#91 Dinosaurs, Humans, and the Biblical Timeline + Dr. Tim Clarey

Big claim that we're going to be discussing today, dinosaurs. Did they really live alongside humans?

Welcome back to the show, Dr. Tim Cleary. So dinosaurs, what is your hot take on that? People have so many questions about dinosaurs.

Looking back at the Bible now, is there like a word that we should look for in a dinosaur? Tannin or tannin, which is often translated as dragon in the

Bible, especially in the Old Testament. You can also see the Hebrew word behemoth and leviathan, which

I think might be referring to actual dinosaurs that were still alive after the flood. Do you think that dinosaurs are the pre -evolved chickens?

Why aren't more people talking about it? Why is it more hidden? Hi, it's

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Thank you so much for listening. Now let's get to the show. Hello, hello. Welcome to Biblically Speaking. I'm your host,

Cassian Blino. Big claim that we're going to be discussing today, dinosaurs. Did they really live alongside humans?

And the wonder here is if that is true, why is there no clear record of it in mainstream history?

And more importantly, does the Bible support this claim? Because in past episodes, we've discussed dinosaurs and humans kind of working alongside.

I mean, Dr. Robert Carter describes timelines, chronology, mega sequences of rocks.

Dr. Marcus Rocks explored fossil record and pre -flood habitats. And then Dr. Jeff Miller unpacked the global flood and why that matters theologically.

But today we're going to take that one step further with a repeat guest. Welcome back to the show, Dr. Tim Cleary, because we're going to be talking about the key question.

Where do dinosaurs actually fit in the biblical timeline? And does that hold up scientifically?

I feel like when I was discussing this topic way back when the podcast started, I was like, there's no way there's overlap.

It's something that Christians learn about in school, but then we never talk about in church. I'm so excited to talk to you.

And for those that have not seen the last episode I have with Dr. Tim Cleary, go back and listen. But for those that are new, stay.

This is, you know, you're more than qualified to talk about this. You hold a PhD in geology. You spent over a decade studying rock layers across six continents.

You've analyzed thousands of geological samples. You're the author of Carved in Stone. And you work with Institute for Creation Research.

Welcome to the show. Oh, it's a great pleasure to be here, Cassian. It's always a pleasure. Okay, so dinosaurs, what is your hot take on them?

Well, I think they're a wonderful way to introduce, you know, the Bible to a lot of young people. You know, everybody loves dinosaurs.

Everybody loves dinosaurs. And so how they all fit in. So even though people that are 80, 90 years old, they're still kids at heart.

And they still have this, you know, way back when at some point, everybody was fascinated by dinosaurs. So I think it's a good way to try to reach some of the younger kids in particular, but even some of the adults and explain to them how they all fit into biblical, you know, story, how they, you know, they worthy of the earth.

The people have so many questions about dinosaurs. And because they're told so many things by the conventional scientists and by conventional media, people are often very confused.

Absolutely. I mean, they just aren't addressed specifically. Of all the animals that are talked about in the

Bible, you just never hear of Moses or Abraham or Noah interacting with like a stegosaurus.

It just, it seems almost like there's mythical land of like the science world. And then there's like the

Bible land that seems completely separate from each other. Yeah. And I think a part of that is because dinosaurs weren't even, the word wasn't invented until 1841 by Sir Richard Owen.

And so we didn't know what a dinosaur was until well after King James Version came out in 1611.

It's over 200 years later before they actually coined the phrase, you know, word dinosaur. Wait a second.

So that's why you don't see the word dinosaur in the Bible. It's because there wasn't, that word wasn't there. It didn't exist.

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So looking back at the Bible now, is there like a word that we should look for where you see it and you're like, they're talking about a dinosaur.

Well, there's some Hebrew word, I think it's pronounced Tanin or Tanin, which is often translated as dragon in the

Bible made in several places, especially in the Old Testament. And then you can also see the

Hebrew word Behemoth and Leviathan, which I think might be referring to actual dinosaurs that were still alive after the flood that he was talking to Job and saying, look at these creatures

I made, you know, what are you? And I make these things. And this is some of the wonders that I've made, these wonderful creatures.

So I think some of these actually refer to dinosaurs, real dinosaurs that existed even after the flood for a while before they finally did go extinct.

I'm pretty sure they're extinct today. Okay. And I don't want to get too far off this topic because I have so many questions, but just to follow up on Leviathan and Behemoth, when

I, so again, like I talked to so many people, I spoke with Dr. John Walton and when he, so we did a whole thing on Job and it was a wonderful episode, but obviously we got to the

Behemoth and Leviathan and he said that was more, it was a Jewish literature element kind of representing like a mythical creature.

And like in that time, it was more story -based rather than an actual animal. Obviously you guys disagree on this.

Yeah, I think he's, I think the Lord was really referring to real animals. He was like, he's pointing at this animal that Job knew about.

Job knew this, you know, Behemoth, this big animal that appears to be something like a sauropod or a long neck dinosaur.

You read the description of it and you read through Job 40, you can really see the verbiage. And it even ate grass.

You know, for years, people didn't believe grass evolved. If you're an evolutionist, there was supposed to be no grass during the time of dinosaurs.

Even the latest Netflix show on dinosaurs, which is kind of slow, they don't show any grass.

And so they, you know, but there really is grass. They found grass in the dinosaur dung right with the sauropod bones back in 2005.

So they found five species of grass that these animals were eating. So they really were, you know, the Bible had the story right all along.

We just, you know, scoffed at it as a secular community. We're like, oh, that can't be. There was no grass at the time of dinosaurs, but there really was.

And so I think these were real features. You know, God talks about a lot of real animals. Even Job, but Jonah was swallowed by some sort of animal.

We don't know what it was. Maybe it was specially created just for that. We don't really know what the story was, but Jesus refers to that story as real history.

So it's these things I think, I don't think there's a reason to make them a myth. Just people don't want to believe that these are real.

People don't want to have their mind made up that dinosaurs didn't exist with humans. And if we accept the millions of years timeline, they weren't extinct millions of years ago.

And so they don't want to, you know, John Walton also, you know, I think he thinks the beginning of Genesis is just myth of history too.

And so it's, you know, he kind of, so they, you know, if you don't want to believe the biblical timeline, you have to come up with some other way to fit that time into the

Bible. And I think that's what he tries to do by saying, these are myths. And then obviously you can't have dinosaurs and humans.

So these must be a myth as well. Yeah, that's a fair, fair understanding. You read through it.

It's very descriptive about the teeth and Leviathan and things very, very descriptive. Will you bring up a good point with Jonah?

I mean, do you think that that was some sort, I mean, like what fish today could have swallowed him in three days? Like a whale?

Is that fair to say? Or do we have to think of a different species altogether? I mean, for all we know, it could have been a huge mosasaur.

We don't know what swallowed him up. But I think it obviously was miraculous there was some sort of miraculous preservation of him.

Yeah. And that to happen. But it was kind of a precursor to Christ dying for three days. And he was in the belly of the whale or the fish or whatever it was for three days.

I don't know if they've ever translated that correctly. But it's, you know, it's an interesting story.

Nonetheless, I don't think we'll ever know what that is. And until we get to heaven ourselves, we can ask. Okay, so let's jump into timeline and stuff.

But before we do, like what should we as Christians be aware of? Of like, we don't need to get, like, what advice would you give a

Christian who says, like, well, what's right? Either they were or they weren't. Do you as a scholar, as a believer, kind of say like, listen,

I don't know this 100%. But what I do know for sure is, what would you say? Well, for sure, dinosaurs are real.

I mean, there's some people that I've had in my classes. I taught at a public college for a while. And some people came in, they didn't believe dinosaurs were even real.

And so they are real. The bones are real. You know, it's one thing I was going to add. When he talks about the bones in the

Book of Job, describing the bones, how thick they were, you know, how solid they were. That's a very good description of a real animal.

I mean, why would you? Anyway, to me, they're real. And the question is, do they fit in, where do they fit in the

Bible? Because you don't see the word dinosaur in there. And that's the whole point of this conversation. I think they're the beasts of the earth.

Yeah. You read to the King James, it talks about God created the beasts of the earth. And he doesn't name, you know, camels and horses and all these other animals as well.

He just collectively calls them the beasts of the earth and they will reproduce after their kind. And so I think there's, you know, about 60 kinds of dinosaurs.

And you look at all the different dinosaurs found, there's, you know, over a thousand species named, but species and kind are, you know, very specific species.

And the kind is kind of a bigger group. Okay. Let's get, because yeah,

I've got a million questions. So for you, when, and you're a young earth creationist or an old earth creationist?

Young earth. Okay. Young earth. Definitely young earth. Institute of recreation research, we're all young earth. We're all pretty much committed to the biblical genealogy timeline of about 6 ,000 years old for the earth and the flood about 4 ,500 years ago, 4 ,400 years ago.

Perfect. I'm way more familiar with that as well. So when dinosaurs, when for you and like the timeline, when were dinosaurs created according to Genesis?

According to Genesis, all the land animals that walked, you know, the birds and fish created on day five, land animals and then

Adam and Eve were created on day six of creation week. So that would have been about 6 ,000 years ago. They would have been part of the beasts of the earth.

Again, they were created at that time. So anything that walked on the earth, essentially was created on day six.

Okay. And so that means that humans were created at the same time and they walked on the earth with these dinosaurs.

And that's why in the book of Job, I think he says, and look at behemoth, which I made along with you, referring to made the same day of the creation week.

It's so hard for me to visualize. I mean, the garden of Eden, you think of like, yeah, there's like ferns and birds and maybe like a lion or two, but like a

T -Rex? Yeah. Well, I don't know if there were, you know, the way I've worked out studying the continents of the world and the sediments and how they're buried and looking through these mega sequences and correlating them all over the world.

I actually finished the seventh continent, by the way, of Antarctica. We did do Antarctica where we can see what little bit of rock is around us.

So that's all in our database now. And so we have all seven continents done, but you know, there's only about a couple of percent of Antarctica that's visible.

Most of it's covered in ice. But as you look at all these areas, you can see places that were the lowlands were buried.

You know, there's shallow seas were buried first. And you can see the actual thickness of these early mega sequences fill certain areas like the

United States, the East Coast, the West Coast, and west of the Rockies. And then later you'll see this zone in the middle where it's kind of high and dry for a while.

And that's what I kind of refer to, kind of jokingly, as Dinosaur Peninsula, at least in the United States, across North America, where a lot of the dinosaurs,

I think, were living in a little bit above sea level in kind of a lowland area. Sorry, while you're talking about this, did you send me an image on this that I could pull up?

Well, I did. I did send you an image on that. Didn't I send that to you? Yeah, yeah. Which one is it?

And I'll pull it up. The Dinosaur Peninsula one, I think. Yeah, I have that. That one.

That kind of shows the area where the, this is based on the rocks. This is based on the actual data were from oil wells and stuff plotted all over the

United States and the columns. And it shows the areas that filled in first were, you know, was kind of went around that.

And so the blue area you see in that image, which I call the shelf, that area is just full of marine fossils, my home state of Michigan included.

It's all full of marine fossils. And you really don't have any dinosaurs found in those areas. And then that kind of that yellow area, that Dinosaur Peninsula, seems to be the lowland area, which was flooded next in the next couple of mega sequences.

And then finally they went over the top and the water kept going higher and higher and finally went over the top of Canada and stripped that right down to the crust and moved everything up there.

So I think most of the mammals and humans, and you know, you put Pangea back together into Pangea, you kind of combine a lot of these upland areas.

Gardavena is probably one of those upland areas. So I think God might have paraded the dinosaurs past Adam to name them.

But then they went back to their respective locations, which I think was separate from humans. But the upland areas were populated by mostly the common mammals, the horses, camels, humans, you know, sheep, all that kind of stuff.

And so you kind of have this tiered world that you're shown here. And so early on in the flood in just the first three sequences that it shows almost all marine things.

And this is greatly exaggerated in kind of a cartoon, but it shows a general idea so you go up higher and you get to these

Xeric and Zuni sequences. You wipe out all the dinosaurs. Those include the Jurassic, Cretaceous dinosaurs.

And this is happening all over the world, though. It's the same pattern all over the world at the same time. And so you're in different ecological zones as the water went higher and higher.

And that was pushed up by more seafloor. The more ocean crust you made at the bottom, the more it pushed up at the bottom of your bathtub coming up.

And as you made more and more and more, the water, the waves kept coming higher and higher and higher. So you see ultimately a progressive flood, which we talked about last time.

Well, that progressive flood resulted in a very systematic burial of all the fossils, starting with marine fossils.

And eventually you went to the coastal areas. You start getting coal seams from the plants. You start getting land animals mixed in.

All these things are happening all over the world at the same time. And eventually you wipe out the lowland areas, that kind of a dinosaur peninsula land from south to north.

And you finally get to the uplands. And the uplands, you strip everything off. Like God said, you wipe mankind off the earth.

You literally wiped them off the continents right down to the crust. Wow. So you're saying, so the way that they would live here is like pre -flood.

Dinosaurs live kind of in the Zuni zone, the Absaroka zone. So Adam and Eve would be more so in the uplands.

That's where the rocks were found in today. That's kind of the rocks they found. This is where you find the rocks today. So, you know, most of the common mammals and stuff are found in rocks on top of the dinosaurs because they weren't buried until after the dinosaurs were already kind of wiped out.

So we'll get into extinction later. But the reason for those extinction events is because you're going up these ecological zones.

You wipe out a whole ecological zone and suddenly all the plants and animals in that zone are gone. So it looks like a whole new type of animal suddenly show up all at once, fully formed, ready to go.

Every time you go up these ecological zones, you're getting wiped out whole ecosystems, plants and animals included.

And you go the next one, the next one, the next one. You know, it's the same general pattern on every continent. That's the amazing thing.

I guess my brain is going to say, like, if you're just a couple hundred feet of elevation away from a

T -Rex, wouldn't they have seen the humans? Adam, Eve, Kane and Abe, you know, all the kids have been like, there's food.

I'm going to climb up this mountain. Wouldn't there, like, what was that separation? That just, to me, it's a cliff.

I don't know if, you know, humans trying to build a bigger wall. I don't know. But I think a lot of the problem comes down to animals were created to eat certain plants.

You know, God talks about even the dinosaurs ate plants early. The original creation because the animal death was a shedding of blood.

You know, that was, that was death. There was no death early on, according to the Bible, until after Adam and Eve sinned.

And so early on, these animals were all given certain foods to eat. T -Rex had something that it used those teeth to eat.

You know, whether it was hard, crunchy, you know, had to crush its vegetation or whatever it was. But animals aren't going to sway too far from their food source.

If this is their food that God gave them to eat, they're going to stay near their food. So I think they stayed in those tiered areas because those are the plants that they wanted to eat.

So even today, they dissect alligators and they're finding that one third of their diet is still plants.

And so they're still eating plants to supplement. Because they were originally designed to do that. And so that surprised the biologists.

That was about 10 years ago. They did a study and they dissected them and they're eating all these plants. So what's the deal? But if you're designed to eat cycads, you're going to stay near the cycads.

If God gave you this plant to eat, a different plant to eat, you're going to stay near that. And so I think that kept these animals in their zones, even though they started eating each other.

There wasn't a lot of cross communication because you see a very orderly fossil record.

We don't really see big mammals anyway. We see beaver -like animals and squirrel -like animals in the dinosaurs.

We see birds in the dinosaurs. We see all these things mixed in together, but we don't see certain animals. We don't see mixed together at all.

You know, we don't see it. It's the fossil record. It really is very, there's a really good pattern to it.

And it's, I think it's based on ecological zones, but the animals stayed near their food sources. I think that's what kept them in that spot.

Why? You know, if this is your food, you're not going to leave and go somewhere else. But, okay. So are you saying then once Adam and Eve sinned, then they started eating each other?

I believe so. Because we have evidence in the fossils and the bones. We actually have, you know, teeth marks and bites.

Teeth, even identify a very distinctive T -Rex tooth that's broke off into a duck -billed dinosaur.

It healed. And so it was trying to bite it while it was alive, broke a piece of his tooth off and it healed. So we do have several examples where we have teeth, you know, bite marks in dinosaurs.

But actually in that case, they could tell it was a T -Rex. You know, it took a bite out of it, but it didn't die.

It got away. And so the bone kind of healed like a tree when you cut into it, it kind of heals over over the years.

So, right, right. And I guess, and again, these are like surface level questions. If Adam and Eve had already sinned at this point, dinosaurs are eating each other.

They're not just staying within this vegetation. Then by the time Noah's flood came and they had to take two of every kind, wasn't there a predatory risk on board?

Well, you know, people are going to argue that, but I think, you know, the Lord had to have some special miraculous provision.

He brought the animals to the ark. And so he brought all these animals. They had to somehow communicate to animals.

These two tyrannosaurs of some sort had to go to the ark. These two, again, it wasn't every species, but each kind.

And so there were two of every kind had to go. And they were probably juveniles. You know, it's likely they weren't the big 131 foot long sauropods that we find.

Animals might've been hundreds of years old. And there's been some recent research on that my colleague here at ICRJ, Jake Hebert's working on, looking at papers, recent papers have shown that some of these sauropods might not have matured until after a hundred years of age.

And so these big animals were big because they were living hundreds of year lives, just like humans were. Got it.

According to the Bible in the pre -flood world. But I think they lived in separate areas for the most part, you know, even though Adam might've named them all.

I think they went back to their locations where they were, you know, that was their food source. And so there was kind of a, it might've been a thousand feet or a couple of thousand feet difference, but it was completely different.

You know, you're not going to leave your food source. If this is your plants, even though you're occasionally chasing around, eat another animal.

You know, we don't know from looking at the bones exactly, what did the T -Rex eat? We do know it was taking some bites out of some animals.

We do see that, you know, evidence in the teeth, the bite marks, but it was probably still eating a lot of plants too.

And so I think most of these animals were designed to eat plants and they stayed near their food source because they always had that plant if they couldn't get anything else to eat.

Got it. It wasn't quite the world that they teach people. Right. But that's the pre -flood world.

In the post -flood world, I think one of the most memorable moments in my discussion with Dr. Marcus Ross was the habitat and vegetation required to support dinosaurs no longer existed.

We just flooded the world. The ecosystem has now changed and the food sources for these, arguably apex predators, is no more.

So that cripples their entire food chain. Would you agree? I want to take a minute and say thank you to the recording service that has made this podcast possible,

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Thank you so much. Now back to the show. Yeah, I agree with that because if you look at the plants that are found buried with the dinosaur bones, they're mostly non -flowering plants.

There's some flowering plants, Why does that matter? And that matters a lot because today the world is dominated by flowering plants.

And so you don't have these big cycads, you don't have these big areas with all these ferns and there's only certain environments where you have a lot of non -flowering plants available.

So if certain plants even seem to go extinct, like these lycopod trees, huge lycopod trees and all these things are massive trees you find in some of the early rocks in there, like Pennsylvania rocks, whatever they call them, part of that Absaroka megasequence or Absaroka megasequence, you start to see the first plants show up.

As coal seems, you get these plants that don't exist today. So there's a lot of plants apparently couldn't recover.

If they recovered, they're very small. Some of these lycopods are tiny little things today. And so the plants change dramatically and you're left with mostly the high -level plants.

And that maybe has to do with the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere that I think also changed during the flood, from the pre -flood to the post -flood and the amount of oxygen might have changed as well.

That might have caused some of the plants to not proliferate as well. So today the world is dominated really by flowering plants versus much of the pre -flood world, where it was where the dinosaurs were living anyway, dominated by non -flowering plants.

I think that they couldn't get access, kind of like taking away the food source for a panda bear.

And you take away the food source, they're going to die. And so I think over the thousands of years after the flood, it's long enough for Job to see a couple of these animals,

Leviathan, Behemoth and others. But we do see lots and lots of carvings and paintings and drawings of what appear to be dinosaurs.

But they're, of course, scoffed at by the secular community, scoffed at even by some Christians who don't want to believe dinosaurs and humans co -existed.

Yeah, you did send me a couple of images of that. Let's look at some of those. I sent a couple of those, I think two of them, but there's a whole lot more.

I'll figure this out. A friend named Vince Nelson wrote a whole book on these and went around the world and took pictures of many, many.

So this is that Mesopotamian cylinder that is rolled out. And you can see these long necked animals with intertwined necks and tails look just like a sauropod.

And again, this is thousands of years ago and it's in the Louvre today. But how did they know the legs came straight down?

You know, that was the big discovery of what a dinosaur was in 1841. It was a reptile that walked direct.

And so the legs came straight out. Every reptile today sprawls. Crocodiles legs come out, they're dragging their bellies.

You know, they're kind of walking along where dinosaurs, the legs came straight down. Is that the distinction there?

Is that they're a reptile? But that's what makes a dinosaur. There are reptiles. Versus like, this is clearly not a giraffe or a horse.

Correct. Well, horses and drafts walk direct too. But yeah, but these long necks and long tails, it looks like a sauropod dinosaur.

And this was dated to what year? Oh, I'm not sure the years. May have been like 2500

BC. This is really old. This is a pretty old. I have to go back and double check. I'm sorry, I don't remember.

This one's a little more recent. This one's I think the 11th or 12th century. This is from a column in a temple in Cambodia.

And above it and below it are real animals like a lion, a monkey, water buffalo. All these real animals.

Also, there's this one, which looks a lot like a stegosaur. And the legs are coming straight down again.

So many of these renditions of what many of us think are dinosaurs really do match.

I mean, how would they know the legs came straight down on these things? And so to me, you had all this circumstantial evidence of it.

It's fairly compelling. It's in Egyptian cultures. It goes back to some of the oldest carvings like the

Mesopotamian cylinder that really shows it. So to me, there's a lot more.

I just didn't want to overwhelm you with a lot of them. But there's that cylinder before you roll it out. And so the first time we talked about the

Mesopotamian cylinder. But to me, it's, you know, how did they know the legs came straight down? And we've got a whole wall here at the

Institute for Creation Research of a lot of these different paintings from all around the world. You know, the dragons, they talked about killing dragons.

I was just about to say, how are we skipping over the fact that these look like dragons? Is that? They do.

And many of them, that's, you know, that's what I believe, like St. George and the dragon, that's that legend is based on, you know,

St. George killing what was probably a dinosaur. They call them dragons. But, you know, a lot of the paintings and carvings and drawings will show the legs coming straight down, just like they're shown here.

And they didn't know that till 1841. So why would you draw them like that? And not like a crocodile, you know, like a big reptile today, all the legs come out to the body and down and they kind of drag their bellies and their tails.

Dinosaurs were very leggy animals because they had open holes in their hips. So like we have hip sockets where our hips goes into our hip socket.

It's not open. Dinosaurs had open holes. Almost all of them, I think, except for some of the ankylosaurs.

And so that's what makes them different than every other animal, including birds. Birds do not have open holes in their hip sockets, which is called, it's called an acetabulum.

But it's, you know, birds are either closed or partially closed, just like, you know, ours are closed. There's no, you can't look through our hips.

The femur fits in there. My question is, so I'm trying to like really map out a timeline in my head is that we have dinosaurs living alongside humans, but they live at a lower level of the lowlands.

And then the flood comes and there's two of every kind, but they're probably juvenile. But then after the flood, the earth has changed, their food source isn't as reliable.

But yet we still have artifacts of, you know, proof carvings, people living alongside the dinosaurs that they're seeing and carving into walls, like we see right here.

Like, I think the question I have is this couldn't have been for a long time because they eventually went extinct. So like, what is the time period that someone is living alongside a dinosaur enough that they carve it into their scrolls and their walls and their artifacts?

Could you just like place this on a timeline for me? Running my own podcast, I'm always moving too fast.

I'm finding guests, I'm editing episodes, I'm creating reels or guesting on other shows. Not to mention

I just live in a world that moves fast. Notifications, trends, endless to -do lists. You know what feels like a blessing in all that?

Slowing down. I'd love nothing more than a moment to pause, be present and choose something timeless.

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Take a breath, slow down, and dwell in the good things. Now, back to the show. Well, based on the ages of some of these carvings,

I mean, some of these go back, I mean, my colleague here, Dave Napier went over to Scotland and got some pictures of around Bishop Bell's tomb in the

United Kingdom. And that was done like 1490s or something like that. So somebody, you know, remembered enough to be able to draw, again, legs similar to this picture you have up.

The legs came straight down and had these intertwined necks and tails that looks just like a dinosaur. Even the curator of the place says people call these dragons.

So those creations come over here and say these are dinosaurs, but they're just dragons. I'm like, well, what is a dragon? You know, they're not just mythical, but they have the legs right.

In every case, they have the legs coming straight down. To me, that's compelling that they've seen something that walked differently than anything today.

There's nothing else that walks like this that has that long of a neck and that long of a tail than a dinosaur. And to me, the older they are,

I think you see more of them. Egyptians have the same, almost drawings, about 2 ,500 BC or something like that, maybe 2 ,500 years ago.

Do you think that dinosaurs in the pyramids were also coexisting? They were probably still around during the pyramids.

That was a very wet area. That was a wet area. You gotta remember, after the flood, there was an ice age as a consequence of the flood.

The water was warm. You had lots of rain, rain, rain. Even the Bible talks about when Lot and Abraham were deciding which land to take, the

God throws a little bit in the verse and he says, and Egypt was well watered at the time. And so in Genesis, he talks about, you know, everything was still well watered.

There was lots of rain coming down. Ice age was going on in the North, but everywhere else was well watered and probably a little cooler.

So you have mastodons and mammoths rolling around here in the United States, in Florida and Texas, and ice up in, you know,

Canada and Michigan and across the Midwest. But you had a much wetter climate in the Middle East.

So even during the time of Abraham and Job, you would have the ice age going on in the

North. And that's why Job does refer to ice and snow more than any other book in the Bible. So that was about 2000

BC, people kind of estimate. So you're looking at just a few hundred years after the flood and you're still kind of in the middle of the ice age going on, but you're not in the ice, you're just in the wetter.

The world was wet. There was no desert in Egypt. There's no desert in the Sahara. There were lakes out there.

Even the evolutionary scientists admit that during the ice age, there was lakes in the Sahara. There was rivers in the

Sahara. But we got to get the idea of this desert out of our heads. We think, you know, Moses and everybody went around the desert and it was always a desert.

It was well watered. And so probably the last 2000 years or so, 2 ,500 years, it really started drying out because the ocean finally cooled down and you don't have the evaporation.

So you would say around 4 ,000 years ago, 2 ,500 BC is when dinosaurs officially started being extinct, but that was also around the time of the pyramids?

Well, 2 ,500 BC would have been about the time of the flood. You know, you go back.

So some of these are dated at that, but I'm not sure if that's the right date. You know, they put the dates in. I might've misspoken earlier.

Maybe 2 ,500 years ago. I go back and double check some of the dates. But if you go back too far and then you get into the time of Moses, which is about maybe 1 ,300 years after the flood,

I think. Do you think Moses saw dinosaurs? I think he might've. There might've been dinosaurs roaming around even at the time.

But the problem was if things started to dry out, then they, you know, it was even tougher for them, I think, for them to survive.

So I think the long -term climate change. Yeah. First, I'm making it very cool. Right. Because I don't think dinosaurs were cold -blooded, contrary to maybe some of your guests on here.

There's no compelling evidence to make them warm -blooded. So the simplest solution is to keep them cold -blooded.

And even their nasal passages seem to indicate they were cold -blooded. They didn't have big nasal passages like mammals do.

They didn't have these turbinate bones to kind of warm the air. There's some things like that that, to me, indicate the dinosaurs were probably cold -blooded creatures.

And I think that's another reason why they went extinct. They had to stay in the warmer areas. Now, after the flood, they live in the same areas as humans.

And of course, if you have a kind of a big reptilian animal living in your neighborhood, living in a cave or somewhere nearby, you're going to want to destroy that predator because it's killing your sheep or it's killing your cattle or it's killing your children, even yourself.

And so a lot of these predators, humans took care of them. They're going out and killing them. So I think because they had to live in the same general areas, they were in competition.

These are perceived to be these big, ferocious animals, which they were. You read about Leviathan. He had these huge teeth, just vicious teeth coming down that could have...

When you look at it, I think Leviathan might have been like a Spinosaurus. Spent a lot of time in the water, cheered up the water with its big sail on its back, turned the water white, like the

Bible talks about. It had teeth coming out and tough skin that javelins and spears couldn't get into because dinosaur skin is really thick and tough, like crocodile skin, but even probably a little thicker.

Some of them had multiple layers of skin alternated with their collagen, back and forth to make it really, really tough.

Before we go to extinction, which I am so excited for, I'm going to ask a really important question is, do you think that dinosaurs are the pre -evolved chickens?

No, not at all. The Bible talks, it's pretty clear in Genesis that each animal will reproduce after its kind.

You can change... What exactly is a kind is a big question in the creation biology community.

Everybody knows that you can't... A chicken is typically different than a bird. The elbows or the wingspan, right?

Or the knee, you said something. Again, to me,

I've got a book coming out on this, hopefully this year, called If It Walks Like a Bird. As I mentioned, dinosaurs have open holes in their hips.

When they walk, they swim in their whole femur. This picture here, you can see the green one is the dinosaur.

The dinosaur is swinging its whole leg. And there's muscles attached, that little bump on the back of that green bone, kind of in the middle.

There's a little bump on the backside right there. That's called a fourth trochanter. And that attached muscles back to the tail.

And so when it walked, its tail would swing from side to side like they show in the Jurassic Park movies. Quite accurately, in that case.

And so their tail would go from side to side as they took each step. But it was pulling back the whole leg. So dinosaurs, two -legged dinosaur are balanced on its hip right there, like a teeter -totter.

So a T -Rex balances on its hip, going back and forth, the head on one end, the tail on the other. And if the arms are any bigger, they'd be too front heavy.

So the arms are just designed and engineered the right size for something. But they couldn't be any bigger.

But the whole thing balanced, and the femur was moving. Whereas birds, like these two, this is a micro -raptor and then a chicken, they're only walking from their knees down.

Green or their blue femur isn't moving. They're always kind of facing forward. And so they're only moving from the knees and ankles.

So the knees and ankles, knees and ankles, knees and ankles. That's why birds, their center of gravity is further forward as well.

They're not based on their hip. They're underneath the knee. So if you go to your local store and you pull apart your chicken, you'll see that there's no open hole where the femur fits into the hip socket.

There's actually little bumps to keep the femur from moving. So it doesn't have to move much. So you're only moving your knees and ankles out front.

So only the black part is moving on the birds. So when you look at the hips, you know, and this is what they always tell people that dance.

It's all in the hips. That's what tells the difference between a dinosaur and a bird. That's why they walk so differently.

Dinosaurs are moving their whole femur because they have muscles attached to the tail. And you look at the tail in a dinosaur, and I can give you a picture of these different muscles attachment.

You can see the dinosaurs have all these little bones coming down from their tail to attach the muscles too.

And so that muscle goes from the tail back to that femur, pulling it back. Birds, and even birds with bony tails, like Archaeopteryx and Microraptor, like the top picture here is

Microraptor. It doesn't have those shivering bones coming down. So you look down below, you get all those little bones coming out at an angle that attaches that kind of red muscle too.

So it attaches to that foot and pulls back. Whereas on the Microraptor, even if it has a bony tail, it's a very thin bony tail.

And there aren't muscle attachments to going way back. There's nothing pulling the femur back. So the femur is just sitting out there and it's pulling back the knee.

That's what it is. What is the animal on the top here? That's the Microraptor, which some people call it the dinosaur, but it's really a feathered bird because it doesn't have the hip, doesn't move its legs like a dinosaur, moves its legs like a bird.

So this would be the bird knee attached to the tail, whereas this would be more of a dinosaur attached to the hip.

And these are images that Joel Weinweber let me use from my book. So I want to give him a call.

He's at AIG, but he's let me use these. So it makes more sense that a bird is evolved from a raptor rather than a dinosaur.

Well, the raptors walk like dinosaurs. Raptors are, if you're looking at Velociraptor or all these things, they have the same tail with all those chevrons coming down on the back of the tail.

Below the vertebrae, you see all those bones coming down. That attaches the muscle to it. And that muscle goes to the hip again.

You can see the open hole in the hip like all dinosaurs have. Raptors are the same way. Does allosaurus or Tyrannosaurus rex or your

Velociraptors, they all use that fourth trochanter in the open hip. So they all have that bump on the femur that pulled the femur back.

So they're still balancing on their, like a T -Rex, they're balancing on their hip. Birds are balancing on the knees in front of the hip.

And so to me, it's pretty black and white, the difference between birds and dinosaurs. And there's a very few secular paleontologists.

One is Alan Produccia, who's a bird expert. He's a bird paleontologist. Yeah, he's written a couple of books and he says, these guys are all wrong.

These are not, Microraptor is not a dinosaur. It's a feathered bird. It's just got a weird thin bony tail, but it still has, it doesn't have open holes in its acetabulum, its hip socket.

Yeah, it doesn't swing its finger back and forth. It walks like today's modern birds. That's why it has a thin bony tail.

You don't catch muscles to walk with. So they walk completely differently. They're built completely differently.

God designed them and engineered them to walk differently. It's just that you have these birds like Archaeopteryx and Microraptor. They have these thin bony tails, but they're still walking like a bird.

And so to me, if it walks like a bird, it's a bird. You know, it's a test. You know, it walks like a bird, squawks like a bird.

You know, that's the old story. But people don't look at the hip structure. I would have never thought to look at the hip structure.

I was thinking more like the legs kind of look like chickens. So maybe they had feathers. But they're not, they're not moving their femur.

So chickens and birds today do not move their thigh bone. Their thigh bone's not moving. Dinosaurs, the thigh bones are moving, whether you're a four -legged or two -legged, and the tails help them pull that muscle back.

Okay. And so that's, it's a completely different way of walking and locomotion, which my colleagues out there in the creation community seem to not look at that.

They look at all the other things that the evolutionists look at. Part of the problems they do is cladistics, and they take all these different measurements all over, but they don't weight those measurements.

One of the most important things is how they walk, how the hips are arranged, whether they're using their femur or not.

That should be, you know, the most important thing. That really tells you what is a bird. But unfortunately, as we talked before the show, the evolutionary community has changed the definition of what's a dinosaur now, so it's now this huge envelope that includes birds.

So they can say, well, birds are dinosaurs, and dinosaurs are birds, but they haven't shown how they're the same. To me, it's all in the hips, and it's all how they walk.

That's one of the biggest differences. I also believe, of course, dinosaurs are most likely cold -blooded, and, you know, birds have air sacs and things.

They try to say dinosaurs had air sacs, but there's no proof of that. There's no, you know, they have some hollow bones in the theropods.

God designed them to be lighter and more nimble. They were very active. The histology, they cut the thin sections of dinosaur bones, and they say, oh, look, there's all these, you know, vascularization, lots of, it looks like a mammal bone in a lot of ways.

But they studied live reptiles today in the laboratory. They made them active. They had the same kind of bone.

So all they really showed, dinosaurs were active. In the pre -flood world, I believe it was

Jamaica everywhere. You know, the whole Pangea was Jamaica. And so you're looking at really warm climate. These dinosaurs, whether they're cold -blooded or not, they're always active, always moving, always ready to go.

And to me, that's what the bones show. They were active, cold -blooded animals.

And because of the nasal passages and other things, the amount of food you'd have to eat if you're a warm -blooded. The amount of food would just be tremendous.

You'd have to eat these brontosaurus and things. They'd have to eat all day long, 20 hours a day or more, probably just to get enough food on their diet.

Well, one thing that I do want to talk to you about is the extinction. How, what really caused the dinosaurs to go extinct?

And you did send me an image on the asteroid. So was it the asteroid? I mean, we kind of already talked about the flood and their food source running out, but tell me your theory on the asteroid first.

Well, the idea that's out there is the evolutionary community didn't have a good story of why they went extinct.

You know, we won't even get into this, but they don't have a good story of where they came from either. They don't know where dinosaurs came from, but that's another whole matter.

But they do think they've got this asteroid that caused, you know, the so -called Chicxulub site in the

Yucatan Peninsula. They hit the earth. You know, this big, huge asteroid is supposed to be about six miles wide.

The rock itself made about 120 mile wide crater. And, you know, this huge impact that sent up all this dust of iridium and this rare earth element all over the earth.

And it was a blanket of dust and killed everything. All the plants, you know, they show this pretty well. That new Netflix show that just came out on dinosaurs.

But what's it really based on? The reason they need this is they needed a story. They need a story to say how the dinosaurs suddenly disappeared in the rocks.

Well, they disappeared in the rocks because they were buried in their ecological zone and they're gone. But it doesn't mean they went extinct.

Just like, you know, we have living fossils today, like the coelacanth fish. Looks like it went extinct at the same time too, but it didn't.

And ammonites and other things. But wouldn't the rock structure just show their massive burial during the flood?

Or is it something else? Well, they just disappear, you know, at the top of the Cretaceous. Pretty much dinosaurs disappeared.

There's a few bones above that, but they're kind of like, they think they were reworked from erosion and moved around.

So what happened during the Cretaceous period? Well, that's when I believe you wiped out their whole ecosystem is gone.

Because of the flood. Because of the flood. Got it. Well, they're not really extinctions, but, you know, the

Evolutionary Committee says everything that changes has to be an extinction. So they go, there's been over 100 ideas put out there about why dinosaurs went extinct for many, many years.

But in 1979, we all were as in his dad, Walter, went out. No, he's the other way around.

Louis was the father. Walter was the son. They went out to Italy, sampled some rocks near the end of the

Cretaceous, the so -called K -T or K -P -G boundary. And they found a lot of iridium. And iridium is, you know, one thing is produced by asteroids to hit the earth.

But it's also produced by volcanoes. People forget that. There's a lot of volcanic activity. And so they did this and they said, well, there must have been an asteroid.

And they found it in other locations around the world at that same level. But since then, they've actually found it in many other levels as well, you know, below that.

And so it's not just that one level. And you can go to Montana. It's in one hill. It's not the next. It's the same boundary.

So it's not as universal as they say. But they use that then to say,

OK, maybe an asteroid hit. So then they've searched around the earth. And they came upon this gravity anomaly in the

Yucatan Peninsula that kind of looks like a circle. And it affects the rocks at about the right age, you know, the end of the Cretaceous.

Because that's what's at the surface there. They got some younger rocks at the top. But it seems to be about the right timing and about the right size for a big, huge impact of about a six -mile piece of rock hitting the earth, making that big crater.

But when you, I looked at this in my studies, looking at all these columns around the world. As part of my

North American study, I looked at the oil wells drilled into it. There's about eight or so wells drilled into it with actual cores. I've been looking for oil like in the 60s.

They drilled into these things in the 70s. All these cores have been studied and published. And you can see the results.

And so I have, when you look at that, there's, no, even before I get there, I looked at the surface.

There's no crater. There's no crater there. That's number one you got to get out of your head. So if you can show that gravity map, what they always show you is they show you this, that green map that kind of looks like a circle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that particular map is just, it's a gravity map. It's based on the density of rocks.

It's measuring the, what's below you, differences in density of rocks. So this is supposed to be the impact.

White there is the edge of the Yucatan Peninsula. Okay, so this is where people think the asteroid hit.

And this is the blow up of, this is the reason why they show this all the time, but they don't tell people this is a gravity map.

This is not the surface topography. There's no topography. There's no crater there. No crater.

I don't understand how gravity can just hit some parts of the earth stronger than others. Gravity does change a lot by the density of the rocks below it.

And so before this was called a impact site, this was a magma, you know, just intrusion from magma that came up in the middle.

And so you get a high gravity in the middle there, that kind of sticking up in the low gravity ring around it. A lot of times when you're measuring things in physics, you'll get up and downs.

If you get a big high, you're going to get surrounding low around it. And so you have a lot of magma that came up, maybe a little bit of igneous intrusion that came in.

We'll see some that might cause a little bit of a bump. You're going to get a corresponding low around it. So if you have a circular intrusion, you're going to get a circular anomaly kind of thing coming in.

And that's what you see here. But there's no evidence of this at the surface. And the wells that were drilled into this, if you look at the next picture that shows all those vertical lines, there we go.

These are the columns that I blew in, looked at. And if you look at, zoom out a little bit, the red is the melt, the melt rocks that melted.

This, I think, is just igneous intrusion. I'm sorry, could we use the soil profile from that asteroid site?

This is from there. This is the site. This is in the crater, supposedly. This is drilled into the Chicxulub impact site.

So this is, the blue is limestone, the yellow is sandstone. The red is melt, melted rock or igneous rock really is what it is.

So magma? Yeah, it would have been magma at one point and then solidified. And then you see one little, that's about nine, but a thousand feet thick in that particular well only.

And you go to the next well to the right, there's about maybe a hundred or so. There's a little bit of red way up there, right below the yellow.

I think there's a little bit of melt, just a little smidgen. And that's it. Where's all the melt?

When you have an impact that big, and they show this in the Netflix dinosaur video quite clearly in their last episode, this huge fireball is supposed to be a hundred, let's see, it was one billion nuclear bombs, the equivalent energy that should have melted a lot of rock.

And they even done models where the rock that hit kind of splattered out, moved several miles. Do all these amazing things.

You can drill into it. There's no melt there to speak of. There's no melted rock. There should have been about two to three miles of melted rock with an impact that big.

You look at the rocks here. It's the limestone, it's the salt. It's still all there. There's just a little bit of melt in that one well and a little bit, even a small amount in the next well.

And this is sand? It's kind of like, it's the old commercial Wendy's, you know, where's the beef?

Where's the melt? This is this big impact. Where's the melt? And there's, you know, and also those eight or so wells, they only found traces of iridium at the boundary in three of the wells.

So what, how come there's not iridium everywhere? This is the smoking gun, they call it. Where's the smoke? Right. So there's not nearly any melted rock from the heat of that impact that should have came in and just melted out and just destroyed the earth.

So the story that I thought that I was told that I would love for you to rewrite for me right now is there was, and you know, dinosaurs are on the earth, pre -humans, asteroid hits earth, dust cloud blacks out sun, earth goes cold, plants die, everything dies.

But, and even paleontologists, well, there was no impact. There was no, there was no asteroid impact.

There were some asteroids that hit during the flood. You see some asteroids. We see some craters like in Sweden and places. There were a few asteroids that hit for some reason, but this,

I don't think this was even an asteroid at all. I think this, if anything, was a tiny little, you know, a little asteroid because it didn't leave enough melted rock.

It should have, all that energy should have really cooked those rocks and caused a lot of melt, but you see hardly any melt at all. And there's hardly any iridium there.

So people said, well, it all blew away, Tim. I'm like, come on, you're close. This is the spot.

This, anyway, there's also other things there. There's shot quartz and there's, you know, these beads and things, but those are produced by the volcanoes in Indonesia.

So you go to Indonesia, you can see these same features, you know, even, so I did a whole paper on this. It's a long, long 10 ,000 word paper because I'd go through all these different things, but everything that's there at that site can be reproduced by volcanoes, which were peaking at that time in the flood.

So the iridium, the shot quartz, all these things can be produced by these explosive volcanoes like Mount St. Helens.

I don't believe there's even an impact there. If there was, it's very, very, very small because you got to show me where the melted rock is and show me the crater, first of all.

Because they show gravity maps all the time and act like this is what the surface looks like. And it's not like Beringer crater or Meteor crater in Arizona, where you can see a mile wide crater.

Yeah, that's an impact. This, I don't see the evidence for an impact at all. And there's other factors as well. But Bob Bacher, who's an old paleontologist, an old evolutionary paleontologist in the 80s and 90s, he said,

I don't agree with this at all because the frogs passed right through the boundary. You know, all these little frogs all over these little tropical swamps all over the world, we still see their fossils below the boundary and above the boundary.

That didn't even affect the frogs. So if it didn't kill the frogs, how would it kill the dinosaurs? And he asked that to the

Elvarez, the father, he asked the Louis Elvarez that. And here's Bob Bacher's quote, young man, he said,

I'm giving you the stars. You want to talk about frogs? I was like, he doesn't want to talk about the details. The details don't fit the story.

And so the lack of melt, the lack of crater, the lack of iridium, it didn't kill everything. Even the ammonites, now they realize, live beyond the boundary.

A paper just came out. I'm writing an article about to post on icr .org, probably in a few weeks.

It's supposed to go extinct at the KT, KPG boundary. They're now found above the boundary. So there's no magic to that boundary.

That was just a ecological zone on land that was buried. And animals were disappearing at different levels in the flood as the water went higher.

But to me, the evidence for the asteroid is very, very weak, especially that spot. Okay. Well, I have a nephew that I'm obsessed with because he's the best nephew in the world.

And my sister, I'm sure he'll hit the dinosaur phase. Right now he's in the car phase. But what is the story that she should tell her kids?

Because kids love dinosaurs. But they love asteroids, they love dinosaurs. But for Christian households that want to be sound and correct and in alignment, how would you tell a child how dinosaurs went extinct if you want to keep them biblically aligned?

I think they're in the Bible. I think you can make a pretty good case that Leviathan and Behemoth are probably dinosaurs.

I think they're real dinosaurs. You can also see that God talks about dragons in a few spots that are 10 in the

Bible, even flying dragons, which probably were pterodactyls. Some of these things probably survived for quite a while in the wet jungle type areas up until maybe just a few hundred years ago in some cases.

But as the world's climate changed, it got drier and drier after the ice age ended, and the desert started forming.

I think that really caused most of them to go extinct probably over maybe a thousand years ago.

Just a few hung on until maybe just a few hundred years ago, 500 years ago, maybe. It's really odd.

You get the one over in England, it's like 1490s or something. What dinosaur was alive a couple hundred years ago?

I don't know. It looks like sauropod, little sauropod type things. When you go around Europe, there's all these tapestries and paintings and carvings of all these reptiles that look like dinosaurs because their legs are coming straight down in many cases.

Sometimes not. Sometimes they look more like crocodiles, but in many cases, their legs are coming straight down, which

I think is the key component to say that most likely was a dinosaur. But because we don't have any pictures, and we don't have any written record where people are calling them dinosaurs because that word didn't even get invented yet, they kind of pooh -pooh the biblical descriptions of them.

And Marco Polo says he saw dragons when he went on his expedition. They supposedly saw dragons, and that was the

Middle Ages. And so there's all these reports of dragons and strange animals, reptilian -like animal with big teeth.

I think there's some sort of animal even that Alexander the Great ran into on his way to India. And so they were around longer than we think.

I think we're all taught that dinosaurs went extinct. But they didn't go extinct all at the same time.

Some of them hung on for a few thousand years. But ultimately the world's climate,

I think, and humans finally killed them off, I think finally the last ones because they were perceived as a danger to their animals and to their humans themselves.

I try to stay out of conspiracy land on this podcast. In my private conversations, I go crazy.

But since I have you, who benefits by keeping what you just said kind of secret?

What you're saying is groundbreaking. Why aren't more people talking about it? Why is it more hidden?

Well, it's because it goes against conventional science. Conventional science tells you these things went extinct 66 million years ago.

But there's scientific discoveries. Can't we just update the science and all be on board? I don't think you ever will.

Their mindset is already made up over the millions and millions of years. Of course, that's what we're finding in the dinosaur bones.

You probably talked about this to some of the other guests. There's all these original tissues and the dinosaur bones that we find even buried in the flood.

So the flood was 4 ,400 years ago or so. You dig through these bones, you crack open the bones, you dissolve away the bone like Mary Schweitzer did in 2005.

And since then, there's been 130 papers that are discovered in these secular publications that have found original proteins.

Blood vessels are still flexible. Hemoglobin, collagen, all these different things are still stretchy. You can stretch it and move it back like almost like a rubber band.

These are original proteins. They've tested them, tested, and tested. These are the real things. Now, just recently, they came up with, based on some of that collagen from a

T -Rex, they actually made a new $600 ,000 dinosaur or T -Rex leather, they call it, from the collagen proteins into a leather handbag for ladies to buy.

So you guys can have your new $600 ,000 T -Rex because they used those original preserved proteins.

Well, how did those proteins get preserved? They can't last that long. They can't last millions of years. So there's all this information that's telling us that these dinosaurs didn't go extinct millions of years ago.

Even the ones we find as fossils were buried just thousands of years ago in the global flood. After the flood, of course, you don't have the opportunity to make fossils.

You gotta bury things fast and deep to make a fossil. So animals that die today, like the dinosaurs that slowly went extinct over the thousands of years since the flood, they're not leaving fossils.

Their bones rot away. Any dead animal today, they get eaten by scavengers and then eventually even the bones dissolve away and get eaten by bacteria.

And so it basically turned to dust, just like humans do eventually. You know, dust to dust, like the

Bible says. And so you don't make fossils unless you're burying things fast and deep. You gotta be deep enough to kind of lock out the oxygen and preserve things fast enough.

Even some of the evolutionists are now admitting that these old stories were animals goes and dies and lays down and dies along the river and becomes a fossil.

That's just nonsense. Yeah, do you think we still make fossils today? There's no fossil being made unless there's a massive landslide, like in Mount St.

Helens, that one fellow that never left, Harry Truman, who never left and the big huge side of the mountain came down in 1980 and engulfed him with literally hundreds and hundreds of feet of debris.

He could become a fossil because he's buried fast and deep. But you gotta keep looking for him. But only in special circumstances would you have enough sediment to make a fossil today in very special situations.

The flood provided ample opportunity. Waves are coming in higher and higher, bringing in sediment, bringing in sediment as you push the water up from below from rapid plate movement.

And I think we talked about that last time, but that caused a progressive flood. And so what you see in the fossils is a progressive burial of different ecosystems as you go along.

But the amazing thing is it's the whole world at the same time because the sea level was the same. So if sea level is going higher and higher, you're gonna bury the same relative environment on every continent.

So the dinosaurs all show up and the Triassic, Jurassic, Cretaceous were actually labeled as those systems.

I don't like to call them periods because they're really just probably a week of the flood. The Jurassic was probably just a week. Cretaceous might've been another week.

And so you're just burying things in order. It's just, there's no time period you can go back in the history of the earth and say, oh, this was, all of these animals exist.

You're just looking at thin zone, ecological zone that was buried at the same time all over the world. And because things changed, evolutionary scientists say, this is a new period because you're now looking at a little different ecosystem, a little different ecosystem.

Then the big ecosystems became the big extinction events. So they made up a whole story. Really, it's just a record of the flood.

But the early geologists back in the 19th century decided we want to push the rise of Moses out of science.

So they had to come up with an alternative story. So they developed deep time. Those guys came up with the idea of millions of years.

So I challenge your listeners to try to imagine a million years. You cannot. You can imagine a thousand, 10 ,000, maybe a hundred thousand on a good day.

But you get to a million and it's all of a sudden, it becomes, it's hocus pocus. And so they went to millions.

And then of course they found ways with radioactive dating to try to justify those millions of years. But they're all based on assumptions too.

And that's another whole program we could do. None of those are verifiable. And when they do test known ages of lavas all over the world, the evolutionists have done this themselves.

They've tested in the 60s and 70s. And the creationists have done it too. They get numbers there in the millions when the stuff's only 500 years old or a thousand years old.

And they get millions of years. And so when you test things of what you know the ages and you get numbers that are way out of whack, why would you believe any of it?

And so, but unfortunately, they've got the microphone. So like you, Cassie, you've got the microphone. But they're the ones telling everybody, this is science, this is science, this is science.

Just like during COVID, this is science, follow the science. And so hopefully more people will question what they're claiming is science because the data, the rocks don't support it.

The rocks don't support an asteroid impact hit that site to give them the explanation for extinction. And the rocks don't support their evolution either.

They just show new things showing up in the order of barrel in the flood. They don't know where dinosaurs came from.

They don't know where life came from. And they always say, oh, there's water maybe in this planet or that planet could be life.

Just because you have water doesn't make life. And we've been trying to make life for how many centuries now? We've got lots of water.

It's not a simple process. It takes a designer, it takes an engineer, it takes God. It takes

Jesus to make life. And so it's amazing. It's an amazing thing, but people are so taught so many things from little kids.

I think the Christian people out there really need to reassess dinosaurs. They really need to realize that they were part of God's marvelous design and they were on the ark because God didn't exclude anything.

He didn't say, don't bring these. All the beasts of the earth were brought on the ark. He says on day 150, when the water reached its highest point, he says, everything, the beasts of the earth, everything was wiped out.

They had the breath of life in that. So that's when everything was dead, including all the humans, all the dinosaurs, everything was finally buried at that point in the flood.

And if you weren't on the ark, the fish and things in the deep ocean, they were doing just fine. But a lot of these shallow seas,

I think were across like North America, they had trilobites and all these weird, I think those environments were destroyed in the flood and they never recovered either.

And so a lot of those animals went extinct in the oceans because of the flood. But we have a lot of fish.

We have a lot of animals. We have a lot of plants today, but we're dominated mostly by the flowering plants.

And I think that was a detriment to the dinosaurs who are mostly eating the non -flowering plants. But they're eating grass, we know that.

So there's some flowering plants there. But I think the resources were limited after the flood. I think because they were cold -blooded,

I believe they were, their nasal passages weren't big enough and there's other things to support that.

Dr. Marcus Ross and I have argued about that for years. Yeah, I don't know, but there's no compelling reason to make them warm -blooded.

The reason evolutionists want to make them warm -blooded is they want to make them into birds. And so if you're going to make a bird, you've got to make it warm -blooded like a bird.

And you've got to have sprout feathers and these proto -feathers. And even those proto -feathers, little hair things coming off.

There have been studies, again, by Alan Froduscia. Most of the evolutionary community, they don't like him because he doesn't go along with their story.

He showed that these are just collagen fibers to be squished off the edge of the skin to make these what looks like hair coming off them.

And so they're not really any sort of proto -feathers at all. They're just collagen that was in the skin. I think that's the most -

I can hear the people screaming across the screen saying, what about this? What about this?

You know, so many questions. If people want to clarify, what is the best way for them to ask you, you know, follow -up questions on this?

Well, they can go to icr .org and they can go, there's a place where they can actually ask. There's, you know, there's a way to contact us.

And if they're persistent, because we have a gatekeeper who's pretty efficient at keeping us, you know, we don't want thousands of people emailing,

I never get anything done. But he'll pass it on, a good question. We also have resources in our books.

I have a book called Dinosaurs, Marvels of God's Design. This is published by Master Books. I don't know if I can get in there.

Amazing. Anyway, this is a pretty good book. It covers the five major groups of dinosaurs.

It talks a little bit about the - Yeah, we'll link it below. And some of the things, that's available at icr .org

or even Amazon. You can look up my name on that one. I talk about the Chicxulub site a little bit more in my

Carbon Stone book, which you mentioned earlier. But we've got lots of resources on dinosaurs. I've got children's books my wife and I wrote on dinosaurs.

I will link everything with ICR, the contact information, because I have a geologist friend who

I know when she hears this, Molly. I know that she'll have so many questions and that I want her to be able to, you know, you guys have a really great conversation.

But thank you so much for literally illuminating so many things I didn't know and rewriting history and aligning it with God's word and just adequately representing how humans did live alongside dinosaurs and the data to back it.

So you are such a valued guest on this show. Thank you so much for walking us through that. Well, thank you.

Remember, speaking of walking, it's all in the hips. That's how you tell a bird from a dinosaur. There's so many things about dinosaurs you could go down different, you know, paths and rabbit holes.

It's just a pleasure to get a chance to get some of that out there and tell people the truth, that God's word is true.

You know, I think these are real dinosaurs. They're not mythological. The first chapters of Genesis are not mythological.

God has done and what he still continues to do. But the most amazing thing of all is he died for us.

He took our place on the cross and we can get salvation through him, only through him. Dr. Tim Clary, thank you.