Honoring Parents

Welcome to Have You Not Read, a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification of the Saints. Before we dig into our topic, we humbly ask you to rate, review, and share the.

Podcast. Thank you. I'm Dylan Hamilton and with me are Michael Deere and Andrew Hudson, Chris Kiesler, David Kasson. Tonight we'll be discussing a question that we had sent in to us specifically about the text in Ephesians 6, 1 through 4 and how it expresses strongly that we are to honor our father and mother.

This questioner says, I would like to know how to do that in my situation. My father abandoned us and my mother used the Bible as an excuse for her neglect. I have finally come to forgive both, but they show no real repentance.

My father has popped into my life a couple of times, but always complains about how terrible he is and then disappears without a word. My mother is constantly encouraging malicious talk, faking illnesses, and worse, finding ways to try and use the Bible to justify her behavior.

I want to honor them because our God commands it, but I don't really know how. I especially don't know how to do that while guarding my heart. Any ideas on how to honor your parents who either aren't around or are hostile to your God and you?

Honoring Parents When They Are Dishonorable

Michael? I think there.

Are many brothers and sisters that have similar questions and face similar challenges. So this is a great question and of course we can definitely sympathize with the difficulties that this brother or sister has when they're thinking about wanting to honor the Lord and how do you do that needing to honor your father and mother but they're not honorable.

So let's think about a few passages in the Word that will help us. We of course have that classic passage in Ephesians chapter 6 that says, children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother which is the first commandment with promise then it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.

So there is an emphasis here from the Apostle Paul reminding his hearers of how important this commandment was, the emphasis of it, the blessing of it. The emphasis here is for children, these would be children who are in the home, that they are to obey their parents in the Lord, recognizing that even within the hierarchy in the home, which is right, that the husband is the head of the wife and the father is the head of the home, the mother and the father are the authority over their children, the children are to obey their parents and honor them.

This is to be done in the Lord. A wife's submission to her husband is as unto the Lord. The husband's leadership in the home is always in recognition of the Lord ultimately being in charge and remembering even in parenting children that we have a heavenly father.

So the proper mediation of authority in the home is always with an eye unto the Lord. Now remembering the promise. In the Old Covenant there were many instructions that emphasized that if the children would honor their father and mother as the father and mother taught them the truths of God and the ways of God, this would ensure long life in the land.

After all, if the instruction broke down between the generations, then there would be judgment and they would be pushed out of the land. We see this in the cycles of the judges, in the days of the judges where they were pushed to the hilltops and they had to leave the valleys and they lost their cities and their farmlands over and over again because even though they would return to the Lord after a time of oppression, that it didn't extend but maybe one or two generations.

And there was a promise here that it may be well with you, you may live long on the earth, a reminder of how important this commandment was and the blessing that comes with it. So when we're thinking about how children who live in a home, how do they relate to their parents when they're dishonorable?

The parents themselves aren't doing right, living right. There must be a looking unto the Lord first and foremost. I'm not going to pattern my behavior according to what I think my parents deserve, but according to the Lord who has given me to them, giving me given me life through them, given them to me and me to them.

So I'm going to honor the Lord by the way that I obey and honor them. And those are going to be challenging moments and many children have had to walk through that on a kind of a day-to-day thing, but the Lord is gracious to sustain us.

Honor Within the Home and Honor After Leaving the Home

Now a question for someone who is in their own family, they've grown up, they've left the home, they are no longer under the authority of their parents, how do we continue to honor our parents? Well not as if we belong in their household, right?

When discussing how human society works from the very beginning, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. This is the very basis for all human society.

In this we are to remember that as parents our grown children who belong to their own families are not under our authority. We used to control them and then we began to coach them and then we began to counsel them and give them advice that they didn't even ask for.

And at a certain point though, we're just a consultant and we just let them know, hey anytime you'd like to talk about any of this stuff going on and I'm praying for you and if you'd like some advice I'm available, you only have to ask and I'll make time for you because I love you.

But I'm not the one who is, you know, and unless I'm a fellow church member then I might offer you some some counsel that you weren't looking for because I am my brother's keeper and we're in this church together, so that may be a little bit different there.

