October 24, 2025 Show with Christine Schwan on “Holy Yoga???-Now There’s A Stretch!”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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How Yoga Entered a Christian's Life Through Pride and Deception

I was recently at a Bible conference in Ephrata, Pennsylvania, the Future of Christendom conference that featured, among other speakers, two of my friends, Pastor Jeff Durbin of Apologia Church and also an up-and-coming apologist that many of you are going to be hearing a lot more from, I believe, with every fiber of my being, Eli Ayala, who is really a rising star in the field of apologetics.

But during this conference, there was a Q &A session, and someone asked whether or not it was appropriate for Christians to participate in yoga. And when the panelists were answering that question, Jeff Durbin happened to call out to the woman who is my guest today, Christine Schwan, and had her give a few comments of her own since she had been a yoga instructor for at least eight years, and she abandoned that after becoming a born-again believer in Christ Jesus, and she was warning the audience about how dangerous that activity is, having its roots in the occult and paganism, Hinduism and Satanism.

And I immediately said to myself, I've got to get this woman on my show. I can't remember ever doing a full program on yoga and its dangers. I've had programs and guests where it has come up as a part of a subject, but I've never spent a two-hour show delving deeply into it with an expert on the issue.

I'm so thrilled that Christine Schwan agreed to come on the program. As I said, she is a former yoga instructor from 2008 to 2016, a former adjunct professor of anatomy and physiology from 2006 to 2021, and she is currently serving as executive assistant to the elders at Apologia Church in Mesa, Arizona.

And today we are addressing holy yoga. Now there is a stretch, a warning to all Christians about the inseparable links between yoga and the occult, paganism, and Satanism. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, Christine Schwan.

It's a pleasure to be on. Thank you so very much, Chris. I was hesitant, I admit, when you came up to ask me this, but I absolutely must give a defense of the faith, apologia apologia, and I am ready and happy to answer questions and share what I know.

Well, I am thrilled that you actually correctly pronounced apologia, even though your church does not.

Oh, we do know that.

I can remember before my longtime dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries was an elder there. He would constantly rib Jeff Durbin about the mispronunciation of apologia, and finally he caved in and pronounces it that way himself, now that he's an elder there.

That's right, he is an elder, but he has taught us all, and he reminds us every time he's on the pulpit, just a little broad rules.

Christine Schwan's Background and How Yoga Drew Her In

Well, I'd like to know something about your background as far as what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised, and then I know that you, according to conversations we've already had, very early on in your life, back in your teen years, have been heavily involved in health, fitness, and exercise, aerobics, and competitive athletics, and so on.

But tell us about your background and what originally lured you into the study and practice of yoga.

Oh, thank you. I was raised in a Roman Catholic family. I attended a Roman Catholic grade school as well as high school, and in my home, I was one of six, but we were taught at the time that was the Roman Catholic teaching, you do not open a Bible, you do not touch it, because that was for the priests.

And we did have a big Bible, I remember that, I believed, I always had questions against that faith, but we were told we were Catholics, quote-unquote, and you thought you were Christian as that word came a little bit more prevalent.

So I was raised in that false religion, I call it now, knowing the truth of God, and so therefore, thinking I'm a Christian, well, one, I was always in athletics, as I've shared with you, and I love the body, I've always been out there playing sports since I was five years old, just always hung around with my brothers, played baseball with them.

So that's just part of my being, God created me, I love to move, I cannot sit, I have to climb, I have to run, I have to jog, you name it, I have to do something. Every single day, you can ask the elders.

In terms of what got me into the yoga, I fought it, I fought it until 2007. Being in fitness, I mean, well, one, I am a speech-language pathologist by my degrees, undergrad and graduate, so my minor was exercise science, but I knew I couldn't really support my two young children at the time, so I love communication, and I just love the human body.

So, speech pathology. Anyway, I fought it because I thought yoga, the little I knew about it, I didn't even know it was a thing, it was just stretching, it was just the sissy side of working out. I'm being honest and transparent, but it was when I was in a really dark time in my life, just a lot was going on, and my sister-in-law said, here, read this book, Eat, Pray, Love, and in it they mentioned yoga, and she said, you should do some yoga, and I fought it, fought it, and I finally said, okay, I'll go to one class, it happened to be a hot yoga class, and it was a Bikram class, people know, what is that?

