July 18, 2025 Show with Scott Christensen on “Updates on the Aftermath of the Flood in Kerrville, Texas & How to Trust in God’s Sovereignty in the Midst of Misery”
1 view
July 18, 2025 Scott Christensen,Associate Pastor of Kerrville BibleChurch in Kerrville, TX, & authorof several books, including hislatest, “Defeating Evil: How GodGlorifies Himself in a Dark World”,who will address: “UPDATES on the AFTERMATH ofthe DEVASTATING FLOOD inKERRVILLE, TEXAS from a LOCALPASTOR, & HOW to TRUST in GOD’s SOVEREIGNTY in the MIDST of theMISERY” Subscribe: Listen:
- 00:03
- Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
- 00:11
- George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
- 00:16
- Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
- 00:23
- Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
- 00:31
- Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
- 00:38
- Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
- 00:50
- It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
- 00:57
- And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
- 01:10
- Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
- 01:15
- Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
- 01:23
- This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 18th day of July 2025.
- 01:33
- Before I introduce my guest and our topic today, I got off the phone earlier this afternoon with my longtime friend,
- 01:45
- Phil Johnson, the executive director of the media ministry for the late
- 01:53
- John MacArthur, and he gave me an update because I have been getting inquiries from our listeners in even other parts of the world, like Australia and South Africa and other places, but people are asking me about the funeral plans for Dr.
- 02:16
- MacArthur and if it's going to be live streamed. And I have been informed by Phil Johnson that it will be live streamed, and they are announcing the exact date and time this
- 02:30
- Monday, and you can find out more about that at gracechurch .org,
- 02:38
- which is the website for Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, where Dr.
- 02:45
- MacArthur served so faithfully as pastor for so many years.
- 02:51
- That's gracechurch .org. If you go to that site this Monday, they will eventually have the exact date and time that the live streaming of the funeral will occur.
- 03:07
- Today, I am thrilled to have a returning guest. I'm thrilled to have him back on the program, but the reason is rather tragic.
- 03:20
- I'm sure all of you who have any access to news media in any realm or venue—television, radio, the internet—are aware that there was a horrific flood in the
- 03:39
- Texas Hill Country that began early on the 4th of July. As far as I know, the latest death toll has reached 134 people, and the number of missing persons stands at 101.
- 04:02
- One of the primary areas of this flood that had been devastated by the flood is a town known as Kerrville, Texas.
- 04:15
- I'm sure you heard that name repeated a lot on the news, whatever news outlets you watch or listen to.
- 04:24
- We have the honor and privilege of having a returning guest today,
- 04:31
- Pastor Scott Christensen, who is Associate Pastor of Kerrville Bible Church in Kerrville, Texas.
- 04:39
- He's the author of several books, including his latest book, Defeating Evil—How God Glorifies Himself in a
- 04:48
- Dark World. Today, we're going to be addressing updates on the aftermath of the devastating flood in Kerrville, Texas from a local pastor and how to trust in God's sovereignty in the midst of the misery.
- 05:03
- It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Scott Christensen.
- 05:10
- Thank you. It's my pleasure to be with you today. And if you could, give our listeners a little description of Kerrville Bible Church.
- 05:20
- Yeah. Kerrville Bible Church was started in the late 80s and has had a variety of pastors, actually three pastors.
- 05:37
- Our current senior lead pastor is Chris McKnight, a graduate of the
- 05:44
- Master's Seminary. And this July, in fact, the same weekend that the floods took place, we had long planned a celebration of his 25th anniversary as the pastor of our church.
- 06:01
- And so it was a difficult decision to go on with that celebration in the wake of the devastation of the floods.
- 06:10
- But anyway, he's a faithful expositor, and I've been at the church for close to six years and came from pastoring a small church, a rural church in southwest
- 06:25
- Colorado for 16 years and serve now as the associate pastor.
- 06:31
- And it's a wonderful church. God has blessed us tremendously. We have seen a lot of people come to faith in Christ, and God is moving in our town.
- 06:48
- And in spite of this recent tragedy, we see him at work in a variety of ways.
- 06:55
- Well, I'm going to give a website right now in the event that there are people listening who can't listen to the entire broadcast, but it's a very important link
- 07:07
- I want to give for any of you whose hearts have been touched and whose wallets and pocketbooks have been blessed for you to be led to donate any funds that you are able to to help the flood relief efforts going on there at Kerrville Bible Church.
- 07:33
- The website is kerrvillebiblechurch .org forward slash flood dash relief.
- 07:42
- That's kerrvillebiblechurch .org forward slash flood dash relief. K -E -R -R -V -I -L -L -E biblechurch .org
- 07:51
- forward slash flood dash relief. And we'll be announcing that website toward the end of the program.
- 08:01
- So, tell us about the earliest awareness that you had on the
- 08:09
- Fourth of July of what was happening, and when did you begin to become truly alarmed that this may be a worse situation for you than you had originally realized?
- 08:26
- Well, the night before the
- 08:31
- Fourth, we had several storm warnings and indications of potential flash flooding in the area, but no one had any notion of what would take place.
- 08:51
- This region is not immune to flash flooding. In the six years that I've lived here, we've had three or four flash floods that generally isolate people in various areas because they cover the roads and prevent you from being able to travel, but nothing like this.
- 09:12
- There has not been a flood like this since I believe it was 1927. So, nearly 100 years ago, they had a similar flood, but only a handful of people died in that flood in 27, because it was during the day.
- 09:31
- This was in the middle of the night. I actually did not sleep well that night because the thunder and lightning was so intense that it kept me awake a good part of the night.
- 09:45
- I had really not realized how much it was raining until we got up in the morning and then we lost power.
- 09:55
- Probably around six in the morning, we had lost power in our home, and so we didn't even have internet access initially.
- 10:03
- So, we weren't really aware of what was going on. And so, about nine o 'clock in the morning or so, we were able to get on social media and see what was happening.
- 10:19
- And then we decided, you know, we didn't have any power, so we decided to go out and grab a cup of coffee.
- 10:24
- Well, I live about 500 yards from the river, and one of the major bridges that crosses that river is just a couple blocks from my house.
- 10:36
- So, we crossed that bridge, and that bridge sits about 35 feet above the normal surface of the water.
- 10:46
- As we crossed that bridge, I think it was about 9 .30 or 10 o 'clock, the water was about five feet below the bridge.
- 10:52
- Wow. And so, at that point, it was not very easy to see the sort of devastation that the flooding had created, because everything was underwater.
- 11:08
- And over the course of the day, as I traveled back and forth across that bridge, the devastation was unbelievable.
- 11:18
- As the waters receded, I saw several homes and trailers that were smashed against trees, saw about three or four cars overturned and falling into the river, all kinds of debris.
- 11:34
- The trees were completely wiped out in major portions of the river.
- 11:41
- It was horrific, and I've never seen anything like it in my life. And so, yeah, the devastation is hard to fathom unless you've actually—pictures don't do it justice.
- 11:58
- The videos that you're seeing just simply don't do it justice. When you're on the ground and you can see it firsthand, it's quite devastating.
- 12:10
- And first of all, has there been any structural damage to the
- 12:18
- Kerrville Bible Church or to your home or to the homes of folks in your congregation?
- 12:24
- No. Our house, as I said, is about 500 yards from the river, but we sat maybe about 10 to 15 feet above where the waters rose.
- 12:45
- Some parts of our subdivision did get—some homes in our subdivision did get flooded, but we sit up high enough where we did not.
- 12:54
- The church sits up high, so it did not get any flooding. It's quite a ways from the river.
- 13:02
- All of the flooding is along the river basin, the Guadalupe River, that its headwaters are up above a town called
- 13:10
- Hunt, which is about 12 miles upriver from Kerrville, and it splits into two forks.
- 13:19
- And they're both spring -fed waters, and so those springs feed those waters, and then they form the river.
- 13:30
- But the storm that caused the flooding, I believe it was two storms that came together and they just sat there.
- 13:38
- Typically, these storms move from one location to another. Well, they sat there for about four hours.
- 13:47
- And so in the Hunt area, which has received the greatest devastation, they received about 12 inches of total rain in some places between midnight and four o 'clock in the morning.
