Is the Roman Catholic Church a Cult? Examining Doctrine, History, and Authority

The Charge That the Roman Catholic Church Is a Cult

Can you show me because we're gonna use some hermeneutics. Can you show me anywhere in the Old Testament where that word perpetual is not perpetual because again, I understand you're appealing again. Sure, you know I thought I was gonna get to have a talk here.

You asked a question. Hang on a second, sir.

Be quiet. Okay. Well, there you go. I will mute you because it's not your show. You asked a question I'm gonna give you the answer. Genesis 6 for the word Olam is used referring to those who were of old Deuteronomy, I'll get just rattle off all the ones where it's used not referring to perpetual Genesis 6 for Deuteronomy 32 7 Joshua 24 to 1st Samuel 27 8 Job 22 15 Psalm 247 24 9 25 6 41 13 77 990 verse 2 103 verse 17 106 verse 48 1952 143 third verse 3 Proverbs 8 23 Proverbs 22 28 Proverbs 23 10 and Ecclesiastes 110.

Should I go on for more?

Blah blah blah blah blah.

From striving for eternity ministries.

We are live apologetics live here to answer your most challenging questions that you have about God and the Bible. On this program we can answer any question that you do have about God in the Bible and.

To challenge us with that. All you have to do is go to apologetics live. Calm on here every Thursday night that we're here eight o 'clock Eastern Time. You can come join the discussion ask your most challenging question.

Just remember one thing I don't know is a perfectly good answer. This is a ministry of striving for eternity. The topic tonight is the Roman Catholic Church a cult. We're going to examine some of its doctrines its history its authority and.

This is something that started because I put a post out on On social media saying well declaring that it is a cult and a lot of people pushed back. Thinking no, it's not. How are you defining a cult? How could you say such a thing?

There's believers that are in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is Christian. All kinds of arguments and. Maybe the problem is that those who claim to be Protestant meaning they're protesting have forgotten what they're protesting the Protestants are protesting against well the Roman Catholic dish distortion of Christianity and.

That is a lot of what we're going to talk about tonight now drew and Tom cannot be here. So luckily I brought in the atheist nightmare here. Mr. Chuck Carpenter. So Chuck welcome.

Hey, thanks for having me on again. Not to my typical wheelhouse, but I'm excited to discuss the topic.

Protestant Symbolism, Orange Ties, and the Show’s Purpose

Yeah, and so we're glad to have you on and you're almost becoming a regular. But I have I have to ask a question now those listening on the podcast Will not see this unless of course they go to the striving fraternity YouTube channel and Check it out, but you're wearing an orange tie.

Why might that be sir?

Well Although I am an Astros fan and don't hate me for that I'm wearing orange tie tonight because orange is associated with Protestantism and So this is typically in the context of Northern Ireland and parts of Western Europe and this was primarily because of William of Orange King William the third of England Scotland and Ireland.

He was a Protestant Prince from the Netherlands. He became King of England in 1689 after what was called the Glorious Revolution Which overthrew the Catholic King James a second and his victory at the Battle of Boyne in 1690 Cemented the Protestant dominance in Ireland and there's also in Ireland is called the Orange Order.

Founded in 1795 the Orange Order is a Protestant fraternal organization that takes its name from William of Orange and it celebrates his legacy in defense Protestantism particularly in Ireland and Scotland and at our church when some of the Irish When some of the Catholic type holidays come up We will almost on that closest Sunday some of us will wear orange, you know, just sort of just sort of in fun, but So I like to wear it as a symbolic.

Representation so you don't wear the green because that represents the Catholic Church, huh? Traditionally, yes, so that so there you go. So a little bit of history there already so the you know, a lot of people were pushing back and so I Will say this for those who are watching I encourage you to share this out where wherever you are watching right now or on whatever social media you have with the hopes that someone who is Part of the Roman Catholic Church may pay attention.

Tune in maybe even come in for discussion. But at least hear the truth of from God's Word and that's what we want. Ultimately, I will let you know you may be watching us on some of the other things that we are also streaming on matter of theology so we're out there and the I think we may be on I don't know if we're on open-air theology, but Those are two ministries that are the that my co-hosts are part of so we stream on there as well.

So, let me let's start off and I'm gonna read right out of my own book and because I told some people on social media, they they asked how I define a.

