that i want you to come onto a place of personal relationship now. And personal knowledge and personal understanding in this so much of the spiritual follows that which is natural hope.

You understand that that often in scripture the natural is an analogy or a type or a picture or parable of the spiritual. You understand that that's how the Lord taught so much. Take the vine for instance from the vine the Lord gave parabolic teachings.

What a natural thing a vine. It grows and it puts out branches it produces fruit and so on and so on and so on by a natural process. But the Lord took up this great figure of the vine and from it taught the most sublime spiritual truths.

Because the natural is an analogy of the spiritual all right. Is that clear to you. And here he turns us onto the natural. I want you to know. He says that the head of every man is Christ. I suppose we'd all agree with that.

And that the head of the woman is the man. Would we all agree with that. Would we all agree with that. And the head of Christ is God. We all agree with that. It's the middle one. Perhaps the ladies aren't sure about or the men i don't know.

The head of the woman is the man. That's a tremendous thing. It's this head body relationship that is the basis of the church that the Lord wants us to understand. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered dishonorous Christ that's his head.

Amen. Every woman that prayeth or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonorous her head. That's the man there it is. For that is even all one as if she was shaven. Oh and it was the most terrible thing um in the east for a woman to have her head shorn.

Everybody knew what that meant praise God. It meant that she'd been caught in harlotry. And it meant that she'd had her hair shaved off as a public example that she was a wicked adulterous woman. That's what it meant.

And that's what Paul said. If a woman prays or prophesies with her head uncovered she dishonors her head. Every woman that prayeth or prophesies i'm sorry. For if the woman be not covered let her also be shorn.

How many of you ladies would volunteer to have your hair cut off let her be shorn. What a tremendous thing. Or even shaven. Or let her be covered. If it's a shame for a woman to have her hair shorn or shaven let her be covered.

Amen. If a man indeed for a man indeed ought not to cover his head for as much as he is the image and glory of God. I'm sorry you ladies you are the image and glory of God not in your physical form. But listen the woman is the glory of the man for the man is not of the woman but the woman is of the man.

Neither was the man created for the woman but the woman for the man. For this cause because it has to do with God's great purposes in creation it has to do with a relationship that is still here whilst we're in the flesh.

For this cause ought the woman to have authority or a sign of authority on her head because of the angels. Now that's what God said. And what a tremendous thing it is beloved it that God should so speak.

Covering, Obedience, and Church Order

One of the things that amazes me is why ladies shouldn't want to conform to this. I don't know why they shouldn't. Um i would think if i was a woman i think it's a great privilege because what the privilege a woman has is to carry on her head the sign of the subjection of the church to Jesus Christ she is given the privilege of having it.

Now a man isn't. And if the Lord said to me now you ought to wear a hat i'd say all right. I'd wear one. Or i mean of course we call it a hat a cover. I don't care what you call it. I'd wear it instantly.

I'd count it all joy to do it. If it didn't suit my hairdo i'd have my hairdo altered. Um if it didn't fit in with my ideas i'd ask the Lord to forgive me. I'd jump at the opportunity of being the privileged one to bear on me the sign to everybody that we are a holy subject.

I think that's wonderful. When my wife saw it she never quibbled praise the name of the Lord. Now in marriages if women don't abide like this it's a sign that she's the boss. And the man is a weakling.

And if you really want to see the state of a church you want only to look at the women. The women reveal the state of the church because men like it so or are too weak to object to what their women are doing.

But the man is the head of the woman. You understand that the woman is only the man's body in this respect. And too often there's more body in display than head. And the Lord wants us to get this thing right.

He wants every dear one of us to come to the place where we see. This is working in our midst. Let's let's work on let's move on. Verse 13. Judge in yourselves is it come let that a woman pray unto God uncovered.

Or the word is missing here. Or doth not. Even nature itself teach you that if a man indeed have long hair it's a shame unto him. So we have shame in the church. Rebellion in the church. But if a woman have long hair it's a glory to her for her long hair actually is the greek word is given her for a covering.

But if a man seem to be contentious we have no such custom. Neither the churches of God none of the apostles would have allowed it and neither the real churches of God. Now this is what God wants us to understand about this beloved.

It's very loving. It's very simple. It's very straightforward. And obedience is a jewel. It's more highly to to be prized than a gift or great fluency of speech. Obedience. In fact the prophet Samuel said I will have obedience and not sacrifice.

That's what God wants. He wants obedience from us. All he wants us to do as he says in this matter and walk in his ways. I'm under authority. I didn't cover my head because that's dishonoring Christ. I wouldn't do it not for anybody.

When I meet in the church I don't want to dishonor Christ. And if a woman won't cover her she dishonors the man and Christ as well. She's doing damage in both worlds. She's dishonoring both. What a terrible thing.

It's usually that way. You know there's a few women but I was asked to talk about it. I didn't say I'm going to talk about that. I was. I nearly fell over when they asked me. Well you know figuratively speaking um it's it's it's so.

It's so glorious to move in the truth to do what God wants us to do. It should be the simple object of our existence. Hallelujah. We just want to honor the Lord. That's all. This is true. I've discovered this as a matter of fact.

