December 17, 2025 Show with Allen S. Nelson, IV. on “The Gospel According to Christmas: Celebrating the Incarnation Without Losing the Plot”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday.

And today, I'm losing track of my memory as far as what date it is, so perhaps my guests can remind me of what date it is.

What's today's date, Alan? The 17th. The 17th. Sorry that I lost track of the date because I just got off the phone with the wife of a dear friend of mine who passed away, and I'm deeply saddened by this news for those of you who haven't heard it already.

One of my favorite guests to interview on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and his name should not be unfamiliar to people who listen to this program regularly, but his name is

Roger Salter, a Reformed Anglican minister who was the rector at St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama. He was originally from Tasmania, Australia, and was educated in London, England, and was called eventually to minister in Birmingham here in the

States. I interviewed Roger many times, and I have been told by his wife,

Maureen, and three of his adult children that being on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio was a highlight of his life.

They told me how much he would get so excited to be a guest on this program, and he went home to the

Lord, God, Savior, King, and Friend that he served for so long, so well.

On December 13th of this year, he was 80, and the

Lord's taking him was truly an act of mercy because Roger had been quite ill, and it was becoming more and more difficult and arduous and uncomfortable and painful for him to even breathe.

And then finally, he just peacefully began to cease breathing and went home to be with Jesus, and the funeral will be live -streamed on Friday from Birmingham, Alabama, and I will give you all updates on that on tomorrow's broadcast, how you can view that if you so choose to do so.

I highly recommend after this live program, of course, that you go to the archive of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, ironsharpensironradio .com,

and type in Roger Salter, and he spells his name S -A -L -T -E -R, not the

Salter that we have in many churches, which is the

Book of Psalms put to music, but this is

S -A -L -T -E -R, and you can be blessed by all the times that I have interviewed

Roger. And in fact, on the current website, it does not even feature all of his interviews because I began interviewing

Roger way back when we started broadcasting this program out of Long Island, New York on WNYG Radio, and my webmaster, because of the monumental task it would involve, has not yet archived all of those recordings.

So many of those recordings with Roger have not yet been even archived yet on the new and current website, but I just want to let everyone know who has been sending me wonderful words of praise for Roger, that it means the world to the

Salter family. They have been reading these messages that you have written and posted in social media, and it has been a blessing to them during this difficult time of grief and mourning.

So I appreciate you praying for the Salter family, and Roger is survived by his wife

Maureen and his son Alex and his daughters

Helen and Melanie, and I've had the privilege of meeting all of them and spending time with them and having fellowship over meals with them, and I hope to get that opportunity again in the near future, obviously without, unfortunately,

Roger's presence, but that reunion will certainly come eventually when we are all in glory together.

But today I am very pleased to have a first -time guest and very fitting for the

Christmas season. Today's guest has written a book that should get us all mentally and spiritually prepared to celebrate the birth of our

Savior in spirit and truth. Today's guest is

Alan S. Nelson IV. Did I say Alice? I think

I heard Alan. Oh, Alan S. Nelson IV, a pastor at Providence Baptist Church of Perryville, Arkansas, and we're going to be addressing his book,

The Gospel According to Christmas, celebrating the incarnation without losing the plot.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Alan Nelson.

Yes, sir. It's quite the honor to be welcomed. Brother, I'm grateful for your show.

I've been able to listen a few times, and I've also seen you at various conferences, and so I'm grateful and humbled to be one of the many guests that you've had.

Yes, well, I am honored with the privilege of having you, and tell our listeners something about Providence Baptist Church in Perryville, Arkansas.

Yes, thank you. We are in central Arkansas. We're in the town of Perryville.

I joke, if you don't know where that's at, we're just on the outskirts of Toad Suck. Toad Suck?

Toad Suck, yes, sir. That's a little community just east of us.

Now, I'm hesitant to ask you how that town got that name, but I've heard that there are some toads, and I don't know this from personal experience, but I heard that there are some toads that if you suck them, it has a hallucinogenic effect on one's mind.

I don't know if that has anything to do with the people who named that town such a bizarre name.

You can ask Dr. White about the Toad Suck. He's been through before.

Does he know the origins of that name? I don't think he does, or maybe. I'm not sure if he's researching, but what

I gather from the research I've had and just grown up here, basically, it was a landing spot for people traveling the

Arkansas River, and there was a tavern there or something, and basically, they said, those guys are getting sucking on whiskey like a bunch of toads or something like that, basically.

Yeah, that's how I got the name. But it's a real place. We're a

Reformed Baptist Church. We confess the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession. We have a plurality of elders, myself and another brother.

We have 42 members, and we take membership seriously.

I've been here 10 years. We were previously a Southern Baptist Church, and just over the years, we've

Reformed according to the Scriptures, and God's been very, very good to us. So, yeah, that's a little bit about our church there.

And if anybody would like to find out more about Providence Baptist Church there in Perryville, Arkansas, you can go to their website, especially if you happen to live in that area or you have family, friends, or loved ones who live in that area, or if you know you're going to be passing through that area on vacation or for some other reason and you need a solid place to worship on the

Lord's Day, go to ProvidenceBaptistAR .com, ProvidenceBaptistAR, for Arkansas, dot com, and God willing, we will repeat that information toward the end of the program.

Before we get into the topic at hand for us today, the

Gospel According to Christmas, I would love for you, as we have a tradition to do here,

I would love for you to give us a summary of your salvation testimony, since this is your very first interview on RNZ Radio, and that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised, and the kinds of providential circumstances the

Sovereign Lord rose up in your life that drew you to Himself and saved you. So, let's hear a summary of your story.

Yeah, I tell people that I grew up in a moral home, wasn't a

Christian home. My dad one time said, well, of course we're Christians, we're not Muslims, and so that was the kind of mentality.

To fast forward real quick, my dad is a believer, my mom and dad are believers now, and they are actually members now of the church.

So, the church I'm at, I grew up in, I graduated from high school here in Perryville.

