Oct 16, 2026 Show with Andrea Schwartz on “Think Again: The Hidden Assumptions Behind Tough Questions”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 16th day of October 2026.

I'm absolutely thrilled to have a returning guest today. Her name is Andrea Schwartz, and she is a family and Christian education advocate at the Calcedon Foundation, where she has been working for four years and where she leads the Calcedon Teacher Training Institute, the author of nine books and co-host of the Out of the Question podcast, who will address the theme of her latest book, Think Again, The Hidden Assumptions Behind Tough Questions.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Andrea Schwartz. Thanks for having me again. And did I once again mispronounce?

No, you did not. OK. There are three acceptable ways, and I think your friend Joseph Moorcraft says it the way you say it, Calcedon. That's right. However, that's appropriate, as is Calcedon, which is how I say it, only because that's how I heard.

That's what I meant by that. I know that R .J. Rushdooney pronounced it differently than Dr. Moorcraft. He was a mutual friend of ours, by the way, ladies and gentlemen. But I forgot which way was the standard way of pronouncing it at the Calcedon Foundation.

And why don't you tell our listeners about the Calcedon Foundation?

Certainly. Calcedon is an online ministry as well as a book ministry that can be—you can learn about it at calcedon .edu. It was founded in 1965 by R .J. Rushdooney, who has since gone to be with the Lord.

And the whole purpose of it was, and remains, to be able to relate all of Scripture to all of life. Unfortunately, we live in a day now that some people compartmentalize things so much that they don't think that the Bible speaks to every area of life and thought.

And Calcedon exists not only to educate people along these lines, but to help them be self-governing so that when the circumstances in life arise that are not expected, they're used to going to the Scripture for guidance.

And that's calcedon .edu. And by the way, folks, you may be interested in not only listening to previous interviews I've had with Andrea Schwartz, but you can also hear an interview I did with the son of R .J. Rushdooney, Mark Rushdooney.

I interviewed him back in December of 2025 on his book, Roussos John Rushdooney, A Brief History of the Life and Ministry of My Father. And I found that quite fascinating. And I had a great time interviewing Mark.

I believe that was the first time I ever interviewed Mark. But you can look that up and just type in Rushdooney, R-U-S-H-D-O-O-N-Y in the search engine at ironsharpensironradio .com and that will come up.

And of course, if you want to hear Andrea Schwartz, her previous interviews here on R-U-S-H-W-A-R-T-Z, and I've interviewed her twice previously to today. But I'm sure you'll find those fascinating interviews as well, perhaps even especially on her testimony of coming out of Scientology.

It's not often that you hear interviews with Christians who have been Scientologists in the past, and I found that to be quite a fascinating interview. Well, the book that we are addressing today, your latest book, Think Again, The Hidden Assumptions Behind Tough Questions, from what I understand, that every chapter of the book is basically a synopsis, a summary, or the most important things you gleaned out of interviews that you have conducted on your own podcast.

And as I've already mentioned, that podcast is called Out of the Question. And perhaps before I forget, tell our listeners how they can listen to that podcast.

Well, it's available on many of the podcast channels. Apple Play. Alexa, I think, has it. Spotify. You can also go to the Calcedon website, calcedon .edu, and put in podcasts, and you'll see. I think we just recorded our 408th episode, and we started in 2018.

So anyway, by the time the book was actually gone to the printer, we had had 400 episodes, and so, yeah, the book is newly released. And a lot of people asked, like, why would you call your podcast Out of the Question?

Well, people will often use that expression when they're saying things like, I don't want to talk about it. That's out of the question. We aren't going to do it. But I took a different take on it. It was that I believed, the more I looked at some very current issues, that believers especially were not always asking the right question when the time came to dig into a matter and figure out what's right or wrong.

So my take on the title was that we're going to go out of the question. We're going to pull out of the question the real question behind the question, because sometimes people don't even want to for being polite or something like that.

I don't want to ask this question. Well, as I said in the introduction of the book, I guess I've always been asking questions to the point that teachers used to be calling my mother and asking her, could you please ask Andrea to stop asking so many questions?

I don't think I ever really did, and it drives my husband crazy, actually, because I come back from a doctor visit. Well, the doctor said, I didn't ask him that. Well, why didn't you ask him that? That would be an important thing to ask him.

So I guess it was natural to call it out of the question.

Yes, well, I think it's a great title, and it highlights some of the most crucial areas of life that either most people have experienced themselves or they know someone that has experienced these crucial matters that go through every chapter in the book.