Uh I used to hear this when I was quite a boy quite a young man before I had any sort of kind of position or I wasn't even born again. Way back I've discovered this. All you women can get your side afterwards and have a real go at me if you want.

I found that if a man's bad he's bad. But boy if you get a bad woman she's twice as worse as a man. But here she is. That's absolutely right. I found it like smoking. You find a man that smokes. It's bad.

But you find a woman that gets really hooked on tobacco and she can't stop. There's that in her nature which makes her go further all the time always. She can't help it. On the other hand now you ladies look up and smile.

This is why so many women get into the baptism of the spirit before men do. Because women go this way they can go further than the men. Man they're instinctive. They sort of know it's right. They feel it's right.

And they're in. And a man says oh I've got to think this after. I've got to have a strong feeling it's right. A woman doesn't bother about that. She knows it's right. She's in that's right. And then her husband's saying oh oh yeah.

What's happened here. My wife's baptised in the spirit. If she's wise she'll win him by not nagging at him. Most women lose their husbands by preaching at them. Men won't be preached at by their wives.

They feel it's wrong. They don't like women's ministry instinctively they don't. You see it's in the nature of the beast. A woman won't have. A man won't have his wife preaching at him. And most women have chucked their marriage nearly on the rocks and lost their husbands.

Or their husbands have stuck out 10 years longer than they would have done if only she'd loved him and kept her tongue quiet. If only there are very few women can do that. Of course if a man does it well he's 10 times worse than a woman because he's taken the opposite to what should be.

And when you go to the opposite of what you nature itself teaches you you're always worse. Always the lord open our eyes and hearts to understand and move in. We're on precious ground here beloved. And the lord loves us tremendously.

Now this has introduced a subject. This bible says that if a woman has her head covered she may prophesy and pray in the church. Now you see in a group that i will mention where women are never allowed to do anything in the church.

You see it's very subtle. All they do is say the gifts of the spirit aren't for today. And a woman's lost her ministry. She hasn't got any. Now just say the gifts of the spirit aren't for the day like prophecy.

And that. And what can a woman do now. Because she may pray and prophesy in the church says paul. And what a tremendous ministry that is beloved. Hey glory be to god. A tremendous ministry is the ministry of prayer and prophecy.

So therefore um it cannot mean that a woman must never open her mouth in the church. She may pray and she may prophesy. Indeed the people that used to sort of insist that a woman must never do anything in the church always gave all the women a hymn book as soon as they came in.

So they expected them to sing anyway. It seems a little bit off that don't you think. Yes. That's right. Does that seems a little bit off. You keep silent. Here's a hymn book. Doesn't fit in. Does it.

No. No. No. By such means we come to see what god has for us. But the woman must be covered for this reason that she's the glory of the man. And man's glory must not be seen in the church. Only god's glory there it is because she's the glory of the man.

Cover it. Amen. Sorry for you ladies. You're lovely. But you've got to be covered because you're my glory or some man's glory. And if all the men bring their glory to church let's have it covered. That's right.

Let's have it covered. Let it be there. But let it be covered. Amen. That's right. Let my body be covered. I'm the head. Let's have the body covered. Amen. Is that right. The body must be covered. It's the head.

We've come to worship. And you ladies are saying shouting it out loud. You're speaking more by the sign than you could do by any prophecy you make without the sign on your head. Keep first things first.

Keep basic things right. And we'll never never miss the mark. It's jesus that's got to be glorified in the church. Now beloved. I couldn't help being born a male. Sometimes i'm sorry for myself because i meet so many fine women.

I couldn't help that. But having been born a man and then being born again um i've just got to read this book and follow out what it says. That's what i've got to do. I want to do it. I think we all need to help one another on in this great line.

My wife comes to church to worship. She's covered. She tells everybody that i'm her head. She tells everybody that the glory of man must not be seen. She tells everybody that christ is the head of the church.

Look my husband's uncovered. His head isn't covered. It's just a matter of body to head to supreme head. Do you see that. Well if you see it from now on you have the responsibility and you must do it.

That's what it means. You're not allowed to shift. Say well this group believes in covering their head. So we'll do it. When i go to the other group they don't believe in it. So i won't do it. That's weakness and vacillation beyond words.

Uh that's the way the self-destruction. You've got to move on. Heart conviction and heart convictions must be framed on the book. They can't be formed on opinions. They've got to be formed on the book.

The book is the inspired word of god. And we must move on that hallelujah. Well well now let's move on. Shall we. We come over in the great scripture of truth. And we come to the 14th chapter. And it's the 14th chapter that we run up against this very difficult word.

Interpreting 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2

Verse 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also set the law. If they will learn anything let them ask their husbands at home.

For it's a shame for women to speak in the church. Say well now why in the world are we now. You possibly know people who carry that out absolutely literally. And the lot that they they they insist upon it stopping short of putting a gag in women's mouths here then in the 11th chapter you are told you dear sisters that you may pray and prophesy in the church.