I didn't grow up in this church, so I'm back in my hometown, so that gives a little bit of context, and my parents are members of our church now, and so very grateful.

But growing up, it wasn't that way. It wasn't a bad raising. It wasn't, you know,

I mean, it was a good home, but it was not a Christian home. And so, when

I was 10 years old, I was at a church camp in Solemn Springs, Arkansas, and I don't know if I'd heard the gospel before, but I heard it then, and it was clear to me that if I were to die,

I was not going to go to heaven, and I needed Jesus, and there are some things

I'm sure I couldn't articulate well as a 10 -year -old, but that's the time I believe I turned from my sins and put my faith in Christ, by God's grace, of course.

But it was over the next few years, I really didn't understand church membership. My parents really didn't take me to church.

Maybe every now and then, my mom would take me. And so, when I was 15, we had a very good youth pastor at a

Southern Baptist church in town, and he discipled me, talked to me. I understood, wait,

I need to join the church. I need to be baptized. It's not just about confessing faith in Christ.

There's more to Christianity than just saying that you believe in Jesus. So, I believe

I was converted at 10, but I followed the Lord and believed His baptism when I was 15, joined the church, and that's it.

In a nutshell, over the next few years, I grew my understanding of what the

Christian life is. I wound up being surrendered to ministry in 2006.

Anyway, that probably gets more than you wanted, but that's the basics in a nutshell.

Now, how did you come to discover and eventually embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace, aka

Reformed theology, aka Calvinism? In 2006,

I surrendered—well, it's kind of a phrase we say around here, surrender to the ministry.

In 2006, I realized that I really believed God was calling me into the ministry.

A couple years later, I graduated college and I decided to go to the

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville. But prior to going there, I'd had a few conversations about the doctrine of grace,

Calvinism, and I laughed at it. I'm like, what kind of people could believe this?

Really, some of the main teaching I got about Calvinism was in the public school when we were studying the

Puritans. But it was in a very negative light, these people.

And so I was like, whatever. Well, I went to Southern. I was looking at Southern and Southwestern, and brother, this just gives you

God's kind providence to me, because I was looking at these two because they're the closest in proximity to where I live.

Southwestern in Fort Worth is closer. But it was a church in the

Louisville area that contacted me about being a youth pastor. I'd sent out my resume to some places.

And so my wife and I took that as the Lord's leading, we're going to go to Southern and we're not going to go to Southwestern.

When I got to Southern, at that point, there was a lot of talk about Calvinism, Reformed theology.

So I began studying and wrestling. And of all the places, it was actually in Don Whitney's class on spiritual disciplines.

And he gave us this statement. He said, Jesus said, man shall not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

How are you men going to minister the people of God if you haven't read every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God?

And that convicted me because I was reading my Bible, but I'd never taken the Bible and said, OK, I'm going to make sure

I've read the entire book, you know, cover to cover. I repented of that, started doing it.

And as I was doing that, I was wrestling with, well, here's this seems like free will here.

No way. This is the sovereignty of God here. And it was really reading the entire scriptures that I said,

OK, I surrender. This is God is absolutely sovereign. And so that was in that was in the fall of 08 that that began to take shape.

Praise God for that. How did you become convinced that the Lord had put a call to pastoral ministry upon your life?

Well, this was prior to I to going to seminary. And I wouldn't do this.

And I don't think it's a good idea to do. But I'm very grateful my pastor did do this.

And that is one Saturday we had done a work day as a church. And one

Saturday I told him that I wanted to preach. I felt like I could preach. And so he said,

OK, you can preach tomorrow. And but by God's kindness, I preached the next day and the

Lord was good and the church encouraged me. And so I began at that point.

That was in 06 that I began to say, OK, I think the Lord is calling me to be a preacher.

And it took a little bit longer for me to say, OK, that means pastor, because I've changed my position on this now.

But back in those days, I was like, I'm going to be a youth pastor and that kind of thing. But it was really a combination between a desire to preach and then the

God uses his people. And so the local churches that I was part of seeing that in me, encouraged me in that and saying, we believe that you're called to this.

And so that all kind of coalesced really probably in by the fall of fall of 09, as I really began to say,

OK, I'm called to be a pastor. Now, praise God. Well, you have written a book on a very timely subject, because as everyone knows who's listening live, the

Christmas season is here and we will be rapidly arriving on Christmas Day next week, actually.

And can you tell us what were the catalysts that placed a burden on your heart to write this book?

And who is your primary targeted reader? Is it the unbeliever or is it the believer?

Now, even believers, it's very wise for believers to hear repeated over and over again, truths that they may already know in their minds, but they need to be reminded of these truths.

I can even remember my friend, the late Peter Jeffrey, wrote a book years ago called

Christians Need the Gospel Too. But tell us about who you intended this book for.

Yeah, thank you, brother. So, you know, growing up, I've given a little bit of background, but not really a

Christian home, but a moral home. But Christmas was a big deal, and it really wasn't like there would be nativity scenes and there would be, you know, maybe mentions of the

Lord Jesus, but it was more about presents and family and cookies and Santa Claus and all that kind of stuff.

But it was a precious part of my childhood. I loved it. I still love, I'm grateful for those memories.

Then I became a Christian. Then I grew in my understanding of, you know, what this is about.

Then I entered into the Reformed world, and I realized there's lots of different positions on the celebration of holidays and such.

But I began to understand, I mean, a number of years ago, that I think it's right and good.

Maybe we can talk about this later. Who knows? Maybe it'll be a question. But I think it's right and good to celebrate the incarnation.

But I want us to understand why we celebrate the incarnation. I had a friend, now this came back after the book was already out, so this did not give me the desire to write the book.

But it does give the kind of mindset I had. I had a friend that was on sabbatical. He's an older pastor friend.

He was on sabbatical in October of this year, and he went to a church, and the church, the man there preached on Micah, the book of Micah.

Now, maybe my friend was being a little hyperbolic. I'm not sure. But I think he was being quite frank about it.

He said in the whole service, he can't remember the name of Jesus being preached or being said one time.

I know that maybe some of your listeners might find that unbelievable, but I live in the

Bible belt, and sadly, that's not unbelievable to me at all, that you could have a service and the name

Jesus might rarely be mentioned. So the whole point of the incarnation is not the crux of the gospel.

The crux of the gospel is literally the cross. But it is the very heart of the gospel is that God became man.

I really have a twofold, and I hope I've met the threshold here, but I have twofold in my mind desire to write the book.

One was to remind believers this is what the gospel is. Explicitly understand that this is a gospel, and this is what

Christmas ought to center around. And then secondarily, and we've used this at our church in this way, and I hope to see some people in heaven because of this, but we've just tried to do a large swath of just passing this out and giving it to people and asking them to read it, because we want unbelievers to understand this actually is what

Christmas is about and to come to a saving knowledge of Christ. And so there's a twofold desire there.

One, yes, to reach the unbeliever, but also to encourage and challenge and even exhort the believer to understand this is what we mean when we say

Christmas. Yes, and unfortunately, the lost and even rebels against Christ find comfort in a baby

Jesus that they view as posing no threat to them.

He is physically harmless. He is in pictures on greeting cards and in nativity scenes and in movies and so forth, an adorable little baby.

And people can forget the very reason he came was to die for the sins of his people.

And this is something that we need to have constantly a part of our

Christmas message, does it not? Not that we have to be cosmic killjoys and inviting people over our home who are not true believers.

We don't have to immediately hit them in the face with a bucket of cold water where we're telling them that they are sinners headed for hell without the blood of Christ.

But at the same time, we should not be removing that from our conversation and our lives just to spare the feelings of people.

Am I making sense here? Absolutely. Yes. I think feelings really dictate our culture today and particularly around where I live, and that is the idea that if you say something that makes someone feel bad, then you are not being a good

Christian. And the reality is the gospel comes with, it's very, very good news, but you don't understand the good news unless you understand the bad news.

And so this is, in my opinion, a wonderful time of year to focus on the centrality of God becoming man.

And yeah, I'm in agreement there. And we're going to go to our first commercial break, and when we come back, we're going to get more in -depth in our discussion of this book, this very timely book,

The Gospel According to Christmas, Celebrating the Incarnation Without Losing the

Plot. And our email address, if you have a question of your own, is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Christmas, although it can be one of the most joyful times of the year, as it likely is for most people, even if they're not

Christians, but at the same time, it can be a season for pain.

I am no stranger to this. I have lost loved ones whom

I can no longer, on this earth, celebrate Christmas in their company, including my precious late wife, including my parents.

So I can have empathy for those who have their

Christmas season tainted with pain, but at the same time, the deeper and greater message behind the

Christmas story transcends a holiday, it transcends a season.

And I'm not speaking ill of the things we do, like the greenery and the

Christmas tree decorated and lit, and the hot cocoa, and all the things that we do, the gift -giving.

But the true issue of Christmas far transcends, infinitely transcends these temporal things, and we want to make sure you don't lose the message behind what can be the madness of the

Christmas season. So we hope to hear from you with your questions at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages. I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our

Triune God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

In our worship, we sing Psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

This program is sponsored by Hope PR Ministry. Hope PR Ministry is a podcast produced by Hope Protestant Reformed Church in Walker, Michigan.

We are dedicated to sharing reformed biblical content every Wednesday and Friday. Tune in for sermons, lectures, and interviews exploring distinctive reformed doctrines.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. That's royaldiadem .com. And we are now back with our guest today, and this is his first time on the program, and I'm thoroughly enjoying our interview already,

Pastor Alan S. Nelson. And we are discussing his book,

The Gospel According to Christmas, celebrating the incarnation without losing the plot.

And perhaps it would be a good idea, even though we likely take it for granted that 99 % of people listening to this program understand the core meaning of Christmas.

Even unbelievers are reminded of that when they see a

Charlie Brown Christmas special. And I don't even know if anyone involved in creating that animation, which

I watched when I was a kid, in which my late wife used to love watching every year, even as an adult.

I don't know if there were any true believers involved in that, but the core of the gospel is presented and proclaimed in that child's cartoon.

So most people have some awareness of what Christmas is supposed to be about and what it's supposed to mean.

But why don't you start by giving us the core message of the gospel through Christmas, and then tell us how many typically have the plot eclipsed by other things, and they really lose the plot of Christmas.

That's a fantastic question, and I'm going to do something a little bit different. I'm going to answer the question with going to the end of the

Bible and then back to the beginning. So without getting into eschatology, if you just read

Revelation 12, it talks about this woman, and she's going to give birth.

And it's my position that the woman represents the people of God in the past, and then the church of all time.

But anyway, so the woman is going to give birth, and the great red dragon is waiting there to consume the child.

And then the child is born, and he's going to rule the nations with a rod of iron. He's caught up to heaven.

Well, what that sets the picture for is that Christmas is kind of the central event of the entire storyline of Scripture.

Now, Chris, I'm not taking away the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Of course not, but I'm saying it all goes together.

You don't get the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ without the birth of Christ, and so that's the end of the

Bible. And then the beginning of the Bible is in the book of Genesis, and in Genesis chapter 3, we have this beautiful promise that there's going to be this seed of the woman in Genesis 3 .15,

and it is the seed of the woman that is going to bruise the serpent's head.

And so that's the bookend of the Bible, Genesis and Revelation, and they both highlight this reality of a child that is going to come.

And then, of course, as you get through the whole storyline of Scripture, you start wondering. I mean, we already know the answer, but if you're reading it, you can think, okay, maybe it's going to be

Noah. Well, it's not Noah. Maybe it's going to be Isaac. Well, it's not Isaac.

Well, maybe it's going to be David. Well, it's not David. Well, it's going to be a son of David. Okay, well, maybe it's going to be

Solomon. Well, no, it's not Solomon. You have this anticipation all the way, building, building, building, and then you get to the

New Testament. You say, no, this son that's promised, it's going to rule the nations. It's going to crush the serpent's head.

