June 29, 2026 Show with Col. John Eidsmoe on “The Influence of John Calvin on the Birth of America” PLUS “The Great Debate Between John Adams & John Dickinson on Independence Revisited”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 29th day of June 2026.

Before I introduce to you my returning guest and our topic of the day, I want everybody to mark your calendars for an interview that may be the very first of its kind ever. On this Friday, on July 3rd on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I am interviewing two former members of the cult known as Swedenborgianism, and this is a cult started by the followers of the 18th century Swedish scientist, mystic, and spirit medium, Emanuel Swedenborg.

And I have scoured the internet for over a year trying to find former members of this cult who I could get on the program, and I could not find a single person that was formally attached to this cult until I posted an advertisement on Facebook trying to recruit any members that were formally a part of the cult Swedenborgianism, especially if they happen to be theologically reformed.

And sure enough, someone who had a friend in this cult who was actually born and raised in the cult and his family is a prominent family within Swedenborgianism, well, I got contacted by Tony Cowley and his sister Terry Caterano are both going to be on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Friday, and so I'm very excited about this.

If anybody out there can correct me in my claim that this may be the very first interview ever anywhere with former members of the Swedenborgian cult, please let me know. But from what I know, from what I've been able to find, this is the first interview with such folks, and I know that on YouTube there is one former Swedenborgianist who is a Christian who has a series of YouTube teachings against this cult, but he's anonymous.

He doesn't give his name, and I've heard Christian theologians critique the cult, but I've never heard an interview with anyone who is formally attached to it. And the reason why this has relevance to our day and age is that even back in the 18th century, Immanuel Swedenborg was teaching that there were life on other planets, intelligent life on other planets, and he was communicating with them according to his teachings.

So it should be a fascinating interview this Friday. I hope you listen. But today, since this Saturday is the 4th of July and is the 250th anniversary of the birth of the United States, I wanted to have a special program that was focusing on that date, and I also wanted to talk about something that's rarely discussed, it seems, and that is the influence of John Calvin on the birth of America.

And today, interestingly enough, we're going to have a Lutheran minister's tribute to John Calvin and his influence on the interview. We'll also be discussing the great debate between John Adams and John Dickinson on independence.

And those of you who don't know much about me or where I currently live, I am about a two-minute walk from Dickinson College, which was named after John Dickinson. But today we have to discuss these things, Colonel John Eidsmoe.

He is an author of numerous books. He's an ordained minister in the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations and director of the executive board of the Plymouth Rock Foundation. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trippin's On Radio, Colonel John Eidsmoe.

Colonel, it's always a pleasure to be with you, and I have an admiration for the work you do in bringing our people together. You make me use the term cutting-edge ideas here from theologians and the like, and bring them to the attention of the listening public so we can understand how theology not only affects our religious belief, but how it affects our political beliefs as well.

Amen. And by the way, I want to let our listeners know there's a reason why John doesn't sound as crystal clear as most of my guests. It's because for some reason we were having a computer issue today, so John has to conduct his interview by phone, which explains the slightly muffled sound of his voice.

The Association of Free Lutheran Congregations and Its Distinctives

But first of all, why don't you let our listeners know about the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations? I'm a pastor with the Association, and I'm director of military capacity for the Association, but just like within Presbyterianism, where you have various Presbyterian denominations, liberal groups like the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, more conservative like the PTA and the CREC, and just like this, you find similar divisions within Lutheranism.

And back around 1960, most of the Norwegian Lutheran Senates were going to join together what was then to be called the ALC, or American Lutheran Church, but one of those groups, the Lutheran Free Church, refused to go along with this because they would not affirm a belief in the inerrancy of the Word of God.

And so we in the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations came out of that Lutheran Free Church movement. We just said we can't join the PALC without a confirmation of the inerrancy of the scriptures, and so we were formed around 1960.

Right now we have about 260 churches throughout the nation, and also quite a few in Canada, and then we have quite a bit of mission to work in various parts of the world, including Brazil, Mexico, and other places as well.

But our doctrines would be, first of all, a firm commitment to the inerrancy of the Word of God, and to the truth of the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, but also to the Lutheran Confessions, the Augsburg Confessions, and so on.

But we would hold the Lutheran view of election, but we would also say that at baptism, the person is given the seed of saving faith, but that must grow, and the person must personally trust Jesus Christ for his salvation in order to truly be saved and part of the family of God.

We tend to be a little more low church in the sense of a little less liturgical, and our brothers in the Missouri Synod and other Lutheran Synods, and a little more pietistic, and unlike some of them, we tend to be, a lot of us at least, pre-millennial, so that would distinguish us.

Mark Devereux. If anybody wants—. Will Cole. Go ahead. Mark Devereux. I'm sorry, what was that? Will Cole. It's that we do have several churches in Pennsylvania, and I believe you know one of our pastors.

Mark Devereux. Yes. Will Cole is a regular attender of my free biannual Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors luncheons. I believe at least for the last five years, when he discovered the luncheons, he's been attending every one.

I can't think of one he missed. But if anybody wants more information on the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations, go to aflc .org, and I might as well plug my friend Will Cole's congregation. I hope he's listening.

His church is St. Matthew Lutheran Church in that denomination, and the website for that congregation is stmatthewpa .org, S-T, abbreviation for Saint, Matthew, and that is singular, there's no S at the end, PA for pennsylvania .org, stmatthewpa .org.

The Plymouth Rock Foundation and Pilgrim Influence

Now tell us something about the Plymouth Rock Foundation, which is one of the reasons that you have such a keen and thorough understanding of church history and American history. Tell us about this fine organization.

Mark Devereux. The Rock Foundation is centered in Plymouth, Massachusetts, of course, and we are dedicated to preserving and researching and expanding and educating people about the vision of the pilgrims, their Christian vision for salvation through Jesus Christ, through his word, but also their vision to come to America and to spread the concept of freedom and representative government here in America.

We have a board of nine persons, and several of them are in Plymouth, most of us are not in Plymouth. Our director, Paul Gailey, lives in Plymouth, and Paul has, I believe, also been a Yes, we hold conferences usually twice a year, usually the weekend before Thanksgiving, and usually around the 1st of August.

We will not be having one this year because there are so many Independence Day efforts going on, but one of the things that we have been doing to the Plymouth Rock Foundation is demonstrating the link between the pilgrim theology, which is reflected in one of the first legal documents ever drafted in America, the Mayflower Compact, which they drafted before ever coming ashore there in Plymouth, and John Quincy Adams even referred to that as the first written constitution in North America.

The connections between that and the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. You can be on our mailing list, our email, our website, where you can get our letter from Plymouth Rock email, but our website is PlymouthRock .org, P-L-Y-M-O-U-N-T-H-O-R-K .org, PlymouthRock .org.

Amen. Great. And by the way, I think I forgot to mention the town here in Pennsylvania where Will Cole pastors St. Matthew Lutheran Church. That's Millerstown, Pennsylvania, just in case I forgot to mention that, which is in Perry County, and that's where I have the biannual Iron Trip and Zion Radio pastors luncheon, in Perry County, that is, at Church of the Living Christ in Perry County.

But today we are discussing something I think is quite fascinating that a lot of people may not know, both Calvinist and non-Calvinist, may not know of the great influence John Calvin had on the birth of America.

This 16th century reformer had a lot to do, or I should say his teachings had a lot to do with the 18th century birth of America. And it's also quite refreshing that I have a Lutheran minister paying tribute to John Calvin in this way, since unfortunately, and I'm not broad-brushing here, but there is a large element of Lutheran ministers and laymen alike out there that have a vehement hatred of John Calvin and all that he stands for.

But today we're going to be hearing of a more positive view of John Calvin. And first of all, why don't you tell us something about the specific teachings of John Calvin that caught the ear, if you will, of the patriots and founding fathers of this country, where Calvin's teachings had such bearing upon the idea of liberty, freedom, and the birth of this nation?

Calvin, Luther, and the Five Points of Calvinism

Well, first of all, I'd say as a Lutheran that Luther and Calvin were not as far apart as later Lutherans and Calvinists became. And sometimes, especially Luther had a tendency that if somebody agreed with him on 99 points, he would focus on the one point they disagreed with and make that the matter of contention.

Luther tended to be that way then. But we have the Augsburg Confession, which was drafted largely by Luther in 1530. And then Belyphon, who was Luther's kind of successor and top lieutenant, you might say, Belyphon was a little softer than Luther.

And he thought the Lutherans and Calvinists should join together as much as possible because they had so much in common. And he drafted what is sometimes referred to as the altered Augsburg Confession, which John Calvin signed.

And so they weren't as far apart as you might think. But of course, we summarize Calvin's teachings. And this summary comes to Marminians that Calvin didn't use tulips or the five points of Calvinism itself, but he totaled the gravity.

And with that, Lutherans would be in complete agreement that they probably defined them a little more as a condition we're in rather than the choices we make. Two unconditional election, that is, God does not elect based upon poor knowledge that somebody is going to believe whether his election in eternity past is unconditional.

And again, Luther would agree there. Third, limited atonement, the L-T-U-L, limited atonement, the idea that Christ died only for the elect. And that could be a point of contention between Luther and Calvin.

However, I don't think Luther and Calvin themselves were as far apart on that doctrine as maybe later Lutherans and Calvinists became. Luther put it this way, that there is objective reconciliation and subjective reconciliation.

Objectively, Christ's death covered the sins of the whole world. But subjectively, only the elect received the benefit of what Christ did on the cross. Calvin said that Christ's death was sufficient, that is, enough for the whole human race, but efficient, that is, effective, only for the elect.

That's almost the same thing as Lutherans and Calvinists tend to diverge on that point more as we get into the 1600s. Unconditional, that was earlier, the irresistible grace to defeat the sovereignty of God.

Once God has elected a person, that person could successfully resist. On that point, Luther and Calvin would simply have to disagree. And then perseverance of the saints, that is, those whom God has truly elected will persevere.

Lutherans, that's Calvinist position, are divided on that. The Missouri Senate, they tend to lean much more toward that position, some other Lutherans less so. So those are the basic five points of Calvinism.

Now, how they affect law and governance and how they would affect the declaration and independence of the Constitution, I think what we need to understand as we start there is that law is ultimately based upon morality.

All law is based upon a moral principle. And morality ultimately has its roots in religion. And so naturally, the viewpoint of a Calvinist or viewpoint of a Lutheran, which would be similar on matters of law and government, would be different from those, somewhat different from those of a Roman Catholic and quite a bit different from an Anabaptist, not a Baptist, but an Anabaptist, and quite different from a Muslim or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a secularist.

So that's where Calvinism comes in. And we go on to talk about how influential Calvinists were in the founding of America and the role that they took certainly in the establishment of American institutions.

Total Depravity, Human Nature, and Limited Government

Well, one thing that comes to my mind, and I'm wondering if I'm correct on this, is Calvin's view of total depravity, to me, would lend itself perfectly to an objection to a king, which could so easily become a tyrant in a country.

And that monarchy system, which obviously the patriots and the founding fathers rebelled against, that is really living proof, historical proof of how the depraved nature of man could very easily give birth to tyrants.

And of course, I believe it was in the 19th century, Lord Acton famously said, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And that, I think, belief system was correct and could be traced back to before Lord Acton had famously penned those words.

But am I right on this? You're absolutely right. In fact, if you look at that statement, by the way, I can paraphrase that statement when I speak sometimes, that Lord Acton said, paraphrase, power corrupts, PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

It's not the way I use PowerPoint. But anyway, so the next, after he says power, their absolute power corrupts absolutely, his next statement is, and great men are almost always bad men. And in the case, their power certainly needs to be restrained.

But I think you could say that there are two things probably that the founding fathers would be united on. That would be the vast majority who are Christians. And among those, the majority of those who are Christians would be of a Calvinist persuasion.

This would be their belief, but it'd also be the belief of those few who would not be orthodox. They would nevertheless share these two basic beliefs. One would be a high view of God and His law. The idea that there is a higher law than the law of man, which all human law must conform.

Jefferson even begins the declaration with that language that we are entitled to our independence, he says, by the laws of nature and of nature's God. But the second thing that would unite them would be a low view of man and his nature, as Calvinists would say, total depravity.

And recognizing the depraved nature of man, well, I think maybe one of the best expressions of that comes from James Madison. I might be a little swore to call Madison a Calvinist, but he did study at the College of New Jersey under the Presbyterian pastor there, Reverend Witherspoon.

And he stayed there for a semester after graduation. And he could study Hebrew, and he could read the Hebrew laws in the original language. But Madison in Federalist No. 51 reflects on how human nature has so much to do with how government is designed.

He says, what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? He says, if men were angels, no government would be necessary. In other words, if we were good, we wouldn't need government.

And then he says, if angels were to govern them, neither external or internal controls on government would be necessary. In other words, if we weren't good, but we still had a group of what Plato called the wise, the novelist philosopher king, we could just give them absolute power that trust they would wield it in everybody's interest.

But so far, Madison seems to be implying that we're not angels, and those who govern us aren't angels either. And so he says, in framing a government, which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this.

You must first enable the government to control the government, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself. And that's the basic problem that political scientists in America were concerned about throughout the 1700s and should be concerned about today.

And that is, how do we give government enough power so it can govern effectively? Recognizing that under the Articles of Confederation, we really didn't have a strong enough government, and without government, you have anarchy, human nature being what it is.

Also recognizing that people need law and order, people need to be controlled. Also recognizing that those who run the government have the same sinful nature as everybody else. That means they can't be trusted with too much power.

And so how do we give government enough power to govern effectively, but limit that power so it does not become tyrannical and oppressive? And that's more the subject of the Constitution. But it's also the subject of the colonists as they're contemplating independence, because they know that the British crown has usurped power in many ways, has become tyrannical, has become oppressive.

And this is not a situation that the colonists felt that they could live with for a long period of time. And something had to be done to either bring the English crown and Parliament in line with biblical principles of government, or else we're going to have to separate from them.

And we have to go to our first commercial break. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away, we are going to be right back after these messages.

I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune God.

We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ. In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every Sunday.

We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org. That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reformed Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the holy scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net. That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711. That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you.

Heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm Brian McLaughlin,.

President of the SecureComm Group, and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program. The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, closed-circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom-install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off-site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices. From simple code-activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the SecureComm Group has it.

We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems. In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network. Whether it's a Wi-Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners and their associates. For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit SecureCommGroup .com. That's SecureCommGroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

On the air. Hello, this is Brian Nye, president of Hearts for the Lost Ministry. Our sole mission.

Is to serve the local church and work directly with and alongside pastors and elders with their efforts to equip, excite, and educate their flock in biblical evangelism. We also provide practical experience opportunities in sharing the gospel directly within your immediate community.

We accomplish this mission with training and Christ-centered outreach events designed to equip the church and proclaim the good news of the gospel. Our services are always 100 free. If you're looking to equip and mobilize your church for faithful gospel witness, please partner with us.

Hearts for the Lost Ministry, serving the church, proclaiming the gospel. Contact us today at Heartsforthelost .com. That's Heartsforthelost .com. Now, have a heart and go share your faith.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in.

Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your.

Order. This program is sponsored by Hope TR Ministry. Hope TR Ministry is a podcast produced by Hope Protestant Reformed Church in Walker, Michigan. We are dedicated to sharing Reformed Biblical content every Wednesday and Friday.

Tune in for sermons, lectures, and interviews exploring distinctive Reformed doctrines. If you are looking for Christ-centered content, simply search Hope TR Ministry on your favorite podcast platform to begin listening today.

Hope TR Ministry also offers Morning Meditations, a daily podcast featuring Reformed devotionals designed to nourish your soul. Start your day with these spiritually enriching messages by tuning into Morning Meditations wherever you get your podcasts.

Calvinism, America’s Founding, and the Power of the Pulpit

Welcome back, if you just tuned.

Us in. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and today our guest is Col. John Eidsmo, author of numerous books, ordained minister in the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations, and director of the executive board of the Plymouth Rock Foundation.

We are addressing, to start off with, the influence of John Calvin on the birth of America, a Lutheran minister's tribute. If you have a question of your own, submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, city and state of residence, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. And we do have Kyle in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, and Kyle says, wouldn't one proof of the great influence of John Calvin on the foundations of America is that the British called the War of Independence the Presbyterian War.

Col. Eidsmo? Well, that is correct. It was referred to as the Presbyterian Rebellion, and in fact, Horace Walpole, I think he was prime minister, high official in London, made the statement, Cousin America has won off of the Presbyterian Parsons.

I'm referring to Rev. John Whitterspoon, who had come from Scotland to become president of the College of New Jersey, which they recently renamed itself something like Princeton or something like that.

And yes, Presbyterians were among the strongest supporters of the War of Independence period. Just as another example, a lot of people don't realize today, and that's just some 40 years before this time, 30 to 40 years in fact, you had the Jacobite Rebellion in Scotland.

In fact, that wasn't all Presbyterian. In fact, they even bring back Bonnie Prince Charles, who was Catholic, but he was at least a Scot, because they wanted Scottish independence from England. And anyway, ultimately, they were crushed at Clodden Moor and several other battles, and many of them were subject to very cruel executions, others were forced to flee, and many of those who fled came to America.

And one generation later, we see their descendants in the forefront of the War for Independence. So you could possibly even call the American War for Independence Scotland's redemption. Tom. Tom. Well, thank you, Kyle.

Excellent question. We also have Lionel in Vestavia Hills, Alabama. And Lionel says, didn't the teachings of John Calvin strongly support what later became known as the Protestant work ethic, which lends itself also to the foundations of America?

Certainly so, and I wouldn't say that only Calvin, but probably more than others, Luther emphasized that as well. And part of it came from the idea of the priesthood of all believers. And priesthood of all believers, we are all believers in Christ, we don't have to go through an intermediary, meaning that you are in the ministry, you are exercising the priesthood before God, whether you are preaching from a pulpit or serving in the military or conducting business or medicine or farming, or, well, maybe even practicing law.

And that being the case, you do what you do, not just make money, not that there's anything wrong with that, not just to support a family, which you should, but you do your work as a ministry, you do it to the glory of God.

And that produced this work ethic. That's one of the reasons the American pre-enterprise system was so successful, is that those who are practicing the pre-enterprise system here in America were infused with that work ethic, which Protestantism and Calvinism, and particularly the Puritans and children, are practitioners of.

So, yeah, that certainly had a role, too. All righty, we have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, I have heard—and this kind of relates to the last question—I have heard that Calvin was the architect of capitalism.

Is that a stretch, or is that a pretty accurate assessment which also lends credibility to him being viewed as an architect of the founding fathers to establish America? Call him an architect of capitalism?

No, I would say capitalism goes way, way before that. And, in fact, I would say you see a pre-market economy being practiced in the scriptures, and it's definitely a scriptural concept. But, again, infusing that with the work ethic makes it work especially well.

But, yes, having a role in developing the capitalist system, that's one of the things that made America great. And I guess we'll probably talk in a few minutes more about how Calvin influenced our political institutions as well.

But, yes, good points in regard to you can't divorce our political system from our economic system. Well, why don't you mention some of the primary reasons why we can thank God for John Calvin in regard to the celebration of the 250th birthday of America this Saturday?

Well, when we consider the influence of Calvin, I think what we have to remember is that law is based on morality. Morality is based on religious belief, and the religious belief of Americans at the time of the American War for Independence were overwhelmingly Calvinist.

I have to say that's more true than Lutheran because the Lutheran migrations to America, there were some Lutherans here at the time, but the large-scale Lutheran migrations to America didn't begin until the 1800s.

But Dr. William Boydner, for example, says in his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, it is estimated that of the three million Americans at the time of the American Revolution, 900 ,000 were of Catholic or Irish origin, 600 ,000 were Puritan English, and 400 ,000 were German or Dutch Reformed.

In addition to this, the Episcopalians have a Calvinistic confession in their 39 articles, and many Prince Judas, that is, Prince Calvinists, had come to this Western world. Thus, we see that about two-thirds of the colonial population had been trained in the school of Calvin.

And that being the case, we understand, too, that they would derive their ideas from religious sources a great deal. In fact, Bury Stout, who is a professor of religion at Yale, talks about the influence, and this is particularly true in Puritan New England, but it's true throughout the colonies.

Twice on Sunday and often during the week, every minister in New England delivered sermons lasting between one and two hours of length. Collectively, over the entire span of the colonial period, sermons totaled five million separate messages in a society whose population never exceeded 500 ,000, that's New England, and whose principal city never grew beyond 17 ,000.

The average churchgoer in New England listened to something like 7 ,000 sermons in a lifetime, totaling somewhere around 15 ,000 hours of concentrated listening. And as historian Edward Hufford said, by the way, that would be equivalent to several master's degrees, but historian Hufford says, the pulpit was the most powerful single force in America for the creation and control of public opinion.

And so you can see what influence Calvinist preachers, who are about 80 of the people, you can see what influence they had over the country at that time. And as far as the influence of Calvin, I'm going to read a couple of statements here.

One is by Dr. E. W. Smith. He says, if the average American were asked who was the founder of America, the true author of our great republic, he might be puzzled to answer. We can imagine his amazement at hearing the answer given to this question by the famous German historian, Rankine, one of the profoundest scholars of modern times, says Rankine, John Calvin was the virtual founder of America.

Dr. Smith continues, the revolutionary principles of republican liberty and self-governance taught and embodied in the system of Calvin were brought to America, and in this new land, where they had borne so many mighty harvests were planted by the hands of the Calvinists.

The vital relation of Calvin and Calvinism to the founding of free institutions in America, however, strangely may seem as if that mirror is dumb. The statement is recognized and affirmed by historians of all lands and creeds.

Van Gogh, who by the way is a Unitarian, he was probably the most influential American historian in the first half of the 1800s. He simply calls John Calvin the father of America, and he says, he will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin, knows but little of the origin of American liberty.

The last statement of Emilio Castro, I say, I just said wow. Then you give me a couple of orders. Emilio Castro, professor of philosophy at the University of Madrid, and I assume therefore they're not a Calvinist.

He says, if it's necessary for the republican movement to dare to become a morality more austere than Lutheran, the morality of Calvin, and a church more democratic than the German, the church of Geneva, the Anglo-Saxon democracy, as for its lineage, the book of a primitive society, the Bible, it is the product of a severe theology learned by the few Christian fugitives in the gloomy cities of Holland and Switzerland, where the morose shade of Calvin is still wanted, and it still remains serenely in its grandeur, forming the most dignified, most moral, and most enlightening portion of the human race.

One that I think most of your body as you will recognize, Daubeny, who is one of the leading church historians of all time, particularly in the Reformation. Daubeny says, Calvin was the founder of the greatest republic.

The pilgrims who left their country in the reign of James I, and landing on the barren soil of New England, founded populous and mighty colonies, were his sons, his direct and legitimate sons, and that American nation, which we have seen growing so rapidly, boasts of its father, the humble reformer on the shore of Lake Lenin.

In fact, several of the puritans, at least one of the pilgrims who came on the way forward, at least one of them, was born while John Calvin was still living, living in the backdrop of the Reformation.

And Reformation certainly has a strong influence on many throughout Europe, but probably none more than the pilgrims and the puritans. Fascinating stuff. And we do have Stuart in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, and Stuart says, all these things that you are saying about Calvin seem to disprove the slanderous stereotype that he was some kind of a maniacal dictator and tyrant in Geneva.