In the 14th chapter it seems as though you've got to keep silence. It can only mean I'm persuaded in my own heart that as you know in the days of the early church uh women were an uneducated lot. I'm sorry to have to say so because some of you are so very brilliant and clever now and they weren't bothered about or they only had one function in life.

It was to grow up and become somebody's wife. That that was about their position. They never had bachelor girls in those days. Uh they never had bed sitters for females or anything like that. Um it it's it's absolutely right.

There were no jobs for women say marriage and motherhood. This then was their position. If they were single they stopped at home under the headship of their father. They were always under some headship or another father's or husband's and so uh in this position.

And it's still the same in the east today. You know um the women sat on one side of the building and the men sit on the other. I meet it out in these today when I go switch on your power it won't open.

I'm not an electrician but I move in this realm. I can give you a little advice. At times you noticed it was the women's script that was squeaky and so they often didn't understand what was being said.

And they used to chat amongst themselves say what's he mean. What's he saying. They do it today. Or they call across the church to their husband and say hey Bill what's he saying. Paul says now let them keep quiet.

It's a shame for this to go on. It's all wrong. They want to know anything. Let them ask their husbands when they get home if they want to function in the gifts of the spirit now that's different. They may pray and they may prophesy.

And they may minister in the body of Jesus Christ as God wants them to. It's fairly important then you ladies that you press right through to get a ministry gift. It's important that you do this hallelujah.

Eldership, Authority, and Cooperative Ministry

Now I meet people sometimes in fact I occasionally um run up against this same problem. It's everybody's headache at one turn or another. And they say for instance let me instance a case I was asked if I would talk with a man leader of a fellowship and his wife and one or two other brethren were there and they were all very concerned because this dear wife often felt in a meeting that she should get up and pray for someone you know go across the room put their hands on them and pray for them to be healed.

You see. And she said now what am I to do. Uh here I am. Um I'm under this. I'm under eldership. Oh eldership. You know some people have got this eldership bee in their bonnet. They really have. Oh it's a real bee in their bonnet.

You can't get away from this great talk on eldership with a big another big word that starts with capital s called submission and subjection. It's very subtle. You start off by teaching by talking about commitment.

Then you bring in submission and then you bring in subjection. You see. And then uh they're they're leading you on to tell you that you've got to do as you're told. It's very sort of subtle. It's an abuse of true scriptural life and ordination and procedure.

But anyway let's come back to this instance. And she said oh what am I to do. Her husband was the leader of the fellowship. He was there and she said I feel that God shows me that so and so over there has uh is in need of healing.

And I I know it. You see now my husband poor man he doesn't see this he doesn't know this. He hasn't got this particular discernment gift or whatever you want to call it. You see. And uh I want to speak before I'm through between uh function of gift and psychic ability.

I will talk about that before I'm through if I forget you remind me here's the problem. I said how would you have got over that one and how. There's no getting over it. Really. But how would you have answered that.

Well the answer is very simple. I I said to her if if God has given you this gift my dear you must use it. You mustn't let any man stop you who. But in our our church only the brethren pray. It's the eldest position.

You see it's the man's position here it is got this all blown up. Now they've really been blowing this up big like a balloon and you can prick it as easy as anything here it is like all balloons they can be pricked.

I said what you're to do my dear is if you have this you are to signify to an elder that you know this. And if I was the elder that you told you knew that there was somebody over there that had such and such a condition and that God had revealed to you that he wanted to heal you.

I would say to you come with me sister we will pray for this man together now. That's wise eldership that's using the gift that God has given not squatting on it because it happens to be in a female now here then is wisdom.

And here the church is built up and here the gifts are utilized. What no woman must do is what Paul said she must not do in Timothy. Let's turn to it. Shall we what a sweet church this wording church will be if it can function in the background of scripture and be a true new testament church.

I decided years ago that if God would enable me I would not rest until I was in a new testament church. That is why when God moved on us in the beginning we call our church the new covenant or new testament fellowship.

Because that was the aim of my heart and the and the ambition of what was in me all right now in one in one Timothy chapter two he says this that verse seven I am ordained a preacher or a herald and an apostle.

I speak the truth in Christ and lie not listen to the apostle the teacher and the apostle a teacher of the gentiles. That word is really nations in faith and verity. That means the English nation especially you peculiar Sussex people a teacher of the nations in faith and verity.

I will therefore that men pray everywhere lifting up holy hands without rotten doubting. Come on you. How many of you pray everywhere lifting up your hands. See I don't want these women put in their place.

If you're not prepared to get in yours. How many of you men pray everywhere lifting up your holy hands. How many of you lift up your hands when you pray. What do you say. Oh what if they're looking now the scripture says you are to lift up your hands in prayer.

Not this. Here's the commandment your apostle lift up your hands in prayer. Glory. Amen. That's what you're to do. And it says without wrath and without doubting or reasoning. Actually is the great word come out of your intellect.

You men you can't pray with that. You pray with your spirit. You can't reason your way into heaven. And you can't reason your way into somebody's problem. If you're praying for them come out of it. It's nonsense.