Divine Appointments — Otto Koning

You've all heard the story of Jesus talking to the Samaritan woman, and it's said there in John 4 .4, He must needs go through Samaria. Now, the Jews didn't have a dealing with Samaritans, and they wouldn't go through there, they'd cross Jordan and go up that way, but Jesus said, I must needs go through there.

Jesus’ Divine Appointment in Samaria

Not because there wasn't another way, but because there was a divine appointment that He had to make. And you remember how the Samaritans believed the people there, and how they turned to the Lord, and how that whole area was evangelized.

Amazing, in the book of Acts, chapter 8, we have Philip the Evangelist, and this was maybe about three years later, in the very same area at Sychar, having this great revival there, remember that? And that was when the Holy Spirit told him to go to the desert, to the road that leads to Gaza, and remember, and all of a sudden there, he meets this Ethiopian eunuch, and you remember the divine appointment there again, just like Jesus had to go through Samaria to reach that woman, it's not referring to another way, so Philip had to go to a desert.

Can you imagine a successful evangelistic meetings, many turning to the Lord, and He says, go to the desert, and there he meets that one Ethiopian eunuch, and who became a believer, and was baptized, and then went on to Ethiopia with the gospel.

Chronos and Kairos: Ordinary Time and Divine Moments

Divine appointments. There are two words in the Bible for time. One is chronos, and that's the everyday word for time. It's like in the story of Herod, when he asked the wise men, what time did the star appear?

And that's the same thing as our daily, everyday time, hours and minutes that we're concerned about. It's the chronos, Greek word, we get the word chronological, chronomatic on your watch, and so on. Chronos time.

But by far the more important word in the New Testament is kairos, and those are the appointments, the divine appointments. When the book of Esther was translated into Greek, that word time there was translated kairos.

That's when Mordecai, her uncle, said, for a time, for this time, for a time as this, you've been brought into the kingdom, in order that she might save all the Jews in the empire there. And for that specific moment, that divine moment, the fullness of time.

In Galatians, it says, when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth His Son. That specific moment in history, not too early, not too late, when God sent His Son to earth here to redeem us. And then it's used again in the parable of the harvest, you know, the time of the harvest.

Now you can't harvest too soon, the grain isn't ripe. You can't wait too long or it spoils. The specific time of harvest is a certain moment. And so that's the word kairos. Now let me illustrate this.

A Missionary’s Lost Appointments

A missionary was walking to the city, to the marketplace, every Saturday morning to get his supplies. He would take all day walking to the city or to the town and back to his mission station, the whole day of the week to get supplies.

But as he walked, the nationals walked with him. The natives loaded down with produce from their gardens to sell at the marketplace. And as they walked together each Saturday, what was he doing? He was teaching them.

He was just like Jesus did when he walked along the roads, right? As they were traveling, most of the teaching Jesus did was in travel. So he never wasted time traveling, walking on foot. And so this missionary would teach his people as they walked along the dusty road every Saturday, probably getting more done than on Sunday.

But then the church in America, and the church in America may be all too rich a church, right? They bought him a jeep. And now he could save time. Now what kind of time was he saving? You see, he cruises on by, leaves them in a cloud of dust.

All the people that used to walk with him are angry at him because he didn't give them a ride. Well, he couldn't give them all a ride. They'd sit on his doorstep the night before, all night, so that they could get to ride on the jeep with their produce and beat the other guys to it.

They were jealous of each other. They were fighting amongst each other who got the ride. They were mad at the missionary. He had the jeep so when he'd have to stop, they'd all pile on. He gets in trouble with the authorities for overloading too many people in his jeep.

And everybody's angry at him. But he's saving time, right? But he's losing appointments, right? Losing that divine appointment when he could be teaching these people. And he's turning the people off because of his jeep.

When Ministry Tools Become Distractions

And I did the same thing. Oh, I'm ashamed not to say. We had this while we built airstrips in the jungle of New Guinea. And the men wanted to work and earn some things. And so when the strips were done, then we started making paths through the swamp, piling up the mud, and so on.

So when we got some paths through the next village and a couple more places, or at least partway in other directions, what did I do? Hey, I could really save time with a small motorcycle, a little trail bike.

I had a little Honda, a 90cc trail bike. And now I could ride those paths and save time, you know. And I'd get to the other paths, to the end of the path, and then I'd have to park it there and walk and go to the villages to the evangelist.

But it was nice to come back and you know that at a certain point, then you can ride home, you don't have to walk the rest of the way. But that motorcycle became like the missionary's jeep. The people all wanted rides.

Oh, I'd turn them off. They'd never invented the wheel yet. And so they all wanted rides, and the kids would hang on to the back and run. I couldn't go all that fast on those trails. And they'd hang off and throw me off balance, and I'd shout at them, get out of here and leave me alone.

And they'd hang on, and all of them running behind me all the time. And then they tried to get that thing started. They wanted to know what made it tick. Well, I thought, oh, man. And so I disguised this key, you know, that had it started.

And so they'd see me get on the bike, and they're trying to see what I do. So I'd touch the knob on the front wheel and pat the gas tank and hit the light in the back thing and hit the clutch lever and the lever.

And I'd say, hey, look at that bird, and I'd turn the key. And I'd do it. Now, they caught on after a while that, you know, when he says look at a bird or look at something, watch his hands. So from now on, some of them, and so they'd find out that it was that key.

They'd say, let me see that thing. They'd study that key. I had to watch that thing. And you know what they did? They carved wooden keys just like it. They took a mental picture of it, and they put that in there, broke it off.

And I'm saving all kinds of time. You better believe it. I'm sitting there with a hot needle in a fire, heating that needle to burn that out of that thing. Can you believe it? Frustrated, these dumb guys, you know, wooden keys.

One time I had left a key in it. Oh, I don't know, just forgot it. And they found that motorcycle there in the jungle on that path, way in the middle of the jungle with the key in it. And they got that thing turned, and they found out the light came on.

Whoa, they're always looking for flashlights. They go hunting, you know. They need the flashlights at night. And you know what they did? They tied that motorcycle on a long post. They had guys in front and back and carried it through the swamps with this big flashlight burning all day.

Can you imagine it? Of course, after long enough, that thing runs out of light, and I'm stuck with a dead battery. You know that thing won't start with a dead battery, so I'm saving time when I got back.

But I'm glad they brought it back to the path. Suppose they'd left it in the middle of the swamp after the flashlight went off. You know what I mean? What would I have done? But I got back, and this thing was not starting.

And I thought, oh, brother. And I'm frustrated, and there's some guys with me. I said, look, you push this thing home, okay, and I'll pay you when you get there. And I said, now, don't touch anything.

Don't mess with it, you know. When they got home hours later, it took them forever. I thought, what is happening? They had the thing in gear, folks. And the thing, the back wheel wouldn't turn. He says, too, and that back leg won't walk.

Oh, and the flat, there's a flat spot on my tire. They dragged it all the way home. Oh, brother, now, how am I going to get a battery charged back in the jungle? How am I going to get a tire? I can't even change the, oh, saving time.

You better believe it. You know, we get ourselves in trouble with some of the things we have. And, oh, they did all, they loved the sound of hearing the air come out of the tire. Oh, brother, it reminded them of the hissing of a snake or something.

I don't know, and I'm sitting there with flat tires. And, oh, I said, tie it on the beam, carry it home. You know, they're creating jobs. They get paid, you know what I mean? They did the same thing with my boat.

Gadgets, Ownership, and Missed Ministry

I had this little boat, and they'd go to some war or some whatever activities and paddle all their canoes, and the last ones, no more canoes left. You see, they bore each other's canoes. And so, the last one paddles my boat out somewhere.

Now, when they come back from the feast, they don't paddle my boat back. They come in the canoes. It's too hard to battle that old boat. And so, I come to the river to go to an evangelistic trip somewhere.

No boat. Where is my boat, you guys? Well, I saw it way over on the other river. I'll go and get it for you. Pay me. Hey, I'm fighting. I'm going to lock. We drove up post deep into the bank there, and I had this piece of chain.

I don't know where I got it. I had a piece of chain. I had a lock, man. And I locked that boat. But again, the broken keys in that lock. And I'd have to send home to my wife. Send the hacks on. I'm cutting my own locks off my own boat.

And, oh, saving time. You better believe it. And I got a combination lock. I thought, this makes them, you know, no key, no keyhole. Man. But, you know, those people have so much time. They take turns, you know, take turns sleeping.

And they'll sit there. You know what? Eventually, finally, it was the tiniest click which some guy discovered. And he turns the other way because he told me I'd be turning that thing every which way, you know, trying to get them all confused.

And they'd get it open every time. Oh, man. So I got me a bolt, a couple of washers and a big heavy bolt and a nut. And I carried two wrenches, a crescent wrench and another wrench to the river. And I tightened that thing down so tight I could hardly get it open myself.

And you know what I saw? Broken wooden wrenches. I mean, just like my wife. They never got it open. But I could hardly get it open. I'm supposed to be saving time with this thing. Oh, we get all kinds of gadgets.

You get gadgets. You have stuff that's not good for you neither. You know, because I have too much to fix, right? I'm trying to get the motorcycle going when I should be having divine appointments. You know what I mean?

Like, you see what's happening? And I take too much time just living. So I had this Kohler generator. Oh, now I can have electric lights. Isn't that nice? At least three hours a night while the generator's going.

And I go to another village. My wife has to turn off the thing when it's dark. The thing is back there by the chicken pen. That's where the snakes are. They're always attracted by the chicken pen. So there's where the Kohler generator is near there.

And she hates to go out there and turn that thing off at 9 o 'clock at night. Sometimes she pumps those old lamps just so she wouldn't have. She says, and finally I rigged up. I mean, this took some doing.

I rigged up a fish line all the way from the house to the shed back there. And rigged it up on that machine where she could. If she pulled that fish line with a big handle on it all the way across the room, it'd take up all the slack.

She could cut it off. Oh, was she delighted. She was thrilled. But what we soon found out, that fish line didn't last long. Soon as I was out of village, that fish line'd be stolen, and she'd be out there without a fish line.

Hey, all these gadgets, you know, you're saving time and trouble. Oh, and you get angry at the people for stealing your stuff. And I'm going through this all the time. We had the drums at the river, the gasoline for the motors, and the kerosene for our lamps in our stove.

And we had a kerosene refrigerator. So these drums at the river, we can't bring them through the swamp in, so we have to carry it through in jerry cans. But they stole the lead. You know those 55-gallon drums have those lead tops on them?

And you know, you get your pliers in there and big screwdriver, and you wedge that thing out. Well, they could do that too. They could get a couple of sticks, put a lever in there, and just twist that thing off.

They'd use that lead. They'd use it as sinkers for the fish line. Can you imagine them getting that hot enough? They'd usually make that lead into sinkers. And so my drums are sitting out there without leads on them.

Now everybody's helping themselves. They watch us get it out. So they got these nice little lamps. They'd never had lamps. They'd get my peanut butter jars or tin cans and put a piece of cloth in there, and they'd get this little kerosene lamp in their house.

Oh, they were delighted, man. They thought they were really something. Well, we ran out of gasoline, and the MEF got us this 100-octane airplane fuel. And so there was a drum of that out there. Now they didn't know which drum was which, so they stole the wrong stuff, put it in their peanut butter jars.

And you can imagine those things would go sky high. Oh, brother, they burned their houses down. And some of the kids got burned. And they're angry with me. They said, Thuan, you put the wrong stuff in that.

Thuan, what's he got in those drums? You're causing all the trouble around here. I said, well, leave it alone. Don't touch it. And they said, oh, man, Thuan, you've got to tell us. There's minyak with big bite, and there's minyak with little bite.

And I said, yes, leave them both alone. And they said, if you don't tell us, then you're going to be the cause of our children getting burned and so on. And so finally I did tell them, if you're going to steal, steal that one there.

You know what I mean? Kerosene was cheaper, so I told them not to touch that anyway. But anyway, what a mess. One time this Kohler generator, these guys always fiddle with it and mess with it. And I tried to get them out of there, and I couldn't lock everything up.

And this one guy was notorious. He was always messing. I got tired of that. I told him to get out of that generator shack. One day I was in there. He came by, and I was in there messing with it and trying to get it going.

And I said, help me. Heimo, help me. And I said, you hold on here, and I'll try to pull to get this started. And I had him hold that spark plug, and I started that thing. Man, he got one whale. They didn't know what a shock was.

He said, oh, he got this thing. He says it bit me all the way up my arm into my neck. He says, oh, man. He says, two on my arm going to be all right. Well, he never messed with it again. I said, tell everybody.

Tell everybody the thing bites. Well, I should have told him the same thing about the motorcycle, I guess. I don't know. But, oh, brother, all these things, you know. I was in Birmingham, Alabama, and there was a man there, an old man and his wife.

Earthly Treasures and the Loss of Spiritual Joy

And I stayed in his house when I preached in that church. And he's got started with all these treasures in his house because he was an antique dealer. He had chess sets from China, marble, carved, inlaid table.