It's going to bring us deliverance from our sins. This one promised in Isaiah, Isaiah 9 .6,

for to us a child is born, to us a son is given. The government should be able on his shoulder. This one, it's the

Lord Jesus Christ. It's God in the flesh. God has come to dwell with us.

And you know this, but just to articulate this carefully, the incarnation does not happen at the birth of the

Lord Jesus. The incarnation happens at the conception. When the

Holy Spirit overshadowed, and this is a mystery, right? I was like, how does all this work? I don't have all the answers, brother.

I just confess it, I know that it's the truth. This beautiful mystery of the hypostatic union with two natures in one person.

And that is the divine nature, the son of God, united to the human nature in a way that the natures don't mix.

Beautiful. And this is what happens in the womb of the Virgin Mary. And then nine months later, this child is born and this child is the son of God.

And that's the central point there of Christmas, but I'll stop, but we don't want to just get to that without talking about the purpose of him coming and the fullness of the gospel, of course, but I've been kind of blabbering there for a minute.

I wouldn't call that blabbering, brother. I loved every word of it. Well, thank you. Thank you.

So we get then to the whole reason that he comes. You know, why does our

Lord Jesus not just come down, take on human flesh, die on the cross for our sins, go back to heaven?

Well, there's a reason. He's made like us in every way except without sin. He takes on a true humanity.

And I think a missing element, at least around here that I hear in gospel presentations is we don't just need, brother, someone to pay for our sins, though that is crucial, but we also need someone to obtain a righteousness for us, the righteousness that lost in Adam and that we would never gain back because of our sin.

Is that something to do with the passive and active obedience of Christ? Yes, sir.

Yes. Actively obedient. You know, the second line of the Baptist Confession says that being imputed with the righteousness of Christ is being imputed, being credited with the active and passive obedience of Christ.

His active obedience to the law of God and then his passive obedience upon the cross, taking our sins upon himself.

Amen. And so, how are you in this book counseling people, celebrating this glorious truth of the incarnation without forgetting these primary facts that the whole incarnation and birth and life of Jesus are really all about and intended to be?

Well, I leave, you know, the liberty of conscience to folks on certain things that they want to do or not do.

But I will tell you, you know, some things we do and even in the book that the book deals with a passage that you'd probably never think about as far as a

Christmas narrative, but it is 1 Peter 2 24. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree that we might die to sin and live to righteousness by his wounds you've been healed.

Well, one of the points of the book is that Christ, now I don't necessarily give all these details in the book, but is to keep

Christ central in all that we do. So, you know, your listeners can do what they want. I'm just going to tell you some things that we do.

So, for example, in our house, obviously, we don't do the Santa Claus in the sense of like, you know, we don't lie to our children.

We don't. Christmas is not about the magic of Santa or anything like that. Now, some people throw out Santa Claus altogether.

So we're not even going to have any Santa Claus in our house. Well, so here's what happened in our house. Growing up, my grandmother would always make

Christmas cookies with us to my knowledge. And I think maybe at the end of her life, she became a believer. But growing up, she wasn't.

And she has this tradition that she was in Japan after World War II. My grandfather was in the

Air Force. And while she was in Japan, she had two young daughters. How to keep them busy?

Well, they make Christmas cookies. And so they made these Santa Claus cookies. And that was in like 1947.

It's almost 80 years. That's been in our family that long. And so growing up, I would do that.

Now, I've brought that tradition into my home. We make these Christmas cookies, but we call them

St. Nicholas cookies. And every year we just did this a couple weeks ago. Every year before we start decorating the cookies,

I tell the story. Now, it could be legend. I understand. But I talk about the legend of the real

St. Nicholas, real Nicholas of Myra, the Bishop of Myra, who slapped Darius.

Yeah. And so that's a tradition, too. We go around and we slap heretics.

As soon as they walk through the door with their arms full of gifts, you smack them right across the face.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. There's just an example. So on this one, we talk about, look, if this happened or not,

I don't know. But I can tell you the legend is he did it because Arius denied the divinity of the sun.

And so we talk about that story. Then we read from John 1. We pray and we say, look, we're going to make these cookies.

We like cookies. They're yummy. They're tasty. But we're just going to say, hey, one of the reasons that we want to be reminded this year of this season is that Jesus Christ is truly

God. Now, some of your listeners, maybe they think that's silly, but that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I was like, hey, we're going to do stuff, even traditional things that we do as families and we're going to point to Christ because that's what this time of year, all year, by the way, is about the

Lord Jesus. But particularly this time of year, we want to be focused on him. So that's just an example. Well, you know, this would be a good time to segue into a listener question.

Let's see here. Scotty in Malvern, Pennsylvania asks,

I know that we are not commanded or compelled by the Holy Scripture to celebrate

Christmas, but I do believe that we have the liberty to do so.

How do you respond to those who are either in cults that forbid the celebration of Christmas because of its pagan roots, or even some of our own

Reformed Christian brethren who do not celebrate because it would violate in their minds the regulative principle of worship, which insists that we only do things to observe on the

Lord's Day that are specifically in the Word of God, and therefore, since Christmas is not there, we should refrain from doing so?

And they also will share the same complaint as cult members do that Christmas has pagan roots and Roman Catholic roots.

Well, that is a phenomenal question, and I have thought about this for years, because we are a

Reformed Baptist church. I consider myself a Reformed Baptist. I've holded the 1689. I love our roots.

I love even the Puritans. And so I understand in our history, we have a bit of a sketchy past, if you will, with Christmas in the sense of not celebrating it.

I'm talking about historically, not me personally, but historically in our family tree, if you will.

And so here's a few things that I would say. Let me give you a big answer first.

In Genesis chapter 2, we learn that God rested on the seventh day, and we know that God didn't rest physically, that He is in one sense celebrating

His creation that is completed. It's all very good, and a creation ordinance of the

Sabbath. Anyway, that's a different—but the point I'm making is we're made in the image of God, and this idea of celebration is woven into our very nature.

And you see this all the time. So people celebrate their anniversary. They celebrate the independence of America.

They celebrate birthdays. They celebrate their retirement. And I would argue that it's not wrong to celebrate any of those things.

Those are good. It's part woven into our very fabric to celebrate our accomplishments.

I would argue that God celebrates His accomplishments, of course, in a holy, much higher, infinitely more holy way than we would celebrate our lesser and sometimes meaningless accomplishments.

But anyway, the point is that it is part of being made in the image of God to celebrate.

Now, an argument that I would have is God celebrates the Incarnation in the sense that the angels—it's a special—the angels celebrate it.

If we just were to amass all the Bible verses in the New Testament, and even the Old Testament too, that talk about the

Incarnation as a special event, our time would be exhausted in just working through all those.

And so I understand that Christmas has been commandeered by commercialism.

I understand that it has been commandeered by Roman Catholicism. But I would argue—I'm kind of stubborn,

Chris—like, no, that's our holiday, if you will. I want to celebrate it for the right reasons.

I think the Puritan pushback is right, but an overreaction. So I think it's like they're attacking the right thing and things that we would want to stand on and attack too, but they end up going too far, as Luther might say in his analogy, the drunk gets on one side of the horse and falls off the other.

He's not talking about Christmas, but you understand the analogy. We can do that with anything. And so I would argue that though we're not—actually,

I would say this. Every Christian ought to celebrate the Incarnation. Now, I'm not saying, because Scripture's silent on it, so we can't make a command, that you have to do it on December 25th.

But we should be celebrating the Incarnation weekly, every week, every Lord's Day. But I do not find it a violation of the regulative principle to have a special day that is not required.

You're not putting it on people's conscience. You don't have to do it. It's a special day that we say, hey, we want to remember Christ. We want to give

Him glory. And the regulative principle functions in terms of corporate worship and family worship, but it doesn't come into, like, for example, we have a birthday cake for our children on birthdays, and we give it to them, but yet we also pray.

We pray for them during that, and it's a bit of a ceremony, if you will, but it's not a violation of the regulative principle to do that.

I don't know if I'm rambling or if any of that's making sense. Oh, yeah, it makes perfect sense. And the fact of the matter is that there are many things that we do that may have some connection to a pagan custom, and we may be totally unaware of what that may be—things in our everyday common lives.

But there are things that are morally neutral, that have nothing to do with compelling us to worship falsely and to be violating the second commandment or to be involved in superstition and things like that.

Now, of course, the strictness with which the

Church of Rome adhered to a liturgical calendar and still does and imposes celebrations on their congregants, their parishioners that are not in the

Scripture, that is a totally different issue, which may have been a part of why the

Puritans so strongly rebelled against it or rejected it.

In fact, even to this day, the Roman Catholic Church has some very bizarre beliefs and practices involving

Christmas and many other things, for that matter. But I can remember growing up Roman Catholic, and in Catholic school, during the

Christmas season, we were actually told to pray to the baby

Jesus, as if Christ somehow, during that one season of the year, reverts back to an infant.

It was absolutely nonsensical superstition that obviously should have no place in a

Christian life. When there was such a backlash—here's what happened historically—but when there was such a backlash against Christmas from the

Puritans, it really turned into such an ungodly celebration, kind of like what we would think about Mardi Gras in the

Western world. That's what Christmas turned into. I think in the 19th century, the

Victorian era, there's kind of a recovery. I just kind of say, look, I'm not letting the world take that.

I would say this, and again, your listeners, there's a Christmas lecture that Dr.

James White did a number of years ago, a Sunday school lecture, and I thought he really handled the

Christmas is pagan, I thought he handled that really well.

I came away from that in further research saying that I really don't think Christmas has pagan roots, but I know some people are convinced.

But you made a good point. There are things we do every day. For example, the days of the week.

They're named after pagan gods, yet nobody thinks about that. If you say the word

Thursday, then you're compromising. Well, no, we're not. Those gods are dead, and my god is alive.

I want to be tender. On one hand, for example, we're having a

Christmas Day service this year on Thursday. Next Thursday, we'll have a Christmas Day service.

But we're not requiring, because it's not the Lord's Day, we're not requiring. If you don't come to this, you're going to be under church discipline or something.

We just want to have this. We want to get together, and we're going to—now, when we assemble, we will have, according to the regular principle, we will sing, we will preach, we will pray, we will do these things.

But I think it's perfectly within Christian liberty to do these things.

If you just can't get over your conscience, someone's like, well, I just can't, then I would say, well, okay, then you don't have to do anything the 25th, but also be charitable to your brothers and sisters, because we want to celebrate a beautiful thing.

Amen. We'll pick up on that when we return. This is our midway break. If you do have a question, submit it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

We do have listeners still waiting for their questions to be asked and answered. We will get to you as often, as many of you as we can.

Again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least. City and state and country of residence.

What I was intending to say before the last break was when

I was mentioning that this can be a painful time for some folks, for many folks, when that chair that is usually occupied by a beloved and cherished member of your family is now vacant because they are no longer with us, or it might be because a painful divorce has occurred.

There are many things that could be going on in people's lives. And what I was going to say is you may remain anonymous if you have a question about something that is very deeply personal and private.

Feel free to remain anonymous. But if you're just asking a general question, please give us your first name, at least.

City and state and your country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back right after these messages. I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the

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Welcome back. Before I return to our very fascinating conversation on the gospel, according to Christmas, celebrating the incarnation without losing the plot by our guest

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Gospel According to Christmas, Celebrating the Incarnation Without Losing the

Plot by Alan S. Nelson IV. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence, and only remain anonymous if your question is a personal and private one.

What I intended to say before the midway break began is that if you are among those listening who have a staunch

Puritan prohibition to celebrating

Christmas, celebrating Easter, and other things, that should not be your focus as a

Christian during this time of year. Some people spend more time during this time of year to condemn things like the celebration of Christmas than they do proclaiming the gospel.

And likewise, if you have family, friends, or loved ones who do not choose to celebrate

Christmas, don't condemn them, don't mock them, don't shun them, because we are not commanded to do this.

And if somebody has a conviction not to do it, we should be as gracious and as loving as we would as if they were celebrating these holidays with us.

But give us some more of the importance of this time of year that is often overlooked by even professing

Christians. I was just thinking about some of the things you were saying, and you know, this time of year, even if you are convinced well,

I shouldn't celebrate. Okay. I mean, I disagree, but we can still have fellowship in Christ.

But what you said, I really love that, Chris. Think about this time of year and use it as an opportunity to proclaim more than you do to unbelievers, more than you do about Christians who are celebrating.

Because I think about it, now I live in the South, so maybe things are a little different, but I can walk into a completely secular store, as it were, and I can hear

Hark the Herald Angels Sing. I mean, I can hear someone saying, peace on earth and mercy mild,

God and sinners reconciled. And so it's like, why would

I not think, you know what? I want to use this time of year, even if you have a listener or someone say, well,

I just don't believe that I should do that stuff. Okay. Well, I would say, okay, well then if that's violated your conscience, well, then don't do it.

But what you know, the revealed will of God that you are commanded to do is to proclaim

Christ. And so why not use this time of year? And that's one of the things

I argue in my book. Why would we not consider this time of year to proclaim the excellencies of Christ, particularly when

I understand, look, I'm a Reformed Baptist. I get it. I understand that people are not more prone to get saved this time of year.

But what you're talking about though, is just using the natural things that are happening around you.

And kind of like Paul did in various places. And you're just saying, look, you hear these songs.

Let me tell you what Christmas is really about. You know, what you are saying reminded me, and please forgive me, audience members who have heard me tell this story before.

I do have a reputation for repeating stories, but if I think that they're valuable, why not repeat them?

What you were saying reminded me of myself back in the,

I think it was the eighties. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the eighties because I wasn't married at the time.

And I was sitting in my parents' living room during the

Christmas season. And I was in the cage stage of Calvinism before I knew that was a thing.

And I'm watching a Neil Diamond Christmas special. And believe it or not, he had the

Church of Scientology choir behind him. And I'm sitting there in my father's easy chair watching this, and I'm starting to, my blood is starting to boil.

And I start to say, I can't remember if I was saying it out loud or just to myself, but how dare this man, who is not even a true

Christian, with this cult behind him singing these precious truths of the incarnation and birth of Christ, how dare they put on this masquerade.

And as I'm thinking this, at some point, and I think it was when

Neil Diamond was singing O Holy Night, which is one of my favorite Christmas hymns, it dawned on me like a ton of bricks that the

Christmas season is one time of year when

God in His sovereignty even has the pagans singing in adoration about His incarnation and birth, and why

He even came to this earth. God came in flesh to this earth.

And it just totally changed my opinion in that one viewing of a

TV program that was 180 degrees, and I began to look at this as miraculous, that people who are in Hollywood and people in the music industry that have no reputation for being true followers of Christ, God in His sovereignty has even them singing

His praise. I'm not trying to get crazy here, but Jesus says that when

He's coming into Jerusalem, and they're all praising Him as King, and the

Pharisees say, you've got to stop them. He says, if you don't, if they don't, even the rocks will cry out.

Well, you think about all these rock -hearted people, stone -hearted people crying out.

It's a great thought that you had there. Another thing

I tell people in the book, I don't quote this in the book just because it's too long, but this time of year is a great time to revisit, even if you've never picked up the

Second London Baptist Confession before. This is a great time of year to find it free online and read chapter 8 on Christ the

Mediator. It is a great chapter. It won't take long to do it. I'd encourage you to read it even with your family, maybe even at your church during Sunday school.

It just has a great articulation of who Jesus is, and this is a great time of year to sharpen our theology and to just consider why we worship

Jesus for who He is. He is everything. So, that's just another thought there.

Tom Hanks Amen. Well, let me go to another one of our listener questions, and perhaps he knows you.

He's from Perryville, Arkansas. Gunner—love that name—what book, other than the

Bible, would you recommend a father going through with his 10 -year -old daughter regarding salvation?

Yeah. Yeah, I know Gunner quite well. He leads our music on Sundays. Well, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Gunner.

Yes. Hello, Gunner. Grateful for you, brother. I'm grateful for your desire to walk through these things.

You know, I think—well, that was one of the—I know

Gunner, so this is kind of a weird way to say it to you. But, you know, one of the books, one of the reasons

I wrote this book the way I did is—and with questions at the end—is for the idea of dads to be able to go through it with their dads, with their children or husbands, with their wives, some ladies, with other ladies.

Books written with that kind of mindset, short chapters and that. And so I'm not saying this is the best book ever, but it could be used in that way.

You know, do you have a recommendation, Chris? I'd have to think about that for a second. Well, Pilgrim's Progress is a classic.

Yes. Obviously, as long as the parent is explaining things in detail because it's an allegory, and you have to really, you know, get involved in revealing the biblical truths behind the allegories that Bunyan is painting here.

But—and there are obviously—if you go to a good, reputable, Reformed publisher's website, there will no doubt be some excellent things involving books for children.

There's—go ahead. Well, there's a book I just thought about. I had to look up The Gospel Made Clear to Children by Jennifer Adams.

That's actually put out by Free Grace Press as well, but that's a good—she deals with some really great themes that children could learn well, you know, about righteousness and justification, all these things.

Yeah, and I appreciate the desire from Gunnar, and, you know, also, the

Pilgrim's Progress is great, and I agree with what you said. Read through that. We've done that with our children, and then walking through, explaining, discussing, that will take you some time.

You're not going to do that in one sitting, for sure. And then also, don't discount reading through the

Bible. I mean, I know that he does that, but I would also encourage other dads, hey, pick a book of the

Bible to read with your children, especially—you're talking about Salvation, 1

John, or Ephesians, and just don't discredit walking through the truths of Scripture with your children.

God is pleased to use those things. Yes, and I know that R .C.

Sproul wrote some really wonderful children's books, and these beautifully illustrated hardback editions that you will no doubt be able to find at Ligonier .org

and other Reformed book distributors. Dr.

Sproul had quite an imagination as well as a heart for the gospel, and I think he beautifully reflected the stories intended for children.

He reflected the gospel of Jesus Christ throughout, so that's just another strong recommendation.

Well, thank you, Gunnar. I hope that you continue listening to Orange, Purple, and Zion radio, and we hope to hear from you again from time to time with questions for folks other than your own pastor.

Let's see here. We do have an anonymous listener who is writing for the very reason

I brought up earlier. The anonymous listener says, don't you think it is very wise for Christian families and even churches to go through a list of those they know whom they may be aware are suffering through some kind of hardship in their life, such as the loss of a loved one in death, or as you mentioned earlier, the loss of a loved one in divorce, or perhaps there are just other tragedies going on in the home involving drug addiction and drunkenness and other things that have caused quite pain, quite a bit of pain in those families?

And it might also be the loss of income due to a loss of a job.

Shouldn't we be keeping these folks in mind during this time of year? And although it is always a command to us to pray for such ones, but that we actually seek to meet physical needs such as companionship, love, meals, and other things that may be most in need during the holiday season when depression and sadness are greatly magnified.

Yeah, that's a really good question. You've already addressed it in some, but if I could just say, you hear this phrase a lot, and I understand what people mean, but they say things like, we just want to help that person have a good

Christmas, or sometimes people in a difficult situation, they may say, well, we're just not going to have

Christmas this year. And if I could push back on that just a little bit and say that Christmas is not something that you can make better or worse.

It's not something that you can not have. I mean, Christmas just is, period, because God has done something about our sins in Christ.

And it is a reminder this time of year, of all the times of year, is a reminder that God alone can do the impossible things, and that in the midst of pain and sorrow and darkness, there is hope, and that Jesus Christ comes, as the

Isaac Watts song says, he comes to make his blessings known far as the curse is found.

Now, none of that, brother, is trying to do away with the real pain and sorrow that we feel.

I deeply miss my grandparents and the traditions we had. We just had a sister in our church who lost her husband in October.

This is going to be a difficult, it already is a difficult season for her, and the pain is real.

But if we can move beyond the sentimentality of Christmas and point to the real hope and walk through these things with people, not gloss over them, but weep with those who weep, even as we rejoice with those who rejoice, then absolutely this time of year ought to be a time that we particularly look to the heavy laden in our congregations, those who are burdened by various trials, and walk through these situations with them, particularly though with the hope of the gospel.

So, for example, I think it's right, I think it's good if there's a family in your church and they're not able to get any gifts for their children, and you want to help with that.

I don't think it's wrong to do that. Help, it's generous, but at the same time, let's bring the gospel to bear, okay, because the hope of this time of year is the hope of Jesus Christ, and we are living, if you go back to Revelation 12, mentioned earlier, we are living in the wilderness.

First Peter, we are in exile here during this time, as it were, but there's hope because Christ has come, and we may suffer here and now, and we will at various times, various ways, but that suffering is but a foretaste of the glory, and Paul says it's not worthy to compare with the glory we will receive.

And so, absolutely, to answer the listener's question, yes, we should be mindful in our celebrations of those who are hurting, and bring the gospel and the hope of this time of year to them.

Anyway, I'm continuing on there, brother. And we have

Corinne in Hasbrook Heights, New Jersey, and Corinne says,

Yes, I don't know if you've ever heard of this phenomenon or experienced it yourself, but sometimes when people are going through deep sorrow and grief, perhaps even especially after the loss of a loved one, they are apprehensive to intrude upon the happiness and joys of others, even during a

Christmas season celebration, by bringing them down, and they don't want to do that.

Do you have any counsel on how these people can overcome that so that they don't isolate themselves in loneliness during times of year like Christmas?

Wow, yeah, that's another really great question, and pastorally, I would say it's a responsibility on both parties.

This is more a deeper position on the church here, but too many times in the church, we keep things superficial.

We just say, Well, hey, that's the Johnson family, and we see them on Sundays, and then we don't see them again until next

Sunday. And I would just make an argument and a plea with your listeners and with all of us that we need to be more intentional.

We need to know one another in the church so that we can detect these kinds of things and live life together and bear one another burdens and see these things.

So that's one aspect. Another aspect I would encourage this person with is to remember, okay, it doesn't matter what we've been through.

Every believer has something to celebrate this time of year because God became man, and it's okay to be sad.

It's not wrong to miss those that God has blessed you with for so long, and now they're gone.

But as Job says, the Lord gives, the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. We still bless

His name. We can still be encouraged in Christ, but joy in Christ doesn't necessarily mean that I have to have a smile on my face all the time, and that's okay.

We have to be able to live that way in this fallen world and understand I'm going to be around people, and sometimes

I'm just not going to feel like smiling because of the deep pain and sorrow, but I can still have joy and cultivate joy in the gospel of Christ because of what

He's done. We need to build our relationships with one another around the truth of what

Jesus Christ has done in His finished work and not expect—last thing, not expect people.

If you come into—like we're going to have a gathering at our house Christmas Eve. We're going to do some grilling and just enjoy one another.

If you come to that and you're not smiling, we're not going to kick you out. Now, when you say you're doing grilling, are you interrogating people or do you mean food?

Maybe both. Well, thank you,

Corinne. Excellent question. And of course, the body of Christ, the church, should beat that person to the punch, as they say, and make it a lot easier for them to come to a celebration without fear of bringing down the mood by being the first ones to inviting that person that you know is mourning and reassuring them that they can feel free to have their emotions worn on their sleeve if they must, but they want—their presence is very much desired at such and such a place and make them feel encouraged and less uncomfortable, and that perhaps, as often laughter is, it will be contagious and you could lift the spirits of someone just by inviting them.

Amen. Amen. That's good. Amen. And any further thoughts before we go to our final break?

Noah, just about the question or just— About anything that you want to address.

Yeah, Noah, I really appreciate what you said. We really just, in the church, we need to have real relationships, and real relationships is, in a fallen world, we're broken, we've dealt with pain and suffering and sorrow, but this is the beauty of this time of year is that the light has come, and that's what we celebrate this time of year.

It's the darkest time of year, and in the darkest time of year, the light has come, and we celebrate that, and so there's hope.

Particularly though, it's not in sentimentality. It is in what Jesus has done. Your greatest problem has been addressed, namely, your sins against the

Holy God. It has been addressed in the incarnational work of Christ by His life, death, burial, resurrection.

Amen. Well, we're going to our final break, and if you do have a question, submit it now, because we are running out of time.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus, the King, and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lynbrook Baptist Church, a

Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the

Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

At Lynbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

Word of God, inerrant in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

God's image. If you live near Lynbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lynbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

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and co -founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tim Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana, and the

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Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

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For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

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Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in scripture alone.

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I'm truly grateful for many things that the Trump administration has ushered in, but here's something that seriously concerns me.

On July 18th, President Donald Trump signed the Genius Act into law.

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But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the Word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to Him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.

That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's Word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

God bless you. Welcome back. First of all,

I want to remind our listeners that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

If you're ever the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the

United States, please call my very dear longtime friend and brother in Christ, Daniel P.

Buttafuoco, attorney at law at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit

Dan's website at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

Please tell Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm,

Buttafuoco and Associates, from Chris Arnson on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. I also want to remind all men in ministry leadership that you are all invited to the next biannual free

Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon this

March 5, 2026, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

Our keynote speaker for the second time at this luncheon is Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and founding chancellor of African Christian University, and also one of the most highly sought -after conference speakers in the world.

He is one of the most powerful preachers alive on the planet Earth, in my opinion.

In fact, I happen to think he's the most powerful preacher alive. And if you would like to attend this free luncheon, everything is free.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put

Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. And that reminds me, since it is the

Christmas season, my biannual free Pastors Luncheons came into being during a

Christmas season on Long Island, New York, where I used to live, in the 1990s, when my precious late wife,

Julie, knowing that I worked in Christian radio—this is even before I had my own program, but I was an account executive for a major Christian radio station in New York City, WMCA 570

AM, an affiliate of Salem Media, the largest Christian radio network in the world—and she knew that I had so many friends that were pastors, she said, why don't we, next

Christmas, forego giving Christmas gifts to each other and use that money to treat your pastor friends to a lunch, and you can have a special keynote speaker there, you can perhaps get

Christian publishers to donate books to give away. And I said, that's a great idea, and we began doing that.

Originally, it was the week before Christmas or nearby that date, and now

I have them twice a year, and the dates are hinged upon when the speakers

I'm inviting to speak at these events are available. But being the

Christmas season, I thought that I'd take that opportunity to give tribute to my precious late wife, who used the

Christmas season to give birth to a ministry, meaning these pastor's luncheons.

So, and that's something to keep in mind for folks to be creative in turning seasons of the year into some kind of a ministry.

Am I right? Tom McNamara Amen, that's good. Tom McNamara Okay, we have

Nevin, and Nevin is located in either

Tiverton, Rhode Island, or Tiverton, I don't know how to pronounce that. Nevin says, some people just boycott things like TV specials like It's a

Wonderful Life, that classic black -and -white movie starring

Jimmy Stewart because of the fact that there are unbiblical things that take place in the movie.

Do you think that that is going too far? Can we not enjoy things like that, that may have unbiblical themes running throughout them, and use them even as an opportunity to teach our children how the movie was wrong and how it was right?

Tom McNamara Yeah, I would agree. He sounds like he kind of is answering the question in the way he's asking it, and I would agree with that.

I think in the Scripture sometimes you don't want to take it too far, but you knew that Paul was at least familiar with some of the secular poets and such, and so I think it's okay.

If your conscience says don't do it, then maybe talk to your pastor about that, step away, but for me,

I don't mind that kind of stuff, and I think your listener had a good discussion there. Hey, we'll watch it, but we'll also talk to our kids about some of these unbiblical things, and we'll use it as a teaching tool.

Tom McNamara Yeah, that is probably, and I may be wrong, but the first suicide prevention movie ever filmed, and if anybody knows of another one, let me know, but I am unaware of any movie older than that that was basically on the theme to get people to seriously reconsider committing suicide, because that's what really the central theme of it was.

Well, in these last minutes that we have left, I really want you to unburden your heart and summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Tom McNamara Yeah, wow, that's good. I would just say this. We've said it multiple times throughout the show, but I'm going to extend it a little further, and that is

God has done something. I'm sure most of your listeners are believers, but God has done something about our greatest problem by sending

His Son, who not only died for our sins, but fulfilled all righteousness.

In His body, He fulfilled righteousness for us, and it is that righteousness that He obtained that is imputed to us by grace through faith, because not only did

He do that, He bore the burden to Calvary. As the song says, He took our sins in His body on the tree, as 1

Peter 2, 24 says, God's wrath propitiated in the sacrifice of Christ.

On the third day, He rose again from the dead in His body, by the way, bodily, bodily ascended into heaven, and one day will bodily return to this earth to rescue

His bride. Our whole life is centered around this message.

I even talk about in the book too, and this is where I press it further, that we don't understand this message without being active participants in living out the realities of this message together with one another in the local church.

There's not a more important message to make sure that we understand than the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to see that applied in our lives by living out what the gospel produces and how

Jesus came to build His church, putting His people together in local visible congregations, and making much of Christ every opportunity we get, knowing one another well enough to encourage one another when we're down, to confront one another when we're struggling with sin, to help one another, and in all of it to bring glory to God in the face of Jesus Christ.

That's what I'd want to say. Amen. Well, folks, if you would like to purchase this book, go to freegracepress .com.

In fact, there are huge discounts when buying multiple copies.

Also, don't forget about Providence Baptist Church of Perryville, Arkansas. Their website is providencebaptistar .com.

Providencebaptistar .com. Thank you so much, Pastor Allen, for being such a delightful guest.

I want to thank everybody who listened, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater