The American Churchman: Should Christians Support the Dignity Act?

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And welcome to the American Churchman podcast where we encourage churchmen to take dominion to honor

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God in their lives To obey Christ and I am joined by my co -host

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Matthew Pearson as always. Hey Matthew. How are you? I'm good. John. How are you doing? Good.

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Good. It's kind of a long day for me I've been up since actually 2 a .m

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Because I I woke up and I couldn't get back to sleep So I decided to take an early morning hike and I got to see the sunrise, which is kind of cool

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It doesn't happen much. Very nice. It's a different world. You know, you forget sometimes like really early morning

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Let's just say we don't have a shortage of rabbits. I couldn't believe how many rabbits were out there's a lot of animals obviously, but yeah,

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I'm kind of I don't know I thought at least I was a night owl, but I'm realizing because I've talked to other people who are true night owls that actually

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I'm pretty average Like I like going to bed between 10 and 12. I don't know why I got off on this tangent

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I just first thing that came to my heart man, because I'm tired, right? No. Yeah. Are you a night owl?

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What are you? Either or I get sleepy at night though.

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I sleep like an old person I like to go to bed between like you said 10 and 12 last night. I was up late though.

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So but you know That's just I like both though. I like early morning and late night

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I sort of stereotype all zoomers as night owls for some reason Because I think

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I think they're just watching reels till 1 a .m. I don't know. That's true. Yeah, I don't know why

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I think that I have no evidence. Yeah, I think I've done that before. I can't even lie to you

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I'm like, I'm just like all the rest of them You just like the rest of them all the zoomers.

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There's dysfunctional Not well adjusted socially zoomers. Yep So anyway, we do have serious thing.

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Let's talk about today. We're gonna talk about the jealousy of God and We're not gonna sing you the song

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I asked Matthew about that beforehand We don't sing that at my church, by the way that I don't even know what the title is.

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He is jealous for me Trees and bending and yeah, that's a

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That's I don't know how I even know it's how he loves by the David Crowder band

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Oh, is it David Crowder? It was like a hurricane. I am a tree bending. Sounds like he's waiting in mercy

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What he's whimpering in the song like he's like, oh and then it's like a big gap and he's like how he loves me

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And then you're you think like is he dead? What's and then he's like, oh and you're like, oh, he's still alive so Sorry, you should get less sleep more often you're funnier am

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I yeah, you're cracking me up man cosmic treason is enjoying this Oh cosmic treason called it.

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I think before you it's David Crowder. Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, that was like 10 years ago I'll have to look at the chat more

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That was like when you were born, you know 10 years ago. I was born 10 years ago. Yeah, something like that I'm 15 years old everybody

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So we're gonna talk about jealousy a little bit and The Lord is a jealous

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God I mean, this is a very serious topic and and then we're gonna talk about immigration and this new amp

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I'm calling it amnesty light, but it's this dignity act and That should be fun.

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I think we'll see what direction this goes But if you're watching the podcast and you want to weigh in there is a chat so you can comment if you're on Facebook or YouTube so please do so and We'll have a good discussion.

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But Matthew, let's take it away on the jealousy of God. Yeah, absolutely

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So this is us Continuing our little series where we open up going through a divine attribute if I don't bail out last minute on John and let him

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Know beforehand that I can't do it or something like that But I'm actually after this one after we get done with God is jealous.

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We only have two more attributes after this So we're gonna probably start a new series of things to kick off our pod.

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We'll just end the podcast. It's over Yeah, no American or American churchman is coming to an end very soon now.

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So when you're a thing Yeah, yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah, but Jokes, I think unless John's firing me.

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No. No, I didn't know I'm joking I I was I don't know what we'll do next. I had maybe people can weigh in on the comments because you know,

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I People do different things years ago. I know Doug Wilson did this like Series on his podcast

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Homarche ology it was all sin and I was like, how long could you go with that? And I'm pretty sure he's still doing it.

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I was like, you know five six years ago. He somehow found a way to Incorporate that so I mean we could we could start finding sub attributes, but that's actually dangerous.

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Let's not do that. It's not bad tributes Oh, yeah. Well, we'll figure something out. We'll figure out. Yeah, we'll do yeah. Yeah, but so for our attribute today

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It's going to be God as jealous and as I always like to do We'll be opening up with two verses one from the old and one from the

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New Testament So our first verse today will be from Exodus chapter 20 verses 4 through 5 where the scripture reads

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Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth

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Beneath or that is in the water under the earth Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them for I the

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Lord thy God am a jealous God visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me and our

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New Testament verse will be from the Epistle to the Hebrews chapter 12 verses 28 through 29 where the author

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He writes wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved Let us have grace whereby we may serve

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God Acceptably with reverence and godly fear for our God is a consuming fire something which the scriptures claim of God about God numerous times or what it predicates of God is that he is a

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Jealous God and when we speak of God as a jealous God or of jealousy as an attribute of God Remember like one of the distinctions that we have made many times on the series is that there are some attributes which are

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Relational this would be one of them. This attribute is relational So it's a manner or affection of divine affection, which is specifically

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Relates to how he sees other people his creation So it's a relational attribute and it also intersects heavily with other attributes of God and the ones

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I'll be touching on a bit The way that they intersect will be love justice and faithfulness

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But before Defining divine jealousy. We must first speak of human jealousy so that we are able to properly

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Distinguish jealousy when applied to men in Scripture most often refers to It usually speaks of this in a negative way

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Jealousy applied to men usually refers to something like an envying or desiring after someone's possessions

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Particular circumstance someone's relationship or relationships or a certain status that another person has and Desiring that for oneself.