And one of the most controversial issues that face Christians today is the area of in vitro fertilization. You address that topic in the book. And this is something that I have discovered. I did a program on Iron Shepherd and Zion Radio with a very vociferous opponent to in vitro fertilization.

And one of the things that I discovered is that there is a great level of ignorance in the body of Christ over this. Even when I have discussed this with brethren in Christ in my own theological camp, theologically Reformed folks, they don't understand that fertilized eggs, embryos, human beings are being discarded and frozen for later use possibly, but not necessarily.

And it ends up, the end result of this is more babies dying than in abortions. The main difference is the intention. People seeking out in vitro fertilization have noble intentions, but they may, whether they're ignorant of the situation or not, I'm sure that when they have interviews over this procedure, they learn what's going on.

But tell us about this and why you think that the questions being asked over in vitro fertilization in the first place are the wrong questions.

All right. So for the longest time, I had a gut reaction that there was something wrong with IVF, which is the acronym for in vitro fertilization. And then I ran across a woman who had written extensively on a variety of topics, abortion, euthanasia, and she even tackled in vitro fertilization.

And I was very struck by her because her whole presentation wasn't based on condemnation. It was based on providing information and giving an outlook that maybe a lot of people hadn't considered. Pardon me.

So here's what it amounts to. What most people think of in terms of IVF is that an infertile couple desires to have children for whatever reason they don't want to adopt. Maybe it's hard to adopt. Maybe they can't afford the cost of adoption.

And so this is a medical procedure that will extract genetic material from mom and from dad, and the child is actually formed, you might say, in a Petri dish, a test tube. We say test tube babies, but it's not really a test tube.

And so the whole point of my interview, and her name is Stephanie Gray Connors, and then what I extracted from it for the book, is that it's a mindset. Are children gifts or are they products? Now, if you go to a doctor and you pay him to do this or that and then you get a result, well, it's much more like a manufactured product than a gift from God.

The dominion mandate to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth involved a mother and a father who love each other or supposed to love each other. And so the process of IVF has a lot to do with eliminating quote-unquote unpleasant results.

And I'll give you a really good example. I have a granddaughter who has cystic fibrosis. Cystic fibrosis is a genetic disease that comes from the mother and the father both having a recessive gene that were that.

And then in God's economy, when those two come together, they have a child that has cystic fibrosis or CF. Well, what happens a lot of times now are people will go ahead and fertilize a bunch of ovum and then do genetic testing and eliminate the ones that might have CF.

Well, praise God, my son and his wife did not do that. I can't imagine life without this girl, my granddaughter. But what we're now doing is it's not unlike going to the grocery store and picking apples, which, okay, this one has a little bit of a dent.

I won't take this one. And it changes the outlook because it's not an inexpensive procedure. And on top of that, it doesn't always work. And just the process of getting the mother ready to have multiple eggs is injecting a whole bunch of hormones into her body that aren't necessarily healthy for her.

So these extreme measures to get the quote-unquote product we want, oftentimes then dehumanizes the person, and it's easy to forget that human beings are made in God's image.

Yes, and by the way, folks, if you ever want to listen to the interview that I conducted with Laura Clausen and John Speed on In Vitro Fertilization and the Question of Biblical Ethics and Morality, you could go to iantreppanzionradio .com and just type in the two words in vitro, I-N-V-I-T-R-O, and that interview will come up.

I'm surprised that I didn't categorize it under the commonly used initials, IVF. So if you type that in the search engine, that will not come up. So type in in vitro, and it will. And we have to just clarify again that we are not here to cast dispersion on motivation and the desire for parents longing to have children.

This goes back to biblical days, the longing to have a child and the heartache of being barren and so on.

Let me just add this, Chris, because it's very easy to assign only positive motives. All right? Some people just are insisting that if the person who comes out of this union does not reflect his or her DNA, then I don't really want the child.

But more serious is the fact that the whole IVF process now is actually serving to allow for things like two homosexual men deciding they want a child, going ahead, hiring a surrogate, paying for certain eggs, and then, and it's been in the news so people might be aware of it, if there's some sort of deformity or some sort of genetic problem, then sometimes the couple says, we're no longer going to pay for this, and they demand an abortion.

And so people talk about slippery slopes. As soon as good motivation opens the door to science trying to be God, it's not a surprise that when you have these gross deviations. And let me just add one other thing.

I've met people who have been coming into the world through IVF. This is not to say they're not people. And any more you would say than a person who was born from rape. We don't have to agree with rape to say this person has value and is made in God's image.

Well, we can disagree with IVF without deciding this person is less than human.

Yes, and the issue of homosexuality and the whole concept of people of the same gender being married, you and I know they are not married. They're just calling their rebellious relationships marriage.

But this is becoming more and more acceptable even in so-called conservative circles. You have major conservative talking heads with podcasts and on such networks as Fox News who are open homosexuals married to people of the same gender.

And I know of at least one well-known so-called conservative who had what you just mentioned done. They had an in vitro fertilization with a surrogate female and have been raising this child. And they may have had more than one that way.

I don't know. But this is, in my opinion, a criminal act of child abuse when you're purposely depriving a child or children of a mother or a father. If you have two lesbian people doing this. But to purposely keep a child deprived of a mother or father is, I think, a criminal act of abuse.

And it's really like treating raising children like a laboratory rat experiment.

I would agree. And I'd go one step further in as much as the whole process. So especially with two men who want children or two women. They have disposable income, you might say, because they don't have families.

But where did they go? They go to Harvard. They go to Yale because they want smart women that somehow or other the rest of what happened in that woman's life, how she was raised, how she was educated.

And so it really becomes like a designer baby. And that's where gifts have been turned into products.

Training Character and Courage

And you go into another chapter in your book on the development of character and the unrealistic and unbiblical and illogical way that many people, even Christians, approach the idea of character. They view it as something that perhaps is supposed to be an innate aspect of their children growing up, somehow absorbing it through osmosis or something, rather than it being a trained and cultivated aspect of their lives.

If you could explain in further detail about that.

Right. I think it goes back to the idea that we expect the person who's going to operate on us to be trained. He doesn't wake up one day and say, I think I want to be a doctor. Out comes the scalpel. And by the way, you need your appendix out.

I think I'll do that for you. So we understand there's this whole idea of training that has to take place. Well, you have to train people to be faithful. It doesn't happen automatically. As a matter of fact, when the scripture says, train up a child in the way he should go, that means that, for example, if you catch your child lying, there are consequences for lying.

And then there's instruction as to how you might not fall into that temptation again. And so the homeschool environment, I actually think, and here's my bias, is the ideal place to do this because you have 24 -7 or at least close to 24 -7 exposure to your children.

And you're not going to be surprised that you have children who are sinners. Anybody who's surprised that anybody is a sinner obviously hasn't read the Bible because there's only one person who was ever born that was not sinful, and that's Jesus Christ.

And so if you're going to expect somebody is going to be able to perform under pressure, whether it's an athlete, whether it's a physician, whether it's a lawyer, or just any sort of technician, most people want to know what's your resume, what's your experience.

And so that chapter was based on a Christian woman who was homeschooled, was in the ranks of professional golf, and she made the point because she was competing in the USGA Women's Open. And she was doing it, I think she was five or six months pregnant.

And all the news people were just like, oh, how wonderful, look what you're doing. And then she made the point, well, it's nice that you celebrate this, but you guys also celebrate abortion. My child is a child.

A baby in the womb is a child. And then it got to the point where her interview was censored. They had to take out the part where she was critical of a pro-abortion view. And I used her as an example because she could have just shut her mouth, but she didn't.

She said, I'm going to be a witness for Jesus Christ. And she is, and she was.

Hallelujah. I love to hear that when people are so passionate about something that's true that they're willing to risk fame, fortune, the adoration of fans, et cetera, by just boldly declaring something, especially when it is as important as that.

Now tell us about your thoughts on courage, which is connected to this. There's a lot of gender blending in our day and age, obviously. And there is the emasculating of men, the effeminizing of men, and so on.

Not to say that, obviously, women possess great strength. It is, I think, often been recognized that the act of childbirth is something that men would, if God had designed us to do it, would be too squeamish and frightened to go through that kind of agony.

But tell us about your ideas on courage and strength.

Well, people think that courage means that you don't have any hesitation and you may not even be afraid of whatever you're going to face. But to be a follower of Jesus Christ requires faithfulness, and that has to do with obedience.

And sometimes we're called to give a reason for the hope that's within us. And sometimes it would be way more comfortable not to have to do that, not to be challenged in the workplace or challenged at family dinners about what you believe and why.

And so there's a chapter in the book that I interviewed a man who actually works in law enforcement, and he was talking about how the first time he ever went into a jiu-jitsu studio, he thought the fact that he'd been in the military and everything else, that he was all that.

And he was matched against what he describes as kind of a scrawny 16-year-old. Well, he started off by going, oh, I think I'll be easy on this guy. Well, he was just toppled immediately. Wow. And then he thought, well, maybe I'll give a little bit more effort, but I still don't want to demoralize him on the mat again.

And then he realized that there was a technique that allowed you to prevail with jiu-jitsu, but what it took was strength under control. And he applied it then to how if people are going to do what the Scripture says in terms of make disciples, to be a representative of Christ, etc., it doesn't mean you have to be weak, but you have to take that strength and make sure it's under control.

And that kind of does away with the macho man, who is basically going to show you how strong he is. He said he had quite a lesson to realize that he wasn't as much of the macho man as he thought. And so that was, I think, the fourth chapter in the book.

And I thought it was useful because most women do not want weak men. They may say they do, but they don't. They don't. But for a man to exercise his strength with control and discipline and everything else is what God requires.

And so I especially liked that interview because he was fun to interview. And he was willing to be humble and say, I got on my butt there and I wasn't expecting to be.

Right. I have heard from friends of mine that actually know New Testament Greek that when Christ said, blessed are the meek, that's exactly what he was referring to. A lot of people misunderstand meek and what that means, but I've heard it means exactly strength under control.

Exactly. As Dr. Rush Jr. used to say, broken to harness. That when a horse was meeked, it meant that now he was useful because he wasn't a wild horse. And so broken to the harness of Jesus Christ, that's a good way to look at it.

In fact, when strength, physical strength is not in control, it can very often, if not most often, be evidence of weakness of mind and heart. The person who does not put reins on his strength and power needs to prove something, is frightened of something.

The men that abuse their wives physically are afraid of some kind of rebellion of the wife, something that they can't control. So they unleash this physical outburst of violence and it really just shows the weakness of the man, not the strength.

I think that also applies to governments. I think by the time you have tyranny, it means that I can't control, I can't govern any way other than by coercion or force. So tyranny is actually a sign of weakness in the system.

Yes, it is. And we have to go to our first commercial break. And if anybody has a question for Andrea yourself, our email address as always is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune God.

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Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com, to place your order. Welcome back, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full program is Andrea Schwartz, and we are discussing her book, Think Again, The Hidden Assumptions Behind Tough Questions.

And if you have a question for Andrea yourself, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence, if you live outside of the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Responding to Questions About Same-Sex Parenting

And we do have an anonymous question for you, Andrea. We have a question where the listener asks, when we are having a conversation with homosexuals who have either adopted a child or have a child or children through in vitro fertilization of a surrogate, if they were to ask us during our conversation, when they realize, as Christians, we are very opposed to their lifestyle, which is actually a death style, since it is damning, and that they really have no right, despite what laws may say, they have a right, to have children without both parents of two different genders.

If they were to ask in light of this, so are you saying that the law should take away our children? How should we answer that kind of a question?

A great way to look at your own assumptions. So before you answer a person who might bring that challenge, what do you believe the Word of God says? And who's responsible for the fact that we have a country that has not only said this lifestyle, this practice, is not an abomination, it's something that should be protected and encouraged, you're really dealing with a hard issue there.

So if this person really wanted to know your opinion, as opposed to actually fight with you, there's no fight here, right? I think oftentimes there is a sense that Christians are condemning people who don't agree with them, or that don't agree with the Bible, I should say.

The fact is, we don't have the ability to condemn anyone. The Bible says they're already condemned. The difference between a believer and someone who is not is that we've moved outside of the condemnation.

So I don't know that it would be particularly fruitful to say, well, the government should come in and take away your children, when it is the legal practice of the U .S. currently that says it's totally okay for them not only to adopt children, but that we're going to recognize this thing as a marriage, when, as Chris, you pointed out, it's not.

So sometimes it's good to just find out, why is the person asking? If the person really doesn't care about what Scripture says, it's hard to imagine that you're going to have a great deal of impact.

Yes, and when those who hate the Scriptures and hate Christ, even if they would never dare say that, their worldview, their ideology, their words, and their behavior prove that they actually do hate the Word of God and hate Jesus Christ, the one that's actually explained and taught in the Bible.