- 14:05
- And so that amount of water rushing through the canyons plus bedrock is not very far below the surface.
- 14:15
- The water just had nowhere to go except into the river. So in our church, we've had two people directly affected.
- 14:24
- One family whose home sits on the river, and some of the structures on their property were wiped out, were swept away into the river, and their home was flooded all the way up to the ceiling.
- 14:43
- And the damage is pretty severe. And so they are currently staying with another family in our church, and we're seeking to see how we can help them.
- 14:58
- We have another man in our church who actually recently found out that he has esophagus cancer and was in the hospital when the flood took place.
- 15:08
- He lives in an apartment building near the river, and that apartment building was flooded and condemned.
- 15:16
- And so he's not even been back home yet to see what sort of destruction to his home and belongings are.
- 15:26
- But other than that, we've had a number of people in our church that are connected, extended family, that have had homes destroyed, and even extended family that have had deaths as a result of the flood.
- 15:44
- That have had deaths? Yes. One of the members of our church, his brother owns a house along the river, and he had a sister -in -law and her husband and their daughter staying at their home.
- 16:03
- The river took the house out and swept it into the river.
- 16:11
- Prior to that, as they saw, as they were awakened by the flooding, the mother was in a location where he couldn't get to her.
- 16:26
- The daughter broke out a window and was swept away in the flood as she tried to escape the house from the window.
- 16:34
- The husband was able to escape okay and get to the side of the shore fairly quickly.
- 16:39
- But the house, you know, ripped off its foundations, headed down the river, and then immediately collapsed on the mother.
- 16:50
- They just, two days ago, found the mother, found her remains.
- 16:56
- I don't know what condition she was found in, and they still have not found the daughter. Oh, no.
- 17:02
- So, yeah, this has been devastating. It's really very devastating.
- 17:09
- Yeah, I understand. Out of the 134 deaths, 36 of those were children.
- 17:20
- Yes. We have a police officer in our church who, last week, was assigned to a team to help identify bodies and then connect those bodies to family members.
- 17:38
- And he examined 74 bodies, and he told me 26 of those were children.
- 17:47
- Wow. So, he had the majority of those children who died identified.
- 17:57
- Wow. Yes, most of those children were found within the first week.
- 18:03
- And a lot of these children were involved in a summer camp there in the area,
- 18:11
- I believe. Yeah, there's a girls' camp that everyone's probably heard by now called
- 18:18
- Camp Mystic. And it actually has two separate campuses, a newer campus and an older campus.
- 18:25
- And it was the older campus that was closest to the river and received the most damage and where most of the missing girls were from.
- 18:34
- I believe there's about 300 girls altogether in that camp, but another 200 to 300 in the newer location of the camp.
- 18:45
- Kerr County, which is where all this flooding took place, has actually 18 different camps, various camps.
- 18:58
- Some are Christian, some are not really Christian camps. But it's a very popular area for camps.
- 19:05
- And the Mystic camp was not the only camp that was impacted where children died.
- 19:11
- There are several other camps along the river where children got swept away as well.
- 19:17
- But they have not received as much attention as the Mystic camp because the casualties were not as great.
- 19:26
- Actually, the greatest number of casualties was in an RV park right outside of Kerrville as you come into the town from the upriver side.
- 19:40
- And a lot of those people were elderly folks that just were not able to escape the raging waters.
- 19:52
- And so that's where I think that was the case up until recently.
- 19:58
- I think it still is that that's where the majority of casualties took place in terms of a single area where the river took out people.
- 20:17
- It's hard to fathom. Yeah. My friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, does most of his traveling these days in an
- 20:26
- RV. And right after the flood reports were coming in, he was almost convinced as he was trying to search through his memory banks that he had stayed in one of those nearby
- 20:46
- RV parks. So it was very providential that he wasn't traveling during that period of time in that area.
- 20:57
- Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I have an inflatable kayak and I have been up and down this river in no precise locations where certain tragic deaths took place because I've been there.
- 21:20
- I've seen the descriptions and the pictures. I've been in all those locations.
- 21:27
- There was another home that collapsed and all of the family, there was several couples and a five -year -old boy and a 20—five -year -old girl and a 20 -month -year -old boy.
- 21:46
- They all survived by clinging to trees, but the little 20 -month -old boy got swept away.
- 21:54
- A couple days after the flooding, I believe it was on the 6th of July, I came to a movie theater that's just down the road from where I live, and I went behind that movie theater just to look at the damage of the river.
- 22:13
- And it was only later that day that I realized that's where they found this 20 -month -old boy.
- 22:18
- Wow. That was right where I was standing in the river. I had not realized that at the time.
- 22:26
- So that was—yeah, it was devastating to just know where this all happened and then to be in that location where that little one -and -a -half -year -old boy was found.
- 22:42
- Yeah, it's just—it's unfathomable. And, you know, we have another family in our church who has a couple of older brothers.
- 22:57
- It's a large family that were first responders, and they were some of the first people to help a number of people up in the
- 23:06
- Hunt region. Again, that's a town that's about 12 miles up from Kerrville, warning people.
- 23:12
- They were aware that the flood was happening, and they were trying to get as many people out of their homes as they could.
- 23:21
- And unfortunately, they could not reach everyone, and they witnessed a number of RVs floating down the river with people in them as they were screaming and then watched them get swallowed up in the waters.
- 23:36
- Wow. And the trauma that they have experienced is just hard to fathom.
- 23:44
- And that's just one of multiple stories like that. Many people tried to help people, and just—the river rose so quickly and moved so fast that it just—it took everyone by complete surprise.
- 24:02
- Wow. I mentioned, as you know, in the outset of the program, the website for those wanting to be involved in supporting
- 24:13
- Kerrville Bible Church's flood relief efforts, kerrvillebiblechurch .org
- 24:19
- forward slash flood dash relief. Can you tell us what exactly those relief efforts are, and what are they looking like now?
- 24:28
- Well, our church has responded in two ways. We are actually the host church for Samaritan's Purse.
- 24:40
- And shortly after the flood took place, we contacted them, and we agreed to host them on our campus.
- 24:54
- And so our campus is full of Samaritan's Purse personnel and vehicles and equipment.
- 25:02
- And we have about 50 people of their team that's staying in our church for several weeks.
- 25:10
- We still got a few more weeks they plan to be here. So a number of our own church members are kind of volunteering as a support team to them.
- 25:21
- And they send out teams of about 150 people a day to various homes that have been flooded.
- 25:29
- And their main objective is what they call muck and gut. And so they go into these places, homes that have been flooded, and they remove all the furniture.
- 25:39
- They remove all the belongings. They clean up the place as best they can.
- 25:44
- And then they take out sheetrock and other things that would cause mold and basically leave the structure in a condition where contractors can come in and determine whether or not the building is salvageable and can be rebuilt.
- 26:00
- And in most cases, that's true. And in probably a handful of cases, the buildings just need to be condemned and torn down.
- 26:08
- So that's mainly what they're doing, and we're kind of supporting them. I have to say that everyone—a lot of people have heard of Samaritan's Purse.
- 26:17
- It's Franklin Graham's ministry. They have been fantastic, and the work that they do and the professionalism and the
- 26:25
- Christian witness that they maintain has been phenomenal. And, you know,
- 26:33
- I would encourage listeners to consider supporting Samaritan's Purse as well. I don't always agree with their theology in some ways, but when it comes to disaster relief,
- 26:45
- I don't think there's a better organization out there. Yeah, there can be people, in my opinion, who act like complete idiots, who want to micromanage the theological views of people doing heroic work physically during a calamity of some kind, some kind of a mind -boggling tragedy, and they would dare to say that they weren't going to be involved in supporting a group like Samaritan's Purse because of serious theological differences on humanism and other things, but they would be the first ones to receive help from them if they needed it.
- 27:42
- So we have to really seriously consider, before we open our mouths or start typing moronic things on our computer keypads, we have to really consider what we would do if our home was flooded or destroyed, if we had lost loved ones, if we had missing loved ones, if we had lost our ability for income and providing for our family and all these things.
- 28:16
- We have to be very careful as to when and how and the manner with which we publicly disagree with those of different theological persuasions.
- 28:33
- Yes, it's interesting that Samaritan's Purse partners with another organization, the
- 28:39
- Billy Graham kind of ministries. It's called the
- 28:44
- Billy Graham Rapid Response Team, and it's basically a group of chaplains. They're kind of their own organization, but they work in tandem with Samaritan's Purse to try to counsel with people and share the gospel as best they can.
- 28:58
- And so we met with some of their chaplains, myself and our lead pastor, and as they share the gospel with various people, they write down names, and then they give those to the host church.
- 29:16
- And so we've received a list of names of victims that have had some kind of spiritual counsel or gospel shared with them, and I have already contacted a number of those people, some who have agreed to come to church this coming
- 29:32
- Sunday. So hopefully that will happen, and I've had opportunities to bear witness to Christ, to some of those folks, and to help them process some of the trauma of this tragedy.
- 29:50
- So there's been some good that's coming out of all this, and there are already pretty amazing stories of how
- 29:57
- God is working in our own church and even in other churches in the area.
- 30:04
- Well, we have to go to our first commercial break, and when we come back, we're going to be addressing this tragedy from a theological point of view.
- 30:14
- My guest today, Scott Christensen, is a Reformed Baptist, and as I announced at the beginning of the program, he is the author of several books, and his writing, although not precisely the exact same theme, is not far afield from the theme of what we're dealing with today.
- 30:44
- He has written his latest book, Defeating Evil, How God Glorifies Himself in a Dark World.
- 30:49
- And obviously, although a flood is morally neutral, it's not an evil thing, but it's still something that the populace has to cope with, especially if they have lost loved ones or they know many people who have lost loved ones, and they wonder how a loving
- 31:16
- God could actually exist in the midst of such misery and such tragedy.
- 31:25
- And that is a very common thing that goes through the minds not only of unbelievers, but even the minds of believers.
- 31:33
- And very often, sadly, very sadly, you'll have professing
- 31:38
- Christians and even well -known Christian leaders, so -called, well -known folks who are authors and so on, giving horrible counsel publicly in the media and false theology, acting as if God was not involved in this at all, as if he was just a witness to it, but not in any way involved in it.
- 32:08
- And so these are the kinds of things we have to grapple with. And we're going to have
- 32:13
- Scott Christensen address this, known theologically as a theodicy, the defense of the goodness of God in the midst of tragedy and evil.
- 32:24
- But if you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
- 32:32
- Again, give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence. You may remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
- 32:42
- Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. James White here of Alpha Omega Ministries, announcing that this
- 33:00
- September, I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend
- 33:06
- Chris Arnzen has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th, at 11am,
- 33:11
- I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron radio pre -pastor's luncheon at Church of the
- 33:19
- Living Christ in Loisville. Then, on Sunday, September 21st, at 1 .30pm,
- 33:25
- I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the Bible is the
- 33:31
- Authentic and Inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events. For more details on the free pastor's luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com.
- 33:42
- That's ironsharpensironradio .com. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, visit trbccarlisle .org.
- 33:53
- That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.
- 34:12
- Praising God for the addition of Gold Wealth Management to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio family of advertisers.
- 34:20
- They are veteran owned and operated and built on the values of honor, courage, commitment and service to others.
- 34:28
- The same values that were instilled in the owner during his eight years in the Marine Corps. Gold Wealth Management is offering free reports on current market conditions.
- 34:38
- The threat of BRICS, which stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.
- 34:46
- The coming digital currency and how to protect your savings and retirement accounts with real assets like physical gold and silver.
- 34:55
- There is absolutely no pressure and no obligation. Request your free reports today.
- 35:02
- Call 623 -640 -5911. That's 623 -640 -5911.
- 35:12
- Or visit goldwealthmanagement .com slash iron.
- 35:18
- That's goldwealthmanagement .com slash iron. And tell them
- 35:24
- Chris from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio sent you. Don't wait. Be informed. Be prepared with Gold Wealth Management.
- 35:38
- This program is sponsored by Hope PR Ministry. Hope PR Ministry is a podcast produced by Hope Protestant Reformed Church in Walker, Michigan.
- 35:49
- We are dedicated to sharing Reformed Biblical content every Wednesday and Friday. Tune in for sermons, lectures and interviews exploring distinctive
- 35:59
- Reformed doctrines. If you are looking for Christ -centered content, simply search
- 36:05
- Hope PR Ministry on your favorite podcast platform to begin listening today.
- 36:11
- Hope PR Ministry also offers Morning Meditations, a daily podcast featuring
- 36:16
- Reformed devotionals designed to nourish your soul. Start your day with these spiritually enriching messages by tuning in to Morning Meditations wherever you get your podcasts.
- 36:30
- I'm Simon O'Mahony, Pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
- 36:36
- Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.
- 36:45
- At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost and the glory of our triune
- 37:00
- God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging and serving each other as the body of Christ.
- 37:08
- In our worship, we sing Psalms and the great hymns of the faith and we gather around the Lord's table every
- 37:14
- Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.
- 37:22
- That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.
- 37:39
- I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Comac, Long Island.
- 37:45
- I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my longtime friend and brother,
- 37:51
- Chris Arnzen, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today. I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,
- 38:06
- Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Well, with the economic nightmare that we're all currently enduring, cvbbs .com,
- 38:18
- I want to enable you to build a wonderful personal library of the best literature that the
- 38:24
- Reformers, the Puritans, and the great Christian minds of today have to offer, and at affordable prices.
- 38:31
- Not only does cvbbs .com offer up to 50 % off retail prices, but you'll get an added 5 % off orders of $50 or more by using promo code
- 38:46
- IRON, I -R -O -N, an added 5 % off all of your orders of $50 or more from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
- 38:59
- That's cvbbs .com, making the joy of reading the finest in Christian literature more affordable.
- 39:07
- Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
- 39:15
- And don't forget, folks, cvbbs .com is now shipping worldwide.
- 39:39
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio prays God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the
- 39:49
- American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.
- 39:56
- For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring, or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created exactly according to your imagination and specifications,
- 40:07
- Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step -by -step through every stage of the process, and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit using state -of -the -art jewelry design technology to serve you.
- 40:23
- They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you.
- 40:32
- From rough design to digital model, to photorealistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.
- 40:46
- This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your expectations.
- 40:55
- Visit royaldiadem .com. That's royaldiadem .com today.
- 41:01
- Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner and manager,
- 41:08
- Brian Wilson, and the entire family, thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
- 41:21
- And don't forget, folks, royaldiadem .com not only provides
- 41:27
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with monthly financial support automatically, but on top of that, they love us so much that they are giving us 100 % of the profits from any sale of jewelry simply if our listeners mention
- 41:44
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and they purchase their jewelry from royaldiadem .com. So, whether you're purchasing jewelry that they already have in stock or if you're having a one -of -a -kind customized piece of jewelry created, whatever the case may be, we will get 100 % of the profits from that sale if you mention
- 42:03
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. That's royaldiadem .com. Visit that site today and mention
- 42:09
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with Scott Christensen, associate pastor of Kerrville Bible Church in Kerrville, Texas, the area of Texas that was devastated on 4th of July and the following days due to that horrific flood and the death toll, as we mentioned before, is up to 134 souls, and many of those were children,
- 42:41
- I believe 36. And if you have any questions of your own about our subject today, trusting in God's sovereignty in the midst of the misery, you may submit a question to chrisarnsen at gmail .com
- 42:57
- and give us your first name at least, your city and state and your country of residence, and you may remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
- 43:11
- Well, it's very providential, Scott, obviously, that you just recently moved from Colorado to Kerrville, and I'm sure it must have entered your mind, being somebody that truly trusts in the sovereignty of God, that all things that come to pass are things that have been divinely orchestrated and ordained by Him, you must have thought, well,
- 43:38
- God has me here for a reason. Now that this flood has happened,
- 43:44
- I know that He's going to want to use me in some important way, and so tell us about that.
- 43:50
- Am I correct that that has entered your mind? Absolutely. My book,
- 43:58
- Defeating Evil, which is a smaller, kind of condensed version of a larger work called
- 44:05
- What About Evil, addresses these kinds of matters head on, just trying to give a broad biblical perspective on why we see things like natural disasters and moral evil just permeate our world.
- 44:24
- And incidentally, we had a member of our church that purchased quite a number of copies of my book and distributed them to a local
- 44:36
- Salvation Army center that's in our town, and so hopefully people are reading that.
- 44:48
- But yeah, it's precisely the kinds of things that I wanted to address in my book.
- 44:58
- And when you see the horrific nature of this particular tragedy and the deaths of children and the devastation that it has caused, it's overwhelming.
- 45:13
- It's interesting to think about this particular flood. The percentage of people who have died versus the percentage of property damage is extraordinarily high.
- 45:29
- In most disasters in the history of the United States, there's far more property damage than there is loss of life.
- 45:38
- And in this particular tragedy, there's an extraordinarily high percentage or proportion of loss to life to loss of property.
- 45:49
- And so that adds a certain weightiness to this particular tragedy.
- 45:58
- Well, there are obviously many people who use these kinds of occurrences to mock
- 46:11
- God, to say that there's no way that a loving
- 46:16
- God could possibly exist if He is supposed to be all -powerful and all -knowing.
- 46:24
- There's nothing He allegedly cannot do.
- 46:30
- He could have stopped this. He didn't. And you could go on and on with the ways that skeptics and unbelievers mock
- 46:43
- God and mock those who believe and trust in God during something like this. And then, of course, just as we said before, there are
- 46:52
- Christians who don't know their Bible very well. Even if they've memorized great portions of it, they don't seem to understand it very well because they sometimes come up with very heretical and even sometimes ridiculous notions of how
- 47:12
- God functions and operates in our midst. So if you could, lay down some thoughts for us all to remember that helps us to continue trusting in the sovereignty of God in the midst of the misery.
- 47:28
- Sure. Well, I would like to preface that whole matter with more of a kind of pastoral approach and concern when you have to confront tragedies like this head -on.
- 47:49
- You know, my books are written to address a theological problem, an apologetic kind of problem that people bring up with regard to the existence of God and the description of God as all -powerful and all -good.
- 48:11
- And yet, when you're addressing somebody who is going through a tragedy like this—as we have people in our church that have been directly affected—the first thing that you do is not to give them a theological lecture on God's sovereignty and the problem of evil.
- 48:34
- That's not what people need in the wake of a tragedy like this. They need compassion.
- 48:40
- They need to know that you love them, that you care for them, that you were there for them, that you will help meet their needs, that you will minister to their hurting souls.
- 48:53
- And that's a very important pastoral wisdom, I believe, that everyone needs to be aware of.
- 49:02
- Sometimes you don't say anything to the person who's gone through a traumatic experience like this.
- 49:08
- Sometimes it's just crying with them. We weep with those who weep, the
- 49:13
- Bible says. And so there's a time to be silent like Job's friends, and then there's a time to speak.
- 49:25
- Certainly not like Job's friends spoke. The best thing Job's friends did in the midst of his tragedy was not to say a thing for the first week that they sat with him.
- 49:37
- But at some point, the thinking Christian, the
- 49:42
- Christian who wants to grow in their knowledge and understanding of who God is and what
- 49:49
- God is doing in this world, they want answers to some of these deep questions. And so that's what
- 49:57
- I attempt to do in my book. Essentially, it is dealing with the problem of evil, and the problem of evil can be simply stated like this.
- 50:07
- If God is all good, he has all goodness present within him as an omnibenevolent being, and God is also all -powerful, in which he has all the requisite powers to do anything in this universe, having expressed those powers in the very creation of the universe, then the question is, if you combine those two attributes of God, then how could such a
- 50:43
- God possibly allow, permit evil to take place?
- 50:49
- Some people use that language of permit or allow, or as good
- 50:55
- Calvinists, we would say God actually ordains everything, including evil itself.
- 51:04
- This makes the burden in some ways even greater for those of us who take a strong view of God's sovereign grace, even harder than someone who does not.
- 51:21
- The most common response to the problem of evil, in terms of trying to exonerate
- 51:28
- God from the charge that he is the author of evil, is to employ what's called the free will defense, in which the idea is that God grants his creatures this unfettered freedom of will, and he does not interfere with that free will.
- 51:48
- Therefore, if those creatures use that free will to choose evil,
- 51:55
- God is not responsible because he can't interfere with their freedom. That is the most common response that Christians give to try to get
- 52:04
- God off the hook and to cast all responsibility upon human beings. The question is, if God, in fact, ordains evil, then how can he be exonerated from being the instigator and responsible, morally culpable for evil itself?
- 52:26
- It's important for us to recognize there is a distinction here as well. We make a distinction between what we might call natural evil and moral evil.
- 52:38
- Moral evil concerns the immoral actions, the good or evil actions of morally responsible creatures, such as human beings and even angels could be put in that category.
- 52:55
- God himself could be in that category because God is a moral being, as a holy and righteous
- 53:01
- God, whereas natural evil—things like natural disasters, disease, epidemics, even accidents that take place, you know, not necessarily as a result of natural catastrophes.
- 53:20
- But nonetheless, we believe God ordains these as well, even though there's no moral component to them, such that the death of all these people came to no fault of their own.
- 53:34
- They weren't the result of some immoral actions of another person. They were result of a fallen world.
- 53:41
- In fact, Scott, we've got to pick up right where you left off there. Don't forget where you left off, because we've got to go to our midway break.
- 53:49
- And please don't go away, because we're going to be right back with Scott Christensen and more of trusting in God's sovereignty in the midst of the misery.
- 53:59
- Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.
- 54:09
- Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.
- 54:17
- We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
- 54:30
- We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt
- 54:36
- Christ. This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.
- 54:42
- Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.
- 54:49
- Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Fight. PuritanPHX .com
- 54:59
- Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the
- 55:07
- ReformRookie .com website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the
- 55:16
- Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.
- 55:26
- Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.
- 55:32
- Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.
- 55:42
- Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the
- 55:48
- Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the ReformRookie .com
- 55:54
- podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a
- 56:01
- Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keach's Catechism and the
- 56:07
- Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
- 56:17
- And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.
- 56:27
- Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invidio, and thanks for listening. God Bless.
- 57:36
- I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and the
- 57:42
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the
- 57:51
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the
- 57:59
- NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
- 58:04
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?
- 58:10
- Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
- 58:20
- Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
- 58:26
- It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.
- 58:46
- Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
- 58:55
- Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.
- 59:04
- One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.
- 59:12
- Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
- 59:21
- Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
- 59:27
- Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
- 59:32
- Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
- 59:38
- Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
- 59:47
- Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
- 59:59
- Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
- 01:00:05
- For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.
- 01:00:11
- That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. Or call 678 -954 -7831.
- 01:00:18
- That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them
- 01:00:23
- Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
- 01:00:41
- I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
- 01:00:46
- I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
- 01:00:52
- Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
- 01:00:59
- It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim
- 01:01:17
- Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
- 01:01:24
- I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.
- 01:01:33
- For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
- 01:01:40
- That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.
- 01:01:49
- That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
- 01:02:03
- I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a
- 01:02:27
- Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the
- 01:02:35
- Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.
- 01:02:47
- At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired
- 01:02:52
- Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
- 01:03:04
- We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.
- 01:03:20
- Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear
- 01:03:28
- God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the
- 01:03:34
- Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit LindbrookBaptist .org.
- 01:03:40
- That's L -Y -N -BrookBaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
- 01:03:53
- It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast.
- 01:03:59
- May the Lord bless you in the knowledge of Himself. Attention, all
- 01:04:14
- Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners. There is no doubt we are living in difficult times.
- 01:04:19
- Our country is facing out -of -control government spending, a looming trade war, a race towards a traceable digital currency, and the growing
- 01:04:28
- BRICS alliance, which stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.
- 01:04:35
- All signs are pointing to major shifts in the global economy. More and more countries are dumping the
- 01:04:41
- U .S. dollar, and that should be a wake -up call. That's why I urge you to call my friends at Gold Wealth Management, advertisers here on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
- 01:04:52
- They are offering free, no -obligation reports on market conditions, the
- 01:04:57
- BRICS threat, the future of digital currency, and how to protect your wealth with physical gold and silver.
- 01:05:04
- Do you already own physical gold or silver, but were never fully educated and still have questions?
- 01:05:11
- Maybe you're unsure how it fits into your overall plan. Call for a free evaluation and educational call with the team at Gold Wealth Management.
- 01:05:22
- Call 623 -640 -5911. That's 623 -640 -5911.
- 01:05:31
- Or visit goldwealthmanagement .com slash iron.
- 01:05:36
- That's goldwealthmanagement .com slash iron.
- 01:05:42
- Don't guess. Don't delay. Get the information you need to make a sound, informed decision.
- 01:05:50
- Tell them Chris from Iron Sharpens Iron radio sent you. That's Gold Wealth Management. Welcome back.
- 01:05:57
- Before I return to my fascinating conversation with Scott Christensen, associate pastor of Kerrville Bible Church in Kerrville, Texas, which the surrounding area was devastated by a recent flood, which began on the 4th of July, as all of you by now know.
- 01:06:21
- And we are discussing trusting in the sovereignty of God in the midst of the misery. But before we return to that conversation,
- 01:06:30
- I just have some important reminders for you. If you really love this show, folks, and you don't want it to go off the air, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com.
- 01:06:40
- Click support, then click. Click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.
- 01:06:47
- And if you prefer snail mail, mailing a physical check at your local post office to a physical address.
- 01:06:54
- Well, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com
- 01:07:00
- where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, parachurch, ministry, your business, your private professional practice like a law firm or a medical firm, or maybe it's just a special event that you want to promote.
- 01:07:16
- As long as whatever it is you want to advertise is compatible with my beliefs, I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.
- 01:07:27
- So if you're interested in advertising, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.
- 01:07:36
- And keep in mind, folks, as urgently and as desperately as we need your financial support to continue to exist in perpetuity,
- 01:07:46
- I never want anybody in my audience to give less money to your own local church where you are a member in order to bless
- 01:07:57
- Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. In other words, never cut in to the funds that you have set aside specifically for your
- 01:08:07
- Lord's Day giving to your own church in order to bless us. Never do that. And if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you send us a gift.
- 01:08:19
- But if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, and you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, well, please, if you love the show, share some of that money with us.
- 01:08:32
- Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.
- 01:08:37
- Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, doctrinally sound, and theologically solid church like Kerrville Bible Church in Kerrville, Texas, no matter where you live on the planet
- 01:08:52
- Earth, I have helped many people in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience spanning the entire globe find churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live, that are biblically faithful, and I may be able to help you too, no matter where in the world you live.
- 01:09:08
- So if you are without a church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com
- 01:09:14
- and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Scott Christensen.
- 01:09:21
- And as I said, we are discussing trusting in God's sovereignty in the midst of the misery.
- 01:09:27
- And as we said before, he and his church,
- 01:09:32
- Kerrville Bible Church, are working in partnership with Samaritan's Purse to help those who are victims of this devastating flood in the
- 01:09:44
- Kerr County area, which so far has taken over 130 lives and over 100 people still missing.
- 01:09:56
- Scott, I had to interrupt you to go to the midway break, but you were just starting to explain how a flood obviously is a morally neutral event, and you could pick up where you left off.
- 01:10:11
- Yeah, you know, we distinguish between moral evil and what we might call natural evil.
- 01:10:18
- That is the result of the curse that came upon the creation due to Adam's sin in the garden.
- 01:10:28
- And so nonetheless, God ordains and orchestrates and providentially ensures everything that takes place.
- 01:10:37
- A great place to see the proof of that is to carefully read, for example, through Isaiah 40 through 48, where Isaiah repeatedly affirms
- 01:10:50
- God's sovereignty over both good and evil, particularly chapter 45 and chapter 46.
- 01:10:57
- I encourage your listeners to look at some of those passages. But the question still remains, how does
- 01:11:03
- God remain not morally culpable for natural disasters like this that bring death?
- 01:11:16
- And it's important to recognize that one of the primary ways that the
- 01:11:24
- Bible assigns moral culpability to actions that bring devastation like this, whether they be moral actions or, you know, these sorts of natural disasters, has to do with the intentions of the heart.
- 01:11:42
- So when it comes to moral evil with human beings, God judges us based on the intentions of our heart.
- 01:11:48
- And of course, that is also rooted in the fact that we have a knowledge, an innate knowledge of good and evil, as Romans 2 tells us.
- 01:11:58
- But the same principle applies to God. God's moral culpability is related to his intentions.
- 01:12:07
- And so when God ordains something to take place because he is all good and there is no evil that exists within God, then he must have of necessity a good intention for everything that takes place.
- 01:12:27
- Some people refer to this as the greater good argument for the problem of evil.
- 01:12:33
- That God always has a greater good that outweighs whatever evil, the goods that God seeks to ascertain from some event that might bring pain and suffering into the lives of his creatures.
- 01:12:54
- He must have some greater purpose in that than the evil itself.
- 01:13:03
- If the evil outweighs the good that God seeks to gain from some instance of evil, then
- 01:13:13
- I think we might have greater reason to impugn God for that evil.
- 01:13:20
- A great place to see this in Scripture would be in the life of Joseph.
- 01:13:29
- Your readers probably are familiar with that story in which Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers.
- 01:13:37
- And then, of course, Joseph experienced all sorts of calamity.
- 01:13:43
- He was wrongly accused of rape. He was imprisoned. He experienced the famine that came across the whole land.
- 01:13:54
- And that famine brought Joseph's brothers to Egypt when Joseph was then made essentially the prime minister of Egypt.
- 01:14:04
- And God orchestrated all that. We know that because in Genesis chapter 45, when
- 01:14:10
- Joseph has this initial meeting with his brothers, he not only acknowledges their moral culpability for having sold him as a slave into Egypt, they themselves acknowledge that.
- 01:14:24
- But then he goes on to say, but I don't want you to think that it was just you that sent me here.
- 01:14:30
- It was actually God that sent me here. And that God orchestrated even your evil actions to bring me to this place.
- 01:14:42
- And then the key passage is in a subsequent meeting that Joseph had with his brothers in Genesis chapter 50.
- 01:14:52
- And I think this passage is probably one of the key passages in the
- 01:14:58
- Bible that helps us make sense of what God does in tragedies like this.
- 01:15:07
- Joseph is speaking to his brothers and he says, you know, do not be afraid for I'm not in God's place.
- 01:15:15
- You know, God is the one that has orchestrated all of this. And then he goes on to say to them in verse 20,
- 01:15:23
- Genesis chapter 50, verse 20, as for you, you meant evil against me.
- 01:15:30
- But God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result to preserve many people alive.
- 01:15:38
- Right through the famine in particular. But the point is, is that there's a principle that's being expressed in this verse that moral culpability is rooted in the intentions of the heart, whether it be human intentions or the intentions of God.
- 01:15:55
- Because God has no evil intentions, all of his intentions must be good.
- 01:16:02
- And therefore, even though he ordains and orchestrates all things, including evil, he of necessity must always have some good purpose.
- 01:16:16
- And I would say even a greater purpose that outweighs whatever the impact of that tragedy might be on individual lives and the suffering and pain that it causes.
- 01:16:30
- And that brings up another important point.
- 01:16:37
- And it is this. We don't always know what
- 01:16:43
- God is doing. We don't always know what greater goods
- 01:16:49
- God might be seeking to gain from any instance of evil.
- 01:16:57
- This is true, for example, in the life of Job. Here's a righteous man, righteous by God's own declaration that he was a blameless and righteous man.
- 01:17:10
- And yet God brought out all this calamity in Joseph's life. Most of his family was wiped out in various tragedies that took place.
- 01:17:20
- He himself experienced a horrific disease and lost much of his property and belongings in various catastrophes.
- 01:17:32
- And throughout the book of Job, he is asking God, why? Why did you bring these things about?
- 01:17:38
- And when you read chapters one and two, it's very clear that even though Satan was the instrument for some of these tragedies,
- 01:17:45
- God is the one that was ultimately sovereignly ordaining all of it to happen.
- 01:17:51
- And when Job seeks to ask God, well, why has all of this happened?