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It's a form of coveting whereby you indulge in a sort of discontentment Feeling as if what another person has or possesses is actually owed to you

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You deserve that you think to yourself. Why do they have that? I should have that or I wish

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I had that or I wish I had that to such a degree that I now feel Completely and utterly discontent with my current life circumstance at the moment now this sort of jealousy is not the same for God That which

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God desires is always just because whatsoever God desires is always good and right thus

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God cannot have Disordered desires because God cannot have disordered desires

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His jealousy is always warranted and it's rooted in his love justice and faithfulness

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Divine jealousy thus can be summarized as a relational attribute wherein God as God demands worship and obedience from his creatures and Expresses expresses displeasure when his creatures render these things to that which is not

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God. So Divine jealousy essentially as I said, it's relational but it ultimately it takes root in other

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Attributes of God and the ones I'll be sort of going over is love justice and faithfulness This attribute is rooted in love in that God sets aside a particular affection for those that he is in covenant with those whom he is in covenant with he loves in a particular manner such that any betrayal of this love from those with whom he's extending love any betrayal from them is of much greater like It's of a much greater degree.

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It's much worse because they should know better. They will elicit greater divine Displeasure from God God and his jealousy thus punishes his children yet at the same time he pursues them out of love knowing that proper worship of him will ultimately lead to our

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Prosperity when we read through the Old Testament and we see how God goes after Israel even though Israel consistently and constantly without fail almost always

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Betrays God yet. God still upholds his covenant with her and God still pursues her and that's why his jealousy here is rooted in love

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And that despite the fact that they go after these idols God still pursues after them Jealousy is also divine jealousy is also rooted in God's justice

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Because God's displeasure brought about by this jealousy occurs because in not worshiping and obeying

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God Man is performing an injustice against the very God who created them all men by nature know that God is to be reverenced in worship

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But it is through grace that men are enabled to know who this God is and how he ought to be

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Worshipped and then the final attribute which we'll discuss in relation to Jealousy would be divine jealousy is rooted in faithfulness and that God's jealousy stems from the closeness which he shares

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With those with whom he covenants God in being faithful to his people He expects them to also be faithful to him

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Thus he is jealous and he excludes any worship of any other gods for all that which is not

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God is a creature and thus Worship or religious adoration which would be owed to them would be wrong and unjust or unjust because this religious adoration is exclusive to God alone and All that being said that would basically be divine jealousy in a nutshell.

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That was a really good Matthew. Thank you There was a good comment. I saw by cosmic trees and he said correct me if I'm wrong

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But I think in the Hebrew the word jealous and zealous are the same and have the same root so I looked it up and it's true actually so kana is the word and it's interesting to me that in English we separate these two zealous is a

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Generally a positive connotation to be zealous for something jealousy generally has a negative connotation

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So we've taken this similar this Idea and we've created we have two different words to denote the positive and negative uses of it, but it's

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Essentially the same kind of thing and when we talk about the jealousy of God, of course It is a positive thing God ought to be jealous and it's not a negative quality it we think of it that way maybe that's unfortunate like I Don't know if this would take away from it because it obviously we have to translate into the

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English But it you know, I'm wondering this is thinking out loud on the spot But could this also be thought of as the zealous is zealously a word or the the zealotry of God?

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Is that also the same kind of concept perhaps and and that does feel different in English saying it that way

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God is zealous for himself and yeah, he should be so a

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Lot of comments coming in. Let's see. We got Sam who says after the attributes of God, maybe do a brief summary on church fathers

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Theologians or even one of the prophets of the Old Testament. That's not a bad idea. We'll consider that be fun Yeah, church fathers would be cool

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Actually, that would be a you know as Protestants especially to do the early church because because they're all

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Catholic and Orthodox there Yeah, Protestants don't know anything about the early church. Like we don't even know what you're talking about Actually, I never heard of the early church if we did that we'd convert

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You'd have to explain what the early church is to us first so that we can know And a father no man is supposed to be called father

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So I don't even that like that's heresy right there. It went from Jesus to Paul to Augustine to Luther to Billy Graham That's my church history.

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Yeah, and maybe Augustine and Luther maybe like it's really more I I'm pretty sure it was probably a direct jump from the

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Apostle Paul to Russell Moore. It's That's or maybe Beth Moore Russell Moore that's a little too patriarchal

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The Cosmic treason is really man. He's uh, you put a lot of good comments out there cause maybe you should join us on the podcast

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Next time and it would save the the work here so cosmic treason says

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Reductively my understanding of the definition of jealousy is a prophetic desire towards something that belongs to you and anger towards anything that threatens

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To harm or take it away Mm -hmm. I would say that's like a pause that would be like jealousy and like the virtuous sense

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Which is not like the sort of jealousy that scripture prohibits in regard to man So when I was defining jealousy for men,

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I was sort of being like it was a bit more simplistic like pop level But that game I was speaking specifically of how scripture defines it in relation to sinful jealousy with man

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Yeah, yeah, and I agree with your summary cosmic treason. That's good It's not even just so I guess the only thought

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I have is it's not just that it belongs to you It's that you actually have a duty to Defend it like it's if someone

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Tried to violate my wife Right, it's not it. There's nothing preferential about me taking a stand against it.