And I couldn't even finish half the class, I had to lay down because I could not breathe.

Wow, that's coming from somebody like you, who has always been physically fit and very active.

Well, yes, it wasn't the physical fitness, no, it was the fact. You're in a 110, 15-degree room with humidity.

Hence the word hot yoga.

Hot, you know, correct, very dangerous, but coming from a desert, we don't know what humidity was, my body does not know what humidity is, did not, so that challenged me, even laying on the floor. But anyway, what it did, though, was it got to my ego, my pride, and it was, I'm not going to let this get me, that was, I remember it as I remember it, the hope that Satan got me, I now know was that, so I went back again, and then I could do it a little bit longer, and again, and again, so it hooked me from my pride, and it made me feel like, oh, I could finally do that, because I conquered, so I'm athletic, I love challenges, I conquered it, I did it, and the more I did it, the more I thought, wow, I'd love to teach it, being a teacher inherently, in what I would do with the anatomy, physiology, and other things, it just said, I want to take this teacher training, because I love, I want to share it with people, it made me feel so good, it made me feel, and I'm using air quotes, people can't see that, but it made me feel at peace, because I came, I was in a very depressed state of mind at the time, you don't need to know the why, but it was that, and so I felt so good, I felt at peace, and then they used the words that I thought I knew, it's, oh, this is a spiritual thing, and, and, oh, they talked about, gets you closer to God, now, again, not knowing at all what that was, or who they were talking about, it sure wasn't my God, but I didn't know that, it just kind of helped me, in my, and so it hooked me, and then I went into teacher training from that point on, I still work out, I still do, but went into teacher training.

What Yoga Means and Why Its Roots Are in Hinduism

Now, why don't you,.

Also, which would be a very important element of the interview, explain exactly what yoga is, including what the word means, and tell us something about the origins, during that Q &A at the conference, where you, at the request of Jeff Durbin, began to explain a little bit about it, it is inseparably linked and rooted in Hinduism, but tell us more about that.

Excellent question, because it has become, the Y-O-G-A, yoga has become so westernized in our culture, now, in this country, that people think yoga is a physical thing, that it's just yoga, but the word yoga is from the Sanskrit, which comes from East India, in India, the Hindu religion, at that time, thousand, a thousand years ago, Sanskrit, so it means to yoke, or the union of the body, the mind, with the spirit, with God, and again, same words are being used, spirit and God, so yoga means to yoke the body, mind, and spirit with God, it is not referring to that physical act, the physical practice of this, these poses, what we in America think is yoga, is actually just a pathway for the individual who's practicing this religion of Hindu, to get closer to their God, their Rahma, their Gods, plural, in actuality, and it's through that yoking, they want you to quiet your mind, and stop the chatter, and empty your mind, literally, so that you could become one with the spirit, and that's the essence, the truth, about what yoga is,.

It is part of the Hindu religion, still to this day. And were you, during the process of learning more about yoga, and even to the point of becoming an instructor, was this in any way also luring you into even contemplating becoming a Hindu, or was this just something that you knew was an interesting fact about yoga's origins, but you were never seriously led into that direction?

That's a great question, so if I have to step back to about the 1990s, again, just going through these challenging times in my life, being divorced early on, the Catholic Church says, I did not, I stepped away from the Catholic Church, that was not something I was going to pursue, they said I couldn't do anything that they told me I could originally do, like the different sacraments.

So anyway, I got into Word of Faith, I got into Joel Osteen in 1990, Beth Moore, Joyce Myers, I had their Bibles, I went to a quote, non-denominational church, where what I now know, they were preaching false, they weren't even preaching the gospel, they were preaching the, gosh, seeker-sensitive, it makes you feel good, it appeals to yourself, you become the idol.

So it was making me feel better, it was helping me thinking I'm being spiritual, and so that was early on, that's early on. Again, keep in mind, I was not a born-again Christian at that point, I was just seeking, knowing this now, thinking I'm a Christian.