- 01:17:58
- God never gives him an answer. Job 38 -41, when
- 01:18:04
- God finally speaks in the events that take place and speaks directly to Job, God just begins to reiterate all of his sovereign actions in creation and in history and basically establishing his sovereignty as God.
- 01:18:26
- And he never gives Job an answer. He never owes
- 01:18:32
- Job an answer for the specific suffering that he experienced.
- 01:18:39
- And Job really has to be humbled to the point where he says, all my attempts to understand this are futile.
- 01:18:53
- And Job had to come to the place where he just simply needed to trust
- 01:18:58
- God, even though he didn't know what all God's purposes are.
- 01:19:04
- Sometimes God reveals his purposes in specific instances of evil, and sometimes he does not.
- 01:19:11
- In the case of Joseph and his brothers, God revealed that it was clear what God was doing. In the case of Job's life, it's not clear.
- 01:19:20
- Nonetheless, in the end, God gets all the glory because he is good.
- 01:19:26
- He is supremely good, and he will gain good from every instance of evil, whether it be natural evil or moral evil.
- 01:19:36
- And the greatest example of this, of course, gets to the very heart of the problem of evil, and that is the ordaining of the very death, atoning death of Christ himself.
- 01:19:51
- And we see that, for example, in Acts chapter 2, which
- 01:19:57
- I think is a passage that all your reader, all your listeners ought to be familiar with.
- 01:20:06
- In the preaching of Peter on the day of Pentecost, he addresses the men of Israel, and he says, listen to these words.
- 01:20:14
- This is Acts chapter 2, verse 22. It says, Jesus of Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs, which
- 01:20:23
- God performed through him in your midst. Just as you yourselves know, this was not, you know,
- 01:20:30
- Jesus did all this publicly. They knew who he was. They knew who he claimed to be. They said, this man delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death.
- 01:20:48
- This is a very fascinating statement that Peter is making, because on the one hand, he's saying evil men did this.
- 01:20:55
- You put him to death. You are godless men, and therefore, because of your godless intentions, you are responsible for the death of Christ.
- 01:21:07
- And yet, on the other hand, Peter is saying that God determined all of this by his predetermined plan and foreknowledge.
- 01:21:16
- And so, we see this kind of tension between moral responsibility and divine sovereignty.
- 01:21:25
- And, of course, we don't have to read into this verse anything more to realize that why is this?
- 01:21:37
- Why did God do this? Well, it's because he brought about the greatest good from the greatest evil that has ever occurred in history.
- 01:21:47
- I don't think you could make an argument that there was a greater moral evil than the evil of the godless men who put to death the
- 01:21:57
- Son of God, knowing who he was. Amen. And God using that to bring about the whole plan of redemption.
- 01:22:06
- It is the greatest good that brings about the greatest glory to God that we've ever seen.
- 01:22:13
- And it forms a kind of matrix from which we can then derive all evil throughout the whole history of the world as its intention,
- 01:22:25
- God's intention to bring about a greater good, ultimately the good of redemption.
- 01:22:31
- Judgment is part of that as well. But ultimately, to bring glory to God himself. That's the ultimate purpose.
- 01:22:38
- The ultimate purpose of all things is to bring glory to God, including his ordaining of good and evil.
- 01:22:46
- That was a mouthful. Oh, that was all excellent. And I'm glad that you let everything that was filling your mouth come out.
- 01:22:58
- Definitely needed to hear those things. And one thing I'd like you to comment on is
- 01:23:06
- I know that you are not a prophet and you don't have the ability to read the hearts and minds of men like Christ alone can.
- 01:23:19
- And I wouldn't want you to say that you know with certainty what the motives are of people.
- 01:23:27
- But I have always been mystified when
- 01:23:32
- Christians and even pastors and men that are considered leaders among pastors, men that might have even written books and so on.
- 01:23:46
- But people who profess to be Christians, who somehow say they are more comforted in believing that God had nothing to do with a devastating trial in their life or occurrence or something that has become a publicly known incident, maybe even globally known.
- 01:24:14
- They seem to think it is more comforting and soothing to people to not involve
- 01:24:22
- God in it and God's sovereignty and not ever to bring up his foreordination of something like that.
- 01:24:32
- But now, obviously, as you just said earlier, we're not to, in the midst of the pain and suffering of people who have experienced a traumatic loss recently, the deaths of their loved ones, everything they own, they may be even physically maimed or crippled themselves, we're not to start theologically lecturing them.
- 01:24:58
- I know that. But at the same time, ultimately, we who love the truths of God never want to be ashamed of that, embarrassed by it, and eventually these things will come up in some fashion and manner.
- 01:25:15
- But can you give any explanation in your own mind why is it that some
- 01:25:22
- Christian men and women find it more comforting to think that God was distant and uninvolved than people like us who find great comfort in knowing that God was very intimately involved in everything that has occurred in our lives, even those things that are tragic?
- 01:25:43
- Yeah, I'm not sure I can understand all the motives for people who would say they find more comfort in that.
- 01:25:50
- I think I understand in some senses why they do it, because they want, in some cases, want to avoid assigning moral responsibility to God for the evil that takes place in their life, and they don't know how to do that other than to fall back onto the free will kind of defense.
- 01:26:11
- You know, God gave us free will. He's not going to interfere with that, and therefore sometimes we make the wrong choices.
- 01:26:19
- But that doesn't explain natural evil. You know, God causes the rain to fall and the sun to shine and all of that.
- 01:26:30
- So, you know, how does that explain a tragedy like this flood in which, you know, over 130 people have died?
- 01:26:40
- You can't fall back on, well, if God didn't do this, who did?
- 01:26:47
- Then, you know, did Satan do it? So, you know, is
- 01:26:52
- Satan then somehow overpowering God? Is Satan doing things that God couldn't stop
- 01:27:00
- Satan from doing? Is there some other force in the world, be it sort of natural forces, that caused this flood to take place and God had no control over it?
- 01:27:14
- If that's the case, that's a far worse scenario for us to accept, to think that God's out of control.
- 01:27:24
- There are forces in this world. There are evil forces in this world, whether they're natural or come from Satan or some other entity that in these cases are more powerful than God himself.
- 01:27:37
- And God can't do anything about it. That's not a place that I think any
- 01:27:42
- Christian wants to go. And so we've got to live with this tension between God's sovereign control of all things, including all good and all evil.
- 01:27:53
- And yet at the same time, God's all -encompassing goodness. And, you know, in the wake of tragedy, what we want to emphasize with those who experience tragedies, we want to emphasize
- 01:28:07
- God's goodness. But at some point, as I said before, and as you again repeated, we're going to have to deal with God's sovereignty as well.
- 01:28:18
- I'm getting ready to preach a sermon of comfort and encouragement to our congregation this week, who's been suffering a great deal.
- 01:28:26
- I'm not going to put a lot of emphasis on God's sovereignty. I'm going to put a lot of emphasis on God's goodness.
- 01:28:33
- And we need to see that he is good even in the midst of tragedy, though at some point we have to recognize that we can't understand that goodness and the full implications of it apart from his sovereignty.
- 01:28:46
- The two go together. But sometimes we emphasize more of God's sovereignty, given certain moments, and other times more of his goodness.
- 01:28:56
- And so in the wake of tragedy, I think it's wise to focus on his goodness. And when we want a full theological explanation for what's going on, then we have to see how that goodness corresponds to his sovereignty.
- 01:29:09
- Yes, I can recall as a young boy, I think
- 01:29:15
- I might have even been in my preteens or very early teens, listening to record albums.
- 01:29:23
- I don't even know if half my audience, depending upon how old they are or young they are, they even know what that means, record album.
- 01:29:30
- But I can remember listening with my friends to the record albums of the late comedian
- 01:29:38
- George Carlin. And George eventually became, sadly, a foaming at the mouth, rabid atheist and started to substitute stand -up comedy routines for atheistic lectures, it seemed.
- 01:29:56
- But before he was doing that, he was actually in his own wicked way, at one time, defending the existence of God.
- 01:30:09
- And he was saying things like how horrible it is that people are always blaming
- 01:30:19
- God for these horrible tragedies where people die and so on.
- 01:30:26
- And there should be people forming mobs with torches in hand, trying to find
- 01:30:34
- God to blame him for the horrible loss of life and some kind of a tragedy.
- 01:30:42
- And he wound up giving an apologetic for God being subject to physical laws.
- 01:30:50
- And I don't know how much of what he was saying he was actually believing in his mind and heart, but that also reminded me of later on in my life.
- 01:31:04
- I don't know how old you are, if you remember Rabbi Kushner, Why Bad Things Happen to Good People, it was a book that he wrote.
- 01:31:13
- Yeah, I mentioned that book in both my books on the problem of evil. Right. And it seems that many
- 01:31:20
- Christians either consciously or unconsciously borrow some of his unbiblical philosophy to give themselves some kind of comfort.
- 01:31:32
- But it really makes God impotent. It makes God not God, doesn't it? Yeah. Well, Kushner basically said,
- 01:31:40
- I can believe in a God who is all loving but can't stop tragedy than a
- 01:31:47
- God who can stop tragedy. But it seems to me if that's the case, he's not all loving.
- 01:31:55
- And so this is where people get off balance. They don't see how we must affirm both fully at the same time.
- 01:32:03
- You know, it's not an either or proposition. God is all good and he is all sovereign.
- 01:32:12
- There's nothing that stands outside of God's control and there's nothing that stands outside of God's all encompassing goodness.
- 01:32:21
- The tension there is that that all encompassing goodness also involves his ordaining of evil.
- 01:32:29
- And part of the argument that I seek to make in both of my books is that God's ultimate intention in the creation of the world was to supremely magnify his glory.
- 01:32:48
- OK, so just stop there. If you think about it, if that was God's intention, and I believe that's true, and that's the testimony of the history of the church and their interpretation of the
- 01:32:57
- Bible in its most orthodox fashion. If that was God's purpose, then how did
- 01:33:04
- God most glorify himself? Well, you ask that question and just ask any question, where has
- 01:33:11
- God most glorified his name? Where has he most glorified, magnified his glory?
- 01:33:17
- Well, I think we would all conclude, all Christians should conclude, that God most magnified his glory in the death and resurrection of Christ.
- 01:33:26
- That brings about the redemption that he planned for humanity and ultimately for the world itself in terms of the physical creation.
- 01:33:36
- But how could Christ come to be our redeemer unless God also ordained something to be redeemed?
- 01:33:45
- Something that was ruined by sin and evil and the curse that is resting upon creation.
- 01:33:54
- There could be no ultimate glory apart—that story could not exist apart from God ordaining the fall of Adam and Eve and all the curses that came with it.
- 01:34:07
- And so I don't think there's a world that we could imagine whereby
- 01:34:13
- God could bring more glory to himself than a world that has the death and resurrection of the incarnate
- 01:34:24
- Son of Jesus Christ. There is no world we can imagine whereby
- 01:34:29
- God could glorify himself more than in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
- 01:34:35
- In becoming the incarnate Son of God, dying upon a cross and rising again from the dead to show that he has defeated all the powers of evil and will redeem his creatures that he has chosen and ultimately redeem the creation itself.
- 01:34:57
- Amen. We have Glenn in West Sayville, Long Island, who has a question for you.
- 01:35:04
- And Glenn wants to know, when Christians are trying to help others in the midst of such a tragedy like you've experienced in your area, especially when they are trying to help people with physical needs, how far do we go in cooperating with people who advocate other religions?
- 01:35:26
- And what kind of boundaries can we cross? And is there any precautions and preparatory things we should do beforehand with these people who are well -meaning, who want to join us in our efforts, but they do not believe in the gospel and may have religions totally contrary to the gospel?
- 01:35:47
- They might even be atheists. Yeah, that's a kind of a complex question, but I don't think there's anything in Scripture that would suggest that we cannot participate in a civil good.
- 01:36:08
- What do I mean by that? God ordained certain institutions to bring about good in the world.
- 01:36:16
- For example, we could think of marriage. Marriage is not an institution that's only for Christians.
- 01:36:23
- Marriage is an institution God ordained for all of humanity. It's a good that benefits all of humanity.
- 01:36:33
- And so I think there are instances in which we, you know, when we set up nations that are based on, hopefully, laws that are moral and good and right and true, that that kind of setup has a benefit for all people, whether they're
- 01:36:52
- Christians or not. And we ought to pray for societies that are rooted in the desire to uphold moral good and righteousness and truth and so forth, because it has a civic benefit.
- 01:37:08
- It has a benefit for the whole community of the people. And so when a tragedy like this happens,
- 01:37:15
- I don't mind standing next to somebody who's not a believer. There are far more unbelievers that have gone in and saved lives and have helped people restore their homes and recover their property than there have been
- 01:37:31
- Christians, you know, just by virtue of the fact that there are more unbelievers in the world than there are believers, and there are more unbelievers in our community than there are believers.
- 01:37:41
- And yet both unbelievers and believers alike have been seeking to accomplish many of the same things and trying to help recover bodies, trying to help recover people's homes, trying to help them get back on their feet.
- 01:37:56
- That's a civic good. And I see no problem with Christians joining with non -Christians, and it gives us an opportunity to present the gospel.
- 01:38:05
- Now, am I going to go out of my way to support an organization that may be explicitly non -Christian and have specifically non -Christian ideology?
- 01:38:17
- No, probably not. That's why we support Samaritan's Purse, which is an explicitly
- 01:38:22
- Christian organization. Don't agree with all of their theology, as I mentioned before. But when it comes to responding to tragedies like this, we can stand hand -in -hand with other brothers and sisters in Christ, though we may not agree with all their theology.
- 01:38:38
- Yeah, I'm reminded by this answer you gave of the fact that I think there are very few people alive, if any, who would be sitting at the bedside of somebody in the hospital who has a deadly illness or they're recovering from a near -fatal injury, or perhaps they're even on their deathbed.
- 01:39:08
- And as doctors and nurses come in and out to seek to meet the needs of this patient, chasing these people out of the room and saying,
- 01:39:22
- Wait a minute, I've got to meet you out in the hall and go over what your doctrinal positions are and see if you line up with the 1689
- 01:39:33
- London Baptist Confession of Faith or the Westchester Confession of Faith or what have you.
- 01:39:39
- Nobody's going to do that. And this is very much exactly like what you're talking about.
- 01:39:48
- In fact, every time, or nearly every time, we vote during an election cycle, there are very few times when everyone that we are voting for can be considered a genuine, regenerate,
- 01:40:07
- Bible -believing Christian. And yet we're participating in the civic realm and in the governing of our nation by participating with those that aren't believers and even voting for them if we think that they are the best that is available.
- 01:40:30
- Yes. You know, I think another perspective on this, when we experience tragedies like this and everyone is hurting,
- 01:40:41
- Christians and non -Christians alike, there's something about that that speaks to the depth of our humanity in terms of all creatures being created in the image of God.
- 01:40:54
- And so my non -Christian neighbor is equally created in the image of God as I am as a believer, and the tragedies that we've experienced in this community affect us equally in many respects, not entirely.
- 01:41:14
- But because there is that shared humanity of being creatures made in the image of God, we hurt.
- 01:41:24
- We suffer from the pain of natural disasters in a cursed world.
- 01:41:32
- The difference is that as a Christian, it gives me an opportunity to come alongside my fellow human being who's created in the image of God and hopefully use that tragedy as an opportunity for the gospel, as an opportunity to give the kinds of explanations that we're talking about today to help people frame the situation.
- 01:41:58
- Because ultimately, everyone, they are related to the God of the universe, but they have suppressed him in various ways through their sinful desires and lives and whatnot.
- 01:42:14
- But these tragedies give us a wide open door to present the gospel because people are much more willing to talk about these things than when life seems to be normal.
- 01:42:32
- And we have to go to our final break right now. Don't go away because we're going to be right back with the conclusion of our program after these messages from our sponsors.
- 01:42:49
- This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
- 01:42:56
- Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially.
- 01:43:05
- Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers who strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our
- 01:43:17
- Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
- 01:43:24
- If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
- 01:43:37
- Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
- 01:43:47
- Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
- 01:43:55
- This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign
- 01:44:01
- Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.
- 01:44:10
- Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.