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I am required to do so Right. Yeah, I'm compelled and I think that's When God's jealous, this is it's just logical.

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It makes sense. It's It's part of his his attributes as being yeah, he can't do otherwise and that's not a limitation on him that's

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Just who he is Let's see

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Cosmic treason also says what we often mean when we say jealousy in modern day is really envy Okay, that's a good point wanting to be someone else occupy their position receive the benefits do them

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Yeah, I don't know how that happened. So that'd be an interesting study the etymology of the word Also say that His definition that he gave there is like how scripture would speak of jealousy in the negative sense

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I mean you go to scripture and you'll see like instances where it prohibits jealousy

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Specifically like in the New Testament. I can't remember the verse off the top of my head, but Yeah, like in Romans 13 13

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Let us walk properly is in the daytime not in orgies and drunkenness not in sexual immorality and sensuality

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Not in quarreling and jealousy. So I think that definition would be how scripture refers to jealousy and the negative sense

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Yeah, and there's a James 13 3 14 through 16. I just went over this in the

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Bible study that I lead But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and lie against the truth

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That wisdom is not which comes down from above but is earthly natural demonic where there's jealousy and selfish ambition

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There is disorder and every evil thing that's become such a big verse for me lately just or passage because it mentions selfish ambition twice and Connects it to the devil like it's not pulling any punches and jealousy is obviously part of this and That kind of you know that that Greed I guess makes the world go around so to speak

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I mean a lot of people are motivated to do better because they're trying to outclass someone else or They're trying to compete but it's not a healthy competition.

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It's a Trying to Take for themselves something that someone else has maybe a status or It's it's not you know, like ambitions not wrong, but selfish ambition is right and these things seem so Similar, but they're really not it's like the difference between wisdom from above wisdom from below.

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It's it makes a great deal of it it's also similar like Trying to parse a distinction between contentment versus Or like, you know

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Discontentment. I always get that word mixed up. This is where you see my English bad, but not being content It's like the difference between that but also being driven and wanting to pursue higher things

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While still being like Lord the circumstance I'm in right now Even if I'm not the most favorable to it, like, you know,

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I'm still thankful for everything you've given me So it can just be hard to parse things that scripture says sometimes

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Yeah, because if you keep reading in James chapter 4 and then into 5 he says

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He makes some category. He brings you some categories. For example God's sovereignty over time

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You should say if the Lord Wills that we will go to this town right and then he talks about Riches and how the rich man treats the poor man.

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So God's sovereignty over wealth He talks about God's sovereignty over time you shouldn't make oaths you shouldn't so all these things

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I think press a limitation upon us that we have a duty to God and We need to work within the boundaries of that duty always relying on God to direct us and to help us see

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What we ought to be doing but it's not the end is to glorify God and to fulfill our duty to him the end is not to Make ourselves in a

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I guess a smaller sense in a sense of like only self -satisfaction without God in mind feel fulfillment that's the

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I think the difference and It's hard it is because you slip into one you can often

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I know I do I slip in Thinking sometimes that you're doing the one and then realizing your motives are actually out of whack and you need to correct them.

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So Anyway good discussion and You know, I I really man we're already like 20 minutes in so this is good

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We haven't even talked about immigration. So speaking of being jealous for things We have a duty to our families and to our country and we have obviously situation on the border

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That's been in place for years. It's hopefully getting a little better, but we've talked about this many times on the

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American Churchman podcast and We're gonna talk about this again and we might go over some information we've already gone over but This is a new situation.

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So I think that's why we're doing it We asked David about it to beforehand at truth script and he said this was the fresh hot off the press

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I think he's just like pushing his articles to us. He's like do another one of my articles, but he wrote this my brother and I don't have it queued up.

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Hold on a minute here. I got a queue it up here I didn't have it queued up either. Don't worry. We're both behind. Oh, no.

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Oh, no. All right. Here it is Oh, that's not it. That's the video Here it is. It's the dignity

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Bill or the Dignity Act of 2025 and then here's the home

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Depot right there. I Well, I mean I didn't come up with that that yeah here so people can see

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Yeah, that's um, I Don't know what to say, you know exactly what this is right being in Florida and working in In the fields that you've worked in.

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Oh, yeah. I Think it's worse in California. I was a contractor in California for a bit and you go to Home Depot and it was like Even navigating the parking lot depending on which

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Home Depot you went to is difficult because there's so many day laborers outside but uh, all right, so He for those listening.

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It's just a picture of some migrants day laborers outside of a Home Depot next to the sign and There's another picture of Maria Salazar.

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Who's the Republican Congresswoman? By the way, she's your district in Florida.

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She's Floridian I saw I I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know but I might have to check

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I think she Represents. Well, I could probably look it up real quick. I think thought she represented

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Miami, but Yeah, probably not that I'm in Central, Florida. So Okay, let's see if I can find it.

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She right. Let's see the district 27 is what it says and That is

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Miami So, yeah over half of its in the ocean it's so it's like my it's like the southern tip of Key Biscayne, so Key Biscayne is part of it and the

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Miami Beach like the southern part of it So, I think that's a heavily Oh, I mean like all of Miami I think is pretty heavily

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Cuban right? I'm getting that right or I mean, it's a mix but isn't it known for being primarily?