But still you're thinking about the fact that my children at a certain point will no longer be under my authority and I'm no longer under my father's authority. But there still should be, shouldn't there?

There still should be some proper respect, there should be some kind of relationship there of an appropriate kind, one that acknowledges the blessing of parents and children and God's gift of the family and that would be honoring unto the Lord.

However, Jesus said that there would be some times wherein following him and being loyal to him would have to mean breaches with family members. So he says this in Matthew chapter 10. So in Matthew chapter 10 in this passage where it's, you know, discipleship 101 basically, he talks about that.

He says in verse 34 of Matthew 10, "...do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I do not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.".

It doesn't mean that Jesus is anti-family, but it's his call for us to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him. This loyalty to Christ is going to be a source of conflict because that will challenge others and whether or not their loyalty to Christ is there or not.

Are you saying that your Christian faith is more important than being in a firming relationship with me? Yes. Verse 36 says, "...a man's enemies will be those of his own household.". But Jesus reminds us, he who loves father and mother more than me is not worthy of me.

And that's, you know, that's something that you have to wrestle with and reckon with. And he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

He who finds his life will lose it. He who loses his life for my sake will find it. Now, in those situations that Jesus is addressing, it's because someone is going to be drawing a line in the sand, okay?

We're gonna have all kinds of interactions with family members as grown children. What happens if our parents say things or do things or draw lines in the sand that we can't agree with because of our loyalty to Christ?

That's sad. There's gonna be loss and there's gonna be grief from that. What happens as parents that are grown children do the same thing to us, right? All of these things are very possible and they've happened a lot.

Now, how do you continue to honor father and mother even when that happens? Well, you don't have to be disrespectful. They may call it disrespect, but you can respect someone and you can say no and you can draw, you can say, well, you've drawn a line in the sand, I agree.

And I'm gonna draw that line of sand with you and I agree that there is no unity here on this matter. You are correct. And that makes me sad, but that's the way it is. And you can do that respectfully, you can acknowledge the loss, you're gonna have to deal with the grief, but you can do so in an honorable way.

You don't have to be rude, you don't have to be arrogant, you don't have to be impatient, you can still express love, you can even hope all things. And you know, it's like, you know, even though this barrier is here, you know, I trust that it won't always be there.

Because I want you to know that I love you, I'm praying for you, for God to be at work in your life. Just know that. And to me, I think this is probably gonna be the most practical thing that we can apply, is that if we will pray for our dearly beloved family members that we are in conflict with because of Christ, okay, if we will pray for them, and if we will pray what God's will for them according to the Scriptures, that is very honorable.

God will use that to shape our affections, shape our approach, and also by doing this, we are casting our burdens upon Him because He cares for us, and we are not going to be anxiously being controlled by unnecessary shame and guilt that I'm not doing enough, calling enough, being around them enough, giving them enough presence, and so on and so forth.

Like, you know, you're not accountable to the demands and expectations of those who have split with you over Christ, right? Remember that Jesus says, take up your cross. There's things that you can die, there are things that you die to that are painful for you, but there are also things that you die to that are restful for you, because you have one Master, Christ, not 200.

Prayer, Sovereignty, and Family Intercession

I'm.

Glad you mentioned that about praying. Dave, why don't you share how you guys and your family pray for close and extended family members? Well, this.

Was something that my wife had suggested a couple of years ago, and we've continued it. I'm really appreciative of it, especially when I'm out of town, depending on when I call, or if I'm home, it depends on the day of the week, but we have a family member that we pray for.

We have members of our family that are brothers and sisters in Christ, and we have members of our family that openly reject, and we love them, so we do that each week. Like, on Fridays, it happens to be my brother and his wife and mother-in-law and our adopted grandmother Ruth, who was here for graduation.

Sweet, sweet lady, wonderful lady, and we pray for my dad and his wife Connie on Saturdays. So it's an opportunity for us to intercede for them, you know, intercede on their behalf, and it is an acknowledgement that their salvation is not in our hands, it's not up to us.