- 01:44:17
- Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider
- 01:44:23
- Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
- 01:44:32
- Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the
- 01:44:39
- Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.
- 01:44:44
- This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.
- 01:44:50
- Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
- 01:44:57
- I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
- 01:45:03
- Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
- 01:45:11
- I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,
- 01:45:19
- where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. I'm Dr.
- 01:45:31
- Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
- 01:45:40
- Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the
- 01:45:50
- Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.
- 01:45:56
- It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.
- 01:46:08
- Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
- 01:46:19
- For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.
- 01:46:27
- For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,
- 01:46:35
- heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr.
- 01:46:44
- Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. When Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
- 01:47:00
- New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
- 01:47:08
- Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
- 01:47:14
- I'm Pastor Nate Pikowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the
- 01:47:19
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the
- 01:47:28
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the
- 01:47:37
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the
- 01:47:44
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the
- 01:47:52
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the
- 01:48:00
- NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of The Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the
- 01:48:08
- NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
- 01:48:14
- Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?
- 01:48:20
- Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio.
- 01:48:29
- Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.
- 01:48:50
- James White here of Alpha and Omega Ministries announcing that this September I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend
- 01:48:59
- Chris Arnzen has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th at 11 a .m.,
- 01:49:04
- I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pre -Pastors
- 01:49:10
- Luncheon at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville. Then on Sunday, September 21st at 1 .30
- 01:49:18
- p .m., I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the
- 01:49:23
- Bible is the Authentic and Inherent Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events.
- 01:49:29
- For more details on the Pre -Pastors Luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com, that's ironsharpensironradio .com.
- 01:49:38
- For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, visit trbccarlisle .org,
- 01:49:46
- that's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.
- 01:49:55
- And folks, please never forget that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &
- 01:50:01
- Associates. If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the
- 01:50:09
- United States, call my longtime friend, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, a man whose friendship
- 01:50:16
- I've treasured since the early 1990s. Call him at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,
- 01:50:27
- 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Please make sure you tell Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm from Chris Aronson on Ironsharpensironradio.
- 01:50:37
- We're now back with Scott Christensen, and we have a question from—I was just looking at it moments ago—we have
- 01:50:51
- Phoenix in Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina.
- 01:51:00
- And Phoenix wants to know, shouldn't we Christians be very careful never to assign motives to God for these kinds of things, as if we know the mind of God?
- 01:51:12
- In the past, there have been very famous professing Christians and televangelists who have said that the reason why
- 01:51:20
- God brought destruction into a certain area was because of the high population of homosexuals, and we could go on and on with reasons such as this.
- 01:51:29
- But we don't know why God does certain things. Should we ever say things like this?
- 01:51:36
- That's a very good question, and I agree with the assumption of that question, that no, we should not.
- 01:51:46
- As we saw in the case of Job, God never gave Job a reason for why he chose to bring affliction upon him.
- 01:51:55
- It certainly wasn't because of his sin, because God is very manifestly exalting
- 01:52:02
- Job as an example of a blameless and righteous man. And so it couldn't have been that Job sinned in some way and God brought about the calamities that befell him for that reason.
- 01:52:16
- So no, we cannot presume to know specific motives that God has for any instance of calamity or anything that he might do, other than the broad point that I made earlier, that whatever
- 01:52:33
- God's motives, whatever God's purposes, we know that they are all good and that they have ultimately the intention of bringing glory to himself.
- 01:52:46
- And so we may not know specifically what his motives are, what his purposes are, what he's intending to do, but we know that it is all good.
- 01:52:55
- Amen. Yeah, I remember decades ago, the late Pat Robertson was talking about some kind of a tragedy, natural disaster, and he was saying that it was because of homosexuality that God did this.
- 01:53:12
- And I remember pastors I knew saying, wait a minute, my church was destroyed in that calamity.
- 01:53:20
- You know, we're not homosexuals. So I think that, you know, people, even the best of Christians, and I'm not saying that Pat Robertson was the best
- 01:53:28
- Christian, but even the best of Christians can say stupid things. And God sometimes does tell us,
- 01:53:35
- I mean, he told us why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. He told us why he brought the global flood, but he doesn't always tell us.
- 01:53:45
- He didn't tell us about the Tower of Siloam victims. That's right. That's right. Well, I want to make sure that you summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this very important topic.
- 01:54:00
- And, of course, when you're finished, I will remind our listeners of the website that you have put in place for people who want to help your relief efforts.
- 01:54:12
- Yeah, I would just simply say that the greatest peace, the greatest joy, the greatest sense of purpose and meaning and value as a human being is to see that God is indeed all good.
- 01:54:35
- He is omnibenevolent. He is omnipotent. He is all sovereign.
- 01:54:41
- And he calls us to himself because of the love that he pours out, the grace that he pours out upon us that we did not deserve and did nothing to invoke his choosing of us.
- 01:54:59
- There's nothing we can do to invite that.
- 01:55:04
- It is simply his sovereign grace and freedom. And when we bask in the fullness of that reality, which takes a lifetime really to comprehend, it is where we find our deepest satisfaction.
- 01:55:22
- You know, the Westminster Shorter Catechism says the chief end of man is to glorify
- 01:55:30
- God and enjoy him forever. And I believe that when
- 01:55:36
- God is most glorified, we experience the greatest joy in our lives.
- 01:55:44
- Amen. And once again, the website where you can support the relief efforts of Kerrville Bible Church, who are cooperating with Samaritan's Purse, is kerrvillebiblechurch .org
- 01:56:02
- forward slash flood dash relief, kerrvillebiblechurch .org
- 01:56:09
- forward slash flood dash relief. And Kerrville is spelled
- 01:56:14
- K -E -R -R -V -I -L -L -E, biblechurch .org forward slash flood dash relief.
- 01:56:21
- Now, as far as all of the books that you've written, you've written three of them so far. Where can our listeners get a hold of these books?
- 01:56:31
- Yeah, I recommend Reformation Heritage Books, the website of Joe Beeke and his ministry.
- 01:56:40
- Typically, they have the best prices on my books. I don't know about other
- 01:56:46
- Reformed or Christian websites, but that's the best place.
- 01:56:52
- You can get them at Westminster Bookstore as well. But yeah, I always recommend
- 01:56:57
- Reformation Heritage Books, the ministry of Joel R. Beeke. And Joel's been a friend of mine for decades and known him since the early 90s.
- 01:57:11
- And CVBBS .com, you might want to compare prices. CVBBS .com,
- 01:57:17
- who sponsors this program, that would not in any way harm Reformation Heritage Books, Dr.
- 01:57:25
- Beeke's book publishing ministry, because CVBBS .com will be purchasing the books from them, so they will not be harmed in any way.
- 01:57:36
- And if you mention Iron Trip and Zion Radio, when you go to CVBBS .com and mention
- 01:57:42
- Iron Trip and Zion Radio, you'll be helping us because they provide for us valuable support.
- 01:57:48
- And do you have any personal website other than the one connected to Kerrville Bible Church?
- 01:57:56
- Not any one that is active at present. Yeah, I can't point anyone to—I had an old blog, but I haven't written on that for quite a number of years.
- 01:58:13
- Okay. Well, I want to remind our listeners, please, if you can, also help us out here at Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
- 01:58:22
- The giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, as I've said before, plummeted during the unconstitutional mandates imposed upon our citizens, both from the federal and local governments.
- 01:58:41
- And ever since that occurred, the giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio plummeted, literally, and has never bounced back, even though these mandates have been removed.
- 01:58:54
- I don't know what the correlation or connection is to those things, but we really need your help, folks.
- 01:59:01
- So if you really love the show and you are blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, please go to IronTripandZionRadio .com,
- 01:59:11
- click support, then click, click to donate now. That's IronTripandZionRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.
- 01:59:18
- Don't forget to mark on your calendars that on August 1st, which is a Friday, I'm having a special tribute with Phil Johnson of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.
- 01:59:31
- We're having a special tribute in loving memory of John MacArthur on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and we'll be joined by Dr.
- 01:59:39
- Doug McMasters, who used to be the director of pastoral correspondence for Grace to You.
- 01:59:46
- He's now pastoring New Hyde Park Baptist Church. But I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater