Jared Longshore should have stayed a Baptist

Open Air Theology Intro Music and Show Setup

What you want but you. Misfits. A misfit in the trailer park at night. A misprint with the six cents. Been sick ever since my brother died of an od. My two cents never made sense. Either to me or anyone else.

Inside of the sheet fence. My knight smith on my right side. Why are you staring at your cop. Dot sign and my john hancock on the dotted line. Tell me what's the bottom line. The bottom line is i'm not right.

I'm not left. But this elephant won't fight. There's nothing left but the spotlight. Hold my beer. You can find me in the moonlight. You can say what you want. But you won't around me. You can say what you want.

You can say what you. I'm whips in the deep end. And i can't find my assigned seat to sit in my theology. Don't fit in black sheep of the reformation sheep pen to the reformed. I'm just another baptist baptized again.

The bastard child of anabaptist host. A child of reformation society. We don't need your education. Give me a bible and a bookshelf of dead men. Cigars bourbons and beer cans. Bow ties tattoos and bearded men making reformation great.

Hosts Introduce Themselves and Their Ministries

Again. You can say what you want. You can say what. All right. Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the open air theology show. My name is jeff and i'm one of the hosts here of open air theology. I am also a pastor.

Slash elder. Covenant reform baptist church in talahoma tennessee. If you're ever in this area stop by. Hang out with your boy. I'm gonna pass it down to the man the myth the ex-mormon the legend.

I am pastor brayden uh valley baptist church here in southern idaho. It's a real blessing to be able to see you guys tonight. Um our church service is at 11 and if you live in this area i'd love to see you every lord's day.

It'd be a real blessing to worship our triune god with one another. I have a youtube channel called reformed ex-mormon and it's uh like i said before it's a great blessing to be a co-host with these these godly and and wonderful sometimes a little too harsh mean and rude brothers in the faith.

I'm just joking.

Hey everybody my name is tom shepherd. I'm with grace bible church of bernie. I'm an evangelist. There we head out the and uh and share the gospel in the streets of texas. I'm a co-host here uh with these gentlemen here using that word small gentlemen because sometimes they're rude and mean calvinists just saying.

I also host a youtube channel called even if none which is all about.

Evangelism. So glad to be here all right. Sounds good. Hope everyone's having a wonderful day. A wonderful lord's day. I hope you were able to gather together with the saints. Well since we're doing this on a lord's day evening night whatever it is that you are we want to talk about.

We like to begin each uh show talking about how our how our lord's day sabbath went. And mine was really good man. Like i really i really you know like um the worship was really good. Uh man we we just sang such rich and beautiful music man.

Thanks to uh my co-elder pastor cal. He kind of outlines everything that we're going to do and it's just like it just gets you where you need to be. In the spirit. Right. I saw someone say something.

I think there's quoting alice to beg if you want to know someone's theology or something like that. Uh listen to their worship music. I'm butchering the quote but but man it's just like it just reminds me of of you know of of the music that we listen to and it's just christ.

Exalting i felt like my message went really good today. It flowed. Well last week if you heard my message i was really struggling with a migraine. This week was good. I was able to to preach on the triumphant entry.

So i got i went from uh john 12 verse 12 to 19. It was really good man. Through studying it this week the lord opened my eyes on some stuff that i never really saw before. And just grateful for his grace and allowing me to.

Stand before his people and proclaim his name. Amen amen. What do you. What about you brayden. Oh it was. It was a blessed lord's day. I did a uh just just wonderful time fellowshiping with the saints.

We had shared meal today and so that was all. That's always a blessing to sit down and chat and joke and and just just get along with one another. Um today i just preached from daniel 231 to 35 um and then looked at the broader context.

It was a topical message that i gave today just looking and focusing on the kingdom of god. And uh something that a lot of christians especially my my dear uh futurist brothers out there and sisters out there uh there's there's some great spiritual realities that they are ignoring i would articulate and argue for it.

So it was it was a blessing to see those things that christ has earned in this death burial resurrection. And my message was an hour long today so wow there was that i i you're becoming a man. I only got through about 80 percent of my sermon too at that time when i saw like the the people starting to nod off i was like all right.

Well you gotta wrap this up because people.

Are it's all they start nodding off five minutes after i get started. I don't care.

So yeah it was it was a good message it was fun it was fun text to be in so cool. Well so uh today.

We are um our associate pastor frank frank gutting was preaching on the glory of christ or the glory of god. Actually um went to exodus talking about show me your glory. He stayed a little bit in there but it was a topical sermon and uh he went through you know bounced around through the psalms you know scribe to yahweh.

His you know the glory he deserves you know. And then went into ephesians all that. But on top of that uh this was the first weekend that we did evangelism both on saturday and on the lord's day as well.

And so there was a there was a kid and i showed you a photo of a young man yesterday. I mean i think he was maybe 12 years old and he was listening to the gospel being preached in open air and and i could have punished myself for not going over to him and and talking with him a little more he got a bible.

He he met the other evangelism uh that our team which we had 11 people go out yesterday by the way which was awesome. And he was gone and he was just on my heart all night. And we went out there after the lord's day after service.

And sure enough there he was again and got to got to me his name is justin man. He has he has a great understanding of the gospel. He he was able to repeat back i ask him questions as to what he heard and man i i just hope that the lord moved on his heart.

It was such a blessing. It was a great lord's day man. I mean that tops it off right there. Yeah amen amen.

Evangelism, New Members, and the Joy of Witnessing

Yeah i was able to go out evangelize on friday and it was it was a very sweet time. We got a new guy at our church jake and he and sometimes he gets on here and watches these. He's a like brayden is an ex-mormon.

Jake is an ex-jehovah witness and hoping to one day ever. Uh have him on here and kind of do an interview. So we'll interview him. I think it's really cool right now like i'm really good friends with an ex-mormon.

And now i got an ex-jehovah witness who's a part of our church. He's out with me evangelizing like this is just great things that the lord is doing. Right. Yeah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Well i'm so blessed that the that that the lord has given us this this great commission.

And you know like a lot of people and it is right like like witnessing the people is frightening but man i'm telling you what there's no greater joy. Yeah there's just no greater joy right. I just love being out there doing the lord's work.

Telling people about jesus. Amen. And i try to tell people all the time like listen. I know it's scary. I know it's terrifying. But man if you if you just if you just put yourself out on the limb and do it.

You will want to you will want to keep doing it. God will use you. God. Yeah. God will use you. Yeah. I mean he uses this broken vessel. That's right. I mean if he gonna use jeff he's gonna use me. Right.

Introducing the Debate on Jared Longshore and Baptistic Covenant Theology

All right. So tonight's topic jared longshore should have stayed a baptist. What happened brother. What happened. You let them press fees get to you. Yeah. He changed that number. Right. There. He subtracted.

Yeah. He's trying to go to 1646 mm-hmm. Man. Okay so what we're gonna do here. Uh we. Uh. So so if you don't know if you have if you're if you aren't aware james excuse me. James white and jared longshore had a debate on.

Who is it what would you call it it was it was it was who is uh what is the.

Uh yeah. Who is. Yeah. So to to kind of break it down for you it was it was as if two debates was going on. Right. So you had james white debating from using exegetically using hebrews chapter 7 all the way to chapter 10 and then jared longshore uh is is not necessarily using the hebrews uh text like james is but he's coming at it from a theological view.

Now i think both of them are fine right. I i i would definitely have a debate with someone on this subject just using hebrews 7 through 10 or i will definitely have a debate with someone on this subject just using the theological framework.

The problem was was both of them came at this the way that they wanted to and it. And and it just left a lot of questions unanswered. So i want to give my flowers to both gentlemen. Right. James did what james do.

I mean james did what james. James did what james does. The dues. Right. Games do dude. Right. He takes the the biblical text and he presents it. Right. And then. And then jared longshore did what he did.

Right. He came at it from a theological framework. Yeah. And a couple couple things regarding the.

Debate real quick too. That was uh james white's probably 200th uh debate it was jared longshore's.

First it was correct. Yeah yeah yeah. And as someone who just had their first public moderated debate.

Right. Wow yeah yeah brilliant guy. Yeah both of those guys. Well i don't i i'll speak for myself on this. They're are a million times smarter than me. It's that's what i do though. I mean yeah.

Yeah i mean just find your average everyday doll right point my cricket brayden before we get into it. Do you have any thoughts about it. I haven't gotten a chance to.

Watch the whole video yet i know james white won the debate because he was arguing it from a baptistic standpoint and i already know that and so i've had the the great blessing to study hebrews uh seven to ten in several different contexts and james definitely came at it with with the more biblical view.

But i'm sure that there are some left uh unanswered left uh left.

Unanswered questions that so you can't talk either so i mean we're just a bunch of guys that can't.

Talk yeah then now yeah oh yeah no absolutely we are going to point out that that there are some things that were said that both of them are wrong in just yeah absolutely yeah yeah yeah.

All right. Good brothers in the lord. Absolutely both of them. Listen. I cannot. I cannot tell you how much james white has done for me. Not. Not in just my work right. Like he's helped me provide for my family by advertising me.

But but on my spiritual journey. Right. James white is kind of the godfather. Okay. Right. Like like i love james white. If he called me right now and asked me to do something for him i would 100 see whatever it was that he asked me to do.

But the the deal is is that they're coming at this from two different frameworks. And so it's so when jared says something i feel like it's jane. It's not connecting with james because james is looking at it from a different view.

James is not looking at it from a 1689 covenant baptist covenant theology. Or you would call a federalist a 69 federalist and so and so. Um jared longshore is is able to say things and i don't think it's connecting with james.

Right. And so it's not that james messed messed up. I.

Just missed it so we just had a wonderful question asked that i i hope we answer later but i don't think it's the right time to answer it quite yet. But that is a great question that that was just.

Asked by mr hudson. On mr hudson. Mr hudson welcome if you've not. I've not seen your your name here but welcome. Thank you for joining us. Do you guys know mr hudson. I don't i do not. Great question.

Though. Well let's try to address that later but all right. Well remind me we'll pull it up on the thing and look at it. Yeah. All right. Well let's get started gentlemen. All right. We're going to uh go.

And we're going to so. So. Uh tom will you uh introduce this first section while he's pulling.

It up. Yeah so. So this is a a one minute section one minute clip of james white basically summing up his opening statement in his argument. Who is in the new covenant. What is it made up of. Is it made up of just regenerate people or is it a mixed congregation the same way old testament of israel would be.

So he's going to answer that question. What do you got your hand up for. I don't.

Know if you can see my hand or not just because of how small my hand is but yeah what's the minute.

Marker that i'm going to with this one. I can get it. Let's go let's go 26 45 and let's go through 26 45. Yeah and we'll go through 27 55. It'll it'll probably close before that but.

Ready. Yeah there we go. Christ actually is. But this is a singular argument from chapter 7 to chapter 10. Chapter 8 is the longest biblical citation. So here's the issue if we're going to identify the id who is in the new covenant.

Who is in the new covenant in our day today are those whose sins have been forgiven whose iniquities have been taken away from the least the greatest of them they know god. And therefore those the people to whom you give the covenant sign.

You don't give the covenant sign to people who do not make a profession of faith in jesus christ in hopes that someday they will. And if you do then you've got to ask answer some some questions. Are you saying that for example when when two when a christian husband and wife have children the church grows.

Jared has said that we need to understand how that works because hopefully as reformed people we don't want to go to any type of sacerdotalism. We don't want to go there. So how do we avoid doing that.

That can be the question for the rest of our discussion. Since i didn't start my timer on time i don't want to go over time so i will stop there and hopefully remember to start the timer next time. So i don't have this problem.

But uh there's a quick introduction to the biblical argument and i'm looking forward to hearing jared's response. You want me to pause it. Yeah. Yeah.

That was great. Yeah amen. I i would i would just clarify real fast for the audience if they don't. If this is completely foreign you don't know who james white or jared longshore. You have no idea of the differences between uh reformed baptist covenant theology versus presbyterian covenant theology it all is dealing with especially in light of the covenant of grace that which is is clarified in the new testament who are the members of that covenant and who is to receive the sign because of those members being in that covenant.

And so as reformed baptists we're saying all the elect are part of the covenant and you only give to assign to somebody that you can ensure is in the covenant. And so therefore it is credo. Baptism versus the pedo baptist is saying that children are included in this covenant regardless of profession based off the merit of their parents they're included in this and therefore they should receive the sign before a profession of faith that shows their elect nature in god.

Right. So that that's really the argument that's going on here. And so what james has just elaborated on is saying only those that are in the covenant should be receiving the sign and only those inside the covenant are saved and none are saved outside of it.

None aren't saved inside of it. And so it's reformed baptist covenant theology that you walk.

Right. And one of the proofs that's outside of the the verses that he used i would go to romans chapter 8 verse 9 it says however you are not of the flesh in the spirit but if indeed the spirit of god dwells in you.

But if anyone does not have the spirit of christ he does not belong to him and so the spirit of christ is only for the regenerate. So if we don't have christ if we don't have the holy spirit we've not been born again.

The holy spirit doesn't reside reside in us and we should not be partaking in the sign. Yeah another scriptural proof that i i.

Think it's matthew 21 verse 43 to 47. I'm going to totally butcher the quote so forgive me ahead. It's the area of scripture where christ talks about him being the stone that is rejected by the builders and that anybody that falls upon the stone will be broken into pieces and anyone that stone falls upon will be shattered to dust.

It says that this this in in relation to the vine grower parable he says this kingdom is being taken and given to another nation producing the fruit of it. Now if you consider that it's a singular nation but we know that the gospel which is what's being talked about the kingdom of god mark 115 that the kingdom that jesus goes into the city of galilee saying that the kingdom of god was at hand repent and believe the gospel.

This kingdom is the gospel going forth. Right. This is this comes from my sermon today. The kingdom is the the stone is christ. The kingdom is all the people of god in christ. And so when it says one nation uh well we know that romans one uh that there's no distinction between jew or gentile for we're all made one in what christ jesus.

So that's the the nation the nation right there the the israel of god the people of god that this kingdom is being taken from the jews in that day and given.

And so there's several scriptural proofs that you can go to for this. And and so what the what jared is trying to do before his argument he's holding. He's trying to show continuity. From the old testament.

From the old testament where were the where the scripture used the the term the people of god the nation of israel which was made up of people who believed and who did not believe. There were people within that nation that were a mixed congregation of people.

Some of them had saving faith pointing to christ. That's how everybody is saved is through christ. And then there's another group of people within that nation. And where it gets confusing is because the scripture talks about the nation israel the people of god the nation israel.

But within that community within that community there are both believing and unbelieving people. Yeah and so like.

Just to kind of say something that we've said before right. Because he's going to be jared's going to be walking like talking about the continuity and discontinuity. And this is where i think presbyterians actually fall on their face because that it's.

It's kind of like they're uh again. And i've used this analogy before. Right. You have uh the guy chasing after the coyote. Right. And he's trying to. Or the the guys. No. No the guy that's trying to shoot the rabbit.

Are are you watching any of those cartoons. They stick a gun into the hoe and the barrel comes back out points at them. They pull the trigger and they shoot themselves. Right. Simply because of of the continuity aspect of those that were in the old covenant they would enter the old covenant through birth and then they will part then they would take the sign.

So in the old covenant you had to be born if you were a male child. Then you eight days later you were circumcised. You were given the sign of the covenant. Right. And so the new covenant has continuity with that.

The only discontinuity would be the the sign is different. It's no longer circumcision. It's baptism. And it's no longer uh the the natural birth. It's the spiritual birth. It's pauline ganassia. It's regeneration.

It's the new birth. You must be born again. And those who are born again right infants in christ they receive the new covenant sign which is baptism. So birth before sign. Right. Right. Covenant natural birth sign.

New covenant spiritual birth sign. Amen. Good. We missed we missed such a.

Like jeff how dare you not bring up that analogy of elmer fudd. I know you've said it before but that would have been the perfect thumbnail for this elmer fudd with jared uh jared longshore on.

It's just so everybody knows the graphic. You guys might have known that it was done by an amateur this last time and and jeff was just being nice but um it it was it was found wanting it wasn't it was no one was sitting on.

James white was sitting on. No yeah he was sitting on.

That was good that was that was good. Yeah the idea was good yeah yeah yeah it was good. So you're.

Right it is absolutely braden's fault. It's all it is. You didn't have time for us. No he's got too.

Much going on when you're always carrying these guys it's really easy to point blame.

These shoulders with those hands you couldn't carry anything.

Look look do you guys see how i'm holding you guys up right now. I can't even see your hand.

