Family of God - Growth Gap — Ralph Sutera

Spiritual Infancy and Lifelong Maturity

God goes to work among his people. When he does that, those who respond to him, who responded to him, need to understand that they are just really babies in the spiritual walk. They are just babies in the spiritual walk.

They must always remain as learners, remain as learners in walking with God. And they must always be quick to deal with sin and any misjudgments that might come about in their Christian life. I'm talking now about those who are just entering into the spiritual walk, must see themselves this way.

Must also remember that there are others ahead of them spiritually, no matter how recent their response. Unconsciously, some of us think that because we were the last ones to respond to God, we must be the holiest people in the church.

After all, we were the last ones to have a direct line to heaven. Implication is that I'm the closest to God because I was the last one to talk to him, in a very real way. And yet the truth is that you can be filled with the Spirit in a few moments, but spiritual maturity is the process of a lifetime.

It's the process of a lifetime. This is not in your notes. I'll tell you where you can find this. Tomorrow night you can purchase a copy of the manual entitled, Where do you fit in the local church? And this will be in it.

The Spiritually Minded Christian

Spiritually minded members in a church, spiritually minded members. When God works in a church, the spiritually minded ones will understand and will rejoice. Those who are already walking in the Spirit.

They will also recognize that it's God's timing for certain people in the congregation to respond to God. And then they will realize their responsibility to those who have responded. Because they recognize walking in the Spirit is something new to many people.

It's a whole new lifestyle. Those who've been walking this lifestyle know the perils, they know the dangers. And therefore they are prepared and will understand those who are just entering in to what it means to walk with God at a different level, at a deeper level.

They will also intercede in prayer. A spiritually minded member of the congregation will intercede in prayer for those who are just entering in to the Spirit control walk. Recognizing how vital and important it really is.

They will also minister to any excesses and misjudgments of those who are just beginning to walk in the Spirit. In other words, they will minister. If you're a spiritual Christian in the congregation, when he sees a person who's just beginning to walk in the Spirit, making an error or misjudgment, then the spiritually minded one will minister to that.

He will also resist any temptation to devaluate what God is doing simply because of the excesses. Or casualties, or even the imperfections of the human instruments that God saw fit to use. A spiritually minded Christian will minimize the imperfections of the instruments and any excesses.

He will resist the temptation to just make judgments on those things. He will also deal with any discouraging influences. In other words, if he senses there are other people in the congregation who are trying to discourage those who are walking in the Spirit, saying, ah, that's emotionalism, ah, that won't last, and all the rest of it.

A spiritually minded Christian will relate to that. He will go after a person like that and say, brother, you have no right talking like that, and I want to rebuke you. No, no, no. And I'm praying for you that God's going to show you the danger of discouraging others.

And then, of course, he will always communicate and minister to other people in the congregation who don't understand what's happening. Those who have been respected spiritually in the congregation and appreciate what God's doing, when they sense there are certain people who don't understand what's happening, then they will take it on themselves as a responsibility to minister very specifically to those who are not sure what it is that God is doing.

All I've done for you is said that you will be able to recognize the spiritually minded Christians in a congregation by how they relate to what God is doing. Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone need to respond to a prayer room in a crusade ministry like this.

But I am saying that everyone needs to be responsive to the Holy Spirit. Spiritually minded Christians will be recognized by their responsive attitude or relationship to anything God the Holy Spirit may be saying to them in a very real way.

Responding When Others Do Not Understand

Now, when we talk about ministering and relating to each other, so what about people who don't understand what has happened to me? How can I relate to those around about me? You have on your sheet, on the back side of it, an article that says, what about those in my church or in my family who do not understand what has happened to me?

What about those? Maybe you've run into some in the congregation already or friends who you've tried to explain to. You know what the problem is? When you say to somebody, you ought to come down to our church or to this church, we're having a revival.

Well, they say, well, I hope you have a good one. You know, they know what revival means to them. Seven days of meetings that they wish they could do without. And then you, when you sense their coldness, then you try to say, no, no, but this is a real revival.

And immediately they say to themselves, uh-oh, fanaticism. You see, in one it's not enough, in the other it's too much. And that's what happens. It happens to people in a congregation. There are some people who don't enter in simply because they think that revival is just a passing fancy.

And then there are others when they sense you're getting so really excited about what God's trying to do, they say, uh-oh, be careful, he's on the verge of fanaticism. And so, the difficulty is how to relate to people.

Well, look at where the arrow is. The worst thing to do and the biggest danger is to sit and soak and sour over those who do not sweeten up and understand you. That's the worst thing you can do. Well, what does it mean if people don't understand me?

How do I relate to it? I am not going to take the time to read it tonight, but you need to study that page when you go home. And all I'm suggesting at this point is that it is a tremendous experience and a tremendous test for you to prove how really dead you are to your own rights.

Look what number one says. The experience is a good test of your death to self and your surrendered rights. Does it bother you that people don't understand what's happened to you? Is your commitment big enough for that too?

You see, if it really bothers you, then how dead are you? You know, when a man is really dead, you can pinch him and he doesn't move. Actually, a dead man really never worries about his reputation. Now, before he died, he really was worried about that.

He really was worried about it. Now, he says to his children, now you cut the grass. We don't want our neighbors thinking that we're sloppy in the neighborhood. You don't want this place to look wrong, cut the grass.

Tonight, by the time I come home, make sure it's cut. Shovel the rock. We want to do our part in keeping this neighborhood right. On and on. He's mighty concerned about his reputation. But when he dies, that's one thing he's not concerned about anymore.

Have you ever seen a man in a casket? When people come filing by, view his remains and pay his respect, he just kind of winks at them a little bit and he says, I wonder what he's thinking about me now.

Oh, here comes that neighbor of mine. I wonder now what he's thinking about me. See, that's one thing he doesn't worry about when he's dead, his reputation. While he's alive, he does everything to really be concerned about that.

But when he dies, now he's concerned about more important things, huh? What have I said? There are very few times I even use an analogy of a casket in relation to death in the spiritual life. Just because of fear that people will get the idea that once you surrender the rights of your life to God, you're completely dead and there's one of two things, nothing left to you, or secondly, you'll have no more problems the rest of your life.

And both of those are wrong. Now you see, I've just taught you a lesson in reverse, from the negative. But the truth really is that when we respond and we react negatively to the way people see us and the way people feel about us and the way people don't misunderstand us, that is one of the sure signs that we're really not as dead as what we said we were.

In other words, we need to even surrender that right to God, to even be viewed properly. And when we do that, it will make a tremendous difference in the way we just let God be God. Now I'm not suggesting that we just do anything we want and carry on any way we want and so who cares, that's not it.

But if we are walking with a genuine concern to be right and to live the right kind of a life and to be the right kind of example, don't you ever think you're going to please all the people all the time?

You'll never do that. Jesus was not able to do it and you're no better than your master, so what makes you think you're going to be able to do it? And especially being we're imperfect, if he couldn't do it as the perfect son of God, how do we ever expect to do it as imperfect beings?

Now I'm not going to read the rest of that page, except to say that that page will go on and give you my ideas and my thoughts about what happens when I react disfavorably, when people do not understand what's going on in my heart and in my life.

It's a very important page. Now with that as a frame of reference, let's take a look at the family of God. Let's take a look at the family of God. Now we need to fill it in. Let's just see if we can come to grips with what it is.

Four Classes in the Family of God

There are four classes of people. You notice them on the right-hand side of your paper. Four classes. There are the spiritual, the hungry-hearted ones, the casual ones, and the carnally-minded ones.

Now how does it all happen? Well, it all happens this way. We all come into the family of God. We are born again by the Spirit of God. We are born again by God's Holy Spirit. And we come into the family at the cross.

And the truth is that we then have the choice. Either we are going to learn what it means to walk in the Spirit, or else we will walk as Mr. Average Christian, walk in the flesh. You see? One is walking in the Spirit.

The other is walking in the flesh. One is Mr. Normal Christian, and the other is Mr. Average Christian. So when a man says to me, he says, you know, I think I'm as good as the average Christian in the church, you haven't really said too much.

Average Christianity is not worth talking about. But the normal Christian is altogether different. Let me correct this just a minute. Let me fix that. There we are. Alright, now what are some of the characteristics?

What are some of the characteristics? Let's find out the characteristics. Here we are, first of all. The spiritually minded individual, spiritually minded one, is one who rejoices, who rejoices when God goes to work in the life of a congregation, or in other people's lives.

He rejoices. He is also one who is very thankful. He is very thankful to see other people entering into the Spirit-controlled life. Very thankful. And he is also responsive. He always has a spirit that is ready to respond to whatever it is God wants to say to him.

Responsive to what God says. And actually his text, his light verse, could very readily be Philippians 3 .10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his suffering being made conformable unto his death.

He just loves that truth. Here he is, the spiritually minded one, here he is, walking in the Spirit. There they are, here are the Spirit-controlled men, normal Christians, walking the Calvary Road, walking in the Spirit.

That's one class. Aren't you glad for that class of people in a congregation? Those who rejoice when God works, those who are thankful to see others entering in, those who are always responsible, always open for God to show them something else in their personal life that needs to be made right.

Then secondly, there are the hungry-hearted ones. And I have the hungry-hearted ones down here as group letter B. Down here. Those are the people who respond during a ministry like this. They responded to what it is God has been saying.

They are very responsive and responded. They respond positively. Responds positively. Or if it's he, he responds positively. Responds positively. And Isaiah 1, 19 -21 is a good text for him. The text is primarily the fact that if ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat of the fruit of the land.

That's it. If ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured by the sword. But if ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat of the fruit of the land. That's the truth. So in willingness and obedience, he responds with hungry hearts.

So here they are. See here? See these two men here? See them? They came to the meetings. They were as Mr. Average Christian. But they responded to what God was saying. They knelt at the foot of the cross as it were.

Or they bowed in humility and said God was sick and tired of living that kind of life. Now you notice there's another fellow here. There's another fellow here that has not been picked up by his hair. See here?

He has not been transplanted. That one there? What's wrong with him? Well, that's the reminder that there are some hungry-hearted people who are here who have not responded during a crusade. But that doesn't mean they're not hungry-hearted.

It means that God has used the crusade to take them a step closer to total commitment, total surrender of their rights, the rights of their life to God. And God will use the days and the future to minister specifically to them.

The implication is clear that none of us, and I've already stated, none of us are suggesting that everybody needs to be in the prayer room. And not all are ready to be in the prayer room. There are some who these days have been just a tremendous time of moving you one step closer to that point where you'll say alright God, I'm sick and tired of running my own life and I'm going to let you have every area.

And so, there you are. Yet, they have hungry hearts. Then the third group in the church are those that I call the casual. The casual Christians in the church. Or the casual attenders on Sunday morning.

Casual Christianity and Carnal Resistance

There's a thin line there as to whether or not some of these people are saved. I'm sure some of them are not. But then there's some who say well I'm saved and I'm not going to doubt. That's between them and God.

But they cannot relate. They cannot relate to the truth. Why? Because they are too casual about it. They're the kind who just show up once a week and pay their respects to God on Sunday morning. They come to church on Sunday morning the same way they go to work on Monday morning.

They've been doing it for so long that it's a habit, it's a lifestyle. And after all, they're not Hindus, they're not Buddhists, they're not Confucianists, they're not Muslims. They are Christians because they like Canada.

They love the Western society. They love the culture. And this culture is considered the Judeo-Christian, that's the right way to say it, ethics. Those are the ethics that permeate our lifestyle. Therefore, after all, they're not heathen.

They'd say they believe in God. So they have to show up to show that they are, in quotes, Christian. And they may not have too much more than that. Maybe a little more. Anyhow, they cannot relate to what's been going on here.

Who cut my mic down? They cannot relate to what's going on here because they're just not ready, they're just not in the frame of heart and mind to enter into the truth of walking spirit. So there they are, casual.

And so they go along as Mr. Average Christian. You see, those who are on the Calvary or this way, they're walking the way of the cross. But Mr. Average Christian, you see, you notice how I have this slanted?

I have it slanted slightly upward, slightly upward, but a slow, great upward. Some kind of progress, but we're not really sure what kind. And then there are the carnally-minded Christians, those who are committed to walk in flesh.

They resist and will not respond. They resist what God says. They resist any attempt to be wakened from their self-sufficiency. Especially if it's clouded, no, not clouded, it's encroached, what is that?

