Romans 7:1-25 Part B — David Oliver

Yeah, I think you're talking about the law, 10 words. Commandment, every one of those 10 words. So I think it's interesting that he says the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Where am I going here? But sin, taking occasion by the commandment. That commandment, and it comes down further in verse 13, the commandment proves, each one of those commandments, and it proves the sinfulness of sin.

The Law Reveals Sin and the Need for Christ

Now the scribes and Pharisees were knowledgeable about the law. But I doubt if they found it to be to them unto death. Paul says, I did. But they were not at a state in their experience when they recognized that the law had put them to death.

Had they, they would have recognized their need for Christ. He could not be king apart from his redemptive work.

But anyway, I think that's good. So David, when it says then, the commandment which was ordained unto life, didn't the Lord tell the young man, this do and thou shalt live? So at least you'll agree, I'm sure, that whoever he's talking about here, they thought that's where life is.

But then they come to know it's death. It's not that there is any flaw in the law or that God had a negative intent in giving the law. But he was demonstrating that nothing but Christ could bring in righteousness.

And so that law, all that the Lord has said, we'll do and be obedient. They really meant it, I think. But it was impossible to attain. So the law was intended, this do and thou shalt live. That's a good help.

But he says now it took commandment, deceived me, and slew me. I think Paul, in his own converted days, was going through this. He was kicking against the goads. There were goads in his conscience. Yeah, I take it that this is one of the goads, yes.

Yeah, sure.

It has been pointed out, too, that if this is Paul, in his experience, he became exactly the opposite of this. Acts chapter 20, I've coveted no man's silver or gold. So the covetousness here, it became something that wasn't marked in his life, Acts 20.

That's good.

Verse 11 does point out to us, and we've got to see this, sin taking commandment. The problem with the law is not the law itself, but it is sin in me that takes what's good and twists it to its own ends and to its own destruction.

So we're looking at the fact that, number one, just to review where we have been, the law instructs, but because of the nature of sin, it incites to sin. And because of its condemnation, it injures, it brings a person to a sense of spiritual death, a recognition of the separation between him and God.

Isn't this what Satan did to Eve? Good, yeah. God said that, but it didn't really mean that. So sin, taking occasion by the commandment, brought death.

The Holiness and Goodness of God's Law

Okay, looking at Paul's explanation now, it's very important for him and for us to make sure that we understand that the problem with the law is not the law itself. Verse 10, he's telling us that the purpose of the law was to life.

The problem with the law, in verse 11, is sin in me, sin in him. But then in verse 13, no, verse 11, no, verse 12. I really mean it, 12 this time. Wherefore, the law is holy. The entirety of the law expresses the full righteous character of God.

But your question, Mary? And each one of those commandments is holy. It is right. It is beneficial. I think it's important for us to get what Moses says, or what God says through Moses, for your good always.

The law was given for your good. We need to instruct our children that righteousness is for their good. Righteousness is not a way to avoid the shame of others. Righteousness is not a way to avoid getting punished.

Righteousness is to be desired. It is good, it is beneficial. It will always be helpful to do what's right, no matter how great the cost is.

I have a question for you, brother. Just one? What good would it do me keeping the Sabbath? We should point out that's an exception, isn't it? Okay, but that was a commandment, and it was for the good.

For us today, I mean. No, but in terms of the commandment then, okay, there's two things I want to say about this then. In terms of the commandment then, it was good. And it still is good that God has ordained a time for rest, and actually a time for fellowship with him in the enjoyment of what he has accomplished.

But in terms of the present day, it's not a commandment that's repeated for us in the New Testament. That's what you were asking. I believe that, I believe it. You're not celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday?

Not today.

I understand there's over 600 commandments and precepts and so on. And some of them, at least many of them, are for the healthful benefit of the people. By keeping them, you'll live well. And so there was an effect on their daily lives by just keeping them in their sanitary habits and all that kind of thing.

But none of it could produce life. In the end, it just brought death. Sorry to interrupt. They also show the character of God, don't they? The commandment shows what kind of a God that God really is, and he hasn't changed.

Romans 3:23 and the Glory Revealed in the Law

Probably the statement in Romans 3 .23, all have sinned and come short of the law is what's meant. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So the glory of God, the unique righteousness of God was displayed in the law.

So we should not malign the law.

I've heard a brother the other day speaking about the foolish law or something. We shouldn't malign the law. It's us that are unable to keep the law through the weakness of the flesh.

That's Romans 8. That's most important for us to understand in the passage. But what he does say in verse 13 then about the law, the law that was itself essentially good became death to him. And why? It was showing the very character of sin.

It made sin in all its stark reality evident. And you cannot avoid the beauty of the way Paul says it. There's nothing worse than sin. So he says, the worst I can tell you about it is it made sin look like sin.

So it's indwelling sin. So it's hidden as it were, but that it might be manifest, that it might appear sin. It's shown the spotlight upon it. And then it produced sins, working death in me.

You have sin acknowledged, and then sin activated, and then sin slaying, and then sin appearing in its loathsomeness. Really, we maybe don't appreciate that ourselves, how loathsome sin really is. We're living in a very sinful world.

And your neighbors may be living in sin. And yet you think they're good neighbors. You forget sometimes that God calls it sin.

Indwelling Sin and the Change from Past to Present

Just to pick up on William's point, the inward sin is maybe one of the reasons why he picked or the Spirit of God directed the inward commandment.

So this is the root of sin. So without the commandment, I'm not aware of the root of sin. When the commandment comes, now this lust arises within me that wants to rebel against the commandment. And suddenly I find that's sin.

And only God can see that inward sin. Others can't see that. God sees that.

Now, there's a change in the tense that comes at verse 14. And to me, that is very instructive, okay? The tenses of the verbs before this from 7 down through 13 are past, past. This is what happened in the past.

But now he says, I have come to this conclusion, okay? And he talks about what is present. I am fleshy. This is not the same idea as carnal that Paul spoke to the Corinthians. You're carnal, you're not spiritual.

What he's saying is I live in the flesh and that flesh has a problem, okay? And that will be developed in the verses that follow. So I take it that we're talking about now conversion has come in and verse 14, we know the law is spiritual.

It comes from God. It deals with what is of God. But I am fleshly, fleshy. And therefore, there's something about what I am that is sold out to sin. It's just abandoned over to the harlotry of sin.

I know you've been keeping this in a Jewish context just to keep with what you've been at there. You're a good man, John. Yeah, sure. You don't take it that this is a hypothetical thing. Is this Christian experience?

It is not normal Christian experience. I've been working on this one for a few days, okay? It is not normal Christian experience. But it is necessary Christian experience in the sense that you can't get to chapter eight until you have recognized the truth of chapter seven.

So I think, sorry, go ahead.

If it's not Christian experience, could it be the experience of a Christian?

Yeah, I think maybe you've had that once or twice. I just happened to guess about that. Isn't it oftentimes the initial approach to living for God? I want to follow a rule. That was my experience. I remember in college days, I was saved a couple of years, and I resolved that I was gonna produce the fruit of the Spirit, but one day at a time.

So the first day, I worked on love. And I got through the day. The second day, I worked on peace, and that didn't work too well. The third day, I was behind a fellow on the way to school, and I was late, and he was going so slow, and all my joy was gone, and I abandoned it from there on.

I couldn't do it. But it was because I was trying to produce it. I missed that, you were what?

Trying to produce it. No, before that, you're... I was late for work. Yeah, you know what that means, but I'll explain.

The Christian Experience of Romans 7

There's one thing we know that is speaking about a believer. For a non-saved person couldn't delight in the law of God after the inward man.

I think that that's one thing, and also the fact that there's a dualism that he brings in. It's not I, but sin.

I wondered, and I've never heard anybody say this, so it's maybe all wrong, but if it happened to be his experience, didn't God take him to Arabia, and he spoke about the Mount Sinai, which is in Arabia, is it possible that God took him to where the law was given so that he could sort these things out in his mind?

Because I never heard such a thing. That's terrible.

Brother David. No, no, that may very well be true.

Would you say, Brother David, from verse 14 on, I don't think it's, I know some may disagree, but I don't think we're looking at something that's hypothetical here. I'm looking at something that could be Christian experience, okay?

But let me say that from verse 14, he is describing what a Christian would be like.

Without the indwelling spirit of God. Without chapter eight, this is the only place to live, and that's a terrible place to live. Let me just point out the structure here because that'll help us in moving through, okay?

You actually have almost an identical repetition, the cycle that's here, okay? So you'll notice at the beginning of verse 14, he says, I am carnal, sold under sin. Now, the cycle runs verses 14 to 17, and then he goes back, and verse 18, he starts, for I know, so it starts with, for we know, verse 14, for I know, verse 18, that in me, that is in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing.

You have this same sense now of the condition of every believer with the flesh in him, okay? So you have the condition. Then you have the combat. When he says, and I'm borrowing this from Stott, John R. W. Stott, when he says in verse 15, that which I do, I don't mean to do, I don't, what I would do, I don't do.

What I hate, I do. And now, if you go down to verse 15, you have, oh, no, not 15, 19, the end of verse 18, to will is present with me, but to perform I find not. The good that I would, I do not, verse 19, the evil that I would not, that I do.

So you have this repetition of the conflict that we, hey, listen, come on, let's not pretend anything. All of us know this, to some degree or other. Yes, it is probably the default position for a young Christian, okay?

But some of us go back to that too frequently, and we have to relearn the truth of what we're dealing with here. But that's the combat or the conflict. And then, at the conclusion of that, he says almost the same thing.

At the end of verse, where are we here? Get everybody confused. Verse 17, now then, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. And come down to what he says in verse 20. It is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So you see, there is a cycle that he's going through here. There's a similarity. I want to point out what the difference is, but for the moment, we can work on the similarities.

The Contrast Between Romans 6, Romans 7, and Romans 8

So in chapter six, we were told that sin has no more dominion over us. But now in chapter seven, we have a situation where sin appears to be in dominion, because he cannot do what he wants to do because of sin.

What's happening?

He hasn't yet got into chapter eight. I know. But the point is, let me just, and we talked about this in private, but what you have in chapter six is the mechanics all set up. The machinery is all there, and it's right machinery.

And when it works, it's effective to produce righteousness. But the problem is it's sitting there all made. And as long as it's not operating, I'm in chapter seven. Until the spirit of God causes it to operate, then there's righteousness.

So that to me is helpful. It's the mechanics, it's all right. And that's what is intended, but it can only be accomplished in chapter eight. Chapter seven is the valley in between. So in chapter seven,.

We've got the utter futility of the flesh under any circumstances, and it will never do anything for God, and it will never please you until we come to chapter eight and enjoy the power of the spirit of God.

This man has the spirit of God here, but he's not living according to that law. It's not mentioned here. It's not mentioned, but he's in Eunice of Spirit, verse number six, and he speaks about the inward man here further down, so he has to have the spirit.

So he's a man that is regenerated, but he's not living in the energy of the spirit of God. So his approach to living is trying to keep the law, and he finds this frustrating.

The Flesh, the Inward Man, and the Believer's Conflict

What's the significance, David, of separating himself from sin? Like sin's an invader, isn't it? It's not really, doesn't have a right to be here. So he's not saying, I do this, but sin that dwelleth in me.

But the flesh that is native to me is really what we're talking about. And so in that sense, in my unconverted days, all I was was flesh. Not physical flesh, but with this physical flesh, there came the moral principle of the flesh that is in rebellion against God.

And when I became converted, I became now not only with that moral principle within me, but there is now another principle that works. We'll get to that in a moment. But the fact is, he's not saying, like a person with mental illness, that the person that did that is not me.

What he's saying is, I am now a person that is comprised of this dualism. There is something different in me than was just what characterized me in unconverted days. All I had in unconverted days was the flesh.

He has a certain discernment here. He recognizes, verse 14, the law is spiritual. In fact, in verse 22, he can delight in the law of God after the inward man. He has got something within him that resonates with that law.

It's spiritual life. But how to perform that which is good, he finds not in this chapter. Yeah, actually, that will point out the difference in these two cycles. Let me just look at verse 16 with you.

He says, I consent unto the law that it is good. He doesn't say that in the second coupling, but he says it in the first coupling. But what he says in the second coupling is now down in verse 18. So the two cycles are the same, except for this.

Number one, I agree with the law that it's good. But then, in verse... Ah, where is it? It's still in the Bible. I don't have the capacity is what he says. Where is it? Verse 18. Verse 19, for the good I agree with you.

Yeah, I know. To perform. For to will is present with me, but how to perform. That's the difference, how to perform. I have an agreement with God, but I don't have the ability to do it. I have this consent to what is right, but I don't have the capacity to produce it.

Isn't it one of the questions that we've all struggled with? Am I just a hopeless hypocrite? Or am I actually genuine in hating the things that I do?

The Inward Man and the First Glimmer of Hope

And I think, if you'll let me just go right into the next verse then, because that's where we're going. What he says at verse 21, this is the last section that will be the desires consistent with the law, exactly what you're saying.

There is this delight within me. I delight in the law of God. Verse 22. Actually, let me just point out the beginning of verse 21. I find then, I think that's important. He's given us experience, and I have learned from that experience.

This is what I found. I've come to a conclusion that no matter what my intention is, lying right there ready to just intrude is sin. And it's true with you. It's so present with us that it's inseparable from us at the moment.

Is Paul amplifying this in Galatians with the flesh and the spirit? He's not using the word sin, he's using the word flesh. But really, that's what he's telling us here, that sin is using the flesh. And so there's a conflict in our lives 24 -7.

And it's either the flesh is in control or the spirit is in control.

We like to think we're in between, but I really don't think so. It probably is characteristic of a Christian that the spirit of God is in control. That is normal Christianity, if you want to know what's normal.

But we all have to recognize that there is a very active flesh within us.

Yeah, what I see in here is the first glimmer of hope. Yes. Despite it seeming like despair, is the first glimmer of the hope of deliverance in distinguishing between I myself as a believer in Christ, as someone united to the Lord Jesus, that's my true identity.

And God always deals with us according to our true identity. And there's the recognition that what is working within me that is evil is now a foreign intruder, even though it is resident within me. And just as a medical analogy would help, our bodies do not overcome disease unless it recognizes it as an enemy.

And so that's what this is recognizing. It's no longer I, but sin that dwells within me. Then there is the readiness to go to war with the Spirit of God helping.

Well, one day, and I'm way into chapter eight now, but just to say this, one day I will be complete without the flesh. I will be complete in what God intends me to be. So I think that's your glimmer of hope that's developing here.

Yeah.

Sorry. No, it's fine. But I also, sorry, I also think that this is actually leading to a recognition of the character of sin again. And just as it was in the Garden of Eden, it always goes to the lower element to overthrow the higher element.

And that's the subversion of sin that we were meant to be in connection with God and what God is in His moral principles, controlling our spirits, controlling our souls, our bodies. Sin, through sin, that connection was cut, alienated from.

And sin is the subversion of, and that's why the most typical characteristic of sin is sensuality, is the flesh dominating the emotions, the mind, spirit. And I include the physical brain in the body and the flesh in that sense of that sin operating by ourselves, we're overwhelmed by it.

And that's why we have to look out, you might say, from ourselves to another as we get to the end of the chapter.

The Four Conflicting Principles in Romans 7

In verse 22, the law of God, do you restrict that to the Mosaic law here or do you take it wider?

I did think of it as reflective of the law, the Mosaic law from a standpoint. I don't think you can have a fuller expression of righteousness than is there. Okay, so I had thought that, what he is saying, I delight in what God has said to be right.

Okay, so you have the consequent findings of all his experience comes in verse 21. Verse 22 and verse 23, give us now the competing forces that are at work. He delights in the law of God after the inner man, inward man, but, so you have four laws that are here.

The law of God, but there's a conflicting law, the law of sin, and that law of sin is in my members. It's the law of my members. And there's the law of my mind. So there are four principles that are at work.

There is what I recognize to be right. There's what I know to be wrong. Those are two. There is what I would produce from my members, the law of my members. There is what would be produced by the inward man.

What is the inward man? Well, it's not the outward man. Okay, all right, okay. Unregenerate people have got an outward man, but what is the inward man here?

Would it not be the regenerate man under the control of the spirit?

It is the renewed man. I don't think so, necessarily.

It's the renewed man, the inner life of the spiritual.

The outward man perisheth, but the inward man is renewed day by day. Who's that? Yes, he's gotta be renewed.

He's the inward man, but he has to be renewed in order to produce righteousness, live right. We recognize that an unregenerate person, an unbeliever, has an inward and an outward. That is in terms of what's visible and what's not visible, the spirit soul versus the body.

But what we're talking about here is now that inward having been given life quickened in its relationship with God. Right, but not energy per se. He doesn't have, while he has the ability to live, he doesn't have that ability of himself.

Right, and that's why you're questioning whether it's under the control of the spirit. That's the point. You don't get him under the control until the next chapter. So there's the inward man here. Somebody wanted to use the word hypothetical, but I don't think that's necessary to go that far.

I guess, excuse me, my thought is this, is that when he speaks of the good that he would do, has to be the spirit energizing that new man, if you want to call it, the inner man within that is regenerate, the regenerate man under the power, the control of the direction of the spirit.

Right, but he doesn't get there in chapter seven. So he has the capacity with the new birth, but he doesn't have the energy yet until he's living in the energy of the spirit in chapter eight. If the spirit of God has regenerated, given life within, okay?

With that life come desires. Yeah. Desires. Okay, and that's what we're looking at here. Those are spirit-wrought desires. He says, I would. Yes, so it's spirit-wrought desires in the inner man. He's alive to God, but what we are looking for to resolve this whole problem, we've got to get to the end of the chapter here yet.

We've got a few minutes, we've got to get there. There is a power that will produce what he longs for.

Deliverance Through Jesus Christ and the Hope of Resurrection

So this is not normal Christian experience. As I said already, it's not Christian experience. It's experience of a Christian. For when we are regenerated, we are indwelt by the spirit of God and have all the availability of the power of the spirit of God at that moment.

Whether we realize it or not, it's a different story. And here is one who has never learned that and has been subject to the claims of the flesh and experiencing an awful sense because of it. But it's not a normal Christian experience.

Right, he's got the spiritual desires here in chapter seven, but he hasn't yet got the spiritual ability till you get into chapter eight and the energy of the spirit of God comes into play. Well, I think we can resolve that by just coming to what he says.

Who shall deliver me from the body of his death? I'm a miserable creature. I'm a wretched man, poor and blind and miserable and wretched and just to be despised as far as the latest scenes are concerned.

Same thing Paul says. When I look at what I am with this flesh within me, I am one wretched creature. I have desires to soar like the eagles and I end up living with the pigs. Sorry.

Well, of course, when the person's saved, they have all these things, don't they? They have the law of the mind. They've been dwelt by the spirit. They have everything. Oh, okay, sorry. You know, all the good things, but they just haven't come to that in their own experience.

So the person is dwelt by the spirit, but that's not the point here.

It's like what you're saying is when a person is saved, it's like somebody has got a new car. It is. Right? But the car's not going anywhere until you get to chapter eight.

You're really holding up for chapter eight being something special. He sure is. And you're having a struggle? No, we all agree with you. No, I'll tell you why I'm saying that, Dave. I have read where some say this person was quickened, but not in dwelt and stuff like that.

Oh, no, no, no, no. See, we have all this, but we haven't come to the realization of it. It's all at our disposal here.

Even for believers in the Old Testament, just for a moment, even for believers in the Old Testament, this part in chapter seven, is still applicable for a believer in the Old Testament. He was quickened with spiritual life.

Now, he could not produce spirituality apart from the Spirit of God. The difference between him and us is the Spirit of God indwells us, but the Spirit of God enabled believers in the Old Testament. There can be no righteousness of life apart from the operation of the Spirit of God with a regenerated person.

So, just to come back to it, the inward man is my new spiritual life in Christ. Okay, that's good, John. Yeah. Can you explain where the free will comes into play right there?

I haven't got the connection. Well, I think that's an important point because, well, it's the idea of the free will. In that, in the ministry of the Spirit of God, there has to be a willing cooperation of myself with the Spirit of God to experience the blessing of His power.

And what you have here is someone trying to achieve holiness and trying to keep himself from doing wrong through the law.

The most important word of Christian living is yield. Yes. And that's the problem. His will has not yielded to the Spirit of God. His will says, let me do it like a little child. Let me do it myself. Christianity depends on my yielding to the Spirit of God.

Could you say, in a sense,.

It's as if the Spirit of God, in all His gracious power, is just waiting to move in, but this person has to stop struggling on his own? Good. Instead of trying to escape on his own, he has to call out help.

And here's the help cry. Oh, wretched man that I am. Right? And that is true for all of us. And I think, I hope, we've all recognized it, and then we kind of change our mind and start all over again. But it's true, my beloved brother.

You know, you're all looking pretty good today. You're all dressed up in your Sunday best, and you're all fine Christians.

Wretched men. This is what happened when I got saved. I came to a point in my life where I set self completely 100 aside. Oh, wretched man that I am. Who can deliver me from this bondage of sin? And I found it was only in Christ.

So what happened after that to bring about this state of no longer dependent on Christ? And I get into this state here in chapter seven.

I think it's sin working in you.

But I'm just born again. I've just confessed, recognized my absolute sinnership, my hopelessness, and I trust Christ as my Savior. I'm enveloped by the Spirit of God. And before I go another step, suddenly I'm overcome with this spiritual condition of my total inability to do what I want to do and still doing what I do not want to do.

I thought every Christian does have a honeymoon period. But before long, the honeymoon ends, and suddenly I realize, wait a minute, I do still have all the capacities I had. In that sense, it seems to me to be the usual experience of a Christian, to find that to some degree.

Verse 24, you want to comment on that, the body of this death?

Okay, yeah, thank you, Murray. Again, I think that this, to me, this is significant within the context of the whole. I have a body that is still subject to the physical condemnation that Adam brought in.

It's a body that's subject to death. And as long as I am living in this body subject to death, there is a flesh that comes with this body. And that moral principle is the problem. Who's gonna deliver me from this flesh that is within me that I have in a body that's subject to death?

See, that's great. I thank God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. There is a deliverance. There is a deliverance now that is partial, but chapter eight cannot end. In fact, it recycles through a reminder of what will be at the rapture.

And therefore, what is before us here, I thank God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. The only solution is eventually that we will be brought into bodies that are never to be subject to death. And in those bodies, there will be no more flesh.

Thank God, hallelujah. And he says, who shall deliver me? Long as I have a body subject to death, it's a reminder of the flesh within that comes from Adam. But thank God there is a deliverance. And the spirit of God will give us that deliverance in anticipation now, but will finally affect that deliverance at the rapture.

Legalism, Amish Culture, and Deliverance from Sin

David. Okay, one at a time. Two at a time. You were in Western Virginia. Not West Virginia. Please make sure the folks know it's not West Virginia. And when you were there, you met a lot of people that I see in this chapter trying to live what's impossible in the legalism of their system.

Yeah, it probably, now, is it okay if I just come up and blatantly tell you that he's talking about people that are Amish, okay? And probably the most of those people are not regenerate. But there is a tendency for those that come from that.

I've talked to John about this too. There's a tendency for those that have got the mentality of that to revert to that again and again and again. It's a great learning experience to find out deliverance from sin is not in the power of the system or any outward constraint.