Love and Nonresistance — John D. Martin

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Well, thank you for being so patient. I think you were experiencing a little bit of overload there at the end. I could see you were looking a little jaded. Alright, I want to look now at another subject, and I promise you I will conclude at about 12 o 'clock, maybe 5 after.

I'm not going to keep you as long this time, and I'll just quit wherever I get to. Alright, I'm going to speak about the Anabaptist theology of love and non-resistance. I'd like to speak about that, and I know I'm preaching to the choir, which means that you all believe in it.

Defending the Gospel of Love and Nonresistance

But the problem is, could you defend it? Could you explain it to somebody else in a convincing way why you believe that? And so, I hope today maybe we can analyze a little more carefully what the gospel has to say about this subject and be a little bit more able to have stronger convictions and a more articulate approach to the whole thing.

Now, I'm going to start off with the story that Dean Taylor gave at Bible School at Charity. How many of you were there? So, one or two of you heard this story, but it's such a good story, I thought it'd be a good way to start off this session.

Let's bow our heads for prayer first. Father, we thank You that Jesus came and won a great victory without lifting a sword. Oh, Father, we believe that His spiritual weapons have been given to us, and they're just as powerful today, and that love is more powerful than hate, and it wins a greater victory.

Father, we just looked at our Anabaptist forefathers who won a great victory for humankind without lifting a sword, but it was at the stake, and it was by drowning and by the sword that they met their death.

But, Lord, this had a tremendous influence. And I pray, Father, as their descendants help us to be as faithful in this aspect of our belief, and our discipleship is what they were. So, just be with us now.

Open our hearts and our minds, and just fill us with Your understanding. In Jesus' name, amen. Sixty-two years ago, on August the 9th, 1945, the second of two atomic bombs ever used as instruments of war was dropped on Nagasaki, Japan.

The crew that dropped this bomb was an all-Christian bomb crew who were only doing their job. Three days earlier, the first bomb had been dropped on Hiroshima, and now their B -29 Superfortress had taken off from Tinian Island with the prayers and blessings of a Lutheran and Catholic chaplain.

The plane was headed for Kokura. Three weeks earlier, the only field test of nuclear weapons had been performed in New Mexico, but as they headed toward Kokura, it clouded up and they were not able to see their target, so they headed for Nagasaki.

Now, you have to understand something about Nagasaki. It's famous in the history of Japanese Christianity. I must tell you, though, that it was Roman Catholic Christianity, but it was the only major Christian witness in Nagasaki, or in Japan, as far as that goes.

Nagasaki had the largest Christian church, St. Mary's Cathedral. It had the largest concentration of baptized Christians in Japan. It had been established by the famous Jesuit missionary Francis Xavier, and this church had been brutally persecuted almost out of existence, and the Christians had gone into the caves and lived in such seclusion that for many years the Japanese authorities didn't even know they existed.

And then the explorers started to come from the west, and these Christians thought it was safe now to come out of hiding because there were other people there who would perhaps make some plea for their safety, and so they came out of hiding, and again they were mercilessly persecuted, but this time the west forced Japan to give them freedom, and so they built their cathedral, St. Mary's Cathedral in Nagasaki, Japan.

Well, the bomb was targeted for that cathedral, and so this B -29 Superfortress came into Nagasaki, targeted the cathedral, and dropped its bomb. At 1102 AM, Nagasaki Christianity was boiled, evaporated, and carbonized in a scorching radioactive fireball.

The persecuted, surviving, vibrant center of Japanese Christianity was obliterated. It had become ground zero. What the Japanese imperial government could not do in over 200 years of persecution, American Christians managed to accomplish in nine seconds.

The entire worshiping community of Nagasaki ceased to exist. Now, how did it happen that Christians annihilated Christians? Well, after AD 300, a central principle of the gospel was lost. Let's read that.

Jesus' Teaching on Enemy Love

Matthew chapter 5. Familiar passage. Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil, but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man, I want you to notice, it says, whosoever, if any man, I mean this is all inclusive, shall sue thee at the law to take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, notice it said whosoever.

It didn't say do it to these people, but not to these people. Whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain, give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow thee, turn thou not away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. And by the way, that's what the Old Testament said. We'll be looking at that in just a moment. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven. I mean this is a central mark of His children. Because He maketh His Son to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth His reign on the just and on the unjust.

For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? And if you turn to the book of Luke, it says, what, I can't get the word. Turn to the book of Luke 6. What thank have ye? And if you look there, it's the word grace.

If you love them, Luke 6 verse 32, now that you're turning to it, let's look at it. For if you love them which love you, what thank have ye? For sinners also love those that love them. In other words, what He's saying is, what Christianity have you?

If you love somebody who loves you, well, you don't need any grace to do that at all. Alright? And if you salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Or what grace have you? Do not even the publican so.

Be ye therefore perfect. And it's interesting that if you go to the book of Luke, back there in Luke 6, if you're still there, instead of perfect here, it says, be ye merciful. So that's what it means to be perfect in this context.

That when you have an enemy or someone that you could use force against, you'd be merciful. Then in that situation, you will be like your father, you will be perfect. That's what you're supposed to be in these kinds of situations.

Be ye therefore perfect or merciful as it says in Luke, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect or merciful. Now that's pretty straightforward. But we'll see what people have done with it. This was completely lost in that theological manipulating that I told you started after the early church.

And people like Augustine finally came up with a just war theory, which among other things says you should love your enemy while you're killing him. Now I don't know if anybody ever did that, but that's what Augustine said.

But anyway, in 174, we have the first example of a soldier joining the Christian church. Now they don't like you to say that when you talk to them. They don't like that historical reference. Your people who studied this, they know that's true.

That the church was universally non-resistant until 174. And then it took quite a few years before all the churches finally sort of gave in and this was totally lost. People like Tertullian fought this tooth and nail.

And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But anyway, you're on good historical ground with the church whenever you take a non-resistant position. This is not just an Anabaptist thing. In fact, it was interesting to me to visit Eastern Europe in 1997 and discover that the Baptist churches or the Evangelical churches of Eastern Europe were basically non-resistant.

How many of you were aware of the fact that the underground church in Russia was non-resistant? A few of you knew that. I've talked to them. Well, I said, yeah, of course. In fact, before they let me preach in that little Baptist church over near the border of Poland and Russia, they interrogated me pretty thoroughly in what I believed.

They asked me what I believed about women's role in the church, what I believed about the charismatic movement, what I believed about non-resistance. And they would not have let me preach if I had not answered those questions the way they wanted me to answer them.

And one of the questions was what I believed about the gospel of peace. So we're not the only ones that have believed this. It has come down from the early church where it has not been compromised. And I consider this the most drastic and disastrous compromise the church ever made.

Can you imagine what could have happened to the church if it had maintained its testimony of peace? I told you that the early Christians claimed credit for the Pax Romana. Now, I'm aware that a lot of you, when I said that, don't know what I was talking about.

Pax Romana means the Roman peace. For 200 years, Rome was at peace. There were no wars. The Christians claim credit for that. If you go back and read their writings, they claim it was because God sent the Prince of Peace that he set up a peaceable kingdom.

And that peaceable kingdom, the power and influence of that kingdom was keeping the world at peace. And then it was lost about the time that the Christians surrendered this tremendous concept. Without a surrender on this issue, there would have been no Inquisition in the name of Christ.

There would have been no Crusades in the name of Christ. There would have been no enslavement of the American blacks in the name of Christ. There would have been no mistreatment of the American Indian in the name of Christ.

There would have been no conquistadors in Latin America brutalizing the people of Latin America in the name of Christ. These things all happened under the name of Christianity. And our Muslim friends, if we can call them friends, our Muslim people have never forgotten these atrocities committed by Christians.

