Love Your Fellowman — Art Katz

It's our pleasure to introduce Arthur Katz, who is now directing Evangelism in New York City for the American Board of Missions to the Jews, a great organization that has done great work to reach Jewish people with the message of the Messiah.

God bless you, Arthur Katz, if you share what God has put upon your heart. Will you stand with me, please, as we read out of the Word of God, the 31st chapter of Jeremiah, starting with the 31st verse.

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they break, although I was a husband unto them, saith the Lord, but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel.

After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be my people and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more.

Precious holy God, bless us now by thy great spirit, Lord. Have thy perfect way with thy people through thy servants. Purge our lips, O God, and fashion the words that you would have spoken and deeply touch thy people.

Have thy way now, Lord. We bless thy name and praise thee and glorify thee, Jesus, because we ask it in thy great name. Praise God. Please be seated. I think if I had to find a word to express my single great burden as a Jewish man, it's that my people might know God.

That the knowledge of God might go forth over the face of the earth. As a former academician, high school teacher, university graduate, and laboring seven years with students for knowledge, I know that there's knowledge in knowledge.

There's a deep kind of knowing of God which can save the world. Unless we know God in spirit and in truth, we perish. They shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord.

Well, I staggered for thirty-four, thirty-five years without knowing God. The first conviction of my young adolescent life as a Jewish young man growing up in New York City was that God was the most preposterous fiction that had ever been foisted upon a gullible mankind.

And I felt really emancipated that my life was to be freed at so early an age from notions as tired and as worn as that. I was an obedient Jewish boy in a certain sense and went to Hebrew school daily where I was prepared for a single ceremony at the age of thirteen to oblige my mother that she might discharge her sense of Jewish obligation.

But I saw no evidence for the living God anywhere. My attitude toward religion, both Jewish and Gentile, was a pox on both your houses. I was a restless, sinking, hungry man. I could already sense, even before I had words to express it, that somehow the world had betrayed some deep design for our life.

That we were not truly human. That we were just batting at the air and going through all kinds of mechanical motions, just only too happy to feed our faces and to compromise and merely sustain ourselves on a physical level, but that that was not life.

I didn't know what life was, but I knew that somehow it had to be abundant. It had to be deep. It had to be something total. And I began a career as a high school dropout at the age of sixteen, seeking for life, and that more abundantly.

The name Jesus was among the most alien names that I knew. It was a curse word. It was something that I had delegated only to the Gentiles. It had nothing to do with us as Jews. I knew of Jewish people who had crossed the street, rather than let the shadow of the cross from a church fall upon them.

They considered it a curse. And indeed, that's what the name Christianity and Christ and the cross has meant to Jewish people for 1900 years. It's been a curse of oppression, exploitation, forced conversions, exile, pillage, rape, looting, and death.

How is God going to reach a people who have been steeped in that kind of tragic history and let them to know that their Messiah has come and in Him is life? It takes a miracle. And that miracle was wrought in my life six years ago when I was brought first to a place of death.

Death Working Life in the Jewish People

I don't know why, but the word death is just ringing in my heart this morning. Death, death, death. And I may be misquoting the scripture, but I know that there's a place in there where Paul speaks of death working in me that life might be worked in you.

I came to God as an act of death and every step in my life in God since has been from death unto life. Death working in me that life might go forth into the world. And Gentile Christian people occasionally come to me and say, Art, what is it about you Jewish believers?

You're so zealous. You're so completely caught up in the things of God. Every Jew I know is either in full-time service or among the most active people in their congregations. What is it about you Jews?

I think one thing is that we're Jews. Very peculiar people and people who are out of joint and out of place in the world. And there's no one who knows that better than Jews who have succeeded at the world's game and are laden with honors of every description and no one has to tell them that inside they're convinced that they're hollow men.

We've won every award that the world has in science, in culture, in music, in literature and we know that we're empty men and we're going to know it in this generation with such severity and such distress that our collective cry is going to go up before God.

In a certain sense, my sensibilities are jarred and tamed by the great travail and affliction that's coming upon the world and that I've had occasion to see even in Chicago. But on the other hand, I rejoice because I know that it's death which worketh life.

And the same thing which took place in my life and it's the only reason why my testimony is worth hearing because it's a perfect reflection of how a modern man and Jews, by the way, are modern men par excellence.

They have created the modern man. They've created the modern world. They've given this world its tone, its content, its ideologies, its attitude, its culture and its lifestyle. All you have to do is think of the great terminal thinkers in the 20th century.

You come up with names like Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud. And if you want to bring it right up to date, just throw in Jerry Rubin and A .B. Hoffman and you've got Jewish men who are molders and shakers of the world and of cities.

The Kent State Protests and the Failure of Slogans

It was just a couple of months ago when the four students were killed at Kent State that I was here at the University of Illinois at Chicago. I'd just come from the University of Illinois at Urbana where a curfew was called and there were the troops and the jeeps and it was like a wartime atmosphere.

I could hardly believe that this was happening in an American city. Our meetings had to be rescheduled because of the curfew and the strange atmosphere in which things were happening. Then we came to Chicago where a noon meeting had been called at the Chicago campus of the University of Illinois and that day they closed the campus for fear of violence and destruction.

So in a sense, our right to the amphitheater around which this whole university faculty was denied us. And the strike committee had itself circulated leaflets that day announcing that they were going to have a rally at that same amphitheater at noon.

So there's a conflict. And we sought out the strike committee and although the school was closed, I don't know how this happened, a building had been opened to them, the architecture building, and they were using the basement as their headquarters.

And I walked into an atmosphere that I could hardly believe. It was like a scene out of Franz Kafka or some existentialist writer or some way-out TV strip. And there were these students in every state of dress and undress stripped to the waist with their hair strewn over their faces and Indian-type bands around their foreheads and arms.

Some were wearing T-shirts with the letters MEDIC stamped out carrying first aid kits. It was a wartime atmosphere and it was an intoxicating, exuberant spirit that was possessing these young people that they themselves knew that they had power and that they had closed down this campus, they could well close down the establishment, they could well close down the world.

I tell you, that's a heady and intoxicating spirit and you're not ready to handle such a spirit at the age of 18, 19, or 20. And we told them that we had the legal right of that amphitheater but we understood that the school was closed so all that we would desire of them is if they would give us five to ten minutes on their program.

They hardly knew what we represented but they put us down as speaker. Our cats. And I had to sit for two hours in the boiling sun listening to speeches of the kind which I myself was making seven and eight years ago as a Marxist left-winger and radical and I tell you, it was a crushing bore.

It was so utterly inane. It was so bereft of life. It was so ceremonial. And I was struck, as I had never been struck before, that what this radical causes for these young people is a substitute religion.

But religion in its worst form. And if you've sat in churches and heard ceremonial talking and just maybe in parentheses if you've sat at full gospel meetings and heard ceremonial talking and there are other places where this goes on because the pure is always commingled with the other you know what a tremendous weight that is on our spirit.

It's only the spirit which brings us life. And I would see these guys make speeches one after another full of slogans, full of smart, clever things full of heavy phrases of destroying the destroyers and down with the imperialists and everyone exulting in their slogans and finally after two hours of this they said, now we have a speaker his name is, and they list on these sheets Art Katz he's got some religious spirit.

Are you here Katz? So I staggered out of the stand blinded by the sun almost suffering sun stroke my spirit crushed and I grabbed that microphone and I looked up into the stands and there were these bodies draped in every imaginable posture it might have been the kind of scene that had taken place in Rome in its days of worst debauchery and there were lunch bags and wrappers and leaflets and every kind of refuse and litter strewn in those stands and there were these kids some of them half naked draped over each other it was a scene that I'd seen not too long ago like that at Greenwich Village where they were just sitting on the rim of that Washington Square fountain and as I squinted my eyes I thought that these were these are snakes writhing and squirming this must be the pit of hell.

And I looked up and I didn't know what to speak as I don't know what to speak to you now as I never know what to speak but I praise God for his word that says that he gives us all utterance. And I began saying something like for two hours I've been sitting here and listening to your speeches and I want you to know that as a Jewish man I've been greatly concerned with the questions of righteousness and social justice all my life long.

But I have to say this also that you've been another reminder to me of just how inept and just how ceremonial and shallow our human solutions are mere words without any real substance and without life.

Here you've been lamenting the death of four students but it's only been a shabby sentimental lament. If you're really concerned with death you'll be the first to see the death which is in your own throat and your own mouth your sepulchers of death yourself you're quick to point the fingers of accusation with brim full of self-righteous indignation at the exploiter and the imperialist but slow to see the imperialist and the exploiter within.

You know how come I was able to say those things? Because that's exactly the revelation God gave me about my own heart and life. Six years before I had said the same slogan and I'd been filled with the same self-righteous indignation not realizing that I was the worst and the least.

Slogans are not going to save us. Not even Christian slogans. And I wondered why it was as a young child of God four and five years ago six years ago I used to somehow flinch when I would hear Christians say Christ is the answer.

Why did I flinch? And in a sense I knew it was true. And only recently God revealed to me why I was flinching. It's because it's a slogan. Slogans are not going to save the world. Even the slogan that Christ is the answer is not going to save the world.

But when it no longer is a slogan when it's an authentic reality when it's something that's creative in our heart and life Christ is the answer. And God wants us to shift gears from slogans to reality from doctrines to reality.

We've got all the right doctrines but we don't have the right reality. And if you would have the right reality I would not have had to wait 35 years to have discovered that my God lives. Because I wasn't an insulated Jew holed up in a ghetto in Brooklyn.

I was a wandering Jew like so many of my people and my Swedish brother broken off from the mainstream and just floating like like Watson and Jetson over the face of the earth to California on six different occasions looking for a city young, stupid, romantic thinking that if I found a certain city my soul would be at ease and only to find after city after city that it's only it's one universal rat race and hardly makes a difference what the accident of culture or language is.

But a city is not going to do it. No special vocation is going to do it. And sorrow upon sorrow and tragedy upon tragedy. No human relationship is going to do it either. And oh oh oh for the broken lives and bodies that have had the misfortune of crossing mine in the first 35 years of my life when I like some fiend was ready to suck blood and nutriment and life out of them.

There's not a woman made who can answer to that need. God bless you precious ladies. And there's not a man made that can answer to that need for you. And we're killing each other and cursing each other and destroying each other because of our terrible disappointment in each other because we're seeking for that relationship that's totally deep totally engaging that would mean life that only God himself can bring.

And we're making of each other gods. And we weren't designed that way. So I lived in a Christian country quote unquote for 34 years. And not a single Christian ever spoke to me about the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I traveled this country one side and down the other in every mode of transportation you can name including hitchhiking. And not a single Christian ever put in my hands a single piece of literature or a tract.

I didn't know a single thing in the Bible. And I'm amused or is it saddened now when Christian people come to me and say oh Art you must have a wonderful background in the Old Testament being Jewish. And I have to confess with shame and embarrassment that the first scripture I ever read was out of the New Testament.

I'm learning now the things of my heritage and my ancestry thanks to the kindness and the mercy and the grace of God. We Jewish people are in ignorance and in darkness. And I was a university graduate and I didn't know that Jesus Christ was the Greek name for Yeshua HaMashiach Jesus.

I didn't know that the New Testament was a Jewish book and that all of its characters are Jewish. I didn't know that Christianity was the fulfillment of our Jewish faith and that there's only one God and one way and one book and one salvation.

And it's the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I thought that the Gentiles had their religion and we Jews had ours and both equally bloodless a culture only. But one day, seven years ago as a man who had died see it's death which worketh life.

When I had come to the utter end of myself it took 34 years. It took succeeding to fail. Did you know that? Nothing fails like success. I'm turning it around because I who had been a high school dropout and who had brought my mother gray hair and who was distressed still waiting for nachos and satisfaction from her son finally had that day come.

When I was a high school teacher I was a professional I was a university graduate. And when I obtained all the things for which I had been in hot pursuit all my life long I realized then finally you're finished, Katz.

You have nothing. You are nothing. You have nothing to communicate to your students but your grief for a world that's dying. And what are your slogans? And what are your ideologies? And what are your anxious phrases about human brotherhood when you yourself are quite able to grind the heel in the face of one close to you all the while speaking the right slogans.

You know what I thought about my students? They weren't so innocent. They weren't so different from the adult generation outside them. That our little classroom was not just an innocent classroom. It was a microscopic universe.

And every great passion that rages in the world that brings death was raging in that room. See it hardly matters whether it's business success whether it's pursuit of nations whether it's economic advantage or just the obtaining of a grade.

We're human, all too human. And in my 34th year I came to this realization. Nothing that we have will avail. Psychiatry is not going to do it. Legislation is not going to do it. Marxism is not going to do it.

No human program is going to do it. Education is not going to do it. We've got to become some kind of new creature. But I didn't know how. So I took a year's leave of absence from teaching and began a trip that lasted 14 months.

I began it as an atheist seeking for philosophy. What else have modern men to seek? Although I had exhausted them all and I began to have the strangest series of encounters in the course of the 14 months of travel.

I remember gentile men that picked me up off the side of a road in Switzerland. I was pitch hiking by the way we teachers are not that well paid that we can travel for 14 months in any other fashion. I was a bum traveling with a knapsack living out of that for 14 months.

I was a foreboding, angry looking sight having learned what it means to stand for two or three hours in the drizzle and the rain by the side of the road. And a man picked me up one day in a brand new car and didn't just wait behind the wheel and get me to come on, hurry up tell him I'm doing you a favor.

He got out of the car and he greeted me at the side of the road beaming from ear to ear as if I were doing him the favor. You know what my first suspicion was? I'd been around and this guy took my filthy rucksack and tossed it in the back seat of his car.

When I thought I'd hit the brand new poultry. I winced for him and I looked at his face he hadn't even noticed. I thought, what manner of man is this? And he made me sit down on a front seat and made me to feel like the exalted guest as if I were doing him the favor.

And you know people you can't get someone to feel that way by feigning it. And he turned and looked at me as we drove off and he could see I was not a high school kid. It was well past the tourist season.

And he asked me in German he said, why are you traveling? As I could, I tried to explain in my broken way. I said, I'm a modern man. What I should have said is I'm THE modern man. I'm modern man personified I've drunk deeply from the fountains of modern life.

Or is it a fountain? It's a cistern that's cracked. And I said I'm seeking for a foundation to my life. My foundations have crumbled. And for some reason when I told this stranger I told him I'm Jewish now.

I didn't share that with most Gentiles. Because most Gentiles they grunt or they nod or they go silent or they scratch their heads or worse. But you know what happened to this man when I just conveyed that little piece of information?

He began to glow and radiate like a neon tube. His face literally began to shine. Oh and he insisted right away that we stop for refreshments at his expense. For which I was grateful. And we had a conversation that day at that Swiss coffee house that I'll never forget.

And I'm so grateful for this opportunity now. And I didn't seek it. I praise God for that. No wheeling and dealing. I was a wheeler and dealer for 34 years. A pox on that to be free in Christ is to be free indeed.

And if God wants to bring something to pass He will. And if He doesn't want to bring it to pass I don't want it either. But I think God wants you to know this. Because many of you ask Art, how do you witness to a Jewish person?

Art, how do I share the things of God with my Jewish friends? And I want you to know. And I know that you do know there's no mechanical way. There's a precious Holy Spirit of God who knows that Jew better than He knows Himself.

And you know what that man did with me that day? He kept his mouth shut and he listened. I won't say he listened. He heard. Hearing is a deep act of love. And I found myself pouring out to this entire stranger the content and burden of my life.

I spared nothing. Every single grimy detail that I had not shared with mother, wife, friends I was sharing with this strange Gentile. I thought to myself cats, what are you doing? As if a dam had burst out it came.

And he wasn't gingerly holding up his skirt for fear that it was going to trail in the dirt. He was reheating my life into his. It's painful but it's an act of love. We're so desperate to be heard. We're willing to pay $25 for a half hour.

And we'll experience a therapeutic effect just to be heard. And when I finished and I came to the end of myself leaning back exhausted and world weary. And I looked at this man. He wasn't anything very special to look at.

I thought, what is he going to say to me? Is he going to tell me now about philosophy? Big deal. I've been an existentialist, a Marxist, a pragmatist you name it. And I've wrestled with it and gone through it.

Is he going to tell me about ideologies and mass movements and politics? Why my God, I've belonged to half a dozen organizations on the Attorney General's list. I distributed leaflets and carried packets when these kids still had pacifiers.

When it was dangerous to be a radical. There's nothing new under the sun. And this man turned to me. And he said you know, Art, what the world needs? And I looked with my arrogant. I was very arrogant haughty, angry, safe, skeptical.

I said, watch he said, what the world needs, Art is for men to wash one another's feet. How did he know? How did he know that the one great crushing burden of my life was the inability of men to be reconciled to each other.

My heart was broken because wherever I looked I saw division and enmity in stripes. Students and teachers, black and white Jew and Gentile, male and female husband and wife. Wherever I looked, rich and poor enmity and division breaking and crushing the human race.

And when he spoke that one line Art, what the world needs is for men to wash one another's feet. Something exploded in my heart. I felt pieces and smithereens and fragments flying around inside my chest.

Saliva began running in my mouth. There was an inner cry that went up from my heart. It said, Eureka, catch this is it by a simple spirit of humility and love. The world could be changed overnight without a drop of blood being spilled.

And what have your ideologies and philosophies brought mankind but contention, suffering, strife and death. And I had a vision in that same moment of the arrogant and the haughty peoples of the world humbling themselves to wash the feet of the lowly and the despised.

We're not going to take three centuries of racial hatred in America and devise a legislative program to overcome that. Please turn this tape over to hear the balance of the message. We're not going to take three centuries of racial hatred in America and devise a legislative program to overcome that.

And I remember when I was a high school teacher and one of my black brothers was at the other side of the lunch table with me in the school cafeteria. And he said, Artie, all I want is a legal right to sit opposite you and eat.

I said, big deal. So you'll masticate your food on one side and your guts will be churning within you and I'll masticate my food on the other side and shoot darts at you with my eyes. And you'll have your legal right.

That kind of eating is death. The kind of eating that's life is the breaking of bread in love, see. That's not going to come by a piece of legislation. That's going to come by the washing of feet by the humbling of the haughty and the arrogant.

When we'll recognize that there's no man good, no not one. That there isn't a good guy and a bad guy. We're all bad guys. There's no man good. That's the knowledge that the world needs lest we perish.

It's the knowledge that came to the prophet Isaiah when he was already in God's service. He was already a choice oracle. He was already the prince of the prophets. But then he caught a glimpse of God high and lifted up and he cried out, oy vey that's Jewish oy vey my people have been beating their chests for centuries crying, oy vey for the wrong things.

But I'm waiting to hear that one last great oy vey when my Jewish people are going to have the experience that their prophet Isaiah had and they're going to catch a glimpse of God high and lifted up his glory filling the temple.

No more slogans, no more cliches no more religion as culture but something deeply spiritual something authentic out of the bosom and the heart of the living God. And they're going to cry, oy vey, I'm undone.

I'm a man of unclean lips and I live, Mr. People of Unclean Lips. You'll never understand yourself until you catch a glimpse of him. It's a double revelation. It's the same revelation that came to Job who spoke so eloquently he was so righteous.

But when he caught a glimpse of the living God before whose creation we tremble he said, I spoke once, I spoke twice. But now I stop my mouth. I abhor myself and I repent in dust and ashes. And then God spoke to Job's comforters.

The theologians the ones that have all the slick and right answers. My wrath is kindled against thee because you've not spoken as my servant Job has spoken. There's only one thing that I want to hear from you my creation.

I want to hear, oy vey, I'm undone. I want to hear you say you abhor yourself. That you spoke once or twice. But now you're going to stop your mouth. That's the only fit thing in the presence of the Most High God.

The world is choking on its arrogance and its conceit and self-righteous indignation. And we're going to kill each other. That our programs might be affected. And literally we will. That's the spirit that the devil has been pouring out over these great campuses.

The Collision of Two Kingdoms and the Call to the Cross

So when I began speaking that day to these kids and they began to catch wind of what I was saying. Cries began to come up around that amphitheater. How did he get the microphone? What's this got to do with the strike?

And when I started preaching Jesus I heard the cries give us Barabbas, give us Barabbas. The day is not far off and we're going to hear also. Crucify them, crucify them. Two worlds are in collision people.

And we're right down to the final showdown. Two kingdoms in collision. And now I wondered and how I was perplexed as a young child of God when I came back from Jerusalem six years ago to take up my place in a Christian Pentecostal congregation in California.

Where's the persecution I used to ask? Where's the persecution? Why this couldn't be more conceit. We're sitting right in. We're part of the establishment. Everything is nice and pleasant. We have a little fellowship among ourselves and we go home.

