The American Churchman: Is it a sin for parents to send kids to public school?

Welcome to the American Churchman podcast, where we encourage men to take dominion, live up to their God-given call, and love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength. I have, as always, my co-host Matthew Pearson with me, but I also have my brother and the president of TrueScript, David Harris, with us today.

Hey, gentlemen, how are you doing?

I'm good. I'm good. David, how are you doing?

Pretty good. Can't complain too much.

TrueScript, Public School, and the Question of Sin

What I thought we'd do is we would talk about the public school article that you wrote, David, since you have some direct knowledge about that, and if we have time, get into some other articles on TrueScript.

But before we do that, it's the end of the year and probably a good time to make a pitch for TrueScript and talk about what TrueScript has done and what it can do.

TrueScript has been around for almost three years now, and we've published—at this point, it's over 350 original articles, pieces on a variety of topics that are meant to encourage and admonish and provide guidance on things that a lot of mainstream evangelical publications are not doing.

So we've had some great conferences. We had the Christianity Founding Conference this last year. We've had a men's retreat that we've done every year. So coming up to the end of the year, we are looking for your money.

We're looking for funding for the next year, and we have a lot of big plans, honestly, if the funding is there. And one thing that I would say just in pitching support for TrueScript in particular, a lot of the issues that we've had, especially in the evangelical world, have to do with a lack of trust in institutions.

So the point of TrueScript is meant to build an institution. A lot of us spent a lot of time over 2020, 2021, 2022, and a lot of us just eventually tuned out to what the Gospel Coalition was putting out and promoting, their kind of hard left that they took during the COVID years.

And a lot of the time, we're very good at complaining, but we're not always super good at building. So TrueScript is meant to build, to create something that is going to be helpful for your regular Christian, the regular pucinating Christian who needs answers about things that are going on around them, that wants to have a better marriage and raise their children and the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

The piece that I wrote last week is about education. You know, as the director, I would really like to tap into that area, especially because the education system is really changing very, very fast. AI, there's a lot of challenges with AI.

There's not a lot of people providing a lot of answers on how to use it, what to do with it. So at TrueScript, we want to provide biblical grounding for those big questions and things that are going on in all of our lives.

Excellent. Well, there's a few articles.

That are up on the website right now. I think I can show them to you. Here's the featured article, Vickers of Offense, Matthew 18, The Biblical Confrontation. So we have an article on church discipline.

And then I don't know why the, maybe it's my browser, but a movie's magic, a miracle on 34th street, Christmas article. Brother Tim Bushong wrote an article here about, I think just, it's called walk and chew gum, but it's about how to like not get too involved in either extreme, I guess, for lack of a better term.

And then Andrew Rappaport on ministry versus platform building. And I don't actually,.

Where is yours, David? It's right under the camera one right there.

Oh, here it is. Is it a sin to send your children to public school? So I actually talked about this on the podcast that I do conversations that matter, but obviously you weren't here for it and you are a public school teacher.

So I'll let mainly you and Matthew talk about this. I believe it was Doug Wilson. And then it was Brian Suave. There may have been others, but those are the two that I saw who were saying that it's a sin to send your kids to public school.

And that sparked a whole lot of backlash and then a debate about this. And so that's where we're coming into it. So that said, I'll give you the floor. First, David, what do you think about that idea of public school being a sin in and of itself to send your children there?

Wisdom, Legalism, and the Limits of Calling Public School a Sin

Well, I mean, I know I've gotten a little.

Bit of pushback for it, for saying that it's not necessarily, all I said was it's not necessarily a sin to send your kids to public school. I think the reaction probably has something to do with, um, I really think about like dating and the road to getting married has a lot of parallels with this issue.

So, um, for example, it's a sin to kiss before you're married. So is that, is that true? Is it a sin to kiss before you're married? It's not, it's not a biblical mandate. It's, I would argue it's a sort of a legalistic rule that was created to deal with a kind of a licentious culture.

So it's very tempting to, and I'm going to sound like our father here, which would be a big compliment, but, um, a lot of things that we would like to really easily just put in the cat, the, the, the box of sin, this is a sinful thing.

And then we don't really have to think about it a whole lot anymore. We don't really have to deal with, um, those complex, complicated situations that arise when you're trying to live in a secular culture.

