God as Transcendent or Immanent, or Both?

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2 verse 5 where the

Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.�

In short, if you like smooth, watered down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the

Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Pastor Steve Cooley, Mr. Tuesday Guy, you�re here, you�re in the house.

I am here. Thanks for having me. Now I think as we play this today, it�s not going to go out on V &E because I think we�re going to be off V &E.

So, this is only for those Situation Room members. They finally gave us the boot. It took a while, but they came to their senses.

Not true, not true, not true. When I was at Branson, Missouri, or in Branson, Missouri, at the

Oak Ridge Boys Theater, several people came up and said, �Where�s Pastor Steve ?� But they said, �Where�s

Tuesday Guy ?� I did not have the shirt that one of our listeners sent to me, �Where�s

Tuesday Guy ?� I thought about changing my name, just having it legally changed. Well, it�s like that guy who tried to change his name to Jesus, and so the judge wouldn�t let him, and so he named himself

I Am or something like that. See, I�m thinking Steve Tuesday. It would be perfect, right?

That almost reminds me of a bionic kind of man, Steve Tuesday, Jack Monday, remember

Jack Lord? Yes, I do. Hawaii Five -0. What�s your favorite part about him? I don�t know.

I really hardly ever watch the show, except for when he said, �Book�em, Dan -o My most flamboyantly positive emails that I receive are about the

Tuesday shows. And there are a couple of emails that I receive that I don�t understand. And the most low, lambastic, harsh, critical emails that I receive are about the

Tuesday shows. Yeah, but I send those. Well, you have one of those special email deals.

Yeah, it's a fake email. Oh, a randomizer. Uh -huh, all right. A guy that used to attend the

Bible study that you and I attended in North Hollywood on Carpenter Street back in the day in the early 90s, he was a businessman, and he told me he got this voice -changing machine for his alter ego making business deals and stuff, and wanted to know what

I thought of that. Mm, yeah, I remember that guy. That was before he was arrested. Yeah. Not for that, but for something worse.

Something way worse. I know, so here's the first letter. Dear Pastor Mike and Tuesday Guy, and you know what,

Steve? I think I read this letter on a different show, because now it's coming back to me, but I want your input on it.

Okay. Okay? That's the thing. I'll try to be critical. Thank you for your radio show. I listen via podcast to commute, back and forth work, et cetera.

Young, born -again Christian, five years old in the faith. I appreciate your ministry. Now, here's the question. Recently, you said something like,

Christ's work was not really about us. Our salvation was more a side effect.

I probably inadvertently twisted your words. Sorry about that. You've said other things. Lloyd -Jones says the

Bible is essentially about our relationship with God. And then he basically says, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

Is the Bible's focus about our salvation? Is it about the glory of God? Please explain. Yours in Christ, Ben.

Ben? Ben Mercedes. Oh, okay. We pay him to do other things.

Yeah, you know, even as you read that, I mean, that's kind of what I say about John 17, you know, that we're sort of a side effect.

Because when you read Jesus' high priestly prayer, and he's praying to the

Father, you get the idea that really, it's not about us. I know that's shocking and disappointing to a lot of people, but it's not about us.

You know, I mean, it's like that song, I'm going to go a little far afield here, where it says, you know, you took the fall and thought of me above all.

Well, no, he didn't. When Jesus, Jesus did think of, you know, us, and he did do it for us, but ultimately, why did he go to the cross?

To please the Father, to glorify the Father. These are the things that he was concerned with. And so, yeah,

I would say that we're more like a side effect, a side, a footnote. I mean, we're not really a footnote.

I wouldn't say that, but we are, we are definitely not the center of the

Bible. You know, the glory of God definitely is. Maybe we could put it this way. Tell me if you agree,

Pastor Steve. I probably will. The focus primarily upon the effects of redemption reflect the

Father's glory versus our salvation. In other words, or that is to say,

I think of Ephesians chapter one, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. He's the one who is to be blessed.

And then it does say who has blessed us in Christ Jesus. And so, if we say secondary and primary, the primary focus is the glory of God and redemption.

And secondarily, and we're thankful, of course, and it's not insignificant, but then the

Father is honored as the Son loves and rescues the bride. I think that's right.

And I think one of the reasons why we tend to stress, you know, the glory of God and that kind of thing is not only

A, because the scripture does, but I think so many churches are just so focused on me, you know, and you and us and, and, you know,

Jesus and the glory of God are the afterthoughts there, you know, and it's more about what, hey, what do we get out of this whole deal?

See, and that has been accelerated by books such as Crazy Love. I'm not going to say

Francis Chan's book is completely chock full of error of every, you know, size and shape and nothing's true in the book.

I mean, I would not say that. But it seems to me that it's flipped around wrongly and you get the impression as you go through it, the secondary things have become primary.

Pete Well, like the Purpose Driven Life where he, what's his name? Steve Rick Warren. Pete Rick Warren, you know, very plainly says that it's not about you and then spends a couple hundred pages talking about why it's about you, you know?

And I'm like, okay, well, it either is about me or it's not, you know? Pete Steve, please tell our listeners on No Compromise Radio, when we think in theological terms, transcendence, eminence with an

A, if we think in categories like that, would that help us see rightly God's priorities in redemption and salvation?

Steve Well, it probably would. I think the problem, again, speaking broadly about evangelicalism, this isn't true of every preacher, it isn't true of every church, but the idea of a transcendent

God is not one that is often proclaimed. You know, we spend a lot less time contemplating, and I say we generically, the holiness of God and, you know, just kind of the inexplicable fullness of God.

And we spend a lot of time talking about his love, you know, talking about, well, his love and talking about how much he loves us, you know?

I mean, this is what evangelicalism is, you know, broadly speaking, again, has shrunken down to.

It's just, how much does God love us? And how do we talk about God's love today? Which is true, right?

It is true that God loves us. We know that's true. The Bible says it's true, but the idea that, and the

Bible also says that God is love, but it doesn't say that God is love only, or that he is love primarily, or that, you know, the main way we should think about God is love.

Yes, but Steve, it says in 1 John, doesn't it? God is love. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, yes, thank you for that.

Steve, don't you think that some people, they see God lopsidedly, and so it's a cafeteria

Christianity. You know, there's something about a buffet that's nice and you could just saunter down the row there and slide your tray, you know, your kind of wet tray, because they've just been washed.

And you put a couple, I just got back from the Midwest. Actually, a couple of people said things like that, interesting or different, and I just felt like I was home.

Yeah, yeah. Because that's how you say or, you say er. Yeah, it was just like I was back at home. So you slide your tray down and you think, well,

I'd like double mashed potatoes with the special cheesy sauce and garlic, and I don't want any of those steamed beans or anything.

Oh, I'll take it a step further. I think most churches you go to every single week, they just, you go down the aisle and all you can get is

Cinnabons. You know, everything is sweet and lovely and, you know, just adds pounds onto you.

I mean, that's all they want to talk about, right? I believe, Steve, it was a man whose theology has since taken a turn for the worse.

He pictured Western churches as an emaciated, a starving child in the

Congo kind of area, and a distended stomach, but starving.

You could see the boy's ribs. You know, one of those commercials that you watch that have people begging for money.

And so what happens when you're starving to death? Excuse me. And when you're starving to death, your stomach becomes really big, but it's a sign of, you know, you're about ready to die.

So the churches are huge, many of them, but they are frail with their structure because there's no real meat.

They're not sturdy because they haven't been taught the things of God besides love. No focus on the holiness of God, his transcendence, his omnipotence, his omniscience, you know, all these different attributes.

You know, if all you do is go every Sunday to just hear how much God loves you, you know, then it's no wonder why, you know, you wind up with songs and other things that are just basically love songs.

Everything is love, love, love, love, love. And there's no call to repentance or obedience or anything else.

You just get together on Sundays to just find out new ways that God is revealing his love to you.

Steve, one of my favorite verses, a set of verses during my time at the

North Hollywood Bible Study, and I think I picked it up in an Attributes of God book by Pink, Psalm 50, verse 10, 11, and 12.

For every beast of the forest is mine. They cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the hills and all that moves in the field is mine.

If I were hungry, I would not tell you. For the world and its fullness are mine.

And so God is so sovereignly transcendent. When you understand that,

Steve, to me, and I think for you as well, it makes his close attributes, his eminent relational attributes all the better.

Because how could a high and holy God be the God of Israel, to use

Isaiah's language? How could he be our God? And then you think of the incarnation. And so I believe

J .F. Packer was correct. God is by nature transcendent, but by decision, our will, our volition, eminent.

And then you start thinking, how could a thrice holy God save a sinner like me? You've got to have both, they're so helpful.

Why would a God who could speak everything in a creation with a word care about me? You know,

I mean, that's just mind blowing. Why would God who is all powerful be so intimately involved in my life and the details of my life?

And that is amazing. I mean, it's like me being consumed with an ant.

I mean, that's an imperfect comparison, but I mean, it kind of gives us an idea.

When we think about how transcendent and how powerful and everything is, who am I to God? But the

Bible tells me who I am to God. And why? Well, that's because God is God. What we're trying to do,

No Compromise listeners, is to tell you the facts about God, true things about God, and then they drive you to worship

Him. This is the kind of God that deserves our worship. And by the way, this is the kind of God you should talk about from the

Bible and men will worship Him as well. Show me a God that's a relational God only, a love

God only, and I'll show you a place packed with a lot of ladies and not with any men. Yeah, it's kind of like the

Oprah Channel for Christians, right? I mean, you're going to wind up with 89 % women and the guys that are going to be there are not going to be -

They've been told to show up by their wives. They're not going to be too macho, let's just say that. All right, Isaiah 57, 15.

This was one of the verses I was thinking of that shows God's awesomeness and His closeness.

I mean, there's a friend who sticks closer than a brother and we're thankful for that. And when I think of a

God who is like this, who could come up with such a God? Isaiah 57. For thus says the one who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is holy.

I dwell in the high and holy place and also with Him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit to revive the spirit of the lowly.

And so He's high, He's exalted, He's worthy to be praised, and yet He's close to His people.

And then of course, I think of the Lord at the incarnation, the Lord Jesus. That could be a song, though. You know,

He's high, He's holy. Yeah, it's a song. You just wrote a worship song. You know,

I've been waiting to tell you this for some time, Steve, but I thought I would do it in a public arena. You know, where we'd have witnesses and things like that.

I'm gonna embark on a solo career. Well done. Well done.

So transcendent, eminent. How could our listeners learn more about those attributes? Where would you recommend them to go?

Well, you already mentioned the attributes of God by Pink, and I think that'd be a great one. You know, you could read several books by Tozer, you know.

Steve, do you think there is a, there's almost a backlash to some of these eminent qualities or characteristics or attributes of God?

And you have young men, probably in particular, are men who are new Christians.

They've had enough of a love -only God, a crazy love -only God, a relational

God only, the view God. That would be a good song right there, the view God. Then they are exposed by, through the word of God, high view of God.

Jesus is the one who rides on the white horse in Revelation 19. His name's faithful and true.

He's coming back, executing with just judgment. And then maybe we go too far, and that's all we want to talk about is the sovereignty of God and His holiness and His wrath or these other, you know, incredible attributes.

Is there a possibility we could go too far? Well, I think there's a possibility in going too far about the, well,

I think we have gone too far in the love thing. Is there a possibility? Are you asking if there's a possibility of going too way on the other?

Well, talk about the transcendent attributes so much about His holiness and His wrath that we forget to tell people about His grace and His being rich in mercy and kindness.

We just go the other way. Maybe it's just the God of wrath. It's the Westboro Baptist God. Yeah, I think you always want to have a balance, but I think you really have to hunt.

You have to find people who aren't even Christians to really find people who are so focused on the wrath of God.

You know, like you mentioned, the Westboro Baptists who are Christian in name only, you know, not in any action or anything like that, so.

By the way, I know the Westboro Baptist folks were at Emanuel Bible Church in DC area. Jesse Johnson is the pastor there.

And I'd like to just offer, with all seriousness and candor, they could come here to Bethlehem Bible Church.

It's 307 Lancaster Street, West Boylston, Massachusetts. I will say the only problem is it's on a highway and we have private property that you're not allowed to be on, so there's no sidewalk.

So you might as well just spend all your resources and come out here and then you can't pick it anyway. So you can come out here anytime you want.

That's a really nice offer. Thank you so much. In fact, if they come out in the winter, they can stand in the slush and the mud and wow.

I could not believe when the lady had the sign, maybe as a man, our pastor, your pastor is a whore.

And then there's Jesse getting a picture taken. And then Jesse's associate pastor's out preaching the gospel and they're not even preaching the gospel.

They just have these derogatory signs and they don't even understand the issue. I mean, they're blind as you could get.

Yeah, I don't know if insult evangelism is going to be a wave that really kind of catches on.

You know, how do you evangelize the lost? Well, we hold up signs and we tell them that they're lost and they're damned and they're going to hell.

Well, then what do you tell them? Nothing. Steve, I think I've got a better way. You know, there has to be a better way.

That's the shark tank kind of idea on the TV show. How about Kung Fu evangelism?

You know, David Carradine, he was always calm and cool. He had the mosquito thing going on and then you push him so far and he'd have to do some

Billy Jack on you. I don't know if that's a good way to evangelize either.

You know, while they're laying on the floor, kind of rolling around in pain. Is that what you mean? Some Clint Eastwood kind of version.

Well, my name is Mike Abenroth. Steve Cooley's here as well. He's known as The Tuesday Guy. He's got a Twitter account as well, at The Tuesday Guy.

We've got at At & Alco Radio as well, the YouTube channel and a variety of things. And we don't ask for money on the show, but we do ask that you tell your friends if you'd like some

Bible teaching. With some straight talk. Is that our new slogan? It was always biblical, always provocative, always in that order.

How about, would you like some Bible teaching, some straight talk? Kung Fu. Ooh, Kung Fu you.

All right, here's another question, an email. And I actually think maybe,

I don't know if I read this one before or not, but that's all right. We have a short attention span on Alco Radio.

I do at least. We're also ADD. Dear Alco, I'm a 55 year old female, not in your typical demographic pool, according to your data, but totally into biblical teaching, sprinkled with a lot of sarcasm.

Well, I think I did read this one. Well, I think she found her show. Love in all caps, the show, but I cannot get into the archives, unless when

I drive. Aside from that, I appreciate both Steve and Mike and the solid stand they take on defending

God's work. Oh, you know what? What a great God we have. I stand in awe of God.

Hopefully it's just me not being able to pull up your episodes sincerely. And then she gives her name. Manon is her first name.

M -A -N -O -N. Could be a typo. M -A -N -O -N.

That's an unusual one. But she's the one that types it. Okay. So yeah. So any comments to her or anything like that?

Thank you for listening. I mean, that's very nice. And, you know, I'll try to write some really spiffy lines, you know, some sarcastic, oh, wait,

I'm not supposed to use any of that. Now, Steve, is this really sarcasm? Do we use sarcasm?

Is it a certain way to teach? Is it a barb? Is it appropriate kind of thing that we do here?

At least you do. I know they don't say much to me, but. Well, yeah, sorry.

You know, here's all I would say is that if I'm in the pulpit, I speak one way.

If I'm in the car, I probably speak a different way. Why? Because it's not a sermon.

It's an interaction. It's a conversation. And what we try to do on the Tuesday shows is we just kind of bring you in the car.

You're in the car with Mike and Steve, and we're just cruising down the road, right? And by the way, when you're in the car with Mike and Steve, Steve's usually driving because Steve is the retired law officer.

And so if I get pulled over, I'm sunk. If Steve gets pulled over, he's an officer.

Well, and there's a reason Mike's sunk. It's because I'm usually like, Officer, you need to give this man a ticket. I know.

You can write us with questions if you'd like, info at nocompromiseradio .com. Steve, we got one more here.

This is a thank you letter, but it doesn't say to Pastor Steve, but I know he probably would do that.

I'm crushed. It's a thank you letter, and it's with a copyright of handwriting without tears.

So it's, you know, you teach your children to write. Maybe it's a homeschool curriculum. It's got the lines there, so you stay within the lines, and it's a super sweet letter from one of our member's children here.

And Camden writes, Dear Pastor Abendroth and Mrs. A, thank you for your

S -R -M -E -N -S. Senior men. Senior men. Senior men. Senior men.

That's hometown. Sermons, yes. We are praying,

P -R -A -I -N -G, for you. Thank you, Mrs. A, for running, it looked like ruining for a second.

Yeah, that's right. For ruining the madhouse. For running the madhouse, H -A -U -S. I mean, that is -

It's German. I know, it's madhouse. And so, I'm so thankful to get those kind of letters.

Steve, when you get a picture of you handwriting, hand drawn up in the pulpit with the microphone kind of pushed down, those things have to go up on the wall.

Yeah, they're kind of cool. They're really priceless. Or when my two -year -old granddaughter wants to run out and kiss

Pastor Mike. I mean,

I just remember your kids when they were pretty little, not that little. And then to see now your grandkids, and I just think, the ones that I know temperamentally would be willing to give

Pastor Mike a kiss on the cheek, I go for that. Yeah, that's very cute. But here's my problem.

When you're my age, and you bend down, when you stand up, you're dizzy. Yeah, it's hard. It's very, very difficult.

It's getting harder all the time, isn't it? So, Steve, what do you do when people think this is how you always are?

You're just always Pastor Steve with kind of like a quick comment, or maybe a snide remark, or a little sarcastic barb.

Is this you really all the time? Well, allow me to defend myself. No. I mean, if I'm counseling with somebody, if I'm teaching or preaching, the answer is no.

In fact, to just give you an idea of self -restraint, this is going to be semi -funny.

Eric Johanson on Sunday, he preached a fine message. And one of the things he said was, he goes, what do you look forward to?

And then he said, I used to look forward to the Celtics just smashing the Lakers. And I was sitting there and I just,

I thought, when did that ever happen? And I'm going, oh, he must, Eric must've grown up in the late 50s and early 60s.

And so when I got up to close the meeting, I was kind of proud of myself for not saying that because I decided, well,

Eric, you must be a lot older than you look. I didn't do it. I didn't say it. So no co -listeners. Now you know,

I think of these things and often I don't say them, so. In all honesty, Steve did a funeral the other day for Flo's mom, and he did a great job.

Tons of unbelievers there. So many unbelievers that even one had never heard Psalm 23.

Yeah, I thought that was incredible. And Steve was kind and had a preaching voice. No, he had a funeral voice.

It was kind. And I said, well, Steve, if I was able to, I'd give you all the funerals from here on out. And so there are different ways to deliver

God's truth. And so no co, maybe not for everybody, but I think Tuesday's for everybody.

Well, we think so. But on the other hand, we understand if not everybody likes it. All right, nocoradio .com.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE in staff or management.