A.

Occult and it was a little bit longer to be able to express The details of it in than in in writing on a Facebook post. So I I thought it'd be better to do here. So that I can express more what it is when I when I say a cult now.

Ultimately as we look at things a cult is gonna be a Group that is controlling. There's a definition that I not from my book, but I do like it is the it has the. The words bite, you know, and it's all about control.

So the first is behavioral control intellectual control. Forget what that T is. And then the third is the fourth is emotional control. But that it does cover the idea of it that a cult is something that is controlling.

That's ultimately the thing when it comes within religious cults I'm being more specific especially within the Christian cults that the first one that I list in my book What do they believe and you can get a copy of what do they believe at our website at striving fraternity org?

But the first one is what I would say is is scripture twisting I'm sure that and I'm gonna place an article up in a little bit. That is from Chuck's Church. Did you write it Chuck actually? Yeah, okay, that's what I had thought I looked at it last week but so it's an article Chuck had had written and and you'll see some of the scripture twisting that we'll talk about but Scripture twisting is it is I say is and the de facto assertion of extra biblical revelation.

That's the first mark of a cult. Scripture is often used with a disregard to context to justify an unbiblical or extra-biblical doctrines so we're gonna go through these things one at a time later, but I want you to see the number one thing that when I say some a speaking of a religious cult I'm gonna talk about scripture twisting.

They're going to recognize the Bible as God's Word. But they will do one of two things either they change the meaning of things. They'll they'll teach the opposite to what it does teach something. It doesn't twist those words to make it seem like it's saying something other than what it's clearly saying or.

What they often also will do is claim some extra biblical revelation whether it's the Book of Mormon. Whether it's the Watchtower. Whether it is the church magisterium or their traditions in Roman Catholicism.

Whether it's the Quran. Whether it's the Talmud. Whatever it is. They add some extra biblical doctrines extra biblical revelation. That is beyond what scripture is. To the scripture. Okay, so that's number one.

So when we see a religious cult a Christian cult, it's gonna start with with scripture twisting. Why does it start with that very simple? The cults start with this because of the fact that this is how they're gonna get the their authority to do everything else.

They're gonna do the second one is Authoritarianism so they need to twist the scripture because they use the scripture to claim an authority that they don't actually have. So under authoritarianism I say in the book.

What do they believe? Individual interpretation on subjects are not allowed only the cult leader or leaders can interpret and They are accountable to no one most of the time a person or organization becomes the authority on the proper interpretation of scriptures.

Some of these cults will state that only they can properly interpret the scripture and therefore they can twist it and explain the Explain that the average person cannot understand it without the cult.

Therefore if a person disagrees with the interpretation based on a normal reading of scripture. The cult can have an answer. That the individual cannot know on their own. Authoritarianism allows the cult the authority to twist the scriptures.

So with that I hope you see why twisting the scriptures is first it allows them to then Justify their twisting of scripture they will claim an authority and you'll see as we go through this with the Roman Catholic Church any one who's listening right now that is Knowledgeable on the Roman Catholic Church, you know.

That is a core doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church that you cannot have a private interpretation. In fact This was a major thing. Historically, that was the argument against Martin Luther. The Pope that was in the council that was convicting him Challenged him on this private interpretation and they warned that if people would be allowed to have a private interpretation you'd have many who would who'd interpret the Bible wrongly and then People would be led astray.

To which Martin Luther's argument was better to have the truth out there. Where error can also be than to deny the truth altogether. Because that's what he recognized the Catholic Church was doing and they were trying to silence the truth In their desire to have them as the only ones that could speak on how to interpret the Bible.

The number third number three the third thing that I have in the book is a clue exclusivity and This is the argument that only the organization has the truth and all others are excluded from it. What the they will do is say if you are outside of their camp You cannot go to heaven.

If you this is something you'll often see a reason why so many people when they are in a cult it is so difficult for them to stay outside of the cult a lot of times what happens is they will leave and Come back and there's a couple reasons for it.

One most cults will do love-bombing. They give you such an overwhelming thing of emotion that you feel you're missing something when you leave that's mostly because of the next thing we're going to talk about but The exclusivity of it is the idea that people have this feeling that if I leave the group I Can't be saved.

I can't be right with God and that is the controlling factor that keeps them within so you have the Authoritarians whether it's an individual or a group of individuals or the organization itself That says they have the right to interpret scripture.

So if you Don't agree with them then you're outside of truth. This leads to the fourth one that I alluded to which is isolationism and and this in this I say in the book What do they believe? Members of the organization are not to speak to Outsiders about doctrines unless to convert them.

The organization often states that it has the truth and wants to protect its members and This is where they will often do the love-bombing. Love-bombing is where they give an over emphasis of emotion and expressions of Love if what they would call it to where you have this emotional response to them a feeling of of community a feeling of Fellowship that and this is why So many that I have counseled and worked with that would leave a cult.

Many of them will try to return. I Know some that have left and returned up to three times Before finally leaving for good and they would return and every time they return it It makes it all the more harder to leave.

This isolationism can work in many different ways. One way It could be that they actually isolate you from the world. There are groups that They they live together in a commune and in that setting everyone works together.

Everybody Goes to church together their life is together. There's some groups that will they'll try to move into the same town so that everybody is There together your whole life is wrapped up with that group and that makes it very hard to leave again.

What's the goal of it control? Keeping people locked in so that the theologically you feel like you can't leave. Because if I leave I'm I'm leaving the truth if I If the isolation if I leave I have I'm leaving my friends and So, you know and let's not take, you know, think lightly on the issue of friendship.

The reality is is that You will see like they for example during kovat a lot of churches were shut down and When that when we saw that There were a lot of people that started going to good churches. Hmm.

Why? Well what you saw in that was that there were many people who knew the church that they were attending was bad.

But.

They wanted so badly to be to have that friendship That they continued to Be in a church they knew was bad. Now during kovat what happened?

Well.

The church shut down people were not there and they were able to go visit other churches and make other friends and Then change churches. So those those relationships that isolation. What it does is keep people in that group and.

And.

The idea of when someone is brainwashed as you don't want them to hear the truth. This is why if you ever try to take a gospel give a gospel tract or anything to a Jehovah Witness they will not take it and.

And they will argue. Well, you know, we're told we're not to. You know, we're they. I've heard actually heard different reasons and.

So.

The thing is is why don't they take it? Well, I always tell them the reason they don't take it is because they've been brainwashed and it is a control factor. And I will always quote for them 2nd Corinthians 13 8 Which says for we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.

Why do I quote that. Because if they actually had the truth they would be able to take whatever I give them compare it to what their church or group states and Know whether I'm telling something not true.

When someone has to tell you no, no, no, you can't read this. You can't you can't check this out. Because they're afraid you might learn something other than what they're teaching you that is a controlling and a cultic behavior.

The last one is endangerment. I Say in the book, what do they believe? Another trait that may include a mate that may include is Endangerment. It is true that most Colts teach teachings do not lead to either physical or emotional endangerment of its members.

This one trait may not be true for all Colts. So the idea here is that the endangerment is more clear when you have Colts that will use practices such as. You know, I know some groups that will make people they're not allowed to eat.

I knew of one Colt that what they would do as a punishment if you Questioned their through one of their three leaders. You might have to spend up to three days. Sometimes even a week in a chair. Tied to a chair in a barn with lights on all all day all night.

With music playing and and sometimes all you'd get is water. That's endangerment. That's something that you end up seeing. That now there's also an emotional danger then this is sometimes tied to the isolationism.

That people feel I can't leave. If I leave I lose everything. There are there is a. We've dealt with a Colt on this program and that we went into great detail of a church out in Iowa and We had a woman who came on with a pastor because she was not married.

The pastor actually argued that he was the father figure for her and Therefore when she was working Her paycheck had to be deposited into a bank account that he controlled for her and He would give her an allowance and one of the things that set her to realize this was problematic was when she ended up wanting to get a new sofa and the pastor told her that That wasn't a wise use of money.

He didn't think that she should use her money for a new sofa. He felt the sofa she had was fine and he would not give her her own money. For a sofa. Now what ended up happening was she realized in order to leave the church she had to lose her savings.

Because he's the one that had control of it. He also did other things. Emotionally by making people write down all their worst sins and in doing so he had them in a file so he could always bring them up and There were many people that were afraid to leave because the fear of blackmail of things.

They said they had done in the past that they didn't want people to know but is his style of repentance they had to bring these things out and write them down and Give them to him and he kept a file of them and he would remind them that he had that file.