Um, so my knee-jerk kind of reaction, especially when I see, um, leaders in the evangelical world, just sort of making a blanket statement about it and saying like, well, it's a sin to do that. My knee-jerk reaction usually is to come to the defense of the regular Christian.

And maybe that's not always, maybe that's, there's a lot of problems with American Christianity. Sure. But, um, I, I taught public school in New York state for about five years and have taught for about four years in Tennessee.

And they're very different places. And the situation in New York is very different than the situation in Tennessee. There's a lot of people who do send their kids to public school that are, um, they're good Christian folks.

Like they're not, they don't necessarily know about all the issues, the structural issues with public school. So, um, and then again, the piece that I wrote was not a defense of public schools. Like really it's like ripping public schools apart.

So, um, I'm not at all advocating for sending your kids to public school, uh, in it. I don't think you should, but, um, rather than just make a hard fast rule about it, I think you should try to apply wisdom.

You should take the situation that you're in and it's, it's just going to be different depending on where you live. Um, what your situation is with, are you married? Are you divorced? Like all those things are going to into it.

So I can make a, I can make an overall like general statement and say, um, it, you know, it is generally not good to send your children to public school, but I'm not comfortable making a blanket statement and saying, well, it's a sin to send your kids to public school.

Cause I think sin is serious. I think it's a very serious thing. And if we're going to call something a sin, then we should be really, really sure that it's always sinful. If that makes sense.

Public School, Public College, and the Need for Wisdom

Yeah. Well, what I would say is just to clarify, I went to private school from pre-K through 12th grade. So that was private from pre-K up to fourth grade. It was like a private non-Christian school, but from fifth through senior year of high school, it was a private Christian school.

So I had the private Christian education. Um, my undergraduate though was a public college and I got a liberal arts major and minor. I majored in religious studies, minored in philosophy, and there were definitely some crazy things, uh, that I was taught that, uh, were I ill equipped, um, with knowledge and very impressionable, uh, probably would have shipwrecked me were I to believe in them.

So it was pretty wild. Some of the things I was taught, some of the things that I saw. Um, but at the end of the day, um, it with, at least with public colleges, what sort of sets that apart is it's different than normal like schools, because for like normal schools, you know, you go there, then you just go home for like a public college or any college, really.

You, you either live there, you live close to campus and you're very involved in the culture. And with that comes campus ministries. And when there's a campus ministry, you're not only involved with the school, but you're involved with something connected with the school, which is encouraging you to live out your faith, to go to church and all these things.

So what a lot of college is about is finding community, finding people to, um, create like networks with and like, um, friendships with. And when you have that, uh, it's able to sort of be like an anchor, uh, for you, um, to be able to put up with all the BS, I guess, thrown your way regarding just outright degenerate things that you're going to learn.

Um, but I mean, I, I hardly agree with, uh, David on it. If let's talk about public school where it's most common, that's like the K through 12 system. I would generally say that it is generally not wise and can be sinful to send your children to a public school.

What that is not saying is that sending your children to public schools is per se sinful because you know, all, you know, Christian nationalism's hot right now. Having a Christian civil magistrate, it's not for good reason.

I agree in having a Christian civil magistrate, let's say he reforms a public school system such that our tax dollars go towards school, which teach children Orthodox Protestant Christianity. I'm fine with that.

That's great. As a matter of fact, depending on where it is, I'd be happy to send my children there. Sure. No big deal. Um, that's a situation and circumstance where it's totally listed. Now let's even go a little bit crazier here.

There may be a nice little part of town and your state where the school that your child is zoned for does not have anything super controversial. Everyone, the teachers there, you can generally trust to teach them true things and not shove propaganda down their throat.

In that circumstance, obviously it's permissible and okay to send your children to public school. So sort of like what, uh, David was just saying, it's about using wisdom to discern what is going to be the best for you and your current circumstance.

So do you have enough money to homeschool? Do you have enough money for a Christian school? Do you have enough money for a classical Christian school? What if the classical Christian school is actually Roman Catholic?

Are you okay with your child going there? There's a lot of things that you need to consider that a lot of people, when they're oftentimes like a bit more Biblicist and how they understand things, where it's either the scripture explicitly says this or not, they fail to be able to use like categories of wisdom to look at particular circumstances and be able to say, okay, I ought to do this because when scripture is referred to as like the living, uh, you know, living and breathing word of God, sharper than a two edged sword.