So when I went then and took yoga, they were using the same words, right? They were using all the words I've already shared, this is, there's God, and there's spirituality, and there's peace, and we want, you know, just unity with God.

Okay, so I can see where the veil of deceit started early on in that, in the 1990s, and I was into New Age, the New Age practice, New Thought, you know, there's Doreen Virtue, there's mediums, there's psychics, there's all those things.

And Doreen has since become a Christian as well.

Well, that's part of my story, you're correct, you're correct, yes, no, she sure has, and that's why I mentioned her name, but there were many others still in that practice going on. And I don't know if I've finished answering the question yet at this point, so I did not think anything about going into the teacher training.

It was just another thing, because I went into training to be an aerobic instructor, and I was a personal trainer. I mean, you always have to learn and study things, so I thought, oh, this is just part of another training where I'm using my body, which, okay, when I was in the training, and I found out you have to go through the 200 hours, it was only 20 hours of the 200 was in the body, anatomy and physiology, and that's a key point we'll touch on later.

But the rest of the 200 hours, aside from the practice, is the history, the practice, the pathways, the sutras, all of this, Ganana yoga, everything. So for the remainder of that, you are learning the Hindu religion.

You are. You're learning it. You know that when you're doing it, but in my mind, I kept thinking, oh, well, I'm reading my Bible, my Jolostean Bible. I believe in God. I'm going to say my prayers, and I preempt all that, because I know many of you hearing think you do the same thing, and that it's okay because you do that.

So I was deceived. I'm telling you, everything that went forward, nowhere in it did the thought of the, oh, this is a Hindu religion, and having to learn all their different, not all their different gods, but you had to learn a lot of them, because the poses are after the gods.

It did not even, it did not even convict my heart. It tickled my ears is what it did, and that's how you know you're being deceived by Satan. I will be honest with that. But again, I came from that word of faith, you know, false gospel church that says it's Christian when it doesn't even preach the gospel.

Of the true Jesus. Yes, and there are very bizarre things involved in the word of faith movement that resemble the occult, even like speaking things into existence, speaking realities and truth into existence just by audibly uttering things and all kinds of bizarre stuff.

So you are just basically, to wrap up what I asked you about any interest in entering into Hinduism as a religion of your own, it seems that you are just finding that element of yoga fascinating, but nothing that was luring you into saying, you know, I'm going to actually consider becoming a Hindu.

Nothing like that ever.

Happened. Oh, no, no, no, not at all. But here's where it becomes a very slippery slope, and the veil is ever so thin, because then I might say, well, really, was I becoming more in the Hindu religion?

You know, it's kind of like if we were to talk about paganism, but so you do the physical practice of yoga, but then you're also hearing, well, I need to clear my mind, so I need to meditate. Well, our Bible, the true Bible of our God, Yahweh, does use the word meditation several times, but it's very specifically denoted and the word that it is to keep your mind on God's Word, and that is what meditation truly means.

Completely different from what yoga tells you to do for meditation. So that's where I was learning that false peace, and then you go into doing these mantras. Okay, well, that's okay. I can do that in a class.

Okay, well, that becomes okay, and oh, that yoga sutra that I was reading and learned about, well, that kind of helps me get some peace. So you can begin to see that, well, I had no, no, I'm not going to become a Hindu.

I was beginning the practice of doing all these things that is part of a Hindu religion. Does that make sense?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. And we have to go to our first commercial break right now. If you have a question of your own for Christine Schwan, you can submit it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you have people in your family who are involved in yoga, and you'd like to ask a question about that without identifying who you are, because you don't, at this point, want to unnecessarily offend them, or it might even be the church that you're in.

They might even have a so-called holy yoga class at some point during the week, or you may have a pastor who practices yoga with his wife or something. I have met and even interviewed Reformed Baptists on this program, and during Q &A with the audience, at least on one occasion, this Reformed Baptist brother in Christ said that he practices yoga, and he didn't find any problem with it at all, because he wasn't thinking about any spiritual and religious things outside of the Christian faith while he was doing this, and that's one of the things we're going to be talking about later.

But that kind of a thing, obviously, you'd want to remain anonymous, especially if you're going to be saying something about your church. But if it's a general question, give us your first name, at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back,.

