The Assembly: Consecrated - Sin and discipline (Part 2) — Tom Baker

Paul’s Judgment in Corinth and the Authority of the Assembly

Okay, 1st Corinthians in chapter 5. 1st Corinthians chapter 5 and we'll read verses 3 through 5. This is Paul speaking to the assembly there in Corinth or writing to them for I verily as absent in body but present in spirit have judged already as though I were Present concerning him that hath so done this deed in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When you're gathered together and my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Lord the Lord Jesus so we have here Two thoughts I have first of all the declaration of Paul.

He is telling them I'm not there. In fact, he was if you come to the last chapter of 1st Corinthians you'll find that he was in Ephesus and he was working on a great work that was going on there. So he's not there, but he tells them even though in my absence.

He said absent in body Present in spirit as though I were present. So he's he's already noticing what or knows what to be done and he is giving these Believers there and the elders at the Assembly of Corinth the guidance and what to do and he assesses the situation.

He says I have judged already. I think it's five times in this chapter. You have that word judge. In other words, it's a legal matter in a legal court and it is God's court and it is in God's assembly.

So this is something that is very important. We'll get into this I'm sure in a for a few minutes. Anyway, if you go to chapter 6, you'll have the same word over I think it's five or six times and in there it might have the word go to law go to law with but it's the idea of a legal court that is being exercised in the assembly at that place in Corinth and then do you think of the accountability of this individual that is guilty the Damage that that he has done who has done this deed.

It's the same word that you have in chapter 3 that our works will be Analyzed and will be put through the fire as it were and with only that which is done for Christ Will last the gold silver and the precious stone.

Here's a man. He's going to have his works Analyzed as well this deed that he has done and it's going to suffer loss and the awful tragedy behind all of that. But then we already have the authority of the assembly.

We've been hearing already about that. It's in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the power of the Lord Jesus and that name is the ultimate Authority for gathering and it's the ultimate authority for having to put somebody away.

It's God's supreme court. You might say and dealing with these matters, but there's one more Pat Barton and one of my brother mentioned this already but the attendance of the assembly who's going to be there.

The Assembly’s Gathering for Support, Prayer, and Discipline

I Personally don't believe brethren when you have it this phrase when you're gathered together. It is a separate assembly meeting. It is something that is not tacked on to the end of the breaking of bread meeting.

I think it's something that it's a place or a time when we as an assembly we gather together. First of all to show our support. For the elders who have made are by the Word of God have had to do this Awful thing of putting somebody away we support the brethren for doing this but not only that it's a time when we can all pray.

Wouldn't it be important to pray for this person who has fallen into this sin pray that God would restore them back to the assembly fellowship someday which would happen later on and Pray them pray to God that preserve us.

Preserve us because we are all made of the same flesh. Yes. We do have the Spirit of God within us and yes God has as get made as justified us through the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. All of that is ours.

But it's easy to fall away. But when we come together, it's an assembly meeting when this has to be done and I feel like the whole Assembly should be there in attendance to for what needs to be done here.

Delivering the Offender to Satan for Restoration

Then the destruction of flesh just a moment on that is delivered a person unto Satan now some will say that that's only the Apostle Paul who had that authority. But I do believe that God the Lord has given the authority to the assembly to do this.

And it's the assembly that puts this person away and God is using Even Satan to carry out his will in the life of this individual. Maybe more will be said on that but we'll open it now for those who would like to help us.

There may be a question.

Arising in the minds of some regarding Matthew 18 20 and If we are understanding that Scripture correctly, we are seeing Matthew 18 and 20 at the second stage of dealing with this sinning brother. Okay, does that weaken truth about the presence of the Lord in the midst of his people?

No, it doesn't. Because in 1st Corinthians here chapter 3. No you not that the assembly is The temple right now in the inner sanctuary the naos the Holy of Holies of God and That the Spirit of God dwelleth in you and if any man defile the temple of God Him will God defile or corrupt?

Right. That's right. So now we turn the page we come to chapter 5. Here's a man who has defiled the temple of God Needs to be dealt with very good and and the greater context of Corinthians for this cause many are weak Sickly and have died.

Bringing back to chapter 3. That's why I think what the Spirit of God has done. Look at verse number 2 Might be taken away. So that English phrase is the same Greek word in the very last verse therefore put away.

Now the difference between the two is this who's doing the action? The first one it's God doing the action discipline. That's the last one is the oversight the elders Moving with heaven behind them putting away so God will allow elders time To administer government in his house, but if we fail to do that He will step in so that's a very solemn lesson that you learn on the whole backdrop brother Tom.

Elders Acting Unitedly in Cases of Moral Sin

Just for the sake of elders that are present. When this unfortunate situation has to take place it is important that they gather together Unitedly all of them. Not one of them said I know situations more than one where they said well that brother won't come.

He's just not comfortable with these situations. None of us are that's right. More than that when it's your family.

You know. Yeah, sometimes sometimes a sin may come to light years later. That's right. You know say 25 years ago. It comes to light that this brother Sinned in this immoral way, right? Yeah, and there are those that would say well, you know.

He's repented already and and you know, he's obviously enjoyed the presence of God since then therefore we don't need to deal with it. That's right. But no, he has defiled the assembly. That's right. The assembly needs to be cleansed.

That's right, and they are to purge out that leaven. Right, right. Is that not why twice you have in verse 2 and verse 3 this deed? This deed so it's not looking at a continual Ongoing sin of fornication and all of a sudden man.

We got to do something about this. So so I must be very clear. Recently, there's an art a magazine article written Assuming that we can almost well as long as it's covered over. Brothers and sisters that's wrong.

One act of fornication one act of extortion. You go through it. God's house must be purged. It's not done with a bitter attitude. But it's done with a respect for the house that belongs to God and we have to follow His God because you you can't improve discipline in the Bible.

God has a method this country of yours and ours as well suffers from what they call progressive DA's. No longer an eye for an eye now, you know a hand for an hand. It's all about rehabilitation. But not at the expense where there's no shame.

There's no judgment for the sin. So we do have to get back to just what the Bible tells me.

Removing the Unlearned Seat and Addressing Hidden Sin

That we have let's be clear about it brothers and sisters. We have gathered companies where you and I would have once gone. That have removed the seat of the unlearned the backseat. That's right. Okay, and no longer carry this out.

That's right. And I know where he is referring to and I can name you several sad to say it's just not being dealt with.

It's not right. It was a situation. We had to deal with brother was meeting in another place. He did this. He went to the elders of this particular assembly confessed what he did. He said, okay. He sat back to Nick the following Lord's Day.

They went up to him and said we back here for. He said because what I've done. Oh, it's all forgiven. Come on up here. That has left that young man totally confused. Yes, even a years years later. He's just like why I thought that was supposed to be dealt then he comes like Dude was it dealt right with it's God happy with me now.

Has it been dealt with so he's been totally confused. Thank you for the under seat of the unlearned and who would you want to be there? And and that's that's where it's still there. Today it's not only for those who Have to learn about the assembly to be brought into the assembly where they can see that this is where God's house is and where I want to be but it's for those who have to put out of the assembly.

There is a place for them. I was thinking Tom of leprosy in the house. Yeah, it's not dealt with the whole house can come down. It's very important in here in this context. You have 11 in the house. That's it.

Yeah and and it's the whole house had to be an Exodus what 13 where they had the whole house to go and cleared out all the leaven that was there. Nothing could be left. Yeah, so purge out. Go ahead. There's something that interesting someone told me that my father didn't believe in.

And putting someone out of the fellowship. And I went to him when he said yeah, I believe it said You put them out from among you. They're already out of fellowship when they sent. It's not something so I'm not sure if I'm following you.

Well, it doesn't say put them out of the felt says put them out from among you. I see the other fellowship of God's and God's people when they send. I appreciate that comment, but perhaps for my own clarification.

They're out of fellowship or not out of the fellowship until the overseers take that step.

They're out of fellowship with heaven, right?

But then the assembly must I can put them out of the.

Assembly to following what has already been understood or accepted in the.

God that adds to the local and it's God that subtracts from the local and he does it just a question. It's kind of addressing a paradox here. So the statement was made earlier in this Bible reading that some situations I think we all are aware of some of them gone on for 25 years, whatever and it needs to be dealt with.

But some of the brethren also said at this time if we don't God will step in. Okay, and I guess I'm a little 25 years he's been going on in this and God hasn't stepped in so why. Possible just asking a question possibility.

I've never saved. Then I'm a child of God, but he's still linked with that testimony. You mean God stepping in an intervention? Yeah, right. Yeah, well God has already stepped in in the procedure. He's to be put out of the company, right?

That's what he's telling about a 25 year thing. Well, but yeah, I'm talking about but I'm saying, okay I just think I'm not saying he shouldn't be dealt with. I'm not saying I'm not saying that I'm just questioning.

We're so strong on that and we say that but yet there are some ways that have seen blessing.

They have seen you know, I just we're not living in apostolic times. Yeah, you know that. Things are more who departed and more lenient. I mean look at Ananias and Sapphira and right so on how God.

Prevention, Sexual Temptation, and the Scope of Fornication

We're too so. Just to give back maybe to the context of this. The first part of the chapter is dealing with this specific man that committed this specific deed now last part of the chapter. He's going to say now there.

These are the things you need to also address if they come up, right? But when when you're looking at this overall, there is still the opportunity if the person has not committed it yet. But you see that it could be possible.

They're lining this up to preempt that. So if we're close to the believers if we allow people to be close to us. You're too close with that lady at work, right? Oh, that's no you can't go there. That's what it leads to that's you're right right now.

I'm being absolutely clear that Young men need to watch out about spending time alone with young women. That's right because that leads to this.

And if we see use the older men these two, yeah.

But we've been talking about fully useful left anyway, we've been talking about the Internet. Like don't go away from here thinking. Oh, well pornography wouldn't fall under the word fornication. Yes, it would.

Child pornography. Yes, it would. Yeah, that's like there's there's so many unclean Wicked sensual sins that it's almost like people have the idea. Well, I could almost do everything with a woman but No, it's the whole thing starting out wrong.

This is the house of God.

Well, you would say that that that wickedness is wicked, but it's not the same as the physical connection of fornication. That's explained here.

One what we don't want it. We don't want to defile anybody but there's there's things that are being taught to our children today in school. That would make us literally Pull them out of school. Yes, because we are unaware of the sexual Freedom that is being pushed in this world today and it's just it's just wrong.

You know, I I agree absolutely wrong. But the the word that's used here and I go back to mr Crawford's book is a physical act.

Yes, and you could start to define so you got a chapter six. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. The person who's.

With reference. Oh, no, I just like clarification on that for everyone. Did did you say you also think it was a physical act?

Yes. Yes. Thank you. And I think that the physical act didn't happen like a falling off a cliff. I think as you said very well if you're in the office, you're too close to another person of the opposite sex.

Back off. Do it now. Yes, because it does that just leads you into the cliff and then it's too bad. Yes, brother Joe. I'm coming back to France. Frank's question about 25 years. I think we need to understand that at the beginning of any dispensation God acts in judgment more openly and more directly and it's a manner that is not seen toward the end.

Leviticus 4 and Sin Discovered Years Later

But in terms of the time factor how long ago a sin was committed. Go back to the sin offering in Leviticus 4. And you find that in relation the priest there's no mention of a sin coming to his knowledge.

But in the case of the leader and all the rest of the people. Yeah, if that sin comes to his knowledge, it may have been years ago. He still has to deal with it.

Distinguishing Railing from Evil Speaking

Brother back here that has a question here.

We Define the railer. Is it a one-time? explosion. I.

Think this the fornication is a one-time act. But I think the railer and those others the drunkenness of those other thing I think that has more of a continuation thing. It's it's more of a point where this person.

He's right as it has happened to us. But a person is railing and railing and railing and railing and you have to speak talk to him. You have to speak to him you be kind to him then you have to deal with them.

But it's if it's an ongoing thing. Then I believe that you have there. But brother Tom.

Could you just help us with. There would be a difference between evil speaking and Really? We could speak out of turn on and say things in the heat of the moment right. Actually commit a reeling act. But Characteristically right that person need not necessarily be on realer.

It'd be proper for that person to go and ask for forgiveness. I didn't mean to do that.

I was up whatever so the context of railing is always in the context of authority. Against authority right where evil speaking it. I'm attacking you as a person. Don't railing is the position you hold right?

So I think sometimes railing becomes the catch-all for I'm not too sure what to read him out for. Oh really? That That is so wrong. Can we not get it into our heads that we're dealing with God's business?

And there should be a level of very of respect and you know to follow the work. Another thing that needs to be identified brothers. I Know of a case Fornication has happened the elders encouraged them Withdraw yourself from assembly fellowship.

It's not mentioned publicly what has happened. Mm-hmm. That is a form of sweeping things under the rug. There is a reason the Bible says rebuke those that sin that all will fear. So when we when we short-circuit God's Ordered way of dealing with things.

Yes, it's going to be hard. That's why we need to pray for them. Pray for one another but it does honor God because it's just chosen. Let me go back to just your both your comments to about apostolic times yet in Acts 5 God directly removes Ananias and Sapphira.

He doesn't call upon the assembly to do it. He does it himself here. He which is pretty close. I mean, it's a few years later, but it's still apostolic times. God does not do that. And in fact the certain and this is not a fall off a cliff.

Like you said, this is something that is not only open they're bragging about it. And so I have wondered if that is part of the contributor to the situation that the assembly themselves was actually glorying in their life.

License to be able to do these things and so the state of the assembly itself actually Corresponded in some ways to the what was happening because they were both almost in agreement with it. This is good.

And yet Paul, I just think it's very significant that this is the case of like. This is the case of moral discipline that we're given and it's so bizarre in a sense. One should have his father's wife.

It's not so much as named among the Gentiles. I just think there's a lot of situations behind this that Paul is using to expose the very situation of the assembly. Yeah, and saying that as a whole this thing is Leaders.

But Professing apostles. Yeah, you know, they profess to be apostles and yeah. Some were likely teaching that the those that the Paul brings forward to represent them. You know some which could say I follow Paul.

He he's the one who has written Liberty and then Peter Apostle of the Gentiles he lays it on the line. No, no, no, we love a policy. He's more eloquent. So that's all fits into the whole thing. Doesn't it?

Corinthian Culture and the Assembly’s Moral Purity

The environment of Corinth is affecting the assembly. Yes. Yeah, this is kind of thing He might not have been mentioned among the Gentiles, but it was not uncommon. But nevertheless you and I are living in a Corinthian environment.

That's what has been brought out by her brother Brother Scott is the fact that the attitude of the old world around us toward these matters, especially sexually. Is infiltrating the assembly? It's undermining the principles of all which assemblies.

I would say that In a country and I was going to say let's turn to first Californian, okay. Because where I live and where you are here, this is what permeates our society. It's so acceptable and now that is so available.

It's out there for us if we want it, you don't have to go out looking for it. It's right there. But the point is is that Isn't it a miracle? As far as we know in Corinth and the way it was this is the only time Somebody was put out for this act.

I think that shows the grace of God the power of God's salvation. How is it that this whole audience here? We've been preserved. No credit to ourselves. It's God who has kept us and preserved us and maybe we have gone beyond what what we should have sometimes.

But God preserves his people and I think it's all credit and glory goes to God for this. I got one question then we got to move on can a brother who has Fallen into this sin ever be a leader in the assembly.

Restoration, Leadership, and Accountability

I personally don't think so, but no have to. Person is disciplined has approved themselves would take this man. You can't work with what you don't have.

And there are men that I know that if. Unfortunately, this has happened. They're in a very small company. There's nobody else there to lead. They do it in the fear of God. I know one case where a brother was questioned about he says, you know I've been waiting for somebody to take my place.

I really want out of it. So but there's one thing where I don't say. We're missing. I'm sure. Accountability. I need to be accountable to you in a point where you can meet vice versa where you can come say Hey Murray, just be careful there, you know at that point and I should be able to take that.

I mean I worked at a in a business. I got unsaved accountant come to me and say that gal out the front office got to go. I Said well, she's doing a good job. She's got to go or you'll be in trouble. Unsafe man and she went.

Yeah, I don't pick. I was so stupid picked up. I'm yet was married. Had one child at the time. But other times when brethren have come how good it is to be accountable. No, man, a law unto himself others that we can just be accountable.

Like I think I've got a relationship with with brethren that I think Nobody that he's the untouchable. They would come to me. Okay doesn't have to be an elder. Just somebody it's accountability.

Yeah, I think that could be your wife. Sure could and your wife see something that you're doing. Listen to her. Because she has your good in view if the elders come to you and see something that you're doing.

Listen to them. Because there have your good in view. Because it's an awful thing To be delivered the hands of Satan. That's what's happening here. And we don't we're not even have time to talk about it.

Restoration After Discipline in 2 Corinthians

But thankfully this person who was delivered into the hands of Satan for the destruction of the flesh. And all that that meant in Chapter and the 2nd Corinthians we find that that person is restored again.

And he says that lest he be over come because it was like in the hand for too long of Satan. That's it and now the man's Repentant and he needs to be Restored back to the assembly because Satan has already done his work and I want to say this real quickly in the Old Testament We've been reading Jeremiah my wife and I have and you find there that God is going to use the Chaldeans to discipline the Jewish the Jerusalem and Judea for their sin and the Chaldeans were the most evil of all and yet here He's going to use Satan to do the same thing.

So it sounds like look like you have some respect to your question about an elder being restored to his function. Wouldn't a lot of it depend on whether he is truly restored to the confidence of the assembly.

Yeah, I'm able to regain the respect to the believers. I think that was right. I'm sorry. Did you not finish? No. No, I agree with you on that because I know kids situations where someone has done this and then.

And they've been disciplined disciplined properly. They accepted it as a discipline they wanted the discipline because they knew they weren't right for God and now. Their trend is gospel preachers. People looking up to them and God is using them.

I didn't think the question was a.

Leader that had said being restored to that position. I thought. The question was you know, could someone that had fallen this be a leader? Yeah, that's what the original question.

Yeah, which is a difference. Yes, there is a difference and that's good. That is a big difference. There is moral defilement.

Yeah. Go ahead. There is moral defilement that needs to be dealt with by the assembly and then there's the question of doctrinal.

Moral and Doctrinal Defilement

Defilement. Just we're going there now, thank you. Let's read it. Oh, okay. Go ahead. We got ten minutes got blue light.

Miriam is an example that I've always seen in the fact that she she was leprosy speaks of death and she Had repented and Moses had prayed for her. But it was still required that she spent seven days outside the camp.

And they can't did not move until she was restored was good. The whole putting out is for restoration. Okay.

You got the poor brother.

When somebody's sin has happened 25 years ago or 10 years ago, and you did it wasn't known they confessed they came forward. Nobody would have ever known if they hadn't come forward. They still need to be put out of the assembly.

Yes, but In the case of a young person how long. And What do we expect. Do we expect the young person to know I need to be out of fellowship for two two weeks? Years. I Think it would be incumbent if obviously they're repentant because they confess something that nobody would have ever found out about.

But I'll tell you what happened here. We asked the person after two weeks if they'd like to be back in fellowship and they sat back during that time period and They they obviously wanted to and we announced them the next week and they were received the next week.

So it doesn't have to be a long period of time. And and we need to understand how much they understand and we can be the ones that initiate that.

That goes back to leadership doesn't it each we need to know. The sheep we understand their needs and and I think that it's important that every assembly we're taught we have autonomy of assemblies and every assembly has a body of elders and When they come to the point where they realize this person Needs to be restored and and I and it's I hope trust that worked out good for the assembly and and that the person still.

Is going on a time to vote. We got a question here for the gym. Okay.

Limiting Participation During Assembly Discipline

Well That's internal discipline that could be Applied to a person and depends on what the situation is. And again, I think that's up to the elders in the assembly. But yes, I do believe that we can Stop the the mouth of Titus.

It talks about stopping the mouth of those who are Defiling the the assembly through whatever they're saying and I believe yes, I hope that they're teaching or They're pregnant can't pray.

That's if they silence me. Can I pray?

How about worship worship? Well, that would depend if they're gonna turn their prayer into a little mini preach to get back at the elder.

You're prejudging the situation. Yeah, right. No, I I just don't sit you. So something around a while and we've been seen situations like this. I know a brother and he had been put on accepted. What it was and it wasn't I don't say I think we're talking about railing or whatever.

He was out. Okay, they're all at a conference. There's three or four left. He prayed. When he got home, he got beat up. Okay, I'm gonna say I mean the poor guy. He's back in now, but I thought come on.

I don't think you can silence a man's worship. Okay I don't know a brother. Jim back here. It's that plenty of experience. Thanks, but you could there's teaching. Yes.

But did you and we're not even going down the line because we're just broadening out too far. Let's just leave. Let's go on to the next one first Timothy chapter 1 first Timothy 1 and verses 18 and 20 through 20.

Delivering Hymenaeus and Alexander to Satan

This charge I commit unto thee son Timothy According to the prophecies which went before on thee that thou. By them Midas wore a good warfare. This is 1st Timothy chapter 1 and verse now 19 Holding faith and a good conscience.

Which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck of whom is Hananias and Alexandra whom I have delivered unto Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme here. We have again someone being delivered unto Satan and it's with a purpose that they might learn.

There's something that they've been doing and I wondered just real quick. Were these two men? With the Apostle Paul when he called them out from Ephesus to Miletus. Miletus right and they met together and he said to the group of elders that time he said there'll be among you those who will rise up and Try to get a following of people among the assembly.

Were these two men there did Paul look at them in the eye when he Mentioned that and said that I don't know but the point is this they have made shipwreck. Why because of not holding faith and a good conscience?

It's interesting. We have here twice the word good. It's it's a and in verse number 18 a good warfare and in chapter in Ephesians and chapter 6 We have the equipment for the warfare and here we have the engagement of the warfare and now it's not immorality, but it's it's Doctrine that is being taught and as you go through first Timothy and second Timothy.

You're going to find that over and over again. There are those who are attacking the sound doctrine of God's Word the healthy Doctrine of God's Word and he says I want you to fight the warfare against that do not allow this doctrine to Lose its effect upon the assembly because that's what holds the assembly together.

How do we function if we don't have the doctrine in the way that it should be it sound healthy? Doctrine for the assembly and it's an interesting here that you have good and then you have evil. Go to Genesis chapter 1.

I think it's what a seven times Good good good as God goes through his creation. He looks at it's good go to Genesis chapter 2 a Tree the knowledge of good and evil two things side by side. Where'd it come from?

Well, we know the source but here we have good and we have evil that is being dealt with now brethren. We have about I hate to say it four minutes to deal with all this and we have another passage to deal with too.

But just real quick if you have anything to say.

Delivering unto Satan. I know you didn't discuss it, but since it's linked with both I think that is simply the idea of delivered outside the assembly and discipline right that realm of what we I was saying earlier the Within and without so that everything that is outside is under the domain of Satan.

That's why that's why Paul says do not you judge that it was within so that's the administration point of God. Everything outside is under the domain of Satan. So it's not anything. I don't believe anything Supernaturally apostolic.

It's simply they were delivered outside.

And that's so important because we are social people and we need one another. And I know of a situation right now where the person has told me what I miss the most is being able to be in Fellowship with the brother who the Lord's people to be there to associate with them and it hurts.

So I think that's part of the discipline though. It's they had to feel the pain for what they have done and then only that outside of the fellowship of the brethren. But outside of the protection there there's there is in the assemblies.

Yeah, that's what I appreciate.

Adam. When he had to be put he was driven over the garden. Yes hated to leave it. What's the hardest thing you ever did? Yeah, but what he's out there. What protection have you got?

And their response to that would be indicative if they're a child of God. Like you said that woman longed for that fellowship that the spirit. Okay you know you said that as far as That the spirit may be saved in the day the Lord Jesus in other words that they would be part of that company.

They might not be part of this company now, but their response and longing they'll be part of that company. So Frank just to make sure not outside the building. No, because the church is not the building and people find this heart the seat of the unlearned is in the domain of Satan.