Remembering Voddie Baucham & The Future of American Christianity

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Well, I thought what we'd do is we could talk about that and just hear the conversation goes also talk about Charlie Kirk or John MacArthur any of the tragedies and just kind of the state of the church and what you know

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What do you think God's doing? I think naturally people ask the question God, why are you doing one after another after another?

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Our leadership is being eliminated either by death or by disqualification and I think a lot of people find that very unsettling and destabilizing

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Especially if they don't have a great local church and they're looking for their spiritual nourishment from these guys

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There's not anyone waiting in the wings to fill those big shoes Those shoes won't be filled anytime soon as far as I can tell

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And I think after John MacArthur died, especially I know Danny was saying this and I thought the same thing I said, well now it's voting kind of almost like the torch is passed to voting he's got to say the hard cultural things and the art biblical things people don't want to hear and he'll do it and It's a year

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I don't I don't know how old he was 50 56.

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Oh, that's what you're hearing in there. That's so devastating. My wife's mother died two years ago She's 56 and it's just that's so devastating at that age.

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He has kids I so I'll just start I guess and then leave it open. I talked to him Like I said earlier this is being reported now

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I talked to him in the summer and I asked him how he was feeling. He's feeling really good And that he was that was in the rear view mirror all the problems of his heart

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He had two sons and he was gonna bring up here One of them was going to the military like this month. I can't imagine what that's going like for him

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But you know, he was taking this new job founder seminary, which is why he didn't end up coming up he was just too busy with all the new things that they were giving him and It was supposed to be kind of like the new

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The new seminary the new place you could go for theologically conservative orthodox solid education

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And it's been around for a few years But this I think everyone knew in this room even like with vote

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He's kind of stature. This is something they wanted to do for a while. I knew that from like 2019 I knew they wanted that and He and he contacted me last year and he had told me there was a few jobs

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One of them was the president of Grove City College So and I was hoping for that in a way because I'm like, oh you'd be so close for our men's retreat if you were at Grove City, it's just like a four -hour drive or whatever, but He I I never talked to him deeply about this

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But he chose founders over all the other things and I happen to know he was offered jobs at the blaze

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He would he could have gotten a job in politics or ministry or education in So many different places at prestigious levels and he wanted to go to this little small seminary in Southwest, Florida That didn't really have a reputation yet Didn't have hardly any students.

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I think they may have 12 enrolled this year something like that It's ground floor stuff and I think that's interesting that that's where he chose to go because I think for him training pastors was more important than all those other things and I'll just say one other thing about him

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Votie Bachum in my limited interactions with them. I mean he would have called me a friend, but we didn't know each other that well it was mostly

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Him calling me and asking me super random questions about you know, Al Moller or what?

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You know, I'm like, why are you asking me your Votie Bachum? He'll call me up and he'd be like, hey

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John is Al is he still any good and I'm like look What am I supposed to do with that?

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Don't you know he's like, yeah, but you follow this stuff, you know, and he listened to my podcast

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I always thought that was weird. He you know, I start to tell him something. He's like, I know I heard it on your podcast

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I'm like, oh man, I got lost what I say on that so I was honored by that but you know, he was such a normal guy and When I first met him,

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I just remember thinking man this guy's He told me we were gonna go chop it up, that's what he said

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Because I went to Southeastern he went to Southeastern He said we got to go chop it up and I was like what does that mean?

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And I said it's meant talking. So so we chopped it up. I mean we we talked and And that was kind of the beginning of our friendship and he was always encouraging.

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He prayed for me when we were having fertility issues Which was always meant a lot to me He you know, we talked about adoption there was a few different things that I had questions

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I asked him And he gave always really good advice. And so that's kind of my relationship with him, but I'm very sad to see him go.

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I Think this is leaving a big hole. That's not going to be filled anytime soon And I don't know what to make of that.

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So I've talked enough Anyone else want to share stories thoughts? I'll just say

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I mean you mentioned him going to a small seminary But I mean look what he did at the at the peak you might say of his

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If you want be celebrity pastor preaching What does he do except he goes to Africa to go and teach in a seminary there?

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You know and it tells you about the character of the man He wasn't looking for the fame and the celebrity status and all that He was he was looking to do where he felt

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God wanted him to be and Impacting who he thought God wanted him to that You told some personal stories,

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I mean I shared with John at dinner you know one of the things that first it really impressed me Vody is

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So Vody and I've had a share a love for something outside of theology, which is

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Brazilian jiu -jitsu And he and I were just talking Brazilian jiu -jitsu at one time

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We hadn't really it was like the first or second time we met Phil Johnson walks over and says

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I want to ask you a theological questions like I'll talk to you later You know talk with Andrew and what it helped me realize is

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Vody Bacchum didn't care about the status of the person that wanted to talk to him like a

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Phil Johnson He cared about whoever he was speaking to And that told me something about his character because there's a lot of guys that's like, oh

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Phil Johnson wants me Sorry, I gotta go for the important person, right? whoever was talking to him and I Was with him enough to see him do that with people

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He focused on who he was talking with and that was the most important person he could talk to at that moment

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That told me a lot about his character To the question of where we go from here and I kind of mentioned this at dinner

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I really think that maybe Maybe what

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God's doing is trying to take us out of having the celebrity pastors Who are we all look up to rather than our own pastors?