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Cubans in that area you talk you're speaking Miami, right? Yeah, Miami. Yeah, definitely mostly

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Cubans Yeah, and she's the daughter of Cuban immigrant. She so yeah,

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I think her parents immigrated here from Cuba So, okay, that's which I think why she's Republican then it explains why she's

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Republican. That's exactly right Yeah there because the that's a weird dynamic I suppose because the parents are or the people who came here

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Escaping Fidel Castro were Republican but their children and especially their grandchildren Have kind of veered from that.

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So Mm -hmm as I understand it. So anyway the article For at truth script comm by the way plug for truth script

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Check it out. If you want to donate we are 501 c3 and you can also submit articles just scroll to the bottom but David talks about This act that was introduced on July 15th and the bill is

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Defended as being definitely not amnesty and it would essentially levy a small fine 7 ,000 over seven years to all those living in the u .s.

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Who entered before January 1st 2021 representative Salazar Leaned heavily on Christian rhetoric.

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So she said president Trump sir, then same God who saved you from death in, Pennsylvania One year ago is the same

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God who millions and millions are begging you for some kind of dignity Dig and then he gets in Yeah, well that and that's

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I think the crux of some of this is the messaging so he gets into What dignity is and why it was invoked?

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Let me see if I can find that portion Maybe it's slower. Okay. So the

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Old Testament there's a word. Hey dar in Hebrew translated as dignity and The James King James calls it beauty comeliness excellency glorious glory goodly honor and majesty

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But the English word is from two Latin words meaning to accept or take worth

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So it's to accept worth and so here's the thing. That's weird to me. They're not weird, but it's just it seems like a sleight of hand they're saying that in order to Ensure that these people who let's just be honest.

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They're technically criminals. They're violating the law being here To get extend dignity to them to give them dignity it's like they don't have it but we can give it to them we just have to provide them a

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Temporary worker status for seven years, which after that seven years they will be then

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Considered for renewal and there was a clip of Salazar I I saw it maybe two days ago where she's saying well at the end of the seven years

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She implies that maybe then someone could figure out how to make them citizens so I which is kind of what

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I suspected about this whole thing from the beginning, but it's just weird that it's like if you don't go for this act, you must be against dignity and You don't want to extend dignity to these these poor people who need it like as if we owe them something

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We don't we owe them dignity. Don't like we're not I guess giving them worth if we don't do this

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We're denying the Imago Dei or something so it's just a very manipulative way to frame the whole thing

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Which plays into the Christian kind of angle because Christians will risk I think they respond to that They like oh, of course,

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I'm for dignity. Oh, yeah. Well, it's just we're really weird to see like how the same people who will talk about don't you know make religion overly political or Don't let your politics become your religion these same people have this very odd liberalizing tendency with Christianity to say

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Okay, if America is a liberal democracy with open ish borders

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We have some border security but a free right for all peoples of the world to immigrate here at will However many they want to doesn't matter if that is the case that must mean that part of the

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Imago Dei Part of being made in God's image entails a certain set of human rights and one of these human rights is the right to reside within the

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United States of America and To not be deported. It's a very strange conclusion and when it would yeah

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It's you notice how it's tied in with dignity there because it's like somebody what is someone's do the ability to have?

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citizenship in the United States The idea that part of somebody's inherent worth is tied into their propensity for dignity in a nation -state is

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Absurd, it's silly but notice how people when they speak of this they'll tie it to dignity.

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They'll tie it to the Imago Dei They'll tie it to being compassionate. Oh, Jesus was a refugee Jesus was a brown -skinned socialist refugee

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And if you don't agree with me on this then you're you know, you're not a real Christian or something like that And obviously she's not gonna say all those things because she's in the

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Republican Party She's not a she wouldn't be a leftist I guess you could say but it's just there is this strange tendency to to liberalize

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Christianity instead of Christianizing, you know liberalism and It's just it's odd It's very strange

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But you see this happen a lot such that when you go into different forms of politics people automatically assume oh, wow, you're you're drifting from from the faith man or something weird like that when

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I Can talk to somebody who's of a more liberal persuasion and still say yes You are my brother or sister in Christ Even if I think what you're doing is silly and it oftentimes doesn't go the other way around Oftentimes they'll just say you're denying someone their dignity.

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You're depriving them of justice and because of this you hate God so good points all of that and And You said something that made me have a thought that I did not have before about this that I think

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I'll be Put out there because it's actually it's super interesting. So the idea that human rights universal human rights entail

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The ability to become a resident in the United States of America and perhaps a citizen

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Does what does that say about your view of the United States? All I'm saying is

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You must have a view of this country that it's some kind of a special Like I don't know.

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I don't know if I go so far as to say it's like Israel But there's definitely some kind of a covenantal relationship with God or a special mission from God that the

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United States Globalist American exceptionalism, you know where there's a certain because of how great

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America is It is now a fundamental human right for anybody to live here Right, and there's no

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Bible verse obviously that supports this that about any country it's but but to make that exception for the

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United States to say the United States is the country that everyone should if They are made in the image of God be allowed to come to Must imply that you think the

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United States is some kind of a Theocracy or something.

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I mean it's it's in that family. It's It's on a mission. It's on a divine mission And this is what oftentimes conservatives are often castigated for or broad bush brushed as that there are a bunch of the theocrats who

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Believe in American exceptionalism and think God's divinely favored the United States and how could you do that because what about all the other countries, but this kind of a

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Of a bill actually implies that very thing is my point Which is I find kind of rich.

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So anyway more about the act I don't know if David went into like great detail.

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I do I read the summary of it on The website this that website here the

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National Immigration Forum, which is more of a conservative kind of immigration website But my understanding is so if you came here before 2021 and you're an illegal migrant you automatically qualify to Pursue this if you are a dreamer

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You Automatically you have to take I think it's three different there's three different options for you

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You can go in the military. You can go to college or you can prove that you are you've been in the workforce for a certain amount of time in order to Qualify for a

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I'm trying to think I think it's actually citizenship for the dreamers. So the dreamers get extra stuff So it's actually kind of a complex bill.

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There's Some good things in there. We would agree with there's some enhanced border security stuff.

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There's also a Employer system that they set up and to monitor and there's these different Timeframes that employers in different fields, especially agriculture have where they have to comply with The act but everything should be traceable when someone comes into the country seeking asylum

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We can now match them with their family members using DNA tests. I actually didn't know that that wasn't happening

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That was a little shock to me. I was like what you need a bill for this. We're not already doing that That's crazy. Like that.

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Shouldn't we be doing that? That was in the bill and I don't know like on the scale that this is happening.

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I just don't know that how practical it is like They're gonna give raises to border guards.

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They're gonna hire more border guards obviously the big beautiful bill already allowed for that one of the other thing they're gonna do is they're going to hire more a

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Sign, I forget how they phrase it but it's those who would process the asylum seekers and they're gonna have these ports of entry and if you

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Don't come through a port of entry and you do it twice you're disqualified from coming in so they have to catch you obviously for that to happen, but But the idea is that there'll be these centers where you'll have medical care.

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You'll have You'll have all the access to all these services while you're in the process of seeking asylum and waiting for a judge to rule on Your case which

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I'm not a big fan of that's that's but supposedly This is gonna all pay for itself because that's seven thousand dollars over the course of seven years and I'm so skeptical about this

32:33

Being from Los Angeles originally. I know you're in Florida, which also is kind of a hot immigration state

32:39

Mm -hmm. I know the strain on health care is great and It's not like hospitals can just refuse you if you show up at the emergency room, right?

32:47

They're gonna treat you it How it gets paid for and stuff. I mean, that's a question that that you know, oftentimes the government's left hand holding the bag or the hospital is left holding the bag, but there that's who we are as Americans and I know several of hospitals in Los Angeles have shut down because of this kind of strain.

33:09

I don't buy that a thousand bucks a year is compensating for that kind of a strain

33:18

The you know, supposedly they're not going to be using our goods and services and I'm like how but how do you enforce that?

33:23

how do you that that's the big question is like practically how do you enforce all the things that the bill talks about that are

33:29

Supposed to be red meat for conservatives It seems like really what's going on here is

33:36

Whatever the number is, you know, 30 million people. Let's say who entered the country before 2021 how would you even know by the way when they entered right?

33:46

I mean, that's the thing too like how do you even determine these things, but They would all be qualified to stay here essentially that's really the long and short of it and who do you think they're voting for you know, that's one of the other provision by the way in the bill and I'll stop after this because I'm giving you all these details about the bill, but It I think it there's penalties in the bill for voting if you're an illegal migrant

34:09

But again, how do you I mean aren't there already isn't that already illegal? It's like Employers already aren't supposed to be hiring illegal migrants, right?

34:19

There's already laws on the books on these things So like we're gonna add more laws I I think experience should be our guide which means we should look at the last 50 years

34:27

See how that none of this has worked See how these laws have been disregarded and act accordingly, which means we got to have an aggressive deportation program

34:36

And we can't we have to have a no -nonsense Policy policies about all of this and enforce the laws we already have rather than these pipe dreams that end up just pushing the needle laughs, so That's my opinion on the bill.

34:50

I don't have you have anything that you caught your interest as I was talking there Matthew No, I like what you said near the end about how we we're at a point now where we kind of need to crack down And your brother said something in the article as well

35:05

Right before the why this matters section where it says the the Dignity Act Advocates claim that the bill would provide accountability for illegal immigrants at the very least doing out a or doling out a slap on the wrist but the path laid out by the bill appears to be much closer to a gentle tap while giving a shoulder massage and it's like that's so true and when you think about the nature of Immigration in this country and the amount of people coming in Legally or illegally

35:35

It's just it's insane. It's unstable and It's you know, it's doing more harm than good at the end of the day

35:43

And so right now we're at a a crisis point where we need to actually take this seriously

35:51

Even a slap on the wrist no more. We can't even do that And obviously, you know when we speak about dignity and the overuse of dignity

36:00

They're of course all human beings by virtue of being created in the image of God no matter how marred that image is of course all people have a sort of dignity or value and Intrinsic to them by virtue of their creation and God and being endowed with this image nevertheless

36:15

You can still act justly in times of crises and part of the way you do that right now with the immigration is you need?

36:23

To crack down you need to make sure that the problem is actually taken care of and it's for the sake

36:30

You know are it's for the sake of security. It's for It's for all these different reasons that we need to make sure that the problem gets solved

36:40

But I I just like what your your brother said near the end there about yeah, instead of it being a slap on the wrist

36:46

It's a gentle shoulder massage. It's a he's this is like an issue This is like his one issue more than others because he the field he works in frustration

36:56

Frustration But I mean I had a thought and how to escape me it was so profound guys

37:02

It would have dazzled everyone, but it's gone. Sorry Let's uh, let's go through the bill a little more.

37:08

Oh, by the way. Did you see this this? I don't know if you clicked on the link this evangelical immigration table

37:15

Letter that was given to all the members of Congress apparently It's co -sponsored by the

37:22

Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission Of course the National Association of Evangelicals the National Latino Evangelical Coalition Which I am not familiar with as much

37:31

World Relief and the Asian American Christian Collaborative, which I didn't know They were still around that was like the stop

37:36

Asian hate Organization that formed during kovat so they're all behind this and they're all basically the message of this letter is that if you're a congressperson a congressman you need to support this bill and The Christians the evangelical

37:55

Christians in particular are behind you that the polling says that evangelicals are all in favor of this even though they somehow voted for Donald Trump 81 % they they don't like his policies and they want the

38:07

Dignity Act and that's pretty much it like it's it's saying it's not amnesty and the

38:14

URLC David pointed out came out with a Statement I don't know where it is in this.

38:22

Oh Here's the post we'll just go to the post So the URL see themselves says the

38:27

URLC has never supported amnesty and never will the URLC has consistently Advocated for policies that reflect the will of the

38:33

SPC messengers who have for over a decade Supported strong border security and other measures including a pathway to legal status for those willing to follow appropriate restitutionary processes

38:42

You could drive a truck through that appropriate restitutionary processes. What is that? Yeah, this is not amnesty

38:48

Which requires nothing of those who receive the benefit? So it like it's not amnesty and technically speaking,

38:58

I guess like it's People have called it amnesty with steps.

39:03

And I think that's probably that may be a cynical read, but I think it's an accurate read that goes on experience here like You may be not giving

39:13

You know seven years you can live here and work here You're not giving them citizenship, but it is kicking the can down the road so that eventually the longer they're here

39:23

The more of a precedent it sets for them to continue to be here the more dependency And and here

39:30

I caught my profound thought it wasn't that profound But I remembered it if you were to let's take any other crime, okay

39:38

Stealing. Okay, you are taking something that does not belong to you. It's against the law

39:43

And you say okay, let's make a division here anyone who stole five years ago and before that We're going to create a program for you to continue to own the things that you took you can you can keep them but you have to pay a fine and And then at the end of this period of time at the seven years is up we will

40:05

Re -evaluate and maybe you can go on and keep them indefinitely or keep them another seven years

40:11

But but you can have that that whatever it is, you know, you stole a car you can keep that car, but if you

40:18

Committed the crime in the last five years. No, there's no Mercy for you on that you're gonna have to give it back like it doesn't make any sense, right?

40:28

absolutely, no sense and what it does I think is it incentivizes more thievery because People can look at that and they say well

40:36

America must not be serious about her laws. They don't enforce them They don't if you stay long enough

40:43

Then eventually you'll get what you want. If you could just hold on to that stolen object long enough.

40:48

Eventually. It's yours so better make sure you hide better make sure that you're in the shadows for as long as possible and If you do that, then eventually you'll be incorporated that I mean if you apply this to any other

41:03

Criminal activity it it's bonkers. It makes no sense. But for some reason on this issue like We're supposed to just believe that it does make sense

41:12

I think with this issue in particular the reason why is that people sort of don't think that way is because a lot of people don't view

41:21

Illegal entry into a country as something which is actually a crime. They may just think oh

41:26

This is a particular circumstance where the norms weren't totally followed, but somebody shouldn't be punished for that When in reality, which is why the left will call them

41:37

Undocumented immigrants or as the right will say illegal migrants because one side

41:43

Actually is properly viewing that their status is based on the action

41:49

They took and that action was illegal. Whereas the other people it's just like the circumstance in which they're living in is such that they do not have proper documentation and they need to get on those immediately they kind of have that posture and That that is sort of the difference in my view at least is that people don't actually view it as a crime that's why undocumented versus illegal and what we need to do is we need to show that it is a crime because First off, you know,

42:15

I mean the common talking point of the right is oh, well You're shaming all the people who got here legally, but you know that aside you're still doing an injustice to the nation you're entering into and Part of the fact that if you're a migrant or someone who gets here or something like that or say you move somewhere

42:32

Right now I'll give you an example. I'm I I have a different background right now because I'm not in my old apartment

42:38

I moved out on Monday and I moved to Different one temporarily until I move into the another one soon

42:45

And then yeah, I'm not gonna give you all my whole apartment spiel, but right now I'm this apartment I'm I didn't sign a lease for this.

42:52

I didn't do anything like that I am just here as a guest now if I just hung around for like a really long time

43:00

Way longer than I should have Should there be a process for me to like get this apartment or am

43:06

I showing myself to be an unworthy guest? Am I not doing an injustice to the other person who lives here?

43:12

Am I not doing an injustice to the person who is leasing this apartment or the complex to which it belongs?

43:18

You see like this actually is a crime if I were to stay here longer So actually it sounds like you're treating them like they don't have dignity.

43:27

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah Who's the one that's treating the you know, which party is not extending dignity?

43:36

Yeah, it's kind of a twisted way to frame the whole issue. That's a good way to put it Yeah I think the left does see it that way like they think that it's like you got you go to college and you're doing all

43:45

The work and you paid for all the courses, but you know what? you forgot to file your SAT score and it's gonna put the whole thing in jeopardy because the college requires this or you you know

43:55

Your vaccine paperwork or whatever and you just got to go down to the office and take care of it financial aid we'll figure it out and like it's just a

44:04

Procedural thing it's a paperwork thing and that's not what we're talking about No, we're talking about a crime and this is

44:11

I think we're more leftist Christians have a problem And even Christians who don't think of themselves as leftists, but they're they bought into the liberal order on some level if you like take a time machine back to ancient

44:25

Israel and If you let's say we use a different word. You just said Matthew that the right says illegal migrant.

44:32

Maybe let's call them Aliens or let's call them

44:37

I mean, I don't know that so sojourner is not really the word because they're not really so turning through the United States or anything

44:42

But like sojourning into there. Yeah, they're they're they're foreigners. Let's put it that way. They're foreigners

44:48

So they have a classification. There's a distinction between them and the people who are here.

44:53

They don't get to be part of it fully How would you treat them in ancient Israel? It's pretty clear that you do treat them according to the laws that you have

45:03

So if they commit a crime you treat them according to the crime they've committed But that doesn't mean that they get to lead you there.

45:09

You can't have a foreign king, right? They don't get to participate in the religious worship of ancient

45:15

Israel you couldn't yet to be from the tribe of Levi They can't own property there I mean There's some limitations in the cities of what they can have and what they can't but they can't actually have

45:24

Generational attachment to the land because that your Jubilee all goes back to the original tribes if you are a foreigner you can if you are

45:37

Enslaved you can actually be perpetually enslaved if you are an Israelite, you cannot be you know, what does that seem fair?

45:46

well, it's part of the privileges that come along with being a member of the Nation of Israel and They are not extended to those who are designated as foreigners

45:59

That is not fair in the minds of I think modern leftists they would think that's a second -class citizenship, or I don't know how they frame it, but That was the circumstance you're and you're not getting welfare benefits.

46:12

Really? I mean the best example we can find and it's the only one I can think of is Ruth was able to glean from the corners of the field and even then it's a near relative of you know of of her husband, so this is

46:30

This is not quite the same but if you want to use Ruth you want to use a Moabitess, okay

46:37

Let's it's a completely different welfare system Like it's not you don't get to go to the hospital and they just treat you and you leave them holding the bag

46:47

So if you want to arrange every American institution to conform to those standards somehow Then you know that maybe you can start making a case, but we're nowhere near that So, what do you do under the present modern circumstances that we're in the people are given the task and the responsibility of controlling the borders of their country and This is a an issue for the sword

47:10

This is a when you have it on the scale that we've had it. It is an invasion it is You can't even figure out who's a criminal in the sense of like violent crime and who's not you can't figure out

47:21

You can't make all the appropriate designations and this bill is supposed to solve that But when have we ever seen this issue solved?

47:29

We we have no experience to back this up in the last 40 years That's kind of my rant but I do see this as biblical or I do see this as like a

47:41

There is no biblical warrant to say that you must support a measure like this

47:47

In fact, I think if you bring the Bible into it You're going to find that the principles there are going to favor opposing a bill like this

47:57

Mm -hmm So I'll get to some comments here in a second. We have anything to add to that Matthew no,

48:05

I think that uh, I Think what you said is a good and yeah, we're um about near the end of the article now,

48:12

I think About the why oh, yeah section. We just it was a pretty it was a very succinct

48:18

I mean everybody should go read the article after listening to this because it's very succinct and I really enjoyed it David's always a good one yeah, he's a good writer and he knows this issue so well because of the field he works in and So it's just he just comes so naturally.

48:35

He's an ice officer, right? I Think at times he perhaps considers

48:44

Envisions a different career path. Yeah, but he's no he teaches ESL. So he he works with a

48:51

Lot of illegal migrants and he sees the abuse to the system and he did that in New York now he does it in Tennessee I'm probably giving way too much information, but he's been so Open about this online that I don't know that he really cares much anymore

49:05

It's just I I think he cares about these kids, right? Here's the thing like Anyone who works in this field who's a

49:12

Christian really does care about these kids or if it's not kids if they're a social worker, they care about the families that care about the people that are coming, but That does not mean that they

49:23

I guess two things. It doesn't mean that they want to Let their care

49:29

Suspend the care they should have for those who are actually citizens who are there kinsmen according to the flesh if you will who actually live here and The other thing is they see the abuse in the system.

49:43

They can see how these people are generally exploited and How the children often suffer because of the

49:54

Basically, they're oftentimes dropped off like they're the schools will have like a meal program and it's like the schools are now going to be the sort of the function that the parents normally would have it becomes another

50:07

Avenue to direct benefits and It's It's just kind of sad like they don't have even facilities set up to handle this problem in the school system

50:18

So you end up having classrooms where you have all these different learning levels just kind of together and it's very hard to even

50:25

Teach and learn anything When you have someone who can speak broken English and someone who's just fresh like they they don't know any

50:31

English Different ages different like it's just kind of a mess and it probably depends on where you are But anyway, that's uh,

50:39

I think my brother's coming from that background And there were a few really good

50:45

Oh at one point David makes I should probably mention he does mention the Romans 13 violation And I think he doesn't want to let the all the coven people get away with that You know try to ram that down our throats and it's like you guys you're so inconsistent on this

50:59

So Matt says Mark Rubio. Sorry is it Mark? Yeah, Marco Rubio is also of Cuban descent truth

51:06

Nick So is Ted Cruz, right? They're both Cubans Javier Aliba says

51:14

I grew up in Miami -Dade. It is another borough of New York City. It's not conservative anymore. I Somehow I'm not surprised

51:22

I was born in Cuba once the K this is interesting once the K through 12 and the

51:27

Universe the universal I guess system works. They're evil. The kids are liberals I said

51:33

God is present in their home countries. Go be a light unto the world back there

51:38

And he also says I wasn't born here. I'm not ashamed deport them harder Thank you have here very cool

51:47

Javier I appreciate your program you don't have to read my comments just venting Yeah, I I will say this

51:52

Matthew I don't know if this fits your experience, but some of the people the most against illegal migration happen to be legal immigrants who feel like They're People cut in line in front of them or something.