I'm sorry. Where were we where were you.

All right. I'm pulling this back up. Look at that. All right.

The New Covenant, Covenant Signs, and Regenerate Membership

Okay so we need to go. So now we're going to go to uh jared's kind of opening statement you want.

To start i believe at 28. Right. Jeff. Well if we're going to go through his whole opening statement we're going to need to speed up the uh his his talk right. Um and again we might not get. I don't. I'm not sure if we're going to get done completely with this tonight.

Yeah. So here's the other thing.

Because there's a couple of pay i mean if you guys would pay attention here minute 30 20 we're going to hear jared say something. See if you guys check catch it. Um i caught it these guys are going to catch it uh and i won't say any more on there but there's look through these things and if you have any questions or say hey stop or have a question.

You know. Yeah. Hi brian do you know how.

To speed up the. Uh i do all right. Yeah. So speed it up a little bit and then you see you see how.

I'm still underneath you guys. I'm carrying you right now don't you worry. I got you i pulled.

This thing up on the video screen. Look at. I got i got jeff right there. I'm holding them up. Look.

All right. Y 'all so i i just let me know when to pause. All right. You just do what we tell you to.

Being able to have something to always protect myself with this bruna allows me to have that peace of mind.

Like a pro with 10 seconds to go. Dr white. Very nice. Well that's fast. Good lord. And uh same goes for you. Uh jared i will. Um i'll come on give you a one minute one. Like i have to slow that down a little bit.

Your timer. Your time will begin as soon as you start speaking. Okay i'll read this.

Let me begin by thanking james for having 1 .5 and a good man my brother in christ which makes.

Debating. Oh my lord. Everybody welcome to open air theology. We are professionals.

Good lord that was fast. That's the micro machine. Man that was good you you would have said.

Minutes on that intellectual privilege at the door winning guys i can't get it to go.

Okay so start start around. Minute. Oh we're losing people as we speak.

All right. Let's try it here we go. All right while all of our good listeners know that.

Intersectional teams and victim identity are the devil you must adopt them. Just this one.

For this debate only slow down brother guys i don't know how to get go back to.

Middle top 1 .5. I have it. Look look jeff normal real fast and see if it fixes it. How about that.

So by the way there is the echo over against james's hegemonic power. Okay so that is at 1 .5.

It's just the okay do two five yeah the echo is going to be there like 0 .25 so then it goes real.

Slow. Yes that's no. No jack leg. You mean 1 .25. Yeah that's some rolling papers. Getting the side we.

Should get right down to it. I want to get into the hebrews. We should do that. In the rebuttal i'll touch on it here but i have a this statement i've prepared here. The prompt states the new covenant consists of only regenerate persons and that is the crucial question.

I grant that if this is true then the rest of the prompt follows. So i will focus all of my attention on the central thing disagreeing with the prompt in favor of the claim the new covenant does not only consist of but those who profess faith in christ and their children.

The first thing to do in order to determine who new covenant members are is to define the new covenant itself. A member is one.

Thing and cost all right. So he's talking about a costco member is one thing or i meant a costco is one thing but then the member is another. So he's speaking of the covenant as a membership.

With costco right. So as if so like what i would used to do is i would i would want to go in when i was with my brothers uh to costco when where we live to go get free samples and what we would do is we'd say oh yeah mom and dad are inside and so because of mom and dad having the membership we could go in without a membership to get the snacks right.

Is that kind of what he's getting at.

I that's that's it. Yeah there you go here's your sign. Can you play that at normal just because my.

Brain is not as smart as you guys all right. Well if we have to play it at normal maybe we shouldn't.

Go over everything because this it'll take. But there's okay. Yeah but there's i mean there's.

Good stuff in here that needs that needs to be spoken on. Yeah but i don't think james white touched because it would just right. It wasn't what he was talking about. Okay and play so am i going normal play.

Normal play.

Let's go itself is another. So it is with the new covenant and new covenant members and that word new and new covenant implies that there was an older version of it. The bible has an old testament and a new testament but only one lord one one gracious redemption.

He says that there's a new version of it right. All right. That's not what the new covenant is. The new covenant is not a new version of the old covenant right. So this is like if you grew if if you know i was a child in the 80s right.

And there was this this game and i was talking about today in sunday school but those i can't remember what i think. There's this game to where you. You had these these like little toy monkeys and their arms were shaped like this.

And you would connect and you would try to pick up a monkey with the monkey right. By by trying to get the arms. Never mind. Whatever. Anyway thank you. This is why by the way just listen. Don't bring bigfoot into it.

Okay. He's done nothing to deserve your ridicule. You're right. He's done nothing. Except anyway. So they would see. Well y 'all all right. So they would see the old covenants as you know like so so the covenant of grace beginning in genesis 3 15 so that is its conception and that all the other covenants so that abrahamic uh mosaic davidic they're linked to the to it right.

Right. But they also would say that as ministrations. But they would also say that the new covenant is also just an administration of that one covenant of grace where all the other covenants are linked to right.

And so he's going to say that here in a minute too in minute 30 so let's play this to you about minute let's play it to a minute three uh 30 20 both the 1689 baptist confession 7 -2 as well as.

The westminster confession affirm god's one covenant of grace and in order to define the.

Covenant we need. Okay 30. Now now he's saying here that both the the 1689 and the westminster both affirm the one covenant of quite of grace of grace. Yes. Now how he defines it. Now. You just said that it's inaugurated.

It's inaugurated. Or it's conception. Genesis. Yeah genesis 3 15. Which.

It's not which i'll um. So so let me read genesis 3 15. Dude look at you bro look at you man.

Oh guys little hands you can do whatever you want. Okay so now remember guys you guys remember this is that jared is saying and and and james heard this that 1689 and westminister hold to one covenant of grace and what he's saying is is that one covenant of grace spans old covenant or old testament and new testament.

That's what he's saying and that's where he's going with that.

Correct. And the argument would be that it was inaugurated. The conception of this one covenant began in genesis 3 15. Here's what genesis 3 15 says. So this is after adam and eve have been deceived and have eaten from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil whatever that fruit was it says i will put enmity between you speaking to the serpent and the woman and between your offspring.

So that's the offspring of the serpent and her offspring the offspring of the woman. He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. So there's going to be an offspring from the woman who is going to bruise the head of the serpent and he is only going to bruise the heel of the serpent.

So he is saying that this right here is the conception is the inauguration of the covenant of grace. It was announced. Yeah it was so. So. So if you watched our previous conversations about this we showed how there's certain things that has to be in the text in order for something to qualify as a covenant.

And we walk through all of them to show you that all these things are there. Right. But you're told what you're going to do and what not to do. And if you do what you're not supposed to do then a punishment will be given that those three things are not found in genesis chapter 3 verse 15.

And so our view as reformed baptists we don't believe that the inauguration of the covenant of grace is right here but the announcement of it the promise right here we see a promise of a covenant. The promise is that that an offspring is going to come from the woman that will bruise the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel.

And that took place on calvary's heel when christ was crucified. So when christ was crucified that's when the inauguration of the covenant of grace.

Began. Yeah that's a good question mr hudson. Just real fast he's asking if if if an old covenant when a new covenant comes if it ends that other covenant. And no it does not. Um so no noah's covenant is not ended.

That that covenant still exists today. Um the you would see that they're they're the. The mosaic covenant is ratified re-ratified in abraham right. So no a new covenant does not end an old covenant. However in hebrews 8 it's saying that that covenant that included law and obedience that produced life but death upon breaking it has become obsolete because the covenant of grace has now been initiated or inaugurated.

And that was where grace and life.

Are given thus producing obedience. Right. So i would just look at it like this. So the so so the noahic covenant is a is a covenant that's always going to be here. Right. All right. So you have the adamic covenant.

When the abrahamic covenant came it did not get rid of the adamic. When the when the mosaic covenant come it did not get rid of the abrahamic or the adamic. And when the davidic covenant was given it did not get rid of so on and so forth.

But when the new covenant is given the old covenant ends. The scriptures tells us in license chapter 3 that the law was only until.

Price. Right. So go ahead. So i was going to say hebrews 8 is also very clear in this. It says. What is ever growing old and obsolete is ready to disappear. So so and i'll read it verbatim here. And speaking of a new covenant he makes the first one which is referring back to the laws of moses and the the covenant therein the first one obsolete and what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.