These are the when we speak of The endangerment these are the emotional endangerments that that we're speaking of.

So.

Chuck you had mentioned when I couldn't remember what the tea was was thought control in the bite and I Need to look it up. I think you're right with that which makes me wonder What is the what the I was because then the I wasn't the because there there's definitely behavior.

There's the thinking. There's the emotion and so there was one other and I couldn't remember what that is but I will have to I used to I used to have it here on the desk in case I ever needed to remember it and as Folks if you could tell I've been packing up where we're gonna be selling the house so notice this week last week you guys saw that there was nothing on the bookshelves, but Well coffee, but now there's not even a bookshelf back there.

And as you could see that my desk is being broken down you I don't have the the big part on top of it, so Information control. Thank You sister Tara. She she had it so information control. That is the I and and so that goes the information control is part of as you look at those four things.

When you have behavior control That's gonna fit under that and the emotional control fits under isolationism and some of the exclusivity the authoritarianism a bit. Thought control definitely the authoritarianism that the twist scripture twisting.

You know the information or sorry the thought Information I mentioned those two kind of and then you know when you think of the emotion, you know, we mentioned that so. But ultimately that's that I wanted to take this time.

You can get a copy of my book. What do they believe you can see the more detail that I have for that? But I knew that I wasn't gonna bail easily to answer this. And go into the detail that I wanted to on a Facebook post.

Just because well social media being what it is if I try to go Short then it's hard to it's easier for people to start misrepresenting What you're you're trying to say so I didn't want to do that. And so I decided to do it here.

So.

Let me start. Now that we have that I would like Chuck you. I want you to talk a bit. Well first let you talk about anything that. You know anything any comments you had from what I said. And then after that we can get into the article that you wrote and I'll give the link for that.

Okay. Yeah, sure. So can real quickly concerning the Jehovah's Witnesses He's he is dead-on correct about the information control and they won't be able. They won't accept any literature from you. Although they that's their whole job is handing out literature to people, right?

Yeah, so they won't take it in. So that is definitely information control that they're under. I love the from living waters the million-dollar bill tracks I've given a few of those out to some Jehovah's Witnesses and they didn't know what they were getting and so and we're so we'll be discussing my Catholicism tract here in a moment.

But if you go to five solas dotnet slash evangelism, you'll see that I have two tracks there Concerning the Jehovah's Witnesses ones just for Jehovah's Witnesses and ones is Are you considering joining Jehovah's Witnesses and that is because the one for Jehovah's Witnesses all it has is Quotes from the New World Translation, which is their mistranslation of the Bible and and it also has quotes from Jehovah's Witness Resources its primary source Documentation from the Watchtower.

And so what you can do is you can pull this up and they should see it as non-threatening. You could even say, you know this it doesn't say anything Bad here about about Jehovah's Witnesses. Can you can we go through these points and you can confirm if what this says is true or not and so hopefully they will be open to Go through those points with you, but you need to look at the Are you considering Jehovah's Witnesses? Track so that when you get to point when you get to point number six you know what to say because point number six is not in the actual Jehovah's Witness track because it It does talk about how the Watchtower discredits itself as the you know, the one true Authority because they contradict themselves and but if you look through it and so that's how the the tracks work.

And so that's how that works for the Jehovah's Witnesses as well as the Roman Catholicism and so for the Catholicism tract and If you go to five solas net Slash Catholicism. And so you may have heard of what's called a syllogism argument.

Which you give two premises and then a conclusion and the conclusion follows from the premises. Well This is technically not a syllogism. It would be called a poly premise argument. So you've got five premises and then the sixth point is going to be your Your conclusion and just in a nutshell.

And you can so with your Roman Catholic Friends and family and neighbors, you know, so you can pull this up and again ask them, you know, is this true? You know, are these these facts right? So point number one is the Bible is the Word of God and I and so it gives it's going to give a Bible verse and then it's going to also give some quotes from Again from primary source documentation official Roman Catholic teaching.

Quite a bit of it from the catechism itself. So yeah, you know point number one is the Bible is the Word of God and they'll say yes. And then point number two is God does not contradict himself and they'll say yes and again, there's quotes from Roman Catholic sources as well as Bible quotes and if you click on a Bible quotes the Bible quotes are Hyperlinked if you click on click on the Bible quote, it actually goes to the Vatican VA and so it's it's It's actually goes to their New American Bible.

So the quotes in these tracks are from their primary sources Documentation just like the Jehovah's Witness track. All those Bible verses are from the New World Translation. So they should have a problem with it.

So yeah point number two is God does not Contradict himself and in number three is the leaving the living teaching office of the church also speaks for God. And so there's no Bible quotes for that, but there's Roman Catholic quotes From the catechism paragraph 85 88 888.

And then there's another quote. So so yeah, they will agree that the living teaching office of the church also Speaks for God and then point number four is going to be the leaving living teaching office of the church teaches faith plus works for salvation and there's a quite a few quotes from there and the last two quotes you see is from the Council of Trent sixth session and and this was This is where they they they laid the hammer down.

They said if you believe in Justification they didn't just say salvation which you know Salvation can be different from justification because salvation is a whole sort of a process if you will if you understand what the order of salutis is and Justification is a part of that order of salutis, but but they say yeah if you believe in justification By faith alone without works you're anathema you were to be cursed right?

And so this was the conflict Between the Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church and in point number five is the Bible teaches salvation by faith alone and it gives it quotes three Bible verses Ephesians 2 8 9 Romans 3 28 and Romans 3 20 and then Below that it says also reference and it gives a bunch more that clearly and unmistakably teach that Justification is by faith alone through Christ alone.

And so then so those are your five Premises and then the conclusion the final point is number six and here's the final point. It says if the Bible is the Word of God point number one and God does not contradict himself point number two.

Then the Roman Catholic Church, which claims to also speak for God point number three Discredits itself as the one true religion or the one true authoritative authority of religion because it contradicts the Word of God by teaching faith plus works for salvation.

Point number four when the Bible which came first clearly and unmistakably teaches faith alone for salvation. And then and then it goes into the biblical gospel that you can share with your friends. And I just want to End and in this in that is saying that you know, we're not here bashing Roman Catholics.

We love them and we want them to come to the truth. We we hate the Roman the Roman system. The Roman system is is really bad and it's leading them down the path of destruction.

Why Accurate Representation Matters When Critiquing Catholicism

Yeah, and this is important folks to what you heard Chuck say several times original source material. That that's what I did with my book. What do they believe and The advantage of doing that of quoting their sources is as Chuck said a it They should be able to Take it and read it.

You can I've had had Joe witnesses. I give him a copy of my book and the way I'll get them to read is say Please read this section on Jehovah Witnesses and tell me if anything in there is wrong. Tell me if there's any corrections needed.

I haven't had anyone tell me I need corrections yet, and that's why It becomes important to not misrepresent what a group believes. Because if you accurately represent what they believe and they recognize that Then they can trust that you've you're you understand their position right, if I if someone comes up to you and you're a believer in Christ and They tell you you believe in three gods.

You go yet you don't understand Christianity. Because Christianity doesn't teach there's three gods it teaches there's one God there's three persons father son and spirit, but one God and When they argue for three gods, are you gonna trust anything they else they tell you about how wrong Christianity is.

No, why? Because you know, they don't understand it and if we are not gonna take the time to understand what these different religions believe and we go and misrepresent them. Well, are they gonna believe what we say about their religion?

No. Now you say but I don't have time to study all these things fine. You talk to someone you ask them what they believe. Let them explain and Then you can just ask clarifying questions and you could do is as what you saw Chuck kind of do is he's he could do Conversationally, well, do you what do you believe about who who has got the authority to interpret Scripture?

You need the church. Oh. Well, if you need the church, but doesn't the Bible say it's the authority. Well, if I need the church then doesn't the church become greater authority than the Bible. So, how could they be equal in authority would like you're saying they are right you could do that with people very Conversationally, but take the time to understand what they believe.

That's why actually I wrote the book. What do they believe so that you could I spent 14 years of my life Reading it their documents and systematizing it so you don't have to but what do I do? I give you the the portions of theirs of what they call Scripture and I give you sometimes larger portions so that you can see that it's not out of context.

I try to do that. Why because I don't want any of us that are defending the true faith to be accused of taking someone else out of context.

So.

Let's get into a little bit of what Catholicism believes and I'm gonna kind of go through some of the things that are in my book what do they believe on the chapter 2 on Catholicism and Again, I'm just gonna ask folks if you don't if everyone would do me a favor right now and share this out.

Wherever you are watching or wherever you whatever social media you have the the hope is that we might be able to get someone who is part of the Roman Catholic Church to hear this and hear the distinction.

Now before we start saying how we disagree with the Roman Catholic Church There is something that Chuck alluded to that. We need to start with the Council of Trent Clearly stated that believing what we believe as Bible-believing Christians that we believe in justification by faith alone in Christ alone In by grace alone, right that it's not by works Vatican to sit or Trenta.

Sorry said that that was anathema. That's cursed you you can't according to Roman Catholic doctrine. You cannot be saved. You cannot be right with God.

And.

Believe in justification. Alone, but if by faith alone you need works.

So.

When I say I don't believe that someone that Believes understands and believes Roman Catholic doctrine that they cannot be saved. Understand. I'm saying that knowing that they say the same thing about me.

The difference is I don't get upset when they tell me I'm going to hell in their opinion because their church says this. That's being consistent with their doctrine. I Don't sit there and go. Oh, no, you're wrong.

You're wrong. How could you say such a thing? That's their belief. But they get upset when I say the same thing about them.

Strange.

But true.

So.

They would tell you that I could not go to heaven now. Catholic Church in recent years. John Paul II for most part has softened a lot of this he has Taken it on to To be where you know now Muslims can be saved and things like this.

But they've never Ratified what was stated in Vatican in the council in at that council, so at Trent. What you have is a declaration a document that states that we are damned to hell for what we believe.

They've never gone back and stated that there's an update a change to that in any way. To say that oh, well that was wrong. So if that's still in play then according to the Roman Catholic Church believing that Christ death and his death alone Just was satisfy sin Would be accursed.

This is Mormon. Islam would say that believing That Jesus is God is accursed. I don't get upset when they tell me I'm going to hell according to their beliefs and What can I do? I could take their beliefs compared to scriptures that they say they believe and see where they're wrong and so I Want to go through some of Catholicism.

So let's and I'm just trying to also I do want to look through the comments if anyone wants to join just go to Apologize live .com. Just scroll down to where you see the stream yard icon it's a duck click on that give permission for your browser to use your Microphone at least but mic and camera and then you can you could join.

I see you and I'll add you in. We'd like to have some discussions. Actually, it's always better to have discussions here than when we're just discussing it in chat, which You know happens a lot and I can't always see the chat when my co-hosts aren't here.

The Authority of Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium

Let let's let's start with what is the authority within the Roman Catholic Church. And so, let me see I am looking here, let me read this comment because I was seeing Keith that you're responding to this Johnny Rulon says I Would say to be honest that there is a bit of a misrepresentation on some Catholic positions here.

I Do appreciate the sentiment and understand them, but I think there are inaccuracies. And and so John if you wouldn't mind, I mean it'd be really good if you came in or Johnny I I'm guessing if you could come in and explain what those inaccuracies that you think are It it would be good to be helpful.

Let's see, he's and he's saying here Andrew had me on and if he wants me to come on to be happy to do so. Well, anyone can come on anytime. So You know, we don't. It's it's a show open to anyone. So, all right.

So let me go to my book on what they believe on the Roman Catholicism now the Roman Catholic Church. And and I'm saying Roman Catholicism or Roman Catholic Church and not Catholics. I'm making a clear distinction.

Just as you have many Bible believing Christians that don't understand Christianity. So you have many Muslims that don't understand Islam you have many Roman Catholics that do not understand Catholicism so I'm not speaking to the about the individual people I'm speaking of the Organization and its doctrine and that's why I use the word Roman Catholicism referring to the doctrine the Roman Catholic Church referring to the organization.

Now my source that I used because when you look at the Roman Catholic Church. It has a long history and tradition and all of the councils are authoritative. So That's part of the tradition. So it's a lot to research but because They could have you know things they've said in the past they could change.

So I.

Wanted to go with their latest Authoritative work which was the the 1995 Catechism for the Catholic Church. That's where all my quotations in my book come from. I don't know if I how many of the I'll use tonight, but What you see is they will hold to three three things as a equal in authority.

The first is tradition Second scripture and third is the church or what's called the magisterium.

Now.