52:04

Yeah, so no, I've seen that too Yeah, yeah, and I I'm all for like I think legal immigration is also a big problem like you

52:12

I think we probably we we let in too many people through that Avenue as well, but You do have people and Javier sounds like one of them who they come here.

52:23

They seek a better life. They know that they're they have foreign a foreign background and their intention is to integrate and for their children's children to eventually

52:36

You know as time goes on to have a full integration into this country And they seem to value it oftentimes at least

52:44

I've been privileged to know many who seem to very much be appreciative because they can contrast this country with where they

52:50

Came from and let's just say America is pretty exceptional So so true.

52:55

That's why everyone wants to come here So so Javier if it ever comes to you know, deporting, you know you hear these things on X sometimes from people who just want like every foreigner who's

53:07

Deported whether illegal illegal in their minds like it's you know, I don't know the lines are in different places

53:14

I will say the sovereign right is the one who who creates or Decides the exceptions and if I'm ever the sovereign

53:21

Javier gets to stay Javier I will be the sovereign and we will

53:31

Repeat he's saying repeal hard seller. Javier is definitely staying All right,

53:36

Amber Trump was found guilty of felonies and found liable for fraud and sexual abuse

53:42

It made the GOP love him even more Would it even matter to them if Trump if Trump flew to Epstein Island multiple times?

53:50

And then she says when normal people get complacent and don't vote What happens is the president is a felon who was found liable for fraud and sexual abuse

53:57

You know, this just sounds like a question or a comment that was intended for Matthew. That's what it sounds like.

54:03

Oh, really? Just I just I'm just pondering. Let's see No, I'm looking at it again, yeah, no,

54:12

I'm so happy one of that we could spend I have no response She stumped me. I can't even lie.

54:18

I can't I can't defend him Yeah, I did this break today. I mean this has been

54:24

Didn't Elon Musk tease that like oh, no. No, um What was

54:29

I gonna say? I think somebody reported about that a while ago I haven't actually looked into that a whole lot yet yeah, there

54:36

I know AOC posted a video today and it was of Epstein from 2010 and he's saying he does not there

54:46

He doesn't say that him and Trump were around underage girls, but he doesn't not say it. He know he pled the fifth

54:51

I'm pretty glad that yeah, he pled the fifth. Yeah So it implies that they must have been and I don't know you see those videos.

54:58

It's like yeah, I mean Is it surprising that Trump was the playboy type no

55:05

Did he do like, you know to what extent was he involved in the egregious things

55:12

Epstein was involved with I Remain skeptical and I remain willing to give the benefit of the doubt and until things are proven but you know, it wouldn't surprise me if Trump was in places he should never have been because that's that's

55:26

Trump's career in New York and You know, I I would never defend him on things that are indefensible certainly but Yeah, I don't really

55:37

I mean maybe we'll make all the Trump people mad on that I don't know I mean I still voted for Trump. I don't given the options.

55:42

I'm not regretting that but we do need virtuous people in those Positions for sure. Yeah. Yeah, so All right.

55:50

Well, that's pretty much that's the show guys and We appreciate all the support

55:55

Please go to truth script comm and if you like I said want to contribute or you want to write an article?

56:02

there are ways to do that scroll to the bottom and We just appreciate the prayers as well.

56:08

There's a lot going on It's just sort of impressed upon me as I have a lot of I know Matthew and I are both in these transitional periods kind of but I am in the process of pursuing eldership and I'm involved at two different churches and ministry capacities and It's a lot like there's

56:25

I'm just sort of overwhelmed with the fact that there are So many people in need of Christ and that we cannot

56:33

Substitute for Christ. And so if you never hear me say this on the podcast I do want you to hear it at some point and I'll say it now that No matter where you are in life.

56:44

What you everyone has their sin everyone has the things that they've done that violate God's law and God is a jealous

56:51

God as Matthew was talking about at the beginning of this and you need to seek Christ You need to seek the grace and forgiveness that are offered through Jesus Christ and if you don't know him, you need to come to know him through repentance and faith and That's the good news of the gospel is that Christ will forgive you and he will send his

57:09

Holy Spirit as a seal To help illuminate scripture so you understand his will and he'll give you new desires

57:15

So you don't want to sin anymore. You want to follow him and he can remake you That's what the born -again experience is.

57:22

And so that's that's something that I just feel compelled to say that I don't know who's all listening, but this isn't just about politics and social stuff we believe that our lives continue beyond the grave and so Yeah, please reach out if you want more clarification on any of that, but you know

57:39

Matthew and I are both Obviously Christians but to that means something to us it's not just an identity or that we wear we actually love the

57:48

Lord Jesus Christ and He's the difference in our lives. So there you go

57:55

Well put Thanks. All right. Well, we are at the end of the podcast.