Um, that doesn't mean that the Bible is going to explicitly verbatim say, Hey, if you're in this situation, do this. Hey, if you're in this situation, do this. And it also doesn't mean, Oh, since the Bible doesn't say this, you need a Pope who's infallible to tell you, Hey, when you're in this situation, do this.

No, the scripture presumes that you have a rational mind, which is not only rational because of the way God made you, but it's furthermore sanctified by the spirit with divine principles such that you can invoke godly wisdom to discern how do I approach this situation?

And so that sort of is what we need to think through when considering the question of, is it sinful to send your child.

To public school? Now, this is a question that I think is relevant to this. There are different scenarios in the country and in regions, there's different kinds of public schools. There's different teachers.

Uh, are there public schools that might be okay? Like not as bad as what.

Public Schools, College, and the Formation of Christian Community

Matthew was describing? It depends what you mean by okay. And this is kind of what, what I can get into in this. So, um, I'm, I probably have everybody beat out for the most secular liberal college. I went to state university of New York at New Paltz for five years.

Uh, that is where the hippies, when they came for Woodstock, a lot of them never left. They became professors at this college. So it was a, um, hard, hard left, uh, school. And, um, when I entered, um, actually John and I were both involved in a lot of, um, campus ministry stuff back then.

I mean, that's, you know, this is only like 12, 13 years ago, but we did organized debates, um, that had pretty good attendance. And we would have booths where we handed out tracks on campus. A lot of those things.

I really don't think, even though it's only been a decade, I don't think you can really do a lot of those things, uh, anymore. Like you will, you won't be allowed to. So the situation has changed a lot just in 10 years.

But, uh, with the, you know, like you were talking about Matt getting into a community. So I got into a community pretty fast. I was involved with the navigators on campus and I knew several dozen who, you know, they weren't all completely solid, but they were coming from Christian homes.

A lot of, you know, charismatic backgrounds, a lot of faith assembly and Calvary chapel and things like that. But, you know, we were all kind of together and we were, we'd worship together and we would have, uh, prayer groups and I can probably count on one hand, the number of students who are still walking with the Lord now.

So essentially almost every, it's like one hand, my best friend and I went together. He's still walking. I'm still walking, but, um, all the overwhelming majority of those Christian, you know, conservative households, those kids all went to this, you know, they went away to college and they all almost all, almost to a man, like the over dozens of them.

I saw this happen in real time. So even, even on the college level, uh, you, you see this happening, but to go back to kind of what you were just saying, John, um, all public schools are not the same.

Like I was saying, there are significant cultural differences. So I live kind of in the middle of nowhere in. If I walk into, uh, one of the schools I work in, I'm not going to see any rainbows. I'm not going to see any BLM stuff.

I will see Bible verses everywhere. I will see teachers praying together. I will see. So it's because the culture is different. The school is different. However, this is why even in my local town and people ask me this and I tell, I'm very honest.

No, I'm not sending my kids to even these schools. And there's two reasons, two main reasons. One of them, can I get into this a little bit in the article is your primary responsibility as a parent, especially as a father is the protection of your children.

You owe them protection. Uh, that's first that comes before anything else. And the way that our system is currently set up public schools in the United States are open to the entire world. So a lot of people don't know this, but you can move from anywhere on the planet.

And as long as you have an address that you can give the secretary, you can enroll your kid in that school. So when we had the job, and so this is something that has only changed in the last five years, really, in terms of scale, when before the great mass migration of 2021, there was a lot more homogeneity and a lot of these schools, especially in rural areas, it's not the case anymore.

Every public school, pretty much in the entire country. All of them are open to anybody in the world, but a lot of them are actually bursting at the seams with people from all over the planet, especially Honduras, Guatemala, India.

Um, and the ethics, especially the sexual ethics of a lot of these places are very foreign to your children. So my, my number one reason why I won't send my kids, it would be a sin for me knowing what I know is because I owe my kids protection.

And if anybody can walk into that school from anywhere and, and lie about their age, which is something that happens quite a bit, a lot more than people realize, um, then I'm not really fulfilling that duty to my kids.

So that's one. The other thing would be that because of the way that work and careers have shifted so much in the last, especially 20 years, the public, the structure of the public school system is not setting you up for success afterwards.

It's essentially become a babysitting operation and it's getting worse by the day. And I see this in real time because this is where I work. Um, because they're really, there is no consensus on what children are being prepared for.

Everything is data and your, your children are not data. Your children are human beings created in the image of God with, uh, with different talents that he's given them and the different passions that he imparts upon them.

Um, and the system, it's systemic, you know, to borrow a term, uh, is set up in such a way to completely take all of that ambition out and sort of put you on a data set. So those, those really, before we even get to wokeness and sexual ethics and all this, the issues that you have in the public school to begin with, you have your responsibility to provide protection for your family.

And then you have just the way that the system is set up is not really fulfilling those proverbial, um, instructions to raise your children in wisdom because they're not going to get it if everything is just about test data.

And that really is all.

Education, Moral Formation, and the Parent's Responsibility

The public system is at this point. And talking about like, um, the point about raising your kids in wisdom. Um, I think that is like, that, that is something good to consider when thinking about public schools, but also it's, it opens up another conversation of what the purpose of the school system is because at the end of the day, um, even for people who work in a school, they ought to like have this understanding that like, you are not the child's primary caretaker or modeled for virtue.

You can be seen as maybe a caretaker or a model for virtue because you're giving them education. And if it's good education, it will shape them for lives of virtue and things like that, which kind of also gets at the purpose of education, uh, in general.

Um, but, uh, a lot of what you said just really sparked my mind because a lot of parents sort of have this notion that, um, the, the government just has to take care of their kids and then they get off work, pick their kid up.

And then they kind of just like go buzz in and out of reality because they're tired from work all day. And then, Oh, my kids yapping in my ear, I'll give them some Cheerios or something. And that's that take them to school again.

Um, but in reality, it's like, even if you send this, uh, a child to like the best Christian school that's out there, then they're, they're big on the classical tradition or something. You as a parent ought to still have this notion of, no, I am the one who primarily shapes my child.

Like it doesn't, that's not just what homeschooling parents do. It's also what any parent should do. Um, and so you shouldn't like send your child to school and expect that the chief, like Ma like that, which is going to be molding them is doing a chiefly and primarily just be the school.

Um, you have to have this understanding that when you're looking at a school, have this notion that no, what they're doing is they're helping prepare my child for me to also impart wisdom on them. And that's why a good school will teach your teach children the moral law.

So honor thy father and mother. So it all kind of gets back to that, about what the purpose of schooling is in the modern day, what it was in times past. Um, and the parent's role in that, because at the end of the day, you can't just ship off your kids to school and expect them to do everything for you.

There's a responsibility that you take on yourself. And I'm an expert in this because I'm somebody without any kids. So I obviously know how it's done. So Danny, you gentlemen have, have any thoughts on, on what I just said there?

I agree. I think there's some verses that David puts in this article, uh, that are all about education that mirror what you were just saying, Matthew train up a child in the way he should go. Even when he's old, he will not depart.

Fathers do not provoke your children, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. It goes on. Uh, it centers the responsibility with parents and each one of them, uh, seems to, if there's a rule, a rigid rule, it seems to indicate that it's parents who are to educate them.

And the way that they're supposed to educate them includes the moral instruction. Matthew was just talking about, uh, fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, right? So I think this is a, is a question that I've heard many people, uh, approach the question this way, and I think it's a helpful way to discuss it, but, um, it might complicate things a little further, which is fine in our discussion that there really is no such thing as an irreligious education, that any education is going to have a component of religion, not just morality in the abstract, like, uh, separated from religion, but there's a religious system that undergirds, uh, instruction.

So, um, the even example, it's not like two plus two equals four is a uniquely Christian concept in the sense that only Christians are able to recognize this truth. Anyone can recognize it looking into the natural world and having experience in it.

But, uh, I think the idea is that there should be a, uh, an element of recognition that God is the one who set up the world this way. And, um, it's because of his stable character that two plus two will always equal four.

And, and so there's, there's obviously moral instruction baked into this, like it's wrong to have the LGBT normalized, uh, stuff in school and abortion access, but it's, it's more than that. It's what I'm trying to say.

Um, and I think that's the basis upon which some people say it's sinful because you go to the public school and they try to market the idea that what they're doing is essentially neutral. Um, to, to add one extra element to this, maybe for discussion that I think would be helpful.

If you get on the job training though, let's say it's a firm that does accounting or something, or it could be a blue collar job. It could be trucking and you're going to have some training for a few weeks.