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Maybe the issue is that we've been so focused on our tribalism and following people online and having our

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YouTube Preachers and we're not listening to our local pastor who God has put in our life to train us and to shepherd us

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We're trying to be shepherded by someone on YouTube that never works The man who is to shepherd you is the man who

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You are in his church and under his shepherdship and he's your pastor so maybe

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What might be good out of this is to have people? Seeing the you know, the importance of the local church rather than Well the platform building, you know all these guys that are trying to instead of doing ministry build a platform for themselves

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I mean some of the things you mentioned in in your message, you know, it's just these guys that are

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They're saying things and doing things because hey It gets away from tradition, but it gets it gets a platform

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So maybe it's time we get back to the local church And I know some pastors here I've got a couple comments on that one

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I would I would we talked about that a little bit at dinner to the I think there's something to that for sure

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I've certainly as a local church pastor had the issue. Well Paul Washer said this I'm like well He might have said that in a particular context

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But let me give you a little bit more of a of a personal touch to what is going on in your life, right? So there's something absolutely to that.

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There's something else also though of The recognition of the need for fathers in a society and and and we recognize this even in in the

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Scripture and the Old Testament, especially and you have the fathers you have the tradition holders the ones who make sure that the tradition is held and that and that you look to and so often in Israel you'd

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Have the prophets but you have the Kings and whichever way those guys go There's a significant impact and we were talking about how

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When in the president changes, what do you have five shifts? right, and so when you have these fathers that you look to which when when 2020 happened and Covid and then people were thinking that they were trying to make the best decisions that they could but what's

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John MacArthur gonna do? because we because John MacArthur Represented a father figure who was known for his stalwart stances on truth and on Scripture and so he was such an important figure that gave

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Courage built a spine in those local pastors So yes, local pastors are important local churches are important But fathers and and there's something to voting even be a guy who's not looking for it

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Gets it anyway because people see that he's not looking for it and because people Recognize in him a type of of character a type of voice.

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That's important So on the big scale it is a big hit because I think because of the torch passing

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I think from guys like MacArthur passing away guys like Charlie Kirk who were playing a big role in the culture and a guy like Votie Bacchum now in Such a young age and I was reflecting on I thought it was

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MacArthur and I'm starting to think again It might have been Sproul that said it MacArthur telling the story, but when James Montgomery Boyce died, it was people declared that is the death of James Boyce is judgment upon America and I don't know.

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I'm not ready to make that proclamation, but I'm concerned that God may be This is a form of judgment upon America to take

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Votie Bacchum To glory second thing. I want to just kind of comment on I was John had leaked

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He was used by leaker and I think that Votie was fighting to be here But John leaked it

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Voting was he couldn't contain his excitement right that Votie was planning to be among us and just to be an attendee

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So at least we didn't I told my wife tonight if she was like he didn't tell me I was John told me nothing And so yeah,

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Tim's like What am I chopped liver Anyway and it was going to be a

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There was a slight, you know era of intimidation for voting to be an attendee While I'm speaking when

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I was planning to say something along the lines of I'm Practically regurgitating Votie's influence in my life

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Votie's had a huge influence on me. I taught on on Biblical manhood womanhood and then and then marriage and I'm I'm talking about I'm using his rubric

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You know, what's the man? What what must he be if he wants to marry my daughter? He's got to be a prophet priest provider and a protector.

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That's Votie Bacchum. Like it's it's just kind of it's in me What's a worldview? It's a person's view of God man sin and salvation that just came from Votie Bacchum I have a

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I have a family integrated church because in part because he gave voice to a lot of the things I was thinking To describe and understand what used to be called just church.

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Okay, so those texts and there was another there's another one Feel like it's on the tip of my tongue.

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Oh, yeah, it was in seminary I took a church planting class and you had to do various things about different church plants and they had planted

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Grace Family Baptist Church and in Texas, I forget the town Spring, Texas and I looked at there

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I pulled their bulletin off of their website and my bulletin is is modeled after their bulletin

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I mean So many different things like the fact that they prayed for a government officials by name and church family people by name

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The hymn of the month we have a hymn of the month because Votie Bacchum had hymn of the month My introduction of Votie came through the homeschool movement and his

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Involvement working with Doug Phillips, right? You remember anybody remember Doug Phillips, right?

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Yeah. Well sadly he demonstrated what was going on there, but That was that was early on.

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That's that's back when Votie still had the cool mustache and You know, we we would listen to some of the stuff in fact,

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I think what we were still listening to CDs Now it's on your phone and you got a telephone on your phones

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Everything's different. You have a telephone on your phone. Yeah, you know that a pocket computer has a phone

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But yeah, just to echo what brother said here that Family stuff and I'm still what's the one?

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How do we know the Bible is the Word of God? It's a reliable source of historical documents that and then I kind of trail off after that because it does go on But it's it's great.

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And let me just say this about Andrew talking about the local church local church. We do kind of work together.

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There there are those statesmen in church life that that we can all think of somebody in our in our own experience who

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Was it was an honorable statesman? guys like voice guys like MacArthur you know and Even going back to the 70s and you know, they're gone now

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And Bodie was one of those guys And I was telling a quick story. I Haven't processed yet I got the text from my wife while y 'all were doing your little coffee clutch over there at supper tonight

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Have you heard and she said and I said, I'm ready to cry, you know, I'm big old, man

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The only the only thing I cry at is I would have gone to the gates of Mordor or my captain my king you know

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No, this is this is real and at Founders 2021

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Sitting on the front row. It's a Sunday school time for grace Bible grace

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Baptist Church Coral Gables They're having a panel discussion. It's Tom Askew Bodie Bockham Tom Nettles.

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We just Right free form, right? Well Bodie's talking about how critical race theory is like What the old

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Greek democracy and he says, you know, it's like the tyrant and he starts going like this But he can't think of the reference

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Does anyone know the reference if I'm going like this? I Said screw tape letters

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I knew exactly what he meant because it's it's such a It's such a lively trope of Cutting the heads off of everything in front of you.

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So it all looks even when you're done I just loved his insight and his ability to read all things and I think one of the things that I'm not a prophet or son of prophet.

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None of us are But but but number one, yes We're in a real transition time in our country.

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I'm I'm a Whitefield on America but I'm Less Confident about the church right now

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Every Lord's Day almost every Lord's Day when I'm doing pastoral prayer or the call to worship. I Said God grant reformation to your church so that you can grant revival in the land because if we have revival and our churches stay weak and ineffectual and impotent and effeminate and cowardly and third way

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We won't know to do it or revive and we'd be like, oh, let's reproduce more of this It seems to work.

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No, no God do it My next -door neighbor is a Church of God Anderson pastor

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And he's got just just from us and a bunch of pastors gone from full egalitarian

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Patriarchal he's taking his church out of their denomination threats the whole bag So I'm like, okay if and it was just me and another guy talking and praying and sharing and here's the hermeneutic but he's sharp young man and And when that happens,

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I'm like, okay, they're their worship doesn't look like ours they're still doing a lot of the modern music

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Three notes in my wife and I are like that's Christian radio But But I'm something as critical as that that gives me hope for the church.

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God does what he does you know, we pray we do the work we pray and And if any if anything man that there's big wall left by Bodie's death and And this it's gonna be tough because you know, my goodness

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He's one of the more articulate guys out there and didn't care what anyone thought

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We need more people like that. You cannot fear fear man. You just got to worry about being faithful to God I don't care about that stuff.

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And then God says what you're faithful and small things give you more So I can stand on that one, okay,

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I'm not trying that Bodie I really don't know much about him Yeah, well, then you're probably more from my sons than you know me

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I was looking forward to meeting him if he came and I know he's not coming like, okay Yeah, I want to just kind of hang out with them this ball stuff.

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You guys have said over the years Faithfulness and small things If you look at the back the lies of any of these guys talking about that's where they began

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Yeah, they were just simply faithful MacArthur was never looking to build a platform.

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Sure He was never looking to build a radio ministry to take mystery any of it this was

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I'm going to serve my church and we preach the word and It began with the recording fit and maybe

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I'm all right. I remember cassette tapes Remember 8 -track Electra 225 with an 8 -track.

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Oh, yeah, so we had to take Shaq And it began there and this is well

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Maybe we could this in the radio John didn't do any of that other people came and did it even simply faithful Yeah to what he was called to do which was pastor

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I I'm in the transition from Talbot to Master's Seminary when I started, you know

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And there was a lot that went into that decision But most of it came to is his commitment to wanting to see trained men able to go and pastor

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Be able to dig into the Word of God and be true to the Word of God He was never looking for people to look to him

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He didn't like that. He didn't like people saying MacArthur says he wanted you to go back to the scriptures the scriptures say

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And that was how I've always tried to do all my ministries. Well, what does this Word of God say?

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Instead of looking to other people And part of the reason I think this hits harder is we're in a culture

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That looks to certain people that they're gonna leave us and maybe it's just because I am a little older.

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I Can't remember a time. We didn't have somebody very important die And whether they're young or old or anything else and We've always been in a transition and at some point.

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Well, I'm gonna die too for the reason of putting stuff into my boys Now my young men

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Very proud of them was for that very thing is they're gonna carry it the next generation.

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So I got to tell this story Because I think it illustrates what we should be doing

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Not just as fathers But in any ministry we have whether it is pastoral ministry whether it's leading music whether you're teaching kids whatever you are doing is

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You're raising up that next generation and that's completely in God's hands of who's going to be next

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So the boy again, John wasn't looking for it. God just kept doing it and it just became bigger and bigger and bigger and You know

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Bodie definitely wasn't looking for it from say it like it's like yeah, okay, I'll go do this instead We're always looking to disciple people and that's what

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God has called us to do so when Jonathan was 12 or so we used to arm us

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Because it was the first time you know, you you play with your kids and he's He's got some strength

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There's resistance here now, so I'd be played around and I put him down and then look that means to dad

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I'm gonna beat you someday And I came around the table and I said, you know what

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I'm gonna say when you do that, you know, what what dad said That's my son

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Take credit for it And that's my son Because if we're doing what we are supposed to be doing, so the question was what do we do from here?

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We do what we're supposed to be doing. We just dig in with disciple people for our lives into them and then we get to watch to see what

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God is going to do with them and Whether it's a very close personal relationship like I have with my sons and I am very proud all three of them

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The youngest one, I guess he just needed bigger engines and I was a train mechanic, you know, we need a bigger diesel engine

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But if I look at the people that we've been able to pour into so people I poured into a church

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Then poured into other people poured into other people. So some of the culinary Institute kids you can recognize them

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They're working on staff. They'd like the CIA they had their shirt on so parish was here. Nick was here

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These are people that were discipled in our church while they're attending seminary and They're up here and they're having another impact in an up in another area a different area

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But that's what we want to see We want to see them keep going and wherever God has put them.

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They start having an impact on those people So who do we need another

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MacArthur another Bodie? Well, I hope we raise up somebody because there's a lot of people just can't seem to make a decision themselves

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You need something tell them what to do. I don't mind doing it. I mean, it's I'll tell people

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You know But we're gonna continue to do that and we're gonna watch to see who God raises and then they'd be already present they just don't have that platform that people are looking for but they didn't fable this been doing what they're supposed to be doing and God will raise them up.

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He always has You know and you look back over life and you see people who are so important and and they passed away

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And you know, are they switched to a different ministry might do something else and there's a lot of ramifications for that okay,

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God raises somebody else up and That's what we want to do. We're gonna be faithful.

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We're gonna continue on and And raise more one thing that I'm very hurt the whole chart occurred assassination is how many people said then

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I'm gonna go do what? He was doing Do you know what that sounds like? How many mission stories have you heard over the years?

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The missionary got killed. He became a martyr in the field and other people went to replace him and multiplied it

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That's what we do That's that's exactly what I was gonna ask was the question of you know, what?

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Do we think that? With what we saw with Charlie Kirk everyone saying I'm Charlie Kirk as Christians.

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We say I'm of Christ not I'm Charlie Kirk, but but we saw so many people do that With all these leaders

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John that we're talking about Could it be that God is looking for us to step up where we've kind of rested in the strength of a

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MacArthur to take on the fight and Lead it and we can sit back and is it a time for us to step up?

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There's always a time to step up. I Think I'm gonna I'm joking about I'll tell people what to do.

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I think actually If you if you set out with that goal, that's probably a good indication. You shouldn't be the person in that position

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That's right, right if you because that's our natural instinct as men I think is to want to control to one and there's a healthy

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Dominion aspect to this where we fulfill Responsibilities for the love of people but there's an unhealthy

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James three calls it selfish ambition where you go out there to Make much of yourself.

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So everyone glorifies you and builds your platform instead of God's platform right, so I think a person of the old grouch of marks.

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I refuse it to join a club that would consider having me as a member It's the corollary of that.

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It's like no. Yeah, just just like that exactly Forward so so very you're too young to be having these effect

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Things So no, I'm thinking about though Well, the last conference

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I was on I was talking about virtue and its counterfeits I had so many people text me after that and say that was like I was one big a really helpful talk and you know

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I've been thinking about this and writing about it and I think that I've just scratched the surface of what virtue is

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That's the funny thing about it Like I'm gonna do a talk on virtue and you're like man, I could pretend talk 20 talks like because it's such an extensive topic and it is the need of the day.

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We don't have leaders With virtue anymore. That's the thing that really stands out to me.

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That's honestly that is the lesson from 2020 It's not that woke ideology was wrong

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It is the problem is we had weak people in positions and guess what look at them now

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Look, did you I don't if you notice the ERLC is now cutting ties with the evangelical immigration team and the gospel coalition

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Jared Taylor is praising Charlie Kirk and I mean he used to you know, say you shouldn't listen to Charlie Kirk essentially and it's

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There's there's a shift going on in the world And so the opportunities to show a shift with it and they're looking to maintain their position and it's it

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There's nothing convictional principle or virtuous about any of it it's literally just trying to retain

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I think a spot on the top of the hill and And you can get there you can get to the top of the hill through networking through manipulative techniques through there's all there are ways you can gain that but I'll tell you what

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I don't think you could put your head at night down at the pillow at night and I know I couldn't and feel good about any of it and Convince myself on reaching all these people.

28:06

Yeah, but but who what are you reaching them for? Why are for yourself for your own?

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If there's someone who can do it better than me, I want them to do it. I don't want to do it, right? That's it's kind of the attitude.

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I think we should all have to some extent. Yeah, we need to step up So that's going back to your question. We need to step up, but I think it's with an attitude of submission to Lord wherever you have for me is where I want to be if that's carrying the luggage for the guy who's gonna be the big

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Name, I want to carry the luggage. I want to it's it's all about God. I mean or Watching a guy and watching the decisions.

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He makes watching what happens at news cycles. You can kind of start to tell Where the motives are where them is it with building their own platform or building a platform for the

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Lord? So we we're in that's in demand right now virtuous leaders

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If you haven't listened to that, you know, I expand a lot more on this virtue and substance

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But I have a question. I want to throw out there. So Unless you want to keep going on this vein, but I think this is a big question in people's minds

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Where is God what's he doing? And the reason I say that isn't just because of Vodie Bachman. It's Charlie Kirk.

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It's John MacArthur. It's Who is the opposite option James Dobson It's the disqualification of Steve Lawson and Josh Bice and sort of the g3 imploding.

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It's I mean even smaller Platforms like Kato, you know, that'd be some of you know who that is.

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Maybe you might not I mean He was kind of an anti -woke voice for a while and he runs off and it sounds like he had an affair or something

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But he's he's out of the ministry Whatever ministry he had I guess it was online.

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Yeah, it was a YouTube sort of apologetics thing But it's like you see all this and it's in a ship such a short period of time and you wonder okay,

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Lord What are you doing with this like that? This doesn't seem like a coincidence I think people are thinking that everywhere especially at Charlie Kirk and Vodie Bachman that quick That's that is a double whammy to some people because they're

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I'm telling you a lot of the guys in our circles Charlie Kirk was their main political influence and Vodie Bachman was their main spiritual influence other than maybe

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Arthur which wasn't that and MacArthur to something? Yeah So so I got to throw this out there what in the world is

30:23

God doing like wouldn't he leave us a Vodie Bachman if He's gonna take John MacArthur So I have some concern

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I'm not a concern bro, but I am okay The thing that concerns me is

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What people have pointed out it's nothing original with me, but I do think it does point to a significant element and Things go

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Trajectory in the future for our country and for the state of this revival. That's supposedly happening relative to Charlie Kirk's best

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And that is there's you have to have it from all fronts If the if the government does not wield the sword against evil this thing goes away

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Because it will go away this this thing withers on the vine We don't have

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That the you actually have to have I think Spiritual voices and you're gonna have to have the political will to actually confront you

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So you have to have the voices that are that are confronting evil and then in order to to progress

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Otherwise, there's I think my concern. I'm not a prophet or son of a prophet either. I am a believer

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But the But the Concern I have is that this this thing this thing withers because I think there is a problem with will and the virtue to actually do one's job in one sphere and if the if the government does not wield the sword against evil,

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I think there's I think there's a Bigger view of judgment of God's judgment upon the nation then because then evil

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I think is going to retaliate In a way that weak weak churches weak people

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Some of my talk is gonna even be relative. I'm gonna bring in tradition a little bit more Why is the Evangelical Church not riding the wave of?

32:32

young men Red pilling and opening their eyes. Why are they going to Eastern Orthodoxy Roman Catholicism?

32:40

It's because the Evangelical Church ain't ready for them They're not we're not ready for because we're because we're we're kind of gay right and it's not good

32:47

We're effeminate and we don't have what we we're not who we ought to be And so we're not we're not seeing and so that's a part of my concern.

32:57

We're not ready We're not ready And so then if we don't I think if we that's that's where I'm at if we don't see the political vibe shift actually transferred into into the will to to deal with Eve I think we have a

33:15

Reverse effect and the excitement the energy withers. That's my opinion

33:22

Also happen at the same time Hearing about his passing is that they invent call me

33:31

So maybe that's maybe it's a story they are They died at the home means it's just been indicted.

33:38

Oh just our girl at the same time that we heard about It's kind of surreal to see the political victories cups

33:46

Trump's in office, but then at the same time Experience it's a huge thing.

33:52

Oh, I know I'm not saying yeah, it's a small thing. It's just it's like you want to rejoice That's wrong.

33:57

Is it actually like a Republican that has backbone in this like So many

34:03

I think I agree with what Danny was saying so many evangelicals that I had leaders I should say not even gel but the leaders that I tracked

34:10

We're just doing everything they could to disassociate with Trump to make it harder for Trump to signal to their audience

34:17

It's okay If you don't vote for Trump like going out of their way Yeah and it's like that but that was where the energy to do something about evil was

34:24

And like people voted for Trump primarily I think they wanted him to punish evil even if he's got his own personal issues and that's what they wanted him to do because they saw a bigger problem with and they

34:35

Because of what happened with them, he would yeah, well, yeah, especially after the assassination. Yes Let me ask

34:42

John and this is more things. We've talked privately but to know what Dan is saying You know, it's about the fact that the evangelical church just isn't ready

34:53

We've talked about the fact that you know, yeah, but there's other people who have been talking about Masculinity and they've kind of taken it different.

35:01

Yeah, so so do you see concern with the fact that okay? Is he saying the evangelical church isn't ready?

35:08

But some of reformed circles that may be going the way we we wouldn't agree with they already in and is that a concern?

35:16

Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll be a concern bro here, too, right? I'm not a concern bro.

35:22

I'm probably right. I'm just guys Scott. Is this another way science? We need these young guys to explain words to us.

35:28

Yeah You're concerned bro, so that's a good explaining the definition of that actually is a good route into this

35:34

I wrote an article called red pills without roots for American reformer to try to explain this phenomenon the because the

35:43

Legitimately righteous instincts were stamped out so often There became kind of a bunker mentality against it and an imperviousness

35:52

So anyone who critiques anything on the right should be dismissed automatically

35:58

So anytime you hear someone say it's sexist. It's racist. It's fascist. You know, the list just goes on and on Dismiss it automatically.

36:06

It has a reflex and probably nine times out of ten. That's actually been a safe reflex because Oftentimes these are just empty

36:14

Words that the left throws at something that they don't like hoping that it'll stand it out

36:19

But what's happened is there there definitely is a group of young men, especially Who have have taken?

36:27

Have taken this to the point of any kind of gate any kind of order any kind of Concern about a direction must also be dismissed

36:36

So there's no opportunity to form order in the ranks to critique to form a positive vision Your vision is always linked to being against it

36:44

And so the left does this where the opposite the left doesn't like Nazis will be Nazis the left doesn't right

36:50

So so this is part of the problem this is where you get your Andrew Tate's and your Nick Fuentes is and your

36:58

Who was it the other day? I was I forget but there's there's a whole genre now of these sort of Transgressive would be the word

37:07

And and there's a certain appeal to it I think and I talked about this in my talk on counterfeit virtue because it's it's a counterfeit virtue.

37:14

It looks it looks very brave But oftentimes it's not bravery.

37:20

It's engagement farm It's you know, it's after 2020, especially you're saying things that aren't gonna get you in trouble now, but they would have been 2020

37:27

You're not that brave You know But you say edgy things and it gets you notice and it gets you popularity and there's a whole

37:34

Industry to tap into for saying edgy things. It's actually not as brave What's brave is when you do where Russell Ford when you're like, it's all gonna come down on me

37:41

I have no friends in the world that I'm gonna trust God. That's a truly brave, right? It's not brave when you're like, there's a whole group here waiting for me to come and I'm gonna make money off them so so to wrap up what

37:52

I'm saying, I Think that you're there are forces waiting to capitalize on the fact that we're leaderless in The church essentially there are forces and there are also forces in the church that see those forces in the

38:08

Alt -right or what? That's not even that's an older term now the edgy, right the sort of I don't even know what term to use transgressive, right?

38:17

They and I think they see an opportunity to kind of attach their platforms to those platforms

38:24

So in a way that they could capitalize on what those guys are doing because they're getting a lot of views

38:29

Nick Nick Fuentes It's a lot of views I don't even like saying his name because but like what if he's got more views than me? What about I'm not, you know helping or hindering him really by saying it's me, you know, but you know

38:38

Andrew Tate has a huge following so They do it by being rebels that cast themselves as rebels and I think as Christians what we have to do is

38:46

We can't fall into the ideological trap of just the opposite of the left's ideology is now we're going to Have our own ideology, which is sort of a mirror image

38:58

We're gonna say sexist things because we're not allowed to right We're gonna be what they say we are we're going to be we can't do that If we do that, we will lose ourselves.

39:07

We will become just like them in a sense Yeah, and and we so we have to have a craft a very positive vision that doesn't care what the left says

39:14

That's really the main thing. You don't care what they said. I'm not defining myself by them. I don't care But I'm just gonna do what the Bible says, but that's right.

39:21

And then I'm just gonna Let the chips fall where they may that's what Bodhi Bachman did. He could talk to young men

39:26

He didn't have to go be super like red -pilled in the sense of like I mean he was red red

39:32

I mean, that's another term in development But now now red pill like it's you know, it means that you think that the

39:37

Jews or Israel took out Charlie Kirk I mean that's you know, it's getting to points where you're like, this is ideology.

39:42

This isn't evidence. This is Very true. You're looking at the situation and opposing heroes and villains based on a pre ideological vision not evidence

39:52

That's in front of you So I talk about what? What Danny said?

39:57

Yeah, sure. Go ahead because because I I agree with you million percent We're not ready and we should think about this in terms of what are we trying to reproduce?

40:07

What kind of a Christian is leaving our doors every Lord's Day, right? So you get these these guys that are kind of full of beans

40:15

Got some ideas swirled around their head. Some of them might be weird some need to be nurtured.

40:20

So pastors I'm telling you most pastors are terrified of offending the sensibilities of the other

40:30

Women in the church the elder wives they are hamstrung. It's it's like I don't want

40:37

I'll say some guy thing. It'll be misread You know and and it's like listen just for case in point you got a guy in our church he is a part of a state gun rights organization

40:55

He says true things We had another guy at our church visiting with his wife or considering whether they're gonna make the church or they're gone, right?

41:04

He was offended by something that this guy said he brought to my attention So I went looked at and I'm like, this is all true and he's not using any

41:12

There's there's no violation of the ten words here. I'm looking at sin is always in reference to God's law right,

41:19

I don't think this is inappropriate at all and He wanted he was putting the pressure on me to Admonish this other guy who had said true things that the other guy thought was well

41:31

I don't like that. That just sounds sounds harsh. I know It's no big deal, but those are the kind of little

41:41

You know foxes that ruin the vineyard those little things that you compromise on and you said well just for the sake of Let's not have a conflict here.

41:49

Sometimes conflict is good. You need Division over things that are true and false and right and wrong and and harmful and blessing, you know

41:58

So I think part of the Reformation of church is we've got to understand we have to be rooted in our theology

42:06

But make sure that we're defining sin by God's standards that justice is being

42:12

Defined by God's standards ie no partiality two or three witnesses Sometimes that's not how people like it because well, what if he gets away?

42:21

Well, I'm more like what if he's condemned and he's innocent that's Western Civ right there

42:27

But these young men need to know that hey, they're not gonna get away with stupid

42:36

No, dude, where are you getting this stuff?

42:43

I'm your pastor and I'm telling you don't listen to that guy because he's not basing his arguments on the

42:49

Bible At the same time. He has to be able to know he's not gonna come under church discipline for having some

42:56

Thoughts that he thinks are transgressive. You know get slapped down a few times and betrayed a few times

43:02

That's every time a master picks up the newspaper. The dog thinks he's gonna be hit So no,

43:07

I'm serious like that. Yeah you so you end up forming sort of silent like groups that are trying to create like a

43:16

Solidarity and safe safety safety from that from that You're you did you said a boy can't be a girl in church and your pastor got jumped out of your throat and then

43:25

So there's there's a lot of this to a sort of fatherlessness in a spiritual sense Yeah, and I think that's why a lot of young men also look to voting their own pastors did not

43:35

Do what they should have done and so we're gonna try to find someone who's masculine and doesn't shy away from the truth

43:41

And we'll find a voting Bach. He does. He seems to be brave, right? And that's

43:46

I think that's what a pastor at a local level has to do You have to be like that and just the chips have to fall where they may yeah

43:51

And when someone gets too far off kilter in whatever direction, I don't care what side of the political aisle or whatever, you know

43:58

Obviously, I'm right wing conservative, but if someone's going down a trail, that's um, you know, it's not a leftward ideology

44:05

But it's another kind of ideology is the pastor still have to step Absolutely, if you're a shepherd you're there to help you're not there to just bat someone over the head because You know, they got into the wrong part of the internet and started reading weird stuff, you know

44:20

Here's the thing You should let me just say this you should be able to have a discussion with your pastor about whether Adolf Hitler was a good

44:27

Guy or not. That sounds really weird to some of you Maybe but a lot of young men are think that they're gravitating towards this

44:34

Where do you who do you want them talking to you about that? Yeah, man I think their pastor should be able to not get you like how you know and just Shut them down so quickly, but actually let's have a real conversation about this.

44:47

Why do you think that let's unpack that and Let's get let's find some real answers And even if you don't have all the answers you can spend time you could do a little research

44:55

I can even help a little if you want books and stuff because I've had I've argued some guys I've had guys reach out to me say

45:00

John. I Don't know what happened to me. I used to evangelize Jews and now I hate him I've been in chat groups where this is reinforced and it's like I can't believe the person

45:09

I became helped me and And then what you know, what the wrong response is like condemning the person right there.

45:17

No Yeah, I'll try to help you what do you need help with let me okay Here's a book you can read that this will help argue you out of whatever

45:24

But it's great patience, even if you don't know history, you know, dehumanizing people is wrong and murdering them, right?

45:30

We can you know, so so so anyway I just think pastors need to not you shouldn't be surprised by anything that comes across your desk and you know, just Deal deal with that deal with the world right in front of you

45:43

And don't be passive Emily don't wait for them to come to you if you notice something to him ask them questions

45:50

Yeah, we had a kid. Why not shake and wear a shirt? Oh, yeah It's yeah, like what shirt chicken hair.

45:57

I thought I like the hip and cool Connie the hip. Yeah He was I mean, so I found

46:04

I think why are you wearing that shirt? You know, do you know who he is? And so he goes off on the liberal spiel of how wonderful he was

46:12

You don't realize this guy actually was is responsible for the Martyrdom of a whole lot of brothers and sisters in Christ, you know anything about that part

46:21

I said, but since this is your interest why don't you start actually reading missionary biographies of people who actually did what you think this guy did what she did and He did

46:33

Well, he ended up in China for several years as a missionary because it finally got to him

46:39

What he saw as something that he wanted as a young man Became something more of well, here's for the real examples.

46:47

They don't know they're ignorant of history Yeah, they're they're ignorant of even what's going on around them

46:53

They don't know the scriptures and part of the reason they don't know it is so many pastors won't teach it

47:00

They don't want to offend the people if I send the people what if I lose people then, you know

47:05

What about my family how much work what do we trust God or not? Right? Amen Do I actually trust that God will provide for me?

47:12

Do I actually believe if I seek first his kingdom and his righteousness that he'll provide what

47:17

I need for my family's if I don't believe that Then what in the world am I doing in a pulpit seat?

47:23

I shouldn't be there Okay, but that's true for anybody if you can't believe that Well, what do you believe about God you believe in saving your soul, but he can't provide for you

47:35

Which is more? He can provide for us now it might be beans and rice, but you know, he sees it right that's good

47:48

You can you can get by our goal here is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ with our lives to be men

47:55

Real men who stand up. Here's the truth spoken with love

48:01

Voting he could say what he says MacArthur all these guys you've mentioned and yet there was a tenderness and a humility within them

48:08

That's what we need to emulate in every level of church life. It's not just for the pastors.

48:14

It's for everybody Don't wait for the pastor to go talk to this guy in the shape for marriage. Sure. Don't talk to yourself say

48:20

Why are you wearing that? Let him speak you might find out he actually would like to do something great and he thinks this guy did something great

48:30

Well point him to people who did something. Maybe it's his grandpa So we it's about nine right now, so I don't want to keep

48:44

I mean I know it's been raining and so that you know, this is a fine place to be. I think there was someone My hand up.

48:50

I thought yeah, I did. I wanted to make a point about Leader feeling leaderless right now, and I think that We're this is the danger of Protestantism We don't have a

49:04

Pope right and I'm not saying I'm not questioning Protestants and the point that I want to make is that Christ is the king

49:10

Christ is our leader We have a leader and he's raised up congregations to go forth into the world to play with gospel and In moments like this where we are feeling quite shaken it's important for us to Like look to the one who would replace the religious center of leaders in Jerusalem with 12 apostles and Would tell them you were you could throw this this mountain into the sea and if that would happen

49:42

Would come crumbling down and he would replace and raise up a whole new generation of leaders with those apostles

49:50

Wow So yeah Christ hasn't left. So yeah, we saw the leader.

49:55

It's cool. Well, I'm still confident that ad is If he doesn't show up for the sessions,

50:02

I don't know About ad being the

50:11

Pope for the Protestants I Thought there was a party. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's so long.

50:18

So it's an internet. He went to see the black. So Great. Well, let's uh, let's pray and then

50:25

I'll let you get to your cabin or wherever you want to do Lord We thank you for this time. We thank you that you are the king and you are still on your throne

50:31

By the way, pray once again for the Balkans. We just pray for comfort pray for founder seminary

50:37

Lord I'm sure there's just such shock and such anguish. I Just can't imagine what's going on With his his children, especially as it's great for specifically for his one son

50:50

He's going to the military very soon that you would give him the strength to be able to make it through Lord I I just pray you'd raise up men raise up men that are totally sold out to Christ and nothing else and Lord, we thank you that you have raised up some of them.