It puts it squarely in the sovereignty of God, and that sovereign God commands us to pray for others and to intercede for others, and it is God who opens up the heart, but how will they hear unless there is a preacher?

We have to be sent, and we have to spread the seed, and we do have to evangelize, we do have to pray, but it is a reminder that ultimately it's in His hands. God gives the increase. Yes, sir.

So when we think about how to relate to our parents, and of course we recognize this creational family is good, that God has designed for husband and wife to be fruitful, multiply, to bear children. This is pleasing to God that those made in His image would engage in this as the norm.

We can still please God if we don't get married and have children, there are ways to do that, and it's okay that that's not the normal. That's okay. But in the norm, I've noticed that everybody has parents.

So even if you don't grow up to have your own family, you have parents, and relating to them is never without challenges. Even the best parents, there's going to be challenges and some difficulties there, and so thinking through these things helps us.

For example, how am I going to get along with my parents throughout the seasons? And seasons will change, and there'll be different challenges in different seasons. How do I relate to my parents and get along with them?

Well, if things are fairly on the good side of matters, you're still thinking about Christ. You're still thinking about how to honor them in the Lord, thinking about how to love them in the Lord, thinking about how to forgive them when they wrong you, how to seek peace in the Lord, and so forth.

If things are very bad, and there's opposition because of Christ, your attention is still upon the Lord, because you're thinking about, what does He want me to do in this situation? What would be the most righteous, true, good, loving thing to do?

And it sometimes is not discovering, what are all these expectations that you have of me that I'm not meeting, and I'm gonna have to jump through all these hoops so you'll stop complaining about me. It's probably not the best thing to do.

It is a surprising thing at certain levels. Sometimes grown children discover that there's a great deal of immaturity and sin in their parents. Now what? Well, guess what? There's a lot of immaturity and sin in us as well.

A lot of times that can come out in interactions, but my hope is forgiveness and cleansing in Christ. I want that to be true for them as well. Can we have a table of unity wherein Christ is being glorified?

Can we meet here? And if we can't, and things are very strained or even separated because of it. I can still pray, I can still reflect on God's goodness, I can still be thankful to God for my parents even if we are estranged.

I can still pray for their good. I can still look at the promises of God and ask according to the will of God good things for my parents that God will turn things around in their life. And it doesn't mean that honoring your parents doesn't mean that you have to find ways to make them happy.

That's not your job. That's not your job. They're made in God's image and they're gonna be restless until they rest in Him. And they're never going... if they're looking to you because they want to get some sort of signal from you that they're good enough parents.

If they're looking to you to provide them with enough esteem that yes, my life has meaning as they grow older and they wonder if their life is counted for anything. And they're looking to you or to your children, I mean their grandchildren, to provide this meaning for them and they're trying to latch on to all of this.

None of us are strong enough to do that for our parents. We are all bruised reeds. They need to be resting in Christ and finding their sense of righteousness in Christ. Their stability in Christ, not us.

And you've got to help them with that in a variety of ways. Now I will say this, the way that I may speak to a peer of mine, a brother in Christ who needs to be rebuked, it's not the way I'm gonna speak to my father, okay?

That's called wisdom, okay? And there are... you are gonna interact in ways that are somewhat different. But you might say, well, they may say things about me that I'm a bad child or that I, you know, I'm the reason why they've turned away from Christ.

And well, yes, people will say all kinds of things. But you're not to shape your life based around the words of people who are hurting, right? When you hear stuff like that, those are those are symptoms like, ah, I hear someone's hurting.

I need to pray for them. They need help, don't they? They need to be blessed. And it's hard to do that when it's your parents because it's so emotionally connected. But we have to remember to die to self, to be crucified with Christ.

And we have promises. Jesus said, you know, anyone who has given up family members for him receive a hundredfold in his kingdom, right? You may have estranged or isolated relationships with people you grew up knowing and loving because of Christ, but you have received a hundredfold in family.

When Jesus' disciples told him one day, hey, your brothers and your mother are here. Well, who are my brothers and sisters and my mother, right? Who is my immediate family? This is interesting. There is a creational family, right?

There is a true, we could call it, you'd say biological family. But who is the Christians immediate family? Interesting question. It seems to me that Jesus begins to shift some of that expectation, right?

Who are we to think of as our immediate family? Who is going to be closest to us, right? Of course, there's still... Jesus is by no means diminishing the responsibility of parents to raise their children and to bring them up to know that Christ is King and to bow the knee to Jesus and to know how the world really works.

He's not diminishing that in the least. And he is far more pro-marriage than anyone I've ever met. You look at how he talked about marriage. So he is not diminishing at all the responsibilities in family life.

But also he is saying something about where are we to be looking for those types of relationships. When we're unified in him, we are brought together in him, we are a brotherhood among families and we may lose relationships.

But how much do we gain in Christ? Yes, there's genuine grief. Yes, there's genuine loss. Jesus is not saying it won't be hard. He talks about it in terms of crucifixion. So he knows it's... he saying it's hard, it's difficult.

But there are so many blessings in a life together as the saints, as brothers and sisters in Christ. Which is why the way that we think about and have and do local church is very, very important. It.

Honor, Role, and the Loss of Cultural Rites of Passage

Sounds like you're saying that there are some times we honor our parents by not continuing to fight with them. Well, yes. But see, they're made in the image of God.

And when you accord them full responsibility before the face of God, you're treating them, you know, as truly accountable and responsible. Yeah. And you don't have to be mad about it or bitter about it.

But look, I can give you what you want. Right. I can give you what you need. There's that.

Additional pressure in family relationships. There is. There's a Mark 6 4. It says, but Jesus said to them, a prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, in his own house.

And I think in the relationship between parents and children, if the parents were not the leaders that they were supposed to be, the prophet that did not teach the children and the child, you were supposed to be that for me.

And so there's a temptation not to afford them honor. And then the reverse. Okay, I'm trying to be a godly son and daughter and I'm coming to my parent and the parent says, well, I know you, I raised you, I know what you're like.

And so there's a resistance to hearing anything from the child. And so going into it, knowing if you're a follower of Christ, knowing that honor is not always earned, there are positions that are deserving of honor, but that doesn't mean carte blanche, you know, there are lines to be had there, but there can be grace in that, knowing that it's difficult sometimes with those family ties.

So we give honor to whom honor is due. Now there is honor due any father at some level, but that doesn't mean that you give all honor, right? Because if it's not due, then what are you doing? You're lying.

And it's interesting when we think about the particular ways in which we interact with our, our parents, it's true is sense in which there can be a, you know, familiarity breeds contempt is the old saying.

And there's a sense in which, you know, children don't want to hear anything from their parents because they remember all the, all the mistakes and all the things that went south and sideways. And then the parents don't want to hear anything from their kids because it's like, you know, you remember that time when you're like, dad, I was 10 years old, you know?

Yeah. It's called the powdered butt syndrome. Like if you, it's difficult for you to take someone seriously when you've changed their diapers and powdered their behind. You know, you, it's, I remember my, my dad at one point I was, gosh, I was in my forties.

I have Elizabeth and Amy with me and I'm getting them out to the airport at this point. I've traveled around the world. I've led people into combat. I've brought them back safely. I haven't come back with, you know, more holes in me than I left with, you know, so I felt like I had arrived and my dad pulls me aside and says, Hey son, um, do you have enough cash for the trip back?

I'm like, yeah, but if you're handing out money, I'll take it. Sure. You know, but it was just, he was just being dad. He was just being dad and it didn't matter how old I was. He'll, he'll always kind of see.

Me that way. Yeah. Now I will say for best case scenario, best case scenario for parents and children, what we're wanting to cultivate, obviously we have, if we've had negative experiences with our parents and so on, so how do we set things up for the future?

How do we put things into play that are wise and thinking, you know, the better generations ahead is going to be that as parents at certain, at a certain point in time, we are going to need to begin to intentionally practice humility with an idea that one day our children are going to be the one powdering our behinds.

And am I going to insist on my children remaining in orbit around me when they have grown lives and I'm older and they're moving on and they're full of vim and vigor and exciting things and I'm kind of left behind in an empty nest situation?

Am I going to be, well, they, they used to be all in orbit around me. It was this glorious heyday and I was at the center of their lives and now look at them. They all just, that's the way it's supposed to be.

It's their time now. And if I'm going to be insistent that I remain the center of their attention and you should cater to me, you know, that's, that's very prideful and that's going to cause all manner of friction in the relationship.

I need to be humbling myself before I think I need to, don't we all? But getting ready for the moment where they're going to be in the limelight and I'm going to be in orbit around them. Again, I'm not the, I'm not in control.

I'm not the coach. I'm not even the counselor. I'm just the consultant around. You can find me in the rocking chair over there in the corner. I'm not the center and that's okay. At some point I'm going to be there and if the Lord lets me live that long.

How much of this is we've forgotten.

How to honor at all? I'm Heather and I've been discussing, they had prom recently. Heather and I have been discussing things like rites of passage, honoring, yes. And honoring young men, young women, honoring older men, older women through certain passages in life.

And it's depicted as something that seems very wooden, but if you read people's accounts of some of these things like balls or read some accounts of rites of passage for young men, it was more jovial and less wooden.

And it had in mind a very specific time period in someone's life when they either became a man, became a woman, became a father, became a husband, became a wife at weddings anymore. Heather and I have shot a few together.

We thank the Lord that many times that we've been at them, the Lord has been honored. But rarely do we see a honoring of the man who's just become a husband or the woman who's just become a wife. And being told what a heavy new responsibility this is, a heavy new place of honor.

Because naturally, like we said earlier, marriage is you're going to become parents. That's the normative, right? So you are going to have honor come to you now. And I'm just wondering at all these things that should have been rites of passage for all of us, how many times have you guys seen people honored going into new phases of life?

I remember a few times as a kid passing, most of the time it was in athletics, passing from one step to the next. And now you're told, congratulations, you now have loads more responsibility, but you're made for it.

We don't have loads of that. And I know we're talking specifically about parents in this, but this is something that has to be practiced like kind of all the way up. And your parents, parents should be teaching children how to honor, how to dispose honor, I would think, by saying, hey, you now have new responsibilities.

You have this weight now added to you. And this is like a, I don't know, it seems like this is something we don't know how to do anymore.

Culturally. Sure. So like the household is not like a child-centered place. That's the first start, right? Like we're not centered around children in the household, just like we're not centered around mom and dad in the household, but rather we're centered around Christ.

Right. So you have to start with the The Lord. The Lord. What is the basis for all of these stations in life that we find ourselves?

Yeah. So in the way we should posit it is the Lord has now brought you up to this.

Right. Like, so as a husband, now it's all up to you and it's whatever you say goes. Well, now that you're a husband, how are you to be husbanding?

Right. That makes me, we talk about the Lord being high and lifted up. I think the higher that he's lifted up, everything else rises with it. And because he's not high and lifted up in our culture, things become debased.

There's no honor or glory. It departs. But in the kingdom, as he's high and lifted up, you see that stuff being restored and

Well, you would think it would be restored, but there's a lot of Christian households that still don't understand this concept culturally of showing honor at these different stages of life. It's like, it's a forgotten art that we've kind of pulled away from.

So I mean, even like, we just don't think in those terms anymore. And I'm wondering how much of that has to play into.

This as well. Sure. So some of the scenarios, there was another brother who was talking about this, and this could go to that idea, that once you do depart from your father and mother's household, it's your household now, if you're the husband, right?

So when my father or mother comes into my household as my guest, they don't get to say what I'm doing in my household, right? Maybe the ground rules are, like, we're believers, we're subjects of the king.

While you're here, you're going to be doing what we do in this household. So if someone comes in and says, stop being a light, put this bushel over top of it, or stop being salt, become bland. Like, no, you don't get to tell us that you can, I'm sorry you misunderstand what your station is as a guest in my home.

I'm going to honor you by telling you the truth about who Christ is, and we're going to live like that as loyal subjects.

Of the king. So I think, Dylan, some of what you're pointing to, and this is a problem that's widespread, especially where Christ is not lifted up high enough, is that folks in general may demand honor because of how they function, but they have no sense of their role.

So I remember hearing more than once some young person being very rude to authority figures, you know, you can't tell me what to do, I'm an adult. You know, all 19 years old and, you know, three kids from two different guys.

I've born children, I'm a parent, I'm an adult, you can't tell me what to do. This is an extreme example, but still, just because you... It's not that extreme. Well, this is happening all the time. But hey, because I can function this way, you should respect me and I should have authority because I can function in these ways, but they're functioning,.

But they have no idea what their role is. But they're also honored in the broader culture, like single moms with that much... Like, I'm serious, like this is something that is lifted up. It's the Madonna of our age, right?

Yes, yeah. It's like a complete distortion and upending of what should be honored culturally in public. And that's why I'm saying, like, we had these public displays of honor, and now the public displays of honor are the actual opposite.

Or the criminal,.

The criminal that's then lifted up as the saint. So in the idea of materialism and the stripping away the demythologizing of all things, which is a myth in and of itself, but you have honoring of functionality rather than the honor being attached to the role.

So a father is now thought of in terms of biology rather than theology, right? And there's a huge difference in that. And so people today like, well, you should give me all manner of respect and honor just simply because I have biologically succeeded in fathering children.

Well, there's a sense in which, of course, I do want to honor you as somebody who was made in the image of God, and indeed, you are my biological father. However, that's, I mean, when you think about what the honor is to be given as unto the Lord, there's a role that the father is to live out, that has responsibilities, that has a glory to it, that's not about just functioning in certain ways.

And so also with the wife, so also with parents and with children and so on. So the roles have been forgotten about and all that's left is the function. And because it's just function, well, how do you function?

I function the way I function, you function the way you function. Well, let's just honor all kinds of functionality and don't dare you impose any standards on my functionality, standards that might talk about there being roles for women and men, right?

So there's a lot of dishonorable things happening and we see that there's a lot of demand, not earning of honor, but a lot of demand for honor all over the place. And it's like, well, I do want to love my, you know, if you have parents that are against the Lord, you have parents that are sinning egregiously and they think that honoring them means that you affirm them with whatever they say, however they say it, whatever they do, whenever they do it, if they think that's what honor is, it's not.

And even if you're unable to explain what real honor is and the truth of the scripture to them because they changed too many diapers for you and they're not going to listen to you, that's okay. You can still honor them even if they don't receive it.

You know, your honoring of them, the success of that is in God's eyes, not whether or not it seems effective in your relationship with them.

And that needs to be remembered. Returning to the theme that you were talking about, like, if you were defining father, brother, mother, I'm going to return to 1 Corinthians chapter 5. I'll start in verse 9.

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators, yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world or with the covetousness or extortioners or with idolaters, for then ye must needs to go out of the world.

But now I've written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother, so we get a brother, a brother in Christ, if he be a fornicator or covetous or an idolater or a railer or drunkard or an extortioner with such a one, do not eat.

For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within, but them that are without God judgeth, right? So there are scenarios which we are to honor Christ and if a brother is claiming to be such as another one who has joined with us honoring Christ but dishonoring him in such a manner as to do these despicable things in which for some brothers they may be your father, they may be your father-in-law.

Well, what you're to do is to not even eat with such a one if they claim that name of brother. But sometimes you won't necessarily know if they're in this category because some of these are not necessarily apparent if you're not in deep connection with them.

I have a scenario with my father-in-law. I know for sure that he's in this category. Well, to honor him would be to say, okay, well, if you're saying you're a brother, I'm going to honor that. I'm not eating with you.

And when we talk about it, because it's going to come up, it's going to be hurtful because there's grandchildren who would love to see you and have a meal with you. It's just not going to happen. We're going to talk about this and we're going to talk about why you think I should not do this.

So there will be many examples like that. And of course, you're thinking through how to honor Christ and believing what your father-in-law is saying to you that he indeed is a Christian while also living in these types of sin.

And the proper thing to do is to follow through on the severe mercy being described here to say, you need to understand how unfitting this is. And if in God's providence the deprivation of a fellowship with your daughter and grandchildren leads you to recognize your need for repentance, praise be to God.