My brother, uh, my other brother did training with engineering and he was, um, working on big engines and he had to go somewhere and stay there for weeks while they trained him. Those places are also not going to give you an explicitly Christian understanding of engineering, right?

They're just teaching you how it works and what to do at your job. They're not telling you. And it's because of the God of order, Jesus Christ, that this all works or anything. They don't attribute it to him.

Um, so I, I, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it would seem to me like if public schools are sinful for that reason, because they don't give enough glory to Christ or something like that, because all education is real fundamentally religious.

It would seem like on the job training would also be in that category as well. So, um, yeah, one of either one of you who has a thought,.

Maybe help us navigate that. Well, I can think of some biblical parallels. I mean, one would be Daniel because Daniel is in, uh, the Babylonian and the Persian government, the high echelons of the Persian government, not a, obviously not a, uh, um, faithful nation state.

So, uh, but yet God still uses him in the role that he's in. He's faithful to God. And even when it is going to be, you know, it's going to cost him his life. Uh, he is, he remembers his Lord first before he does anything else.

Uh, you also have Cornelius, the centurion. So Rome did all sorts of nasty stuff all over the place. They were a pagan empire. Uh, but Cornelius has never told, you know, um, well, now that you're a Christian, you got to leave your job.

You can't do this anymore. Um, he, as far as we know, he continues to be a centurion and he tries to honor God in the role, uh, that he's in. So those things are going to be costly, but I feel like in some ways, this is the tension and the struggle that we're in.

Matt kind of brought up the Christian nationalism, uh, craze, I guess. I don't know what, I don't even know how to define that. There's so many different splinter groups and there's this one and they're kind of all canceling each other.

So, but within that kind of framework, you have, um, you have a, I would say a pretty strong undercurrent of, um, separation. So you, we need to separate ourselves from pretty much every institution as much as possible.

And, and I, I get it. I'm somewhat, it, that, that attitude, um, is somewhat tempting, I think, but we still are part of something, especially as Americans, we're part of a nation that has a very particular heritage.

Um, I, I'm not going to put my kids in public school because I actually want them to remember that heritage. I want them to kind of know who they are and where they came from. And I know they won't get that in the public school system, which is really sad because it's the public school system.

Uh, but I still am an American. I'm still a part of something that is, um, that goes beyond just my church. I'm a part of my church, but I think there is a, there's a temptation to kind of go Amish or go Mennonite and create all our own institutions.

And, but you're still a part of a lot of these institutions, uh, whether you know it or not, you're still taking, taking part in usually the political system and all sorts of other things. There may be there, there will come a point when, you know, you really do just need to separate.

I'm not convinced that we're there yet, at least not in many parts of the country. So if that's the case, then you still need people. You still, I mean, I'm a teacher. I work in the public school system.

I try to honor God in the role that I'm in. And I'm also like, I'm talking about it openly here. I've talked about it openly other places. I've, you know, the people I work with by and large know how I feel about this policy and that policy.

So I try to be salt and light in the role that I'm in. So you need Christians doing those things as well. If we're just going to do a separation thing, then I, I don't know, I don't really want to hear a whole lot about politics because we're just separating.

We're, we're not going to, we're not going to try to really do anything for these institutions. 80 of roughly 80 of American school children still go to public school. So even, which is great because that number has decreased a lot, especially post COVID.

But the whole system, it still matters. It's still something that even if you don't put your kids in public school, I think you should pay attention to because it will shape your community. Whatever community you live in is coming from that public school system.

So I guess my call would be to, to try to engage with it, to try to find out what's going on, even politically, because education right now is pretty, it has become extremely political. And not necessarily just separate.

Some places like, man, if you live where I taught in New York, just, just separate yourself out. Like there's really nothing that you can do for that situation. Those urban public schools in every part of the country, it doesn't matter where you are, Atlanta, Orlando, San Diego, they're extremely dangerous.

They're very violent places. Putting your kid in one of those schools is just dangerous. So I think you do need to completely remove yourself. But again, we're a big country. It's a big world. And it will vary somewhat, depending on where you are.

So apply wisdom. Yeah, I think the two reasons to separate them out that we've talked about that people might say that it's sinful are one, the parental responsibility to school more directly. So that would disqualify Christian school, technically, if it's just if it's directly parents, and there are homeschoolers who think that way.

I know that's not Doug Wilson. That's not Ryan, so they whoever else was talking about it, I think they would be fine with Christian schools, because I think they both have them. But there's so that's one reason.

Another reason is just the threat level, which you brought up violence is one thing, but also just the contrary ideas that are being taught there to our faith. And then the I think you can separate that out into two different things.

One is those elements that are specifically anti Christian, and then those elements that just fail to honor or mention Christ. This is where I come down on it. I think the elements where you there's a failure to acknowledge Christ or honor him, necessarily, like it, I do think about college, I do think about on the job training, technical skills and stuff.

You know, when I go for a doctor's appointment to like, I want someone who knows what they're doing technically, and I understand that the reason that they can do what they do is because of the order God has infused in the universe, and they're a direct creation of his, but I think those are the things that can be supplied by parents at home.

And even if your kid is in public school, you still have this responsibility to let them know, hey, when you go to math class, math is works a certain way, because God is a God of order, right? So, so I do think that, at least we're not talking about the anti Christian ideas, but at least when God has failed to be acknowledged, and that kind of thing, you can supply that, like, and by the time you get to college, like Matthew was saying, hopefully, you're grounded, and he was ready to go.

And he knew why things are set up the way they are in God's order. So, so that really leaves the anti ideas, and then the violence. And that's, those are prudential things. That's, and we're just circling back to what we said at the beginning here that this is really a wisdom issue.

And as things get worse and worse, it is going to look more and more like there aren't many options. And there may be come a time there really aren't any. But I know of people who have gone through the public school system, who have parents who help them navigate it and seem to do a pretty good job.

And it really just depended on where they were what sometimes knowing the teachers there. Sometimes the teachers are Christians, there's even places they still pray before. I mean, I'm not saying that's the norm at all.

But there are places in the United States, I do want to allow for that. Not every place is the same. So yeah, I think I think that sort of covers it. Any additional thoughts that you either you have?

Nothing on my end. I mean, I was sort of thinking about how the engineering example that David gave where oh, they'll be talking or John, was that you? Yeah, it was me. No, that was you actually. No, sorry.

I'm getting the Harris brothers mixed up. But I was thinking about the example you gave and how, oh, you'll go off to this engineering thing. But, you know, they're not going to be teaching you about, oh, this is this way, because God ordained it this way, yada, yada, yada.

And at the end of the day, like a fundamentally faithful education, while it's good to have a necessary presumption that there is a God of order, who upholds and sustains all things and allows for these things to be, I don't believe it's like necessary to explicitly like, acknowledge them in every sentence to make sure that oh, hey, this is how it works.

And you know, your education is valuable because of that. Like, you know, if I asked my wife, you know, hey, honey, can you do the dishes and I'll take the trash out, I'm not going to say, and by the way, I'm asking you to do this because you as a submissive wife should be doing this and I as a loving husband, in order to ease the burden of the smell of the house, we'll take out the trash.

Like, I don't need to like, explicitly clarify all of those things. I think that generally, you know, the Lord should be acknowledged, it should be understood that there is a God out there. But for every single class, like I don't think that a math class in order to be faithful, must acknowledge that, you know, the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of mankind, and by faith and trust in him and repentance, we're given a right to eternal life, and our sins are pardoned and forgiven.

That's great news. That's good news. Everyone should hear that. But that's not fundamental that that particular truth is not fundamental to figuring out that two plus two equals four, maybe a presuppositionalist would disagree with that.

I don't know, maybe, but I think you generally, you brought up the term,.

I wasn't going to mention presupposition. You opened it up. I'm just gonna say, I know there's a pedagogy that I've heard come out of the mouth of presuppositionalist that.

Basically says what you just said. No, that's my classical, that's my classical side coming out a little bit. You know, I'm too much of a natural law guy. But all that to say, though, you know what, when I went to Christian school, when I was in seventh grade, my math teacher, she opened every one of her classes with a devotional.

So you know what, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that was necessary for her to do so. Didn't didn't hurt you.

That is true. It did not hurt me. Yeah. Well, this has been, I think, helpful, hopefully. And I want to recognize there are parents out there in situations that are not ideal. They're single mothers, single fathers.

There's people who don't have the economic prosperity to be able to afford to pay the property taxes that are usually connected to public school. Can I speak to that really quick?

Sure. So just because and also just because I don't want people to think I'm going soft on the public school system. I moved my family across the country to make sure that my wife could stay home with our kids.