It's covered with, no, that's not a good word either. What am I looking for? It is enhanced, that's all right, enhanced by their religious reputation and the fact that they teach Sunday school and the fact that they have a good standing in the church and they are looked up as people with a lot of influence and their self-will and self-sufficiency and self-pride just keeps them stayed in that posture.

They will not respond. And they are in the category of Proverbs 28, 13, covering their sin. They're not going to spiritually prosper no matter how religious it sounds. And of course, in Galatians chapter 5, the reminder that the flesh wars against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh and the two will never be on the same team, they'll never be in the same army, they will never be able to be compatible one with another.

They are the four classes of people in the church. Now, how do we relate to them? How do we relate? Before I suggest how we relate, notice something. The problem is this. The problem is this. You see these three groups here?

They were all close friends. They were all close friends walking the same direction in the church. Now something happens. And this is what happens during crusade ministry specifically. Some of them got so excited about coming to the meetings and now they got sick and tired of going this way but instead they are now saying, all right, let's start walking this way.

Now, they are beginners in the spiritual walk. That's what I said. Beginners in the spiritual walk. Why don't we tighten the auditorium a little bit? If there's room near you, move toward the center so the room can be open off the aisles.

These people just keep on coming for the next hour. Just tighten just a little bit so there'll be room for others to keep coming in. Now, because these people, because these people have responded to God and they are no longer on this level but they are now on this level up here, there now is a gap.

The gap is between from where they were down here to where they are up here. Here is the gap. It's from here to here. If you take their heads, it's from head to feet here. From here to here. See that?

They were here. Now they are on this level up here. That is not a division. They did not cause some fight in the church. They didn't come in with some new heresy. They didn't get in trouble with somebody in the church and now they are in a different class.

What happened was they got sick and tired of just living as a status quo walking the flesh. And God spoke to their hearts and they responded to what God said. And now they are on this level. That's what causes a gap.

It's from where they were to where they are now. Here is the gap. There is the gap. Now, what kind of a gap is it? Here is what it is. It's a growth gap. It is a growth gap. It is 2nd Peter 3 .18 where we are reminded.

You have that on the bottom of your page as well. It's a growth gap. Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our blessed Lord. It's the idea, it's the truth that they now are ready to really grow. They are tired of the status quo.

Standing still. It is a growth gap. Now, the problem is how do we relate? How do we relate to all of those people in the congregation? How do we relate to each of those groups? It is not a division. It is a gap.

Relating Across the Growth Gap

Let's see if we could... Oops! Get the paper off here. How do we relate? Here is how we relate. See that all right? All right, the first ones. To the spiritually minded ones in a congregation. Well, first of all, before I say that, we must always consider temperament differences.

Temperament. That word is temperament. Whenever you talk about how you are going to relate to people, you must always consider the temperament differences between individuals. We talked about that yesterday.

That you don't minister to one person just the same way you do to the other because none of us are alike. The temperament differences. And that's why the study of spirit-controlled temperaments is very important.

See, you don't expect certain people to respond the same way others do simply because their temperaments are totally different. The commitments can be the same, but the response is different the way it comes about because of temperaments.

Therefore, how do we relate to people? After we've considered their temperaments. To the spiritually minded ones in a congregation. You relate, first of all, by loving them. Loving them. And then always be thankful to God for giving them to you in a congregation.

That's this group up here. Letter A. Those who have already been walking in the spirit. You love them and you are thankful to God for having them as close friends in a congregation. What about the hungry-hearted ones?

Those who are here. Letter B. Who responded to what it was God was saying. How do you relate to them? You love them. Love them. And then you pray for them. You pray for them. In other words, if you had them on your prayer list before, praying that God would touch them, now you do not take them off your prayer list because God has ministered to them, but rather you underline their name on your prayer list twice as heavy as it was before.

Why? Because if they are responding to God, you know the devil doesn't like it. And you know he's going to be after them. Therefore, they need that much more prayer support than ever before. And then you minister to them.

You have a responsibility to see to it that babes in the spirit-filled walk are ministered to on a regular basis. One-on-one, as well as in the collective body context. And you sense any of them are faltering in any direction, you just minister to them.

Because they're open, they're hungry. They're sitting with their mouths open, as it were, saying, put the worm right here. Put the spaghetti right here. You know, you understood that George Washington in my country never ate spaghetti.

First President of the United States, he never ate spaghetti. You say, well, how do you know? Because in one of his speeches, he said, beware of foreign entanglements. But you know there are people that are now hungry.

They're ready for the entanglements. Here, you know, he couldn't say that in Wesley Chapel. He couldn't come to your international supper, which is on June the 10th. Isn't it tomorrow? Don't you have your international supper tomorrow?

Before we leave? So, minister to people that are hungry-hearted. That's what I'm saying. Don't let them walk out feeling they've not been fed, or don't let them sense as if you're no longer anxious to be close to them in ministry, where they're hurting, whatever situation.

And what a tremendous opportunity you have right here in this church now. Door wide open for them. And what about the casual ones, those who could not relate to it? Keep on loving them. Keep on praying for them.

And then minister to them whenever it is possible. Minister whenever it is possible. Whenever they allow you to do it. See, there come times where they may open up somehow, they may give you a chance to minister.

Whenever it's possible, minister to them. What about those who refuse to enter into what God wants to do? For whatever reason. Calmly minded, will not respond. It's not they cannot respond, they will not.

They are committed to their self-sufficiency. What do you do about that group in a congregation? Well, here's what you do. Love them. Only notice I put the word more. The others I just said love them.

But now I'm saying this group, love them more. Love them more than ever before. That's this group right here. Love them more than ever before. Intensify your love. Don't isolate yourself from them. But love them more now.

You see, they are really hurting. And they need to be loved more than ever before. And the more a person hurts, the more he needs to be loved. You don't isolate yourself from when he hurts, even though he may not understand why.

Then you pray for them more than ever before. And then you commit them to God. You commit them to God. You commit people like that to God. In other words, you are as a spirit-controlled believer to be submissive to God, but not to be shove-missive onto God's people.

Be submissive to God, but not shove-missive. You don't shove people. You just take your hands off. Say, God, I want to commit that couple or that family or that individual to Thee. Thou knowest all about him.

I'm just going to love him and keep on loving him and keep on loving him. You see, when love permeates, then truth penetrates. But you don't punch a man in the nose and knock him flat on his back. And once he's flat on his back, lean over to him in a soft, tender, sweet, compassionate voice and say, Brother, I really love you.

He won't believe that. See, you must love him first. You know what happens when you really love people with Calvary love? You know what really happens in many cases? You can punch people in the nose and they didn't even know they were punched.

Because of love. The truth penetrates when love permeates. So, commit them to God. Keep on praying, keep on loving them. Commit them to God. And then, wait for the opportunity to minister to them. You wait for the opportunity.

Spiritual Surgery and Readiness for Change

Well, what do you mean by that? And it's the crux of the matter in relation to this whole truth. You see, not everybody is ready for major surgery. Not everybody is ready for major surgery. Not everybody.

You, if you were here in these days and you were ready for major surgery, you ought to just thank God. Thank God that he spoke to your heart and he allowed you to have enough sense to respond and thank God for it.

But you must always keep in mind how long it took for you to be ready for major surgery. Do you remember that first time when you went to the doctor and the first time he said to you, Sally, you know, I can give you some pills but you're going to need major surgery.

The fact that he even said it gave you a stomachache. Do you remember how you reacted to that? Oh, major surgery. Not that. And he said, Doctor, can you please just give me a few more pills? By the way, those of you who weren't here this morning, we had quite a pill-flushing out time, didn't we?

The testimony of people who were delivered from the use of all kinds of pills and drugs and stuff like that. I said, all kinds of people? Not all kinds of people. All kinds of pills and drugs. Stuff like that.

But the point is, Do you remember when you said, Doctor, can't you give me a few pills to get over the hump? And the doctor said, yes, I can give you a few pills but you're going to need major surgery.

Oh, don't say it, Doctor. Don't say it. So, he gives you a few pills. You go home, you take those pills, prescription is gone. And all at once the pain comes back. You call the doctor's office. You tell the nurse, Nurse, would you please tell the doctor, can he prescribe something stronger than the last pills?

And the doctor says to the nurse, You tell that lady, tell Sally, Yes, I'll prescribe something. She can go to the drugs and get it. But remind her that she needs major... No, no, no, don't even say it.

Don't tell me what I need. Isn't it amazing how we resist major surgery? Sure, that's human, isn't it? Just think how long you put up with the pain in your system. Spiritually. Knowing that mecuricrome and band-aids and patch-up job would never make the difference.

And yet not willing for God to do major surgery in your life. So, whenever you see people around you who are not responding to what God's saying, and you say, what's wrong with those people? They ought to know better.

Just ask God, cause you not to be slow of memory, short of memory. And remember how long it's been that God has had to strive with you in your self-sufficiency before you are ready for major surgery.

Finally, you get to the place where that pain is so bad and you carried on so long that one day when you have another attack, you call the doctor and you say, Doctor, please, can you get me in that hospital as soon as possible?

I can't stand it any longer. Now you're ready for major surgery. That's one way to be ready for major surgery. I'll tell you another way. If you have a pain in the stomach and doctor diagnoses it as a certain problem, you hear about somebody else that had the same problem.

And he has had major surgery. And that major surgery has come out so well that that person is like a brand new person. Now if you don't think your doctor is doing too well for you, you will probably go to that person who has already had major surgery and you'll say, can you tell me, who's your doctor?

Can you get me in to see him? You look like you're healthy again. And you had the same problem that I had. And I've seen that you've been living now for six months after that surgery and you're getting better all the time.

And anybody who's as healthy as you are, I want to be that healthy. Would you tell me, who is your surgeon? Sure, I'll tell you who my surgeon is. My surgeon is Jesus Christ. Now I'm getting spiritual, huh?

And if you allow him to do major surgery on you, you can be just as well as I am. What am I saying? You see, a person is sometimes ready for surgery when he takes a look at somebody else who has had the same problem he had and he sees how well he is.

That encourages him to have the same surgery. It's either the pain is more than he can bear or secondly, he sees somebody who's well who had the same problem. And I'm suggesting tonight that in the days ahead, you will have in this congregation both of those classes of people.

Some who have to get worse before they begin to get better. Some whose pain is yet not severe enough. Some whose self-sufficiency and pride and arrogance and egotistical attitude about their own spiritual maturity is such that God has to continue his work of breaking their heart.

And when he does it, then you know what they're going to do? They're going to come to you if they see you are well and say, tell me, how can I enter into that same kind of surgery? I've watched you for six months, I've watched you for one year and I've seen how well it is taken.

Now, I'm ready for the same kind of surgery. So what have I said? I have said that the bottom line is that those who have already had the major surgery are the people most responsible to see to it that by your wholeness and by your recovery and by the whole new quality of life that God gives you, you will create an appetite in the lives of other people who are not yet ready for that surgery, who still don't think your surgery is going to last.

You know, some of them are really not tuned, they're not sure which doctor you really went to. Some of them think that the twins did it. And in some cases that might be true and that's why it won't last because Lou has never had any real good learning in major surgery.

He's a preacher, he's not a surgeon. And that's why the Lord gave him a twin brother to try to help straighten out some of the things that he says in teaching. I'm saying that if all you had is something that you think the twins did for you, then that surgery is not going to be correct.

But if you are convinced and committed to the fact that God has done it and you keep on walking that way in the softness and the sweetness of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, there will be such a healing process that will take place and such a whole new dimension to your Christian life that people are not going to be able to resist it.

They're going to see the difference. I have had letters time after time from pastors who will say six months later, a year later, one of two things. One is, it is amazing to me to see now how people who did not respond during the crusade are now entering in because of the tremendous change they've seen in those who met God during the crusade.

And I have also had the letter saying, you have no idea now how the youth group has had a revival six months, eight months, a year later. And the pastor will say, I am absolutely convinced that the reason is because the teenagers have seen the tremendous change in their parents and now they are convinced it is real.

It's not just here and gone tomorrow, but now six months, eight months, a year later, they can't deny it. And now they are ready to open their hearts to respond to God. I am saying tonight that the onus is on every spirit-controlled believer to walk in such a way in humility, in softness, in sweetness, not as a member of some holier-than-thou club, looking down at everybody else who has not entered in on the same level.

You know, I can still sense there are some people who are so glad for this revival because they know that there are people in this church that really needed it. And they are already looking down from their ivory tower that really is not as ivory as what it seems.

It's so easy to see through that kind of phoniness of people who are always so delighted that God finally has awakened everybody else who needed to meet God. Now what's going to change people like that?