Where's the persecution? I never did experience it until God brought me into this work with my own people. And I stood on a soapbox at Broadway and 72nd Street in New York and began preaching the gospel.

I began to taste persecution but I also began to taste the glory of God. That same night in Chicago of the day that I'm describing to you. I was invited to speak at a great youth rally at a Pentecostal church of a great Pentecostal denomination.

And I sat on that platform hot and sweaty and tired and dirty. We had been all afternoon talking with the students on the grass. My pants were stained. I had been sitting on my Bible and my Bible was falling apart and I had a black tape to hold the seams together.

And I had a big black stripe down the back of my pants and I hadn't hardly had time to wash and to collect my thoughts and senses. And I looked on the platform and the platform was just laden with the sharpest men of God with their double-breasted mod suits and wide lapels and ties and well-cultivated sideburns and they were just real sniffy.

This is my first and last time with the full gospel ministry. I looked out on that audience and there were these beautiful well-dressed middle-class kids. Their faces were shined and scrubbed and every hair neatly in place and they came for a good time.

There was a good time spirit and I got the signal. I got a little poke. Now I ought to give them the testimony. Send them home. Rah, rah, rah get them all fired up a little pep talk. But you know what happened to me as I was sitting on that platform there was a still small voice that kept saying over and over again I ought to preach on the cross.

I ought to preach on the cross. I ought to preach on the cross. And I was arguing with God on the platform. I said, Lord can't you see this is not the time and the place these kids have just come for a pep talk.

The hour is late. I can't see even these kids holding their Bibles. I'm confused and I'm out of joints and in my eyes I still have that burning image of these kids with their hair strewn down over their faces and they're utterly perplexed and distraught.

And these two images of two generations one over the other. I'm diminished. It's a Jewish word. I'm confused and I'm perplexed and I don't have coherence. I don't know what to say. I'm just a broken man.

I ought to preach on the cross but it's a young audience and I know the message you're troubling me with. I've never spoken it, Lord. Because I know you wanted me to show that the cross is the one message of the whole book.

It's an Old Testament message and that I should begin in the Old Testament and go into the New and that this is only the kind of searching of the word that only the deepest children of God would enjoy.

This is the time it's not the place every human reckoning says no and they said Art, we're going to give you the service at 8 o 'clock. But they didn't tell me they were going to have a competition that night most favorite pastor competition and they had this platform with the last three top contestants and one guy had 2 ,362 points the other guy had 2 ,122 and they got 50 points if someone shined their shoes and 100 points if someone washed their car 1 ,000 points if someone cleaned their Sunday school rooms and they were reading off these point totals and I was dying dying dying.

Then they finally called on me gave me a nice little introduction peppy and I just dragged my body and you know what the first words out of my mouth were? I cried out to God God, I'm tired of being tried.

I'm tired of these deaths. Why can't I have a patchy situation just this once. Why is it always situations like at the University of Illinois at Urbana where they had my name plastered all over the campus and without my saying so our cast was coming our cast was coming.

And then the first meeting at the State Union Building at noontime where every afternoon they have another radical spewing out of Senator Dean Phil and they said now here's our cast. And they pushed me out in the midst of two or three hundred students who were just waiting like this oh boy we'll carve this guy up and send him home wrapped in bandages.

And I didn't know what to say. I don't have wisdom I don't know how in a human way to convince people about the reality of God. But I saw miracles for eight days four to six times a day from one meeting to another just I could.

Every meeting went overtime. The reaction was fantastic and fierce. It was explosive. Students were climbing the walls and ceilings and nodding their fists and anguishing and gnashing their teeth and foaming at the mouth and crying and insane and madman and fanatic and sick.

But at every meeting where the invitation was given souls would cry out to receive the Lord Jesus. The last of these meetings at a Jewish fraternity house ZBC the wealthiest most famous on the campus and the only ground on which they were going to have me if I would debate with a professor from the university who teaches comparative religions who speaks half a dozen Semitic languages as well as Greek and is conversant with the Bible.

And he's an expert on this, that, and the other. And they called me long-distance. Ah, ah can you can you handle this? The only condition that the Jewish that the Jewish fraternity house will have you invite other Jewish students.