I have found when they ask provocative questions like that, that they are trying to set the Christian up to say something that enables them or in their minds justifies them to accuse us of hate and accuse us of hate speech, accuse us of wanting a nation that robs them of their liberty, and that kind of thing.

That's the way I have found.

So that's why I would caution a person who is actually interacting and having conversation, check your own assumptions. I've heard many a Christian say, well, if two people love each other, if they're monogamous, if they just stay true to each other, and we've forgotten that God's law is authoritative.

In other words, I don't know any of us are going to be comfortable standing before our Creator one day and going, well, I actually thought I had a better point of view than you do. And so that's why I was trying to be loving.

It's not loving if you see somebody about to drive off a cliff to not stop them. They might not listen to you, but the loving thing to do is to tell them there's a cliff. You know what I mean?

Well, thank you, Anonymous. I hope that was helpful for you. And let's see, we have another listener. We have Gordon in Newark, New Jersey, and Gordon says, Do you know of the best resource to explain in detail why in vitro fertilization is not an option for a Christian?

I reference in my book Stephanie Gray Connor's book itself. And so right now, it says it in the back of the book. You'll be able to check me on this, Chris. But she's written a very good book on the subject.

And if I'm not mistaken, she also has a number of YouTube videos. You see, sometimes as believers, we can lead with our emotions. And it's not that our emotions are bad. It's just that God's word has to be preeminent.

There are plenty of accounts in Scripture that we might say, ooh, that must have been difficult or that was hard. Or I think of the man who accidentally touched the ark and God took away his life. Yeah, I was like, wow, that would have been me.

There's nothing that says that Uzo is not in the presence of the Lord. It's just that God expects his word to be followed. So I think we all need to check. And do we walk by faith or sight? You might see two people who have been together for decades and say, but they're such a lovely couple.

Okay, are you going to walk by sight or are you going to say, this is what the word of God says? And you have to first do that in your own spirit, because you'll be a terrible evangelist if you don't believe what you're talking about.

Thank you, Gordon.

Choosing a Biblically Faithful Church

I'd like to ask some of your thoughts that you've written about in the book on what to look for in a church. That is something that nearly every one of the listeners in our audience has experienced, unless they have always been a member of the same church and intend never to leave because they never intend to move away or they expect the church where they're a member to remain faithful to its biblical origins and so on.

But a lot of folks throughout their life, they have to make changes for one reason or another, whether it's because they have to relocate for financial reasons or employment reasons or a whole host of other reasons to be closer to loved ones in other parts of the country or even world.

And sometimes it's because a church has departed from their biblical roots and they have to look for a new church. So what are the right questions to be asking the elders of a church before you even consider attending or joining that church?

So in the book, I used two interviews that were done that brought this chapter about. And one was my discussion with a man by the name of Tom Wadsworth who, quite frankly, Chris, you might try to track down and interview him yourself.

He's a great interviewer. But his point was, let's look at the first century church, the church that was the closest to the apostles and the first believers. And the word church did not connote a building.

It did not connote some sort of corporation. It was an assembly of people. It was a congregation. And so in the first century, it wasn't always easy to be a believer. And sometimes they met in hidden circumstances.

They most often met in homes. And so the whole idea was that the body of Christ was to edify, build each other up, support each other through good times and difficult times. And so nowadays, people go to a church because they like the preaching or they go to the church because they like the people or they like the extracurricular activities or they like the music.

And the emphasis in the book is, how about looking at a place where you can serve God and your brothers and sisters in Christ? Everybody's got different gifts. Everybody's got different interests. But we should be looking at where we could make a contribution to further God's kingdom in where we attend.

And that doesn't mean you don't pay attention to theology or you don't pay attention to the Christian culture because some people are going to feel very uncomfortable depending on whether or not the other folks at that church are obedient to God's word.

But the major thrust is, how can you contribute to other people? And you might not agree theologically on every point, but the real basis should be, do these people love the Lord Jesus Christ? And do they have fruits that manifest that?

Yes, it has always saddened me to know people who believe the Bible accurately. They have the correct theology in my estimation. Of course, I'm not an infallible myself, but I agree with them on their theological positions that they have come to.

They may have identical theological positions to mine or close to that. And yet they choose to be a member of a church that is possibly even the polar opposite of those beliefs, typically within an evangelical framework of some kind.

But they are more concerned over programs for their kids, things to keep their kids occupied. Sometimes I think it's to get them out of their hair. It's like glorified babysitting. And they want to go to a church that has Broadway production plays on Easter and Christmas and so on.