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So please go to royaldiadem .com today, mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And I do have a question that is connected to something I was going to ask you anyway, and this would be a good time to bring up this question from Susan in Newville, Pennsylvania.

Susan says, I do stretches every single morning that are a part of yoga and I find nothing wrong with doing this at all because of the benefits that I know that I am receiving physically from these stretches.

They seem very anatomically and physically appropriate and even necessary for one to receive the necessary stretching that you would need to participate in before working out and possibly injuring yourself.

What do you have to say about this? Well, I hear that quite often. I think I would have to instantly ask her back a question. It depends on the stretches you're doing and the order in which you're doing.

For example, when I'm at the gym and I'm on my elliptical, I see people doing the same practice of going into cat-cow, going into child's pose, moving into another pose, and they follow a yoga sequence.

And is there something wrong in that? Absolutely. If I'm sitting in a chair and I'm rounding my back and moving my body, it's not the same thing. It's if you're sitting there in a straddle on the floor out of doing nothing connected with it, no, there's nothing wrong with doing that.

But if you're following a sequence that you know that you might have learned from or you get off the internet, you really got to be aware of that. Those sequences are actually a series of poses that are meant to be put together in order to get the body in a certain state or quote-unquote their energy to, again, it's part of the structure of the religion of the yoga practice.

So it depends. I mean, she's not in front of me. I can't see it. I can't ask her. But I will say if you structure those sequences together, you're doing yoga, period.

Now, when you say it depends, I'm assuming, and I could be wrong, that you would be opposed to her or anyone else purposely mimicking a pose that is a Hindu act of worship. It's a positioning of the body to worship a specific Hindu deity.

And even though the person is saying, I'm just doing it to limber myself, to make myself feel better, to prevent injury and exercise, I'm assuming that you would still be opposed to that specific mimicking of a Hindu posture.

I would say, again, without you giving me.

Poses or postures, absolutely. Do I stretch? Absolutely. Do I know my body? Yes. Do I ever connect what I know are poses from the practice of all the different types of yoga? I do not do that. No, sir, I will not do that.

Will I find another way to stretch my body if it's because I need to move my spine or I need to? It's like, yes, I'm going to do something different. This is where I challenge each individual who's listening.

Do you know your body? What is the purpose of what you need? Are you just copying what you've seen in yoga classes or on the internet? Do you actually know why you need to twist your spine? It sure as heck isn't for the chakras.

It's not that at all. There's physiological reasons, but again, people will argue with me. I welcome that. Can you stretch? Absolutely. The body was made to move as per God. Start going into the Bible.

If you want to get some, I want to say, you want to know about what you can or can't do, just start reading the Bible. God opened my eyes to what? Well, going to Genesis, we're created to move. We were created to tend.

I will say Adam, created to tend the garden. Does Adam do stand? No, he bends over. He picks up. He pulls. You move continually. You see the people of Israel moving. The Jewish people were moving, working.

They worked the land. I can go on about that, but no, if you know that that's part of a posture and you're not sure, don't do it. That's my best piece of advice. Don't do it. Do not do anything that are even connected together.

For certain on that one. Our listener, Susan in Newville, seems to be indicating that what she is doing is the only way to get a good stretch. She's acting, and I hope I'm not reading too much into your question, Susan, but what you are saying, Christine, is that it is not necessary to limber your body up and stretch appropriately by using a yoga pose.

There are just other ways of doing this. That's the way I get from you. Yes, short and sweet. Yes. I mean,.

Yes. If she thinks that she has to do that, that she's warming her body up, I say, yes, we all know the body needs to be warmed up. Go walk. Then what do you need to do? Well, I'm going to be doing this, so I know I need to get my shoulders and upper body ready.

I know I need to get my spine ready. I've been laying in bed. It depends. There are so many factors and variables, but when you say to me, no, I know I can do this because it helps me. Well, I'm telling you, if you're using yoga poses, you think it's okay, but it's not if you're a Christian.

If you're a Christian, it's not. If you're an unbeliever or pagan, it doesn't matter.

Just like the Scriptures forbid men kneeling before angels and other men in an act of adoration, these poses are acts of worship, whether you regard them that way or not, right?

Yes, referring to that. You know, I'm going to take a path. When people say they do yoga or they practice yoga, I would instantly say, well, where do you practice this? Where do you go do your yoga? Oh, I go to the studio.

Okay, but do you not notice the Buddhas and the different Hindu gods that are all over the walls? Do you not hear the words the instructor uses, namaste, and all these Sanskrit words? Do you not hear that?

You are literally, if you're a Christian, you are going into a pagan temple, and you are going in there to worship their gods, no matter if, in your mind, you think you're not. And if you're a solid Christian, you have got to understand that.

I mean, let's just look at what our God says, the Shema. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. There's only one true and living God. Are you walking into that studio? You're walking into a pagan temple that worships other gods, and God has commanded us, you shall love the Lord God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

And these words I command you today, and they shall be on your heart. And Satan, please hear me with all as much gentleness and kindness and love that I can say, Satan is a liar and a deceiver. He's come to kill, steal, and destroy.

And if you stay in that, those will happen. But he puts this very subtle veil, my best words to describe it, Chris, over our face, so that we still think we're being spiritual. I've shared that. That's what I thought.

They use the same words. They use the same phrases. And it makes me feel so good. And I go around saying, Oh, peace to you, and God bless you. And I'm thinking I'm being spiritual, but nowhere in there am I doing what God commanded me to go forth and, you know, preach the gospel to all nations.

Nowhere is that. I just want to say, you know, you go into the Bible book for that. And let me continue in Deuteronomy, you shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you, for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God.

Lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from the face of the earth. That should be enough to keep you out of a yoga studio, out of a church that has holy yoga. That's even more of an abomination to God, more of an abomination.

So is that something.

That is common, even that phrase? I think the first time I heard the phrase is when you said holy yoga. Ask me that again. Is that a common thing in evangelical churches for them to have.

A holy yoga class? You know, since I have been out of this, I don't know. I imagine that many of them do. It actually originated that the term holy yoga and the training originated here in the Phoenix area.

But let me read. Yes. So I'm going to say yes. So if you do the yoga within a church or their hall or wherever it is, you think you're not going into a pagan temple, if you will. And it's okay because we're only using God.

May I go further on this one? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. So I am on the holy yoga website. Some people may wonder if it's okay. I'm reading this quote unquote. Some people may wonder if it's okay for Christians to do yoga.

And we believe the answer is yes. There is a misconception that yoga is a religion. Well, that is not a misconception. This is me, Christine, talking. It is a religion. Go Google it. Go look. You'll see the word yoga and the Hindu religion.

But it's actually, I'm back to this website, a spiritual discipline. Now here's the deceit and here's the veil and the lie in parentheses, like meditation, prayer, fasting and worship. Do you see where the little hook is getting thrown out there to a Christian?

We believe there is only one God who exists for all eternity in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So we use yoga as a way to connect heart, soul, mind and strength with God. And holy yoga embraces just the essential elements of yoga.

Again, yoga means body, mind, spirit with God, breath, work, meditation and physical postures. And they go on to give them their Christ-centered yoga philosophy. And through your holy yoga, again, let me, I'm going to quote, unquote, through holy yoga, that's an oxymoron in and of itself.

You will learn and live a life's journey of inspiration, fellowship and spirituality. Now you tell me, Chris, does that sound like it's a lie and full of deceit? And it's ever so subtle because those words are.

Being used by a quote, unquote, Christian. Yeah. And it shows you that there are people who profess to be Christian who are not purely looking at yoga as a form of physical improvement. The very words of this person who wrote the content on the website is saying this is spiritual stuff.

That it's supposed to somehow, it's supposed to somehow enhance our relationship with Jesus Christ, even though not a word of this nonsense is in the Scripture.

That is exactly right. And it's taking you down a wrong path. And nowhere in there do you hear the gospel. You know, that's all we're commanded to do. But I read from you from Deuteronomy, and I'm going to, I'm going to read to you what I think is a very key verse.

I share this with everyone. It's what convicted literally the words the Holy Spirit used to convict me of my sin. And this is Deuteronomy 18, chapter 18, verses 9 through 14. If I may, when you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations.