Oct 29, 2026 Show with John Huffman on “The Importance of a Culture Having Good Heroes”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 29th day of October 2026.

Before I introduce to you my guest for the day and our theme, I want to remind all of you to continue to pray for Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III. Dr. Moorcraft is a very dear friend of mine, a frequent guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and the church where he pastors, Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, is one of the very largest financial supporters of this program, even though it is a small congregation.

And Dr. Moorcraft is back in the hospital. He has been suffering with a fever. He has the possibility of sepsis, I understand, and other excruciatingly painful ailments that are dangerous for men in his 80s like Dr. Moorcraft is.

And so please pray that he returns home from, I believe he is being transported to physical rehab now. And please pray that he returns home soon, back to his pulpit soon, back as a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio soon.

And today's guest, who is a personal friend of Dr. Moorcraft, may even have some more updates for us, but please continue to pray for Dr. Moorcraft. And also I want to remind all men in ministry leadership, you are all invited to the next free, biannual Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon on Thursday, May the 6th, 2027 at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

We are featuring for the very first time ever as our keynote speaker, Pouyan Marshahi. Pastor Pouyan is an Iranian-born convert out of the Zoroastrian religion into biblical Christianity, and he now pastors Providence Baptist Chapel in Cheltenham, England, which is a Reformed Baptist congregation.

It's absolutely free of charge, as always. Not only is your admission free and your lunch free, but every man who attends will receive a heavy sack and possibly two heavy sacks of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by generous Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom.

If you are a man in ministry leadership and would like to register for this free event, and believe me, I don't think it's too early to do so because so often people tell me that they wish they had heard about the luncheon sooner because they've already made plans.

If you reserve this date on your calendar, it may prevent you, barring an emergency, of course, from double booking your day and preventing you from being with us. So mark it down on your calendars now, Thursday, May 6, 2027.

And if you'd like to register, send your emails to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com, and give us your full name, the full name of your church or parachurch ministry and its location, and the number of men who will be joining you.

And put Pastors Luncheon 2027 in the subject line. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, and put Pastors Luncheon 2027 in the subject line. Well, today, as I already mentioned, we have, as a first-time guest, a close personal friend of the aforementioned Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, who has been providing pulpit supply for Dr. Moorcraft.

And it was Dr. Moorcraft that strongly urged me to contact John Huffman, our guest today, to replace him because Dr. Moorcraft was supposed to be my guest today. He was originally scheduled to be here with us and obviously cannot be here because he is in the hospital and being transferred to a physical rehab facility.

But John is pastor of Calvary Baptist Church of Belleville, Illinois. He is a historian, a teacher, an author, and tour guide specializing in giving first-person living history portrayals of godly heroes of history.

And today, John Huffman and I are going to be addressing the importance of a culture having good heroes. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, John Huffman.

Well, thank you. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate that introduction, and I certainly like you and praying for the Moorcrafts. And it's a privilege here to fill Dr. Moorcraft's shoes. He's been a—speaking of heroes, Pastor Moorcraft has been a hero of mine for a long time, and I'm grateful.

I've got some of his books here on my bookshelf, and I'm very grateful for his influence in my life. And I am happy to report that I got a text from Mrs. Moorcraft last night that he is doing some better, and she is very grateful for prayers of God's people all across the world that are praying for Pastor Moorcraft.

So that's good news to all you listeners.

Praise God. But I'm assuming he's still in the hospital, however, right?

I heard that he was possibly going to be released yesterday or today and going then to the rehab facility, though he's not home yet. But hopefully at that intermediate step. And I've not got an update today, but that was from yesterday.

And she said he is noticeably better, and they're very grateful for prayers of all of God's people.

And by the way, it just occurred to me that the reason I am having as my keynote speaker for the Spring 2027 Iron Trip and Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Pouyanne Mershahi, it was Dr. Moorcraft who urged me to interview Pastor Pouyanne, which I have done several times already.

And it was those interviews that led me to invite him to be the keynote speaker at one of my luncheons. And Pouyanne Mershahi has translated Dr. Moorcraft's sermons, many of them, into the Farsi language and other great men of God as well.

Pouyanne is a great man, and I'm grateful for what the Lord is using him to do, not only in England where he is, but also among the Farsi people that he truly has a heart for. And I'm so glad that Pastor Moorcraft's works will be read in that language there.

Yes. I'm not 100 sure if they're being translated in a written form or an audible form. Audio, yes. It could be both, it could be one or the other, I'm not sure. And by the way, also, in case our listeners are saying to themselves, you know, that name Huffman sounds familiar, that's because on November 26th, almost a year ago of 2025, Mary Huffman, the sister of my guest today, was a guest along with Colonel John Idesmo on Iron Trubman's Iron Radio to discuss the theme, Who Really Were the Pilgrims?

And if you want to look that up, just type in the last name Huffman, H-U-F-F-M-A-N, and Mary's interview will come up. And by the way, you can tell Mary that I know I've got to get her back on the program at some point.

She is the only guest I can think of who was a first-time guest who I completely forgot to ask to provide for my listeners a salvation testimony, which is a custom of mine. I think it completely slipped my mind that day that I interviewed Colonel Idesmo and Mary.

So I've got to make up for that and have Mary give us her salvation testimony.

That's good. Well, she'll be glad to hear from you. And she has a love for the Pilgrims, as I do, and she was a big part of the reintroduction of the Pilgrim Psalter. She and Colonel Idesmo probably talked about that that day that they were with you a year ago.

Yes. And she also, years ago, I'm almost certain she provided a number of free books that she brought into print, likely somehow connected to the Psalter, that we gave away at the pastor's luncheon, one of the past pastor's luncheons.

That's good. But a very sweet and godly lady, as I recall. But tell us...

She's married now. Oh, okay. She's married now, and since you interviewed her, she's now married to a godly young man named Jonathan, and they are serving the Lord together.

And is it because Jonathan heard her interviewed on my show and then immediately proposed to her? You may as well take the credit, yes. I take credit for a lot of things that I don't deserve credit for.

But anyway, thankfully, not my salvation. That's right. Only one gets the credit for that. That's right. Well, John, please let our listeners know something about Calvary Baptist Church of Bellevue, Illinois.

Yes, sir. Well, it's a church where my father and I serve together, and it's a great joy to serve alongside my father. We have a small congregation near a military facility, and Daddy has been pastor of that church ever since leaving the Air Force to enter the Lord's work there.

And he and I have grown and matured there together, and serving with him has given me, I'm grateful for it, the opportunity to travel and speak and do some of the living history demonstrations that I do around the country and at homeschool conferences, on tours around at historic sites.

I'll be going to Plymouth in a few weeks, Plymouth, Massachusetts, with landmark events. I recently got back from Williamsburg, Virginia, where I was part of their history symposium. Oh, great.

Yes. Now, I believe, is Bill Potter involved in landmark events?

Absolutely. That's what I thought. Bill Potter is a dear friend of mine and a mentor, and he and I were together speaking on the Revolutionary War about three weeks ago in Williamsburg, Virginia. And Kevin Turley and Bill Potter have become men that I look up to and am privileged from time to time to get to serve alongside.

And if anybody listening wants to hear my interview, I think I only had one interview with Bill Potter, but I could be wrong. Just type in Bill Potter, and that interview link will come up, irontrippinzironradio .com, and type in Bill Potter in the search engine.

And do you know also Paul Jaly of the Plymouth Rock Foundation?

Yes, sir. I'm actually on the board of the Plymouth Rock Foundation. Okay, great. So he and I served together there, and in two weeks, I'll be with Paul Jaly there in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and there's going to be a...

Bill Potter will be there as well. We'll be giving a tour of the Plymouth area. Leo Martin, Cardinal Itemo will be there. And so if any of your listeners are in the New England area, this year, they're doing a...instead of a typical bus tour, they are doing a car tour, which makes it much more affordable, gives families flexibility to pop in and out, and you can go to landmarkevents .org and see that itinerary.

Tremendous opportunity to walk where the Pilgrims walked. We're going to go to Cape Cod, First Encounter Beach, Ashby Meeting House, and landmarkevents .org. There's still plenty of room on this tour that'll take place the week before Thanksgiving.

So come and join us in Massachusetts.

And let me...I know that maybe I'm annoying some of my listeners, but if you'd like to hear an interview that I conducted with Paul Jaly, which is spelt, by the way, J-E-H-L-E. I had a fascinating interview with Paul on the Salem Witch Trials, and he was specifically replying to Bill O 'Reilly's book, Killing the Witches, which is filled with historic fallacies.

And Bill O 'Reilly despises biblical Christianity. He, for years, has mocked Bible-believing Christianity and the Christians who believe in that Bible. It's interesting how leftists became enemies of Bill O 'Reilly when he always was rather liberal, and I think he became more associated with conservative media just because so many leftists hate him for some reason.

But it has nothing to do with him being some kind of an arch-conservative, I can tell you. But Paul Jaly did a masterful job giving us the true story of the Salem Witch Trials. And if you type in J-E-H-L-E, that interview will come up as well.

That was from two years ago, January 23, 2024. So, can you tell us a little bit more about Calvary Baptist Church there in Belleville, Illinois? What's the theological position of the church?

Well, we're a small Reformed Baptist church, and Daddy and I came to that conclusion not in one step, but by the Lord's grace leading us step-by-step. And, certainly, Pastor Moorcraft was a deep influence on us, endearing my formative days, introducing us to good books, and pointing out the godly heritage that we have.

And now it's a joy to serve Daddy and I there together. We have a small church. It rotates in and out a lot because of the military background of many of the people here. So that's a disadvantage. We have a family for three years, and then they're gone.

But it's also a blessing because we have friends now all over the country, all over the world, that when we travel, we can connect with. Friendships built or maintained over the years. It's been a joy to know godly men that are still serving in our country's armed services and are standing fast for the Lord's work wherever they are sent.

Yes, the church where I'm a member, Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. We are near the United States Army War College in Carlisle, PA. And we have two families from that war college.

We're all falling in love with these families, but we have the apprehension of knowing that they're only there in Carlisle for a year. And unless they come back for other learning or teaching responsibilities at the war college, we may not see them again after a year.

But we've gone to quickly love these folks. So we know what that's like. And I know that you do not yet have a church website, but you do have a website, however, that you and your wife operate. What is that website?

That's right. Our website is JKLegacyStories. My dear wife is named Katie. JKLegacyStories .com. And we have posted there some of the history portrayals that I do. And opportunities for folks to come and see.

And a little sample of what I do in first person, bringing history to classrooms, to churches, to events. Tomorrow I've got one where I'll be dressed up as Governor William Bradford. Huh. With my matchlock and with my wool doublet.

And I'll be talking at a Christian school in our area to their chapel service, portraying Governor Bradford and telling the story of the voyage, his boyhood, and the voyage over, and that first year of difficulty losing his wife on the Mayflower.

So I'll be doing that tomorrow. Earlier this week I spoke to the Daughters of the American Revolution. Wow. George Rogers Clark, who was an early American hero here in our part of the country. He led an expedition from Virginia through Kentucky to capture a few French, now English, forts along the Mississippi River, Kaskaskia and Cahokia.

And he was called the conqueror of the Northwest. So he's another character I portray. And our website highlights those as well as some of the other things that we do and try to pass along our godly heritage to the next generation by telling God's stories and exalting heroes from our history.

Yes, I've got to find the name and contact information of a brother who does the same thing that you do, with the exception of he seems to focus his theatrical portrayals on John Wesley. And believe it or not, this Reformed Baptist here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, I actually hosted one of his theatrical stage presentations of John Wesley, which he did masterfully without notes or cue cards, just from memory.

And he does an amazing job. I do not know if he is still with us on this side of heaven, but when I do a little research, perhaps I can find out and confirm whether or not he is still among the living, at least here on Earth, and get back to you with that information.

I would like to know that and hear his presentation. I have never done John Wesley.

I have done George Whitfield. Oh, what a great idea to have you and him debate each other.

We could have a nice debate, right? Here in costume, preaching tabs and black robe. Yes. Oh, that would be fantastic.

I actually told the creators of the really extraordinary movie, A Great Awakening, I had the great privilege and honor and joy to interview the lead actor in that movie, Jonathan Blair, who portrayed George Whitfield, and the director of the movie, Jonathan Enk, from Sight and Sound Productions.

They were on the program along with my friend Kurt M. Smith, who is a pastor and Whitfield biographer. I told him, Jonathan Blair and his director, that they should do a sequel to that movie that gets deeply involved in the theological rivalry between Whitfield and Wesley, which you never saw in that movie.

I'm not even sure if these two brothers involved in the movie even knew that. They may have, but I'm not certain about that. They didn't enthusiastically embrace my idea, so it will probably never happen.

Well, we have, as I've informed you before the show, we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, where whenever we have a first-time guest, except for when your sister was on, and I completely forgot to have her do this, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised and the kinds of providential circumstances our Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

So let's hear your story.

Yes, sir. Well, for me, the story is relatively simple, and I'm grateful that I grew up in a Christian home. My father and my mother, both godly, faithful believers, that from as early as I can remember, led me to the throne of grace, taught me to love the Lord, to memorize his word.

My father was converted while he was a student, a cadet, at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, under the influence of godly men and fellow classmates.

By the way, I visited that academy in the 1980s with my precious late wife when we were visiting friends in Colorado.

We visited that academy. Yes, sir. Well, there was really, at daddy's time, there was really a revival going on there at the academy, and daddy entered the academy, certainly an honorable man. He grew up in a good home, but had no saving faith at the time, and it was while he was there that the Lord, by his grace, brought daddy to conviction of sin and repentance.

And then mama grew up in a Christian home, so from the earliest days of my childhood, daddy and mama read us the scriptures, brought us faithfully to church, and it was when I was six years old that I came to faith in Christ and trusted in the Lord as my savior and redeemer, my master.

As many Christian young people that grow up in a home like mine, as I became older, as I looked into my own heart and saw that I was yet a sinner, I had some doubts of my own reality, the reality of the profession I had made as a boy.

And so I took those to my father and my mother, and daddy did something very wise. He pointed me to the same Christ that Thomas was pointed to when Thomas doubted and said, John, it's not your belief, it's not the strength of your conviction, it's the strength of Christ's own faithfulness.

And that satisfied my doubt when I was 12, 13 years old, that it was not how much I believed or when I believed or really what I believed or prayed, but as Paul said, I know whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

So by God's grace, Chris, I came to the Lord at an early age and have tried to serve him with all my heart ever since. Praise God.

I'm grateful for God being here. Now you've got to tell us about how your father and you came to discover and embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace, also known as Reformed theology. And I am hoping to hear you say it's because you heard Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

Well, the influence of many of the men that you love and interview, Chris, and certainly Banner of Truth, who's right there in Carlisle. That's right. As well as Pastor Moorcraft. And one key influence who's no longer with us on earth, but is with the Lord in his glory is Pastor Lloyd Sprinkle.

Oh, yeah. His book, Sprinkle Publication.

And guess what, folks? Lloyd Sprinkle was a Baptist, not a Presbyterian.

Pastor Moorcraft always teased him about that, whenever the two of them were together. How can you, Lloyd, be a Baptist when your last name is what it is? So Pastor Sprinkle became a real influence in my life when I was a teenager and Daddy, too.

We met him and had the privilege to go to his church, Providence Baptist Church in Harrisonburg, Virginia. And for several years, I would travel around as a teenager and then in my young 20s to conferences bringing his books.

And I would have a table of Sprinkle Publications. And through those books, I was introduced and Daddy was introduced to the Reformed faith and the value of the Reformation, the importance of it. And all that began earlier than our relationship with Pastor Sprinkle.

Daddy mostly came to that conviction through the Word of God itself in the book of Ephesians. He was expositing Ephesians 1 and 2 and the sovereignty of God. And his prime moving in salvation is very clearly in the record of Scripture itself without any human additions.

But by God's grace, those books that Pastor Sprinkle had gotten to print, my interest in church history drew me to study the Reformers, their writings, their lives behind the Lord's work in their lives and the manifestations of it in their character, their faith, their legacy, all of those influences we are deeply, deeply grateful for.

And I'll never forget some of the conversations that I had as a young man with my father involved too, with men like Lloyd Sprinkle, Joe Morecraft, and others that reading the works of R .J. Rush Dooney as well was a big influence in my life, and I'm grateful for it.

And to show you how many years Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio has been treating over 100 men to lunch twice a year for my biannual pastor's luncheons, there were a number of years where Sprinkle Publishing was donating books to give away to the pastors at least 100 of a particular title that I chose from their catalog.

And I do not think that they are still in operation after Lloyd went home to be with the Lord. I know it continued for a little while after that, but am I right that it doesn't exist anymore?

Yes, well, you can still find many of their titles. Joel Beeky and his work up in Michigan took over and bought a lot of those volumes. And so if you go to Reformation Heritage Books, you can find the tab Sprinkle Publications and find many of their books.

Now, Joel Beeky did not pick up a lot of the... The Baptists. Some of the Baptist things he did not pick up, I will say that, as well as some of the Confederate things that were a favorite of Pastor Sprinkles.

But those are still available too in various places.

Yeah, and he really did a wonderful job with the binding. I don't think he had any softcover books, did he? They were all hardback from my memory.

Early on, he tried a couple of softbacks, but he didn't like them. Nobody liked them. So he wanted to pass on books that would last for generations. And so that's what he specialized in, the highest quality, acid-free paper.

If you got them on your bookshelf, they'll still be there for your children's children.

Amen. Well, when we return from our first commercial break, we are going to actually enter into the theme of the day, the importance of a culture having good heroes. If you would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And please remember, folks, that our advertisers are what keep Iron Trip and Zion Radio on the air.

So please pay attention when you hear the ads. We'll be right back.

I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord and his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune God.

We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ. In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every Sunday.

We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org. That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reformed Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

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Welcome back, and if you just tuned us in, my guest today is John Huffman, pastor of Calvary Baptist Church of Belleville, Illinois. He's a historian, a teacher, an author, and tour guide, specializing in giving first-person living history portrayals of godly heroes of history.

And today we are addressing the importance of a culture having good heroes. If you have a question for John, submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Biblical Patterns for Honoring Imperfect Heroes

If you live outside of the USA. John, as you know, the church has had a tendency to err greatly in the area of heroes in two opposite directions. You have people who turn their heroes into idols. Even good, godly, doctrinally sound, Reformed Christians have unconsciously turned John Calvin or other of their heroes of history into idols.

There have been people who have based their theological and doctrinal beliefs entirely because of the fact that their heroes believe these things, and they really don't believe them because they have been convinced by Scripture.

So there is that danger that exists even now in the 21st century. And then on the other opposite end of the spectrum, you have folks who say, I don't need heroes, I don't need to read books by men either from the past or the present that aren't in the 66 books of the canon of the Bible.

And there is an arrogance there because they think very highly of their own intellect and think that they are not in the need of having great teachers that have, especially those from the past that have standed the test of time and have been of an abundant help to transform the thinking and lives of Christians and even lead the lost to salvation for centuries.

So you have these two competing errors on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Tell us about why you believe so strongly in the need for a culture to have good heroes and how to do that, how to adopt good heroes in a balanced way that doesn't violate either of those two heresies on either side.

Well, good, Chris. I thank you for the opportunity to talk about this. It is a crucial question in our day and as you very well articulated the two opposite extremes that are both so damaging. One is to, you can call it hagiography, to make a saint out of someone and follow them blindly and adopt a position only because a hero adopted it, to gloss over a man's failures and to put him on a pedestal in an unhealthy way.

And then the opposite extreme, which is to pick apart and vilify and bring down, as certainly our culture is doing today, godly men that ought to be admired and loved and followed. And so, for example, as I seek to honor heroes and the work that I specifically do in portraying godly men, I think, Chris, that we have to be so careful to take the Bible itself as our pattern in the way that God honors the heroes of Scripture.

For truly, the Bible itself, I would say, I did the mathematical calculation one time, about three quarters, three out of four parts of the Scripture, if you just take verse content, three quarters of the Bible is history and biography.

And so we have a wealth of information in the Scripture, a wealth of examples of how the Lord treats heroes, heroes like David, who certainly had their flaws, and yet consistently God holds David up as a man to be admired and loved, a hero to be honored, and a man truly after God's own heart.

I think that Hebrews chapter 11 is an example of how we are to honor our heroes. By faith Abraham acted, he obeyed, he went out not knowing where he went. By faith Moses forsook Egypt not fearing the wrath of the king.

And then the Lord goes on in that chapter to list some that probably wouldn't be on our top of the list of heroes. What shall time, what shall I say yet? For time would fail to tell of Gideon and of Jephthah and Samson and Barak.

Many of these would not be our first choice for a hero, and yet God holds up without apology men like Gideon for our emulation in those ways that we can't admire him, certainly. And here's a lesson for our children too.

When a man like Gideon, who God calls without reservation a mighty man of valor, when Gideon got proud and allowed his heart to be lifted up and made the ephod, then the book of Judges records his downfall.

And so, Chris, to be honest with these men, to treat their failures as well as their successes with honesty, showing our children exactly the way God holds these men up, lessons to be learned, character qualities to be admired, and also flaws to be avoided.

I think we can honestly do that in a way that honors the Lord's work in the lives of these heroes. And the Bible is a prime example.

How a Culture's Heroes Shape Its Character

What do you think, as far as a culture, what are the ramifications, for instance, if a culture does not cultivate the adoption of good heroes? I mean, I can think of already some of the horrific results of countries that adopted heroes that were communists and fascists and so on.

And the populace basically carried through with that heroic or that adoration of heroes, I should say, to the point where members of that society were brutalized and murdered on many occasions. But tell us your thoughts on that whole concept of a culture needing to adopt good heroes.