Run From Joyce Meyer

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But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

Opening Banter and the Joyce Meyer Investigation

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. I have with me the most masculine preacher on TV. Thank you. Thank you. Steve, what's new in your life? Do you have anything going on with another grandkid?

You're up to, what, 19 grandkids?

Yeah, it'll be 19 here in a couple weeks, yeah, 19, or five, one or the other.

Still, I was thinking about you the other day, and of course, I know you love your grandkids and I know I'm going to love my grandkids, but I've got a long way to go compared to you. You could have 19 by the time I have one.

Well, I'm just thinking about that. If I have 19, boy, my kids are going to have to really stay busy, so I don't really think if I looked at them and go, can we get to 19, I think they'd probably both look at me like I was crazy.

Christianity Today, January 2004. While Meijer, Joyce Meijer's previous salary is unknown, a recent series of investigative articles in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch revealed Meijer's ministry purchased for Joyce and Dave.

I think it's in that order, by the way.

Now, wait a minute, though. Are you going to say you have a problem with a pastor's salary? Well, she's not a pastor. In light of the last show?

People have already forgotten about that show. Purchased for Joyce and Dave a $2 million home, a $10 million private jet, and houses worth another $2 million for the couple's children, who also work for the ministry.

The articles also outlined Meijer's recent personal purchases, including a $500 ,000 vacation home. Meijer, 60, so that means she's now 70, lives in Fenton, Missouri, near St. Louis. And so that's the lead-in that Matt Slick writes in an older article about Joyce Meijer.

And we want to talk about some of her teaching today, because she is influential. Yes, she is.

How often do you watch her? Not very often. I saw just a few snippets of her, I don't know, probably a month or so ago. I don't, you know, I don't really, I'll just call it this way. I don't really troll TBN and those stations very often anymore.

When I was younger, I used to really, you know, I'd just get fired up, it was better than coffee for me. But I have less of a desire to listen to that swill.

Steve, for years, when I would drive to Bethlehem Bible Church, or Baptist Church in the day, one service, and the service was at, I think, what time was it, 10 .30? That seems right. Maybe 9 to 10, and then—.

Yeah, Sunday school is at 9 o 'clock. So I would drive in at 8 .30, and there was some liberal Episcopalian service on at 8 to 9, and then I would catch some of the preaching. And Steve, I can't tell you how many times I drove up into the parking lot and thought, Lord, a lot of people are more gifted than I am, a lot of people study more, a lot of people are more godly than I am.

But if you'll let me preach your word, these people obviously won't, I will. So help me to preach today. Help me preach like a champion. So we want to say at the outset that if you listen to Joyce Meyer, because you are like Steve trolling the TBN, and you want to just do the spot of heresy, and you get all your kids and you say the first person that hears heresy out of her mouth gets a dollar, you know, that's always fun.

Benny Hinn, you have to pay a lot of money. Yeah, we have. Right, because you just, you better get the wad of ones out.

You'll be throwing money around like there's no tomorrow.

Except the problem with those shows, at least the Expect a Miracle shows with Benny back in the day, they didn't have his preaching, they just highlighted the miracles. And so they didn't show the 90 minutes of, or 45 minutes of singing with your head back trying to get ready for the small s spirit.

Oh, let's give the Lord a big hand.

Did you watch his deal in Kiev a while ago? No. That James White posted? He's kind of ornery, and they weren't doing stuff the way he wanted to do it. And so he was ornery with the Kievites.

You know, fruit of the spirit is ornery.

And so with Joyce Meyer, we want you to not watch her if you think she's a good Bible teacher. There's a reason why she's not on WV &E, because she's not by her own statement someone that would be within the evangelical camp of Christianity.

And so we want you to be warned of this person. It is good for you to be a Berean. What would you say about that, Steve?

What about discernment? Well, it's good to examine everything that's taught by the word of God. And, you know, when you compare the teachings of Joyce Meyer to the Bible, you're going to find out that she's not just lacking a little bit.

She's a she's a heretic.

Joyce Meyer Denies the Eternal Sonship of Christ

Before we give you some exact quotes, Steve, what if you heard from someone, though, and they said, yes, but Steve, she's helped me. And the argument would be she's helped me think about God rightly. Therefore, she must be good.

It's a experiential thing. But she has helped.

Well, and here's what I would say. I would say if you listen to her long enough, you will abandon the Bible because she has. So you will, too. And so if she helped you in some small way, well, then that would be like, you know, a little arsenic might be good for you, but too much will kill you.

So stop it. Just stop it. Stop before it gets bad.

If you want to email us or pull up the website of this article, you can. I'm not going to give you all the quotes and pages and all that stuff. I'm just going to give you quotes from Joyce Meyer and then you tell me, audience, what you think.

And Steve will also do the same. He could have helped himself up until the point where he said, I commend my spirit into your hands, talking about Jesus. At that point, he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore.

He had become sin. He was no longer the son of God. And so tell me what if someone says that Jesus stopped being the son of God, would that be somebody who you should probably listen to talk about temper and submitting to their.

Husbands? That is, it's rank heresy. Jesus has always eternally been the son of God. He never stopped being the son of God. This idea that he became sin is true and biblical, right? He became sin on our behalf.

What does that mean? It doesn't mean that he stopped being the son of God. It means that all of our sin was placed on him. He became guilty of it. He became the, in a sense, the embodiment of sin, that sin might be put to death, that sin might be put an end to, that we might receive Christ's righteousness.

That's the great transference. Our sin placed on Christ, his righteousness placed on those who believe in him. But this idea that he stopped being the son of God is just false.

That's biblically false. Steve, when we teach other students the Bible and we are discussing the kenosis passage, the emptying passage of Philippians chapter 2, where it talks about having a mind like Christ, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of man, being found in human form.

He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. And then God highly exalts him. When we walk through that, we always have to tell students, now, whatever you do with that passage, Jesus has to still remain God all the time.

I mean, in your mind and as you teach it. Of course, he is always God, eternal son of God means, last time I checked, eternal son of.

God. Whichever direction you want to go.

Yeah, unless it's unless it's a soul sleep kind of eternal son of God. Right. So you just have to guard that Jesus doesn't say, well, you know what? I'm no longer going to be omniscient. It's rather that he lays aside his privilege of omniscience, those kind of things.

So you have to guard whatever you do with it. The way you subtract is by addition. He subtracts by adding humanity, but he doesn't subtract his deity in any way, shape or form. Jesus is always God. He wasn't always man, but he added humanity at in Bethlehem.

And then he still has humanity in heaven now. So she she obviously hasn't been to one of the men's discipleship groups here at BBC. No, she is not.

You know, he's the creator. And I think what I'm looking for is in Hebrews, but in any event, he what what does he do? He yeah, Hebrews 1 3. He upholds the universe by the word of his power. Now, suppose that we take Joyce Meyer at her at face value here that he stopped being the son of God.

Well, who is upholding the universe when Jesus stopped being the son of God? And where would we find that verse? Where was the, you know, inner Trinitarian handoff?

You know, maybe it was a Hail Mary. Maybe it's a Statue of Liberty. It was a fake handoff. You know what it was, Steve? My action passed. Only you will appreciate this in a handful of callers, maybe John in Idaho.

It was the fumble ruski. The greatest fake in the history of whatever you do, learn from the bad example of Joyce Myers. And that is Jesus was always God. He's eternal son of God. So he never quit being God.

Contrary. This is not Joyce Meyer saying, well, I'm a woman preaching to men and we're it's an egalitarian in-house debate. Now, this is the the deity of Christ Jesus. All right. Next, Joyce Meyer said the minute that blood sacrifice was accepted, Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again.

So Jesus, to quote her elsewhere, Jesus is born again in hell, basically. And so did Jesus have to be born again? Was Jesus, was he the first first born again Christian?

This is so terrible. I mean, on so many levels, you know, the I guess the Joyce Meyer paraphrase of John 3 would be he said to Nicodemus, we must be born again.

Right. So why did Nicodemus need to be born again? Because even his teaching position can't earn himself heaven because Nicodemus had Adam sin imputed to him. Consequently, he was a sinner. Nicodemus needed to be changed from the inside out.

So does Jesus need to be changed? Could he get better? Was he depraved? Was he sinful?

Was he corrupt? Was he immoral? It's just it is so backwards. I mean, this is. I think this pretty much treats Jesus as if he was anybody else. And that's just not that's just not proper at all. That's heresy.

There's a reason why Paul said to Titus on Crete, he said, you know what? There are some people's mouths that need to be shut. You need to muzzle them and gag them. I don't mean physically. But this way, even on the radio, to put a sock in it because you're speaking blasphemously about Jesus, the eternal son.

And there's something to be said for men who stand up. And of course, ladies can, too. This is not right. This is wrong. This is not a slip of the tongue. This is not some minor point. This is a major deal.

Jesus needed to be born again. That's blasphemy.

Yeah, I mean, when Peter says, you know, that God has caused us to be born again, he's writing to people of like faith, etc. So there is no place in the Bible that would suggest that Jesus needed to be born again or that he was born again.

This is just made up of whole cloth and bad doctrine. And it's horrific.

Joyce Meyer’s False Teaching on the Atonement and Descent into Hell

We're talking about Joyce Meyer teaching today. And the next one is going to be interesting for Pastor Steve, because with his background of Mormonism, it will be the opposite error at a different place on the other side of a cross.

And here, Joyce Meyer says he became, speaking of Jesus, our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead. He was in the grave three days. So far, so good. That's right. Broken clock is right.

Several times a day. That's really good. So far, I'm with her. During that time, Jesus entered hell, where you and I deserve to go legally because of our sin. Now, if we want to argue the Apostles Creed, he descended into hell, 1 Peter chapter three.

But the next part is what really gets us. Because I know what she's going to do. Yeah. He paid the price there. No. So, Steve, Garden of Gethsemane, is that where Jesus paid the price?

No, you know, when he sweat the drops as of, you know, as like drops of blood, you know, whatever these, I mean, no, that is not where he paid the price. That was not the beginning of the atonement that had nothing to do with the atonement whatsoever.

You know, the crucifixion. And so on the other side of the cross, I guess in hell, he paid the price there. You know where she's going because she said it elsewhere. I don't have the exact quote. She, it was a ransom series of Satan.

So Satan's got to be paid.

And this is something, you know, that we see popularized in the writings of C .S. Lewis and others. It's just bad and nothing against C .S. Lewis. I love his books, but he's not a trained theologian. And, you know, I think his books reflect that this is a very bad, bad theology.

Satan was not paid anything. When we sin, we don't sin against Satan. We don't, you know, it's not like that is against God. Yeah. It's not like we get a credit card with Satan's name on it. And, you know, the payment has to go to Satan.

No, no, no. Against thee and thee only have I sinned. And David wasn't talking to Satan.

You were just alluding to Hebrews and Colossians. Colossians 1, having made peace through the blood of his cross. Colossians also goes on to say, having nailed it to the cross. 1 Peter 2, bore our sins in his body in Tartarus.

No, on the cross. I think we sing a song, don't we, Steve? At the cross, at the cross or something like that. I don't know how good the theology is there, but we know Joyce's theology. This isn't just a minor in-house debate.

This is aberrant, blasphemous, heretical, run, avoid. Don't let your friends listen.

Say something to them. Well, this is so common to the name it and claim it teachers, the Kenneth Copelands, all these kind of people, because ultimately what they do is they elevate Satan to a position he never occupies in the Bible.

And they do that because, you know, you need to defeat Satan. You need to keep him defeated and you need to bind him. And so they they have this whole false system of Satan.

But anyway, Joyce Meyer and most important decision you'll ever make. Second printing, by the way, page 36, Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place. Then, as God had promised on the third day, Jesus rose up from the dead.

The scene in the spirit realm went something like this. Oh, boy, this is going to be good. This is like fiction. OK, this is Joyce Meyer fiction because it's certainly not biblical. God rose up from his throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless son of God, let him go.

Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. Why didn't it fill Satan on earth? His grave, where they had buried him, was filled with light as the power of God filled his body.

He was resurrected from the dead, the first born again man.

Horrible. I mean, just not even good fiction.

This is just horrendous. If you were going to be bad, Dan Aykroyd for Bad Playhouse, what would you say, Steve?

Quite bad theology. Seriously, seriously bad, ultimately bad.

Friends, we're not talking about should you tithe or give an offering. We're not just talking about Revelation chapter 20. Is it a real thousand years or is it, you know, a long period of time? We're talking about the death of Jesus.

If you get everything else right, but you get the substitutionary death of Christ wrong and she doesn't get everything else right. But just for instance.

Yeah, I mean, if you listen to Joyce Meyer, if you believe what she believes, I have news for you. You're not a Christian. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to tell you that. But she is so off. You cannot even read what she says, listen to what she says and say, well, this woman could be a Christian.

No, she's not.

The Cross, Substitutionary Atonement, and the Wrath of God

See, Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer's ministries are both damning, but different ways. One dams with morality, the other dams with the wrong view of Jesus. And so these things need to be addressed. I remember, Steve, I walked in here 17 years ago and lots of ladies had Joyce Meyer books tucked away with their Bibles.

A lot of people. And she is popular today. If you mention Robert Shuler, not many people know him because he's long gone. But Joyce Meyer is still very popular and she's on a lot of shows. And when you've got Ravi Zacharias saying she's a great Bible teacher.

She's still in the news. Wait, who said that?

She is an aberrant, a teacher of aberrant theology. She is a teacher of heresy. She is a false teacher. I mean, I don't know how many different ways I could say it.

But Steve, that doesn't feel good. I wish you'd just go on to something more positive. She's leading the parade to hell. How's that for positive? See, at the essence of our discussion is that we love and value Christ's substitutionary death.

Think about the triune God. At Calvary, there was more than justice being meted out because you have holy love, justice, grace, compassion, all the attributes of God. You just look at the cross and you can see all of those.

And so when God is showing himself so marvelously at the cross and somebody else taints it or comes up and rubs excrement on it, it bothers me. It makes me mad when people defame and denigrate the work of Christ Jesus.

This is the glorious truth. Spurgeon said you want the most glorious truth in the Bible? Look at the cross and see substitutionary atonement. And for somebody to come across and sully it and then you say, well, you know, I don't like you saying things about that.

Well, how about you write that letter not to me, but to Joyce Meyer saying, quit talking unbiblically about my Savior and what he did on the cross. It only takes a child to realize it is finished. What's finished?

Atonement accomplished.

Well, and, you know, to just kind of put a little exclamation point on this, the ultimate problem with her teaching, other than she has the wrong view of Christ, the wrong view of substitution, everything else, is like I said, she elevates Satan so that our debts are owed to him.

Listen, salvation is from, is both from our sin, but it's also from what? The wrath of God. He's, if the offense is against him, the debt was due him and Christ paid that debt. And so this whole interlude with Satan is just wrong.

It's just fallacious. It really demotes God and makes him kind of, it just puts him in the wrong place.

And basically, Joyce is saying, if you don't believe her view of the atonement, you can't go to heaven. She quotes page 37, second printing, most important decision you'll ever make. Jesus's spirit went to hell because that is where we deserve to go.

There's no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth.

Oh, we believe to go or we belong. We deserve to go to hell. That is true. The rest of it, no.

Well, Steve, you know, these are all minor details. And I was listening to a set of tapes by one man, and he explained it like this, Joyce says, this gets the point across. He said, why do people have such a fit about calling God, calling his creation, his creation, his man, not his whole creation, but a man, little gods.

If he's God, what's he going to call them? But the God kind. I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it humankind. If it cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle kind. I mean, what is God supposed to call him?

Doesn't the Bible say we're created in his image?

Yes, but what is that? You know, it now would serve her better if she actually cared about these things to study what it means to be made in the image of God. And we would expect, you know, there to be some exegetical thoughts and everything going back to Genesis.

But she's not going to do that. Why? Because she doesn't really care. She already has the narrative and she's going to impose it on the scripture. What it means is that we have morality. We have a series of things that in which we resemble God, but we don't resemble him in that we're not infinite.

We're not holy. We're not omniscient. We're not. There are a number of attributes of God that we don't share, the incommunicable attributes we are. I mean, if we look around the world, we could see other animals and everything that have some things like us, some attributes that we have, but they wouldn't be anything like God in the sense that we are.

Yeah, but Steve, if you're not a sinner, you don't need Christ's substituent death. And so when she says she's not a sinner, she's not poor, she's not miserable, quote, I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell.

That is what I were. That is what I were. And if I still was, then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something, folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head. I wasn't a sinner anymore.

Well, that's remarkable. Wow, she's she's the perfect woman.

And then she goes on to sin by saying all these blasphemous things about Jesus and the.

Religious world says that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can't be righteous and a sinner at the same.

Time. Well, see, she's she's treading closely to a biblical truth where we're sinful. Yet God sees us as righteous. And you can look at Luther's Latin quote, if you like. But without the spirit of God, she can't figure it out.

And so she just makes these statements using language without proper biblical meaning. We are positionally righteous.

When God views us, he views us through the lens of Christ's death and his burial and resurrection, not via our sin. But the idea that we stop, therefore, being sinners, well, that's not really right. That's not right at all.

We are forgiven for sin's past, present and future, not just past, which is the logical implication of what she's saying.

If you don't have TBN, you can go to YouTube, type up some of these things and watch. I hope you don't watch very much. But here's what I would like you to say. Watch out if your friends wear Joyce Meyer T-shirts, read the books because you want to warn them.

This isn't good for you. This is strict nine. This is this is bad for you. It's not healthy.

And enough strict nine will kill you. And, you know, can I say that if you watch Joyce Meyer, you will not be saved? No, but I think you you bring into question your own salvation.

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