He had treasures, plates on the walls. He had collections. This house was loaded with treasure. The guy's 80 years old, and he's got bars on the windows. He's got three dogs, two German shepherds. And if I got in too late from the meeting, man, I could hardly get into this place because he had so many locks on the doors.

And he had these dogs. But I told him I'd call him. I said, I'm coming in. So, you know, hold your dogs. I didn't mean to start. But this man shared with me. And he says, Mr. Koenig, you know, I'm so concerned for all this stuff.

The treasures on earth were ruining his life. And he couldn't bring the plumber or the electrician in. He'd have men of the church come in to fix it because he didn't want any outsider to ever go into his house lest they see what's there.

So they'd come back and get it. And the missus had this Dutch plates. These were the New Year Christmas plates in Holland. They used to put them out, the beautiful Delft blue. And this was a collection worth thousands of dollars.

I think he said five to ten thousand dollars. And I read the words on it in Dutch and admired him. And after I talked to him, he said to me one time. He said, Otto, you know, it's so frustrating. I've got all this stuff.

And he's very rich. And I've got all this stuff. And I have nobody to give it to. My son is a slothful man. He's drinking. He's on drugs. He's no good. And he'll just be worse. I can't leave it all to him.

And he says, I have no other. What a problem. Nobody to give it to. And these people were nervous. And their riches ruined their lives. And they were not effective for God as a witness. Oh, if he could have only given that money to some missionaries and learned what life was all about.

And had the joy of treasure in heaven. You know what I mean? Treasure in heaven is better than treasure on earth. You believe that? Treasure on heaven is better than credit cards on earth. Well, and so that last day, God got to her through the surrendering rights message.

And she had asked me earlier, which one do you like the best? She took the nicest plate out of that collection and gave it to me with tears in her eyes. God got hold of her. And she broke up her collection, which wasn't worth as much with this one plate missing.

And I went home. The thing by itself was worth maybe about $500. I brought it home. I said, Carol, to my wife. I said, we got a $500 plate hanging on our wall. I said, you know, does that bother you? You know, five years later, I went back to the family and took it back.

But, you know, I remember the man drove me to the airport. He says, I can't believe it. Something happened to my wife. She broke up her collection. Something happened to her. I think she's over at the treasures.

And she says, I still can't believe she did it. And a couple of years later, I went back and stayed in their house. Well, I didn't stay in their house again. I stayed in another house. And I went to their house with this plate.

I said, ma 'am, all God wanted from you is to be willing to let go of it. And you did. I said, I'm bringing it back. This plate is lonely in my house. It needs to be in this collection. It's better out there.

So they got it back. Maybe someday I'll get the whole thing. I don't know. It doesn't really matter. They have nowhere else to give it. But anyway, treasures on earth. All the people. Can you see we can hang on?

And yet they're Christian people, go to church every Sunday. But they have not got the joy of giving. They're thinking Kronos, aren't they? Everyday time. And they're not thinking about eternity and the things that last.

Three Things That Last Forever

We had a speaker at headquarters came through. And he said, there's three things that last forever. Get hold of those. And then he said, God lasts forever. Get to know him. Seek him with all your heart.

Know him better than anybody else. The word of God, the Bible, will last forever. Hey, master the book. Forget about all the other reading. He says, master the book. And it's going to be there. And the souls of men last forever.

Give your life and everything you have for the soul. He says, that's the only thing that will not burn. Things that will not burn up. That is with us forever. Give yourself to it. Wise words, wasn't it?

Giving Away Possessions and Learning Contentment

And I was in Bandung, Java. Oh, that's an oriental city in the island of Java. Java has more people than in the whole. Java alone has more people than the whole country of Japan. It's unbelievable, the crowd in that island.

And in that oriental city where there was no sewage system. Can you imagine places with disease and so on? And places like that. And I'd go jogging. And we lived in a Chinese section where I rented a house.

We were there for language study. And I rented a house there and jogging in the morning. And there was these poor, poor people going through the garbage dumps. And from the houses, cans of the richer Chinese people.

And getting their food. I would see people on the street, sometimes laying in a ditch. Just very sick and fever. And what am I supposed to do? The hospitals didn't want them because unless I could pay the bills.

There's so many. What can you do? Next day you come by the same street and they're dead. Life is so cheap and it really tears you. And I see this thing. And there was this little church there. And the pastor, it was started by some mission group.

And the pastor spoke Indonesian so clear and so slow. That it was a good place for language study. So that's where we went to church. Matter of fact, I went there every day. And I used the room in his church for language study and so on to get away.

And go there every day. Now, I saw the poverty of those people. And I saw the poverty of that pastor. And it touched my heart. My nerves were so bad. I had to stop language study. And that was tragic.

I really wasted a whole year. I wasted a year of Kronos time. And because my nerves were so bad, I couldn't continue the language study. And so I was there at this hospital. It was a Filipino doctor, wonderful Christian man.

And he gave me shots of vitamin B. And I said to him, Doctor, what is the matter with me? What can I do? And he says, Mr. Koenig, I don't want to tell you the answer. I said, you must tell me the answer if you know it.

He says, you'll be angry at me. He says, you won't appreciate what I've got to tell you. I said, go ahead and tell me. And he says, it's your stinginess. You're so stingy that it's affecting your nervous system.

I said, what's stinginess? I said, yes, it's right. You're right. I am stingy. I'm Dutch. It's my father's fault. I'm just like him. I said, no. He says, no. He says, if you let go of your things, then your nerve system will clear.

You're worrying about things. You're worrying about, just give it away and let God take care of you. Wow. I went, all kinds of beggars there. And there was plenty of room to give it away. But that little church, there was a beggar man.

Can you imagine that? And I ride my bicycle. And I'd give him this large 50 rupee coin, which is worth 12 and a half cents in our money at that time. And I dropped that in his cup. We couldn't give from the house because they put a mark on your gate and everybody would be there.

The Muslim religion is that way. You have to have beggars. And that's part of getting to heaven, if you take care of beggars. So, families literally will blind a baby at birth so that they'll have a beggar, a blind person to earn the living for the family down the road.

It's amazing. And so, this blind beggar was sitting there. And I'd come with my bicycle to go to church. He knew the brake on my bicycle squealed a little bit. And he'd say, terima kasih tuan, when I put my coin, that big coin.

He could live on that. Several of the family could live on that coin. One day, they could buy their rice and stuff. And so, his relatives no doubt knew that they called me tuan. So, he knew that I was the white man that came on this bicycle.

And he would say that, terima kasih tuan. And they thanked me. And one day, I don't go by. And next day, he said, where were you? I was sick or something. He says, you didn't come yesterday. We didn't have food.

Where were you? And I said, oh, I dropped two coins. I'd always save those. They were like size of a half dollar. And I'd always save them wherever I went for this. And I literally, I went around the block.

I waited to see what was happening. Because I came back one time early. And he was gone. I thought, how long does that man sit there on the side of the road? And finally, I went around the block. And I found after I'd gone, the relatives came and got him.

I mean, they earned enough for that day and no need him sitting there. So, I was supplying that family with that coin, 12 and a half cents. And it was just unbelievable. Same with that woman there in the, that went through the garbage cans.

One morning, I just stopped. And I gave her a hundred rupee note, which is 25 cents worth, something like that. And I said, take this. And she almost wept. And this Muslim lady, just that little bit. And friends, that doctor said, Mr. Koenig, quit your conniving and quit being stingy.

And your nerves will. And that's what happened. And friends, I learned to give. And later, as we learned the spiritual gifts in the advanced seminar, years later, I found out that God had given me the spiritual gift of giving.

I didn't know that. But the opposite, the bad side of that is the stinginess, you see. Hanging on. Don't spend money on yourself. So, you hang on. And now, you don't spend money on yourself. You give it away.

It's really the same thing. But this was hard for me at first, friends, to just give. And it was even harder on my wife. Well, don't give if your wife isn't for it, okay? Don't cause trouble in the family.

You've got to be agreed on it. But anyway, I would drop off these. I'd get the best 100 kilo bag of rice, the best quality rice on the rice market. I couldn't carry it on my bicycle. So, I'd hired this little betcha.

And this little betcha is bicycle taxis in the Orient. And he'd put it in his bicycle tire. And he followed me. And we'd make our way to the church. And I'd say, Pastor, Pastor, I've brought this bag for you.

He said, Oh, Thuan, that's beautiful rice. That's the best rice. I said, Why not? I said, I want you to have it. He says, Ah, Thuan, I can never eat all that rice. He says, My people are so poor. Why don't you give it to the church?

I said, No, I don't want to give it to church. I want to give it to you. I knew this, that if I gave it to the church, that pastor wouldn't sacrifice all the rice to the poor people. I said, No, I'm giving it to you.

Well, he says, Do you mind? I said, It's yours to do with what you want, but it's your rice. And so he would feed the whole, that little church. We're eating. And every week I'd come with this bag of rice.

It was only so many dollars for us. But to them, it kept them. And these people were so poor. And I'm worshiping with them on Sunday, my wife and I. I said, Now, Pastor, don't ever tell them I bring you this rice, will you?

I want to have a good relationship with your people and worship with them. But to bet your driver, you know, was related. Well, I'd hire a different bet your driver every time to bring the rice. And somehow it got to, Hey, it's this white man.

The white man that rides the bicycle. And that was an oddball thing. You know, the white man doesn't ride bicycles in Bandung Java, right? And they said, Why do you ride a bicycle? And all the other missionaries are driving these big Toyotas, the best Toyotas that made in Japan.

And they said, They don't give us rides. The missionaries that started these churches, they don't give us a ride because they don't want to get their cars dirty. That's what they said. And they sit and worship with us, but they always come running by.

Why do they have to drive those big cars? And they're talking to me because I'm riding this bicycle. And they said, They don't ever bring us a bag of rice. And they said, You bring a bag of rice. There's a difference between you missionaries.

What is going on? And that's the questions they asked. And it hurt them. And so I said to one of these missionaries, tactfully, I said, Why do you drive these big Toyotas? Well, you know what the answer was?

He says, Well, Mr. Koenig, it's good stewardship. He says, We buy them in Japan. We buy these big ones and we can get them and we can ship them over. You know the cost of vehicles here. We can, after three, four years, week and five years, we can sell these things for more than what we paid for them.

And we're saving God's money. And so if we buy enough of them, then we can get a special price. And he says, We can sell it here, buy a brand new in Japan. We can drive free of charge, never have any costs, never have any repairs.

We're being stewards of God's money so that the church pays for this. And so we're saving. What are they saving? Kronos items. Just like the Kronos time, we're saving things of this world. But they're turning their people against them.

And who wins the hearts? The guy that rides the bicycle and brings them a bag of rice. And I said, Oh, man, you see how many times we do this. We miss Kairos situations, and we're trying to save regular time.

Discontentment, Clutter, and the Misuse of Time

Mr. Gotthard recently said that window shopping is an exercise in discontentment. Interesting statement. I guess reading catalogs and seeing all the stuff you don't have yet is an exercise in discontentment.

I don't know. But we're so geared to things, and yet we don't have time to really minister. Isn't it true that we don't have time to go to the mission or to go to the neighbors or really to talk or even come to the meetings to worship God or even to really pray or study or memorize the Word of God?

We simply don't have time because we've got all these things like I did. And I don't know if any of you know the family. They had this very small house, rent house, or he owned it, I think. He had six children, had only two bedrooms.

So the parents had one and the six children had the other. Problem was they had one girl and five boys. But they had three sets of bunk beds in that small bedroom. They prayed, God, give us a bigger house.

We need a bigger house so bad we're crowded. It was just narrow aisles between those bunk beds. And they had to change their clothes in the bathroom because there was one girl and five guys. And they all grew up together in that one room.

They prayed and prayed. God never gave them a bigger house. Finally, they quit praying. They said, God, you're telling us to be content in what we got. And then he says, later I realized a blessing. He said to his men, he said, men, don't ever get a bigger house.

Contentment, Accountability, and Protecting Children

He says, this is what happened in my house. He said, all the six kids would talk together. They would hold each other accountable. Where were you today? Who did you talk to? Where did you go? And he says, after I sent him to bed, I would always let him talk a while.

I realized that was working for me. After about an hour, I'd say, hey, get to sleep, kids. You know, it's getting late. But he says, they knew each other so well. Now they sing together. They became each other's best buddies.

But they held each other accountable. Where were you? They knew what they were thinking. They know what the other were doing. You can't talk that much to people without knowing what's in their hearts and in their minds.

And he says, you know, my children were protected from all the temptations that come along. He said, don't ever get one bedroom for each child. He says, it's so damaging. And worse yet is to put a lock on the door.

He says, sell the big houses. He says, you know what you're doing? You have to lock the door. And I stay in many houses. And you see, there's room for pictures on the walls. You know, in their house, there was only one small.

They put a Bible text there to remind them of the Lord. You know, because they couldn't see the other walls anyway for the bunk beds. But he says, oh, you can see where people are by what is in the bedroom.

What pictures, what they worship, whatever, what they have there, what music they play. Our kids never, he said, there wasn't room for a music box in that place. So he says, they never could play wrong music.