Can you imagine what influence the church could have had if its testimony in all ages and places would have been when these people come on the scene, they will do violence to no man. They are people who live in peace.

They will be taken advantage of, but they will never take advantage of anybody else. Can you imagine what might have happened to the Christian church if that had been the testimony uncompromised? This is a very serious subject.

This is a very serious subject. This is the most horrendous compromise the church has ever made. And I thank the Lord. I tell people, I'm an Anabaptist. Yes, we Anabaptists have done a lot of crazy things.

We haven't treated each other very well. We've split into all kinds of splits and splinters. And there are many things about our history and our practice, or the way, experience, that's the word, in our experience that I regret.

But there is one thing. Your forefathers never killed anybody. I think that's pretty significant. And I tell my Reformed friends, we're not talking about what side of the head you part your hair on, or whether you wear suspenders or a belt.

We're talking about whether you kill people or not. I want to look at this under three points. The testimony of the Gospel, the testimony of history, and the testimony of experience. And we'll go for 45 minutes and see how far we get.

The Gospel and the Two Covenants

Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount is very clear. We read it. But some people say, and this is what you're going to get, He was only talking about personal enemies. He was not talking about nations at warfare.

How many have ever been up against that one? Alright, we have an answer. And they'll say, besides, in the Bible, God commanded people to kill people. They appeal to the Old Testament. The verses they use from the New Testament are very few, and their interpretations of those verses are very questionable.

We'll look at them. Now, the problem with these people is they fail to acknowledge, as you, I'm sure, have already heard, they fail to acknowledge a difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

But I want to point out specifically what it is they fail to recognize. Leviticus 19, verse 18. You might want to write this down. Has that famous Old Testament reference, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

And so people say, well see, that was in the Old Testament too. And so what it simply means is that in a personal way, you should be kind to all your personal enemies. But now when a nation's at war, we're talking about something altogether different.

Well, I want you to listen to what Leviticus 19, verse 18 really does say. Thou shalt not avenge nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. So, who was your neighbor according to the Old Testament?

Your people. Everybody else was fair game. That's why the man said to Jesus, who is my neighbor? The Old Testament says your neighbor is only your own people. It specifically says, I said the Old Testament said, thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy.

I'm going to give it to you. The Old Testament said, don't you seek the peace of Ammon or Edom or their posterity forever. You are to hold the line against those people. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, but it only includes the Israelites.

Outside of that, God can say, hey, don't you ever take those people into the congregation. Don't you ever forgive their sins. Don't you ever go out there and get rid of those people. Those people now need to be punished.

You go out and punish. But in your own context, you're to love your neighbors yourself. What they don't realize is there is no such limitation in the New Testament. That was true in the Old Testament.

What they're saying about the New Testament, that was true in the Old Testament. But we don't find anything like that in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, Elijah called down fire from heaven. In the New Testament, somebody tried to do that.

And what did Jesus say? I did not come to destroy. I came to save life. We're not going to do what Elijah did in the Old Testament. We're living in a different era. Jesus rebuked His disciples and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. Listen to the New Testament injunctions in contrast to the Old Testament. Now, the thing you need to say to your Calvinist or your Protestant or your evangelical friends is, Yes, there was specifically said in the Old Testament that loving your neighbor was a very personal thing and everybody else was in a different category.

But you will not find a verse in the New Testament that says that. In fact, you find the exact opposite. Romans 12, verses 18 to 21 says, Live peaceably with... ...all men. Avenge not yourself. Vengeance is mine.

I will repay, saith the Lord. If thine enemy thirsts, give him drink. If he hungers, give him food. He calls a fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Now, I'd like for you to try that on the battlefield where you deliberately try to starve the enemy.

Destroy their supply lines. Make sure they don't get any water. Make sure they don't get any food. It says all men. You don't find that in the Old Testament. Love thy neighbor, applying to all men. In the New Testament, I want you to notice how it always says everyone, all men.

It's everybody. And there's no verse anywhere that says that this doesn't mean a certain group of people at a certain place and time. There's nothing like this in the New Testament. 1 Timothy 2 .1 You are to make supplication and prayer and intercession for all men.

For kings. What about that king we're fighting against? There's no exception here. For kings and all that are in authority. Hebrews 12 .14 Follow peace with all men. 2 Timothy 2 .24 Be gentle unto all men.

Titus 3 .2 Speak evil of no man. Be gentle, showing all meekness to all men. Now, I don't know. Maybe you can bayonet somebody gently. Maybe there is a way to do that. I don't know. But you're to be gentle with all men.

Galatians 5 .22 Gentleness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Philippians 4 .5 Let your moderation, which means gentleness, be known to all men. Let it be known that Christians are gentle people everywhere where people have heard the Gospel.

1 Corinthians 3 .16 Ye are the temple of God. There was a man one time that wanted to build a temple, and the Lord said, You're not qualified because you have blood on your hands. We are the temple of God.

Why would God not allow David to build a temple because he was a bloody man and used bloody people in the New Covenant to build his temple? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. All right. To Pilate, Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world.

If my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now is my kingdom not from hence. In other words, what he's saying is, My kingdom does not have its origins in this world or derive any of its support from this world or any earthly forces.

In fact, one time Satan said, The kingdoms of this world have been given to me. And Jesus never disputed that statement. And John says, The whole world lies in the lap of wickedness. I said we are people that believe in two kingdoms.

And we get it straight here from the teachings of Christ. Some people say, Well, the reason Jesus didn't do any violence is because he came here to die, to be killed and taken advantage of instead of defending himself.

Well, he came to die. But the reason he did no violence is because, as he clearly said, that is not the nature and the character of his kingdom. The Bible teaches that there are vessels in this world to honor and dishonor.

Just like you have in your house, you have a garbage bucket under the sink and you have China somewhere in a cabinet and the one is a vessel to honor and the other one is a vessel to dishonor. And God needs both of them in his house too.

He needs people to do his dirty work like Nebuchadnezzar did and like the kings of Assyria did and other people in the Old Testament he used to punish other people. They're his vessels unto dishonor. But he has vessels unto honor.

And he's calling us to be vessels unto honor. But it's like the old bishop used to say in the church I went to, he would point his bony finger to the young fellows in the back who were being a little unruly and he would say, Young men, whether you choose to follow Christ or not, God will use you.

You can decide which kind of vessel you want to be, but you will be used in his kingdom. And so God does do that. Well, let's turn to Romans 13. This is one of the passages they use. And I'm not going to say a whole lot about this passage except to point out something about the pronouns.

Verse 19 says, Dearly beloved, Thou venge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath, for it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. Now, I want you to notice the pronouns. Therefore, if thine enemy hunger...

How could we translate thine in our language? If your enemy hungers, give him drink. I'm sorry. Feed him. If he thirsts, give him drink. For in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

What's the pronoun? You're to do this. You're to do this. You're to do this. You're to do this. It's you. I want you to notice in chapter 13, would you look at verses 4 to 6? For he is the minister of God.

What has happened? The personal pronoun has changed from the second person to the third person. Romans 12 is for you. Romans 13 is about him. Somebody different. It's not talking about the same group of people.

Alright? And so, very clearly here, the Lord is talking about somebody that's not part of his people. He's talking about how you're to relate to him out there. Okay? Well, they say, he says that this person's a minister of God.

That means he's one of God's servants. Well, bless you. God said that Nebuchadnezzar was his servant. Jeremiah 25, verse 8. He says that Cyrus, the king of Persia, was his servant. Sorry about that. Maybe he was a servant.

Isaiah 44, verse 28. And Daniel makes the tremendous, incredible claim that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of God, of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

So the fact that he says these people are his servants doesn't prove anything about their standing with him as far as their Christian faith is concerned. It simply means they're people he uses in his kingdom that has vessels unto honor and vessels unto dishonor.

They're all servants. You're all servants. You can either serve him in love voluntarily, or you can end up doing his dirty work and at the end find out you were the big loser. But one way or the other, you will fulfill his purpose because it says he uses the wrath of men to praise him and then the remainder of wrath he restrains.

There's nothing out of his control. I told you this morning, he's sovereign. He can give every one of you a decision and still have the whole thing in total control and you'll find out in the end you weren't running the show.

That he ran the whole show and used your evil deeds to advance his purposes. It's what the Bible clearly teaches. Besides, in Romans chapter 13 it says our obedience to the authorities is to be based on conscience.

Now conscience is a very sensitive thing that we have to put some effort forth and some care has to be exercised to keep it keen and sensitive. It cannot be abused and brutalized and still work in a trustworthy way.

Conscience, Military Training, and Christian Witness

What happens during war to the conscience? Do you know that every person on this earth has a built-in resistance to killing? The figures are amazing. I'll give them to you. In the Civil War, people who've gone back to study our Civil War down there in the States, say that the potential on that battlefield with the number of weapons they had and the number of people they had, the potential was to kill 500 to 1 ,000 people per minute in each of the battles.

Would you like to guess how many average were actually killed when they figured out the total number of minutes of the war and the total number of the people killed? Would you like to know what the average was?

One or two? After the Battle of Gettysburg, they retrieved the muskets. 27 ,000 of them. 90 of them were still loaded. More than half of them had multiple charges. One musket had 23 charges. This guy just kept standing there loading.

He couldn't bring himself to pick it up and fire. So he was busy. Most of them could not bring themselves to pull the trigger. And people who were witnesses of the battle said many of the people who did pull the trigger shot over the heads of the others.

The United States in World War II found out that the percentage of killing was only 15 to 20%. They just could not bring themselves to fire. Oh, what they said happened during the Civil War, people who were there said what often happened is people would load muskets and pass them to the few who would shoot.

They would not shoot. Men were willing to die to sacrifice their own lives for their nation, but they were not willing to kill. And so after World War II, which had tremendous losses, partly because of this, they decided that in the next war, they would have to condition these men so that this rate could be improved.

In the Korean War, they managed to get the percentage up to 55%, but we still have half the people, half of the men who would not shoot to kill. In the Vietnam War, they raised the figure finally to 90%.

But the question is, how did they do it? They did it by brutalization, classical conditioning, operant conditioning, and role modeling in the boot camps. And when those men left those boot camps, they were filled with hate and bitterness and brutal intentions.

But what had happened to their conscience? What had happened to their conscience? Listen, I've heard many people say, huh, he decided to go to the army because he couldn't go along with his dad. Well, they'll teach him.

Hey, don't you ever say that. He will not be the same when he comes home. When he gets through that boot camp, his conscience will be brutalized and maimed probably for the rest of his life. The boot camps are filled with physical and emotional abuse, desensitization, and depersonalization.

The enemy is not a person, he's just a thing. The conscience to be reliable cannot be treated that way. Christians will not survive that kind of training and that kind of war experience and still be able to be sensitive to the ethic of Jesus and relate even properly to government once they get home.

What was Jesus' own example? Jesus' own example was He refused to get involved in writing injustice even in His own time. You remember that a man came to Him one time and said, My brother will not divide the inheritance with me.

Make him divide the inheritance with me. Well, Jesus could have gone and given His brother a lecture. He could have done a little bit at least to bring some justice into the situation, but He absolutely refused.

He said, Who made me a divider over you? The ground of a certain rich man brought forth, Oh dear, then we get that parable. He used it as an opportunity to teach a lesson that you don't think about yourself, you think about others and you think about God.

When Pilate mixed the Galileans' blood with their sacrifices, that was brought to Him. And instead of condemning Pilate's action or making any comment on it whatsoever, doing anything about it, He used it as a lesson repent or you shall all likewise perish.

Isaiah 53 says, Jesus divided the spoil with the strong. Also, He was fighting a battle. You divide the spoil after the battle's over and you have won. The spoil that He divides with the strong is the language, is the typical spoil that gets divided with all the people who served under Him for winning this great battle.

How did He win it? Isaiah 53, by fighting, by dying. You call that reverse fighting. They fight, you die. You don't fight, they live. And yet, He won a great victory by this method. Some people say this method will not work.

I just told you this morning that our Anabaptists won a great victory for all of Western civilization and they never drew a sword. They died by the hundreds and by the thousands. We don't ask what reason tells us in this.

We trust and obey. Alright? But non-resistance is not pacifism. Pacifism says we don't fight. We fight. We are formidable warriors, brother. 2 Timothy 2 .3 says, Endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

But 2 Corinthians tells us what that means. For though we walk after the flesh, listen to this, we do not war after the flesh. For we have better weapons. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but they are mighty.

Through God, to the pulling down of strongholds, casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

That's military language, brothers and sisters. Or brothers. Sorry, there are no sisters here. We are serving a different commander who has different rules of battle, different goals in conflict, and different accomplishments.

And we follow him. And he's a good leader. And there's going to be a great victory. But the heart of non-resistance is a theology of martyrdom. Reverse fighting, if you please. Matthew 10 .16 says, Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves.

And you heard what the Anabaptist forefathers said about this. Romans 8, verse 36, For thy sake we are killed all the day long. 1 Peter 2 .21. For even hereunto were ye called, because Christ also suffered for us, that we should also follow in his steps.

But this will be stoutly opposed by the popular Christian. For the preaching of the cross, which this is what this is, is to them that perish foolishness. But unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.

And Revelation 12, verse 11 says, They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. We'll look at that a little bit later. The stealth bomber of the Christian church is Romans 8, verse 38.

Martyrdom as Spiritual Victory

38, 35 to 39. Let's just read this. I mean, I didn't want you to get the impression that we're the schtilla in Demlanda. We're just little calves for milquetoast walking around that aren't involved and engaged in any kind of conflict.

We are in a tremendous battle, but we don't ever pick up the weapons of the flesh. We use better weapons and win a greater victory. Romans 8, verse 35, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written, For thy sake we're killed all the day long. We're counted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, all these things were more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I'm persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You can't beat. They'll die, but you can't conquer this. You just can't conquer it. The just war people, the people who believe there's such a thing as a just war, there's a bad nation. This Christian nation should go and punish this nation.

They have very little New Testament support. They have to go to the Old Testament. In fact, that's the problem with their whole theology. They have a flat Bible, and the Old Testament is right along with the New Testament.

They ignore vast passages of the New Testament or explain them away with questionable theology. Turn to Luke 7, verses 1 -10. Here's one of them. Now, when He had ended all His sayings in the audience of the people, He entered into Capernaum and a certain centurion's servant...

That word is slave, by the way. I want you to just remember that. This centurion had a slave. Who was dear unto him. And he was sick and ready to die. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him elders of the Jews and so on.

He goes down through and Jesus said this was a man of great faith and so on. And people say, well, he didn't tell him to quit being a centurion. That is an argument from silence. I do know that he had a slave.

You can use the same justification for slavery from this passage. And they did. During the early days of the 1800s, many preachers used this passage. This man had a slave. And Jesus did not tell him to get rid of his slave.

So therefore, we can all own slaves. Now, the fact of the matter is Jesus didn't always say everything that needed to be said to people. He often planted seeds and expected them to grow. He said to the rich young ruler, go sell everything you had.

Come follow me. And the guy walked away and Jesus said nothing more to him. We don't know what happened to him either. In fact, there's a legend. I like this one, but you can't prove it from Scripture.

That that guy was Barnabas. I like to think that's true. It took a long time, but it bore fruit. Finally, see, people don't understand. And we use that same method. We plant seeds. We don't say you got to do this and this and this and this.